Mini 413 - Famous CATS - Over! Quit pussyfooting around!

[DrippingGoofball]

Z'it influences the gift, but I don't know in what way. I was toying with the hypothesis that the number of failures might mean something, or give a bad gift as opposed to a good gift, but then I have no idea how this could possibly work, and then, I couldn't control it, so... I guess I'll have to find out at endgame.

[Glork]

Then why did you say this earlier?

DGB have you lost any more dreams following post 338?

Zno, that's not how it works. It reduces the number of player choices I have.

And why did you still send three choices last night?

It would seem that DrippingGoofball is lying about her role, changing her story, and backtracking.

[Glork]

And yes, I deliberately asked a question I knew the answer to, because I wanted to see if I could catch DGB in a flat-out lie. Apparently she couldn't be bothered to read over her own posts, whereas I most certainly can.

[Nai]

1) Are you honestly saying its more likely given the power level of the claimed town that the scum are completely toothless? Yes my theory relies on the scum having some kind of power, but you do realize that this setup would be HORRIBLY UNBALANCED AND NEVER WOULD HAVE PASSED ANY REVIEW IF THE SCUM DIDNT HAVE SUCH ANY POWER BECAUSE THEY WOULD BE COMPLETELY WIPED OUT BY THE TOWN?

Stop using the 'this couldn't pass review' excuse! It doesn't NEED to pass review, first of all. I've had games just done without review. Don't ask like a review is end-all be-all.

No, I already said, I don't think that they're toothless. But I don't think that they're as powerful as you claim.

I was NOT contesting Miztef's claim of innocent result on Glork but the TIMING of the claim. IF YOU ARE A ONE SHOT COP YOU HAVE ABSOLUTELY ZERO FUCKING INCENTIVE TO WAIT TO GIVE OUT YOUR INFORMATION BECAUSE THERE IS NO POINT!! IT IS A ONE SHOT ABILITY ITS NOT LIKE YOU NEED OT HIDE FROM THE SCUM IN CASE THEY SHOOT YOU TO PREVENT A FURTHER INVESTIGATION!!! HE SHOULD HAVE CLAIMED FIRST THING IN THE MORNING RIGHT AWAY. INSTEAD HE CLAIMS THIS INVESTIGATION RIGHT AFTER ALL HELL BREAKS LOSE AND GLORK COMES UNDER MASSIVE ATTACK.

It was his first post of the day. Are you saying he was lurking for no reason?

I know this to be true BECAUSE MY ROLE PM SAYS I AM PROTOWN AND THE ONLY REASON GLORK WOULD GO AFTER ME LIKE THIS IS IF HE WAS SCUM AND HAD SOME WAY TO COVER HIS ASS AND FORCE A WIN AFTER THE MISLYNCH I ALREADY !@#$ING EXPLAINED IT READ MY !@#$ING POST.

This whole section relies on me believing you are protown. If I don't believe you, there's no point in you continuing to say "My role PM says I'm protown." I have no way of checking to see what your PM says, so there's no point continuing to say it. It means nothing to me. Sto using it.

OCCAMS RAZOR? HAVE YOU SEEN THE GAME SETUP THATS BEEN REVEALED SO FAR? DOES ANYTHIGN ABOUT THIS GAME SEEM SIMPLE TO YOU ? ARE YOU !@#$ING KIDDING ME!?!?

The game doesn't need to be simple for Occam's Razor to apply. The principle applies to the SOLUTION, not to the problem.

Miztef could confirm Buddy

Unles I'm missing something, Miztef could NOT confirm Buddy. He wanted buddy to DIE. That's not the action of a mason group. Get your facts straight.

And Primate knows he needs money and chances are whoever is giving him money aint scum cuz a acartoon having money makes no sense and a scum would not give money to a protown role in the first bloody place so that's 7.

There's no way for Primate to know that Massive is town. There's no way for Massive to know that Primate is town. Primate only knew that the person he was sending messages to (remember, he didn't even know it was massive, just an investor) had money, and Massive only knew he was answering someone. Read the day, get the facts, and stop making it up.

How are they NOT that powerful? here's a hypothetical situation: they all claim day 1

As Glork said: Would you really believe all that claimed day 1? I think not.

i want ot honestly kick you

did you even read my post?

DONT !@#$ING TELL ME THAT I NEED RANDOM THINGS TO HAPPEN

WHAT I ACTUALLY NEED IS ONE THING TO BE TRUE

THE SETUP IS BALANCED

THAT IS THE ONLY THING I NEED TO BE TRUE

No, you need the game to be even for YOU. Right now, I don't need your ideal game. It can be setup whatever the way it is. Stop gaming the mod.

GIVEN THAT THIS WAS MADE BY A HUMAN BEING AND ALSO REVIEWED AND PASSED BY ANOTHER HUMAN BEING I HONESTLY DONT !@#$ING KNOW HOW THE !@#$ YOU CAN DECIDE TO SAY THAT THE SETUP BEING BALANCED IS A "RANDOM THING"

How do you know that it was reviewed? And what does that matter?

3 Masons in Thesp/Miztef/Buddy
2 Masons in Carbon/Zind
2 Masons in Primate/Massive.

Again: Miztef wanted Buddy dead, so that's not a mason.
Carbon/Zind is a mason, yes.
Primate and Massive didn't know who they were. Primate actually said this. Massive confirmed this. Stop using false facts.

GIVE ME ONE WAY THEY COULD POSSIBLY AVOID LOSING WITHOUT HAVING SOME TYPE OF INCREDIBLE POWER THAT YOU ARE DENYING THAT THEY WOULD HAVE.

As previously said. No mason group would believe any other mason group were real. But, as also previously said, there is only one mason group. No one would believe a full mass claim without proving each and every role, so the scum just have to sow the seeds of distrust and they win. Think about humans, since you're using human nature as a defense.

If it isn't a BALANCED SETUP then it ISNT THE SETUP WE ARE PLAYING WITH BECAUSE IT WOULD NOT HAVE PASSED SETUP REVIEW

False dicotomy. It could have been unreviewed. It could be a slightly unbalanced. Roles that we know could have disadvantages that aren't revealed so scum can't take advantage of them. THINK, Pooky, instead of making up conspiracies.

@Theopor: Your claim checks out, though I'm not sure how surviving a cannon ball or killing rats equates to killing cats.

Z'what sets you apart, Glork, is that you were inconsistent with your claim throughout, and you kept changing it, adding to it, backtracking, publishing errata, admitting to half-truths... hey, forgive me for thinking you're scum after all that.

And frankly, if that's not scummy, it's impossible for anyone to be scummy.

Or he wasn't revealing the whole thing so he didn't get lynched. Maybe?

And yes, I deliberately asked a question I knew the answer to, because I wanted to see if I could catch DGB in a flat-out lie. Apparently she couldn't be bothered to read over her own posts, whereas I most certainly can.

KNEW you were doing this. I was hoping to say I found her lie, too, but... You said it first.

[DrippingGoofball]

It would seem that DrippingGoofball is lying about her role, changing her story, and backtracking.

ZNO, I just bothered reading my PM!!!

[Glork]

It was his first post of the day. Are you saying he was lurking for no reason?

Not only that, but Miztef's post came less than 24 hours after the mod's post. Are you saying that it's unreasonable to conclude that Miztef was not on-site between the start of day and the timing of his post?




*high fives Nai*

We've got this one all but wrapped up.

[theopor_COD]

Nai. It's no more bizarre than Skruffs supposed Blind Joat - from Star Trek. The cat's a killer who looks after his own.

DGB is spouting bullshit and has been caught with pants round her ankles - the fact she's tied herself so close to Pooky baffles me somewhat as I cannot see the scum being that obvious but that's WIFOM I guess. I'm content to lynch one of Pooky/DGB and vig the other tonight.

[Glork]

It would seem that DrippingGoofball is lying about her role, changing her story, and backtracking.

ZNO, I just bothered reading my PM!!!

I don't understand what you are trying to say.


Earlier, you stated matter-of-factly the results of failing your claimed PR.
Just now, you stated that you had no idea what effect failing your restriction would have on your ability.

Please explain the large discrepancy between these two statements.

[Glork]

Also... ripped from the lolcats thread:

[Skruffs]

already addressed but:
3 Masons in Thesp/Miztef/Buddy
Wrong: 2 Masons + knowledge of that name
2 Masons in Carbon/Zind
Wrong: 1 player, two roles.
2 Masons in Primate/Massive.
Wrong: Primate asks for money, Massive accepts or denies
Message from Glork that gives 1 innocent.
Wrong: 2 innocents, 1 scum.


The theory was just a theory, and a very shaky one at that.

I'm from STar Trek, Next Generations. Just for hte records. For some reason that makes me smile. Also for the record, I have 10 options I can do, so, I have the feeling it's not normal joat stuff. 10 numebrs, I choose a target and a number. Theo hasn't apparently received anything from me.

There definitely is a redirecter, or Phoebus was a reflecter.

Maybe DGB's targetting thing is actually the reverse, she targets people Other than who she targets.

[Nai]

Okay, I just got information from the Mod that I wasn't given initially. Before I reveal this information, I have to reveal my role, because this information DOES help us a little bit.

I am Lewis the Cat, a feline from Connecticut. Flavorwise, I supposedly attacked people in my neighborhood and was put under eternal house arrest.

Now, for the role bits. My lynch-count is so low because I'm on probation from the law. So it doesn't take much to take me out.

Due to my fierce nature, I am able to vig someone if I so choose. As well, because I'm well known to be a badass, I may also interrogate a person and get info from them. Now, my role PM says that I am just a 'cop', but, from the PM I just received from the mod, it seems I am a ROLE cop, not just a normal cop.

In addition, both of these abilities have drawbacks, which I am not posting here. If another event happens (which I am ALSO not revealing), my vote-to-kill count can also go down by one vote each night, to a minimum of a single vote killing me.

Due to my restrictions, I did not do any action last night. I was afraid I would have hit one of my restrictions and screwed myself.

Night 0 (before day 1), Timmy did nothing. However, night 1 (after day 1) Timmy did both of my actions. It was he that vigged Thesp (or, at least, made the attempt). He also investigated Primate, and got the Little Nicky response. This is why I believe I'm a ROLE cop, not a normal cop. It is unfortunate that he wasn't around at all yesterday. We could have skipped killing Primate.

With this knowledge, we know that Skruffs was not the one that killed Thesp. Theo was ALSO not the one that killed Thesp. I'm lead to believe one of them is lying, and I would point a finger at Theo first.

As I said, I got this information today, not when I replaced. It furthers my belief that Theo is scum, and I still believe that Dripping Goofball is scum with him. I'm on the fence about Pooky.

[Glork]

...you're on the fence Re: Pooky in spite of the fact that I have claimed a guilty result on him, with an innocent result on a dead innocent (Thesp)?

[theopor_COD]

I've never claimed to have killed Thesp - Skruffs I think claimed to have killed/targeted Pheobus. Are you implying the mafia killed no-one??? Because if you are that doesn't look too healthily on Skruffs/Dp does it? The fact Glork has an innocent on Skruffs leads me to believe he is likely to be a Godfather with some kind of super ability. I can't quite believe the town is this powerful and with so many one-shot abilities.

The fact we have so many supposed cops, masons around and now you pretty much claim a similar role to Skruffs, a role-cop and vig - I'm flabbergasted frankly.


To finish -

DGB - Inventor. I'm pretty convinced she's scum
Glork - Message Sender and Cop
Skruffs - Blind JOAT - supposedly 10 actions
Theo - Vig
Nai - Role Cop and Vig
Miztef - One shot Cop - knows Thesp or something and knows Pheobus is bad
Pooky - Replacer
Massive - Had loads of cash. Could give cash to Primate.
Primate - Could receive extra lives
CC - Mason with Zindy
Zindy - Mason with CC
Thesp -
Pheobus - Independent on some kind.

Insane.

[Nai]

I'm on the fence about Skruffs as well.

Ick. I read too many posts too fast, and forgot who targetted who. I was sure someone was claiming responsibility for Thesp. Wasn't there a thought on a cross-target kill that mixed up DG and Theo after this exchange?

You're naive if you think anyone other than a vig is going to take away a life, and if we had a vig, it would have happened

last

night.

Thing is you should have lost a life, infact I'm not sure why you didn't.

interesting, why do you say this? When should he have lost a life?

Why because I targeted him last night to test his claim therefore he should have lost a life last night, unless he was protected or roles were somehow swapped by a bus driver kinda character or he's lieing out of his teeth and has actually lost a life.

I'd be willing to test Skruffs right now.

[Nai]

EBWODP: Remember, my drawbacks make me severely limited in my abilities, and one of them can completely screw me.

[theopor_COD]

I targeted Primate that's correct and still to this page have no real idea why he didn't lose one of his lives. It may be possible that I'm completely inept and fire blanks dunno or somehow a load of people targeted the same person or someone is bulletproof is that possible - seems unlikely if Primate's got so many lives. There doesn't seem to be anyone claiming to be a bus driver so in all honesty I've got no idea what happened. Timmy was able to kill and investigate the same time yeh?

[Nai]

Yes. It is possible. But, again, the restrictions are VERY difficult to get past. A single thing happening in a day ruins one, and something happening at night ruins the other.

[theopor_COD]

You can kill during the day?

[Nai]

No, I meant that the restriction for one can happen during the day and stop me from being able to do it at night. The other can happen at night and will nix my action, as if I was roleblocked.

[Primate]

that's what I was looking for, Nai. A cat came up to me in a dark alley n1, asked me my role then ran off.

[Nai]

Then that explains it. Sorry, mod hadn't given me the info.

[Primate]

I targeted Primate that's correct and still to this page have no real idea why he didn't lose one of his lives. It may be possible that I'm completely inept and fire blanks dunno or somehow a load of people targeted the same person or someone is bulletproof is that possible - seems unlikely if Primate's got so many lives. There doesn't seem to be anyone claiming to be a bus driver so in all honesty I've got no idea what happened. Timmy was able to kill and investigate the same time yeh?

I'm just wondering if it's as simple as you being roleblocked.

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

Wow

I don't think I've ever been more angry except for maybe MAD Mafia.

It's the exact same town goes crazy lynches pooky despite MASSIVE LOGICAL DEFICIENCIES IN THE LYNCH and then loses thing happening all over again.

Stop using the 'this couldn't pass review' excuse! It doesn't NEED to pass review, first of all. I've had games just done without review. Don't ask like a review is end-all be-all.

No, I already said, I don't think that they're toothless. But I don't think that they're as powerful as you claim.

Ok then point me to a SINGLE THEMED MINI GAME(on this site) WHERE TOWN CAN AUTOWIN AFTER A MASSCLAIM ON DAY ONE.

It's not RANDOM to assume that the setup IS BALANCED IN THE SENSE THAT THE SCUM AREN'T COMPLETELY WIPED OUT BY A MASSCLAIM.

It was his first post of the day. Are you saying he was lurking for no reason?

Yes, it absolutely reeks of scum waiting to see which way the wind would turn before making his move. If he actually did make such an investigation why didn't he vote me on his first post?

This whole section relies on me believing you are protown. If I don't believe you, there's no point in you continuing to say "My role PM says I'm protown." I have no way of checking to see what your PM says, so there's no point continuing to say it. It means nothing to me. Sto using it

YOU ARE THE ONE WHO ASKED ME HOW I KNEW. I !@@#$ING ANSWERED YOU QUESTION. DONT TELL ME TO STOP USING SOMETHING WHEN THE ONLY REASON I DID WAS BECAUSE YOU !@#$ING ASKED ME HOW I KNEW.

The game doesn't need to be simple for Occam's Razor to apply. The principle applies to the SOLUTION, not to the problem.

Except the Solution would also directly indicate that this game is something that is imbalanced against the scum completely and which never would've passed a review which then indicates that it couldn't possibly be the setup we are playing so that's a contradiction.

Unles I'm missing something, Miztef could NOT confirm Buddy. He wanted buddy to DIE. That's not the action of a mason group. Get your facts straight.

Wow, you honestly don't get basic strategy 101? MIZTEF KNEW "BUDDY" WAS IN THE GAME, MIZTEF KNEW BUDDY ISN"T A CARTOON CAT BUT A REAL DOG. THUS MIZTEF KNOWS BUDDY=/=SCUM AND ALL MIZTEF HAS TO DO TO "MASON" BUDDY IS TO SAY "HEY I KNOW BUDDY IS IN THE GAME AND PROTOWN CAN SOMEONE CLAIM HIM PLEASE, if scum claim buddy they get counterclaimed and lynched so they get buddy in the masonry"

OR EVEN MORE ADVANCED STRATEGY MIZTEF COULD SAY "I KNOW THERE IS A REAL DOG IN THE GAME AND THAT HE IS INNOCENT THAT DOG SHOULD CLAIM TO FORM AN OPEN MASONRY WITH ME THEN BUDDY CLAIMS AND CLAIMS HIS NAME SO MIZTEF CONFIRMS THE NAME AND THEN WHAMMO a 3 way masonry is formed.

I'm using Masonry very losely right now as a term that means "2 or more people who can confirm the innocence of each other"

when I said 7 players were masoned I mean these 7 "players" have the ability to confirm each others innocence which menas that the guilt of one would implicate hte other directly.

Scum can't afford to come out like this because to fake claim mason means that getting caught = 2 scum dead.

With 7 out of 13 "players" confirming each other. It would be absolutely clockwork to simply lynch everyone who isnt a mason while a cop scans everybody else.

There's no way for Primate to know that Massive is town. There's no way for Massive to know that Primate is town. Primate only knew that the person he was sending messages to (remember, he didn't even know it was massive, just an investor) had money, and Massive only knew he was answering someone. Read the day, get the facts, and stop making it up.

I have read the day. I have put a massive amount of thought into this game, probably more than anyone else, if you don't understand something I've said, trying thinking about it a little more. Yes Primate doesn't know if Massive is scum or not according to his role, but given that there are cats who have inherited large fortunes and a cartoon cat isn't "rich" because it isn''t "real" and thus can't have "real" money it isn't a stretch to say that he knows his investor is indeed rich up the ass and actually real. He can ID massive simply by openly claiming in the thread and confirm at night, scum can't fake it because they'd totally screw up in the night exchange.

As Glork said: Would you really believe all that claimed day 1? I think not.

No I wouldnt but I sure would get the cop to investigate them one by one while sweeping the rest of the town with lynches. and that sir is GG scum.

Tell me how you would defend against such a massclaim followed up by a lynching the minority along with a one by one investigation of the masons which will clear them in 3 days in worst case scenario and 2 days if the cop had investigated any one of the 7 in the first day 0

[Nai]

Yes, it absolutely reeks of scum waiting to see which way the wind would turn before making his move. If he actually did make such an investigation why didn't he vote me on his first post?

Let's think about this. The day started on 9:14 am on June 22nd. His post was at 6:22 am on June 23rd. The 22nd was a friday. The 23rd was a saturday. I think this pretty much shows that you're full of it.

As for why he didn't vote, I have no idea.

YOU ARE THE ONE WHO ASKED ME HOW I KNEW. I !@@#$ING ANSWERED YOU QUESTION. DONT TELL ME TO STOP USING SOMETHING WHEN THE ONLY REASON I DID WAS BECAUSE YOU !@#$ING ASKED ME HOW I KNEW.

You knowing you are protown has NOTHING to do with you knowing Glork is lying, you knowing about this whole plan, etc. etc. What I'm beginning to suspect is the plan you outlined is YOUR plan, and you're letting it out just so you can catch the town off guard.

Except the Solution would also directly indicate that this game is something that is imbalanced against the scum completely and which never would've passed a review which then indicates that it couldn't possibly be the setup we are playing so that's a contradiction.

Stop bringing up game balance.

Glork being scum has NOTHING to do with game balance. Somehow, I think you're a scum replacer. That deals with balance just fine, and also would fit how I see you playing right now.

Wow, you honestly don't get basic strategy 101? MIZTEF KNEW "BUDDY" WAS IN THE GAME, MIZTEF KNEW BUDDY ISN"T A CARTOON CAT BUT A REAL DOG. THUS MIZTEF KNOWS BUDDY=/=SCUM AND ALL MIZTEF HAS TO DO TO "MASON" BUDDY IS TO SAY "HEY I KNOW BUDDY IS IN THE GAME AND PROTOWN CAN SOMEONE CLAIM HIM PLEASE, if scum claim buddy they get counterclaimed and lynched so they get buddy in the masonry"

Oh, c'mon. This is a game between cats. Someone says they know there's a dog in this game and no one will believe them. Or they'd believe they are independant. Stop making stuff up.

And how, exactly, would Miztef 'know' that Buddy is innocent? We're talking about real cats. Why would ANYONE think a dog is on the same side as a cat?

With 7 out of 13 "players" confirming each other. It would be absolutely clockwork to simply lynch everyone who isnt a mason while a cop scans everybody else.

You keep on missing what we're saying. Who in their right mind would believe seven people coming out and claiming mason? The only way to prove a mason group is to lynch one and see if he's scum. If he isn't, the group is real. The town would be lynching masons to check. That's 3 lynches, which means scum get 3 free kills. Think about it, and stop flapping your lips.

I have read the day. I have put a massive amount of thought into this game, probably more than anyone else, if you don't understand something I've said, trying thinking about it a little more.

For your massive amount of thought, you come up with a lot of random stuff. Solidify your argument first. If you had a solid argument, it wouldn't be this easy to find so much wrong with it.

Yes Primate doesn't know if Massive is scum or not according to his role, but given that there are cats who have inherited large fortunes and a cartoon cat isn't "rich" because it isn''t "real" and thus can't have "real" money

Okay, you are reading WAY too much into this. IF they weren't real, they wouldn't be able to kill us at night. And if that was true, they wouldn't be able to be a true scum. But they can, they are, and in this game, anything is possible. Stop using real world logic to apply to claims.

He can ID massive simply by openly claiming in the thread and confirm at night, scum can't fake it because they'd totally screw up in the night exchange.

Ooh, and guess what? Scum could claim the same thing. Massive gets killed, the scum is 'confirmed'. Alternatively, the scum gets killed, then so does Massive by association. I doubt the latter would be in the best interests of the scum early on, but it's easy to do. Would you stop this 'out of your ass' stuff now?

No I wouldnt but I sure would get the cop to investigate them one by one while sweeping the rest of the town with lynches. and that sir is GG scum.

Tell me how you would defend against such a massclaim followed up by a lynching the minority along with a one by one investigation of the masons which will clear them in 3 days in worst case scenario and 2 days if the cop had investigated any one of the 7 in the first day 0

Watch this, Pooky:

Day 1: 13 alive. 7 claimed masons. Town lynches one. Scum kills one.
Day 2. 11 alive. 1 confirmed mason. 5 claimed masons. Town lynches one. Scum kills one.
Day 3. 9 alive. 2 confirmed masons. 3 claimed masons. Town lynches one. Scum kills one.
Day 4. 7 alive. 3 confirmed masons. Lynch or lose.

Now, keep in mind, we have the final day with me still alive. I'm not a mason. Scum quick-lynch me and then win.

Yes, I damn well believe that this set-up is balanced just based on that. It takes 3 days to confirm all masons. This is also not counting vigs that go trigger happy (in which day 4 will lose for the town), since we have two vigs at least. This also doesn't take into account a cop, but that doesn't help much. We're not accounting for DG's role possibly giving good gifts to scum. We're not counting a possible redirector stopping the cop. This also doesn't take into account a lynch wasted on Primate, in which the scum get a free kill.

In other words, there's so much shit in this game that the town gets confused and starts fighting amongst itself. Letting the scum move in, keep the confusion going, fingering innocent townies, and ripping the town to pieces.

Sound familiar Pooky?

[Skruffs]

Pooky, relax. Town is not going bat shit crazy and lynching you for no reason. We are also going to go bat shit crazy and lynch Glork instead.

For the record, I claimed that I *MAY* have vigged phoebus. I have no idea what my action did, except that it didn't inspect or protect him. I've claimed targetting Theo last night, and I claimed targetting PHoebus two nights in a row before that. (One of them gave me an inspection on myself). I.. am sorry if it seems skepetical. I claimed all my info to be helpful to town at a time when I wasn't really suspicious and have an inspectoin from a cop. Theo, i find it funny that you are suspicious of mebeing some sort of godfather super role when i have a claimed inspection on me and you double vote-hammered a townie yesterday.

Theo claimed to have vigged primate n1, but primate has not claimed to be kill immune and nai has confirmed him as little nicky. (town) which we also know is mod confirmed, but, primate confirmed the meeting, so, we can be sure nai is telling the truth.

Nai/UT's inspection of Primate n1 makes perfect sense, considering his behavior day one. It sucks that it couldn't have been of glork though, if nai had cleared glork than we could have been sure that glork was town, or that nai was scum, either of which would have meant it was safe to lynch pooky.