Mini 518: Underground Mafia, The Nightmare is Over!

[Anata112]

/confirm

[Anata112]

*winces* That's not very fair isn't it?

[Anata112]

I apologize for not posting recently, as I've been busy over the weekend. But now I've read all the posts and pretty much caught up.

In general I'm more of a quiet person as I like to observe, and if something has been said already, I don't see a need to repeat things unless I need to assert my position. As has been mentioned, I am a new member and still trying to adjust to participating in this game online.

I will keep reading the posts and analyzing until I have something to say that hasn't been said already.

[Anata112]

I've noticed that in games where I'm mafia, people tend not to suspect me for a good while, cause I tend to play more cautious. When I'm town, people tend to jump at me right away, since I play however I feel like ><.

Sorry Miztef, but this statement really jumps out at me. I have never understood why someone would say something like this. So am I supposed to assume now that you're a townie because you're expressing your opinions more freely? How do I know that you're not scum trying to play townie?

Even your subsequent explanation:

However, as scum, I tend to play more cautiously, and keep myself under the radar. That's why in game's where I'm civilian, I tend to be attacked quite early on, and many times I stay the center of attention for long periods of time.

It still doesn't make sense to me how I should interpret this. Are you claiming yourself to be a townie then?

It's interesting to me that you haven't been voted yet (if I recall correctly), yet you're claiming that everyone is jumping on you.

Anyways, I usually don't vote until I have more information. I'll be around to see how this discussion continues.[/quote]

[Anata112]

I've been analyzing the posts so far, and will be posting up my analysis soon. However, I have to go to class now, but I'll be back soon.

[Anata112]

If I misinterpreted something, please let me know. I would welcome any replies to any concerns that I may have. What I have done was summarize the activity so far, since that helps me think and keep track on what has happened. Then I follow up each summary with my own thoughts. Hopefully this summary would help with the discussion.

Abstract Actuary
Not much input so far, other than explaining his instincts, and putting up a random vote. However, his vote was a second one, so it seems to me like he’s trying to start a bandwagon initially in the game.

Sudo_Nym
He started off with a random vote (second for CKD), and tried to prod people when they reacted. He was part of the discussion about the necessity of the mass claim, but he didn’t propose it until Jitsu asked him for it. Later he unvoted for CKD, and voted for Mexal, but I don’t know why. Later he explains that he was just doing more random voting. I have a feeling that he’s just trying to hunt out the scum, rather than acting scummy.

Jayalay
Not much input from her. I guess us girls tend to be more quiet. =)

Curiouskarmadog
Starts off with a random vote for jitsu, and then later unvotes. Agrees that a mass claim is not a good idea, and feels that Korlash was not overreacting to the votes against him. He does continue to probe korlash for more explanation.


Korlash
He’s been a very active player with very strong opinions from the beginning, involved in all discussions. He questions the need for a fourth vote that a few others have been pushing for. However, at this point in the discussion, there were three votes against him, so it’s possible that he was trying to defend himself. He feels that random voting would not be useful in this part of the game. He’s also been heavily involved in the most recent discussion.

Jitsu
He first started off with a vote for Abstract, and then unvoted him. He stated that Jayalay seems townie-ish and that the initial voting stage was quite random. When Miztef started pushing for a fourth vote, he agreed. He also agrees with Miztef that random voting is good for checking for people’s reaction. He also seconds the guess that korlash is a townie. It’s interesting to me on how he’s sure that certain people have a townie-vibe. After checking for new posts, he agrees that sudo_nym shouldn’t have proposed the mass claim, but he was the one that asked sudo_nym what his ideas were. Am I wrong here?

Jerubbaal
He’s been quite analytical throughout the game so far. He feels that Jitsu is doing a good job of scum-hunting, and that jayalay should speak more. He also disagrees with the mass claim idea. After a long discussion in the form occurred, he appeared again and stated that he felt that the random voting stage is done, and unvotes CKD, and votes for sudo_nym.

I still can’t decide whether Jitsu is simply really good at scum-hunting, or whether he’s trying act townie, so I can’t agree with Jerubbaal. I also don’t understand why he voted or sudo_nym since I couldn’t see a clear explanation. Considering that he feels that the random voting stage is done, then why did he vote for sudo_nym?

Anata112
That’s me. I haven’t input very much yet, but I’ve mentioned scummy-vibes from
Miztef. You can read my other ideas throughout this post (duh).


oEJo
Another quiet player so far. He first randomly voted for sudo_nym, and then unvoted for him. He provides summaries as well, which has been quite useful.

Miztef
After my analysis, I found that it was Miztef that first randomly voted for me, but then later unvoted and revoted for CKD. His reason for voting for CKD was to keep the game moving forward. He later started pushing for a fourth vote, explaining that he usually puts pressure on people to get more info. Later he unvotes Korlash, which is really strange because his vote was for CKD (unless I missed something?). Regardless, he once defended Mexal stating that people weren’t giving him a chance as he just got back from vacation. He also mentioned that he was surprised that no one had voted for him.

I don’t have much else to add about Miztef, other than the fact that he keeps trying to push the game forward. Either he’s trying too hard to catch scum, which is his excuse, or he’s not blending into the town very well.


GunslingerKB
Not much from him, other than a third vote for Korlash. Why did he third the vote? Like other players, I would like to hear from him. His lack of activity seems a bit suspicious.

Mexal
Mexal voted for Korlash randomly (he was the first one), and then later unvoted and voted for sudo_nym. Again, I’m not sure why, and I would like to hear an explanation. He also agrees that a mass claim is a bad idea.

Things got a bit crazy and I lost track of things. From what I understand, sudo_nym sort of proposed a mass claim which several people did not agree with. However, since sudo_nym was prodded before he proposed this, I’m not sure if he agrees with this as well. I find this part of the discussion going in circles. However, hopefully later it will give us insight of who is being scummy. This is between mexal, miztef, sud_nym, korlash, and jitsu, with a few brief comments from me, oEJo, and jerubbaal.

After this horribly long post, I still cannot say for sure who I think is scummy or not. However, I’m still keeping an eye of Miztef, and now on jitsu as well, based on my analysis.

[Anata112]

What part of my reasoning are you unsure about? I was under the impression that it was pretty clear why I voted for Nym, whether people agree with it or not.

Perhaps I missed something. I'll have to re-read those posts again.

He was only prodded because he pointed out that he knew more efficient ways of finding scum. If you made a statement like that, wouldn't you expect to be prodded?

I suppose so. Whatever his intentions were, it is possible that he was just probing for scum and trying to see who would pick up on the bait. Anyways, we're still waiting for a reply from sudo_nym.

[Anata112]

This analysis doesn't sound fair to me. You seem to have pointed out everything negative I've done, and not mentioned any of the positive things I've done. It even sounds like you are subtly attempting to link me to Miztef by mentioning some things we happened to agree on at the time. How do you reconcile this with the criticism I've put on him since then?

Also, where do I say that I'm

certain

that someone is townie? I don't remember ever saying such a thing, because I was never that sure.

I did ask Sudo_Nym about his idea, but only because he hinted he had something to say first (post #55). I merely called him on it (post #60). I admit to committing logical fallacies in relation to the massclaim, but I don't see how I contradicted myself just by asking what Sudo_Nym meant.

I was merely trying to summarize the activity so far in the discussion. I did not intend to purposely link anyone to anything. Basically, I started from the beginning and wrote down assertions or activities stated by each person. I apologize if you feel that I ignored any positive things that you have done. Perhaps you could tell me specifically what I missed?

There are a couple of posts where you stated that you felt a townie-vibe from certain people. Perhaps my brain made a cognitive shortcut, and inserted that you were "certain", but that was the interpretation that I got from your posts at that time.

It took me a read or two to get it, but I think I see what what you're up to. Your timing for a subtle attack on me is impeccable, as I am reeling from the mistakes I've made on the logical fallacies Mexal and Jerubbaal, which I pointed out. I suppose you are trying to bait me into jumping up and down and OMGUS voting you so you can point to that as further evidence on me? Nice try, but I'm not biting.

I think you interpreted a bit too much from my post. Like I said several times, I was just trying to summarize the activity to look for some sort of pattern.

It's really interesting to see how people are reacting to my post.

[Anata112]

All we have is feelings. Gut instincts. There are no absolutes, unless you are on the mafia. To talk about absolutes in mafia, is absolutely foolish. If you need to absolutely believe that someone is mafia before you vote for them, I'm not sure how you will ever vote.

You made a comment like this after I said that I had a gut feeling about you based on your scumhunting praising of Jitsu. I even pointed to the exact sentence. That is what you would call "hard evidence". Just because I used the word "gut" in my post, don't assume the suspicion is any less worthwhile than when others do the same thing and not use the word "gut".

Playing on this forum is really a new experience for me, since I'm used to playing this while seeing the actual other players, so it gives me a chance to read body language, etc. By only interacting with other players through a forum, it forces me to stop and think more thoroughly by reasoning, as opposed to gut feelings.

To me, a "gut feeling" is just a feeling. An instinct. Of course there are no absolutes in Mafia, especially when one is a townie because one is never sure who is playing what role, and what tactics other players may use. However, through logic and seeing how people react, one can make guesses. I don't think it's wrong to ask people for gut feelings, but in an early stage of the game, it's hard to have correctly placed gut feelings.

For example, I wouldn't take Gunslinger's votes or even his list as seriously as other players simply because he hasn't backed his ideas with sufficient reasoning. I noticed that Gunslinger ranked me quite high on his scummy list, but I don't know the reasoning behind it. Similarly, what is his reasoning behind his whole list?

That's why I haven't made a vote yet. Whether I play on a forum or in real life, I don't vote until I have some sort of reasoning behind my vote. However, I do have a couple of suspicions, and I've mentioned them before. This is just the way I've always played.

[Anata112]

Wow...all of a sudden there are three votes for me. Just....wow.

The amazing thing that this occurs within three hours. Does anyone else find this interesting? Jitsu makes this long post that I don't think I need to summarize. This is followed by Mexal and Jerubbal who simply say something to the likes of "I agree".

In my posts, I have never defended anyone. Everyone is a suspect in my mind until I get more information. However, there are certain opinions that I agree/disagree with, and when that occurs, I voice my opinion. I never purposefully defended Gunslinger or Sudo_nym.

In my analysis, I was looking for voting patterns. This was also for future reference in later stages of the game.

Also in my analysis, I put up a few suspects, and Jitsu, you were one of them. You were the only one that mentioned about impeccable timing of my post and how clearly thought out it was. And now you say it's sloppy and a lazy analysis. So which one is it? And why did it take so long for you to bring up this attack on my post? It was pages ago and since you've been quite active in the forum, why didn't you say this earlier?

To me, it sounds like you didn't like me bringing you up as a suspect, and now you're trying to deflect the attention back to me. Does that mean my suspicions are correct?

Anyways, I'll be off for the weekend as well. I'll have a lot of posts to look forward to on Monday.