Gistou (Over!)

davesaz · Post Post #188 (isolation #0) » Mon Jul 11, 2016 5:58 am

/confirm

davesaz · Post Post #191 (isolation #1) » Mon Jul 11, 2016 5:59 am

In post 189, rb wrote:There's a 63% chance I talk about percentages in every post I remember to talk about percentages in for the rest of the game.

You're going to think about percentages and deliberately not talk about them 37% of the time? Scum!

davesaz · Post Post #326 (isolation #2) » Mon Jul 11, 2016 7:49 am

In post 324, Luna Fox wrote:
In post 315, Nosferatu wrote:well technically, there is no scum since everyone wins with their faction. But you said before you didn't have a nightkill right? In my eyes that's town.
Well my win condition indicates that i'm town so i doubt this is necessarily the case.

Are you referring to the having a night kill part, or winning with a faction part?

davesaz · Post Post #350 (isolation #3) » Mon Jul 11, 2016 8:10 am

In post 343, BBmolla wrote:
In post 340, Luna Fox wrote:
In post 338, Cephrir wrote:
In post 336, Luna Fox wrote:So basically i win with town but im not explictly town then?
The win con looked like normal town win con to me.
there's no functional difference between being town and winning with the town
Im confused by what BBMolla's going on about.
There is nothing that states winning with humans = town.

I interpreted the setup posts to imply that there may be multiple factions with "when all threats eliminated" type wincons. They would all be "town" in a loosely defined way.

davesaz · Post Post #377 (isolation #4) » Mon Jul 11, 2016 8:47 am

In post 379, Cane + Able wrote:It's easier for me to understand reasoning for town when the content being used to explain that read was made prior to the read itself.

This is a good point, though I imagine in a game this size and pace it will be difficult to keep new material from creeping in.

davesaz · Post Post #432 (isolation #5) » Mon Jul 11, 2016 9:44 am

In post 83, KuroiXHF wrote:VOTE: Confirm

In post 435, KuroiXHF wrote:Why are people voting? This game hasn't even started, have they?

davesaz · Post Post #433 (isolation #6) » Mon Jul 11, 2016 9:46 am

Game hasn't even started and already quote pyramids that take up way more than the whole screen, on a pc. I feel for anyone trying to read this on tablet or smaller.

davesaz · Post Post #454 (isolation #7) » Mon Jul 11, 2016 11:30 am

74 quoted 72 in which Frozen showed some emotion.
273 talks about emotion.
Seems pretty straightforward to me. I don't understand why it's a big deal...
Even 263 still fits in, if nothing changed in "the feels" in those ~190 posts since 74.

Now whether that little bit is worth a town read, is a completely different matter. I certainly wouldn't call someone town that easily... but I'm not liking the Cane+Able approach of casting it as a retroactive explanation.

davesaz · Post Post #462 (isolation #8) » Mon Jul 11, 2016 11:42 am

In post 461, Cane + Able wrote:
In post 459, davesaz wrote:74 quoted 72 in which Frozen showed some emotion.
273 talks about emotion.
Seems pretty straightforward to me. I don't understand why it's a big deal...
Even 263 still fits in, if nothing changed in "the feels" in those ~190 posts since 74.

Now whether that little bit is worth a town read, is a completely different matter. I certainly wouldn't call someone town that easily... but I'm not liking the Cane+Able approach of casting it as a retroactive explanation.

Fucking... you too?

My entire POINT was that I thought she should have USED 74 IN THE FIRST FUCKING PLACE, you illiterate clown.

I don't know about you, but it would never enter my head that I would need to quote my

only other post in the game

(74), when writing my

2nd post

(263).

What doesn't make sense is acting like there is anything wrong with this sequence of events.

davesaz · Post Post #465 (isolation #9) » Mon Jul 11, 2016 11:57 am

In post 468, Heartless wrote:
In post 199, Heartless wrote:could vote wayward or tim. not liking beeboy posts from the salthydra
I'm on the same wavelength with the Tim read.

Also scumreading Cephrir.

Reason on Cephrir? And not on the same wavelength on the others?

davesaz · Post Post #470 (isolation #10) » Mon Jul 11, 2016 12:06 pm

In post 363, No Retreat wrote:Should we all claim the checks we picked to limit shenanigans? Discuss

So this got a resounding "hell no" but why did you ask in the first place?

davesaz · Post Post #471 (isolation #11) » Mon Jul 11, 2016 12:07 pm

In post 462, KuroiXHF wrote:I can't believe we found scum before the game even began...

Who did you find?

davesaz · Post Post #475 (isolation #12) » Mon Jul 11, 2016 12:16 pm

In post 478, No Retreat wrote:
In post 463, No Retreat wrote:Who is scum?

In post 476, davesaz wrote:
In post 462, KuroiXHF wrote:I can't believe we found scum before the game even began...
Who did you find?
dat echo

Your question didn't have any effect, so...

davesaz · Post Post #528 (isolation #13) » Mon Jul 11, 2016 4:18 pm

In post 522, mastin2 wrote:At this stage, really just me being slow (and cautious) keeping the game up.
Need to double-check and make sure everything is in place.

Also, as a heads up:
I'm deleting hydraslips as they appear, which I thought was harmless, but apparently might make post tags not
quite
work as intended. If so, let me know and I'll fix them.

Not just post tags, but text post numbers as well. As much of a pain as they are, it might be less pain to leave them. Your choice of course, but I for one will vote for less work for you and a little bit more to read. As long as they pick up the slip by reposting in hydra.

Tip for hydra players, if you remove the quote tags from your slip it cuts down the quote pyramid by one.

davesaz · Post Post #530 (isolation #14) » Mon Jul 11, 2016 4:21 pm

In post 522, Cane + Able wrote: Me splitting hairs is not alignment indicative. It's a personality trait. You know me well enough to know this.

For the record I'm not currently scumreading the hair splitting. I question the emphasis not being placed on "having a read so early", as well as the early read itself on Titus's part, but not the hair splitting.

davesaz · Post Post #555 (isolation #15) » Mon Jul 11, 2016 4:44 pm

In post 546, Expedience wrote:
In post 541, rb wrote:Whoever the person that said the game isn't even Day 1, could you please outline how and why these pre-game interactions are apparently unimportant?

It may as well be called Day 1 with the way interactions are going.
I don't like this post because you don't specifically address anyone.

Don't like it as in it's scummy? Do you think effort is AI?

davesaz · Post Post #558 (isolation #16) » Mon Jul 11, 2016 4:47 pm

In post 552, rb wrote:
In post 546, Expedience wrote:
In post 541, rb wrote:Whoever the person that said the game isn't even Day 1, could you please outline how and why these pre-game interactions are apparently unimportant?

It may as well be called Day 1 with the way interactions are going.
I don't like this post because you don't specifically address anyone.
Silence mr.69% probability of being scum guy.

Got it now though, it was Cane + Able. Couldn't find the fucking post because of his grey text and I'm on phone so no search function.

@Cane + Maple Syrup: can you please explain why you're dismissing the validity of the content in pre-game?

Clarifying like that was pretty accommodating, don't you think?

Pedit: It's bold and grey, which makes it different without standing out excessively IMO.

davesaz · Post Post #590 (isolation #17) » Mon Jul 11, 2016 5:19 pm

In post 560, Expedience wrote:
In post 555, davesaz wrote:
In post 546, Expedience wrote:
In post 541, rb wrote:Whoever the person that said the game isn't even Day 1, could you please outline how and why these pre-game interactions are apparently unimportant?

It may as well be called Day 1 with the way interactions are going.
I don't like this post because you don't specifically address anyone.
Don't like it as in it's scummy?
Yes.

Do you think effort is AI?
Maybe a little, please explain the relevance of this question.

You didn't like that the post was general in nature. General posts typically require less effort than specific. So it implied that you think less effort -> scummy. I wanted to test that logic by asking if you indeed think that way.

davesaz · Post Post #696 (isolation #18) » Mon Jul 11, 2016 6:29 pm

In post 688, BBmolla wrote:rb is hiding behind his percentage "jokes"

In post 693, BBmolla wrote:VOTE: rb

not completely against expedience wagon though, I'd just rather go this way

Why the delay between the reason and the vote?

davesaz · Post Post #711 (isolation #19) » Mon Jul 11, 2016 6:37 pm

In post 695, A Song of Ice and Fire wrote:I can't speak for frozen, but I would really like us to not have a 100+ day. So, if we could maybe get a lynch by like page 50. It would just be gravy for me!

If we keep up this rate we'll be at 50 by tomorrow morning my time, and 100 by the end of the week.
Have you been paying attention to setup details? I wouldn't be surprised if we end up with 3 or 4 similar size wagons at deadline.

Pedit: 7 new posts. re 700 If accurate that would be useful to know. re 704 I don't think you can avoid meta reads with this many players.
Pedit 2: and another 6

davesaz · Post Post #728 (isolation #20) » Mon Jul 11, 2016 6:50 pm

In post 724, No Retreat wrote:anyways

vote:Expedience

Is this opportunity knocking? Or you have a reason?

davesaz · Post Post #736 (isolation #21) » Mon Jul 11, 2016 6:53 pm

In post 725, Luna Fox wrote:
In post 720, A Song of Ice and Fire wrote:
In post 717, Luna Fox wrote:dave maybe scum.
Go on....I wasn't getting that from his posts.
I feel like his posts dont add much to the game in general, and i find few or no clonclusions from his questions.

I'm pretty sure you haven't seen me play.

davesaz · Post Post #757 (isolation #22) » Mon Jul 11, 2016 7:01 pm

In post 590, davesaz wrote:
In post 560, Expedience wrote:
In post 555, davesaz wrote:
In post 546, Expedience wrote:
In post 541, rb wrote:Whoever the person that said the game isn't even Day 1, could you please outline how and why these pre-game interactions are apparently unimportant?

It may as well be called Day 1 with the way interactions are going.
I don't like this post because
you don't specifically address anyone
.
Don't like it as in it's scummy?
Yes.

Do you think effort is AI?
Maybe a little, please explain the relevance of this question.
You didn't like that the post was general in nature.
General
posts typically require
less effort
than
specific
. So it implied that you think less effort -> scummy. I wanted to test that logic by asking if you indeed think that way.

Expedience wrote:I think davesaz is scum because 590 makes no sense.

Emphasis added by me to the 1st quote.

It's a logic thing. Your post was basically If A->B and B->C then A->C. I'm pointing out that B-/>C (does not imply), therefore A->C does not follow.
I know we've played before, and I'm pretty sure you've seen me be logical.

davesaz · Post Post #769 (isolation #23) » Mon Jul 11, 2016 7:05 pm

In post 754, A Song of Ice and Fire wrote:If anything he feels more involved than normal.

Thanks for noticing, I'm a bit wired at finally getting back to my roots, with interesting mechanics, multiple factions, and plurality lynch. It will fade once the next big problem hits at work.

davesaz · Post Post #787 (isolation #24) » Mon Jul 11, 2016 7:12 pm

In post 770, Klingoncelt wrote: It's after 2am my time, I've been running on 4 hours' sleep the past few nights,
<snipped for clarity>

In post 772, Luna Fox wrote:Apparently being (Insert time past midnight) has become the go to solution nowadays.

Just a little comment now while I'm calm, to potentially avoid an explosion later. RL is RL, I expect people to be generally truthful about it, and I expect people to respect it. My RL statement are always true. End PSA.

davesaz · Post Post #803 (isolation #25) » Mon Jul 11, 2016 7:18 pm

In post 777, Expedience wrote:
In post 768, MathBlade wrote:
In post 761, Titus wrote:@Math, You're confbiasing. You do that and you're very frequently wrong, regardless of alignment and you then scumread whoever disagrees.
How am I conf biasing here? I have suggested a theory of you three and potentially Nos on a different team.
Confirmation bias requires a history not just a suggestion when it was my catchup post.

Explain to me how Expedience is town. Because I do not see how me posting my catchup reads upon replace in confirms Expedience as town.
Titus is defending me indirectly and saying that Mathblade is confbiasing implies that she thinks that both Mathblade and I are town. Yet she has never stated this.

Why did you assume this was indirectly defending you? Wasn't Mathblade scum reading Titus? And if that is the case, wouldn't she be responding more to a confbias against her?

davesaz · Post Post #806 (isolation #26) » Mon Jul 11, 2016 7:20 pm

Yeah, post 682, or at least Math put you and Titus "together".

davesaz · Post Post #815 (isolation #27) » Mon Jul 11, 2016 7:27 pm

Actually, when I look back at Mathblade's earlier post, umm what's up with "grouping" people so early anyway?

davesaz · Post Post #820 (isolation #28) » Mon Jul 11, 2016 7:31 pm

In post 807, Expedience wrote:
In post 803, davesaz wrote:
In post 777, Expedience wrote:
In post 768, MathBlade wrote:
In post 761, Titus wrote:@Math, You're confbiasing. You do that and you're very frequently wrong, regardless of alignment and you then scumread whoever disagrees.
How am I conf biasing here? I have suggested a theory of you three and potentially Nos on a different team.
Confirmation bias requires a history not just a suggestion when it was my catchup post.

Explain to me how Expedience is town. Because I do not see how me posting my catchup reads upon replace in confirms Expedience as town.
Titus is defending me indirectly and saying that Mathblade is confbiasing implies that she thinks that both Mathblade and I are town. Yet she has never stated this.
Why did you assume this was indirectly defending you? Wasn't Mathblade scum reading Titus? And if that is the case, wouldn't she be responding more to a confbias against her?
It's not an assumption, that's literally what she's doing in 761.

I have no clue what you're asking me here and I think you misread what I wrote.

What Mathblade post do you think Titus is responding to? Maybe you're seeing more context than I am.
I thought it was in reply to Math's most recent post before 761, in which they were "cutting Titus some slack".

davesaz · Post Post #824 (isolation #29) » Mon Jul 11, 2016 7:34 pm

Also @Expedience: 755 uses the word "someone" but I haven't seen you call it out.

davesaz · Post Post #836 (isolation #30) » Mon Jul 11, 2016 7:39 pm

In post 821, Salt Squad wrote:3) Town don't take posts like 684 seriously and if they do they ignore it. You are feeling victimized of literally nothing.

Another thing that would be useful for reading LQ. I see this a

lot

. TBH I don't know yet if it's AI.

davesaz · Post Post #848 (isolation #31) » Mon Jul 11, 2016 7:44 pm

So Titus, you went from what Expedience thought was soft defense right into hard. How can you be so sure?
I have him as scum for trying to fit what I'm posting into scum motivation, but I have a weakness for OMGUSing people and want to check it vs. other evidence.

davesaz · Post Post #861 (isolation #32) » Mon Jul 11, 2016 7:53 pm

In post 832, Titus wrote:
In post 829, A Song of Ice and Fire wrote:I can't see why expe wagon formed.

people just voted him.

someone explain why they felt the aggression and calling so many people scum is scummy

~Ice
This is the short version of why Expedience is town aside from Math's push.

I found this and wanted to follow up to it separately. How is "people just voted him" an indication of town, in a multi-faction game? Or any game for that matter, wagons do form and sometimes they are on scum.

davesaz · Post Post #880 (isolation #33) » Mon Jul 11, 2016 8:07 pm

In post 877, Luna Fox wrote:
In post 873, Titus wrote:I'll admit this is a unique setup with multiple town factions, but I am supposing that town and scum still behave similarly and human = town.
Human is most definitely town.
There's also at least 1 non human race (mine) that needs to elminate all threats to the human treaty, but i dont know who shares this win condition.
That's pretty much all i've gathered so far.

I'd call that a newb post, if I hadn't looked at your topic list. Did you not pay attention to the earlier discussion that giving scum info is a bad idea. Unless it's misinformation but then town will get after you for lying...

davesaz · Post Post #890 (isolation #34) » Mon Jul 11, 2016 8:13 pm

In post 878, copper223 wrote:
In post 868, Heartless wrote:as a side note i'm not scumreading ceph (cue the "hydra dissonance" whining, yeah bite my ass we'll work it out)

mostly b/c i know ceph well enough to know that being pointlessly argumentative isnt alignment indicative for him
This is true but trying to control the game-flow is and in my admittedly limited catch-up he gave me that impression when scoffing at reads, he is being destructive possibly cause that's not where he wants the game to go whereas when he is argumentative as town he wants to guide you to what he thinks is right.

Thoughts on anyone else?

davesaz · Post Post #894 (isolation #35) » Mon Jul 11, 2016 8:21 pm

In post 892, Heartless wrote:that's kind of an odd post to pick out and then ask for other reads....

Iso copper -- see practically empty page -- ask if there are more thoughts. Not rocket science...

davesaz · Post Post #901 (isolation #36) » Mon Jul 11, 2016 8:34 pm

@No Retreat: Is that Nero? You're just as wrong here as you have been in every game I can think of offhand.

davesaz · Post Post #902 (isolation #37) » Mon Jul 11, 2016 8:34 pm

I'll do analysis tomorrow, after I see if any answers come back.

davesaz · Post Post #1147 (isolation #38) » Tue Jul 12, 2016 7:28 am

I have read to 1066, started doing deep analysis on someone, and had a work meeting that I had to play close attention to.
Y'all underperformed overnight and my prediction of 50 pages by wakeup time did not come true. lol
Once I hit submit on this quick reply I'll see how many more pages I need to catch up. I'm betting on at least 10 more...

davesaz · Post Post #1164 (isolation #39) » Tue Jul 12, 2016 8:42 am

So to begin analysis I decided to ISO Expedience, both because of his interactions with me and because of the wagon on him.

Spoiler: Expe iso

Interactions with other players and analysis:
Song: Early in the game said they were scummy, would vote them. Later in the game 990 said he attacked them to find their alignment. No other evidence in ISO that he's doing anything to find their alignment.

Tim: Says he's town in early game. No further interactions that I noticed.

Wayward: Says their entrance was town, by way of comment to a post by Tim. Explained the read vaguely. Replied to a question from them. Defended them from Salt. Defended again, "painfully town". This all seems consistent, although the reasoning is vague. Strangely, no direct interaction via quote, though I could have missed some back/forth which had no quotes.

Luna: Says she's scum, but gives lol for a reason. Claims she's only pretending to scum read him, point out her admission that she OMGUS's as a scum claim. In 539 he as much as admits to Nahdia that he was joking. In 988 he clearly says his scum read is caused by her OMGUS (which was caused by his scum read). In 1033 he claims she's lying about their (brief) history by pointing out a game where he trolled her and she got mad -- which is exactly what he's doing here!

Well now, I should have just listened to my gut I think. In my exchanges with him I immediately thought he was trying to twist our conversation to a place where he could scumread me, but I doubted it because I have a weakness for thinking that. Turns out on a deeper look at his Luna read, he led her straight into doing what he's scum reading her for, and he admitted that he knew she would react exactly the way she did. Repeat after me, manipulation ahoy!

VOTE: Expedience

davesaz · Post Post #1167 (isolation #40) » Tue Jul 12, 2016 8:51 am

In post 1166, Cephrir wrote:im not reading these Handwritten Notes(tm)

If that's to me, it's spoilered on purpose.

If it's not to me, then who is it to?

davesaz · Post Post #1188 (isolation #41) » Tue Jul 12, 2016 9:22 am

1184 had a quote failure, given the two quotes were from different players?

Pedit: oh, ok. Why do they suck? (I have an opinion, interested in yours)

davesaz · Tue Jul 12, 2016 11:26 am

In post 1207, RAM wrote:This is a pretty disgusting post, though.

Why do you think that?

A pokes B
B yells
A scumread B for yelling
B yells some different stuff
A scumreads B for yelling different stuff

It's pretty damn clear to me that the problem here was A poking B.

A reveals that he has purposefully poked B before.

Not a bad conclusion that A did it on purpose here too.

davesaz · Tue Jul 12, 2016 11:29 am

@RAM Not sure which head that is -- but it's well known that I'm primarily a logic guy -- just not quite well known enough I guess.

davesaz · Tue Jul 12, 2016 11:31 am

@Expedience, you quoted my question in a reply to someone else but never addressed it.

Why are you concerned about, what was the term, vague posting from one person (the post I asked you about) but not from other people (the 2nd one where I asked why you didn't respond to it).

davesaz · Tue Jul 12, 2016 11:39 am

In post 1250, dramonic wrote:It's disturbing that you guys can read these posts and think Expe's scum and not deranged town. You guys ableist or something?

In my case it's that I see what I think is clear scum motivation in the form of circular logic.
Are you legitimately seeing the fallacies and still think they're coming from town?
I have to say, I don't find you easy to read because you usually jump straight to a conclusion with little or no basis. But there have been places where you were right.

davesaz · Tue Jul 12, 2016 11:42 am

In post 1255, Luna Fox wrote:I'm most likely to vote on ppl out of PoE at this point.

Whoa, PoE in a 28 player in d1?
That's going to take a heap of explaining.

davesaz · Tue Jul 12, 2016 11:49 am

In post 1234, Cephrir wrote:yeah ok

VOTE: Almost50

In post 1246, BBmolla wrote:UNVOTE:
VOTE: Almost50

I'm not going to say these votes are a bad thing.
Saying a little more about why you're voting would improve our chances of reading you.

davesaz · Tue Jul 12, 2016 11:50 am

In post 1270, Luna Fox wrote:If it's a likelihood what was the point of dave's question.

What did you mean when you said PoE?

davesaz · Post Post #1316 (isolation #49) » Tue Jul 12, 2016 1:15 pm

In post 1297, dramonic wrote:I don't jump with little to no basis. If I make a call it's because I'm confident in it. I'm seeing the fallacies, but they're not reading fabricated, they're reading oblivious.

Sorry, I should clarify. You rarely state what the basis is, which makes it look to me that you have none.

davesaz · Post Post #1322 (isolation #50) » Tue Jul 12, 2016 1:26 pm

In post 1316, Cephrir wrote:
In post 1271, davesaz wrote:
In post 1234, Cephrir wrote:yeah ok

VOTE: Almost50

In post 1246, BBmolla wrote:UNVOTE:
VOTE: Almost50
I'm not going to say these votes are a bad thing.
Saying a little more about why you're voting would improve our chances of reading you.
i already indicated my dislike of his awful non-content stack of waffles

i think it came from scum

Right, my mistake. Would it be jumping to conclusions to say you delayed the vote to see if Almost did anything?

Molla on the other hand said he hated it but nothing about why, in a post quoting Heartless saying the same thing.

What I like the least about it is listing everyone. It's fake as hell to me to have every slot listed with something there, because to make such a list would require seriously paying attention and if paying that much attention there should be more to the list. I can't really see a motivation to a full player list unless he's

trying to look town

. Town should just

be

town.

davesaz · Post Post #1324 (isolation #51) » Tue Jul 12, 2016 1:29 pm

BTW the lampshading post just made it worse.

davesaz · Post Post #1859 (isolation #52) » Wed Jul 13, 2016 5:13 am

This is what I had on Expedience's interactions with Wayward, as of around post 1033. I did not update it since that point.

I wrote: Says their entrance was town, by way of comment to a post by Tim. Explained the read vaguely. Replied to a question from them. Defended them from Salt. Defended again, "painfully town". This all seems consistent, although the reasoning is vague. Strangely, no direct interaction via quote, though I could have missed some back/forth which had no quotes.

What I found interesting back then was a lack of obvious direct interaction with Wayward, at least in the form of quotes. I did not check the opposite direction though.

davesaz · Post Post #2123 (isolation #53) » Wed Jul 13, 2016 5:11 pm

@Dram, regarding 2113, can you give a sentence or two for each post saying why it's town?

davesaz · Post Post #2155 (isolation #54) » Wed Jul 13, 2016 5:41 pm

In post 2129, dramonic wrote:@Dave: I've given reason for why those quotes are town literally one post earlier.

You said they have a town mindset, generically.
I want something specific about each post that says it is a town mindset.
Not general
Each post.
Man up.

davesaz · Post Post #2185 (isolation #55) » Wed Jul 13, 2016 6:47 pm

I'm not sure on Dram. Gut says town and it kinda matches Musical, but it would be awfully easy to do the exact same thing as scum. Which is why I'd like some more details.

Almost's behavior still says scum. The claim might be easy to fake, depends on whether the mod provides fakeclaim info or not. I don't like that being the only thin thread tying him to town.

I'm equally as skeptical of DGB's reads as I was of Almost's. It seems unlikely to be able to have a read on everyone.

Pedit @Dram, no I'm not a sadist, but even just a couple of them? Actual reasons and not OMG this is so towny. Yes, I'm exaggerating, you have said more than that, but it would really help.

davesaz · Post Post #2226 (isolation #56) » Wed Jul 13, 2016 7:57 pm

I don't want to let Exp go completely, but I can see Dram's point well enough to move him back to nullish.
UNVOTE:

davesaz · Post Post #2232 (isolation #57) » Wed Jul 13, 2016 8:06 pm

I generally agree with 2134. Can't rule out there possibly being even scummier posts, but those would definitely be in the running.

davesaz · Thu Jul 14, 2016 10:01 am

Doing an ISO and ran across this.

In post 921, Wayward Thinker wrote:It has come to my attention that rb may have scum slipped.

The start of the sentence sounds like someone pointed this out to you. Where did that occur?

davesaz · Thu Jul 14, 2016 10:24 am

The reason I did that ISO was to find out why WT are being scumread, since the divide between those townreading and scumreading the slot is quite deep. I looked at 1434 (which was cited as a major reason for the scumread) and the positions taken there are pretty reasonable. If the argument about that post was that it's too narrowly focused, that might be valid, but I don't buy into the notion that this post falls short of making points. I'm not too fond of the lack of followup on the points made there, but this game is already an excellent example of why lack of followup isn't AI by itself.

The more telling thing IMO is that the slot's overall focus is quite narrow and they seem to be actively avoiding the main controversies in the thread. This suggests trying to fly under the radar. So while the often-referenced 1434 isn't bad in its own right, the overall pattern is scummy.

davesaz · Post Post #2611 (isolation #60) » Thu Jul 14, 2016 2:47 pm

In post 2601, Tim wrote:
In post 2563, davesaz wrote:The reason I did that ISO was to find out why WT are being scumread, since the divide between those townreading and scumreading the slot is quite deep. I looked at 1434 (which was cited as a major reason for the scumread) and the positions taken there are pretty reasonable. If the argument about that post was that it's too narrowly focused, that might be valid, but I don't buy into the notion that this post falls short of making points. I'm not too fond of the lack of followup on the points made there, but this game is already an excellent example of why lack of followup isn't AI by itself.

The more telling thing IMO is that the slot's overall focus is quite narrow and they seem to be actively avoiding the main controversies in the thread. This suggests trying to fly under the radar. So while the often-referenced 1434 isn't bad in its own right, the overall pattern is scummy.
So... are you going to vote them? Or are you still contemplating other options?

I actually think the opposite though. A narrow focus isn't of itself bad. It's difficult to make broad assessments in a 100 page game in 3 days. I certainly can't, but 1434 is just point-quote-point vomit, if you can stomach calling those "points"

I'm disappointed that there was only one comment to that post, and it came from a null (properly speaking a "no read") instead of a townread. But I guess I'll take what I can get.
Yes, narrow isn't prima facie scummy in a superlarge. I didn't do a good job on putting the emphasis in the right place. They're ignoring controversial topics, the way I see it, and that's the important part as it shows a degree of laying low. More AI than merely lurking.

VOTE: WT

davesaz · Fri Jul 15, 2016 11:08 am

Strange couple days for RL. Marking the end of page 110 as the point where I started reading to catch up.

davesaz · Post Post #3542 (isolation #62) » Sat Jul 16, 2016 7:15 am

Ugh, I got interrupted on page 112 and have not been able to come back since.
TBH, I don't think I'll have time to do more than skim the intervening 30 pages. Which may be what some people are doing already...

davesaz · Post Post #3559 (isolation #63) » Sat Jul 16, 2016 7:28 am

In post 3329, Wake1 wrote:
@Everyone

When Titus is Town, is she more calm and passive... or aggressive and stubborn?

I think more aggressive and stubborn, but the sample has more open than theme and more mini than large.

davesaz · Post Post #3588 (isolation #64) » Sat Jul 16, 2016 8:01 am

In post 3577, A Song of Ice and Fire wrote:my case on kuroi is basically a defense from his case on me

What did this mean if it's not an OMGUS?

Caught up (mostly skimmed) from the last VC. Tim (I think...) was right, the noise to signal ratio is pretty high.

Pedit: You just finished two scumgames where you were townread for emotional posting? I'd call that comment scummy if it weren't so obviously bad logic to post it.

davesaz · Post Post #3608 (isolation #65) » Sat Jul 16, 2016 8:49 am

In post 3593, A Song of Ice and Fire wrote:
In post 3589, davesaz wrote:What did this mean if it's not an OMGUS?
he made a shitty case on me after i said he is scumread of me. you may call it an omgus of omgus then?

I defended myself proved why he is lieing and why that makes him scum.

~Ice

Ah, that makes sense. <Part of> your case on him is your defense of his case on you. I don't think it's AI for you to do that, unless your counter is equally shady. Either alignment would try to take apart a bad case.

If his counterattack is indeed based on twisting things then that would be scummy.

davesaz · Post Post #3609 (isolation #66) » Sat Jul 16, 2016 8:52 am

In post 3605, dramonic wrote:If I don't snark every few hours I spontaneously combust

Yeah, that's the Dram I know.

davesaz · Sat Jul 16, 2016 11:57 am

Wow folks, no need to take Titus that literally. 2 hours of dead stop? Not that I'm complaining about tapping the brakes, but no need for a panic stop.

I'm willing to switch in the interest of progress, given I'm scumreading both of them.
VOTE: Kuroi

Titus, I think you might have been the one who called my WT post "side-eye". What did that mean? I had a reason to vote them, which may not be the best reason ever given but it's genuine.

davesaz · Post Post #4153 (isolation #68) » Wed Jul 20, 2016 7:02 pm

In post 4112, Luna Fox wrote: HEY
YOU REALIZE
WE GOT A FACTION COP SCAN ON SS
AND IT SAID A DIFFERENT FACTION THAN WHAT THEY CLAIMED!

So I was trying to follow what you're saying about this.

Did the same person check Faction, Nation, Location on SS, or two different people checked, one using Faction and the other using Nation/Location? Canonical redirect mechanisms would redirect everyone who targeted a given player, so you're asking the probability that the redirect target would match nation/location but not faction?

Also the "faction" result was "isolationist"? That's flat out weird even given the weirdness we've already seen. Any chance your (neighborhood?) faction checker is giving a weird result for lols, to see what happens?

Pedit: damn I type slow.

VOTE: Salt Squad

If it's cult, it's a priority IMO.

davesaz · Post Post #4166 (isolation #69) » Wed Jul 20, 2016 7:07 pm

In post 4142, Wake1 wrote:
This game contains an entity called the
Destroyer of Worlds
.

That's nice, but why did you preface with the "I got a message" thing?
What do you think about it?
Pedit: why do people need to share it with you?

davesaz · Post Post #4172 (isolation #70) » Wed Jul 20, 2016 7:08 pm

This forum needs a "submit the damn post and don't show things that were posted inbetween button". Seriously 8 times hitting submit!

davesaz · Post Post #4538 (isolation #71) » Thu Jul 21, 2016 5:55 am

Yay, I'm all caught up. LLD and SS could both be scum, but I continue to think we are better off focusing on the faction cop result. If Luna is the actual faction cop (as it now seems she is claiming), and not just someone from a hood reporting what another hood member said, then she's reporting the faction correctly (within the bounds of a bastard game) or she's lying and scum and our lynch tomorrow. Furthermore if she's scum then the whole neighborhood thing could be a ruse and we get a bunch of suspects.

davesaz · Post Post #4547 (isolation #72) » Thu Jul 21, 2016 5:58 am

BTW I don't get the point of starting off

assuming

a redirection is possible. Do we have some kind of evidence that one even exists?

davesaz · Post Post #4585 (isolation #73) » Thu Jul 21, 2016 6:18 am

In post 4579, Salt Squad wrote:
In post 4578, Cephrir wrote:the constant one day refrain just makes me think you have a powerful one-shot ability
No I can literally conf myself as town.

If you're scum and you successfully recruit, your target becomes scum with you and says you're town.
If your recruit fails we learn nothing whatsoever.
You don't get confirmed either way. Either we hear from someone we can't trust, or we don't. But it is an argument that scum would make to

try

to get confirmed.

davesaz · Thu Jul 21, 2016 10:55 am

Someone asked for exasperated smiley.

davesaz · Post Post #5108 (isolation #75) » Fri Jul 22, 2016 4:42 am

In post 5082, Luna Fox wrote:I can confirm there's only Undead or Wulden in the PT, but it's in a connotation that includes them as if they are the bad guys/infiltrators. We've all been thinking Wulden is possibly our enemy, I do disagree that necessarily ALL wulden are our enemies.

copper still scum, however.

P-Edit: nice find Ceph.

Have you considered the possibility that all of the PT are race=undead but one or more of them could be a different faction? I believe it goes something like "some you think are allies are actually enemies". And if there are any undead in a scum faction they would have fakeclaims, in particular it would follow that they must have the wincon available to fakeclaim.

It goes both ways, wulden doesn't necessarily imply scum, and undead doesn't necessarily imply town.

I think we should be playing this more like a mafia game, looking for scummy behavior.

pedit: And I got ninja'd on a faction could include multiple races. Oh well, story of this game.

davesaz · Post Post #5133 (isolation #76) » Fri Jul 22, 2016 5:09 am

In post 5111, Luna Fox wrote:
In post 5109, davesaz wrote:
In post 5082, Luna Fox wrote:I can confirm there's only Undead or Wulden in the PT, but it's in a connotation that includes them as if they are the bad guys/infiltrators. We've all been thinking Wulden is possibly our enemy, I do disagree that necessarily ALL wulden are our enemies.

copper still scum, however.

P-Edit: nice find Ceph.
Have you considered the possibility that all of the PT are race=undead but one or more of them could be a different faction? I believe it goes something like "some you think are allies are actually enemies". And if there are any undead in a scum faction they would have fakeclaims, in particular it would follow that they must have the wincon available to fakeclaim.

It goes both ways, wulden doesn't necessarily imply scum, and undead doesn't necessarily imply town.

I think we should be playing this more like a mafia game, looking for scummy behavior.

pedit: And I got ninja'd on a faction could include multiple races. Oh well, story of this game.
So there's still scum in the hood, your point?

My point is that endlessly discussing the race / location / nation results is not scumhunting. It's useful for generating reactions, but the reaction should be the topic of discussion, not the results. Someone gets outed as xyz, do they flip out, lie about the results, acknowledge the truth, etc? And look at the person doing the outing, is it done to pursue a scumread, throw shade on the game, manipulate people?

In your hood, was anyone especially interested in who you were going to target? If there is a redirector this could lead to them.

Why would scum deliberately redirect you onto someone they know is scum? N1 the only scum they are certain about is themselves. The smart scum move is to let your action go through, because they want you to accidentally find another scum team. If they know who your target will be they may redirect to save a buddy, but your result is something that scum want. Logically your result is accurate because if there were scum in your hood they would want the accurate result. And if it's inaccurate then SS are probably scum anyway, and buddy of the spy.

I haven't ruled out the possibility that you are scum giving a false guilty, but it seems unlikely. You brought up redirection yourself, which would be an easy excuse if your target flips something other than what you reported. But I don't think you're scum from your other actions, because you are not playing guarded like I'd expect. As Math put it, no pants, which to me says likely town. (yes Math, some people are reading your posts). Even so, I never assume my read is accurate until the mod flips it.

Either way, logic says that SS is probably scum, unless you are.

davesaz · Post Post #5141 (isolation #77) » Fri Jul 22, 2016 5:19 am

In post 5138, rb wrote:@davesaz: can we not discuss scum-strategy?

Like you're saying we should be scumhunting and that all this nation/location stuff is unhelpful, then you go and discuss scum strategy in the next paragraph :/

It's impossible to discuss the likelihood of a redirect, and therefore the accuracy of the result, without mentioning what someone with a scum motivation might want to do. Yes, I get what you're saying about not giving scum ideas, but we're ignoring a perfectly fine result because of really bad assumptions about when a redirect, if any, would be used.

davesaz · Post Post #5158 (isolation #78) » Fri Jul 22, 2016 6:54 am

In post 5155, RAM wrote:Cool. I think there's no further benefit to discussing things about the race and such then. It is entirely possible for race and faction to be wholly independent. There is some degree of mechanical evidence(based on the universal undead claims in your PT) that at least one wulden is anti-town. Slightly weaker mechanical evidence that at least one undead is anti-town.

Why didn't you investigate your own PT Luna? You could have been clearing your own PT at a rate of 2 per night, between discovering individuals within the PT who had a different wincon, and using dramonics racial cop to find those who had fake claimed. I understand the others may not have claimed, but there is little reason to not turn your neighborhood into a masonry.

I ask this because I, as I've said repeatedly, find SS's reaction to your result unlikely to come from scum in the circumstances of this game. The line of reasoning I presented, that is, that you investigating within the PT is optimal, should have come up in your conversations in the PT, and if so/depending on your reaction to it, may have made a deliberate attempt to frame other members of the PT as scum likely. Of course, it's possible it was simply random target selection, rather than a deliberate attempt to frame(though random selection when any faction that shows up as differing from your own is an effective guilty is basically an attempt to frame).

Either way, the point is IF such redirection exists(that is, source based redirection, rather than target based(a redirector versus a bus driver)), I'm pretty certain there is no other role(other than a vig) that would be a better target for redirection.

-Cerb

If the redirector was scum inside the PT and wanted to prevent a guilty on themselves, how would they choose whom to send the redirect to? It seems pretty implausible that they would pick a random player outside the PT as a target, given the possibility of a guilty for a different reason.

davesaz · Post Post #5163 (isolation #79) » Fri Jul 22, 2016 7:29 am

In post 5161, RAM wrote:This is all speculation though. I can tell you how I would utilize such an ability as scum in that situation, but I don't know how someone else would. :-/

This much I can agree with. We should just ignore the WIFOM and treat it like a real result. No guarantees but I think it's best to apply Occam's razor - most likely reason for a guilty result is an actual guilty.

davesaz · Post Post #5778 (isolation #80) » Sun Jul 24, 2016 9:28 am

Starting to read up, top of page 227. As of the end of 226 things looks pretty clear, making a note to myself to see who actively resists the wagons in case of scum flip.

davesaz · Post Post #5783 (isolation #81) » Sun Jul 24, 2016 9:43 am

In post 5714, Stormblade wrote:Idea: let's not lynch the watcher that can verify the faction cop's results.
-Nahdia

What if the watcher is the redirector, who claimed watcher against the person she redirected? She'd be "confirming" that player's results while hiding her real ability in plain sight. And in that case she wouldn't have redirected Luna at all, but someone else. (don't remember who was claimed as the watcher target, and it's immaterial to this point anyway) Remember it's a closed game and we can't 100% believe any claim until it's proven another way.

Note, this hypothesis would mean that the KC slot is also scum, but at this point I still feel the SS slot is a stronger case. KC could be a real watcher who just made a targeting choice that some people feel was less than optimal.

davesaz · Post Post #5784 (isolation #82) » Sun Jul 24, 2016 9:45 am

In post 5715, Luna Fox wrote:I hope you realize that my wincon is at risk by lynching in the hood without certainty of the existance of scum in it

The way I read it, your wincon is only in serious danger once there is only one of you left. I can't blame you for the slippery slope thinking, but if there is scum there we'll eventually need to eliminate it. Because if we don't find the scum, it's not just your faction but all the town factions at risk.

davesaz · Post Post #5787 (isolation #83) » Sun Jul 24, 2016 9:58 am

Which I why I already said, use the simplest explanation -- SS claims a different faction than a faction cop's result, and the mod confirms what a faction result would contain, then SS must be lying. Since faction determines scum/town (/cult) it's the one thing in this game that we can count on. Does "Isolationist" sound like it goes with a town wincon of "(new) human treaty"? I'd say not.

davesaz · Sun Jul 24, 2016 10:07 am

If he flips town with the faction name he claimed, then Luna is scum or there is a scum redirector in the hood (which could be KC slot). That should be pretty obvious.
If he flips with the faction name Luna claimed and a town wincon, then it's pretty illogical and I'll be lost until we get a scum flip. I don't do well with illogical things.

davesaz · Post Post #6185 (isolation #85) » Thu Jul 28, 2016 3:30 pm

Reminder to myself, catchup was paused at bottom of page 237.

davesaz · Post Post #6485 (isolation #86) » Wed Aug 03, 2016 5:08 am

@Almost: RL had me so tied up that I only read a few pages of yesterday. The thread was locked before I got back to trying to catch up.

Anyone have suggestions of what to read from yesterday, if anything?

davesaz · Post Post #6487 (isolation #87) » Wed Aug 03, 2016 5:11 am

Isn't it more correct to say there are individual (insert race) in town?

davesaz · Post Post #6490 (isolation #88) » Wed Aug 03, 2016 5:15 am

I took Wake's stuff to be a Keymaster/Gatekeeper thing. I assume his gatekeeper didn't respond, since we'd probably lynch anyone who claimed to be a destroyer. Maybe it was just Wake announcing "don't kill me" to his counterpart.
Or you could be right about it being a lol SK claim. Have we hit 10 different factions yet? :crazyeye:

davesaz · Post Post #6506 (isolation #89) » Wed Aug 03, 2016 5:46 am

In post 6498, No Retreat wrote:
In post 6490, davesaz wrote:I took Wake's stuff to be a Keymaster/Gatekeeper thing.
Why do you think town would do that?

Umm, don't think I implied that it makes Wake town. It would be antitown to speculate on reasons town might do it.

davesaz · Post Post #6508 (isolation #90) » Wed Aug 03, 2016 6:21 am

In post 4538, davesaz wrote:Yay, I'm all caught up. LLD and SS could both be scum, but I continue to think
we are better off focusing on the faction cop result
. If Luna is the actual faction cop (as it now seems she is claiming), and not just someone from a hood reporting what another hood member said, then she's reporting the faction correctly (within the bounds of a bastard game) or she's lying and scum and our lynch tomorrow. Furthermore if she's scum then the whole neighborhood thing could be a ruse and we get a bunch of suspects.

Reminder of the reason I wanted SS D2. It was a

faction cop result

. In a normal game the comparison would be a cop result on SS vs a rolecop on LLD that gave a likely to be scum role. You lynch the cop guilty and go after the other "guilty" later. That's what you do.

As for D3, as I said I was very busy RL and didn't even get to read the thread before y'all had hammered. Yay town, sorry I couldn't lay a hand on the noose but things happen.

davesaz · Post Post #6510 (isolation #91) » Wed Aug 03, 2016 6:31 am

davesaz · Post Post #6511 (isolation #92) » Wed Aug 03, 2016 6:33 am

In post 6506, davesaz wrote:
It would be antitown to speculate on reasons town might do it.

Likewise it's antitown to reveal such a possible reason when neither player is actually under pressure.

Fakeclaim perhaps?

davesaz · Post Post #6514 (isolation #93) » Wed Aug 03, 2016 6:37 am

Is that also a claim that the "destroyer" thing was to connect unconnected masons? If it's no longer necessary to hunt for 4th/5th party that's at least a little useful to town.
Pedit: that too

davesaz · Post Post #6522 (isolation #94) » Wed Aug 03, 2016 7:20 am

In post 6521, DrippingGoofball wrote:ok so are we lynching then

I checked your ISO, perhaps we should be lynching you. I believe you said at one point that you would vote anyone?

davesaz · Post Post #6523 (isolation #95) » Wed Aug 03, 2016 7:22 am

Off to work, hopefully it won't be another case of coming up for air 2+ days later.

davesaz · Post Post #6645 (isolation #96) » Thu Aug 04, 2016 8:07 am

In post 6642, DrippingGoofball wrote: Yeah but I'm conftown so I can totally coast

Eh? Where is this confirmation you speak of?

davesaz · Thu Aug 04, 2016 12:58 pm

The spy angle is pretty logical, and a bunch of people here know how much I love logical things, but I'm wary of it being bait. Having said that, I think it's dangerous enough that it needs resolving sooner or later. I'd definitely prefer something a bit more concrete but there are still weeks left to switch if something juicier shows up.
VOTE: Bacde

davesaz · Post Post #6781 (isolation #98) » Fri Aug 05, 2016 5:21 am

See wagons? Comment on them.

davesaz · Post Post #6793 (isolation #99) » Fri Aug 05, 2016 7:01 am

In post 6793, Toogeloo wrote:LLD was outed by the Isolationists. Basically, Day 2 was mafia team 1 vs. mafia team 2 vs. bacde for who to lynch. Securing the Isolationist lynch helped drive the lynch on LLD.

I reread page 1, and I think we are making a few errors here...

All factions with a non-human entity have a one use human recruitment power. This isn't the Cult, though it sounds almost cult like. By the sounds of it, this action fails on some individuals naturally, but also fails if the same human player is targeted by two different recruitmemts again the same time. This is the only thing I saw in regards to Human recruitment.

The sentence afterwards says there is a cult in this game, be warned. No limitation on who the Cult can claim. I'm thinking we've mistakenly assumed only humans can be culted.

This would fit in with mastin's repeated confirmations that flavor =/= mechanics. I think you're right.

davesaz · Fri Aug 05, 2016 10:00 am

No longer concerned about spies, gotcha.

Can you give me a thumbnail on a no retreat case? I'm happy to look at things given a hint of what to look for, but so much happened that I didn't have time to read that the hints would really help a lot.

davesaz · Fri Aug 05, 2016 8:49 pm

In post 6818, Expedience wrote:?_?

this feels like rvs

Nosferatu is person most likely to be town -> cult

In post 6819, RachMarie wrote:why do you think that?

In post 6822, Expedience wrote:
In post 6819, RachMarie wrote:why do you think that?
1000% gut.

No Retreat, if you claim and I believe you, I will also claim. Otherwise you can see that a wagon will build on you until deadline, and then you'll have to claim at the last minute and you might be more likely to get lynched.

In post 6830, No Retreat wrote:yes, lets claim and give scum more information. Stop shit posting.

In post 6837, DrippingGoofball wrote:
In post 6830, No Retreat wrote:yes, lets claim and give scum more information. Stop shit posting.
read my sig

buh-bye

In post 6842, Expedience wrote:
In post 6830, No Retreat wrote:yes, lets claim and give scum more information. Stop shit posting.
but if i'm scum how does it give scum more information? ',:^)

In post 6843, Nosferatu wrote:
In post 6842, Expedience wrote:
In post 6830, No Retreat wrote:yes, lets claim and give scum more information. Stop shit posting.
but if i'm scum how does it give scum more information? ',:^)
I'm so confused by this post

Very interesting sequence.

A gut read with this many posts? (yes, I omitted a statistics post, don't remember who posted that one TBH, and can't take the time to check them right now as it's almost 1am) But in the same post asking NR to claim -- what? How is that relevant to the discussion on Nos? I don't like the non-sequitur feeling about this sequence of posts. Can't pin down who/what bothers me, again it's 1am and not able to concentrate. Just something is off. If anything this is a reminder to myself to look at it.

davesaz · Fri Aug 05, 2016 8:54 pm

In post 6845, rb wrote:Not to mention this case only seems to occur once I actually question the legitimacy of A50's claims :^)

It's a little too early to worry about LYLO but if we get that far can we afford to let A50 live, presumably having not been checked by anyone? A hard BP claim is such a wonderful place for scum or even cult to hide in a game with this mechanics. And if your observation is correct that people who question A50 get pushed, then does that point to teamwork?

davesaz · Sat Aug 06, 2016 11:09 am

Ugh, sorry a squirrel ran in front of me and I chased it.
I'll try to spend real time on this later, after back to school shopping for the kids.

davesaz · Sat Aug 06, 2016 6:38 pm

@exp: Likely yes, confirmed no.
That would be easy to fakeclaim, especially given the flavor name was public all along.
But I'm more interested in Bacde who could still be a spy in the hood, or No Retreat.

davesaz · Sat Aug 06, 2016 6:50 pm

In post 6969, Expedience wrote:Bacde literally can't be wulden why would there be an undead in a faction called "wulden", their topic specifically says that it's a wulden spy, I think at least.

I don't think it is a given that factions are racially pure. There could be a wulden faction member who is another race (undead) and spying on the faction that is primarily that race.
It wouldn't be likely for this to be a possibility if it hadn't been mentioned specifically. It's just a question of whether it is safe to confirm someone with that possibility still out there.

davesaz · Sun Aug 07, 2016 5:45 pm

Last weekend before my kids go back to school. Fun...

Wasn't Wake one of the people who was ranting about not knowing if he was town?
Wouldn't a

role

of

Mason

pretty well assure that?

@Heartless, I don't see why being open to possibilities of mixed race factions is scummy. The people who have played with me should know that I always keep an open mind on everything short of mod confirmations. Granted I haven't kept fully up with reading every single page, there are 30 or more that I haven't. Having LLD's lynch happen during a RL week from hell makes me look bad. But look at the good -- the inconsistency that I saw and pushed in SS v. Luna netted us scum. I think the Klingon / Bacde slot has some inconsistencies. I've been asking for thumbnail cases on other suspects because if it's a better case I'm happy to help.

Pedit: Let me get this straight, you got a nation result and you use that to blackmail a champion into outing himself?

davesaz · Mon Aug 08, 2016 6:44 am

Wrong word -- uncertainties. It is clear what my position on that is. I'm not willing to drop it but I've said that I've been willing to look at another case.

In reply to Exp: Individual <race> nation checker, human treaty wincon.

I'd prefer to keep race quiet, we've collectively revealed too much. If a race checker wants to out a result that's fine but volunteering it never made a lot of sense to me. There have been too few humans to make a cult viable unless the cult can recruit from all races. I could see a "one from each" restriction as a possible way to keep a reasonable limit.

If

that were the case, the less info the cult has about race the better. Not to mention the scum factions could still have their recruit and we don't want to help them PoE the remaining undeclared humans (if any).

davesaz · Mon Aug 08, 2016 6:46 am

EBWOP - "not willing to drop it" meaning I'll believe there is no spy when Bacde doesn't flip spy -- not getting to LYLO with that unresolved. It doesn't necessarily have to be today if there is something better.

davesaz · Mon Aug 08, 2016 6:50 am

In post 7044, A Song of Ice and Fire wrote:wake had a huge rant with mod day 2 over the fact he didn't know if he is town and who must he kill and then made a huge show of all towns must be northen tribe idiotic campaign in the same day.

@rb he started all of that show with undead vt claiming

In post 7045, A Song of Ice and Fire wrote:I was just skimming wake posts , It seems he never expressed any doubts about himself,

he was just (genuinely I suppose) confused about other roles like the way I was.

~Ice

Hmm, I think I'm remembering the same rant mentioned in the 1st post, but I didn't go back and look yet due to time constraints.

davesaz · Mon Aug 08, 2016 6:53 pm

Umm, giving my exact "individual faction" wincon would immediately reveal race, which I didn't want to do. So I chose to paraphrase using a town wincon that would leave scum guessing.
You win when all threats to {redacted} are eliminated.

davesaz · Mon Aug 08, 2016 6:55 pm

Why didn't Bacde question it? If anyone

should have

...

davesaz · Mon Aug 08, 2016 7:05 pm

I know my race and faction offhand, have not read my role pm since the game started. Why would flavor matter?
I didn't fakeclaim anything, I paraphrased incorrectly -- because I didn't bother to copy it from my role pm.

davesaz · Mon Aug 08, 2016 8:27 pm

Look, nobody accuses me of lying about "how" I do things. I paraphrased to not reveal info. All you need to know is that it's town. I picked one of the well known town ones, without going back to see the exact wording, because thats what I am. I think I posted that they're all town back when so many people were confused.

davesaz · Tue Aug 09, 2016 12:38 pm

OK, I guess there isn't much alternative. My own damn fault for just flippantly answering instead of copy/pasting the redacted version from my PM.

Provided his result wasn't messed with, he got Human for a result.

davesaz · Tue Aug 09, 2016 2:58 pm

In post 7101, davesaz wrote:Umm, giving my exact
"individual faction"
wincon would immediately reveal
race
, which I didn't want to do.
You win when all threats to
{redacted}
are eliminated.

Relevant parts hilighted.
What was redacted? Race, which I already told you in the original post.

davesaz · Wed Aug 10, 2016 8:40 pm

Any name which appears in a flipped role could easily be adapted into a fakeclaim by careful scum. Was the flavor claim the main reason for that townread?
I can support Exp or WT.

davesaz · Thu Aug 11, 2016 4:36 am

In post 7050, davesaz wrote:In reply to Exp: Individual <race>
nation
checker

It dropped the <race> part when I hilight quoted so the format of that part may not match exactly with the quoted post. I put the race in brackets to show that I was omitting that aspect of my claim -- which is now revealed to be human. Emphasis added to show that I said "nation checker".

davesaz · Thu Aug 11, 2016 4:39 am

As for the design, they might be helpful but with flavor not necessarily matching alignment IMO it's mostly to increase the number of people with night actions, which severely compromises watcher / tracker type roles.

davesaz · Thu Aug 11, 2016 4:43 am

In the interest of making progress I'm willing to defer Bacde. I've been having time issues and RachMarie is taking an approach to the game that I can follow.

VOTE: Wayward Thinker

davesaz · Fri Aug 12, 2016 8:40 am

Doh. Maybe it is useful.

RachMarie, have you and Wake shared your nation/location info with each other?

davesaz · Fri Aug 12, 2016 8:42 am

^ your own info

davesaz · Fri Aug 12, 2016 8:54 am

I want to ask him yours.

davesaz · Fri Aug 12, 2016 4:47 pm

how would you know he was scum with a nos check?
Also what's your nation?

davesaz · Fri Aug 12, 2016 5:00 pm

RachMarie Nation = other.
I'll have to dig through PMs for additional results but this one does check out.

davesaz · Sat Aug 13, 2016 11:08 am

We have a pretty solid track record in this game for jumping on the slightest inconsistency. A few things have netted scum, but I can certainly see scum trying to mislynch someone by turning an innocent mistake into a scum claim.

davesaz · Sat Aug 13, 2016 11:33 am

It's obviously a reply to your previous post. What else would it be?

davesaz · Sat Aug 13, 2016 11:47 am

I'm saying that scum could ask for information in order to catch a discrepancy to use to mislynch someone. I think Exp could be doing that. Whether he's doing it to try to lynch you in particular or just anyone I don't know. Whether you're a mislynch I don't know. I do know that there have been people who tried to mislynch me using that method.

davesaz · Sat Aug 13, 2016 12:03 pm

Nation checks:
Nosferatu - other
RachMarie - other
Heartless - other

Mine is also other.

davesaz · Sat Aug 20, 2016 7:37 pm

Ugh, so far behind. Anyone mind giving a summary of the day?

davesaz · Mon Aug 22, 2016 5:55 pm

I claimed my faction.

davesaz · Fri Sep 02, 2016 9:05 pm

I spent so much time searching the names and terms to try to decode the flavor -- and it turns out to not be based on anything.

This outcome favored town, but a couple things swing a different way and things might be different. For example one of the scum factions calls A50's PGO bluff with a strongman kill...
I do think cult recruiting non-consecutive nights made it pretty unlikely that they could reach a winning position.