Open 41-Quicklynch Nightless GAME OVER!, before 492

[DeathSauce]

Woo, game on!

I think discordian was just clarifying to the rest of us that we are facing 3 scum in this game, it is helpful to know what you're up against.

I agree that random voting is dangerous in this situation. We do need to get the game moving somehow, though. Any ideas?

[DeathSauce]

I'm thinking that "reckless" play is not a good strategy in this type of game. We're on page one here with around 5 players that haven't even posted yet. You are on a very thin branch, I don't think "proving your point" is worth losing a townie on page one, assuming you are town.

[DeathSauce]

[quote=kaosfere]
the WIFOM will become very thick.
[/quote]

We can WIFOM your hammer vote until the cows come home, but the fact is that someone that is trying to throw the game into a WIFOM argument is trying to prevent the town from finding scum.

HUGE FoS: kaosfere

[DeathSauce]

I believe that given enough time and rope, scum will self-identify, and I'd rather see us have more time for arguments so that the scum can out themselves

This is rich coming from the guy that hammered a townie with his first post.

I also picked this sentence out of your explanatory post:

I agree that scum-won't-hammer is a dangerous precedent to set, and I wanted to shake it up.

Something about this sentence, it seems like you are admitting that you are scum. Maybe I am reading it wrong, but coupled with your latest post it makes me revert to my previous thinking, that a player that is interested in throwing us into a WIFOM argument is not really interested in hunting scum.

I am going to elevate my FoS.

vote: kaosfere

[DeathSauce]

We need to take a deep breath here or we'll lose this game in 6 pages. I certainly did not expect kaosfere to go down so quickly. The worst part is that we really have not learned much. The only thing that absolutely stands out is that Khelvaster and IH were in on both lynches.

Obviously I thought kaosfere was scum, too, so I can't really fault them for voting for him. Still, the chances of 2 players out of 12 being in on two quicklynches are kinda slim, I think.

FoS: IH and Khelvaster

[DeathSauce]

Ok, I seem to have missed something... why are IH and Khelvaster on the scumdar of a few people? Can someone please state the case against them?

I wouldnt go so far as calling it a

case

, I'm just calling it

suspicious

that we have had 2 lynches in a very short amount of time, and 2 players in this game are 50% responsible for them.

The votes for Discordian -

IH, Khelvaster

, discordian, kaosfere
The votes for kaosfere - me,

Khelvaster, IH

, paradoxombie

[DeathSauce]

Also, I feel that Deathsauce is most definitely stating raw facts, but not looking at the situation. He has pretty much ignored what happened.

Are you saying it

isn't

suspicious that you and Khelvaster both happened to be on quicklynch wagons? Are you trying to make us go through this whole WIFOM argument again? I can not believe the pace of this game, there is no reason for us to be down two players on page three, and two players in this game hold the majority of the responsibility for that.

Wouldn’t you call that looking at the situation? I think you’re just trying to start another wagon (seeing as how twitchy everyone seems in this game)

Maybe I just have a different interpretation of the word 'case', to me it implies certainty. Yes, I am trying to start a wagon, that is how I hunt scum, I look at thier behavior and I build a case against them. But, I have specifically stated that everyone needs to "take a deep breath", in other words, stop being so "twitchy". That is why my vote is not on anyone at the moment.

[DeathSauce]

Oops, I should have figured that out I guess. Sorry!

[DeathSauce]

I wouldn't be averse to a little more participation in this thread. I don;t like seeing the same names over and over.

scmp, especially, has been pretty much non-participatory. His two posts have been nearly meaningless.

[DeathSauce]

Hi all. I agree with DS, IH and khelvaster are suspscious, but i think that the scum might want to take a stand back and watch approach and WIFOM their way to victory in a game as so.

FoS: IH, and FoS: Deathsauce

GatorGuy, don't you think it it a little hypocritical to say that "the scum might want to take a stand back and wait approach" when you only have one post in the game so far?

FoS

right back at ya

[DeathSauce]

Interesting catch in post 83 concerning Adam the Amazing:

1) You say you do not know what strategy would be nice to use in this game
2) You follow that by discussing a

mafia

strategy.

If you read the rules it says at the end that the mafia are not allowed to talk once the day starts, it seems you may have caught Adam outlining a strategy for his scumbuddies to follow.

As for Khelvaster and IH voting each other, that's a puzzler. It makes me want to vote Khel to see if IH's vote stays there, but I am still reticent to place a vote, especially with so many players not weighing in.

[DeathSauce]

I don't like the fact that we are hearing so little from scmp, Gatorguy91.

Agreed.

Mod

: Could we get you to nudge Gatorguy and scmp for us? Thanks.

[DeathSauce]

I am interested in hearing why scmp thinks I am scummy, I have a feeling that it's because I called him out on his lurking. It's not personal, man!

I am still suspicious of IH, mainly because I was hoping that with the death of kaosfere we could put the whole voting yourself/quicklynch nonsense behind us and concentrate on finding who the scum are. I kinda understand his point about 'context', but I thought I already addressed that when I said that I couldn't "fault them for voting" kaosfere, which is obvious because I voted him too.

Anyway, with scmp's vote putting Khel at L-1 it will be interesting and perhaps informative to see if IH's vote stays there.

[DeathSauce]

IH, by unvoting Khel at L-1 you have pretty much cemented my thoughts that your early vote on him was just an attempt at distancing.

vote:IH

THIS PLACES IH AT LYNCH -1.

^^ Just so no one can

accidentally

hammer.

[DeathSauce]

IH, by unvoting Khel at L-1 you have pretty much cemented my thoughts that your early vote on him was just an attempt at distancing.

vote:IH

THIS PLACES IH AT LYNCH -1.

^^ Just so no one can

accidentally

hammer.

If IH comes out innocent, I am voting you tomorrow. I asked for someone to unvote me so no opportunistic scum/idiotic townie hammers me.

I know you did, and it strikes me as particularly convenient that it was IH that unvoted you. I was not sure at all that it was significant that you and IH were involved in both lynches, but the fact that you both came out with votes on the other one immediately on Day Three struck me as being suspicious and an attempt at distancing yourselves. Then, when there is a danger that you could be lynched, you posted:

Someone

who is town

needs to unvote me

(emphasis mine), and magically IH unvotes you!

That was the final straw. There was no reason for you to add the phrase "who is town" to that post other than a last-ditch attempt to try to make IH seem more townie.

The fact is that I don't think there is a chance that IH will turn up innocent, and I think we have a pretty good chance at getting a second scummer tomorrow.

[DeathSauce]

IH, read my post #126 above. It summarizes the basis of my suspicions.

[DeathSauce]

Though you voted us before that transpired.

That is a flat out LIE!

Post 104

Anyway, with scmp's vote putting Khel at L-1 it will be interesting and perhaps informative to see if IH's vote stays there.

Post 108

first of all

unvote

I'm unwilling to let a lynch happen again atm

Post 111

IH, by unvoting Khel at L-1 you have pretty much cemented my thoughts that your early vote on him was just an attempt at distancing.

vote:IH

My vote was not on you until after you unvoted Khelvaster, lying scum.

[DeathSauce]

Do you guys think that there's a possibility that Khelv and Ih are both scum?

Do you guys think that it's a coincidence that Gatorguy tends to show up late in votecounts and throw out multiple FoS's?

Gatorguy you are the absolute definition of "active lurking", why are you so hesitant to cast a vote? You and scmp are very high on my suspicion list at the moment.

[DeathSauce]

Ok, my thoughts.

I think it is slightly less likely that you (IH) are scum now that Khel has come up town, but you are not cleared by any means. Khel himself was in favor of your lynch because he felt you had "attached" yourself to him. Since he came up town that's a point against you

However, I need to do a full re-read and see who else pops up on the scumdar since my pairing of you and Khel was mistaken. I hope to see some good analysis from our new players as well.

[DeathSauce]

I also don't see the answer to my other question.

The way you phrased your other question was very confusing, are you asking me what I would think of you if a player other than you had unvoted Khelvaster after he asked someone to unvote him? That is a difficult question to answer because that isn't what happened. I expected to see you unvote Khel and that's what you did, I can't possibly speculate on all possible situations.

[DeathSauce]

I'm still here, just re-reading and making notes. I was hoping for some content from GatorGuy and a few others but I guess I will have to wait.

I'm nowhere near ready to place a vote yet, but I'll be back with some analysis hopefully tomorrow.

[DeathSauce]

Ok, here's my analysis, just going down the list alphabetically:

Estes

(replacing scmp):
I have to admit that I found scmp very sketchy, he seemingly didn't even bother to pay attention to what was happening in the game, so my impression of Estes is going to be influenced by that. Estes has thrown out some mild suspicions but has immediately qualified them with statements like "I could be completely wrong though". That is an obvious statement, we can always be wrong, only the scum know who the scum are. I consider him suspicious.

GatorGuy91

(replacing rj20076): Agrees with me and FOS's me with his first post, which is interesting. Finds the argument about IH and Khelvaster "difficult to understand". Comes out VERY strong against IH after Khel's lynch, but offers no reasons for it. More participation is necessary. I would classify him as IGMEOY.

groinhammer

: Actively hunting scum. Very townie feeling overall. Finds IH suspicious for lacking consistency between statements and votes. I feel that groinhammer is town.

IH

: Still tops on my scum list. So many inconsisitencies it is amazing. He votes Khev, and with his next post asks JDodge why he is voting Khev. Unvotes Khev in the same post where he quotes himself calling Khev "opportunistic scum". Votes groinhammer for reasons that are unclear, in response to a question about paradox's "hammer" vote.
That, coupled with the fact that 2 lynched townies have pointed their dying fingers at him, has IH leading my scum list.

JDodge

: In his first post in the game he said "I feel any meta-policy that states someone MUST be lynched if x happens is scummy in and of itself", which is the towniest thing anyone in this game has said. He has reinforced that point in his arguments with IH. Three times he has posted to either agree with or defend paradoxombie, which is always worth noting. My general feeling is that he is town, but possibly tied to paradoxombie. If one of them should be scum I would believe the other might be as well, and vice versa.

OK, that is the first half. I will finish the second half hopefully today. In the meantime comments and questions on the above are welcome.

[DeathSauce]

Hmm, it seems scmp being a crappy player is going to be my undoing.

It's not like my being suspicious of you means you are doomed. I just think you are being very non-comittal. Not probing, not asking questions, not actively hunting scum. That is what makes you suspicious at the moment.

In other news, I might not get the second half of my analysis posted until tomorrow, we'll see.

[DeathSauce]

Analysis Pt. II

paradoxombie

: This guy has been all over the place. He makes a few valid points, but veers wildly into OMGUS. He doesn't mind hammering in a game where hammering someone has been a kiss of instant death. He places a vote that isn't a hammer vote, but it turns out to be one, and he says he thought he was hammering anyway! It's so hard to get a solid read on him that I am going to declare him suspicious just so I don't have to think about him anymore.

SirTornado

: Solid town play. Made an excellent catch in noticing that AdamTheAmazing was seemingly instructing fellow scummers in how to advance. Asks a lot of questions, and follows up on them. Doesn't vote without articulating the reason. These are all things that I like townies to do, and therefore I am inclined to believe he is town.

Streeflo

(replacing AdamTheAmazing): Another case where the predecessor is going to slightly influence me. As someone that replaces often I know that doesn't seem fair, but it's the way it is. So far has been targeting paradox. One odd thing that stands out is when he says to JDodge , referring to a possible Khel lynch, "Why doesn't someone

vote

khelvaster then?" I'm not sure what he meant by that and would like an explanation. On the surface it seems like it might be another bit of direction to fellow scummers, like his predecessor seemed to be guilty of. I classify Streeflo as a FoS.

I think that is everyone that is still alive.

[DeathSauce]

EBWOP:

Paradox's weirdo vote on groinhammer doesn't help his cause. I think groinhammer has explained at least 3 times his suspicion of IH. Elevate paradox's suspicion level in the post above.

[DeathSauce]

Wow, things have ground to a halt here.

Since IH still leads my scum list, and to hopefully spark some activity,

vote:IH

Maybe some other players in this game could share their analysis of the game so far? I feel like that was a lot of wasted effort on my part at this point

[DeathSauce]

IH, that post rings of nothing other than scum trying to get the town to do his dirty work. And possibly an attempt at distancing.

You are the one that has been advocating the death of all players who speedlynch. Do you think paradox's hammer votes were too speedy? If so then you should be voting him based on your own statements. Seems like another case of inconsistency between your words and your actions.

[DeathSauce]

I agree with Estes. That was a pretty lame post from someone that has been conspicuously absent, do you have anything of value to add to the game?

HoS: GatorGuy91

Changed my mind,

unvote, vote: GatorGuy91

[DeathSauce]

IH, perhaps you could actually respond to the question I asked you in that post? I know you have read it because you've quoted it.

[DeathSauce]

Also,

We've had two quick ones, and one was my fault...

You voted in

two

speedlynches at the beginning of the game. One of them had this to say:

I point to IH as the most probable player to be scum with my dying hand.

And the third townie that died felt that you were responsible for his lynch even though you didn't vote for him, here's his quote:

So, let's lynch IH today. He has linked himself to me so well that I really don't have much ability to defend myself. IH is WIFOMing around with me-- he linked us together so well that he has to have gone out of his way to do so. IH is definitely not that bad of a player to do this accidentally. He's trying to get an extra town lynch out of his lynch.

[DeathSauce]

It does not surprise me at all to learn that you don't like me pointing out that two of our 3 dead townspeople have thought you are scum.
It is a fact, however, and one of the milder reasons I am suspicious of you.

[DeathSauce]

You think the day should end with paradox's lynch, but don't vote for him. Interesting. All that shows me is you are trying to get someone lynched but don't want your name on the vote count again.

I know, I know, you are claiming it is so we have a longer day to gather information, I just don't believe that is the real reason.

[DeathSauce]

I've been pushing for IH's lynch for days, it's not very likely that we are scumbuddies. The only reason my vote is not on him at the moment is due to the intensive lurking GatorGuy has been doing. Seriously, what is with the folks trying to hide under the radar here in this game?

Gatorguy needs to "post or perish", in the immortal words of MeMe

[DeathSauce]

I'm not really seeing the reasoning for voting for Streeflo, I'm afraid.

Also, what is the status of GatorGuy? Being replaced? Something needs to happen there.

[DeathSauce]

Welcome Zodiac, looking forward to your input.
since GatorGuy is gone, I'll put my vote back on the scummiest player.

unvote, vote: IH

[DeathSauce]

I'm still here, you just asked the question I was going to ask. It's a bit unfair, but I too would like to hear Timmers' thoughts on IH's play.

Normally I unvote when players are replaced, but I have left my vote on Timmers because I really feel that IH was the scummiest player and Timmers seems to be following the same pattern.

[DeathSauce]

kaosfere got lynched for playing scummy, and he didn't really take the time to defend himself all that well.

I am on the fence about px, but leaning toward scum. However, I am much more concerned with you trying to whip up a wagon so quickly. Your predecessor was, in my opinion, the scummiest player and you have not done much to clear his name.

[DeathSauce]

Ok, this game is lagging horribly. I have been suspicious of px for quite a while , but I really think Porochaz is the better play here.

IH was high on nearly everyone's scum list and then disappeared. Now we have had a string of replacements for him and they have both gone after what I would call the "easy" target.

I am also not at all a fan of JDodge's sudden change in tactics. He seemed to present a strong townie vibe and then suddenly clammed up. I stated that in my long analysis post that I felt that JDodge and px were possibly tied to each other, maybe the best play is to lynch px and if he comes up scummy to go after JDodge? I could be convinced of that I guess.

I am keeping my vote on Porochaz, for now. I'd like to see some input from everyone in the next couple of days.

[DeathSauce]

When did I say you're not "allowed" to vote px? Obviously I agree that he is giving off scummy vibes, it just seems convenient for the replacements of the player I found to be the scummiest to come in and attack the player that already has the most votes on him.

It's suspicious and I'm pointing it out, that's all.

[DeathSauce]

OK, I reviewed JDodge's posts to see what connection I noticed back when I did my big analysis. It wasn't too hard to spot. The following are all quotes from JDodge:

OK then. Let's not quicklynch Paradox stupidly like we quicklynched kaos.

Note that this is the entire post, with no supporting argument.

Er, yeah, Paradox voted twice instead

I pretty much agree with everything Paradox just said. And you can't blame a mod mistake on him, either.

These were in reference to px's hammer that wasn't really a hammer. I don't know why he felt it was necessary to stick up for or explain for px at that point.

I

really

don't like this post.

Vote: Streeflo

This was in response to Streeflo saying that he didn't think anything was going to move his vote from px.

JDodge did throw an FoS at px when it seemed that momentum was building against him, but that can easily be explained as distancing.

I am going to settle on a "Major FoS" on Jdodge at this point , because a vote puts him at L-1. More on that in my next post.

[DeathSauce]

My suspicion of Porochaz also continues, charging out with a vote immediately, when he just confirmed that it only takes 3 votes to lynch, is dangerous play.

My suspicion is that he is trying to look like town by appearing to get a jump on scum hunting, but he puts a caveat on his vote by saying he just wants to hear from JDodge, leaving him free to easily unvote.

I would not be at all surprised if Porochaz and JDodge were our two remaining scum, JDodge indirectly defended IH a few times earlier in the game, I consider it a strong possiblility.

[DeathSauce]

Happy birthday, JDodge!

Please explain why we should lynch the player that led the wagon on confirmed scum.

[DeathSauce]

Okay then, possibly against my better judgment:

vote: JDodge

JDodge is now at Lynch -1.

I still think it's possible that you (Porochaz) are trying to coach JDodge, maybe this will shake some information loose

[DeathSauce]

If nothing else this game has been a great lesson of how NOT to play mafia.

1) Don't vote yourself to prove a point
2) Don't quicklynch someone that is voting themselves to prove a point
3) Don't refuse to explain your playstyle

We are still in good shape, 5 to 2, but we can't make too many more mistakes.
I would like to see some serious analysis from Zodiac, Sir T, and Estes soon.

[DeathSauce]

There's nothing to respond to in Estes' post. True, I didn't vote for px, but I fail to see how that makes me scummy. There is no defense of px in that post, I said he was giving off scummy vibes. The rest was about Porochaz.

FoS: Zodiac for posting without content, as he has basically done all game.

[DeathSauce]

So Estes is voting for me because he has a "strong suspicion" and Porochaz "thinks I am scummy" but offers no evidence or content to back it up.

Forgive me if I fail to panic.

Porochaz, you had not expressed any suspicion of me until Estes posted his non-argument. Why the sudden shift? Feels like opportunistic wagon-jumping with a side of OMGUS.

[DeathSauce]

In what way did I fail to respond to you Estes?

You pointed out that I didn't vote for px, that is true. However there are 5 players in this game that didn't vote for px. I pointed out scummy actions of his over and over, which is more than the other four did.

If we are going to discuss px's lynch, let's talk about how you suddenly appeared after 8 days of lurking and put the hammer on him. With the case slowly building, it was obvious that px was going to get lynched, is it possible that you threw him under the bus to promote yourself?

The rest of your "reason" post was a complete misinterpretation of my case on Porochaz. Pretty ironic from someone that claims I "don't know how to read".

It is purely hypocritical of you to accuse me of "disappearing" given your extensive lurking in this game, you have had gaps of 5 days, 8 days, 9 days, and 8 days between posts.

[DeathSauce]

@ ChronX.

Yes, I have been going after IH and his replacements all game, the reason for that is that I believe that IH was scum and therefore his replacements are as well.

In the rest of your post you are basically saying the same things over and over.

You say I was trying to "derail the wagon" on px by grilling IH's successor, but you admit that I have been consistently gunning for IH and his successors all game. You quote a post in which I again am consistent in suspicion of the IH team, but also offer thoughts on alternative town strategies. I am hardly able to force the town to trade a scum for a townie, look back and re-read my reasons to believe Dodge and px were linked, I think you will find it made a lot of sense at the time.

[DeathSauce]

Well, one of you voting for me is scum, now it is just a matter of figuring out which one.

[DeathSauce]

Bah! I curse you from beyond the grave!

[DeathSauce]

This was my first game as scum, and I see now how horribly I played it. I'm surprised I lasted as long as I did.

I think the setup definitely favors the town, especially when nearing the endgame, it would take scum more skillful than I to win in this situation.

I learned a lot from this game and thanks to all participants.