The War to End All Freaktowns: GAME OVER

[ibaesha]

Vote Ibby

Ibby is always scum. This is known.

<3 That would be you, m'dear. I'd OMGUS you but I think that I'd rather ...

vote: Kilroy8675309

[ibaesha]

[ibaesha]

Condone their behavior? How about laughing at the silliness of it all, including your reactions. I wasn't sure what the point of it was, but it was funny. Lighten up. And how does my amusement with the thread make me suspicious to you? Explain yourself.

[ibaesha]

BM: You haven't seen edgy from me yet. Believe me, you'd know.

[ibaesha]

I totally forgot to say...

<3 Fritz

[ibaesha]

It's evil and wrong.

[ibaesha]

Ya'll are totally setting a bad example for us newbies. I hop on the wagon, and I'm totally scummy tomorrow when he turns out innocent; I don't and if the wagonee turns out scum, I'm still scummy...all based on a random vote.
On the other hand, you guys are cracking me up!

That's some serious paranoia you got there. Also, it's not a bad example. Afterall, how else would you learn how to deal with a start of day 1 wagon of this nature? Or what they might mean. They happen.

[ibaesha]

Albert: Mari's just mad because she was scum in Freaktown 3 and I caught her. And she's jealous of my princessness.

The whole IH, Jdodge, BM thing was funny for a bit, now I'm bored. I don't see how soupfly is scum for saying something about it. Out of our spammers, I think K-scope is the most suspicious. Kind of like infiltrating the spamfest to get undercover and avert notice. The vote on Soupfly is nothing but keeping it going. Besides, disagreement doesn't equal scum.

unvote, vote kscope

[ibaesha]

I already explained it. It's real easy to just be part of the spamfest and go unnoticed, and I think you may have been doing that. Except, I noticed.

[ibaesha]

Ibaesha voted K-scope for sneaky spamming, which I don't get at all as more of K-scope's posts are contentful than not,...

Really? Tell me which posts of Kscope's before my vote was contentful. I must have missed them.

I can't really see a problem with item claiming. I haven't heard any valid arguments against it to chew on either.

[ibaesha]

xyzzy: Ask TSS, he claims there was contentful stuff in kscope's posts.

[ibaesha]

soupfly, please pick someone to claim next so we can move on.

My vote stands.

[ibaesha]

You guys can tell me how you want me to do this.

I currently hold no items. I gave a person an item last night. I will say that the person has yet to claim.

I can:
Claim the item I gave and the person I gave it to.
Claim the item only.
Claim the person only.
Claim neither.

Until the above is settled, I won't pick another person to claim.

[ibaesha]

No, you can give, drop, or save and use the next night (if you can use the item - this part was rather vague). I asked Raj about it. I didn't feel comfortable dropping the item so I gave it to someone for two reasons: Because I felt the item was fitting for the person (just a personal non-game related preference). And to see how they would handle having been given the item. ie: Would they drop it, would they claim it in a claiming situation, etc.

[ibaesha]

So do you want me to claim who or not?

[ibaesha]

I would like to know who Ibby gave her item to.

Can I get a consensus?

[ibaesha]

Or I could claim the item.

[ibaesha]

Ibby, was there a reason you gave said person an item, especially without any day to be had? Were you just benevolent to any random person?

I didn't feel comfortable dropping the item so I gave it to someone for two reasons: Because I felt the item was fitting for the person (just a personal non-game related preference). And to see how they would handle having been given the item. ie: Would they drop it, would they claim it in a claiming situation, etc.

Not just any random person.

[ibaesha]

Alright. How about someone that's hardly said a word today.

FlyingFoxBat - 1 post - claim your item(s) please.

[ibaesha]

I would still like to know who Ibby gave the item to, or at least what she gave.

You keep saying this, but I haven't gotten anywhere close to a consensus on the matter. I'm definately not for claiming it just because one person wants the info. What I would like to know is why you find it so incredibly important.

It should be obvious by now, the person I gave it to hasn't claimed yet. You can narrow it down pretty far from there. Also, the item is

not

alcohol if that is part of your curiousity.

[ibaesha]

If you don't know more than that, you either haven't checked your PMs or you're lying. Which is it?

Fritz should also have the item I sent him.

[ibaesha]

Apparently you failed to read. I asked Raj about the items and he did indeed say we could give them at night. My PM doesn't mention giving them either. However, you don't even need to take my word for it. Read the rules.

2. Players now have the choice of dropping it, keeping it, or to give it. Dropping an item will allow anyone to take it the beginning of the next day. If you keep it you will be allowed to use it next night phase. If you give it the person you give it to can use it starting that night.

[ibaesha]

Your assumption is wrong. Everyone has the option. If you doubt me, check with the mod. And might I add that just because the newspaper says scum were seen giving each other items, that doesn't exclude town from having given items last night.

preview edit: There you go, now you're thinking.

[ibaesha]

Yag, before you ask me anymore questions, please go back and read my posts.

[ibaesha]

Oh, I missed Fritz's post. I confirm that I gave him a Full Metal Jacket dvd.

Anyways, to answer you Yag, I'll explain my train of thought.

I didn't foresee a mass-claiming of items day 1, obviously. I felt that dropping an item that I did not need and therefore probably could not use was dangerous. It is FAR more random to drop items and allow just anyone to pick them up than to give an item to someone specific. I didn't want random scum picking it up. Therefore, I looked at the item and decided who -Ibby- would give that particular item to, and it was Fritz. This way, I would -know- who received the item and also I could see how Fritz handled receiving said item.

My action makes a lot more sense than the dropping of items for some random (poss scum) person to pick up. If we had not decided to mass-claim items today, those of you who dropped items would not know where your items went or who they went to.

And just to make it crystal clear, if it isn't already.

Even if town could do so, I don't see a reason why they would give it too a random person, whom they don't know to be town or scum.

Even if town could drop items, I don't see a reason why they would drop an item for a random person, whom they don't know to be town or scum to pick up. Especially a random person they cannot identify without a mass claim.

As for you needing Full Metal Jacket, Yag. I guess you'll have to ask Fritz for it.

[ibaesha]

Item List updated. The first part is blatantly copied from Mariyta.

Mariyta:
*Dropped Blackberries
*Picked up Purse

Soupfly:
*Dropped Staples
*Picked up Cloth

K-Scope:
*Snoop Dogg CD
*Unfermented Bear Bear

Miss Moo:
*Free Call
*Blackberries
*Fish

LoudMouthLee:
*Horse

YagamiLight
*Napalm

Kinetic
*Dropped ??

the silent speaker
*Picked up staples
*Old Truck

mole
*YouTube
*Picked up Blockus

Fritz
*Dropped Blockus
*Received Full Metal Jacket from Ibby

Kilroy8675309
*Picked up Survivor

Blight
*Sam's Cola
*Painkillers

People who gave items:
*Ibby gave Fritz Full Metal Jacket

Items on the ground at start of the day:
Survivor DVD - Kilroy picked up
Purse - Mariyta picked up
Cloth - soupfly picked up
Blockus - mole picked up
Blackberries - Miss Moo picked up?
Staples - TSS picked up
Fish - Miss Moo picked up?

Messenger - gone, but not claimed
Chocolate Chip Cookies - gone, but not claimed
Unreal Tournament Disc - gone, but not claimed

I have questions about this list, they will be in my next post.

[ibaesha]

K-Scope: Did you receive an item last night?
Miss Moo: So we don't have to assume, did you pick up the blackberries and fish?
Kinetic: What did you drop?
Kilroy: Do you have another item? If not, did you drop an item or did you give someone an item?
Blight: How did you pick up painkillers? They weren't on the list.

Also, the following people need to claim, still:

Aegor (replacing inHimshallibe) - I realize he needs replacement
Aimee
Albert B. Rampage
Battle Mage
Faeren Lord of Carlisle (replacing SuperMarioSunshine)
Flameaxe
FlyingFoxBat
IH
JDodge
MastermindofSin
rolandofthewhite
tautology
xyzzy

And because the way people are claiming is making things very confusing, I would like to see the claims in the format of:

Have:
Picked up:
Recieved:
Dropped:
-And-
If you gave an item to someone or not.

[ibaesha]

Sorry, I missed it too.

[ibaesha]

IH: Okay that clears that up. Where can we find the list of those items?

[ibaesha]

Found it.

The town checks for any items on scotmany12 and found Painkillers, they put it in the pile of items on the courthouse lawn.

[ibaesha]

Can you answer my other questions, then?

Did you drop or give away an item?

[ibaesha]

Things of note:
Kscope has 2 items but claims he hasn't received or picked up an item.
Kilroy has 1 item, which he picked up, but claims he did not drop or give away an item.

There are still people who haven't claimed, but I find both Kscope and Kilroy's claims inconsistent with all of those who have claimed up to this point.

[ibaesha]

MoS, I didn't quite understand that either. I read the whole thing with Yag, but was confused by it. Can you point the post where Kscope claimed to have made the bear bear?

[ibaesha]

Sounds like scum or SK who's trying to avoid being nightkilled. Townies have nothing to fear from a NK.

*agree*
And since I'm no longer happy with my kscope vote...

unvote, vote Kinetic

I didn't really like his post where he claimed that I said Fritz was lying scum, either. Because I didn't. When I made the post regarding Fritz's claim, I actually felt it was -more- likely that Fritz didn't pay attention to his PMs than that he was lying. If I had truly felt that Fritz was lying, my post would've been accompanied by a vote. Note: it wasn't.

Also, in regards to Kinetic's last post:
I think it's more likely that scum would be trying to figure out who has what stores than town. Because Kinetic is thinking from that perspective, it hints to me that he's possible scum attempting to do just that. People who think like scum, tend to be scum. Just sayin'.

[ibaesha]

tautology: Please read this post. It contains the answer to your question. Then answer a couple questions for me.

Do you think it is suspicious for a player to keep track of where their items go by giving them to someone specific?

Do you think it is optimal pro-town play to just drop items for anyone (town or scum) to pick up?

And I'd also like you to explain what you see as scummy or random in the explanation I've linked you to, please.

Oh, and I forgot. While I'm on the topic of you. You claimed to have no items. Did you drop or give away any items?

[ibaesha]

I'm not sure foreseeing an item claim would've changed my action at all, but I may have been more open to dropping an item than I was. The point of my action was to know where my item went, not to allow it to drop into random hands.

As for how Fritz handled the item. I wanted to see how Fritz would handle being given the item in a claiming situation, which we've seen. Also, I wanted to see if he would drop it or give it to someone. Since I didn't consider a mass item claim, if I saw someone else later claim having that item and had never seen it dropped, I would be able to draw a line back to Fritz and see who Fritz interacted with and so on. It was not all about Fritz exonerating or incriminating himself. Obviously you disagree with this since you said:

I think it's suspicious precisely because there's no way for you to keep track of it once it leaves your hands. It's not as if you will have a reliable way to know the effects of your decision.

And you think that dropping items gives you a reliable way to know the effects of your decision? At least I know without a doubt the first destination of my item. Without a mass claim, you would know -nothing-. Did you think we'd have a mass item claim day 1 when you dropped your item?

The only way giving items away at night is more beneficial to scum than town is that they can discuss what items each other need openly amongst themselves. They also have that benefit with dropped items, though. How they attempt to obtain items is the crux of the question I think you're asking, you can correct me if you like.

If a pro-town player gives an item to scum and they know their buddy needs it, they can pass it along. This is your concern, right? However, think of this: If someone drops an item, scum can just pick it up, for themselves or their buddy and pass it along. I'm sure there are ways scum can come up with to cover their tracks when it comes to dropped items. And, I believe it would be more difficult to cover their tracks if outright handed an item from someone pro-town.

Just an addition to the problem with dropped items:
What is to stop scum from picking up multiple items even if they can't use them, just to ensure the town doesn't gain powers? I've already seen one person pick up multiple items. What is to stop scum from picking up the same item that someone else (who is town) needs, if they need it as well. For example, Survivor seems to be needed by 3 people. (The question of whether or not all 3 could possibly be town can be left for another discussion)

I personally think that it is safer to give items to people you know you're giving them to than to drop them for random people to pick up. I will most likely continue to give people items released from my store than I cannot use rather than drop them. I want

some

control over who my items go to.

This does lead to the question of whether or not people should claim item goals. Without dropping items, the town would have a more difficult time getting the items they need without claiming. This is something I'll have to consider.

As for benefitting a friend without knowing their alignment: Night 0 many target-based decisions are made because so and so is someone's friends. It's not new and not really all that random. And my giving Fritz an item last night probably isn't too surprising to anyone who knows/has played with the both of us. I can see you having an issue with it since you haven't, but there it is. I'd like to add that I don't think Fritz benefitted since the item I gave him apparently isn't on his list of needs.

[ibaesha]

Uhh, you never claimed. I think there's still some claims left out there, though. It's someone else's turn to do the list.

[ibaesha]

Well then you don't know me very well at all. I like to think of every possibility and express them. I'm pretty sure you know this about me, but I'll remind you all the same. I'm going to examine as much as I can, using any means that I can. If thinking like scum is scummy, then how are town ever supposed to catch scum? I'm trying to get into the scum's head, trying to figure out their motivations.

Recall that I've only played one game with you and in it you were scum (that I didn't catch onto). So I don't really have a strong meta on you at all. And it's the detail and level you went to in thinking like scum that concerned me. Whenever someone does that, it raises an eyebrow for me.

Also, I mentioned early on when the claiming idea came up that I hadn't really heard any decent arguments against it. Since I hadn't, I was willing to go along with it. I'm not really one to analyze and break down set-ups and figure out the best avenue to take, especially things of such vast nature like this. I never have been because it just gives me a headache. The thing is, why didn't you bring these arguments up at that time? Why did you wait until we were over halfway through and people had already begun claiming?

What is bothering me now though is that MoS was the one who pushed this claiming thing from the start, yet he hasn't claimed himself. And also, being the initial pusher of the claim idea, he hasn't taken the initiative to keep track of the claims or ensure that everyone either A) Claims or B) States their position if they're refusing to claim.

FoS: MoS

If you're going to lead the town down a path you're pushing, then do so.

Why is Kilroy not being questioned more thoroughly? Unlike every other claim: He claims to only have the item he picked up, says he didn't drop an item and says he didn't give an item away. This is a discrepancy that is going unnoticed and untouched upon.

FoS: Kilroy

Not sure I'm liking a Kinetic lynch at this point, but we're very close to deadline and I think his wagon may be good for information regardless of his alignment. Some people are jumping on with weak to no reasoning, including some who have lurked through most of the day and seem to have come out of their little hidey holes all of a sudden.

[ibaesha]

Cool

unvote, vote kilroy

I flat don't like the discrepancy and I think there's a good chance he's lying.

[ibaesha]

I think mole is saying that he believes you, Kinetic.
And separately he believes that Kilroy should PM the mod to find out what happened with his (not MoS's) items.

[ibaesha]

To address your earlier post though, Kinetic:

Fair enough. I probably didn't read the second post you made regarding claims thoroughly enough at the time. I didn't recall you being in such opposition as that, but more questioning what was to be claimed. I didn't really get your issues against the mass item claim until your third post, which came later. And I think you didn't really receive any 'help' in opposition against the claim because either people were: For the claim, didn't voice an opinion either way, or didn't really have a strong grasp of what the dangers could be (like myself).

As for the main point you bring up: People being killed by scum to gain their items. I suppose to me it doesn't seem like a huge danger, because scum are going to kill people regardless (barring roleblocks, protections, etc). What scum kill people over; whether it be items, or powerrole tells, people being onto them, someone being dangerous as town, or whatever tickles their fancy, is fairly difficult to guess at.

In addition, from looking at my own list of items that I need to gather, I think it would be somewhat difficult (at least early on) for scum to narrow it down to one individual or store that they want items from. (I don't think I could even figure out what stores the items I need would be in)

I'm assuming that there's a scum group and that each person in that group has a diverse list they need to gather. Because of this, I think it more likely at this point that scum would kill based on the other things scum usually kill over. That said, if scum were to kill people over items, I'd be more concerned about them nailing town power roles in the process than anything else.

I believe the entire goal of the mass item claim was to attempt to catch scum lying about items. I'm not sure that it's entirely served its purpose, however. And in fact, what I've seen is more confusion and derailment from actually looking for suspicious behavior. If anything, that is the true problem with the mass item claim right now. That was not something that could be seen until we went through the process though.

The thing is, now that we've gone this far, I'm skeptical of the people who have yet to claim anything at all and also have not voiced an opposition to claiming. It makes me believe they have something to hide. Therefore, we should at least finish it today and revisit the entire claiming argument tomorrow before anyone starts claiming again.

MoS: I'm finding it difficult to believe you 'forgot' what you picked up. Like Mari said, look in your sent PMs if you can't remember. You were the instigator of this entire thing and if anyone should have their shit together when it comes to the claiming process, it's you. You had some 'trap' planned out, but have yet to come forward with what was in your head at the time. I think a lot of people took your idea at face value (like myself) and trusted you to follow through. I haven't really seen that. Like I said before, if you're going to lead the town down a path, then do so. Both Mari and I have made lists, but yet you haven't so you can't say that no one attempted to help organize it because at least two of us have. It's time for you to step up and do what you said when you initiated it. Or at least explain why it didn't work out as you thought if it hasn't.

[ibaesha]

MoS: I didn't say you had. What I said is that you can't say that, in the case where you felt that I was pushing the entire responsibility onto your shoulders. And while I don't believe you should be solely responsible for keeping things straight with the item claim, I do believe you should be more responsible for it than anyone else because you initiated it.

BM: You're not making sense to me. Your argument against further claiming was due to two things. 1) You believed that K-scope was the decided lynch target. 2) You were concerned about scum figuring out information based on item claims (much like Kinetic). Reason 1 falls flat because K-scope turned out to not be lynched and claiming continued. As far as reason 2, if you truly felt that way, why would you come out and claim information about your store rather than just item claiming? Even if you are concerned that scum might figure out your store by what you claim, there's no reason not to force them to figure it out on their own.

[ibaesha]

Fritz, aren't you voting Kilroy?

I'm contemplating theopor_COD's posts. I have a couple questions for you,
theopor_COD.

What do you think about the mass item claim idea for today? Would you have been for or against it, had you been in the game from the start?

Foxbat, Roland and Xyzzy I think are yet to claim.

Might as well finish this claiming thing.

Now that Kilroy has once again verified he only has the item he picked up. He is the only person that is essentially saying no items were released to him last night, which implies he doesn't have a shop. Although there are 3 people left to claim, I've come to the conclusion everyone has a shop or space containing items released to them each night. This indicates that Kilroy is lying either about what he is holding or about not giving an item to someone last night. My vote stands.

[ibaesha]

Ibbygut says FLC is scum.

[ibaesha]

So you lied about even having the item? I've asked you numerous times about your items. And you continuously claimed you only had

ONE

item, the Survivor DVD which you picked up. Now you're claiming to have another but that you don't want to claim it? Yet, you were for the item claim from the start. You did not bring up issues against it. You did not say you were unwilling to claim. You flat out lied.

If anyone can explain to me why LAL shouldn't apply here, I'm listening.

[ibaesha]

MajorFoS: Carrotcake

[ibaesha]

MoS: Do you have anything to say about Kilroy's claims/lies? It's nice you want to go after lurkers/non-claimers, but why are you avoiding the Kilroy topic? Especially since your entire goal with bringing up claiming was to catch a lying scumbag and it sure as hell looks to me like Kilroy is one of them.

[ibaesha]

I have nothing to add to the current discussion about lynching lurkers. I'd rather lynch the lying scumbag, Kilroy, today.

[ibaesha]

No, you didn't show that he isn't scum. You gave a case for your opinion that he may not be scum. I disagree with your opinion and believe him to be a lying scumbag. Kilroy is also a complete asshole in some games, but he hasn't been in this one. That shows that his behavior isn't consistent across the board in all games. Also, just because someone acts like a fucktard as pro-town in one game, that doesn't mean they aren't actually a lying scumbag in another. And why am I having to explain this to you, MoS? You know better.

However, I do agree with you about FLC.

[ibaesha]

unvote, vote xyzzy

Lurker, for the claim, hasn't claimed. Promised content, hasn't followed through. Good enough. Plus, right now his lack of claim is causing MoS to annoy the hell out of me.

My vote will go back to lying scumbag-Kilroy more than likely, but I don't want a lynch before the claims.

[ibaesha]

Oh, well, whatever. By xyzzy's last post, I assumed he wasn't to be replaced. I'll switch back when/if that happens.

Why hasn't Andy claimed yet?

[ibaesha]

Yes, that thought occurred to me about MoS, but since everyone else has claimed, we might as well finish it like I said at some point earlier. Also, I don't feel like we can move on until this happens because of the random various people that keep following MoS on his rampage. I'm to the point of being so annoyed with MoS, I'll help him on his crusade just to get him to stop raving about the fucking claims so we can move on with the damn game and lynching scum.

[ibaesha]

unvote, vote kilroy

[ibaesha]

...and english is my second language BTW...</offtopic>

I have a feeling that people are reading Andy's post/vote on Kilroy wrong. I could be mistaken, but perhaps Andy should give it another go.

What pisses me is this Kilroy thing that doesn't make sense to me.

Does Kilroy's actions/claims not make sense to you?
or
Does Kilroy's wagon not make sense to you?

[ibaesha]

Responding to suspicions (even in a vehement manner) doesn't equate to overreaction.
OMGUS isn't scummy. It's an often pro-town reaction, but at best it's a null tell.

I'm curious as to who Kinetic has been defending besides himself today. If he has, I must've missed it. The guy has been on the attack for the majority of the day, and self-defense for the rest.

[ibaesha]

I still don't like Kilroy's explanations for his lies, nor the fact that he lied, or that he agreed to a mass-claim that he suddenly doesn't want to participate in when the pressure is put on him. Additionally, he's been fairly non-contributive and has done pretty much nothing to find scum. Right now, my vote is staying there, however, I can see a fairly decent case for Taut being scum and am not opposed to his lynch.

Originally, when he cast suspicion on myself and Fritz, I was suspicious because it appeared to me that he clearly had not read my explanations. I was satisfied with his response to me for the most part although I disagreed. Now that I see his latest interaction with Kinetic though, I see a large possibility that he's a scumbag that is coming in after quite a bit of lurking and non-participation, throwing around weak or sometimes even spurious arguments, only to come up with some BS reason why he made them.

[ibaesha]

I think it's very possible they're both scum. I disagree with MoS that Kilroy is just being an ass because I've seen Kilroy be an ass in other games and his assishness is accompanied by being a completely insulting, patronizing, ad hom attacking jerk. He hasn't been a jerk in this game at all. Just a worthless liar.

I really have no problem lynching either one. MoS does actually make a good point though. Kilroy is a good place for people to stick and hang without making much comment on anything else going on, just because of LaL. Even if MoS is wrong about Kilroy and he's not a mislynch, he'd be pretty damn easy to bus because of the blatant lying, so scum can sit on his wagon and do nothing that way too.

unvote, vote tautology

One scumbag or another, doesn't matter.

[ibaesha]

Yag: Yep, I believe that Kilroy is a lying scumbag. I have been voting him and in fact was the first to pressure him and vote for him. I have no problem with lynching him or moving my vote back to him. However, Kilroy has been sitting near lynch for quite a while and it

hasn't happened

. People are merely waiting for deadline to come around and are either not voting for him or are sitting their votes on him and doing nothing else. It's quite ridiculous that in order to reach a lynch we must wait for a deadline. So, I can either sit here with my vote on Kilroy (and do nothing) until deadline comes or I can poke other places. At this point Kilroy is going to be lynched at deadline according to deadline lynch rules regardless of if my vote is there or not.

There's a good case against Tautology and sure, we could wait until tomorrow to discuss it, but why? What do we do until then? Nothing? There is absolutely nothing wrong with applying pressure -today-.

Tell you what though, if people stop sitting on their asses and doing nothing and put Kilroy to lynch -1 before deadline hits, I'm more than happy to hammer. Otherwise, I think I'll spend what's left of this day pressuring elsewhere rather than doing -nothing-.

Jex: I'm not sure who you were referring to 'blindly following MoS', but if I was included in that, you're very wrong. I agree with MoS that people are using their Kilroy votes as an excuse to do nothing and let deadline just happen. I disagree with MoS that Kilroy isn't likely scum and is just being an ass. I agree with him that tautology is highly suspicious, and have made my own observations and case against tautology. You can choose to ignore it, but it's there.

K-scope: MoS is definately trying to lead the town. He's been doing it all day. I suppose you could perceive that he's trying to control votes but in the end, our votes are our own. Anyone who uses MoS as a future excuse for why or where they placed their votes is going to be highly suspect in my mind. FTR, though, I don't find it suspicious when a person tries to lead a town. I don't know if a pro-town MoS has ever led a town to victory before, but I've seen it done by others, including myself. (Glork specifically comes to mind and he doesn't have the award for Best Mafia Catcher for nothing). I know it's supposed to be some sort of 'scum tell' when someone is leading a town, but I very much disagree. And out of the 38+ games I've played on MS, I've never seen scum use this tactic successfully. Only town.

[ibaesha]

So when you said 'the town' you meant Andy?

You seemed to approve of Tar's blatant following of MoS.

Do you really think your BM vote is productive right now? I'm curious because you're among those people not voting for Kilroy that has voiced suspicions of him and even put him in your top three. Do you believe that we should just wait around for a deadline enforced lynch? And if so, how is that beneficial to the town? Also, If you have such a problem with people unvoting Kilroy, why isn't your vote on him?

[ibaesha]

Wow, I had forgotten TSS was even in this game.

[ibaesha]

MoS, I'm contemplating what that means. It definately means that TSS has slipped under the radar. However, recall that I said:

Tell you what though, if people stop sitting on their asses and doing nothing and put Kilroy to lynch -1 before deadline hits, I'm more than happy to hammer.

So while TSS's vote does look like a convenient deadline vote, at least he's on record for making a committment to the wagon. I'm actually more concerned with the people who are just sitting on it and no longer posting, just waiting for deadline.

[ibaesha]

Are you forgetting that I think Kilroy is scum? We disagree on that. And will continue to until he's proven one way or the other. Either way, one of us is going to be wrong.

There's not going to be a no lynch. Kilroy has had plenty of votes for a deadline enforced lynch for quite some time. I think that a full lynch would be more telling, therefore, yes, I'm willing to hammer. Now, I agree with you about tautology, and have voted him, but I think that you started this push kind of late. Perhaps if you hadn't been so damn stubborn about getting the claims and voting lurkers who were going to be replaced, this wouldn't have happened. Just sayin'.

[ibaesha]

People are far more careful as scum in my personal opinion, checking posts for inaccuracies, slips, tone etc.

Maybe you could educate me as to why you think it's a null-tell, because I disagree.

See my title. I do this as town and always have, consistently. The only time I don't re-read and check my posts for problems is when I'm pissed off and in a back and forth vicious argument. I know others who do this consistently as town too, namely PJ. Perhaps you may consider us exceptions to the rule, but those exceptions are what makes it null.

[ibaesha]

I've been ill and busy over the last couple weeks. Catching up now.

[ibaesha]

Kinetic: I think a look at Kilroy's wagon is in order. We don't know MoS's alignment yet, but there's a good chance that he was right in his assessment of the wagon. MoS's righteous fury towards the end of yesterday leads me to believe he was town. At any rate, going with that thought process, I'm going to put my vote on the person MoS wanted lynched, and who I also found pretty suspicious for the reasons I stated yesterday.

vote tautology

Mariyta: Hmm Fritz. I'm thinking town although I'm finding him more difficult to read this game.

It looks like we're not doing the item claim, but I am going to state right now, I picked up Sam's Cola.

[ibaesha]

Yeah, but is BM scum for that or just an ass? I can't tell which. After lynching yesterday's 'ass' only to find out MoS was right and he (kilroy)was town, are we going to do it again with BM?

Why is tautology being mostly ignored in favor of BM votes? Why does tautology, the scummy lurker, get off the hook except by people who have done re-reads because they're replacing in?

[ibaesha]

Meh.

[ibaesha]

I'll review the case against BM, but I won't vote until more people comment their thoughts on BM's wagon

Way to waffle.

FoS

[ibaesha]

Andy: Because you should have your own opinion formulated (go back and read if you don't remember) and basing your choice to vote on other people's opinions is riding the fence. Also, it strikes me as an attempt to feel out whether your vote will get you in trouble or not. Besides that, it's not hunting scum. It's merely choosing whether you will vote for the top candidate or not. A safe way to stay under the radar and not have to take responsibility for your actions. We're here to lynch scum, and while what people say and their opinion has value, the opinion a pro-town individual should rely on most is their own.

I'm not chastising you for not voting BM, I'm chastising you for riding the fence. Make a decision, one way or the other, based on -your- opinion. If you think he's scum, then there is absolutely no reason why you should need other people's opinions to help you decide to vote. Now, if you don't think he's scum, then you shouldn't be considering voting for him. If you don't know, perhaps you should look into it more (re-read his posts or w/e), or vote for someone else you find more worthy of your vote.

[ibaesha]

Yeah, why aren't you voting for tautology?

[ibaesha]

What if I voted you for not voting tautology since your Jex vote is lame omgusness and therefore not the better play. Then you're still closer to dying. Just sayin'.

[ibaesha]

I'm still not sure that kilroy was town anyhow.

I could be mistaken, but I find it difficult to believe that there would be no way to determine someone's alignment after they were dead. As it is, we have to wait for the article the following day, which makes things slightly more difficult anyways. Out of the articles given us, I'd be inclined to believe the article containing players' alignments most.

And, BM, wtf? Are you saying that Kinetic is scum for not voting you? Kinetic had a case on taut yesterday, so it's not exactly out of nowhere (ie- reasonless) and he's already said how he feels about you. Distancing from a mislynch? That's just a crazy accusation there, I'm sure it's got to be some type of logical fallacy.

[ibaesha]

I am trying to figure out how you see this applying more towards Kinetic's actions than say ... Andy's or the other 10ish people who aren't voting for anyone at all. As I already said, your statement that Kinetic is voting without reason is false.

[ibaesha]

Oh that's interesting, you are suspicious of people pushing for his lynch, but vote me (someone not voting him at all) based on a 'gut feeling'. Not to mention, your own participation in this game has been far less than stellar.

[ibaesha]

u got something against my gut

Other than it being wrong, eh.. *shrug*

The problem is that you express 'great suspicion' of people on BM's wagon, but vote someone who is -not- on that wagon. It's contradictory.

[ibaesha]

Raj would never abandon us. Plz.