Mafia 71: The Corsican Syndicate - Game over!

[ChronX]

vote: Saint Freak

for having a name which is a palindrome for freakin sat

[ChronX]

gosh it is a newbfest up in herr.

vote 50

and saint freak isnt a palindrome. racecar is.

actually

vote chronx

Anagram. Thanks. I (re)learned something today.

ps yours: Is Match Sized. Don't make me OMGUS vote you or I will refer to you as tiny. )

[ChronX]

*kneejerk WIFOM

Are all you new people acronym-victims too? I've been fully indoctrinated, as you can see.

[ChronX]

FoS Lurkers.

[ChronX]

It would appear we have moved out of the random phase amazingly quickly, which I applaud.

FoS Lurkers.

LOL LOL LOL LOL JK JK

Fixed

ps, I recognize that Garnasha is making a funny to try to cover up being a lurker when he voted me.

pps LOL

[ChronX]

The interplay between Womensrights and Waar seems forced/staged. I don't like the way Waar is forcing the case on CKD and is in a rut, saying he is defensive. If he is defensive, Waar is badgering.

And why not call out the lurkers? I see no reason to wait until the deadline to lynch someone if they are scum. Discussion is all well and good, but so is a game not taking weeks to finish.

You are going to have to recalibrate your lurk-dar. I'm pleased the game moved beyond the random/joke phase abruptly, but it did so before a full sun cycle passed. People on the site come from time zones as far apart as Europe and New Zealand, with plenty of US.

You were also way too defensive of the non-accusation by Cicero. He never said anyone was talking about the game outside of the thread; to paraphrase, he was simply suggesting that you all who know each other from SA have advanced meta knowledge of each other, just like those of us who play here do of CKD. You'll notice the CKD bandwagon is primarily composed of the newer players and probably others who don't know his playstyle.

I wish I had more than 1 vote because

FoS Waar
IGMEOU mcpaltp
UNVOTE
Vote: Womensrights

I sense distancing. I think starting a BW on Wmnrts is the right move; Waar, in addition to being scummy, is demonstrating that he will be the Village Pompous Idiot so he can be counted on to expose himself further, later.

[ChronX]

You were also way too defensive of the non-accusation by Cicero. He never said anyone was talking about the game outside of the thread; to paraphrase, he was simply suggesting that you all who know each other from SA have advanced meta knowledge of each other, just like those of us who play here do of CKD. You'll notice the CKD bandwagon is primarily composed of the newer players and probably others who don't know his playstyle.

To be fair I have good reason to be defensive. The last thing I want is for you guys to think that we're invading your board just to fuck with your game and not play this thing through properly. We came here on a field trip to see how it's done on your end and I promise you no one (except maybe Alasdair because god knows what goes through his head) is here to mess with the rules.

But let's look at who voted for CKD: Battle Mage, Tarhalindur, Lazy, 50 pounds of bread, Waar, Saint Freak, mcpoddjfojfdl

4 of those are from SA. 3 are from this board. Now, I know that the SA players aren't new, not sure about the folks from your team. Although I do freely admit that probably none of us know anyone's playstyle from here.

I sense distancing. I think starting a BW on Wmnrts is the right move; Waar, in addition to being scummy, is demonstrating that he will be the Village Pompous Idiot so he can be counted on to expose himself further, later.

You're silly. How can there be "distancing" when it's not like waar and I were "Yeah buddy let's get him!" and then we started pulling apart with the so called "forced" arguing. I thought he was nitpicking. I thought his unvote looked weird. I called him out on both.

Do you know how the term distancing is used (here)? Its when 2 scum fight in the thread to look like they couldn't possibly be allies.

This wagon on CKD looks like it was prearranged, not necessarily on CKD but on 1st available target. Waar job is to push the wagon and pick on the wagonee. WR's job is to pick out someone else who then piles into the appealing wagon (Lazy) and call him out. Later fight ensues between the schemers Waar and WR.

[ChronX]

@ WR: How do you feel about the following:

(1) Everyone who has piled on the CKD wagon since Lazy's vote?
(2) Battle mage's unvote?


Thanks

[ChronX]

WR, thank you for answering my questions. Your answers are also reasonable.

unvote indeed unFOS

The thing about the CKD wagon is, BM and CKD and I were all just in a game which ended sort of badly for the town, in part because of a serious blowup between CKD and BM. I took their early interaction to be banter to establish that there was no carryover grudge and nothing else; I made a pretty sizable blunder in that game as well and could just as easily have been one of the banterers.

I very much agree with garnasha's rationale in post 188 for his vote on waar, he says it more succintly than I managed to last night.

Vote: Waar

for reasons posted in #174 (my post where I FoS him)

Aimee, 5th comment in post 191, how could you miss Garnasha's rationale for voting Waar? He is incredibly detailed in his paragraphs about how he arrives at that conclusion, in the same post he votes. Coupled that with your FoS of CKD, it looks like you are trying to revive Waar's case and protect Waar.

FoS Aimee
@ Mod: Fully more than half the population ISN'T posting heartily, and one site vet already cracked under the pace, it seems. Please leave deadline as-is, our regular players are not comfortable with speed lynches. Thanks

[ChronX]

BM do you really see the way Waar has pushed and poked at CKD as legit scum hunting?

[ChronX]

BM one other quick thing, your post 190, who is "desisted" that you FoS?

Not a big deal, just a paperwork issue.

[ChronX]

Lazy's play deserves way more attention than its getting. Waar pushed CKD but Lazy did exploit the pressure, and now this blunder.

unvote
Vote: Lazy

[ChronX]

OK, the pressure on lazy has gotten us some feedback from him, and at this point in the early going I don't want to keep the spotlight on someone for too long; this should be a target rich environment and we will all remember Lazy's play if he messes up again. If he's scum, he probably will do something else worthy of our attention.

Meanwhile, :

UNVOTE

Aimee has posted once, and did a poor job of making use of facts.

reFoS Aimee

for following up a bad post with lurking

There are a number of people who haven't posted since Thursday or early Friday, but I don't want to slap a lurker tag there since I will have weekends where I can't post much or at all myself (see sig). However, Saint Freak's absence since Thursday is remarkable because:

Someone sum up the case against CKD in like, 4 bullet points. I don't have time to read all of this.

Wanting someone else to make the case, often a scum tell.

Eh, a two bullet pointer is hardly worth my vote, but waar must be town as per T/D so I suppose I should follow him.

Unvote: WomensRights
Vote: CKD

Then piles into the CKD wagon with this post, despite saying its hardly worth his vote.

Then "lurks in the open" with three "silly" posts, one of which is a misquote of CKD inside a quote box (uncool), a silly metagame observation, and the truth or dare nonsense (uncool).

Enough to see some votes accumulate on him and get his attention.

VOTE: Saint Freak

[ChronX]

CKD, your biggest scum tell through this incident is that you have kept it alive and argued it and only it endlessly. With the context of the recent game(s?) you were in with BM, and the clash of styles you seem to have with her, I didn't see the original interaction as scummy. I saw others trying to make much of it as more scummy for the opportunism.

This is not an open setup though, so one needs an open mind. I am still deeply suspicious of those interactions that went on and still see possible scum fingerprints, but maybe its scum A on scum B; I don't want to rule in or rule out what the mod may have put us up against. The long term problem I am going to have with your play and that I am going to hold against you is that you are taking the pressure on you personally and playing solely to limit the damage to yourself. Scum need to play as survivors; good towm players recognize that sometimes the bullseye falls on them and need to recall that a bandwagon depends on scum getting aboard to lead to a lynch. A townie needs to play in such a way that the town gains information about who is doing what, why, should they end up getting lynched.

You haven't done this; you are giving off the vibe of a cornered animal fighting tooth and nail for himself only.

While you don't lead my suspect list right now, IGMEOU for sure.

[ChronX]

mod prod on Aimee please?

[ChronX]

Oh good lord.

Now CKD is going to lurk for a couple of days, to take the heat off himself.

I put the original case and vote on St Freak and he REALLY needs to answer for his joke/OMGUS vote. Otherwise, mine would be firmly going on to CKD.

[ChronX]

A few things:

Windshipper, as I was reading your posts I was ready to rocket you to the top of the scummy list, but your most recent one is a reasonable enough defense for me to back off.

That said, be wary of jester play here. Ordinarily, the jester win condition is not game ending for a simple metagamey reason: Gms go to as much or more trouble to get permission to mod a game as we do to find a good one to sign up for, and would not want all the effort to go into a day 1 lynch that ends the game. FAR more often in the games I've read, jester behavior is a scumtell that either the other scum use to explain away their pals abyssmal behavior, or is the jestery player setting up the WIFOM case (real scum wouldn't call so much attention). Also, I am presently in a game where there is a claim from a cop that the cop has a "suicide pact" with the guy who was acting jestery. The alleged jester in fact was a scum who if he gets lynched, the cop commits suicide out of grief. I am led to believe THAT sort of mechanism is somewhat prevalent here.

So, your defending of StF as a possible jester will cause me to watch you.


At WR: FoSing is a very useful mechanism here, not a silly one. (Aside, your use of silly as an adjective IS imflammatory, arrogant and dismissive) We have only one vote each and 30 days to use it. In a game of this size there are probably anwhere from 5 to 7 anti-town roles, although there is no way of knowing for sure. Used as a means to track more than one scummy person through consecutive days, the FoS is a useful way to hunt scum. It also shows the rest of the town that one isn't tunnelling in on one suspect, which again in a town rich with targets, singlemindedness isn't very helpful to the town. Overall, the FoS IS a good way to call some heat onto someone scummy while still allowing one's attention to be placed elsewhere as well.

[ChronX]

wow kilgrey...that's actually pretty damning.

UNVOTE

for now. I'm going to reread and then vote again

Lemming, I hope you come up with some new thoughts of your own during your reread. So far I notice that you have only met the Lazy bandwagon and not liked it. You've been in on CKD, Saint Freak, Peers wagons and now find a case made by Lazy's replacement to be pretty damning enough to unvote.

Your predecessor's entire contribution to the thread was...nothing. Your contribution to the thread has been....a lot of restatements of others' thoughts, some jokes that I take it are metagamey references to SA and a lot of rationalizing about how several of the people from SA are (to paraphrase) the Borg and think with one mind.

I've been quite busy at work this week, we are putting a new security vendor through the paces and my wen use has dwindled. However, I've kept up on the posts since my original vote on St Freak and while there have been some other noteworthy happenings including Peers tripping over his tongue, I believe St Freak's behavior which earned my vote and his antics after are enough to leave my vote right where it is.

[ChronX]

/ooc We ARE deadlined, McP. Its a long deadline, but even that is bucking the trend of how most games are set up here. I first started playing and GMing "werewolf" games at a site with 24 hour deadlines, so you can imagine MY level of frustration. But once a game gets past day 1, the level of play is much better here than at the other site so I withstand the pace.

[ChronX]

MOD PROD on TARHALINDUR please

There are some relevant accusations against him, and he is posting quite actively on the site. We can't let someone wish or ignore the case against them away.

[ChronX]

no offence, but this post is the biggest heap of faeces EVA!

Really? Ever? Out of anything that's ever been posted, this is the biggest heap of shit huh? Wow, rah me!

This is so silly.

[ChronX]

ABR makes a point about Garnashas language barrier

helping

him, but I don't feel it is enough for anything yet. Maybe there is a true language barrier. We need to get something solid on him.

List Time:
CKD
ABR
Garnasha
Tarhalindur

No Lazy/Kilgrey? No St Freak?

[ChronX]

unvote
VOTE: Skitzer

It amazes me how many scummy (and/or poor) players there are in this game. Skitzer missed the first five days of the game, jumps in, and has posted 19 times. Almost devoid of any content whatsoever. Lists without explanation, and some metagamey/game setup conversation in general terms.

Skitzer, it is scummy to hide behind other people's cases, and you aren't even making that much of an effort.

I still feel the same way about Aimee, who is doing even less; Saint Freak, who has steadfastly ignored the case on him, and hasn't posted since Wednesday, and Garnasha's play has been all over the lot. Waar/ABR has gone from one horrendous play style to another possibly even more annoying one...

and yet people are still putting CKD at the top of their lists.

[ChronX]

^^^ coaching

[ChronX]

Just to remind everyone:

lazy was scummy.
Kilgrey replaces Lazy.
Skitzer posts a bunch of fluff and nonsense, and refuses to explain why his scum list is configured the way it is.
When Skitzer is called on this fact, Kilgrey sticks up for Skitzer, but explains in great detail why Skitzer should play different and look more town.

My vote is on Skitzer, but with the earlier scumminess of Lazy, and the clear coaching link between the 2, I SOOOOO wish I could vote for both at once.

FoS Kilgrey

[ChronX]

Can either Theo or Skruffs get a vote count up please, and can we expect one at least every 48 hours?

I understand Theo has an access problem from his work, but that's what backup mod is for, right?

Thanks

[ChronX]

I propose a special rule for you 2 special boys, that you BE allowed to talk outside the thread, and then post one pertinent thing each (or maybe post-rebut-rebut the rebutal). The noise and ad hominem attacks from both of you is...anti-town.

I don't see either of you as potential scum at the moment, so if this is a correct presumption, can you stop the town on town crime and focus on looking for scum.

@ABR specifically, your assertions that Tarhalinder is definitely town is a little strange, and while I think you are basing it on meta, you aren't always coming across that way. Tarl should really be allowed to sink or swim on his own merits; you are on the record that his refusal to defend the charges against him are a town tell in your opinion, which explains your view he isn't worth a vote, and thats fine but plenty. He hasn't aroused enough suspicion from me for a vote either, because I think there are other scummy people more worth my vote. But your insistence on persuing this argument is verging on the same behavior I am accusing Kilgrey of WRT scummy-Skitzer, except yours is more in-your-face.

@ Windshipper specifically, the case on Tarhalinder was reachy but pretty decent, but you seem to have allowed your beef with ABR to put you in tunnel vision mode. Maybe beneath the personality clash you have commented on other stuff going on, but it has been buried. The tone of your posts is really drowning out any content you may legitimately have against Tar, and I honestly think is one reason why the case against him is falling deaf on my ears.

[ChronX]

I think sometimes the term "moderator" needs to be taken a little more seriously on this site. Moderator, by the root term, should act in such a way to cause the discourse going on to be moderate in nature. This back and forth between ABR and Wind is far too heated and personal. Overall the SA people are causing problems for this site and the powers that be aren't doing nearly enough, as I think some of the problem stems from the SA people acting like kids let out of sight of the nuns on a Catholic school field trip, and part of it stems from the MS long-timers being stodgy and inflexible.

Back to the game, everyone seems to have ignored that Kilgrey was Lazy, Tar's vote was on Lazy at some point, and the case Kilgrey made on Tar reeks of OMGUS. Tar's CURRENT vote is (still) on Windshipper and he is pushing the Tar case until its wheels fall off....OMGUS again.

[ChronX]

Chron I can honestly tell you that everyone from SA has acted the exact same on mafiascum as they do on SA.

/ooc I'm led to believe from my own visit to the SA site that swearing is frowned upon and repeated swearing is near-bannable, yet there seems to be a lot of language issues, from a merely superficial point of view, to dispute your claim about SA behavior here. It also seems that ad hominem attacks are quite strictly and expressly prohibited, and yet those are being engaged in liberally here as well. I stand by my assertion that the lot of you are acting like kids let off the leash; the alternative would be a paranoid assumption the "field trip" is an attempt to break this site via mayhem.

[ChronX]

^^^ Mcpal's post: QFT.

mcp, I hope you don't view me as one of the chasers. Quoting myself:

part of it stems from the MS long-timers being stodgy and inflexible.

The problem the SA people have as a group is that the perception here of the group is quite tainted by the bannable behavior of at least 2 persons who came from there. Its a well established sociological obersavtion that people are judged by the company they keep. There seem to be some excellent players coming over. The problem is more that even some of the reasonable people are acting a little...superior and occassionally making arch little jabs (vis: WR's insistence on putting quotes around "silly" to keep that thorn alive), which is being viewed more harshly due to the glow around the whole group.

I came here in August from a site with 24 hour deadlines, free reign in PM to talk to anyone about anything, and where PMing someone you are the cop and have cleared them, or a cultist who has been assigned to so and so the high priest or whatever, is all routine tactics (ie lynch all liars IS NOT on the list of policy lynches). I needed to adjust. But the breadth of games available here, and the quality of play after the day 1 is over with, have kept me around. My personal suggestion is that the SA people who sincerely want to play here, should do a better job of acting like its a melting pot, and not being so confrontational.

You personally, I think are a huge asset to the site.

[ChronX]

Speaking of which, we haven't heard from

our mod

BattleMage in this game in a while.

Or our mod(s).

@ mod : Prods on Tarhalinder, Battlemage, Aimee, mod
@ others: Feel free to add to this list of those needing prods, thanks

[ChronX]

Is this a policy lynch bandwagon forming on Aimee?

[ChronX]

I PM'd the supposed back up mod, Skruffs, who has been posting on the site in his games. Someone should PM Mith, this setup had promise and shouldn't be allowed to die, it should either be taken back on or mercy killed now.

[ChronX]

Vote count for starters. Theo's last was over a week ago but was accurate at the time.

I suggest you ask for a back up to the back up mod as well, because this game had a lot of the naughty SA people (as opposed to the good ones, of which there are also several) and it needs a few replacements. I would volunteer to help mod but with so many replacements needed, I think its better I keep playing.

Thank you for hopping in. It may be a little challenging at first, the natives have gotten a little restless.

[ChronX]

I'm currently

voting SKITZER

[ChronX]

... are we back into a joke phase? I can't tell from this page...

Nope. 50lbs is in the "act as scummy as possible" phase.

UNVOTE
VOTE: 50 lbs

[ChronX]

/agree

Its too bad, because there IS a happy medium to be found. A site with a global player base should be able to accomplish a lynch/week...this balances the need for time zone sensitivity with the need for games to actually progress.

MS has devolved into mainly paralyzed games; its very clear that people aren't ACTUALLY interested in discussion, but care much too personally about "losing". They would rather let games languish for weeks than take action that would cause lurkers to perish in the short term and stop lurking in the long run.

[ChronX]

request replacement