The War to End All Freaktowns: GAME OVER

[Jex]

Way to post the exact same thing an hour after yagami. Anything original to add?

The point of the post was that Theo challenged BM, and BM replied with some pretty reasonable justifications for his finger-pointing, so I was trying to follow up with that. Either BM makes good points and helps the town, is full of crap and turns out to be scum or just off-base.

I haven't been shy about presenting my opinion when I have something original to add. I just feel like we've been chasing our tails for a long time. I still feel like the Kilroy thing was very strange and the way Kinetic has been coming out to defend several people has also been suspicious.

As far as the Andy thing, it makes sense now and seems like he's on the same page as everyone who doesn't really like Kilroy.

I was talking about the Andy thing, not the BM thing. You put practically the same sentence as the guy before you.

[Kinetic]

Kinetic, even though you didn't vote me that's still pretty OMGUS. Tautscum, really? That's a new one. You've overreacted from a vote a couple times this game often enough that it seems like a pattern.

Way to completely strawman my attack, refuse to address my points, and then call me scum again in an offhanded manner with no proof.

I'm giving you one more chance to address my allegations before I throw in my support for this bandwagon.

Major FOS: Taut

[ibaesha]

Responding to suspicions (even in a vehement manner) doesn't equate to overreaction.
OMGUS isn't scummy. It's an often pro-town reaction, but at best it's a null tell.

I'm curious as to who Kinetic has been defending besides himself today. If he has, I must've missed it. The guy has been on the attack for the majority of the day, and self-defense for the rest.

[tautology]

I was talking about the Andy thing, not the BM thing. You put practically the same sentence as the guy before you.

And I was saying that while, yes, that sentence wasn't anything more than "I agree" the post wasn't devoid of meaning.

About the Kinetic thing: Upon a reread it wasn't as bad as I thought. Most of it was the way he was dismissive about Ibby giving her item away. After discussion it turned out to not be a big deal, but "that's the way she is" isn't an adequate justification for behavior which would benefit scum more than town.

I'm still getting a manipulative vibe from Kinetic though, like he's trying to stay in the good favor of enough players to avoid scrutiny. I don't really like the way he's making personal attacks on BM either, but maybe that's just a stylistic issue.

Post 574 still bugs me as well as the way Kinetic reacted to BM voting him way back in post 133. It's small, but it seems like a reaction from someone who's worried about even the slightest negative attention.

Speaking of Battle Mage, it is interesting to note how closely he's been copying MoS. Both pushed for the item claim, but more importantly both are hoarding items. Did they both get the same idea? Sounds like BM was more successful than MoS in actually acquiring items, but we don't have an inventory claim yet, do we?

I think there are a few things we should keep in mind regarding the items:

First, what items have hit the ground but are still unaccounted for in the claim?

Assuming everyone has a shop, how many items have never been seen?

On the first page there's a list of four destroyed drugs in the "Back Alley." What's the significance of that?

And how about:

Mafia seen in nearby stores giving each other objects.

[Mastermind of Sin]

I'm assuming that scotmany ran the back alley. Either that or someone has the ability to destroy a shop. *shrug*

[tautology]

That makes sense. I guess "Painkillers" was the most innocent of the options then for his shop. That's pretty much what the "Night 1" post implies, I must have missed it the first time around.

Also, Pizza is on the destroyed list. What happened there?

[Mastermind of Sin]

Probably an ability to destroy stuff. Why are you asking so many questions about the setup? We have no way of knowing all of this for sure.

[Tarhalindur]

Kinetic, even though you didn't vote me that's still pretty OMGUS. Tautscum, really? That's a new one. You've overreacted from a vote a couple times this game often enough that it seems like a pattern.

This in an incredibly defensive post, and almost voteworthy on its own...

I was talking about the Andy thing, not the BM thing. You put practically the same sentence as the guy before you.

And I was saying that while, yes, that sentence wasn't anything more than "I agree" the post wasn't devoid of meaning.

About the Kinetic thing: Upon a reread it wasn't as bad as I thought. Most of it was the way he was dismissive about Ibby giving her item away. After discussion it turned out to not be a big deal, but "that's the way she is" isn't an adequate justification for behavior which would benefit scum more than town.

I'm still getting a manipulative vibe from Kinetic though, like he's trying to stay in the good favor of enough players to avoid scrutiny. I don't really like the way he's making personal attacks on BM either, but maybe that's just a stylistic issue.

Post 574 still bugs me as well as the way Kinetic reacted to BM voting him way back in post 133. It's small, but it seems like a reaction from someone who's worried about even the slightest negative attention.

Speaking of Battle Mage, it is interesting to note how closely he's been copying MoS. Both pushed for the item claim, but more importantly both are hoarding items. Did they both get the same idea? Sounds like BM was more successful than MoS in actually acquiring items, but we don't have an inventory claim yet, do we?

I think there are a few things we should keep in mind regarding the items:

First, what items have hit the ground but are still unaccounted for in the claim?

Assuming everyone has a shop, how many items have never been seen?

On the first page there's a list of four destroyed drugs in the "Back Alley." What's the significance of that?

And how about:

Mafia seen in nearby stores giving each other objects.

That makes sense. I guess "Painkillers" was the most innocent of the options then for his shop. That's pretty much what the "Night 1" post implies, I must have missed it the first time around.

Also, Pizza is on the destroyed list. What happened there?

... and tautology follows up with a bunch of questions that give me the impression that he's fishing and trying to divert the town from scumhunting.

That's voteworthy.

Unvote, Vote: tautology

[Jex]

I still think BM is on the top of my list but my list has changed a bit:

Scum:
BM
Tautology
Kilroy

Those are my top 3, in that order, at the moment.

I feel Taut is sticking up for BM a bit, which makes me think there might be a link, but I'm not ready to state that for sure. BM has quieted down a bit as the attention has shifted to Taut, which I find scummy. Also, taut's last post wreaks of scummyness. He asks a ton of questions that no one has the answer to. I agree with Tarhalindur that it seems like Taut is fishing in hopes of something important slipping out.

My vote is staying on BM for now, but with the deadline approaching I will change to anyone on my list in order to reach a majority.

[tautology]

The whole point of those questions is finding scum. I think finding someone who lied about the claim gives us a strong lead. Also, if we don't have enough items accounted for that means that someone's lying about what they're holding.

Also, most of these questions are things I could probably figure out myself. The whole point of posing them to the whole town is to get more people thinking about these things. What's anti-town about that?

[YagamiLight]

The first two questions anyone could figure out, check everyone's posts, and the list of dropped items, and go to the first page and look there at all the shops to know how many items are still out there. The other two questions are dangerously close to fishing. The only person going to know about the destroyed items are going to be whoever destroyed them. Assuming you have to own the shop to destroy it's items, most likely you are requiring a shop claim from them. Other wise, it's most likely a role claim, someone who has the power to destroy a store or so many items in one, or some such thing. So your first two questions, sure they're innocent enough, but your last two are anti-town with the answers possibly revealing power-roles.

[tautology]

I'm not really asking anyone to claim, it's just a matter of speculation. If the town can figure out what the scum are doing we can work to stop them.

I think you're reaching if you think that somehow asking about discrepancies is an open invitation for the pro-town power roles to claim away. If power roles did claim just because I asked about the Pizza it'd be their mistake, not mine for asking.

[YagamiLight]

The point is that unless you wanted a soft claim, possible even a full claim, so your question could be answered, you shouldn't have asked the questions.

[Kinetic]

About the Kinetic thing: Upon a reread it wasn't as bad as I thought. Most of it was the way he was dismissive about Ibby giving her item away. After discussion it turned out to not be a big deal, but "that's the way she is" isn't an adequate justification for behavior which would benefit scum more than town.

I'm still getting a manipulative vibe from Kinetic though, like he's trying to stay in the good favor of enough players to avoid scrutiny. I don't really like the way he's making personal attacks on BM either, but maybe that's just a stylistic issue.

I know Ibby. I can see her doing what she did as town. Thus it is a null tell and I dismissed it as such. There is no need to be caught up on something like that. If she had sent it to someone besides Fritz I would have been monstrously suspicious. But what did happen makes enough sense. Its perfectly adequate justification in my book.

As for this "manipulative vibe", I find that completely hilarious. Go back and read. I was called scum so many times for not supporting the mass claim with all my heart and mind. I was honestly afraid if I didn't support mass claim I might be lynched, but I had to state what I felt was hurting the town.

I have NO CLUE how it happened that all of these people all of a sudden thinks I'm town. I'm not complaining, but you can't honestly think I came into this game and "manipulated" myself into this position. I'm just as surprised as anyone.

As for the "personal attacks" on BM, if you mean my logical arguments breaking down his illogical and hypocritical attitude, then I think you need to look again. True, I could have been nicer, but this isn't a game of hopscotch. This is an adversarial situation where people are trying to lie, cheat, and trick others into killing their friends. Sometimes nice takes a back seat.

At this point I'm a little more unsure of Taut than I was earlier. I'd like to see a

Mod:VC

before I make any decision. I think Kilroy might be the play, but Taut might also be the play of the day. I'd like to do a little more re-reading and see where a few other people stand before I make my own decision.

[KaleiÐoscøpe]

Vote is staying on Kilroy

[ibaesha]

I still don't like Kilroy's explanations for his lies, nor the fact that he lied, or that he agreed to a mass-claim that he suddenly doesn't want to participate in when the pressure is put on him. Additionally, he's been fairly non-contributive and has done pretty much nothing to find scum. Right now, my vote is staying there, however, I can see a fairly decent case for Taut being scum and am not opposed to his lynch.

Originally, when he cast suspicion on myself and Fritz, I was suspicious because it appeared to me that he clearly had not read my explanations. I was satisfied with his response to me for the most part although I disagreed. Now that I see his latest interaction with Kinetic though, I see a large possibility that he's a scumbag that is coming in after quite a bit of lurking and non-participation, throwing around weak or sometimes even spurious arguments, only to come up with some BS reason why he made them.

[Battle Mage]

erm how do you suppose it is 'entirely OMGUS' when 2 of the 3 people havent voted for me, and 1 of them hasnt even given the slightest indication of suspecting me?

So I need to vote for you in order for your actions to be considered OMGUS, but I don't have to vote you in order to "lead a bandwagon against you". Your words, not mine.

exactly. was that really so hard to get your noggin around?

[rajrhcpfreak]

Page 40 Vote Count:

Kilroy8675309: 11 (KaleiÐoscøpe, Fritzler, YagamiLight, MissMoo, Kinetic, Mariyta, soupfly, theopor_COD, Aimee, ibaesha, Andycyca)
Battle Mage: 3 (Jex, Blight, JDodge)
Andycyca: 2 (Faeren Lord of Carlisle, the silent speaker)
tautology: 2 (MastermindofSin, Tarhalindur)
Kinetic: 2 (tautology, Battle Mage)
KaleiÐoscøpe: 1 (Kilroy8675309)
IH: 1 (Carrotcake)
Mariyta: 1 (Flameaxe)
the silent speaker: 1 (IH)

Not Voting: 2 (Max, TheStranger)

14 for a Lynch

Items on the ground:

Nothing

Mod Note: Deadline Sunday. Don't forget

[Mastermind of Sin]

More votes on tautology, less on Kilroy. I am extremely suspicious of the people just sitting their votes on Kilroy just because he's being an ass, instead of lynching the incredibly scummy tautology. Smells of scum trying to keep their mislynch going until it's too close to deadline to go after anyone else.

[Kinetic]

That is the scummiest thing I've heard you say this game MOS. Isn't it also possible that Kilroy is the scum and Taut is the mislynch?

[ibaesha]

I think it's very possible they're both scum. I disagree with MoS that Kilroy is just being an ass because I've seen Kilroy be an ass in other games and his assishness is accompanied by being a completely insulting, patronizing, ad hom attacking jerk. He hasn't been a jerk in this game at all. Just a worthless liar.

I really have no problem lynching either one. MoS does actually make a good point though. Kilroy is a good place for people to stick and hang without making much comment on anything else going on, just because of LaL. Even if MoS is wrong about Kilroy and he's not a mislynch, he'd be pretty damn easy to bus because of the blatant lying, so scum can sit on his wagon and do nothing that way too.

unvote, vote tautology

One scumbag or another, doesn't matter.

[Andycyca]

What MoS says is very true, I haven't paid attention to Taut, now that you mention it.

UNVOTE

But Kilroy still seems scum to me. Lemme check what we have about Taut before voting back.

[Jex]

Alright, so MOS says that scum are sitting on Kilroy's wagon, then two people miraculously jump off the wagon. Smells fishy to me.


Also, another attempt to lead the town to a lynch of whomever. MoS is continously saying one person is scummy, only to change his mind. What I don't understand is why the town has so blindly followed everything MoS point out. I don't get it. Apparently I'm missing something.

[Mastermind of Sin]

What's scummy about changing my mind? It's not like I nothing has happened to change my mind. It didn't come out of the clear blue.

[YagamiLight]

Andy, Ibby, you both agree that Kilroy's scum. Then you should vote him. You changed because Kilroy said the scum can just sit on him, well, both town and scum will sit on him for being scummy. The only way to end it would be to lynch him at this point, at which point discussion can continue tomorrow with Taut, or anyone else who may look scummy.