Mini 413 - Famous CATS - Over! Quit pussyfooting around!

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

counterclaimed cop? Miztef's claimed an investigative ability(one shot) you've had an investigative/vig like ability according to you, why would the town necesarily have a standard cop with message sending on top of that?

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

You highly doubt the town would have no cop.

Yet Miztef's claimed a 1 shot investigation ability

and according to you, you also have an investigative ability.

Sorry you honestly make no sense sometimes.

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

Sorry but where is Glork's logical and consistent explanation for lynching Zindaras Day 1 when Zindaras claimed was is essentially a Mason role in terms of strategical use(by strategy I mean it takes 2 kills for the badguys to get rid of, they know each other to be protown and they have 1 vote each for a collective double vote) so basically a mason group except there's only 1 person playing both roles so in an endgame with 2 masons and 1 scum, the masons will have no trouble voting that scum out, which is the strategic advantage imparted by masons.

Also consider the fact that in the game that I did cite, Glork did not push for the lynch of the 2 masons who claimed day one after coming under suspicion, he was protown in that game. In this game, he does push for Zindaras's lynch. I raised this issue and he has never actually logically addressed the strategic difference in the two situations.

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

Nai, also I just want you to say this:

"I believe it is a viable scum strategy to fakeclaim Masons on Day 1 when they have no idea how many killing groups are in the game, how many investigative groups are in the game, and no real idea how they could survive to endgame in such a stance"

Or in short

"I believe it is a viable scum strategy to fakeclaim Masons on Day 1"

Or if you don't like how that sounds since you think Zind/CC aren't actually "masons":

"I believe it is a valid scum strategy for a scum with a doppelganger to claim and pretend they are innocent together on day 1 even though they have no idea if there are opposing scumgroups or any nightkills they have to worry about or how many cops would investigate them"

or how about

"I believe it is valid protown strategy to push for the lynch of 2 "lives" who have been tied together in a way such that the innocence of one implies with absolute certainty the innocence of the other and that such a strategy is far superior than simply investigating them at night"

Because that's what you would have to believe in order to believe right now that Glork is innocent.

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

Oh and on a completed unrelated note, I also want you to say something like this:

"I also think it is a completely valid strategy if you are a cop that sends messages with public reveal to hint at the investigative nature of your messages on day 1 in order to put at risk the life of yourself and your investigative target as such an action can help when you claim later even though it might jeopardize your immediate health and that of your investigated target"

Again, because you would have to believe something for you to believe that Glork is scum.

[DrippingGoofball]

You highly doubt the town would have no cop.

Yet Miztef's claimed a 1 shot investigation ability

and according to you, you also have an investigative ability.

Sorry you honestly make no sense sometimes.

Zexactly. That's where I hang. If Glork's claim is true, when we've had 5 investigations in 3 days! That's nearly half the players. And who knows if there are other investigative gifts to be passed on later in the game?!?

With so many one-shot cop abilities, why would we also have a cop/message-sender/truth-serum flying pumpkin shooting lasers??? A far more likely and simple explanation is that Glork is Godfatherific.

[Nai]

Even though I quoted the breadcrumb for you in this post? Why bother remembering if it's been quoted for you on this page by me?

So let me get this straight, when I make posts that start with logic then descend into angry rants, you decided to skip the rational logic, read just the angry rant part and then rant back at me?

my how productive.

Thank you for misrepresenting me. I read your actual posts. But when you start ranting angrily, I decide it's probably not worth my time to read through the insults and find your point. I'd rather wait until you rephrase, calmly.

And, again, that doesn't say his target. That just says it looks like an investigation, while breadcrumbing for a later role-claim. He had ALREADY targetted Thesp at that point. He wasn't talking about a future target.

counterclaimed cop? Miztef's claimed an investigative ability(one shot) you've had an investigative/vig like ability according to you, why would the town necesarily have a standard cop with message sending on top of that?

You must have this problem with reading, or perhaps I just missed something. Unless the latter is true, I was so sure Miztef's one-shot was a GIFT from someone else, while my own ability has a very tough drawback. Something I've said several times.

Yet Miztef's claimed a 1 shot investigation ability

and according to you, you also have an investigative ability.

You like repeating yourself in consecutive posts, don't you? As I said: Miztef's was a gift he didn't start with (unless I missed something), and mine has a hefty drawback.

Also consider the fact that in the game that I did cite, Glork did not push for the lynch of the 2 masons who claimed day one after coming under suspicion, he was protown in that game. In this game, he does push for Zindaras's lynch. I raised this issue and he has never actually logically addressed the strategic difference in the two situations.

I would have pushed the Zindaras lynch as well, but that's just me.

He actually HAS addressed the question, several times. You just keep on brushing off his answer.

"I believe it is a viable scum strategy to fakeclaim Masons on Day 1"

I've said it already, in other words, so I'll say it again: I think it's a good strategy for scum to fakeclaim masons, since no one would ever believe scum would do it.

"I believe it is valid protown strategy to push for the lynch of 2 "lives" who have been tied together in a way such that the innocence of one implies with absolute certainty the innocence of the other and that such a strategy is far superior than simply investigating them at night"

I believe it's a valid protown strategy to lynch one half of a dual-lived role, which would reduce us to normal mafia numbers, and use the investigation on someone else.

"I also think it is a completely valid strategy if you are a cop that sends messages with public reveal to hint at the investigative nature of your messages on day 1 in order to put at risk the life of yourself and your investigative target as such an action can help when you claim later even though it might jeopardize your immediate health and that of your investigated target"

I think it's a completely valid strategy if you are a cop with a very odd restriction to breadcrumb your ability so that you can prove it exists later on in the game.

Especially when you NEVER told anyone who you were investigating, only revealed the results at a later point when it would help the game.

[Nai]

By the way, since it's amusing:

Click here, DGB, and read the bottom of the first post. An actual role.

Fixed tags. ~bert

[DrippingGoofball]

I make posts that start with logic then descend into angry rants, you decided to skip the rational logic, read just the angry rant part and then rant back at me?

Zplease guys, do not let emotions and personal issues get in the way here. Please take a deep breath, an pay attention. I might be wrong, but I get a feeling that you've entrenched yourselves in an adversarial, rather than collaborative discussion.

I beg you Nai, ** IF ** I am wrong about your Freudian slips, please don't dismiss all of Pooky's arguments like it's impossible for him to say anything right. Again, I might be misunderstanding you both, but I almost think that if Pooky would tell you that square-circles don't exist, you'd automatically argue that you see square-circles everyday. I hope I am wrong.

[DrippingGoofball]

Z'and I agree fully with the mason day 1 fakeclaim. Even if no one is dumb enough to believe the scum would try to pull it off, one investigation, or remaining alive late in the game, and two scums down for the price of one. If you can't see why that's the stupidest scum strategy ever, I hope you and I are never scum together. Especially with your propensity to Freudian slip like the floor sweeper at banana peeling plant.

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

Even though I quoted the breadcrumb for you in this post? Why bother remembering if it's been quoted for you on this page by me?

So let me get this straight, when I make posts that start with logic then descend into angry rants, you decided to skip the rational logic, read just the angry rant part and then rant back at me?

my how productive.

Thank you for misrepresenting me. I read your actual posts. But when you start ranting angrily, I decide it's probably not worth my time to read through the insults and find your point. I'd rather wait until you rephrase, calmly.

Even though my logic has always been in the beginning and my insults are in the end? So how do you know my posts are full of insults if you don't actually read them? Do your eyes automatically wander to the bottom instead of the top?

And, again, that doesn't say his target. That just says it looks like an investigation, while breadcrumbing for a later role-claim. He had ALREADY targetted Thesp at that point. He wasn't talking about a future target.

Everyone knew Thesp had been targetted by some kind of message sender at that point, what they did not know is who targetted thesp or what implications the message could have, putting out as a suggestion that the message could be investigative in nature is a huge no-no because it puts a giant kill me sign on Thesp AND Glork because it suggests 1)Thesp has been investigated, Scum kinda like killing investigated innocents and 2)Glork knows more than he should about this message thing, he's even suggested investigative ability, maybe he's the cop? Scum might never have even thought of the idea that the first page answers might mean that the person has been investigated if you don't mention it. Pointing out an idea like that puts unnecesary risk on his shoulders and Thesp's shoulders and I don't think a rational thinking player would do something like that,

it shows that he's more concerned about getting his claim across and having it believed than the risk of having a scum catch on and kill him at night for it

That's exactly assbackwards in terms of what a cop's priorities ought to be but exactly correct for a scumbag who doesn't need to worry about other scum catching on and shooting him but does need to worry about having his fakeclaim believed by the town[/b]

counterclaimed cop? Miztef's claimed an investigative ability(one shot) you've had an investigative/vig like ability according to you, why would the town necesarily have a standard cop with message sending on top of that?

You must have this problem with reading, or perhaps I just missed something. Unless the latter is true, I was so sure Miztef's one-shot was a GIFT from someone else, while my own ability has a very tough drawback. Something I've said several times.

Miztef stated he received it as a result of the dead nemesis, even if it was a gift, having a gift giver who could give investigations is about as strong as an actual cop, if you look over previous minis, how many investigative roles do they usually contain? If you believe Glork's version of things, there'd be 3 investigative roles minimum as Miztef has a potential investigation, you have limited investigation abilities, and Glork would have unlimited investigative abilities that also happen to be thread confirmed, not to mention the fact that DGB could potentially give out investigative abilities, so tell me, how many minis have 3 or 4 investigative abilities as compared to minis that have 1 or even none?

Yet Miztef's claimed a 1 shot investigation ability

and according to you, you also have an investigative ability.

You like repeating yourself in consecutive posts, don't you? As I said: Miztef's was a gift he didn't start with (unless I missed something), and mine has a hefty drawback.

Actually I rephrased because I was concerned you'd blow off the first post

Also consider the fact that in the game that I did cite, Glork did not push for the lynch of the 2 masons who claimed day one after coming under suspicion, he was protown in that game. In this game, he does push for Zindaras's lynch. I raised this issue and he has never actually logically addressed the strategic difference in the two situations.

I would have pushed the Zindaras lynch as well, but that's just me.

Do you know how often masons have been lynched on day 1?

He actually HAS addressed the question, several times. You just keep on brushing off his answer.

Actually no, he hasn't actually come out and said something to the tune of that he believes the nighttime talk of Lowell/Mikanoff would be such a decisive advantage that makes it different from the path pursued vis-a-vis Zindaras

"I believe it is a viable scum strategy to fakeclaim Masons on Day 1"

I've said it already, in other words, so I'll say it again: I think it's a good strategy for scum to fakeclaim masons, since no one would ever believe scum would do it.

But on day one? When you have absolutely no idea if there is a serial killer out there who might not want you to live or if there are cops out there who will investigate you? Consider for a moment that in the endgame where there are 2 masons and a serial killer that the serial killer would always lose, or that in the endgame where there is 1 mason and 1 serial killer and 1 townie, the odds for the SK are much worse than 2 random townies and the SK since the mason is confirmed via his partner so he has one less lynch oppurtunity, if you look at the logic from the standpoint of the mafia, it is similar, why would Mafia or SKs let these 2 fake masons live to the endgame?(which is what they would have to do in order to make the gambit worth it since if one of them dies the other is revealed and good as dead) How can they possibly survive to endgame when they know that the town will begin asking questions if they don't drop dead b4 the game gets there AND they have no idea if there is an SK who will kill them at night and then reveal them for the liars they are to the town?

"I believe it is valid protown strategy to push for the lynch of 2 "lives" who have been tied together in a way such that the innocence of one implies with absolute certainty the innocence of the other and that such a strategy is far superior than simply investigating them at night"

I believe it's a valid protown strategy to lynch one half of a dual-lived role, which would reduce us to normal mafia numbers, and use the investigation on someone else.

Let's look at the difference then shall we? If the town makes the arrangement that the cop investigates one of the "masons" at random and reveals only if it is a guilty, then on the next day if the cop is not dead, the town will know for sure if the masons are legit or not since the cop either comes out or doesn't(a cop coming out to nail 2 scum is hardly a poor move), also the town lynches somebody else and finds out if they are guilty or innocent.

So at the end the town is at the point where they lynched 1 unknown and found guilt or innocent AND know the alignment of our "masons"

At the end of your strategy where the cop investigates elsewhere and the town lynches a mason, the town on day 2 does NOT know the alignment of an unknown(Only the cop does and he might die before he reveals his information) and the alignment of the remaining alive mason.

Would you really say that the situation for the town in the second example where they followed your strategy would be better than mine? I currently believe my strategy is superior because it gives the town more information to work with on the 2nd day. Not to mention any interactions gained when you look for that lynch on the first day.

"I also think it is a completely valid strategy if you are a cop that sends messages with public reveal to hint at the investigative nature of your messages on day 1 in order to put at risk the life of yourself and your investigative target as such an action can help when you claim later even though it might jeopardize your immediate health and that of your investigated target"

I think it's a completely valid strategy if you are a cop with a very odd restriction to breadcrumb your ability so that you can prove it exists later on in the game.

Especially when you NEVER told anyone who you were investigating, only revealed the results at a later point when it would help the game.

Yes, you never did tell explicitly, but the implications of your hint would be such that the mafia would be able to pick up on it and kill you for it. Why stick your neck out like that when it's clear that your loss would devastate the town? Should a cop be more concerned about his survival so that he does find more useful information or about whether the town believes him or not? How does 1 breadcrumb like that contribute in any meaningful way towards clearing such a cop? A scumbag who was planning to fakeclaim with his message sending role could just as easily have breadcrumbed the same clue! Heck if you are going to be breadcrumbing cop, why not encode it into a message that the scum couldn't break instead of putting it into the open like that and endangering your life and that of your target?

Italics are my responses to Nai's post.

[Nai]

I beg you Nai, ** IF ** I am wrong about your Freudian slips, please don't dismiss all of Pooky's arguments like it's impossible for him to say anything right. Again, I might be misunderstanding you both, but I almost think that if Pooky would tell you that square-circles don't exist, you'd automatically argue that you see square-circles everyday. I hope I am wrong.

I'm glad to say that I DO disagree with you here. I'm just saying that, if scum knows that you'd NEVER expect them to do something, and that you'd deny them doing it, they'll do it JUST to help them win.

The day 1 fakeclaim, mind, might not help very much. But if the town is already doing a mass-claim, it'll take them a while to be able to figure out that the scum lied. With that, the scum might be able to do REALLY well misdirecting the town. If you go what Pooky said, the town wouldn't want to lynch them to confirm. So the cop would want to check them. If the cop had already claimed, they could just kill the cop and that would be that. I don't think scum should claim on day 1 unless it's a mass claim or some such.

However, later in the game, day 2 or 3, when people notice a link between two scum, the scum can easily just claim mason and get away with it. At that point, they can probably pull off the win with the claim, and the town would lose just because they have to spend time checking it that night. That's why lynching one claimed mason is helpful.

But again, Zindaras/Carbon Copy is NOT a mason. And its already been said, and backed up with linked games, that the role is more a scum one than a townie one. With that kind of history, it's not a big leap to have them just lynch straight away. If you KNOW a certain claim is scum related, why do you make such a big deal about lynching and getting it wrong? If you're playing Star Wars Mafia and someone claims Darth Vader, who you KNOW is a bad guy, why not just lynch him? And, if he turned out town in the end, would you seriously berate the guy that pushed for the lynch? It looks to be mafia, from past experience, so why is it such a big deal that they think it's mafia?

[Nai]

Yes, you never did tell explicitly, but the implications of your hint would be such that the mafia would be able to pick up on it and kill you for it. Why stick your neck out like that when it's clear that your loss would devastate the town? Should a cop be more concerned about his survival so that he does find more useful information or about whether the town believes him or not? How does 1 breadcrumb like that contribute in any meaningful way towards clearing such a cop? A scumbag who was planning to fakeclaim with his message sending role could just as easily have breadcrumbed the same clue! Heck if you are going to be breadcrumbing cop, why not encode it into a message that the scum couldn't break instead of putting it into the open like that and endangering your life and that of your target?

This is all I'm going to answer, because the rest is just more and more mafia theory that has no relevance to this game.

If you have a role that will sound like Flying Pumpkins, you NEED to have a way to prove it. If I have a role that allows me to not only vig, but Role Cop (like I do), I need a way to prove it. My way of proving it is my 3 vote-to-kill restriction. It's not balanced JUST to give me a horrible restriction, but it IS to give me something in return.

Glork has a cop ability, but that ability relies on him sending a message, asking the question, AND having the answers posted in thread. To any townie, i.e. you, that sounds very farfetched. The only way for him to NOT get lynched upon claiming it is to breadcrumb it.

You're also talking about his breadcrumb from the point of view of a person that already knows what he claimed. No one seemed to pick up on the breadcrumb that day, so obviously there was no issue.

Furthermore, if he makes a breadcrumb that's impossible to pick up for the mafia, that also means it's impossible for the town.

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

How does him breadcrumbing in any way "prove" his role? A mafia player with a message sending ability could just as easily breadcrumb with the intention of fakeclaiming cop later...

[DrippingGoofball]

Z'you must be the only player here to not realize how self-destructive a Day 1 fake mason claim would be. It's common knowledge. Even if you have be "benefit" that the town doesn't expect scum to do it, inevitably, near or at endgame, it's going to fall apart as one mason is outed as guilty, and the other is compromised. Two for one.

Glork knows better. The fact that he is not trying to properly educate you when you are so obviously mistaken in your understanding of mafia strategy, is further damning evidence that he'd rather have you fall into his elephant trap, than set you right, and give Pooky the credibility he deserves.

^^^^
Read again. Let settle in your mind. Think.
^^^^

Maybe at the end of the game, he'll laugh at you politely, and explain to you why scum cannot pull a Day 1 mason fakeclaim, it's suicide. Maybe you'll listen to him after the town spectacularly loses.

It's like you have a mental block. Maybe you should think with the left side of your brain!

[Nai]

Christ! This has nothing to do with the game itself! It's a discussion for mafia theory, and has nothing to do with this game! You guys have been doing this this entire day, avoiding the actual game itself and discussing something that didn't actually happen! Whether or not scum will claim MASONS day 1 has nothing to do with a single player with two roles in a game claiming day 1, when that role is historically more associated with scum!

Glork has nothing to do with this. It has nothing to do with the game, and has been used as a way to avoid talking about the actual game. Pooky and DGB have brought it up repeatedly when they have no way to prove that they're town or Glork/Me are scum, using it as a way to stall for time before they rehash the same arguments again, hoping people have forgotten the last time.

[Nai]

And, as I said before, breadcrumbing is the only way that he can make his role seem at all real. If he doesn't breadcrumb, he has no credibility. Yes, scum can do it. But, as town, it's the only way he can show himself to be town. Otherwise, he's claiming flying pumpkin, and no one believes him. The only way to get people to believe his town, as scum or town, is to breadcrumb. And, currently, I believe him. That's the end point.

[theopor_COD]

This will sound goddam stupid considering and is not in any shape relevant to the game etc, but is there some connection (alts) here?

http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... &&start=33

[DrippingGoofball]

Z'No Alts, bertrand is my son and we use the same computer.

...and

sometimes

someone forgets to log out... (I do it too)... ~Bert

[Nai]

DGB, remind me, what happens when you miss a Z in a post?

[Skruffs]

Pooky..

When I saw "Knocked Up" I laughed the first half of it. I liked the loud laid back fat guy who knocked up a tv reporter and was bragging abuot it. I liked the crude jokes, the bantering, the acid trip, etc.
But when he started sayign FUCK THIS and FUCK THAT and FUCK YOU and FUCK HIM and all that sort of stuff... I pretty much lost ALL interest in anything he stood for or had to say.

I'm sorry. The word "Fuck" is a pretty powerful word - it's like giving someone the finger. If you start a post off with logic and wind up just giving someone the finger OVER AND OVER AND OVER AND OVER AND OVER AND OVER AND OVER AND OVER AND OVER AND OVER AND OVER AND OVER AND OVER AND OVER again, It means nothing, my brain just shuts down, and I start looking at the background imagery.

That's what you are doing, right now. Do you realize how harmful DGB is being for your case by acting scummy and sidling up to you the entire day? You don't seem to mind, though, you haven't questioned DGB once. You are so sure that Glork is scum that you have put all your energy into trying to get him lynched, and you're ignoring the other raptors coming in from the flanks. IF YOU ARE TOWN, then take a few deep breaths, look around, and look at how everyone is playing.

Also - why do you think that the town is over powered considering it HAS To be known that some of hte players are lying about their role or alignment or whatnot AND that this is (right on page one) a bastard modded game?

I'm gone until monday.

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

Wait Nai, if scum can do the same thing, how does he doing it show he is town?

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

1.) I don't think this town is overpowered, I think Glork/Miztef are lying through their teeth and the scum are about to waltz away with a win. I'm saying that if Glork was actually protown, then the town would indeed be horribly overpowered.

2.)Right, the word "fuck" is indeed a really powerful word, it shows just about the deepest level of anger a person could have at another person. I don't curse very often in my games. I used to sometimes when I got emotional about a game but I've gone a while from there. Usually it takes quite a bit to tick me off and even then I'm usually very civil and patient and willing to explain my logic and lay it out and defend it when necesary because the other person either doesn't understand or doesn't agree with it. That's how I believe the game of Mafia is meant to be played, I believe it's about the reasonable exchange of arguments followed up by reasonable debates on the arguments. I

love

this game, I will be brutally honest with you when I say I absolutely

love

this game to death. I absolutely enjoy debating the ins and outs of strategy and whether somebody is scum or not. I absolutely

love

this game and I am somewhat offended when a person does not care about this game. Sometimes I read games in these forums and I see games that are almost entirely randomly determined, people make mistakes, logic isn't used at all, lynches are either too fast or too slow based on the player pool and actual reasoning and debate don't happen and games get turned into a popularity contest of who is liked more or less. I feel geniune pain when I read games like that. That is how much I love this game. You can tell that I probably need to get out more or find a hobby that I don't need to be so emotionally invested in, I can tell you that you're probably right about that. Even as emotionally invested as I am in this game, I almost never use cursing, I've actually refrained from cursing several times this game. It's just very fustrating for me that I am pouring my guts out and pointing out obvious flaws with Glork's play so far and Nai shoots them down with comments like "not related to the actual game" or "It's a valid strategy for Mafia to fakeclaim masons Day 1". When I read CC/Zindara's posts on day one, I absolutely feel with every inch of my being that he is a protown player just by the way he has posted. Why would CC connect himself to Zindaras if he is actually a scum puppet and coming under fire? Even if he does avoid the day 1 lynch, he'd be a prime target for a possible SK and a definite target for the cop and the town will be suspicious as hell if he makes it anywhere near the endgame. That's why in my opinion I would bet 100 to 1 odds at that point in the game that Zindaras/CC is actually a protown role. I reasoned that because Glork knows better than to push for such a lynch when he is the COP and can figure out if they are scum or not in the night that he would keep them alive. I even cited a game where 2 players came under intense scrutiny day 1 and were absolutely absolved when they claimed masons. Glork was in that game, he did not push for their lynch after the mason claim, look at his behaviour in this game and compare the difference. When Nai says something like that this is absolutely not related to the game, I honestly weep in my soul for the future of this site if more players are like this. If you can figure out what the optimal town play is at a point in the past and see if a player who should know what the optimal play is at that point and then compare to see if he followed such a play, you can see if he is likely to be town or not. What the best play for the town is at such a point absolutely does have to do with the innocence or guilt of a player at that point. Why does Glork perform differently here than there? Zindaras/CC is in effect the same as a mason pair EXCEPT that he does not have two brains, that's the only difference, and the ability of a mason pair to discuss privately is not anywhere near the level of importance that is given to the fact that they will vote together and that they take 2 kills to take down. That's all Lowell/Mikanoff were good for in that game where they claimed mason and weren't lynched, they soaked up 2 nightkills so players like Glork could live to the endgame and catch scum because the scum knew they would not turn on each other in the endgame and would be confirmed innocents.

3. On my other point, think for a second what the point of breadcrumbing is, you want your breadcrumb to be unable to be seen by other players and for it to confirm yourself later. A breadcrumb such as,

Could be possible that such a message was sent by a scum role. On the other hand this role does have a history of being protown. Pretty sure our best option at this point is to keep our eyes open

innocous innnocent fluff post, doesn't really give anything away to the scum, however the first letter of each sentence spells out the word COP.

Not the best post I know but with some effort you could probably post something with those 3 letters starting the sentences such that the post would be less conspicious. The whole point of breadcrumbing is that scum can't read it and go "Hmm, he's got a point, maybe thesp did get investigated, let's kill him" or "Hmm Glork seems to know a bit too much about this role, maybe he's the cop, let's get him".

The last thing a cop should want to do is to draw attention to himself, especially since a scum could also have made the same breadcrumb in order to set up a later fakeclaim.

My point here is that not only is the breadcrumbing not that helpful since it doesn't definitively prove anything, it is also needlessly risky since it suggests to the scum not only that Thesp might have been investigated, but also that Glork might be the cop.

My point is that GlorkCop would not have breadcrumbed like that on day one because GlorkCop doesn't want to die on Night One. That post seems to be much more interested in setting up a breadcrumb to be used later as backing for a claim than it is for hiding the fact that the player is actually a cop. My point is that his priority list was not 1)Avoid nightkill 2) Breadcrumb Cop. That implies that he was not worried about a nightkill and such an action would make a lot more sense from a bulletproof scum than a cop.

[Nai]

Okay, I read halfway through the big block of text before, as usual, I found myself misrepresented. You weep when people don't take the game seriously? I weep when you guys continually misrepresent me and hope to get away with it.

I NEVER said that your talking about Glork in that other game had nothing to do with this one. I, each and every time, was talking about the

constant discussion on day 1 mason claims.

Let me repeat this so it is clear.

I feel that the constant discussion on the validity of day 1 fake mason claims has nothing to do with this game.

One more time.

It is in my opinion that there is no need for a discussion about day 1 fake mason claims and if they are a valid strategy.

I hope three times is enough.

Now, Pooky, you talk about people brushing off comments. What about the one I make?

Pooky, answer me this: If a role is known to be scum-related in many other games, is it not a valid play to assume it is a scum-related role in this game, and thus act accordingly?

To answer your question about GlorkCop breadcrumbing: Unfortunately, this is WIFOM argument. ScumGlork wants to breadcrumb in order to get people to believe his outlandish role. TownGlork

has

to breadcrumb in order to get the town to believe the outlandish role he's been stuck with.

As for your innocent breadcrumb, no one would pick up on that. And, if he went back and said "Look!", people would brush it off. A breadcrumb HAS to be noticeable, otherwise it means nothing. Unfortunately, it helps the scum AND the town to notice it. If it's far too hard to get, then it's not worth using. A breadcrumb is THERE to be noticed, not to be looked over. If it's looked over, pointing to it is as good as pointing to a random post and saying you put a key word in it.

Since the site won't let me post, another topic:

Pooky, answer me this. Does not a mason pair usually take up TWO slots in a 12 person game? Does it not, then, mean something different when the second life of Zindaras is an EXTRA character? That is, it pushes our player count to

13

, not

12

? Would this not, if we had 3 scum, mean that lynching to confirm does NOT hurt us?

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

god i wasnt talking about you

i was talking about the lurkers