Mini 470 - Some Guys Are Trying To Kill You (done)

[Streeflo]

Vote: Niv

because his name is short and easy to type.
RANDOM BANDWAGON FTW!

[Streeflo]

Unvote, Vote: Soupfly

I don't like that "we gotta work hard, we lost our cop" speech - sounds suspiciously like the "congratulating the doc" tell to me.

I'd have to agree with this.

Unvote;
FoS: SoupFly

[Streeflo]

Sorry guys, my computer decided to die on me so I'll have very very limited access for a week or so. I'll try and go on when I can.

A too-townie lynch is bad. I just got a glimpse of that during a quick read.
And how would khelvaster know if he investigated a Godfather? Oo

[Streeflo]

Yay! I didn't get replaced.

I'll do a reread as soon as possible. I have internet access again now.

[Streeflo]

Well Ero, I wouldn't say I was attacking SoupFly. I find him scummy, as you said, "not

that

scummy".

I say we lynch some inactives (I agree if they're town, its a bad idea, but we're likely to mislynch day 1 anyway) Take out some useless baggage and get this down to the good stuff. What do we get, three mislynches before we're put at LyLo (assuming no doc saves or vig kills). I say we waste one on Day 1 removing an inactive, but not right now, discussion is vital.

Ero, you've put a good point there, but I don't think it will be that same side for the rest of the game. I'll be using this post as a reference point to see who always falls on the same side of debates (That is, say Erg0 and Niv are always together and close chronologically, thus they could be scum [hypothetical, not real] )

Now this I have no qualms about.

Unvote;

if I was, cause I honestly don't remember.

Vote: Oman

[Streeflo]

You find me scummy beacuse I suggest if this goes nowhere we lose a lurker?

Okay Streeflo, give me you're idea, I'd like to see how you'd deal with a situation like this, many players away making it very hard to analyse anything.

Okay, let's do what you said. We'll randomly lynch one of the lurkers and *hope* that s/he's scum.

Let's do as you say and "take out some useless baggage", so by the time we get to the "good stuff", we'll be at LyLo. Completely magnificent...

[Streeflo]

Discussion is good, I don't advocate randomly lynching lurkers just because they are lurkers.

[Streeflo]

people should be lynched for what they sat, not what they dont.

LOL! Interesting tactic you have here.

I did not see the zakk post earlier, but now that Erg0 pointed it out, it reeks of oppurtunistic scum.

Unvote; Vote: zakk_status

FoS: Oman

[Streeflo]

I'm here, but I see no reason to change my vote as of now. I don't think soupfly is any scummier than the next person here.

[Streeflo]

VI is village idiot right? I've never heard that term used in-game before... Oo

[Streeflo]

I don't know, I don't advocate lynching a village idiot just because they're unhelpful, but if they are truly honestly acting scummy, then that's different.

[Streeflo]

Anyway,

FOS

Streeflo for #164 for now...just a feeling I have, nothing more at the moment.

Interesting. Do you want me to defend myself against this... feeling?

[Streeflo]

Well, I find it kind of dumb to declare yourself a village idiot. Like Oman said, you're either saying you're scum or useless. Not very helpful either way. If you think you're just going to be useless, why not replace out?

[Streeflo]

Streeflo, why get replaced out? It ruins the point of playing, we want players to get better, not get outta here.

Gator's on his second game and he's 14, its remarkably unfair to tell him to replace out!

I want to vote for you, but it will be in anger, so I'll hold back.

FoS and FoA Streeflo

Finger of Anger upon you.

I'm not

telling

him to replace out. I'm just saying, if he really downplays his ability that much, why play at all? Have some confidence in yourself or something. It's really stupid to go around saying "Hey guys, I'm useless. So just ignore me =)"
I think 14 year olds can play this game too. You can be a noob and get help, but you don't need to

declare

yourself as an "idiot".

[Streeflo]

Mainly the fact that they were both pretty eager to jump on someone who even they admitted is probably town 'to gain more info'. Also from reading the earlier posts again, Jenter is posting a lot with prety much no content, possibly to try and stay off the radar.

Keeping my vote on Streeflo for now until further developments.

Where was I eager to jump? You must of course mean zakk_status, because

that's where my vote is

.

[Streeflo]

Well, it kind of bugs me when I'm being accused or something I don't think I did.

[Streeflo]

What are you being accused of that you don't think you did? Can you reference me the post number in which you were accused please?

Post #198. I'll even quote it for you. He's referring to me and Jenter

Mainly the fact that they were both pretty eager to jump on someone who even they admitted is probably town 'to gain more info'. Also from reading the earlier posts again, Jenter is posting a lot with prety much no content, possibly to try and stay off the radar.

Keeping my vote on Streeflo for now until further developments.

Jimmy R has stated he has feelings on me. Sure, I'll take that. I happen to love gut feelings. But here he says I have been eager to jump on someone who I admitted is probably town to "get more info".
Exactly where has this happened? Can you reference it please, because I have done no such thing. Nor have I ever remotely suggested to lynch someone to "get more info".

Hey~<3 Just got finished reading through.

Oman: I think Streeflo was being accused of being eager to jump onto my predecessor when he had said that I/zakk was probably town. And the one thing wrong with that is that prior to voting for zakk, he never mentioned him.

FoS: Jimmy R

I still have weird feelings about soupfly and Jenter. Gator seems to have been dropping off the radar, though I'll look back again just to make sure. TBS seems fairly fine to me, and I'm well on Oman. So other than Jimmy R, soupfly and Jenter have my highest suspiscion.

I did not say zakk was probably town. I said he reeked of opportunistic scum. I'd say there is a difference.

Unvote;

for now, because I don't expect to hold you responsible for your predecessor's actions.

Stop misquoting me guys. =[

[Streeflo]

FOS: Jimmy R

because his posts are making me feel pretty cautious. After some people questioned he vote on Streeflo, he unvoted and has quickly transitioned to a vote on Jenter.

I don't think he liked being in the limelight.

I'll echo this with the emphasis mine. You seemed hesitant to change your FoS into a vote on Jenter until after GatorGuy joined in on the bandwagon.

I'll reread Jenter soon.

[Streeflo]

Firstly, threatening to claim is a scummy look. Its like daring us to push you.

NO

I'm not sure enough to ask for a claim.

I don't know, I've done that my first few games, especially when I have a powerrole under my belt. You should claim at L-1 or when you feel the time is right.

I do see the case on Jenter, although I'm leaning more on GatorGuy right now.

Vote: GatorGuy

It's just that more people are doing PBPAs on Jenter. I'll switch votes if I see anything particularly scummy come up.

For the record, soupfly strikes me as town.
I got my eye on Jimmy.

[Streeflo]

Agreeded as well. however, with this as the case i would like to ask those with scum pair predictions how you can format those without full town present?

Cause the scum is probably a trio.

Going for Niv is not a good idea. I agree that he looks townish so far.

Jenter, it might be time for a roleclaim. You're at L-1.

I can see a connection between Jenter and Soupfly though.

[Streeflo]

::pokes mod::
Votecount please?

[Streeflo]

I

think

Gatorguy is at L-1 right now.

[Streeflo]

Whoops.

[Streeflo]

GATOR: I'd like to know what your hypothesis is now. Who do you think is the scum pair(/trio?)? Where do you rate everyone in scumminess?

scum trio:

Jenter, Thaiboxershorts (either that or he's just REALLY Paranoid) or Haut boy, Streetflo

OMGUS much?

[Streeflo]

I believe you.

Unvote; Vote: Jenter

[Streeflo]

EBWOP: But that was still a terrible play.

[Streeflo]

I'm rereading, but first of all, some quick things before I get through.

TBS, YOUR PLAN WAS SO COMPLETELY HORRIBLE I'M SURPRISED NO ONE VOTED YOU.

Secondly.

NO

DON'T KILL GATOR.

Thirdly, WHY IN THE WORLD DID YOU CLAIM JIMMY?!?!?!?!

And finally, do any of you who still think Jimmy and Gator are scum buddies have ANY idea how BAD of a gambit it is to claim masons with your scum buddy? DON'T WASTE A COP INVESTIGATION ON THEM FOR PETE'S SAKE.

[Streeflo]

Alright I got through, time to make my thoughts more organized.
First of all, EBWOP: There probably won't be a point in speculating a cop investigation seeing how our cop already died. (Might be outguessing mod, but not altogether an unreasonable thought).

Plan B) Lets not do this one yet. But if Gator's mason claims,

then assuming they are really masons and not scum

, we have two confirmed townies and can re-read on that.

I don't see how we could safely make that assumption. All we would know is that we have two linked players, but nothing of their alignment.

Which actually gives me an idea. If Gator's partner claims, we still won't necessarily know their alignment and might go ahead and lynch Gator anyway. But we'll find out Gator's alignment upon his death, and can safely assume that his partner is of the same alignment, so we

will

have a confirmed townie or confirmed scum at the beginning of Round 2. And if they turn out to be masons, the other one will be effectively demoted to vanilla townie, and therefore will not be a likely nightkill target. So no matter what happens, we'll begin Day 2 with some

very

valuable information.

So yes, I think I'd like to hear from Gator's partner.

I've gone over this plan in my head a few times, and I'm pretty sure it's sound. It it's not, please let me know and explain why.

NO! This is a HORRIBLE IDEA! Gator's partner needs to STAY QUIET and not make himself a NK target. Confirmed townies are EXTREMELY valuable in the endgame. If one of the masons died, their posts will have obvious links to each other. Masons don't vote for each other for example. There is no need for someone to claim a mason buddy.

I went over the numbers an you're right. If they hit the mason, they have a 0 chance of hitting a powerrole. Hit any other and its 1/7 or 2/7 depending on number of powerroles left.

I'd like to hear the mason claim ASAP from his partner.

NO! DON'T OUT ANOTHER POWERROLE WHEN IT'S NOT NECESSARY!

I don't know if this is a good idea

or not but I'm gonna take the plunge, because people are focusing their attention in the wrong places.

It wasn't.

EVERYONE UNVOTE JENTER!

This is easy to test if he is lying, we simply hit a majority and if there is no kill, its obvious.

Okay, heres my idea. If we get Jenter to kill Gator, then we have A) two confirmed innocents (Jenter and Jimmy) if he comes up town or B) one of each if he comes up scum (with Jimmy as the scum).

This way we don't waste our D1 lynch, but still get plenty of info.

Of course, if you believe Gator and Jimmy are both town...

I'm out of ideas...maybe soup or TBS? But I wouldn't wanna vig-kill anyone on a whim.

Kill: Gator

I could be wrong.

No! Why would you want to kill gator? If he was scum mason-claiming with Jimmy, scum has just dug their own grave. It's such a ridiculous gambit it's not even worth thinking about.

TBS, a confirmed vanilla is a huge asset. I think you deserve a FOS just for that plan of yours.

I believe Gator, so I'll

unvote

. I'm ready to vote for Jenter. He's at L-2 now...does everyone else agree that he's the plan for today?

YES! A logical post! QFT

I believe Gator and Jimmy because it seems like a huge risk for two scum to claim mason. I've definitely seen masons in mini-normals before; it's not that rare. Jimmy seems pretty pro-town, and Gator could very well have acted like the VI. I don't see any reason to lynch them today. If we do, then the other one gets killed N1 and we've lost two confirmed innocents.

You know, I've recently had a really strange vibe from you, Oman. You actually agreed with TBS' plan (which I thought a terrible idea), and then demanded a claim from Gator's mason partner ASAP. And now you want to kill Gator?

So...I'm very tempted to vote for Oman now. What do other people think?

YES! ANOTHER SANE POST! QFT

Ero, if you must vote for me, can you please get me vigged instead of Lynched,

I'd prefer you didn't waste D1 on a townie kill.

I sincerely hope that wasn't a claim with 0 votes on you...

I'm the biggest idiot! My plan is completely based on the idea that Jenter is a day-vig. When I thought over his claim, while he doesn't say it, he implies hes a night-vig.

Jenter can you confirm either way. Thanks

Unkill: Gator

Oh dear. That could explain a bunch of things.

Summary:
TBS came up with the most remarkably bad idea I've seen in a while, but later took it back by saying "Disregard my plan" although not necessarily for all the right reasons, but he gets points for that. Jimmy should not have claimed, but no use crying over spilt milk.

TBS and Oman is looking pretty bad to me right now. Both of them were rolefishing, and advocated a mason buddy claiming.

Oh yea, and erotomachia = town.

Vote: Oman
HoS: TBS

[Streeflo]

Yeah, I didn't want to claim and I realise it leaves me open to NK but it was a last ditch attempt to stop folks from lynching Gator so I felt I had to. Still hoping we have a Doc in the game.

Valid points re: Oman and TBS. Going to have a re-read now. TBS, do you have anythiing to say about this?

I'll answer Oman's thing here too. The true power of a mason is confirming another townie. I understand that when Gator claimed there was still suspicion, but there was no real need for the

other

mason to claim unless Gator was on the

verge

of being lynched (which he wasn't because I unvoted almost immediately).

I'm pretty familiar with the mason claiming thing, as I was a mason under a lot of pressure in Mini 428: Sicilian Mafia. However, it was the masons that won the game in the endgame. It's better for the other partner not to claim, because when it comes down to it, a person can find the partner from interactions during the day. Endgame masons are a nasty surprise for scum, but outting masons gives scum a higher chance to hit powerroles.

Honestly -- and I hope this doesn't come off as too OMGUS--

Faintly.

[Streeflo]

Town shouldn't be relying on powerroles to that extent anyway.

I'm sure that if two scum fakeclaimed mason, the town would eventually see that their "confirmed" masons were not doing crap with helping to lynch scum.

In the endgame, even those "confirmed" get a second-look. It'd be pretty cool to see a game where scum got away with a mason gambit though. Anyone have a link? XD

[Streeflo]

Don't direct town powerroles. kthxbai

[Streeflo]

Jenter, you should not publicize who you will kill as vigilante (next night phase)

cause mafia can then double your kill so that there will only be one death during the night phase.

this will indicate to everyone that you were lying and probably get u killed in D2. why would mafia do this? because then they can kill the most dangerous power-role left without possibility of doctor assistance. best is to not tell us who you NK and if two turn up dead then we'll know your role is legit.

I hope I'm understanding these roles correctly because this is first time i'm seeing vigilantes or masons. also, is it certain that vig wins with town?

This is stupid. You know mafia can choose to no kill and achieve the same result right?

[Streeflo]

Streeflo, Jenter has already stated he uses a machette. If it came they were "shot" then we'd know..unless Maz doesn't do that in his death scenes

Must have missed that part of the role claim.

As for not directing town powerroles...why not? I know not to direct cops or docs because thats mafia assiting and also has a few other things attatched to it (they often are smart enough to do it themselves). I don't understand not directing the vig..unless you are saying the mafia can direct it as well causing two "mislynches" per day (lynch and vig).

If mafia have a roleblocker, they can roleblock the vig if he is targeting a mafia member. If not, they do nothing.
If the vig was going to kill an innocent and the mafia planned on killing the same innocent that night, the mafia can just choose someone else and avoid what might have been a crosskill.

Streef: you actually think that the mafia will forgoe the night kill to incriminate jen, when they can just nk Jenter or one of the self coonfirming masons.....

No I don't.

[Streeflo]

That is, if the mafia pull it to frame Jenter, we'll say "hey they're pulling it to frame Jenter".

Unless Jenter really is a fake claiming scum.

I am undecided on most people now,

I'm either undecided or leaning towards pro-town on everyone except the confirmed townies.

That's helpful

[Streeflo]

I see Niv's last post as hopping onto a bandwagon. He completely dropped his case on me from post 393 without bothering to unvote, and I really don't understand the confusion with a one-shot vig.
TBS's vote also looks like bandwagon hopping, which is dangerous without a votecount.

Well, to give them credit, I guess you can't lynch someone without

some

bandwagoning, but it doesn't really feel right.

They are my top 3 scummiest players right now.

[Streeflo]

Our mod isn't really here...

Niv (4) Soupfly, Jenter Brolincani, Oman, Streeflo
Oman (3) Erotomachia, Niv, TBS
Jenter Brolincani (1) Haut Boy
soupfly (1) Haut Boy

I wanted an Oman lynch at first, but I suppose a Niv lynch make sense, too. And by looking at who's voting with me, I don't appear to be in good company.

We've got so many claims that I think we have a very good chance of catching scum (almost 50%). I'll be surprised if we don't get at least 1 scum with today's lynch and tonight's vig kill.

One quick thing before I reread, I'm still voting for Oman.

[Streeflo]

K.

Vote Niv

hammered.

LOL.

My thoughts: I still think Oman is the scummiest out of the three so my vote will stay on him.


And HOLD ON! What's with the unhumanly fast hammer on Niv? At least let him defend himself or claim or something. If you weren't confirmed Gator, your actions would have shot you up to the top of my scumlist.
How about instead of hearing from HautBoy before the day ends, we hear from Niv? That would be considerably more helpful don't you think?

[Streeflo]

Hm, don't mistake my intentions. I think Niv is scummy, but feel that your actions are scummier. By all means analyze my posts. I have nothing to hide.

I don't mind lynching any one of Niv, TBS, or Oman. However, I'm completely against the idea of hammering Niv before he can respond.

Gator...I'm fairly sure I believe the mason claim between him and Jimmy, but that doesn't change the fact that I think Gator is playing HORRIBLY.

QFT

[Streeflo]

Behold my setup speculation post!

I don't think there's a doc.
Could be dead wrong of course, but having a vig, cop, masons, AND a doc seems unlikely to the point of...

INSANITY

I've played a normal with one cop and 2 masons, and a normal with 1 cop 1 vig and 1 doc. Town feels overpowered in this scenario. Of course, if I'm right and there is no doc, then all of our powerroles have been outed during Day 1. Not particulary good > >.

@ Ergo: I like masons. They cut down the lynch pool by 2.

[Streeflo]

This rather feels like Erg0 got an easy way out of making a choice. Sure we get to learn something about Gator, but he's already (basically) confirmed.

I'd rather see Erg0 make the decision.

[Streeflo]

Jenter dead = no doc.

Vote: ThaiBoxerShorts

[Streeflo]

I have been advocating ThaiBoxerShort lynch from Day 1. I plainly stated my suspicions went in this order: Oman, Thai/Niv.
I don't think two votes is much of a problem, as mafia would have to be extraordinarily fast to land a 3-man quicklynch.

bummer

let's have a closer look at the lurkers

I don't think there are any more lurkers now, except Thai at the moment.

Erg0 --> not sure
Erotomachia --> sensed genuine town play from him...is he playing the town role to perfectly?
Streeflo --> Lurking since beginning
ThaiBoxerShorts --> As I stated earlier he's been playing very passive...posting enough to not be considered a lurker but not posting/voting in a way that would draw attention to him.
Haut Boy --> Lurked Bigtime (a replacement)

Okay, you accuse me of lurking since the beginning. I admit, I lurked at the beginning of the game, but only because I announced that my computer had exploded and I was trying to find a replacement. After that, I don't find it fair to be accused of lurking.

Please don't use the Too Townie arguement. kthxbai.
Both Erg0 and Erotomachia have fewer posts than me, but why not accuse them of "lurking"?

I'll

Unvote

reluctantly since you guys seem extraordinarily paranoid.

FoS: Soupfly

On a completely unrelated note, no lynch could be an option.

[Streeflo]

i'm traveling for the next couple of days.

at this point i must assume that mafia have had plenty of time to use gator and jimmy's votes to do a quick lynch. they haven't and so its a good bet that TBS is scum.

vote=Thaiboxershorts

see you in a a few.

I don't really like this reasoning...

[Streeflo]

Don't get me wrong, I think TBS is scum. I just don't really believe the idea that mafia could pile on that quickly without suspicion.

But the thread hasn't been active for a few days and no votes, so I guess your idea has some merit. It just doesn't bide well with me.

Really the only reason why I took my vote off TBS was because Erg0 wasn't comfortable with it. TBS has had a few days to answer, so

Vote: TBS

[Streeflo]

I don't think we lost. We probably should have had more discussion before the lynch though.

[Streeflo]

Well, not that we've ever actually questioned it, but at least Jimmy R is confirmed now.

I think we lost.

Or hes going to come up as scum and this is your attempt to look innocent because you know that

I don't know what to think about this, cause I usually don't get into WIFOM like this.

And what about ThaiBoxerShorts lurking the entire day away. Was it because he just couldn't reach a computer, or because he felt there was no way around his lynch?

[Streeflo]

You misunderstand me. I pointed out that

Well, not that we've ever actually questioned it,

but at least Jimmy R is confirmed now.

On a completely UNRELATED note,

I don't know what to think about this, cause I usually don't get into WIFOM like this.

I don't want think think about the WIFOM behind Erotomachia's statement. because he was "trying to look innocent" or whatever. It has nothing to do with Jimmy R besides the fact that he brought it up.

I don't know where your getting scum masons from, as I never even close to remotely suspected Jimmy R in the post. I'm not going to FoS you because it seemed like

maybe

a genuine misunderstanding, but

IGMEOY

.

[Streeflo]

TBS never made a post on the site the whole of day 2 so I assume that he either didn't have access or just doesn't like us any more.

FoS: Streeflo

for raising spurious points.

Do scum masons count as 'Normal' for the purposes of defining a Normal Game?

I was under the impression my spurious points were because you thought I was suggesting a scum mason pair. Which I wasn't.

Or was it about TBS not posting at all, which was not really a point, but rather me thinking aloud.

[Streeflo]

Well in that case, no to a scum mason pair.

I'll do a player by player thing like soupfly later on in the day.

[Streeflo]

That's what I meant though. No, I refuse the believe we would get screwed over like that.

[Streeflo]

I looked at HautBoy, and he hasn't made very many posts. 10 to be exact, and while they look protown enough, are hardly enough to make much of an impression. I agree with Jimmy R.

Erg0 strikes me as Godfather behavior. Town looking, but near the border. However, it is just a feeling, and on the whole, I would say he was townish.

Erotomachia seemed townie enough Day 1, but Day 2 stayed clear of the TBS wagon completely. This strikes me as very odd, scum-lurking behavior.

I didn't have internet access during the SoupFly incident during the very beginning of Day 1, so I'm not familiar with it. Ignoring that, I remember SoupFly being somewhat townie Day 1, and remember getting bad vibes from him near the end of Day 1 and maybe during Day 2. However, I like his post 574 so I'll have to look deeper into him.

[Streeflo]

Actually, more to the point there was no practical difference between the Godfather and the rest of the scum in this game, since the cop died before we even started. Ergo, no reason for the Godfather to behave differently to any other scum.

Oh right. Well then, you're pretty solid townie in my book.

Both HautBoy and Erotomachia made zero mention of the TBS wagon. HautBoy because he was lurking, and Erotomachia only had remarks during twilight.

[Streeflo]

I was disappointed in Day 1 for the same reasons, especially since Oman was acting very scummy. However, IMO, TBS stuck out sorely as the only scummy suspect still alive during Day 2. Caution be damned, there was no way 3 out of 3 of the scummiest people in the game would turn up town.

I

could

see Erg0 popping out as scum, but that doesn't say much because I could see everyone else as scum too. Erg0 would be dead last on my scum list.

I'm not sure what to go on with the other 3. I can see a HautBoy -- Ero pair easily, but I can't help but imagine SoupFly-scum. I can't really see Ero and SoupFly together though, so unless they are doing some crazy distancing strategy, I would count the other as townie if one showed up as scum. So as of right now, Ero and Hautboy first.

I'll pend my decision until HautBoy posts. As I've said before, his posts gave the impression of actually helping and giving content, but his main point against him is his lurking. Which he has done a

lot

of.

[Streeflo]

The fact that so many people want to lynch Haut Boy makes me think he's a townie. If he wasn't, I would have expected a "counter-wagon" to form.

Wait, I don't get this.

we're kinda screwed with Haut Boy because even with a replacement, what would we get out of the new person in such a short period of time. they would have to totally mess up in order to give away themselves if they are scum. we should have called for a replacement earlier.

one question: if haut boy was scum and hasn't posted on the site since the 11th, then wouldn't night 2 have lasted much longer? TBS was dead so that would have left two scum to vote. if hautboy was scum and didn't submit his vote (due to being away) then it should have taken longer to complete the night phase (due to initial wait and then prodding by mod to vote) and the mod probably would have sought a replacement. this would probably indicate that haut boy isn't really scum. does this make sense to anybody?

i hadn't thought of the replacement one like that. Our best hope is for HautBoy to come back then. > >

Your point on the night makes sense, but as a rule, I generally don't like the metagame night phase lengths. It's too complicated and there's a lot of hidden variables. By that same logic though, HautBoy wouldn't be a powerrole either, so if he claims one...

[Streeflo]

Interesting theory - so you're saying that if Haut Boy were scum then there'd be one person (his scumbuddy) defending him or at least trying to prevent him from being lynched.

Isn't that what

you're

doing?

Badabing!

[Streeflo]

HautBoy's lurked as exactly scum would, right through the mafia lynch Day 2. As said before, even if a replacement comes in or he comes back, there won't be anything that can be done to change our opinions about him.

SoupFly, I thought about it, and what Erg0 said is right. If there were two scum left and one of them was inactive, the other scum would send in the nightkill without a beat. They lost their right to have a say by not being active. It's not proper etiquette or anything, because they're not being proper by being active. I don't think your metagame strategy has much validity.

It is a gamble, but the question is whether it's a worse gamble than the alternative. My second option right now would be Erotomachia, and I can't see any way he'd be scum if Haut Boy is town so there's no practical difference between them.

qft

[Streeflo]

Uhoh, this game nearly went down to the second page.
::bumps:

HautBoy hasn't showed up yet, but I'll

Vote: HautBoy

and

FoS: Erotomachia

They scream scum-pair in my eyes.

[Streeflo]

Unvote;

I'll give Shanba a chance, but I doubt it's going to get anywhere.

[Streeflo]

Would you rather lynch someone who just replaced in after they spent the time to reread the game? It doesn't mean I'm not suspicious of him, I'm just unvoting for now.

[Streeflo]

He's in no imminent danger of being lynched

and I'd rather maintain the pressure than reduce it.

I don't feel the same way about this bolded part, but

FoS: Shanba

[Streeflo]

If I was forced to pick, I would choose Streeflo, for although I really liked his reaction to the mason claims and found it quite genuine Erg0 has played overall a much more solid game.

Jimmy R is almost certainly town. Nuff said.

Geh. Soupfly might not.

...<snip>...

Vote: Ergo, FoS: Soupfly, Streeflo

.

You say I'm scummier than Erg0, claim he played an overall solid game, and then say that SoupFly might not be town.
YET your vote is on Erg0?

I also don't like the way you assume Erotomachia is town just because he does not think you're scum right now. Opposite OMGUS?

So shanba, after soupfly told you that he also does not think you're scum (a point which you seemed to have missed), what is your current list of suspicions? I can't tell from the last post.

[Streeflo]

I can definitely see connections between shanba and Erotomachia, and they would be my most likely scumpair for the day.

For the record, I think saying "I think we lost" after the TBS lynch was a null tell. It has no significance because it can be WIFOMed so easily.

I like shanba's defense of himself against Erg0, but I still

don't

like the Erotomachia is town case.

Shanba, you admit your case against Erg0 is nonexistent, but once again, you're still voting for him. I don't understand your votes at all.

[Streeflo]

EBWOP: I think Erg0 is town mostly because of his very solid game so far in comparison to soupfly, Hautboy, and Erotomachia. He has been actively scum hunting and generally being protown.

[Streeflo]

Can we stop arguing over Erotomachia's twilight comment and get on with the game?
It's generating a lot of white noise, and that itself is enough to convince me that it is

still

a null tell.

[Streeflo]

Of course that's not the reason I think it's a null tell. As I've said before, it gets too WIFOM and I don't want to get into that guessing game. Note that I said this even before the discussion came about full-blown.

I'm just saying I'm getting tired of the arguing over a single point like that. Even if it was a scum or town tell, I doubt that one small post would make much of a difference in anyone's mindset.

[Streeflo]

I never voted shanba, you guys must be talking about HautBoy right?
As for jumping off quickly, I find it reasonable to unvote if someone got replaced.

As for stifling discussion, I don't know where you're getting at. It contributes little in my point of view, and if that is shanba's main town tell on Eroto, then he has no case at all.

[Streeflo]

Hautboy was lurky and contributed little. shanba is not.

[Streeflo]

you and shanba (as a scumpair), followed by soupfly. Erg0 as played a solid game, and I see no reason to suspect him at the moment.

[Streeflo]

I find shanba's solid defense to be a good thing, but as I've said before, shanba or Erotomachia is my choice.

[Streeflo]

Most people seem to be suspicious of my second vote on shanba. I admit it must have seemed very scummy since we probably in LyLo, but I did think shanba was scum at the time and no quicklynch did happen, so I'll stand by my vote.

I don't really approve of Jimmy getting the decision for lynch, not only because just because he's confirmed town means he has the best scum radar.
Also, to most of us, there are two confirmed towns: Jimmy and ourself. Jimmy also has more people to have to decide from. I'm not saying we should make anyone just decide the lynch for the town. I just think that's a bad idea in general.

However, if everyone else does decide that Jimmy should be the final call, I advise everyone not to quick lynch the target too fast as they will need to defend and claim and other such things.

[Streeflo]

In short, soupfly is literally all over the place, and this only makes me more uncomfortable. It's curious that Streeflo and Erg0 haven't noticed this and and actually regard soupfly as one of the most pro-town players.

I never said he was one of the most pro-town players. That honor would be given to Erg0. I regarded soupfly as less scummy than you and shanba, but in light of your case against the way soupfly throws his votes around so carelessly, I'll look back on it.

[Streeflo]

EBWOP: I honestly thought it was weird how soupfly's went from declaring Erotomachia HautBoy's scum partner, to declaring him "more town than any of us." I did not really notice anything else in that paragraph though.

[Streeflo]

Vote: shanba

for shaky arguments and switching his opinions about 50 times since he was replaced in.

HoS: soupfly

for doing the same, but acting less scummy. I reread, and even though he defended himself, it still looks like scum trying to find a safe target to land on.

I'm mostly suspicious of Erotomachia because a shanba/Erotomachia pairing makes perfect sense. If shanba comes up scum, Erotomachia will have my vote guaranteed.

[Streeflo]

I'm not sure what to go on with the other 3.

I can see a HautBoy -- Ero pair easily

, but I can't help but imagine SoupFly-scum. I can't really see Ero and SoupFly together though, so unless they are doing some crazy distancing strategy, I would count the other as townie if one showed up as scum. So as of right now, Ero and Hautboy first.

I've pointed out my thoughts of you two as a scumpair since early Day 2. You two easily topped my list of most-likely scumpairings.

Quick-lynching you would indeed be a foolish move, and it looks lyk Erg0 beat me to the vote.

HoS: Erotomachia

[Streeflo]

An awful lot of distancing between TBS and shanba.

Yeah...it wasn't really caution as much as it was helplessness. We have to lynch 3 scum in a row to win.

I have absolutely no read on Haut Boy

. And I don't want to lynch somebody just because he hasn't posted. He's been gone from the entire site for 11 days, so it's unclear whether he's actually lurking or just completely inactive.

...<snip>...

I also just realized that what I posted earlier about "one of the 3 being scum" is basically a truism. From everyone's perspective (except Jimmy's), there are 4 suspects, 2 of whom must be scum. So, yes, it's obvious, but my point was that

I wanted to focus on the 3 people besides Haut Boy

.

Mod

, can you prod or replace Haut Boy?

In which you defend HautBoy. In all honestly, townies defend scum too, but that doesn't stop it from looking very bad.

shanba was convinced that you were town based off of what was essentially one tell, which I thought was null.

You stayed completely clear from the TBS wagon, essentially lurking through the whole lynch.

Soupfly is still my top choice.

I've been re-reading and thinking about Erg0/Streeflo's votes for TBS and Shanba. Streeflo's votes are obviously more scummy. This is especially true in regards to Shanba - I don't see why a pro-town player would place a second vote on an inactive player at Lylo, opening up the possibility for a quicklynch.

Shanba's vote still doesn't make any sense to me at all. By trying to guess whether Erg0 or Streeflo are scum, you effectively have a 50% of catching scum. Since you've said that soupfly would be their only logical scum partner, then voting for him should give you a 100% of getting scum (according to your assumptions, which are that I'm town and that a Erg0+Streeflo scumpair is unlikely).

I find it sort of eerie how alike Erg0 and Streeflo are. They've voted for the same person, in the same order, for the past two days. They both share exactly the same suspicions today, and are pretty obstinate in those convictions. They haven't really analyzed each other or soupfly, focusing almost entirely on Shanba.

Soupfly, on the other hand, has jumped around a lot. In fact, I find it pretty astonishing how fluid his suspicions have been today. He's gone from calling me Haut Boy's scum partner to calling me "more town than any of us." (I'm starting to wonder whether he's "buddying up" to me right now.) He's gone from a tentative support of Erg0 and Streeflo's votes for Haut Boy, to calling Haut Boy town, to saying now that Shanba is the best place for his vote. And in between all that, he's even found the time to declare that he would be pushing for an Erg0 lynch.

In short, soupfly is literally all over the place, and this only makes me more uncomfortable.

It's curious that Streeflo and Erg0 haven't noticed this and and actually regard soupfly as one of the most pro-town players.

Most people have probably assumed that I take Shanba's innocence as a given. This isn't quite true. Shanba certainly might be scum - I just think that we have much better choices right now. The only thing that disturbs me is that Shanba's current vote is illogical: given his suspicions, he should be leaning toward soupfly.

Although

I would greatly prefer a soupfly lynch

, given the total lack of support for it (Erg0 and Streeflo seem like they won't budge, and soupfly obviously won't vote for himself) I would also support a Erg0 or Streeflo lynch. It's hard to tell which one is a better choice (I strongly doubt that they are both scum), but for the moment I think I'd prefer a Streeflo lynch.

The point is that we need to come to consensus.

The italicized portion is misrepresentation, which could be intended or not. Either way, me and Erg0 both responded to it.

Over the past few posts of this, you seem to be building a soupfly case centered around how he jumps around with his votes. However, when no one supports you, you jump right off and the next post you "made up your mind" and slapped a vote on me.

My main case against you is all the links between you and HautBoy/shanba, and lurking right through the TBS wagon.

[Streeflo]

EBWOP: Now that I think about it, even if I put another vote on Erotomachia, the scum would not quicklynch because we have an extra lynch due to the NK.

Vote: Erotomachia

[Streeflo]

I don't know what's more likely:
A doc that didn't protect Jenter N1, mafia choosing to no kill, or a NK immune townie.

But Erg0, you realize that for that speculation to be true, mafia would have to have targeted that townie to explain the no kill.

It makes absolutely no sense that a mafia would rather target a townie rather than Jimmy, the confirmed mason. Unless someone is playing games with us again...

[Streeflo]

Unvote

[Streeflo]

I'd have to say, your N1 action is pretty incriminating, but choosing to no kill to play a gambit like this seems unlikely. I believe you.

[Streeflo]

To me, the choice now is obvious. As I've said, Erg0 has played solidly and

generally

his thoughts agree with my own.

During Day 2, I was fully intending to vote TBS the first chance I got, but Erg0 got to it first.
Today, I was fully intending to vote Erotomachia the first chance I got but Erg0 once again got it down first.

In my eyes, there are three possible scum left with two possible mislynches.
Erotomachia, Soupfly, and Erg0.

I personally just don't see an Erg0-shanba scumpair. It just seems extremely unlikely.
If Erotomachia doesn't die tonight, we lynch him tomorrow. It would be foolish for scum to not kill Doc tonight otherwise.
That just leave soupfly, and between Erg0 and soupfly, it's soupfly.

Erg0 with his first votes on TBS and shanba, actively scum-hunting among other generally good play.
Soupfly seemed to suspect everyone and jump around constantly with his votes near the end of yesterday.

Vote: soupfly

[Streeflo]

*cough*WIFOM*cough*

I don't think it's that unlikely, but I do think it's unlikely to succeed.

I think scum would prefer a 4 person LyLo situation over fake claiming Doc and getting instantly lynched when he survived the night.

[Streeflo]

Hm, let's assume Eroto is scum fakeclaiming the doc.

So today there are 5 alive, 1 confirmed.
Say we mislynch soupfly, you, or me.

That leaves 4 alive, 1 confirm.

If Eroto chooses to NK Jimmy, town can lynch him immediately.
If Eroto NKs another unconfirmed townie, then the next day will be down between him and whoever he wanted to stay alive, with Jimmy being the deciding vote.

If Eroto chose to no kill, then... Ah, I see what you mean now.

I'm still banking on the fact that Erg0 is not scum for reasons already listed. Therefore from my position, we either win today or tomorrow.

[Streeflo]

Ugh, simul-posted with two people.

I wouldn't worry about being hammered. If Erotomachia hammered now, he'd be a dead man tomorrow.

[Streeflo]

Kill: Jimmy

[Streeflo]

You're unkillable aren't you Erg0.

[Streeflo]

Just kidding Erg0. XD

[Streeflo]

Yea, I thought this game was unbalanced toward mafia. I probably should not have received the Daykill. Even if I did, a nightstart was too much. The N0 Cop kill really hurt the town a lot, though essentially making TBS a goon.

Sorry I had to attack you and put so much pressure on you shanba. I discussed with Hautboy the night before that it was crucial to leave me alive so I can pull off the daykill.

However, after he started lurking I decided to help Erg0 start a lynch on him because I thought it would let me survive to endgame.
When you replaced in however, I had already pressured HautBoy too much. Backing off then would raise suspicions, for example when I unvoted as you replaced Erg0 mentioned "I don't like that unvote."

Good game all. Town really got screwed over really early. N0 cop kill, D1 mislynch, and losing a vig and a townie N1.

[Streeflo]

Ah well, I'm not complaining.

Thanks for modding Maz!

[Streeflo]

After TBS was lynched, I figured there

must

have been a doc still alive who didn't protect Jenter N1, because the game would have been unbalanced otherwise.

That's why we chose to kill Gatorguy instead of Jimmy. Because Gatorguy had suspicions on some mafia members, but most of the town regarded Jimmy as more level-headed.

After shanba was lynched however, I took the chance of trying to take out Jimmy so I could convince the town to no lynch and bring it down to 3 players. Then I could Daykill and win the game.

However, after that failed the plan was to try to get Erotomachia lynched due to connections with shanba. When Erotomachia claimed doc however, I nearly had a nervous breakdown. XD

[Streeflo]

I'm amazed no one accused me of buddying up with Erg0. I actually expected to be put on the spotlight for that.

[Streeflo]

I was scared to death that Maz had some sort of hidden rule that wouldn't allow me to Daykill in endgame, or someone would turn up Unkillable.

Yea, Maz confirmed that after I Daykill, I am revealed as scum and the vote count is reset. So it was only useful in Endgame or right when I was about to get lynched. Which is why I mentioned if you guys were going to lynch me, could for me to respond to claim.

[Streeflo]

I thought that Streeflo was going to no-kill Night 5 and then get me lynched the next day.

If I didn't have my daykill, this would have been what I had done.

I wonder who Jimmy would have voted for: Eroto, Erg0, or me.

And Erg0: Eroto or me.