Mini 413 - Famous CATS - Over! Quit pussyfooting around!

[DrippingGoofball]

Z'has anyone given any thought to the possibility of there being a cult???

I may be crazy, but I was just thinking that maybe... maybe Glork's "message-sending" ability is cult-leader related. And the "truth-checking" has to do with the whether the player targetted by Glork is recruitable or not - in other words, whether that player is scum or town.

See. That would make more sense than Glork being a pro-Town cop with multiple abilities layered on. Maybe he's a cult recruiter. Does that make sense?

[Skruffs]

Well.. that would mean that I am a cultist... which is completely untrue. If I was a cultist with Glork, I would know that Pooky was scum, and would be on Glork's side in lynching him, along with whoever else Glork targetted n0.
I mean, I guess it's WIFOM, but...

Pooky, the crux of yoru argument about mafia claiming masons is that Glork is probably scum because he pushed and succeeded in getting a claiemd mason killed day one?

[Glork]

Cult isn't possible, DGB.

Thesp acknowledged on Day One that he recieved and answered my message. He died as pro-town.

[Nai]

Nai, in your post above you are doing exactly what you complain Pooky is doing, because YOU are appealing to emotion, and YOU are debasing Pooky - when you ought to know for a fact that Pooky's argument about how foolish it would be for scum to claim masons early in the game is taken straight from the Mafia Player Bible.

How could anyone not agree with that? It's been said on this site a million times, and it's common wisdom. Yes, I support Pooky. He's totally right.

Think about it.

I mean - two claimed cop abilities, plus one-shot cop investigations, plus role-pairs that can sorta confirm each other...

Forgive me for thinking some of the cop claims are phony.

The funny thing about the cop claims being piled on, is that none of them are ringing alarm bells as possible counterclaims.

No, I'm not appealing to emotion. And appeal to emotion is "HOW CAN YOU NOT SEE THIS?!" What I'm doing is purely logical, stating the problems with my opponent, showing the fallacies he's making. Showing he's scummy. If that's an appeal to emotion, then neither Pooky nor I know how to play this game.

I can easily not agree with that. I don't give a damn what the 'mafia bible' says. If something is completely unexpected, then the scum can use it.

Now I'm officially done with the argument, it has nothing to do with this game. I find it amusing that neither Glork nor I have been counter-claimed, yet somehow people still think we're lying. I can't wait to see DGB/Pooky defend themselves after their partner is proven scum.

Z'I repeat.

***ONE full-time cop (Glork)
***ONE one-shot cop investigation gift (Miztef)
***ONE one-shot cop investigation (Nai)
***SEVERAL role-pairs that can sorta confirm each other...

Forgive me for thinking some of the cop claims are phony.

By the third night, that's a potential of 5 investigations!!! And a whole buncha quasi-masons!

Someone is making up some roles, and I am sorry, the most suspect role claim of all is Glork's Flying Pumpkin Shooting Lasers and Sending Messages at Night with Truth Serum and Therefore a Cop too.

Okay, let's see. There's my role, that has its drawback. I keep on saying 'drawback, drawback, drawback', showing that I don't get my investigation free, but people seem to think my 'role cop' role is perfect. I also never said it was one-shot, so you're making stuff up again.

Let's not forget, it is as likely as not that YOU gave Miztef the investigation.

And STOP saying there are mason pairs! It's a LIE, and you should be lynched for it!

To choose to stick your head in the sand and attack me regardless of these facts would be nothing less than gross negiligence on your part.

I'll be happy to discuss this on a mafia theory thread outside of this game. You're spending time talking about something that doesn't apply to this game at all instead of talking about the game itself, which is amazing.

Zeriously, how many scum would you need to balance a game with this many investigations? I'd say at least 9 or maybe even 10. Enough scum to be at LYLO on Day 1, minimum.

Yet there is no evidence of a serial killer (if you believe theo's claim; he might in fact be the SK, if there is one) but the SK works against the town and the mafia. And then you'd hope for balance's sake that he's investigation immune. No evidence of a cult, either, but it cannot be ruled out.

Occam's rasor - the simples explanation - is that Glork's claim is bogus, as is Miztef's. I have trouble believing that Nai might be scum, because such an overpowered town can't be matched against a scum that can be lynched with 3 votes. So I would believe Nai's one-shot investigation, but I have no faith in the other Glork of Miztef.

Anyone notice how DGB doesn't fail to agree with Pooky on every subject?

WHO brought up a serial killer? I didn't see that in any post. WHO brought up a cult?

That is NOT how Occam's razor works. Occam's Razor says the SIMPLEST explanation is the correct one. Saying two roles are completely made up, one of which being made up from day one, with evidence every dayscene that at least part of one role is correct, with a second person making up a claim to back him up, is NOT the simplest explenation. The simplest explenation is that Pooky is avoiding the issues, and DGB is was caught in a lie. There's no 'conspiracy theory among two people'. Just that two scum were caught, one in a lie. That's simple. Your explenation isn't.

Z'has anyone given any thought to the possibility of there being a cult???

I may be crazy, but I was just thinking that maybe... maybe Glork's "message-sending" ability is cult-leader related. And the "truth-checking" has to do with the whether the player targetted by Glork is recruitable or not - in other words, whether that player is scum or town.

See. That would make more sense than Glork being a pro-Town cop with multiple abilities layered on. Maybe he's a cult recruiter. Does that make sense?

No, it doesn't. That'd mean there's at least, what, 4 cult members at this point? Half the game? And the other half is scum? That makes no sense whatsoever.

There's also Glork's statement about Thesp.

[DrippingGoofball]

***SEVERAL role-pairs that can

sorta

confirm each other...

And a whole

buncha quasi-masons!

[...]

And STOP saying there are mason pairs! It's a LIE, and you should be lynched for it!

Zthat very interesting. I've been very careful in my wording, example, pairs that can SORTA confirm each other, and QUASI-masons. You are obvioulsy trying to misrepresent me, and twist my very clear words. Everyone can see that. Now, after lying about me, you call for MY LYNCH???

Zeriously, how many scum would you need to balance a game with this many investigations? I'd say at least 9 or maybe even 10. Enough scum to be at LYLO on Day 1, minimum.

Yet there is no evidence of a serial killer (if you believe theo's claim; he might in fact be the SK, if there is one) but the SK works against the town and the mafia. And then you'd hope for balance's sake that he's investigation immune. No evidence of a cult, either, but it cannot be ruled out.

Pooky IS right... yes, I agree with him. I think he is being set up by Glork and Miztef. And I am no so sure about Nai.

That'd mean there's at least, what, 4 cult members at this point? Half the game? And the other half is scum? That makes no sense whatsoever.

It does make sense, especially with a game loaded with power roles such as this one.

[DrippingGoofball]

Cult isn't possible, DGB.

Thesp acknowledged on Day One that he recieved and answered my message. He died as pro-town.

Zmaybe he refused to join your cult. I dunno. I am at a loss to explain your completely unbelievable claim, and your scheming behavior in this game, pushing to lynch two townies in a row, and now trying to add Pooky to your feline taxidermy collection.

[Glork]

Cult isn't possible, DGB.

Thesp acknowledged on Day One that he recieved and answered my message. He died as pro-town.

Zmaybe he refused to join your cult. I dunno. I am at a loss to explain your completely unbelievable claim, and your scheming behavior in this game, pushing to lynch two townies in a row, and now trying to add Pooky to your feline taxidermy collection.

...now you're just trying to concoct theories. Think about the implications of a cult where its targets could refuse memberships. I don't think anybody would accept a position as a cultist, and every person I target would instantly be aware of such a cult, even if they didn't join. That'd be such a horribly weak cult

Seriously. Stop trying to make up new theories every time you realize (or are shown) that all game evidence goes against what you claim. This "cult whose targets can refuse to join" idea is ridiculous. It is

FAR

more "Flying Pumpkin That Shoots Lasers Out Of Its Ass" than MessageSender/Cop (hybrids of regular roles have existed in the past -- Cop/Doc, Cop/RB, RB/Vig, Cop/Vig, etc etc). There is ZERO evidence of a cult, and there is even evidence AGAINST me being a cult leader. Your "Glork is mafia and trying to get a lynch in possible LyLo" theory has been shot down. You've been shown to have claimed two completely different things about failing your "Post Restriction," and your only response is "I didn't remember and I didn't check my role PM." You've come up with the hair-brained idea that I'm a cult leader and are obstinately clinging to that theory even though I just pointed out that it's near-impossible.

Do you actually

believe

any of the theories you have presented, or are you just fishing for anything that some mistaken townie might latch on to?

[Skruffs]

For the record, I side with the claimed cop, lylo or not. Don't take my not-voting as hesitancy or not. I'm just giving scum a chance to dig themselves a deeper hole.

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

How does this not apply to this game?

When considering the possible setup of the game, if we could remove one setup from being likely to be in play, would we not be able to then see if some claims are necesarily true?

When considering whether Mafia ever fakeclaim masons on day one, if we could conclude definitively that they never do and never will would that not land Glork's play day 1 in the serious anti town category? How is that information not relevant to the game?

Ask yourself this, how is it that on this website there has not be a SINGLE fakeclaim of masons on day 1 yet Glork leapt to the conclusion that we were dealing with such a fakeclaim here?

You can yell to the bloody heavens that they are not "masonpairs" but two "lives"(and I term lives in the sense that it takes 2 nights for the mafia to kill them and also they control 2 votes which really is all that they need to really destroy the mafia in the endgame) who can confirm each other's innocence are in every way a masonpair.

Sure it doesn't fit exactly the definition laid out by the game rules but in terms of overall game strategy they function exactly the same way.

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

[Nai]

Zthat very interesting. I've been very careful in my wording, example, pairs that can SORTA confirm each other, and QUASI-masons. You are obvioulsy trying to misrepresent me, and twist my very clear words. Everyone can see that. Now, after lying about me, you call for MY LYNCH???

"Quasi" is an adjective. You're STILL calling them masons. But, in an effort to not be called out on it again, you're adding the adjective 'quasi' so you can step away from your bad position of thinking there are masons, yet still act as if you're clinging to the idea. It's a transitioning statement, used to jump from a sinking ship in order not to get lynched.

Zmaybe he refused to join your cult. I dunno. I am at a loss to explain your completely unbelievable claim, and your scheming behavior in this game, pushing to lynch two townies in a row, and now trying to add Pooky to your feline taxidermy collection.

I think it's more that you want to lynch Glork, knowing he's scum, and you're throwing everything but the kitchen sink at him and trying to see what sticks. Since all else has failed, why not a cult?

The claim is believable. Especially if you consider that I play a Vig/Role Cop. However, my role is MUCH more powerful, so I get drawbacks. His is just a message sender and a cop.

As for the people lynched, let's examine that claim. We lynched one part of a 2-part role. That means half of it is still alive. That also reduced us to normal mafia numbers. The other guy we supposedly 'lynched' is also still alive. Which means we're STILL at normal mafia numbers. In essence, we basically no-lynched twice, but we got twice the information people normally do in this situation.

Right now, we have the following situation: Glork has a guilty investigation on Pooky. Miztef has an 'innocent' investigation on Glork. So far so good. On my end, I've shown that a player has lied several times about their role. The flavor isn't famous, the role doesn't fit the claimed flavor, and they've lied about what the drawback is, and can't prove any of the things they've claimed. Their gift only went to one claimed person, and we can't figure out what that gift is.

So we basically have one mafia confirmed by cop, and another person who is scummy as hell. Right now, it's weighing who is more dangerous to the town. We can always go back and kill pooky. We can always go back and kill DGB. The question is, who is more dangerous tonight.

Just keep digging the hole deeper. You'll reach China soon.

[Nai]

EBWODP: First of all, it doesn't apply because, as said, we don't have any mason pairs. The only one close is Zindaras and Carbon Copy, but that's a single player. And, as has been said by others who have seen the role in action, it's usually a MAFIA role, not a town role. I've never seen it in play, but they gave several examples.

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

Yes DgB, dig your way to China and we can make sweet love under a starry night.

If I was scum, me and my scumgroup would quicklynch you, I would steal your role, we'd roleblock TheoVig shoot your cop and I'd use your vig ability on somebody and we'd win.(since that hasn't happened wouldn't it imply something about whether I'm in a scumgroup or not?)

But of course logic isn't important here. All that matters is that you have your mind set on me being scum and refuse to consider any other possibilities despite the massive amount of evidence against it.

guess i'm screwed along with the rest of this town.

[Glork]

That is, of course, assuming that you are a Scum Replacement and that you have a Scum Roleblocker as well.

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

do you think i have a replacement ability?

do you think there is a scum roleblocker?

[Glork]

Possibly.

No.


Again, if there were a scum roleblocker, I am convinced that they would have targeted

me

.

[Nai]

I find it amusing that you're saying "Do you think I'm a replacement" when you already claimed as much. It's amusing to me that you're actually helping to cast doubt on your own role.

Funnily enough, if you steal my role, you get my restrictions. And if you do so, you'll NEVER be able to use any of it. And then we get to quicklynch YOU tomorrow (you'll have my same voting problem), and townies win.

Yes, your plan is incredible.

[DrippingGoofball]

I think it's more that you want to lynch Glork,

knowing he's scum

.

Zwoohoooooo!

Nai's Freudian slip #2!

How can anyone not think Nai is Glork's scumbuddy after that???

I could easily switch my vote to Nai.

[Glork]

I want to hear Theo's thoughts right now.

I would also like to hear from Miztef.


Then I'd like to lynch either of Pooky/DGB.

[DrippingGoofball]

http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 662#647662

ZThis is the second time Nai comes flat out and declares Glork to be scum.

Come on people... the SECOND time!

Glork is a fakeclaiming scum trying to nail Pooky. I am more convinced than ever that Glork/Nai/Miztef are scum, and Pooky is innocent.

[DrippingGoofball]

The claim is believable. Especially if you consider that I play a Vig/Role Cop. However, my role is MUCH more powerful, so I get drawbacks. His is

just

a message sender and a cop

.

Zwhy am I not surprised this is your opinion? "Just" a message-sender, AND a cop. Aw, only that. Yep. It's as toothless as a 50% random roleblocker.

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

My claim and his belief of it are 2 entirely separate things Nai, I'm trying to trap him in a contradiction now because either a) he believes i am a replacement scumbag in which case I can point out the fact that the scum haven't killed anything useful for me to replace or that we could quicklynch you FTW since I can replace you and then use your ability to win or b)he doesn't believe my replacement ability in which case I can bloody prove it by lynching you and using your investigation ability on someone who will confirm that they were approached in a dark alley tommorrow.

He dodged the question with a "possibly"

It's amazing how awesome you've beaten my "plan" consider this:

9 alive now, we lynch you -=> 8 alive I replace/vig scum NK/block vig -=> 6 alive, town lynches me =>5 alive scum NK=> 4 alive with 2 scum => scum win.

You really don't think about what you post before you post it do you?

[Nai]

Dripping, do you have any idea how the English language works at all? Do you know what the term 'hypothetical' means?

In the second one, I'm comparing my role to his. My role is able to kill AND learn what your role is. His just gets your alignment and he can check to see what your opinion on cookies are. Yes, I consider my role to be more powerful than his.

Get a grip on English language, then we'll start talking, hmm?

[DrippingGoofball]

Zlook. I want this town to win the game despite its ineptitude to realize that Glork/Miztef/Nai are the scum. But it's looking that of the 3 scumbags, it would be too difficult to lynch Glork, because he's been so good at engineering the lynches of townies, Day 1, Day 2, and now Day 3 with the help of his buddies.

Here.

Maybe this will be easier.

vote: Nai

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

even though his role is a thread confirmed cop without restrictions and yours not only has incredible restrictions according to you but is all a liability in the endgame as scum can quicklynch you to win which effectively moves Lynch or Lose closer by a day.

That makes total sense...