Mini 455 - Mafia in Theoville - Game Over who won?

[Jalyn]

OK. I've done an initial read through of the thread but need to head to bed now. I understand that we are on a deadline, so I'll post something of substance as soon as possible in the morning.

Can I note a

bit

of sympathy for BM? It didn't take 30 minutes to get through this thread, it was closer to 4 hours.

(Also, thanks for the welcome)

Gah! This is taking forever to post and I need to sleep...

[Jalyn]

Huh. I've been doing my reread and take notes on Adel so far this morning (most votes at the moment, seemed like a good place to start.)

After my initial read, I expected this to be a quick reread through and a "Like the posting style, think the multiple bad ideas were well intentioned, but seems like an easy "unusual posting style" lynch, not anything valid." I was highly surprised by the reread, when I kept finding things I found suspicious.

(I'm just going to hit the two low points here as I'd prefer not to write novels.)

There better be a Doc and he better not fall victim to a recursive logic bomb and protect a random townie rather than our (possible!) cop! We don't want to give scum any more ideas or point out any further clues to assist them in their NK.

I disagreed with the "direct the vig" plan, but hadn't noticed the explicit doc directions that were buried in one of the first reactions to Guardian's cop claim/outing. I certainly hadn't noticed the "don't even think of taking the chance that the mafia won't strike the claimed cop but hit someone else, but protect the claimed cop no matter what" stance. And then follows the "Hey, scum, don't try killing Gaurdian because the doc will be protecting him", with "don't give scum clues on who to night kill."

The mafia, in trying to predict the actions of the autonomous individuals playing our power roles will always run into a recursive logic error (WIFOM) so they will never be able to confidently predict who a P.R. will target. Once again, though the logical fallacy of over-simplification, you are overstating your case. That you didn't mention the possibility of there being a mafia roleblocker, the biggest hole in my plan, suggests that:

1. you are mafia and you know that there is a roleblocker
or
2. you are mafia and since there isn't a roleblocker you didn't think of the possibility.

It's been a while since my last logic course and I don't have any of my school books in the office with me, so I can't give this a name, but it's a definite falacy. False Dillema, maybe? Anyway, offering two alternative options when there are actually several=bad logic. For example, "Didn't think of mafia roleblockers because he doesn't have a clue why they would be problematic to your plan." Which, by the way "luck" is how they could mess up your plan? Er, because it would make more sense to randomly roleblock people in the hope of hitting the vig than to roleblock one of the claimed cops. And because that has anything to do with your plan and any roleblocker couldn't "luckily" roleblock a vig without the town following your plan. That whole exchange just confused me.

Moving on to Nanosauromo. I hope that one doesn't take me another three hours to slog through. (And no, that wasn't a shot at Adel, I'm working at the same time and can't devote all of my attention to the important things in life.)

[Jalyn]

Another strange one. Nanosauromo pinged hard when I read the entire thread but nothing stood out as suspicious when I read through just his posts.

Moving on to MeMe:

Finally one that felt the same in isolation as it did in the full read. I don't see any reason to suspect MeMe at this point and am not particularly surprised that the only person that is voting for her is BM.

Nekka-Lucifer only had two game related posts and I don't actually understand either one. Once he started speaking BM seems to be quite BM at the moment. As for the lurking... I know how long it took me to just read the entire thread and then go back and do some analysis. I think it was probably not the best move to replace into a game with a large thread and a deadline looming, but having done so, it makes sense to be active in threads that he didn't need to read 20 pages to get into and not here. Can I quote him in other games as saying that he isn't posting content there either?


As to our two cop issue..
I'm all over the "this can wait until tomorrow and results reports to deal with" tactic.


Now, I'm in an interesting position. In the original read, I didn't find Adel suspicious at all and did find Nanosauromo so. In reading posts in isolation, the exact opposite is true. I don't know which impression to weight more heavily.

I'm going to give this some more thought before voting and see if another skim over gives me anything else.

[Jalyn]

Sorry for not being back for so long. I think Adel is the better lynch of the two possible but as the votes stand, I'm not going to vote that way. (It would only take one other vote to push it to a tie and no lynch, which would be the worst possible result.) I don't see Nanosaurom as being particularly scummy, though, so I'm not voting that way.

So, what I'm going to do is check the thread again right before the deadline to see if an Adel lynch is possible at that point without my making a no lynch possible.

MeMe, to your objection, I expect that Theo would be a careful enough mod to react to in thread questions the same regardless of the allignment of the person that asked it.

[Jalyn]

In that case, I'll make my preference official and

vote: Adel

as it is highly unlikely that someone could bring about a no lynch without outing themselves as scum.

[Jalyn]

Sorry, I didn't mean to hold up the whole game!

The things that caught my attention:

Sorry I didnt have time to post my result right away, but I Investigated Meme and got innocent. My sanity is unknown. Guardian, Im sure you investigated me, but keep in mind, both of our Sanities are unknown.

To me this sounds like YB knows that if Gaurdian investigated him he'd get a guilty result and he's preemptively defending himself.

I see your point. ummm.... but I'm not scum Other than about a 50-50 shot of me being scum (Guardian has ~50% chance of being sane) who else is there any evidence on? I feel like pressuring players who were on the NanoS bandwagon, and honestly Eco would be my first choice of who to pressure if he wasn't killed last night.

I'm no paragon of math, but 50% assumes that sane/insane/paranoid/naive are equally as likely, which is simply not the case. I haven't played a lot of mini games, but are two cop games at all typical? (I'm not asking about the definition of "normal" just how likely this scenario is to be.) It seems much more likely that one of our "cops" is no such thing.

4. Scum choose to kill a player they thought was obviously innocent.
5. Scum thought Ecto was obviously innocent because he acted in what they considered a very townie way.
6. At least 1 Scum player, probably the most influential, acted in a way very similar to Ecto, which is why that scum player has not been under suspicion recently if at all.

I read quickly, did I miss where it was determined which kill was scum? I thought that the kill types tended to indicate that BM (shooting) was the scum kill, so why is Adel certain that it was actually Ecto?

Adel is lynched today it won't prove either of our cop's sanity btw .. Unless of course Guardian investigates a pro-town role that gets killed tonight .. Otherwise if he gets another guilty tonight it could mean he's either sane or paranoid.

Huh. Is it just me or does this post completely assume the result of lynching Adel? Gaurdian won't know his sanity because he could still be Sane or Paranoid - no chance of Insane, Nanook?

Vote:Adel

I don't believe that we have multiple cops in this game. YB's unprompted defense of "please remember you might be insane" struck me as off. This makes Gaurdian more likely to be the true cop.

Add to that the fact to Adel's power role directing yesterday, overstating the likeliness of non-sane cops in a mini game (again, unless I'm missing something, if so, please tell me), and her seeming to have knowledge over who made which kill and I'm in for a vote.

Nanook's presumption that Adel will be guilty is just an interesting kicker at this point.

[Jalyn]

unvote

Not me.

[Jalyn]

As I said before, I doubt that there would be two cops in a mini, sanity issues or no sanity issues. (Again, if I'm off in this assumption, let me know.)
No counter-claim pretty much confirms Adel as vig, making YB the cop.

vote: Gaurdian

[Jalyn]

I think you are off in this assumption, and I think that you are too good of a player, too careful of a reader, and too skilled a rhetorician to sincerely believe in such a reason for a vote.

FoS:Jalyn

Um. Thank you? I think?

Jalyn, if your join date is not reflective of your experience, let me know, but I have read at least one or two mini games with two cops of varying sanities, and I've only read about 30 games.... Surely you have more to go on at this point?
You are getting further away from YL and much closer to ChaosOmega, Streeflo, and Nanook in my list of possible scum.

Er. Well. I'm not particularly impressed with the "how experienced are you?" thing, but... My join date is pretty much non-reflective of anything, other than the fact that I still remembered my password when I came back to the site 4-5 years after losing track of it.

That's not to say that I'm a newbie, I've played on other sites and one of the few games I played here before being gone was Quercitron's invitational mini. (I believe that I was lynched day 1, but I can't find the posts in my "find all posts" so I'm not sure.)
Other than that, I was in Meet Your Maker mini for all of one post before being night killed.
I've joined Friends & Enemies since this one.

How's that for full disclosure?

Anyway, could you point me to the games you are thinking of if they are completed and you remember them?

[Jalyn]

Do you mean sane, YB? I thought you got an innocent on MeMe and she just turned up town. I don't know that we should be voting anyone quite that quickly. I guess with the vig still standing we're not quite at lynch or lose yet, but still.

Adel, did you vig MeMe or YagamiLight? (and why?)

So, we're at:

YB - cop
Adel - vig
Streeflo - cop innocent result (could be godfather, but certainly not the play today)

Leaving:
Nanook
Jalyn
ChaosOmega

as the remaining possibilities.

[Jalyn]

Huh? So you got a "guilty" result on Streeflo, not an "innocent" but you thought you were insane so you thought guilty meant innocent?

[Jalyn]

Well, that's easy.

vote: Streeflo

[Jalyn]

That's lynch -1, do we want to go into night without any discussion?

I don't think I'll have time tonight, but if we're still at day tomorrow, I'll try to do an analysis of ChaosOmega and Nanook. Someone else should probably do one on me. (I'm pretty sure I can't be impartial about myself )

I would think Adel and YB are both completely confirmed at this point, so no need to analyze.

[Jalyn]

unvote

OK. Wasn't expecting THAT.

Streeflo: If you are a tracker why did you seem to believe that we also had TWO cops? Wouldn't that make the town incredibly over powered? You admit that you should have tracked one of the two cops night one. Why did you choose Adel?

YB: Why revote Streeflo already? I thought we were holding off until we had discussed who was the last mafia. Streeflo's claim shouldn't have actually changed anything for you. You already knew that he was guilty based on your cop result, a fake claim wouldn't make him any more guilty.
Basically, we're at either YB or Streeflo are scum, they can't both be innocent based on YB's claimed result. Our action here is obvious, we lynch Streeflo and if he is innocent, Adel vigs YB.

I know I promised an analysis of Nanook/ChaosOmega and I'll get to that as soon as possible. I do have RL things to do today.

[Jalyn]

YB, there can't be a tracker and a cop. One of you or Streeflo HAS to be guilty based on YOUR claimed result!

I do find it interesting that tracker/vig/cop/doc is farfetched but cop/cop/vig/doc seemed just fine to you.

[Jalyn]

YB, you weren't confirmed you were uncontested, there's a difference. Adel is confirmed because we can see that we have a vig and everyone else has said that they are NOT the vig. We don't KNOW that we have a cop, we all just assumed it.

I reitterate:

YB: Why revote Streeflo already? I thought we were holding off until we had discussed who was the last mafia. Streeflo's claim shouldn't have actually changed anything for you. You already knew that he was guilty based on your cop result, a fake claim wouldn't make him any more guilty.

Adel, I think everyone has weighed in with at least indetermination at this point. What do you think?

[Jalyn]

I'm a townie.

One of Streeflo/YB HAS to be scum. YB claimed a guilty result on Streeflo. YB is either telling the truth or not. If he's lying, YB is scum. If he's telling the truth, Streeflo is scum. There is no situation where both YB and Streeflo are innocent.

So, the numbers will be:

Lynch YB/Streeflo, get it right: 4:1, MNK: 3:1, VNK: 2:1, 3:0 NoVNK: 3:1
Lynch YB/Streeflo, get it wrong: 3:2, MNK: 2:2, VNK: 2:1 - because you know exactly who to vig.

YB/Streeflo - I'm seriously torn here. It seems awfully dangerous for two out of three scum to claim cop on day one. At the same time, YB hasn't been the most convincing cop. He didn't counter-claim Gaurdian, instead he attacked anyone that suggested that he was faking. Today he cleared Streeflo until I explained that his sanity had been confirmed by MeMe turning up innocent and reminded him that he had claimed an innocent result on her.


Nanook:

!

Coultn't sleep at all, so I thought I'd post. Often, ChaosOmega, new scum will just vote without saying anything, like you did. People might get suspicious of you for that (I am a wee bit); I think it's better to just say that your vote is random in the future so people don't have a reason to jump on. My 1/50 of a dollar .

Originally Guardian voted for Streeflo .. then he posted the above. Maybe it was a mistake, maybe it was planned to help him later in the game, who knows .. but the above post includes my reasoning.

12 hours before Nanook "outed" Guardian's cop breadcrumbing, he specifically quoted it as "his reasoning" even though there was no reasoning in Guardian's post. Perhaps making sure that people looked at it again, hoping that he wouldn't have to be the one that brought it up, tying him and Guardian together? Then once he realized that no one else would bring it out, he did so himself?

One FINALDIPEEDAPEEDOSEY one... (lol) I don't see any hidden Docs

... And this makes you a sad Puss n' Boots? If so, why?

If the doctor did this, that would just be total anarchy on the game. Plus, if I had noticed such a thing, I don't think I would announce that I saw it (Un-like the cop bit anyway).

Meant to add that earlier .. Meme reminded me with her vote.

This is interesting. Nanook has no problem outing a "cop" but wouldn't out a doc if he were to see one. His given reason for outing Guardian was that he was afraid everyone had seen the breadcrumbing anyway. This doesn't exactly jive with having reposted it in quote form, making it even more obvious. Then, if a doc were to do the same thing, he wouldn't be concerned with the fact that everyone would have seen it, but wouldn't expose it.

I can't say which of YB or Streeflo I believe more then the other. YB has been constant with himself being a cop, and Streeflo has been pretty quiet, but his results still sound right to me. I could see Guardian and YB doing a cop/cop gambit only because they seem to be pretty close on the site and if they're mafia I don't think they'd hesitate to perform it.

Followed by:

Also, I know that I'm not scum, and I get vibes that Streeflo isn't either, so I say go with YB, Jalyn, or CO.

in the same post! The only problem here is that I can't decide if he's trying to protect Streeflo or distance from YB...

Based on:

If Streeflo is town

I'd say it's YB. A cop would KNOW that Streeflo was guilty and wouldn't allow for an "if he comes up town" bs.

I'll go back and look at ChaosOmega shortly, but I think we're looking at Nanook + either Streeflo or YB.

[Jalyn]

As promised, I went back and looked at ChaosOmega. I don't see anything in particular with his posts that trips any warning lights for me, other than outing Adel as the vig - which at least came while there was a bandwagon on him as opposed to out of the blue like the Nanook/Guardian thing.

The ChaosWagon is interesting though. Guardian and both Streeflo/YB were on that wagon - would both of his mafiamates bus him? Then again, I suppose the only other wagon in town was Guardian himself...

As to YB's last post... You claim to have a guilty result on Streeflo but now you want to lynch Nanook?

[Jalyn]

vote:YogurtBandit

I just don't see a cop with a guilty result moving his vote around like he's been doing.

Adel, if YB is scum, you're going to vig Nanook? And if he's town, Streeflo?

[Jalyn]

I'm rereading the thread again and will post with my thoughts when I complete that task.

(Theoper_COD looked lonely talking to himself.)

[Jalyn]

OK. I'm thinking it's Nanook.

Check this out:

Sun Jun 03, 2007 8:47 am

Coultn't sleep at all, so I thought I'd post. Often, ChaosOmega, new scum will just vote without saying anything, like you did. People might get suspicious of you for that (I am a wee bit); I think it's better to just say that your vote is random in the future so people don't have a reason to jump on. My 1/50 of a dollar .

Originally Guardian voted for Streeflo .. then he posted the above. Maybe it was a mistake, maybe it was planned to help him later in the game, who knows .. but the above post includes my reasoning.

Posted: Sun Jun 03, 2007 12:54 pm

YogurtBandit, by yours, do you mean ChaosOmega's? Or do you mean Ertomachia's vote on ChaosOmega?

Nanook, the logic "if you are random voting, then say so" can most definitely be applied to Streeflo, but I did mean for it to apply to ChaosOmega's posts at the time.

Unvote: Streeflo, Vote: Guardian

... Better?

Posted: Sun Jun 03, 2007 7:45 pm

YogurtBandit, by yours, do you mean ChaosOmega's? Or do you mean Ertomachia's vote on ChaosOmega?

Nanook, the logic "if you are random voting, then say so" can most definitely be applied to Streeflo, but I did mean for it to apply to ChaosOmega's posts at the time.

Unvote: Streeflo, Vote: Guardian

... Better?

Seems like you're getting a bit desperate.

I dunno about the rest of you, but so far Nanook seems like the scummiest player in the game.

I'm far from desperate Nano .. Don't have a worry in the world right now. The vote I've placed is possibly in the right place for right now .. I'd say more, but I'm not too sure now is the right time. I think some know what I'm talking about .. although maybe not .. I'm even a bit confused at all the logic of it myself, which is why I can't decide between streeflo or guardian, but for now guardian will keep my vote.

Posted: Sun Jun 03, 2007 8:28 pm

C

oultn't sleep at all, so I thought I'd post.

O

ften, ChaosOmega, new scum will just vote without saying anything, like you did.

P

eople might get suspicious of you for that (I am a wee bit); I think it's better to just say that your vote is random in the future so people don't have a reason to jump on. My 1/50 of a dollar .

Originally, I thought to myself that Guardian was completely foolish for doing such a thing on the first page of this game .. I don't know why people think it's a great Idea to claim something so early on, especially the supposed 'cop'.

I don't know if it was intentional or not, but I tend to think it's more so a mafioso move to set them selves up later in case they get into a bind so that they have a defense later, like If you read my earlier game post you'll see that I claimed cop or something.

Again this could have been something obviously mistakened for all I know, and if you truly are the cop, well then I apologize.

I voted streeflo originally b/c of guardian's not so random vote early on. I then changed my vote due to the confusion it seemed to cause. I had nothing more on Streeflo then that ..

Nanook quoted Guardian's breadcrumbs three times before he "outed" him as the cop.

I've been confused as to where this whole "cop roleclaim" thing came from, so I read back through the thread and found this, the post where it all began?

C

oultn't sleep at all, so I thought I'd post.

O

ften, ChaosOmega, new scum will just vote without saying anything, like you did.

P

eople might get suspicious of you for that (I am a wee bit); I think it's better to just say that your vote is random in the future so people don't have a reason to jump on. My 1/50 of a dollar .

Originally, I thought to myself that Guardian was completely foolish for doing such a thing on the first page of this game .. I don't know why people think it's a great Idea to claim something so early on, especially the supposed 'cop'.

Excuse me, but, WTF? It seems like Nanook is reading into things a bit

too

much. I still think Nanook and Gaurdian are both mafia. Nanook's "ousting" of Gaurdian as an important pro-town role (to help ensure his survival) ties into their voting together. Nanook's looking scummer by the minute. (Or hour, whatever.)

Actually this isn't all that uncommon. I've done it before, and so have others. It could easily be just scum preparing ahead of time of course.

Anyway, I now agree that Nanook could possibly be town. As others ahve stated, seeing a cop breadcrumb like that as scum, he would probably keep it a secret and save it for the NK. Exposing the cop just draws potential doc protection.

However, exposing the cop as town was still a really bad move.
I'll

Unvote;

for now, but IGMEOY. I still find it funny how he assumed the game started in Night, although in the rules clearly say Day Start.

Two things:

Firstly

, I should be in bed now, but I am not. That will be remedied immediately after this post.

Secondly

, being objective as possible, your scenario still seems ludicrous to me. Nanook having planned this exact scenario, and then PM ing me when the mod said that all that he did was not specifically disallow night PM roles to PM pregame, and then Nanook PMing me in less than an day and me getting the PM and agreeing to it while I was on vacation in Spain, and me being confident enough and clever enough to breadcrumb in such a way that Nanook could easily find it, and Nanook being scum but acting so perfectly as he is doing right now.... I really, really, don't buy it.

It is possible, just like me getting a 1000$ check in the mail tomorrow is possible...

I see one of the only upsides of Nanook outing me as us getting him as a very likely townie in the process. Your theory seems to be grasping at straws... but maybe, and this is a big maybe, this is you just trying to reason everything through in a way that makes sense to you.... Do you at least see why I think you coming up with this is scummy?

Fyi, I learned what breadcrumbing was by reading lots of games (maybe two or three instance of breadcrumbing came up in 20-30 games) and in one in particular the cop breadcrumbed and that was crucial to the town winning... Or at least it came up near the endgame, I am not 100% certain the town won. Anyways, I thought it was a good strategy and I figured I would try it. Your whole scenario seems... crazy to me. About the only town like thing I draw from your scenario is that you aren't calling for me, the claimed cop, to be lynched, to test your theory....

Yeah, that's me picking option A.

An interesting thing that I note is that DogMom also chastised me about this, and then said that she couldn't see Nanook-scum or Guardian-scum .

Sorry - I wasn't clear. I

meant

that I couldn't see you two as scumbuddies, doing this as a concerted / coordinated effort.

Jury's still out on which one of you I think is scummier. I'm thinking Nanook, but only because I'm inclined to believe your claim...

FOR NOW

.
But YB has a lot of 'splainin to do, so I'm going to set aside the "Guardian / Nanook" thing for now.

I will try and say this as concisely as possible. DogMom, I find you as really scummy for this post. Though you denied it later, you strongly implied in this post that one of either Nanook or I must be scum. You set it up as an either or choice, and said you weren't sure which was scummier - either I, the at that time only claimed cop, or Nanook, who outed the at that time only claimed cop... The way you phrased it makes it seem to me like you were trying to paint a target on both our backs even though it at the time seemed obvious to me that we both were town.

Official

FOS: DogMom

for this.

NanoS, I think it is typical to breadcrumb early; breadcrumbing midgame would suggest (to me, at least) that I was scum that thought of doing it later, and was not doing it because I am a cop.

This is a hard point for me to get across, because I don't find Nanook particularly scummy. But I am not at all tied to or married to Nanook. If Nanook acts scummy then we should lynch him. If he acts townlike, then we should not. People keep bringing up a tie between Nanook and I, and I want to make it clear that no such tie exists; if he turns up scum I don't want people rehashing Adel's theory on me.

Erotomachia, I see where you are coming from on saying Kelly checking the setup makes two cops plausible, but outguessing the mod always seems to work out badly. I don't understand you going beyond that and defending YB though; why do you not want to hold him up to public scrutiny? If it looks like he is town, then I might buy, at least temporarily, that there are indeed two cops in the game. Be if not, I can definitely see him as scum fake claiming. Two cops in a mini normal is indeed rare.

ChaosOmega, I still want your thoughts on DogMom and YB. BM, I still want to hear what you think about Adel.

The above posts are from day 1, when Adel was spouting her theory that Nanook & Guardian were playing a gambit together. All of them are trying very hard to keep a strong separation between Guardian/Nanook.

...snip...
Night 2 I targeted Nanook and he didn't do anything. I was undecided between Jalyn and Nanook, but Nanook had claimed townie and if he had an action he would be lying scum so I chose him.
...snip....

This is from yesterday, where Streeflo claimed tracker and "cleared" Nanook.

I'm here guys ..

I don't have a pbpa yet on either Jalyn or CO due to their being a busy holiday and what not, I have read the posts for today though.

I can't say which of YB or Streeflo I believe more then the other. YB has been constant with himself being a cop, and Streeflo has been pretty quiet, but his results still sound right to me. I could see Guardian and YB doing a cop/cop gambit only because they seem to be pretty close on the site and if they're mafia I don't think they'd hesitate to perform it.

I can't really defend myself much as I am just a townie with no abilities what so ever. Me outing Guardian proved to be the right thing as he eventually turned up scum. I don't suggest a kill of myself tonight, especially if YB is killed and shows up as scum. Same thing for Streeflo actually as neither of them have total confirmation in my eyes.

As for Adel following what Guardian stated in his post ... I'm still against it, and would be if it were Streeflo and Jalyn's names included in it instead of mine. I don't care how pro-town like he was, I just wouldn't risk it. Also, I know that I'm not scum, and I get vibes that Streeflo isn't either, so I say go with YB, Jalyn, or CO. Of course I'm not going to suggest myself as a lynch.

And here Nanook throw his support to the YB lynch without actually voting and getting his hands dirty.

I noted a couple of things about ChaosOmega as well, I'll throw that in my next post.

(Now I get to talk to myself instead of Theo)

[Jalyn]

As for ChaosOmega, there's the infamous "trying to out the vig" post:

Seeing talk of a vig, I remembered that there was mention of a vig before. I went back to see who said it:

Here is another crazy idea I just thought of: In addition to or regular vote in the regular format we also post VigKill: Player ZZZZZ and un:Vigkill.

I thought the vig thing was a good idea, & I still do

I thought it was somewhat suspicious at the time, but maybe she was trying to get town input on who to vig without blowing her cover.

I'm going off the assumption that the mafia killed Erotomachia and the vig killed Battle Mage. So how did Adel feel towards Battle Mage?

he is using lurking as a deliberate tactic.

Always lynch the liar. The dude has posted many many posts elsewhere since he replaced into this game.

I expect to find at least two scum among YogurtBandit, Nanosauromo, ChaosOmega, and Battle Mage.

I find it odd that BM has the time to defend himself, post links, scan the thread often enough to reply to MeMe, ect... while he still doesn't have time to post an analysis of the game.

More noise along the lines of "I don't have time to post; I'm being mis-represented" doesn't help the town, and makes you look both scummy and insincere.

I see BM as possibly setting himself to drop a hammer vote.

And the kicker...

You are a liar. You said you didn't have time to post, then you posted quite a bit. you said that you would post a long analysis on Friday, now you "don't have access" and it is now Saturday.

I hoped you'd type out some magick words like "aecimagbnihititia aioivonv" that would illuminate this game and break it wide open for town. Instead we get this post from you. Acting pretty much as I had predicted. I thought the degree to which N-L was lurking was scummy. I'm glad your active behavior confirms my hunch.

How many other players found my post directed at BM regarding his vote on MeMe to be "One of the scummiest in the game?" I can think of a few I've written which are scummier.

Guardian and BM have both posted inditing me. See how Guardian's posts are really critical but are factually accurate? BM's aren't. Guardian's vote for me isn't a reason for me to think he is scum.

That would also explain why the vig didn't take out the person who got the next to most amount of votes to be lynched...Adel.

Day 2, he said:

The 3 people I am most suspicious of are Guardian, Streeflo, and Jalyn.

Guardian: Breadcrumbing early is fine, but you did it multiple times in the first couple of pages. With that many, they were bound to be found sooner rather than later. Also, doing it that much that soon could be seen as you wanting someone to find it early, so you could claim cop and not have much suspicion on you in the beginning.

Reading over the second day again, I think you knew Adel was vig before I posted anything about it. When I posted it, both you and Adel played it off. It was understandable for her to do so; she wanted to cover up the fact she was vig. You, on the other hand, just wanted it to be swept under the rug so Adel could still be lynched. You said that you noticed it as well, but figured she wouldn't do that after your breadcrumbing. Also, having you later suggest that no one counter claim her has already been shown to be a bad move. As soon as that was pointed out, all you did was go "MeMe is smart, listen to her, I don't know what I'm doing". And you saying this:

me as scum breadcruming alone is silly

is pretty ridiculous. Why can't scum breadcrumb? And if that's the case, why wasn't all your doubt of Adel absolved after you noticed her breadcrumbs?

Streeflo: You seem very bandwagony. As soon as someone is seen to be suspicious, you jump on them. Right after MeMe voted for Guardian and explained why, you immediately put a FoS on him. After people mention that what I did was suspicious, you put a vote on me. After Nanook was confused about whether the game started in day or night, you voted him. And most of your votes have been followed with quick unvotes, like you don't want to seem as the reason someone got lynched. After you said that that you believe Adel is vig, you posted this:

I'm pretty sure Adel is the one who killed BM, regardless scum or vig.

I don't like that litle thing tagged on at the end. Are you trying to say you still think Adel could be scum? It was said casually, like you were just trying to plant a seed of doubt.

Jalyn: I don't have much of a case on you. While DogMom was playing, I was a little suspicious of her, but her posts had good content. When you replaced for her, though, the good content stopped coming. Maybe you replaced, saw you were scum, and decided to lay low. I know, it's a guess, but I think YagamiLight and Nanook are more innocent than you, and if Guardian's scum, that means YogurtBandit is a sane cop and MeMe is most likely town.

Day 3, he said:

While I have to believe that YogurtBandit is a sane cop, him mixing up his supposed sanities and furiously arguing that Adel is not a town vig sits uneasy with me.

As for Nanook and Jalyn, I can't find anything really scummy about either of them.

Which is fine. Adel is confirmed, as is YogurtBandit. Lynching Streeflo-scum today would mean there is 1 scum in the group of me, Nanook, and Jalyn. Lynch one, have Adel vig another one, and have YogurtBandit investigate the third. Even if 2 townies die, it's still 2 to 1 in favor of town.

I'll be back later tonight.

Which isn't much, but he was willing to say that he suspected me on day 2 but not on day 3. Also interesting is that he pointed to two of the three scum. - I'm not sure if that's a point against or a point for, honestly.


Like I said, I think it's Nanook. I'm grasping at straws to see anything that points to ChaosOmega being scum, but I figured I'd throw out the little things that I did see. K, I'll shut up now and let you two give your analysis.

[Jalyn]

I've been waiting for:

I'm not doing any sort of pbpa on these two players ...

I will however take a look at the posts again and see what I can gather, but I doubt highly that it will be much as neither player was ever really active.

Of course we can't no lynch. We have three days left, right?

[Jalyn]

vote:Nanook

[Jalyn]

This close to London, I am definitely heading to the pub now. I'll raise a pint to my fallen comrades from there.

I don't think we're able to lynch the cop on day 3 if I hadn't had to walk YB through to Streeflo being guilty. (Which, by the way, was a bizarre feeling. "Huh. YB IS insane. Wait, no, he got an innocent on MeMe. The only cop is niave!? Oh. No, Damn, there goes Streeflo.") The confusion is probably actually a town tell, but if the scum can make it look like he's tripping over his lies... well, they get to lynch a cop.

Adel - I also don't think that BM was a bad night 1 vig.

As a note, my "kill MeMe" night one thought process was "MeMe's never going to buy the two cop thing and will be able to convince the town. If we kill her tonight, we might be able to make a go of Gaurdian's claim"