Gistou (Over!)

[MathBlade]

/confirm

Gotta run to work. Later y'all.

[MathBlade]

Jesus 20 pages while I am at work. Will catch up late tonight heading to a friend's place.

If there is something I need to see @MathBlade me. Will be checking that before I read up.

[MathBlade]

I would prefer if the discussion was "What's Luna's alignment" instead of "Who's Luna".

Town read on Luna. Still catching up.

[MathBlade]

I want to talk about percentages again.

whyyyyy
Well percentages of someone being scum due to some weird math is fine, i just dont get the benefit of discussing chances of being culted, when the only ones interested in that would be the cult recruiters.

Light scumread on RB right now for posting math instead of content.
Don't get me wrong I love numbers but this is bad.

If y'all want probability numbers I can fucking do that but that leads to a ton of gambler's fallacy and I would rather focus on scum hunting.

[MathBlade]

I think something is very wrong here after a quick skim of D1.

It almost feels like a Titus/Song.../Expedience group exists. Expedience seems to be sheeping Cain+Abel logic and that House issue was originally over whether or not Titus did or did not have a read on Song.

What I am having trouble understanding is that why Titus for all of their posting doesn't seem to comment on the major wagon. Then in 959 they tell KlignonCelt there is a game to comment on.

Something doesn't smell right here.

However the issue is that I do not like Nos's switch from Titus to Expedience either without justification.

I am thinking possibly Nos is opportunistic scum on the Expedience wagon OR Expedience is opportunistic scum sheeping Titus OR that three group is scum together and Nos is opportunistic.

i think this points towards Expedience probably being scum. They started off pressuring the FA slot in the beginning of the pregame and called them hypocritical and then switches onto what Titus was saying soon after. I don't like how close those three slots are.

VOTE: Expedience

[MathBlade]

VCA

oh good i need to add to my wall of self-quotes about vca being shit

Titus is actually very good with VCA - if she's Town.

As Scum, her analysis is a load of wank.

This is an empty statement. What do you think she is now given her likely connection to Expedience I outlined? (Or rather Expedience's possible connection to her?)

[MathBlade]

I think Titus and the

House

heads are Town.

Tell me more about that.

I'll know more later on, but so far we haven't had Wake's Random Wall O' Bullshit, that's always a good sign.

Town House: Fuck you I'm not sorry.
Scum House: Could you go fuck yourself, please?

Titus' nitpicking tunnel looks typical of Town Titus. (Of course the best tell is her legendary Day 3 VCA.)

It's Day 4 VCA in a large. If you're going to call me legendary...Ewwww, then at least get it right.

Second, your house read looks semanticky.

@Math, thanks for confirming expedience as town. P.s. I do have thoughts on expedience. :-p the wagon is rather crappy.

...Pretty sure that is not what I am saying. *glares* Explain.

[MathBlade]

VCA

oh good i need to add to my wall of self-quotes about vca being shit

Titus is actually very good with VCA - if she's Town.

As Scum, her analysis is a load of wank.

This is an empty statement. What do you think she is now given her likely connection to Expedience I outlined? (Or rather Expedience's possible connection to her?)

I admit I'm cutting her some slack due to her illness. Plus you and I

always

scumread her, so I'm cutting some slack there, too.

Anyway, an Expedience flip would tell us some things, no?

I am cutting Titus specifically slack as there are possibilities in which Expedience is just a sheeping scum. What I am more concerned with is why Titus was avoiding commentary on the main wagon, Song's now push on you for your House/C+A read, and why people aren't looking at connected dots to try to see further into the game than meta. There are more than 20 pages. If you don't have something more than "meta" or "gut" my bullshit detector is going off. This is why I want to see Titus's response to how when I vote expedience I am somehow confirming them as town.

Just because you cut someone slack doesn't mean you don't ask questions and that you don't poke around and demonstrate crazy shit you see. It seems like right now those three have a hard on for a House/c+a scumread/lynch. If anything it means you do to see if you are crazy or not. And if I am crazy then someone will point out where it is crazy and not just "give Titus some slack".

[MathBlade]

@Math, You're confbiasing. You do that and you're very frequently wrong, regardless of alignment and you then scumread whoever disagrees.

How am I conf biasing here? I have suggested a theory of you three and potentially Nos on a different team.
Confirmation bias requires a history not just a suggestion when it was my catchup post.

Explain to me how Expedience is town. Because I do not see how me posting my catchup reads upon replace in confirms Expedience as town.

[MathBlade]

No. I am not "centering the game around him being scum". In my catchup post it was possible that Nos was plain lynch shopping.

What I do not like and what seems to not be addressed is the similarity in action and read of those three slots and why the play is so similar. What I am doing is asking questions to figure out what is going on and trying to see what if anything is wrong about my reads.

Therefore I ask again why is Expedience town? This time don't say because "MathBlade can't do a read properly" or "MathBlade sucks" (paraphrasing) and give an actual reason for your town read that you seem to have well before I posted my read.

[MathBlade]

I don't think that makes Expedience town. I think you are terrible but even I don't discredit you that bad.

Yeah, you do Nero imo, but that's a discussion for another time. At least I am telling Math the problem rather than just saying they suck. They are not a bad player if they'd stop trying to fit everything immediately and observe/document the patterns for collaborative discussion, they'd be more effective and possibly easier to work with and correct wrong reads faster. Given I used to do that myself, i figured a direct approach is best.

You want to "help me get better" and a "direct approach" fine.

Teach me how to read people. Start by explaining why Expedience is town without using my posts. Because quite frankly even without what I think is potential associative tells it is still likely Expedience is scum. Show me how I am wrong and how you are right.

[MathBlade]

Guys please respect the pronouns and use they. I know you got introduced to me as that I was Titus's sister but I prefer Titus's sibling snd they.

[MathBlade]

I don't see a reason why expedience is town in that. I see the following
1) You try to paint Expedience similar to me.
2) You use the events of others to explain why Expedience is town as if you are starting from the fact Expedience is town.
3) You waffle on the Expedience read.
4) Disagreement with reads is NAI with 28 players except your reads kinda seem to match up.

Find me posts of Expedience that explain Expedience is town. Show me that mindset.

I am trying to improve as you said I need to.
In fact anyone can answer this. Please show me where I am mistaken.

@davesaz -- It is a thing I do. I look at the main events of the day and question why they unfold the way they do and see what shakes out.

[MathBlade]

I can't see why expe wagon formed.

people just voted him.

someone explain why they felt the aggression and calling so many people scum is scummy

~Ice

This is the short version of why Expedience is town aside from Math's push.

Oh god so much associative tells.

Again I am not excluding the events. I think the events are what make him scum in my intro posts.

Again I am asking find me a post of Expedience's that is townie. If you have a town read on Expedience this shouldn't be hard. If you think I am reading Expedience incorrectly show me their posts and how. Break it down.

I am going to bed I have work in the morning.

[MathBlade]

I hate titus interactions with mathblade.

@Mathblade explain how you felt we three are connected. I called Expe out for shitting me and Titus made a moonlogic approach for townreading me. I feel both are their playstyles and I'm not scumreading eaither. if you feel their scum for doing that step forward and explain what about those interactions got you.

~Ice

Sure thing. Just a sec missed this before.

[MathBlade]

FA your appeal to emotion actually kind of got through to me even though I probably shouldn't let it, so I'll just leave you alone for now.

This post here made me suspicious of you and FA like Expedience invented a reason to get off your wagon. Rather than push him for getting off your wagon for a shitty read you just said something like call it whatever you want. If I felt a player was hypocritical and then did ate to me I would not just "let that shit go."

Post 76 also indicates a potential three way between Titus/Song/FA because Titus says hello town and then Expedience backs it up with a wishy washy response there and it seems like almost no interaction between Titus and Expedience.

Furthermore indicated in post 532 looks like a simple vote color quip but if that is all it was why no Unvote? This makes no sense to me as a quip and instead was potentially a way to bolster Titus/House bullshit.

Between that and the Titus townread drama of FA between Titus and House and Song's recent post with FA I think there is more than enough that hints at potential coalignment.

[MathBlade]

So when my gut pings that dave is possibly scum, i am immediately told that what he's doing is NAI.
But now everyone's scumreading him?

I agree with you here I think one of two possibilities (that are not mutually exclusive) 1) Dave is scum and/or 2) Scum are sheeping you since you are universally town read for cred.

Dave seems to be shooting peripheral comments rather than committing to a read.

[MathBlade]

Good night all.

[MathBlade]

@rb sorry I missed your question before was looking at different things this am and saw it.

All of the posts with percentages at the start of the game don't give any real content or where you stand. The reasoning is that if you have 50 events all at 2% that doesn't actually say what you think as one of these things must be true. it doesn't tell me what YOU think.

However your recent posts are doing a better job at that so you can go in my null reads for now.

[MathBlade]

GLADIATE: EXPEDIENCE

-Nahdia

*cheers* If this is real Halle-freaking-lullah

[MathBlade]

as soon as i cut off my catchup post there's this

838 shows that Luna Fox isn't really scumreading me, only deliberately OMGUSing. This is true because she is consciously aware of her OMGUS.

jesus. titus PLEASE explain to me in what fucking world this is town because i dont think i live in it.

-Nahdia

Nadhia I asked a billion times last night (Cali time) and Titus said "all of them"

But apparently I am an idiot and she must teach me how to read people better. I am still waiting on that explanation.

Titus/Song/Exp yo.

[MathBlade]

The But line is sarcastic FYI ^ I do not believe myself to be an idiot.

[MathBlade]

hi almost

what do you think about WT scumread on Nahdia?

~Ice

I have no read on WT (I'm assuming it's bc LQ is doing all the work so far), but I already am leaning town on Nahdia (but as I said, I can't fully trust her so I need ABR to talk to me before I bank on it. EP is unfortunately a mystery to me, as I genuinely did read him as scum in SS. I wasn't BS'ing there!)

This is sketchy. You said a few posts up you do a read based on the collective slot.
But then you have no read on WT because you think one slot is doing the work.

Which is it Almost50?

FoS Almost50

[MathBlade]

off the top of my head:

Nosferatu is still a light scum read.

Thinking Mathblade could be Scum as well.

Kinda like Titus as Town with their later content.

There was a post by Copper the pinged me, but forgot what it was.

Don't know about your slot yet.

Heartless is prolly Town, even though I don't like the "meh" vote they placed on us.

Don't know about C+A.

Still like No Result or whatever their name is for Town.

Don't like Salt Squads push on me.

The rest I'm just not sure of at all.

You got reasons behind your shade or are you just a beach umbrella moving with the wind?

[MathBlade]

Spelling, formatting, grammar and whatever other errors that makes sense is NOT AI. It should be apparent that they very well may be tired given the time of night it was for them.

I'm actually getting legit annoyed now.

You just repeated what I already fucking said: that I can understand if people have a lapse in spelling/formatting/grammar then that makes sense and isn't something to worry about. The point is that outright scummy things aren't excused by, "I'm tired." I literally fucking said word for word:

"Spelling, formatting, grammar or whatever other errors make sense. Outright saying scummy things isn't excusable by "I'm tired "

Spelling, formatting, grammar or whatever other errors make sense.

Spelling, formatting, grammar or whatever other errors make sense.

And then the thing you come and attack me for is that I'm apparently taking spelling, formatting and grammar as being AI? Fuck off. If you actually turn out to be Town right now, I'm outright blacklisting you and refusing to play any further games with you because this is so fucking dumb that my brain literally hurts.

i'll leave the vote here
VOTE: wayward thinker

the entrance was really wishy-washy around the Post 30 region and most of the stuff around there is safe and setup specy. suzune leaning on rb for the whole "percentages" thing which i never read as SUPER SRS anyway is also meh and nothing awesome's come out of that slot so ... plop

Why are you voting WT over Expedience TTH? What makes them more scummy?

--@rb -- We don't until mastin does or doesn't respond to it.

[MathBlade]

rb is not aligned in the same faction nahdia is; if their scum.

these stuff will be helpful later keep noting them.

~Ice

Anywho off to work I go now.

[MathBlade]

Maybe I was wrong about Titus idk.

This needs to be lynched. Now. Catching up in progress starting from end working back.

If you struggle with a read share thoughts do something...just "idk" is at best filler and at worst scum trying to look authentic versus be authentic.

[MathBlade]

sry ill try 2 use a different michelle obama pic next time but thats my fave one

It's just awful, I hate having to scroll past it.

If you are going to post images please post words with those images as I have trouble reading just a picture. Otherwise it is spam to me.

[MathBlade]

Almost is null. His "readslist" sucked but claiming the PGO type role was pro-town.

alignment and role are two discreet things
alignment and role are two discreet things
alignment and role are two discreet things

SAY IT WITH ME KIDS

alignment and role are two discreet things

And I think Heartless is town
And I think Heartless is town
And I think Heartless is town

[MathBlade]

Maybe I was wrong about Titus idk.

This needs to be lynched. Now. Catching up in progress starting from end working back.

If you struggle with a read share thoughts do something...just "idk" is at best filler and at worst scum trying to look authentic versus be authentic.

I'm doubting my previous scumread on Titus because of her recent posts, and I would think that was obvious if you made even the most cursory attempt to understand what I was trying to say.

You seriously opened the thread, saw a post saying "idk", and then immediately became certain that this person needed to be lynched?

Yes because either you know and are faking it or you are scum and you should be saying something like "I think my Titus scumread is no longer accurate" the latter is just waffle central. This isn't Waffle House.

[MathBlade]

I have been scumreading you for your association with Titus and Song as well. I see nothing so far in my catchup that stops that theory and the fact you are switching off of her when they never answered my question about finding a specific post why you are town is telling.

[MathBlade]

I have no read on WT (I'm assuming it's bc LQ is doing all the work so far), but I already am leaning town on Nahdia (but as I said, I can't fully trust her so I need ABR to talk to me before I bank on it. EP is unfortunately a mystery to me, as I genuinely did read him as scum in SS. I wasn't BS'ing there!)

This is sketchy. You said a few posts up you do a read based on the collective slot.
But then you have no read on WT because you think one

slot

head

is doing the work.

Which is it Almost50?

FoS Almost50

I think you got it backwards. It's not bc "one head" is doing the work I even edited it for you)
It's bc LQ precisely is doing it. I don't think I have any finished games with him so I have no idea if this is his town game or his scum game. So far he hasn't said or done anything to make sniff the air and say: "Oh! I smell a rat!" but nothing he's said or done makes me think he can't be scum either, hence the null read on the slot.

You're right. In terms of site temrs I did have it backwards. However the argument still stands

If you read the collective slot over any of the specific heads posting then you should be able to still analyze the slot. To come back a few posts later and say you can't analyze that slot when you are contradicting yourself is scummy as fuck.

[MathBlade]

The reason I suspect that Titus and I are separate factions is that she wouldn't make the mistake of thinking town has 3 factions if she had the same wincon as I do.

This...So this.

It has a town read.

[MathBlade]

Titus is just scum

I agree with this thought. But you need reasons.

FoS BBMolla

[MathBlade]

I'm most likely to vote on ppl out of PoE at this point.

Whoa, PoE in a 28 player in d1?
That's going to take a heap of explaining.

Because i currently dont feel any of the current wagons, I feel like we're missing something.

It's d1.

In a large.

That's a likelihood.

If it's a likelihood what was the point of dave's question.

PoE implies you have a number of townreads you are unwilling to vote.

D1.

In a large.

You hydra have a town read. As if that wasn't clear from prior events already because of that terribad wagon pushed by Titus/Exp.

[MathBlade]

Salt Squad and Expedience are town.

This is bad.

Titus put away your damn popcorn and post a reason why Expedience is town if you think they are.

[MathBlade]

Vote: Luna Fox

Is there any reason for this?

Confirm Vote: Luna Fox

This is sketchy. Confirming and not explaining? Hell no. I trust Luna. They claimed non human but win with town and I see nothing but towniness from them.

[MathBlade]

Sleep for me people. Good night will check in in the AM.

[MathBlade]

Maybe I was wrong about Titus idk.

This needs to be lynched. Now. Catching up in progress starting from end working back.

If you struggle with a read share thoughts do something...just "idk" is at best filler and at worst scum trying to look authentic versus be authentic.

And what about them being open about their thought process?

This is a joke right?

[MathBlade]

I have been scumreading you for your association with Titus and Song as well. I see nothing so far in my catchup that stops that theory and the fact you are switching off of her when they never answered my question about finding a specific post why you are town is telling.

And these reasons to do pre-flip are almost never good, and they aren't good in your case either.

In contrast multiball is one of the reasons you do preflip associatives as it helps with three things especially in a game this large

1) it forces people to think about WHY events occurred. The majority of people focus on the "last" thing as cause when this is not always the case.
2) In a game of multiball seeing someone react about being linked with someone can be a huge tell of either alignment.
3) It forces people to get out of dropping "X is scum" "y is scum" blanket statements and provide reasons. Something this game sorely lacks.

Like for example you scum read me without any reason other than "I don't like how you read people". That is garbage.

If anyone has a scumread on someone else they should do more than "X is scum". Reasons are like air. We need them to survive and think properly.

See here is an example: 1407 is horrible because in a D1 large we should have no babies. At best maybe a foot of some strong town reads. If you are using PoE as a reason in a D1 large with multiball then you are either doing associatives which you claim to "hate" or you got caught with your pants down sans reason.

I need more votes.

VOTE: Wayward Thinker

[MathBlade]

@1714 -- I was trying to get into Expedience world and why they would do such a thing. I look at reasons why people post what they do and I reached that conclusion.

Why would I step back? No one has provided a reason there isn't a link. No one has provided a good reason to town read Expedience. Oh pretty please don't pressure the people you think are scum has less weight than damn tissue paper.

not sure what ._. is

[MathBlade]

Math make a case against me or shut up

Its really annoying to see someone dirting shit without following it up

and why is tutus scum I can't read here here

~Ice

I already did and I am out the door to work. Saying something doesn't exist doesn't mean it is not there. The associatives between you and Titus and Expedience are real as fuck.

[MathBlade]

@Math, There are reasons. You're just ignoring them. Kuroi has terribad survivalistic posting and you're not even engaging that. You haven't engaged Cane and Able. Cane and Able seems awfully interested I splitting hairs on kuroi's behalf. There's yellow monkeys and purple flying monsters you're ignoring. You've also ignored A50, and Heartless, and Dram, and Cephrir.

@LQ, I am going with you town solely because the shiftiness of votes placed on you.

I am not ignoring things. I have spent nearly every waking hour of free time on this game.

1) Posted town read on C+A already. If you are going on I haven't engaged every damn player that counts for a lot of people.

2) C+A seems to be splitting hairs everywhere very protown. I am not going to post a post after every post reacting to that post. That would be insanity.

3) I am ignoring claims because that is what they are. I have a town read on Luna and so the less attention we talk about claims and the more we talk about reads the better.

4) Ignored A50 again load of shit look at my ISO.
Heartless posted town read on.
Dram -- Null read.
Cephrir is a town read and not ignoring.

Just stawp. This post is Terribad

[MathBlade]

Why would I step back? No one has provided a reason there isn't a link. No one has provided a good reason to town read Expedience. Oh pretty please don't pressure the people you think are scum has less weight than damn tissue paper.

not sure what ._. is

It just doesn't seem like you're even considering other angles.

For me, Expedience has been a major mixed bag. For every godawful nothing post there's a post with town-sounding genuineness and logic that while maybe not the most sound i can buy as actually coming from a real place.

consider it an expression of surprise & concern

Perception is a bitch. I have reads I pressure them. If they don't do anything useful and just drop votes like 1728 I see no reason to change course. Find scum. Pressure them to validate scum read. If nothing townie comes up keep pressuring.

I have to go to work but Expedience and Wayward Thinking's posts are both terribad.

[MathBlade]

Everyone pls stfu about wincons and factions.

p-edit: ok Titus that's different.

No it isn't RB. She just labeled it differently. In 28 player multiball there is no way I can Do everything Titus asks. I would have to quit my day job and then work on this 7 hours a day and I plan to have fun. Out the door now.

[MathBlade]

On my way home ETA an hour and a half roughly then I will try to catch up on the billions of posts while I was at work. ETA 1.5 hours

[MathBlade]

Titus is grilling Ice and Fire for posting too much but is seemingly unhappy with MathBlades' level of activity?

????????

I am unhappy with Mathblade being totally antitown/scum this game. Sorry I didn't specify it to your liking.

Define that. Because all I see is me posting what I think and you calling me not interacting with 27 others scum.

[MathBlade]

FA your appeal to emotion actually kind of got through to me even though I probably shouldn't let it, so I'll just leave you alone for now.

This post here made me suspicious of you and FA like Expedience invented a reason to get off your wagon. Rather than push him for getting off your wagon for a shitty read you just said something like call it whatever you want. If I felt a player was hypocritical and then did ate to me I would not just "let that shit go."

Post 76 also indicates a potential three way between Titus/Song/FA because Titus says hello town and then Expedience backs it up with a wishy washy response there and it seems like almost no interaction between Titus and Expedience.

Furthermore indicated in post 532 looks like a simple vote color quip but if that is all it was why no Unvote? This makes no sense to me as a quip and instead was potentially a way to bolster Titus/House bullshit.

Between that and the Titus townread drama of FA between Titus and House and Song's recent post with FA I think there is more than enough that hints at potential coalignment.

yeah I don't fucking care about expe, he jumped on me for shit , he gt of me for shit. If I was 6 months younger I was confbiased on him right now. I'm done being that kindda person.

again as I said titus does that on different people in all her games spescially when she is town. when someone says titus I remember moonlogic and town block worlds. I don't have any problem with she townreading me like that- beside the fact she explained it with a meta which was wrong and I talked about it with her. anyway she is correct about me so whatever. where did expe backed it up ? your reffering to his stopping scumreading me?

and i don't get the rest of your posts. I felt the house/Titus argument were about when she called me town (about what cooment) and all I saw was them misunderstanding each other.

anyway I'm not in a scum group so there is that. you need to evaluate this baseless read.

~Ice

I went through your ISO to see where you thought I was ignoring you and this is the closest post I could find.

Here you quote yourself but there is no message to respond to as it all seems to be from 875.

However here I go again to explain.

Expedience has been scummy as fuck. Dropping naked votes and in general preaching a case people want to hear.
Your interactions with expedience have been very softball in nature and you and Titus seem to do things at the same time in the thread with the same collaboration. I would have expected some deviation if it was natural.
Titus on the other hand cannot provide a single post of why Expedience is town with a reason. After pushing multiple times she says "everything". This creates a full circle which generally indicates coalignment.

[MathBlade]

@rb mathblade is a they

its a she

My pronoun is they. Let's have discussions on reads rather than gender please.

[MathBlade]

@Exped + Wayward: why are you buddying each other so hard? How could your townreads of each other be THAT strong?

I'm townreading him kind of strongly I guess. You can't ask "why are you buddying him", because that implies that i'm scum.

This is going to sound bad because I can see you're seeing us as partners or something, because this is honestly similar to what I would say if I was scum with him, but I was actually just trying to look at LicketyQuickety's meta earlier today in search of some certainty because he seemed like the type of player with a strange style. And I came to the conclusion that the majority of the things he did that you might notice from reading his posts were NAI but he was more awkward, less confident, less pushy as scum. And some of the posts like 771 (bottom of the post) and 1434 seem especially town.

I considered making a post about it but I didn't want to because it would seem like I was defending him way too hard, so it is perceptive of you to ask this. I don't even want to post this really.

Bullshit people can ask whatever they want.
Also buddying is not indicative of coalignment in and of itself. Otherwise any town read of scum could be argued as buddying when it is not. It is that buddying in context of the events in the thread that does.

It doesn't sound "bad" as in scummy. I think you picked up your play since the beginning but it does sound flawed.

[MathBlade]

@RB, Are you crowing you have 3-4 scumreads while ignoring major events? Nope. It's not an obligation for every player to interact with everyone else. Selective reading/pushing is Antitown or scummy. This is our first interaction I believe because the percentage quirk thing is a personality tell. Ignoring half the game to tunnel is NOT a personality tell.

I am looking at main events in the thread. I am just not spamming. I do not have to control things all I do is explain them as best as I can. During those events I extract town reads and then post them accordingly. I don't have to inject myself everywhere and nor do I have the time to do so.

[MathBlade]

rb, it's actually much more indicative of Wayward Thinker being the same alignment as me because if he's scum it doesn't make sense to townread his counterwagon unless I am also scum (which I'm not).

what does this even mean?

~Ice

It means in a scenario whether it's currently him or Expedience, WT could have jumped on Exp no problem. The fact WT did not suggests town. Or that they are buddies.

See this is an example of what I am talking about with "softball questions".

The stream of consciousness of that post seems to be that Expedience wrote it from a perspective of scum because Expedience said "Being the same alignment because if he's scum" should be "being the same alignment because if he's town" subconsciously he ends the post with "(which I'm not)" like he knows something is wrong there. Then Titus comes along the back end and posts incorrect logic. I am scum reading both WT and Expedience but they do not have to be on the same team. Nor is any of that indicative this early even if multiball.

[MathBlade]

rb, it's actually much more indicative of Wayward Thinker being the same alignment as me because if he's scum it doesn't make sense to townread his counterwagon unless I am also scum (which I'm not).

what does this even mean?

~Ice

It means in a scenario whether it's currently him or Expedience, WT could have jumped on Exp no problem. The fact WT did not suggests town. Or that they are buddies.

Thats a pure fallacy tbh

a scum can do whatever they want.

~Ice

And the kicker -- Titus never interacts with this post or does anything that looks remotely like a read adjustment to you.

[MathBlade]

rb, it's actually much more indicative of Wayward Thinker being the same alignment as me because if he's scum it doesn't make sense to townread his counterwagon unless I am also scum (which I'm not).

what does this even mean?

~Ice

It means in a scenario whether it's currently him or Expedience, WT could have jumped on Exp no problem. The fact WT did not suggests town. Or that they are buddies.

Are you just explaining his point or actually agreeing with it?

What Titus said is what I meant btw.

Titus actually let Expedience claim Titus was their mouthpiece like whaaaat?

[MathBlade]

I have no objection. 15 votes to lynch and I am townreading Exped.

Then why didn't you have an objection to his naked Unvote?

And for the love of god explain why. And don't say all of their posts. If you think I can't read people show me how to do it. Otherwise stfu.

[MathBlade]

Can we hear from Mathblade, the good twin?

Albert

You got questions for me? Although stop the compliment. An ABR compliment feels weird. I have never gotten one before. I prefer reads over compliments.

Pedit: Dramonic I am catching up and phone posting. It is not spam. Otherwise it would be a wall no one would read.

[MathBlade]

Spoiler: Long WT Post

Maybe I was wrong about Titus idk.

This needs to be lynched. Now. Catching up in progress starting from end working back.

If you struggle with a read share thoughts do something...just "idk" is at best filler and at worst scum trying to look authentic versus be authentic.

And what about them being open about their thought process?

This is a joke right?

Not a joke. And open thought process is a pretty good sign that someone is Town, even if their reasons suck.

I have been scumreading you for your association with Titus and Song as well. I see nothing so far in my catchup that stops that theory and the fact you are switching off of her when they never answered my question about finding a specific post why you are town is telling.

And these reasons to do pre-flip are almost never good, and they aren't good in your case either.

In contrast multiball is one of the reasons you do preflip associatives as it helps with three things especially in a game this large

1) it forces people to think about WHY events occurred. The majority of people focus on the "last" thing as cause when this is not always the case.
2) In a game of multiball seeing someone react about being linked with someone can be a huge tell of either alignment.
3) It forces people to get out of dropping "X is scum" "y is scum" blanket statements and provide reasons. Something this game sorely lacks.

Like for example you scum read me without any reason other than "I don't like how you read people". That is garbage.

If anyone has a scumread on someone else they should do more than "X is scum". Reasons are like

Your vote is garbage. I'm not the only one telling you that pre-flip associations are not something you should be doing. The fact that you vote me for pointing out that pre-flip is bad is terrible reasoning. You're not even following your own pre-flip anymore, which is a huge WTF.

It is called multiball. I have multiple teams. Expedience,Song, and Titus have posted more things and they are people. Therefore they get more posts in response because of how conversations work. I am allowed to have multiple reads and I am calling that out.

The reason I am/was voting you is because you do not have a logical thought process towards how you are arriving at your reads. As demonstrated by the foot in the water paragraph.

I also mentioned I need more votes.

You are my top scum read of team Baker and Expedience is my top scum read of Team A.

VOTE: Expedience

[sarcasm]OMG Math has multiple scum reads and is trying to solve the game. This is bad. This must stop. [/sarcasm]

The was is because I want to see expedience post reads on Titus and Song and why they believe what they do.

And now I am caught up.

I post in phone breaks rather than walls because it encourages participation and people analyzing what I say. Most of the time I have like 3 or 4 posts. I had to catch up on approximately 10 pages. Analyze my content not how I post.

[MathBlade]

TOWN

DrippingGooball
Salt Squad
Expedience
Luna Fox
Toogeloo
Almost50
Wayward Thinker
Titus
Heartless
Klingoncelt
Stormblade
Cane + Able

PROB TOWN

dramonic
BBMolla
KuroiXHF
Nosferatu
davesaz
Tim

UNREADABLE

Mathblade

DODGY

A Song etc.
Cephrir
No Retreat
copper223
rb

VERY DODGY

TheWayItEnds
Lady Lambdadelta

VERY CLEARLY SCUM

RAM
Franky

I lied. One more post I missed.

@DPG what makes me unreadable to you? Do you have a specific question you want to ask me? I feel like something is on the tip of your tongue here.

[MathBlade]

@Math, What is your read on Dram? DGB?

How does it make you feel when they say they skip your posts and say you're unreadable?

My read on Dramonic is town lean. I like how they wanted to protect the thread from spam and generally activity in this big a game was a good indicator. I also really like 1221 because the "still a reason" made a lot of sense.

I have a scum lean on DGB. If I am wrong on the scum associatives on Song then I would put DGB here with you. The reason being is that you say that DGB said they would be skipping my posts. Yet a search of their ISO says no such thing. This makes me think you may have a PT of some kind with DGB. DGB hasn't been posting enough in the reasons department to get more of a read than that.

The unreadable hurts but I am here for questions and if I am asleep I pick them up the next time I can.

[MathBlade]

So here is my question to you what makes you say DGB says they would be skipping my posts?

[MathBlade]

Dram was skipping. Dgb says you're unreadable.

Let's say you'll never ever be convinced on Expedience. Saying it so loud so early says Math will never work with me, why would I work with her? The tunnels are also a good place to hide if you're scum as you naturally avoid anything inconsistent with that opinion. Given the yellow foxes and purple flying monkeys, no one knows the strategic setup.

I am not telling you to lie and pretend you think Expedience is town and I am not scum. What you cannot do is pick a read and center your whole universe on it being right. You have to be open to others. Right now, no one thinks you are open to others at all. It's why I have given no effort to our dialogue.

People are never going to be receptive if you are not. Constant insistence on one lynch in 28 players doesn't work. You need to sort Kuroi and Cane and these other events.

Or I am ignoring you.

I am not centering my world on Expedience scum. Said it before and I will say it again. I have provided evidence of why I believe what I do and they have only become scummier since then. The naked vote/Unvote for example. Until someone proves they are town I don't switch to someone else and have them become the main focus. I pressure others and poke and prod like WT who is probably scum on a different team than Expedience.

It may not be how you play but it is how I play. I am clearly reading and responding to questions asked to me and what I believe. To categorically say "no one" sounds like a wish list rather than reality.

[MathBlade]

And Kuroi can you join us Dram?
You do realize Klingon and Math are on your wagon Dram? Look at the Kuroi wagon?

If not, can you say why?

Correction: I am on in spirit. I don't have two votes

The Kuroi wagon is a piece of shit. Don't like who lead it and who is on it.

[MathBlade]

This isn't a friendly game of tiddlywinks. My vote isn't used as a "reward" for doing what I want. I use it to catch scum and catch scum only.

I don't care about "working with" or "thread health". What I care about is making sure I am understood and that if I am wrong people can correct me with why. I asked you numerous times why Expedience was town and to give me a single post and all I got back were crickets. If someone can explain why Expedience is town I will listen and evaluate that argument but with more than 15 days left there is no reason to go to read number two.

[MathBlade]

Expedience is town.
The reason is that his mindset is that of town.
Now evaluate that argument or whatever it is you wanna do.

Why would town do two naked votes?

What specifically makes you say their mindset is town?

[MathBlade]

WT's posts are full of ass-covering and preservation.
Also kuroi's fine and the people on that wagon are (for the most part) awful.

EDIT:

@Math: What makes me say Expe's mindset is town is that I've read his posts.
Town do plenty of naked votes.

@Nahdia: Please standby...

On WT's posts I agree.
That makes no sense at all. You are not given a list of players by the mod of who is town so you read them.
No they don't. Show me an example of one.

@Albert you had questions for me?

[MathBlade]

Getting dinner and errands. Will see if I get a chance to come back to this tonight.
@dramonic -- Since you said that was for Nahdia I am assuming no Garcia?

Pedit: Most of those are not naked.

1234 is an agreement with a prior post.
1919 is after an ISO of posts mentioning their reads on Kuroi.
1220 again not naked. 1117 is where the support for it.
1462 is actually naked.

Downgrading my Heartless townread to a town lean.

Off to dinner now. May be back tonight maybe not.

[MathBlade]

His point is that Expe is the opposite of calculated. He seems unconcerned with how people are perceiving him. He's just calling things as he sees it, which is a generally towny attitude.

-Nahdia

p-edit aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaannnnd you took it too far, dram. peace and love people ._.

Thank God someone finally explained the point without referencing another game. I am already catching up on what is 10-15 pages a day when I come home from work if your reasoning is "game of awesome" or "game of shit" you have to explain the events of that game. I am not going to reread another entire game when this one is getting to the point where VCA ing may be out of the question due to the sheer number of posts and ISOing is a bitch.

That being said I completely disagree with the reason.
Post 111 suggests they are thinking strategically and thinking about night kills.
784 shows that they are "thinking" about Titus's responses and how they would play.
The fact that Exp has a scumread of Titus is irrelevant in so far that he isn't doing anything about it and sheeping Titus.

Exp has been very strategic in this game and I sure as hell not buying the "too scummy to be scum argument"

[MathBlade]

Don't have much time but I've caught up with the last 10 pages or so.

@LadyLambaDelta / LLD: I think you should read the ISO's of Wayward Thinker, Dramonic, Kuroi, Stormblade and Luna Fox. Or at least skim-read them. A lot of the interactions in this game have centered around them. I did a breakdown of what I thought were my most relevant points of the game so far in post 885.

Other stuff:
I hope Dramonic is town and not scum. I feel like he's town and I also agree with majority of his points and reads. If he's scum that sucks.

I like Mathblade's approach. I don't like their vote on Expedience over Wayward though. It doesn't seem consistent with their reasoning so far, but I might be missing something. @MathBlade: why vote Expedience over Wayward?

I'm still convinced that one of Expedience/Wayward are scum. Their interactions as I've already outlined just reek of scum.

The Kuroi wagon is shit. It occurs to me that multiple people on the Wayward wagon are jumping off it. I want to know why Kuroi is more scummy than Wayward. So far I haven't seen much from anyone to indicate

WHY

they actually think Wayward is town. That coupled with the fact that this Kuroi wagon would be so easy to jump on disturbs me. I feel like Kuroi's a counter-wagon.

It disturbs me also that Titus actually LIKES the Kuroi wagon. Actually, more on Titus:
In 1375 she refers to a Kuroi wagon as a "policy compromise"
But then in 1435 she says she's finally glad to have a good wagon to join? What am I missing here?

She calls Kuroi opportunistic but to me the Kuroi wagon seems the most obviously opportunistic wagon in the game at the moment and Titus is on it. Not adding up for me. @Titus: why do you like the Kuroi wagon?

It isn't so much Expedience over Wayward. They are my top scum read on separate factions. Since I only had the one vote I put it on Expedience to get their opinions about Song and Titus together. Upon not seeing that response my vote stayed. In a one scumteam game it would be that.

[MathBlade]

If you read the collective slot over any of the specific heads posting then you should be able to still analyze the slot. To come back a few posts later and say you can't analyze that slot when you are contradicting yourself is scummy as fuck.

Fine. Lynch me!

Got stronger scum reads at the moment but I definitely have an FoS on you.

[MathBlade]

TOWN

DrippingGooball
Salt Squad
Expedience
Luna Fox
Toogeloo
Almost50
Wayward Thinker
Titus
Heartless
Klingoncelt
Stormblade
Cane + Able

PROB TOWN

dramonic
BBMolla
KuroiXHF
Nosferatu
davesaz
Tim

UNREADABLE

Mathblade

DODGY

A Song etc.
Cephrir
No Retreat
copper223
rb

VERY DODGY

TheWayItEnds
Lady Lambdadelta

VERY CLEARLY SCUM

RAM
Franky

I lied. One more post I missed.

@DPG what makes me unreadable to you? Do you have a specific question you want to ask me? I feel like something is on the tip of your tongue here.

Yoo hoo please respond.

[MathBlade]

@Titus - Would you say I should have Christina Aguilera or Gym Class Heroes as a soundtrack when I ISO you again?

I am also thinking of including Shakira's "Try everything" in that soundtrack too because while you may choose to put me in your ignore list, I think I see two things that make you possible town but don't know how to describe them. I really want to see if your posts rubbed me the wrong way or what because something doesn't make sense with how these interactions are going.

Especially because most people here I have played with like detailed reasons and seeing a lot of short choppy posts are throwing me for a loop.

[MathBlade]

Mainly Kuroi/WF/Expedience

VOTE: Unvote

I think this Kuroi vote feels too "easy" like right before that key point in a movie where the person you think is your friend gives you exactly what but it turns out not to actually be the thing you wanted. And the Expedience wagon is full of people who seem to have stagnated their vote. While I think Expedience is scum with you and so is Song my gut has screamed that it isn't right. Like my brain and gut are at odds with each other so I am rereading today after work.

Gotta go.

[MathBlade]

Will be starting the epic process of trying to read everyone once I get in front of my laptop.

For the love of god a 2500 post day one averages to 86 posts a player and that is being generous in calling the mod a player...Staring at this task I want to cry. Thank god for Mastin's records on the vote counts.

[MathBlade]

I’m trying to follow what was asked and not do lots of little posts but I hope my posts get read. Having 3 people (Titus, DGB, and Dram) threaten to not read my posts is anti-town and ridiculous and fucking hurts.

Spoiler: Heartless (Antihero + TellTaleHeart) -- Town

If Heartless is scum I will almost be tempted to ask mastin to check the role PM again. Their opening looks very critical of everyone and poking and I especially like 564. I don't think Cephrir is scum (more on this later) but if they were scum it'd probably be with Titus and Nosferatu.

1374 feels like classic Anti town game.

Heartless is also way too active for this to be their scum game. Having been scum with the heartless hydra, I'm pretty confident this is not their scum game.

The only thing that if I was going with a pure "logic" read and no gut, they do have the one naked vote from before. I hate to say this, but it looks like Dramonic was right and naked votes outside of RVS seems to be a thing. I loathe naked votes though. With a passion.

Spoiler: KuroiXHF -- Null Gut Town Logic

(note: I am not using it to be insulting. It is its pronoun on the left.)
I've never played with it, but from their opening they feel a lot like I do in RVS. I fucking hate it and it makes no sense. Until there's actual posts I feel like everyone is saying scum because you have 1001 hairs on your head until 1000. I have a hard time determining whether or not it is genuine frustration though. 430 feels genuine but then a couple of troll posts and 468 feels a mix of fake and genuine.

If Kurio is scum look for them to be scum with Copper. That was a very naked vote. I can also see it being very opportunistic in their vote of TWIE or being a very genuine push.

1198 looks like there is no context. Don't see who they are replying to that they supposedly had a bad vote.

1501 I really like. I don't see Kuroi and Titus scum given that Titus is generally not a busser and I don't see him being that confident if he is scum given that this is multiball.

2119 though feels really apologetic as if it is trying to agree and appease Heartless.

What I don't like is I don't see any individual connection here. Like why are people voting Kuroi? And I don't like the timing of it either. From a strategic perspective it looks like town.

Spoiler: “Klingoncelt - Scum”

I think she is a 1v1 with Titus and Expedience here. If Titus and Expedience are town, she is probable scum. Reading back the COM hunting section I don’t like it and I don’t like how she mentions that we are likely in a different timezone. This should be fundamentally irrelevant. Post 710 if Titus is town and trying to get them to shut up is all kinds of bad. But if Titus is scum and spamming up the thread (which she can do quite well as scum) this is town aligned.
A lot of the posts for KlingonCelt depend on how to read other players and I don’t like that. I wish they would post some (or more depending your opinion) original content to help me sort out both slots.

2648 is also all kinds of bad. Other games are not indicative of this one. Site meta is a thing, but it is a thing I fucking hate.

I also don’t like that they are pairing Kuroi and Expedience. That is completely unsupported.

Spoiler: “Titus -- WTF”

Stranger where do I begin? Yes…I am not calling you town. I am not calling you scum. I am calling you WTF. I am also not going through the majority of your posts because that would be insane so you and Luna get paragraphs. Deal.

The beginning of your ISO in 280 makes me want to throw my computer against the keyboard. Yes you are indeed ruling Titus. Hence why I think everyone needs to sort you out fast. You have 244 posts (as of the time of this ISO) over the span of 3 days. 3 days have 72 hours. That is 3.388888 posts an hour or a post every 20 minutes if you did NOTHING else except mafia. Both you and Luna are huge offenders. All this does is create a game where people go “sheep the loud player” and then no other reads get generated from it. Stawp. Breathe…Go walk around and do something, anything else. If I account for 8 hours of sleep a night you go up to 5 posts an hour, one post every 12 minutes. There is a mafia speed posting rule. There is a thing in Dale Carnegie that I really like that I am trying to bring into my mafia games “Do not listen to reply. Listen to understand.”

I love you but please find a way to let other people play so I can read them. As it is this Kuroi wagon looks to be a big sheep fest. I can’t see them flipping scum because of how little a case there is. I happen to agree with Kuroi in that. I waffle on some of their posts but it’s no where near enough to make a case.

Now onto my read of your posts.
Logically that circle of Titus scum with Song and Expedience sends up warning bells as early as 381 when you read the FA (Frozen Angel) slot with nothing more than an emotion bit. There’s also the fact you townread Expedience without being able to justify a single post to do so. And there’s the weird Cephrir fight that is brewing here. I get so sketched out by it. If a four person scum team is possible with you it’d be you, Song, Expedience, and Cephrir, but at the same time, while I hunt by associatives it is possible that one of those is scum doing something that accidentally feeds that narrative.

Hence why I want to give you an olive branch. A do over. I’m going to try to read you as if you haven’t posted a thing and are replacing into your own slot. Especially since I think you believe Kuroi is scum but that doesn’t mean you aren’t scum.

Sometimes I can appear to be things I am not when I struggle to explain things. I think if you slow down rather than “insta post” and do a calm and clear argument. (AKA wall or at least a few paragraphs) then that would go a long way towards me determining the WTF.

Spoiler: “dramonic – Town”

407 I like that post. I noticed something off with the interactions and I’m glad I wasn’t the only one.
639 IMHO is a good vote to start off with. “Moon logic” is NAI. Each person thinks in their own way. Mafia is about judging whether or not the person is town or scum. It’s a matter of whether the person believes they are logical and that their vote/pressure is on scum. I don’t like Cephrir’s 617 because of that. Makes me think of another 1v1 here between WT and Cephrir but I digress.

936 full of townie anger

I like the effort on Expedience but so far it seems other players play makes him potentially town not any of theirs which is a bad sign.

The townie righteous anger is there with this one.

Spoiler: “Salt Squad (SirCakez + beeboy + Heat) – Town”

Pregame the slot looks to be hunting and I overall like Beeboy’s play especially.

I also like 234 where they scum read two major wagons before they take off.

792 also shows a read progression from the start of the game by Beeboy which is something I’m really fond of.

The only real slight I have with the slot is they sometimes post images and I have trouble when it is just an image. Please put text on the image or something to indicate as asking me to read just a picture is asking for trouble because of personal reasons.

Spoiler: Almost50 – Scum

The contradiction in thread and the reads list issues and the fact they put what is an obvious disclaimer in their reads list is horrible.

The one thing I do like is the PGO claim but that is NAI and I want to get rid of threats so it may be a bit self-serving that I like it.

1445 I think this is a scum claim. Only scum should be shot. Advocating for one of the more vocal IMHO townie players to be shot is all kinds of terribad to me.

2276 This is bad. People can scum read you and have a piss poor way of saying it. Saying they can’t scum read you is bad. Saying their logic is horrible and they should reevaluate is good.

As town you never ever want to deny people the ability to do something, it causes people to become apathetic and want to give up.

I don’t see them interacting with players or trying to obtain a scum read. If you are going to catch up great. If not, then do something. Having no pushes and no anything is a huge problem at this point.

I would almost classify this as active lurking except the post count is so damn high in this game that doesn’t qualify. Furthermore giving a whacked out reads list on D1 is damaging as fuck especially to players who have trouble with sarcasm. Just stop being fake and trolly people and start being genuine.

Spoiler: “Nosferatu -- Scum”

Their ISO is a bunch of nothing. Sure there’s posts but they flip flop on Titus/Expedience and I don’t see where they do anything with their summary of catch up. Feels like 1157 is an attempt to look town rather than be town.

If Nos is scum then certainly Kuroi almost certainly isn’t.

Spoiler: “Mathblade -- The towniest town to ever town”

Me mememmeme

Spoiler: “Wayward Thinker (LicketyQuickety + Suzune) – Scum”

29 opportunistic as fuck
492 ignores major ongoings and drops random reads that seem nothing to do with that.
Could be scum with dave. I waffle on dave and RAM had a really good point in 498.
501 looks like an attempt to backpedal after being corrected instead of saying something like “Good point” blah blah. This looks like trying to make a back door towards a Nos lynch. Since I already think Nos is scum I doubt they are on the same team, unless this is designed to be early enough to use as town cred later.
661 by Suzune feels so damn cold. Robotic. I get the feeling Suzune is generally not that way.
771 is all kinds of wrong says Beeboy pointed at WT scum without reasons but the reasons are in the post.
779 potential to be scum with Klingoncelt. Honest and authentic would be to vote and show hydra dissonance. Or have Suzune unvote or demonstrate why Suzune disagrees. This feels like using a hydra as a copout.
921 trying to frame a townie player with what is not a scumslip. Everyone in this game will say they are town. I genuinely believe that the last completed town game they had was two months ago.
928 naked bullshit
1407 as I said before bad. It is literally impossible to have POE in a multiball closed setup. We don’t even know what the numbers of town to scum are.
1434 looks horrible just sheeping again no reasons for what they believe.
I don’t see them fitting in with an Expedience team because the defense of Expedience feels genuine.
Like KlingonCelt with WT that push feels fake.

Spoiler: “Stormblade (Albert B. Rampage + Errantparabola + Nahdia) – Town

ABR is being his cheeky town self. Man it’s been a while since I’ve played a game with them. Wish like hell they’d actually post reads of asking me how I’m doing. I like how he’s destroying bad thought processes too.

Now we get to the meat of this slot. Nadhia actually admitting she’s drunk and being loud is probably a town claim. I don’t see scum getting plastered and posting in the thread. The other heads would probably do something to stop that or I’d see some semblance of control. With this meta I’d almost expect this slot to be in the 200s. I don’t think they’ve left a single player uninteracted (I didn’t count I’m tired…sue me) which is a huge tell to me.

Spoiler: “davesaz – Scum lean

454 looks designed to throw shade on Cain+Able and a lot of the game seems designed to do that.
I like 787 because it promotes a good play environment.
I don’t like how he let go of his push on me. If he genuinely felt it was bad play I’d expected him to keep pushing.

Their posts towards the end of the day (calling out Luna for PoE and in general the 1300s are good) which is why they are a lean.

If WT is scum I’d pressure here hard.

Spoiler: “copper223 – Town Lean”

I like their overall antagonistic playstyle and how they seem to be poking everyone. I don’t like how defensive they are being and their read on TTH is utter shit. It also seems a bit like vote parking while pretending to poke others but the antagonist tone reads town to me.

Spoiler: “Cane + Able (House + Wake88) -- Town (based on House's play....waiting to see if Wake lives up to that)”

House’s fight with Titus pretty much obvtowned the slot to me. Looking forward to seeing if Wake continues that. His meta reminds me so strongly of a previous game but I’m trying to avoid that when explaining if at all possible.

Post 437 is the best example of that.

Spoiler: “Tim (Iecerint + ActionDan) – Town”

The first post out of the gate seems really good. We don’t want cult to get ahead so when people take themselves out of the cult pool this is bad. We’ve had many people claim non-human which drastically improves the chance of the cult taking over town.

Posts in the 1300-1500 range are good especially on Wayward Thinker. It’s a breathe of fresh air to see a game of reasons when most people seem to be attached to wool.

I like the push on Luna and dave too.

Spoiler: “No Retreat (Nero Cain + Yume) – Town

Considering this is a Nero Cain head and I recently played a game with them in gunslingers and seen their scum meta and this is definitely not that, they get a town read. I wish they would post reads of their own but I seen the antagonizing other players and poking them. Just wish I knew where they stood on things.

Spoiler: “A Song of Ice and Fire (Frozen Angel + Firebringer) – Town lean”

Please read my bulletin about speed limits to Titus. It applies to you too.

I like the overall tone of your posts and how you poke different players in general.
However what I don’t like is how those certain interactions came into play.

If there is a team of Titus/Expedience/Cephrir you’re on it. If not you’re probably town. Granted that Expedience is likely town due to other players not their play I’ll put you in the town lean pile for now.

Spoiler: “RAM (Bins + Drixx + Cerberus v666) – Town”

498 – Very townie to push together there
1202 is a big heap of townie.
1858 gives me townie bumps.
Not really seeing the copper scum read. I agree with the logic in 2291 that the Kuroi wagon is likely crap.

Spoiler: “Lady Lambdadelta --- Town

I see the townie frustration here. But UGH we need an environment where LLD can play. She killed it at mafia meet and I want to see her beast mode this shit. Seriously people. We need a place everyone can play in.

Spoiler: “rb – Town”

I originally thought their entrance with percentages was rather bad but then their play has picked up significantly after the early percentage crap.
I especially like 885. In this high post environment it is easy to miss posts. Instead he goes back and makes an effort to engage me.
1372 looks like genuine frustration (although I still hate pictures without words destroying a computer is obvious)
2000s looks like genuinely analyzing the game.

Spoiler: “Cephrir – WTF/Town”

Cephrir gives me a weird vibe. Like I can’t figure out Cephrir at all this game. At one point I thought he was a town read but looking over their ISO I see some things that look like town and somethings I quite frankly do not understand.

236 and when I first started reading felt really really good. Like damn. This is probably a town Cephrir game.
1032 also has lots of <3
The main thing I have trouble with is the interactions with Titus especially towards the end of the ISO gives me a weird vibe. I can’t quite put my finger on it.

Spoiler: “Luna Fox -- Town Aligned”

See my brief to Titus on speed limits. It also mentioned you had a PT. Like you have a higher speed than Titus. Good god….Like I’d almost find it hard to believe you would be scum because then you’d need another PT and we’d reach levels of literally scientifically impossible to be scum.

1029 I feel the townie aggression on

I love how you are poking everyone but I’d like for you to take some time and actually explain who your top town and scum reads are.

That being said I like your overall playstyle except your claim. Claiming there hurts town because it exposes more of us to be potentially culted.

Spoiler: “Expedience – WTF by play, town by other people”

I still think a lot of your posts are shit, especially the naked unvoting because there is no context and I see no actual hunting. That being said a lot of people seem to be vote parking you and the context seems to be that you are town but there is nothing in your play that I can point to that says town. Which makes me wonder how people had a town read during the time of your posting. For now you go in my delay lynching pile but do something townie if you are, please damn it.

Spoiler: “BBMolla -- Town Aligned”

I again don’t like the fact they claimed. It narrows down the cult targets.
339 is good.
I like 1154 but I think Salt Squad is town.

Overall needs to post more but this may just be indicative of thread spam.

Spoiler: “TheWayItEnds – Town Lean”

Didn’t have a read til 2473
2524 Is good too
I like the thinking coming from TWIE
I wish they’d post their reads instead of just conversing with people.

Spoiler: “Skybird / DrippingGoofball – WTF”

I hate when people post reads without conversing. It’s like DGB has the opposite problem of people in this thread. On top of that they said I’m unreadable. I’m pretty sure just dropping names and then walking out is unreadable. Hell it’d be the goddamn definition.

Not sure why they are calling me a chicken for having grey matter. For now this goes into the pure WTF space.

Spoiler: “Toogeloo – Town Lean”

WHAT IS UP WITH ALL THIS CLAIMING? Seriously….We need a pants store up in here. Use your pants guard your race. Guard your role. Nuff said.
The only reason I have them as town lean as I believe their claim. However I need to see more reads analysis or something showing deep thought..

Spoiler: “Franky – Null”

As much fucks given, much fucks given in return. Little fucks given, little fucks given in return. Translation null read.

VOTE: Wayward Thinking

<<< Fixed tag, I believe. >>>

[MathBlade]

I'm tired...forgot a damn spoiler tag...Mastin please fix

[MathBlade]

Thanks. I'm going to get ready for bed now. Questions I will respond to in the morning.

[MathBlade]

Words

@mastin -- Can you please do me a solid and remove me from not voting to voting WT? I know I called them thinking instead of thinker but here is another vote in case that doesn't count.

VOTE: Wayward Thinker

<<< The original vote counts, I just missed it somehow. I won't go fix that VC, too much work, but all future VCs should have your vote marked appropriately. I think, anyway. >>>

[MathBlade]

I appreciate the effort Math.

Titcr

Never heard of this abbreviation. What does it mean?

[MathBlade]

Not to mention they completely ignoring their super scumread.

This was referring to Kuroi, not Math

(dam unusual pronouns)

Can you please restate the sentence with unusual pronouns for me?

In regards to the Kuroi read there are some bad posts and some good posts (see wall post). I just don't see enough to get a scumread from that or enough that justifies the massive sheep going on here.

This conversational style to the game I think is letting scum hide.

[MathBlade]

Now I can see why Wayward isn't doing well at this game - he's not a great player.

No. it's because he's Scum.

I bet he's partners with Expedience, a side-by-side ISO is interesting...

@Expedience when I read this I thought the he meant Kuroi. Turns out it is Wayward thinker.

Not seeing the WT/Expedience connection either Klingon.

[MathBlade]

“Klingoncelt - Scum” I think she is a 1v1 with Titus and Expedience here. If Titus and Expedience are town, she is probable scum. Reading back the COM hunting section I don’t like it and I don’t like how she mentions that we are likely in a different timezone. This should be fundamentally irrelevant. Post 710 if Titus is town and trying to get them to shut up is all kinds of bad. But if Titus is scum and spamming up the thread (which she can do quite well as scum) this is town aligned.
A lot of the posts for KlingonCelt depend on how to read other players and I don’t like that. I wish they would post some (or more depending your opinion) original content to help me sort out both slots.

2648 is also all kinds of bad. Other games are not indicative of this one. Site meta is a thing, but it is a thing I fucking hate.

I also don’t like that they are pairing Kuroi and Expedience. That is completely unsupported.

I have changed my mind on Kuroi and Expedience. I still have Kuroi on my Scum list, but he''s not paired with Expedience, WT, and No Retreat. He's on a different team.

I don't care that you (and others) don't like site meta (or player meta, or VCA.) Meta works for me. It works well. I'll keep using it.

I'm also no longer sure that Titus is Town. She's fishing too much for information. As Town she usually demands that everyone keep their shit a secret until it's time for the popcorn claim.

Not liking you more Klingon. This looks like you are picking a lot of low hanging fruit and bundling it together.
Furthermore if you think Titus is scum then in your world she is either A) bussing Kuroi which is not Titus scum meta. Titus would probably not bus in D1 28 player multiball. Or B) You have a scum team with Titus, no Retreat, WT, and Expedience. Titus wouldn't risk so little interaction with WT and No Retreat as scum. Or C) Titus is on a third scum team. This is unlikely as mod confirmed 5 factions. Luna is probably on one with this "win with humans" stuff same with BBMolla. This means likely at most two scum teams and maybe a cult faction.

So the world you are pitching I don't think can exist and somewhere your reads are wrong. It just becomes a matter of why and I think it is to butter people up.

Now I know my post has a lot of "if then else" in it and we can see which but I completely understand that certain things will change those associatives and make the game clearer.

[MathBlade]

These two things conflict. You say you know that these three people are Scum, which is lawl, cuz I think we are all town, but before that you say "don't expect to be impressed before day 3." So either your reads are shit here and you are telling the truth about having a good game by day 3 or you're reads are right (but they aren't) and you are impressing us right now with your for sure scum reads day 1. So which is it? Should we trust your Scum reads now or are these reads shit now?

You're right.

I usually can't get it together until Day 3.

But once in a while, it's like it was handed to me on a silver platter.

You, Expedience, and No Retreat have interacted as a team. A Scum team.

I am 100% sure of this.

You guys here that? She's 100% sure.

VOTE: Klingoncelt

I want this dead more than anything right now.

Hell I scum read you both right now but this vote is completely scummy. Not interacting with my case with what could have been attributed to heat of the moment last night is sketchy. Not posting about it when coming back and switching your vote sketchy as fuck.

[MathBlade]

I don't really think the 5 factions things in the op flavor really has anything to do with the factions in this game.

Your faction is your wincon. They are not public information.

^^ This is from Mastin's setup posts.

You sure about that?

[MathBlade]

I don't really think the 5 factions things in the op flavor really has anything to do with the factions in this game.

Your faction is your wincon. They are not public information.

^^ This is from Mastin's setup posts.

You sure about that?

yes I know that, not really seeing where you are getting 5 factions from that though.

Yet a fifth faction

there's this but I would think it would just be flavor

.....

*bangs head against wall*

Seriously? Do you think that the moderator would tell us that faction = win con and then have number of wincon a be flavor?

Like what you are saying is fifth faction =flavor, faction = wincon, using the substitution property one gets fifth wincon = flavor. Wincon is never flavor.

No retreat pretty much has to be town for this derp tell. Would be shocked if they were scum.

[MathBlade]

maybe a cult faction.

this is also a confirmed cult game

pls reread like...EVERYTHING

Confirmed cult doesn't mean they are not in their own faction. It is highly probable they are yes. But Mastin only guaranteed a cult. This could mean that multiple teams have recruiting powers especially because of non human race stuff in the first post. This could be the "cult" that mastin was referring to.

Now it is highly probable that they are. But it is not required. I don't see this setup with three scum teams anyway.

[MathBlade]

I have changed my mind on Kuroi and Expedience. I still have Kuroi on my Scum list, but

he''s not paired with Expedience, WT, and No Retreat.

He's on a different team.

Kuroi still looks like the counterwagon to Wayward.

VOTE: Vote: Wayward Thinker[/vote ]

this

And how the fuck can you have Kuroi on your scum list if you're saying this?

You're just making it up as you go along.

VOTE: Klingoncelt

I really wonder what goes on in that head of yours.

I wonder for you too. Please share with the class.

[MathBlade]

Oh I don't disagree with the notion or the possibility. What I want to see is your reads on the game as a whole. Not just shoot off a post or two and disappear.

[MathBlade]

^^ That was at Nosferatu

[MathBlade]

Oh I don't disagree with the notion or the possibility. What I want to see is your reads on the game as a whole. Not just shoot off a post or two and disappear.

I want to stay but it's discouraging when everytime I come back it's another 20 pages. I'm over 60 pages behind right now and I could probably catch up, but it would take a lot of time that I don't really wanna spend. Especially not when I'd had to outpace the rest of you guys, and while I could speedread, my reads wouldn't develop from it and it would make it useless. It's very demotivating tbh.

VOTE: WT

expe wagon is dying for some reason, and this was a close second for me.

Why was that wagon a close second? I can understand being demotivated and I am trying to work with people to fix that but if you have a first read and a second read then explain why.

And if a wagon is dying on a wagon you think is scum you should be explaining why.

[MathBlade]

Math is right about the 5 factions, that is obviously the case and RB gets scum points for trying to cast doubt on it.

@Expe
So you are saying she has good tone as scum?

What I am getting is that rude Kling is more likely to be town Kling, that is likely what she means about Titus lying about her meta.

RB? Do you mean no retreat? If not please explain?

Pedit:

Ram I confused pronouns explained in 2815.

[MathBlade]

Oh I don't disagree with the notion or the possibility. What I want to see is your reads on the game as a whole. Not just shoot off a post or two and disappear.

I want to stay but it's discouraging when everytime I come back it's another 20 pages. I'm over 60 pages behind right now and I could probably catch up, but it would take a lot of time that I don't really wanna spend. Especially not when I'd had to outpace the rest of you guys, and while I could speedread, my reads wouldn't develop from it and it would make it useless. It's very demotivating tbh.

VOTE: WT

expe wagon is dying for some reason, and this was a close second for me.

Why was that wagon a close second? I can understand being demotivated and I am trying to work with people to fix that but if you have a first read and a second read then explain why.

And if a wagon is dying on a wagon you think is scum you should be explaining why.

idk what you mean by a first read? or a second?

You obviously have enough of a read of the game state to have a priority in player lynches

You said so yourself when moving to WT. Therefore I would expect you to post reasons why you think that slot is scum other than just they are your second choice.

First read = top scumread in that context.

[MathBlade]

Define that RAM. Not following the question.

[MathBlade]

You say KC was connecting Expe and Kuroi. She wasn't. Instead of correcting you, she agrees that at one point she was connecting those two, but has since changed her mind.

That inconsistency /contradiction concerns me....like Expe said, it's as though she's not actually holding these reads, and so just went with what you said, even though it wasn't true.

-Cern

Ahhh now I understand the question. KlingonCelt's positions do concern me as I explained earlier I find their reads wholly inconsistent and impossible. See post 2818.

I need more votes

[MathBlade]

Not very deep but leaning scum.

Please answer my question to you in 28417

[MathBlade]

2847*

Dear lord let's not have 28000 posts in D1

[MathBlade]

@Nero,

My opinion, yes. I believe I have said so. It's a meta observation from someone who hates meta routinely. Nor should you have to read gunslingers. I didn't go full ham on Kuroi until he called Mollie psychotic to discredit her, until then I was meh whichever scumread. I don't think Kuroi makes that mistake again though.

Tbh, I feel like I cannot talk about any of my strengths in this game because lol cult.

@Cerb, Read Tim's observations. Klingon mentions Kuroi maybe all of once scumreading him. Zero interaction there. The void emptiness of interactions says something. Kuroi and Kling don't really try to sort each other.

Titus -- gotta go to work. Please leave me questions you have about my wall/thoughts
That post has a lot in it and if we one by one post tonight the post count will be insane.

I know you have moved away from walls recently but please I am begging here do not post by post thoughts about my wall tonight

[MathBlade]

At work long night will catch up later tonight.

[MathBlade]

Phone posting haven't read anything else.

@Titus Then why don't you take Mastina's word for 5 factions?

[MathBlade]

Post #2
Phone posting
Yet a fifth
faction lurks in the shadows...a faction with an entirely foreign motive, one which sparked the war in the first place.

Then why did you propose 7 factions?

[MathBlade]

@Nero,

I believe the factions are as follows

1) Human with 3 subfactions based on regions, north/east/west +hunters??
2) lycans plus wulden (although wulden may just be the cult)
3) undead
4) nosferatu
5) vampires
6) cult
7) yellow foxes (whatever Luna is)

So your best guess is to listen to Mastina when it suits you and not when it doesn't?

[MathBlade]

Fuck this.

VOTE: Titus

[MathBlade]

More like listen to Mastinauntil proven shitty to do so.

Unless you think Toog BBMolla Luna ABR and Copper all decided to massclaim scum.

...Mastina is the FUCKING MOD. If they lie it is a bastard setup.

<<< Uhh...game was advertised as bastard. >>>

It is that you admitted to reading the first post and then ignoring parts of it.

Oh and people stop fucking claiming Jesus. Pants are incredible!

[MathBlade]

I did. It says 5 factions in total. You read. Can't read half and then deceive town and then stop listening to the fucking mod because it is shitty to do so.

I have to go back to work but gaaaah I am seriously pulling my hair out.

[MathBlade]

Oh and for my own sanity

@Mod: How many factions are in this game? Without quoting the first post because people don't read or just don't read?

[MathBlade]

Seriously guys, this is town frustration.

Yeah that is what I saw earlier :/ Anywho on my home from work ETA 1.5 hours

[MathBlade]

Nice to see I am still getting town feels on the Cain and Able slot.

Catching up now.

[MathBlade]

(Meaning Wake now*)

[MathBlade]

@Nero,

My opinion, yes. I believe I have said so. It's a meta observation from someone who hates meta routinely. Nor should you have to read gunslingers. I didn't go full ham on Kuroi until he called Mollie psychotic to discredit her, until then I was meh whichever scumread. I don't think Kuroi makes that mistake again though.

Tbh, I feel like I cannot talk about any of my strengths in this game because lol cult.

@Cerb, Read Tim's observations. Klingon mentions Kuroi maybe all of once scumreading him. Zero interaction there. The void emptiness of interactions says something. Kuroi and Kling don't really try to sort each other.

The psychotic thing is not game-relevant. We've already touched upon that subject and I'm not going to discuss that with you.

Then you can keep going through and ignoring all the people saying you're scum with Klingon to comment on a narrative retelling. Or you could actually discuss reads.

Nope showing you are actively reading and not commenting on the scumhunting seemed like the way to go.

Have anything to say about what you allegedly want to talk about?

How about you provide a reason that doesn't require another game for scum reading Kuroi when you've been pledging your vote to the highest bidder instead of posting cases?

[MathBlade]

I am actually scum, and the other leading wagons are too. Look over here, wouldn't you rather go for a nice tasty lurker lynch?

Look Cephrir can avoid posting reads again instead changes words of Kuroi's thoughts.

So do you have reads? Or are you opportunistic scum with Titus as one of my hypothesis earlier?

[MathBlade]

I have a bad feeling about this sudden surge of votes on Klingon.

Correct me if im wrong but when i read the reasoning seemed to be something about she thinking Kuroi was CW to WT but then thinking Kuroi was scum (or was that in reverse?)

So who are you scum reading right now and why? I see you saying "I town read X" (paraphrase) all day after pushing various lynches.

[MathBlade]

I'm about a 7-9. Same as Kuroi and Wake.

That being said, if you feel better on Kuroi, stay there. I don't have a guilty. We're both voting scum.

While I'd hate a WT lynch, I cannot prove their town without greatly damaging the health of the game state. We have town mostly working together.

How would preventing a mislynch be bad for the game state? I'd rather iron out those grievances rather than mislynch. Do I expect 100% OMG almighty from the sky post the damn role PM in the thread levels of confirmed no. But reasons are good.

[MathBlade]

I have a bad feeling about this sudden surge of votes on Klingon.

Correct me if im wrong but when i read the reasoning seemed to be something about she thinking Kuroi was CW to WT but then thinking Kuroi was scum (or was that in reverse?)

So who are you scum reading right now and why? I see you saying "I town read X" (paraphrase) all day after pushing various lynches.

How about you provide a reason that doesn't require another game for scum reading Kuroi

I shall also point you in the direction of: 2646

Are you just ignoring me now?

On the contrary. That post says you think Kuroi scum. If memory serves you think Kuroi is showing town frustration. So who are you scum reading?

[MathBlade]

I'm about a 7-9. Same as Kuroi and Wake.

That being said, if you feel better on Kuroi, stay there. I don't have a guilty. We're both voting scum.

While I'd hate a WT lynch, I cannot prove their town without greatly damaging the health of the game state. We have town mostly working together.

How would preventing a mislynch be bad for the game state? I'd rather iron out those grievances rather than mislynch. Do I expect 100% OMG almighty from the sky post the damn role PM in the thread levels of confirmed no. But reasons are good.

Because I am no better than everyone else. They can be right and I can be wrong. The game is going on long enough. Decisions have to be made.

Day 1 has 18 days left on it. There is NO REASON we have to lynch now. Granted I hate post bloat but I would take post bloat over putting my vote on a person who I thought was town. Never vote your town reads....ever.

[MathBlade]

Seriously guys, this is town frustration.

My apologies then. The prior post was Kuroi's

[MathBlade]

UNVOTE:
VOTE: WT

sheeping

Why are you sheeping here? Reads are awesome and important.

[MathBlade]

That is a depressingly tiny WT wagon.

I'm frustrated with all the people not making a choice. I don't have a single scumread on either wagon. Removing how I feel about wt, that looks like wt and Kuroi might both be scum.

A few posts ago you said you would hate a WT lynch. What changed your mind between that post? Specifically 3275z

[MathBlade]

I'm about a 7-9. Same as Kuroi and Wake.

That being said, if you feel better on Kuroi, stay there. I don't have a guilty. We're both voting scum.

While I'd hate a WT lynch, I cannot prove their town without greatly damaging the health of the game state. We have town mostly working together.

How would preventing a mislynch be bad for the game state? I'd rather iron out those grievances rather than mislynch. Do I expect 100% OMG almighty from the sky post the damn role PM in the thread levels of confirmed no. But reasons are good.

Because I am no better than everyone else. They can be right and I can be wrong. The game is going on long enough. Decisions have to be made.

Since when is Titus scared of being wrong? Like how is that a good reason to not post why you believe something or don't.

I don't pretend I have all the answers. I just contribute what I think. I have made mistakes reading posts along the way but I at least put my thoughts out there. That is how everyone synergies and we understand people.

God I am pissed Titus is so obviously scum I need a break from this thread.

[MathBlade]

Not liking you more Klingon. This looks like you are picking a lot of low hanging fruit and bundling it together.
Furthermore if you think Titus is scum then in your world she is either A) bussing Kuroi which is not Titus scum meta. Titus would probably not bus in D1 28 player multiball. Or B) You have a scum team with Titus, no Retreat, WT, and Expedience. Titus wouldn't risk so little interaction with WT and No Retreat as scum. Or C) Titus is on a third scum team. This is unlikely as mod confirmed 5 factions. Luna is probably on one with this "win with humans" stuff same with BBMolla. This means likely at most two scum teams and maybe a cult faction.

So the world you are pitching I don't think can exist and somewhere your reads are wrong. It just becomes a matter of why and I think it is to butter people up.

Now I know my post has a lot of "if then else" in it and we can see which but I completely understand that certain things will change those associatives and make the game clearer.

My read on Titus isn't solid.

My read on Expedience, No Retreat, and Wayward Thinker is.

Yeah don't like it. Considering Titus is very likely scum that team probably isn't right. What has me fishy here is you don't mention Kuroi at all.
This post just rubs me the wrong way.

@Thread --

Heading to the Bay for Shadowrun tomorrow and then crashing at a friend's place throughout the weekend. Will be low availability. Please try to obey your local post per day speed limit signs.

http://imgur.com/ms0Qhzj

Also seriously. I think KlingonCelt is scum for a number of reasons, V/LA to me is irrelevant into the read of the person. I will not ever attack them for V/LA. Granted if someone V/LA's I'm glad if they post at all. If they don't post at all for an extended period then maybe replacement but replacement is NAI most of the time (with a few exceptions).

@Wake -- I think Titus and company intentionally posted a ton of other things. Never got Titus's questions either. :/ I'm on her ignore list for suspecting her. I generally hate meta questions but here is some information to decide for yourself.

Titus town game -- http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=83&t=66946
Titus scum game -- http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=52&t=60211

You can decide for yourself. My opinion is yes her play is different.

[MathBlade]

Don't have time to read all this before I go but we have more than 10 days. Vote Titus please while I am away. I hope to come back to a Titus lynch

[MathBlade]

Nearly 300 posts when I come back *sigh*

Not doing this at 1 am. Will find questions to me late tomorrow night.

Haven't read any of this. Hope y'all are voting Titus. She needs rope.

[MathBlade]

Just got home off V/LA

Reading now

[MathBlade]

Don't have time to read all this before I go but we have more than 10 days. Vote Titus please while I am away. I hope to come back to a Titus lynch

How come your read on WT has changed? Do you think Titus is more likely scum than Kuroi?

Read hasn't changed on WT. I still think they are scum. However my scumread of Titus greatly increased when they seem to be trying to make their own narrative instead of trying to be straightforward.

They claim to have read the first post and said they believed something because of Mastina.
Then I point out a contradiction in that and then they throw shade on Mastina.
Mastina is the mod and cannot be illogical.
Therefore it is much more likely Titus created that narrative in order to try to push a world beneficial to her.
The only people that push worlds that push factually incorrect worlds and do not admit mistakes are scum.
In a town Titus world they admit they fucked up in reading or attempt to correct my logic. A scum Titus instead attacks me as a person and says I lack common sense.

I think having logical thoughts and following them to progression is pretty fucking common sense.

[MathBlade]

@ASOIAF

Is very likely town

( Ice is scum hunting like mad and following up on everything she asks plus ending the conversation with a read, she often also drops why she asked that question, i.e. she had an opinion to start out with and checked to see if the player she is interacting with will match her expectation), this is multi-ball so I can't town read her for the rest of the game, here are some questions for you:

- What is your read (if you have one) on Heartless, Nosferatu, Toog. ?

- What didn't you like about Molla in your first post?

- Do you remember why you stopped your conversation with Dram and didn't give a read? Many pages later you seem to have a scum lean, lately you have moved him to null, can you confirm?

From what I've seen about FB this is also more likely to be his town game.

This is sketchy. Why can't copper townread Song all game? If Song is town then they are town and deserve a townread all game. You absolutely should ask everyone questions.

@Copper why did you say you couldn't townread Song all game yet call them very likely town?

[MathBlade]

Titus is very self aware of her meta, don't use meta to read her.

This is shit. Being aware and being able to change it are two different things.

I hate meta to read anyone but if you are a meta reader and are going to exclude meta you do so because you realize it doesn't work on that person.

FOS Titus +Copper.

[MathBlade]

Wayward Thinker - 7 (dramonic, Tim, rb, davesaz, Nosferatu, BBMolla, Klingon)
KuroiXHF - 10 (DrippingGoofball, Luna Fox, Titus, A Song of Ice and Fire, Cephrir, Expedience, ram, ss hydra, heartless, toog)

Order not precise as I know Ceph is in the wrong place but fuck it headcount good.

Speech:

The posting in this thread is excluding many people. The catchup method where you quote posts as you catch up makes the problem worse. Combine that with people asking for quotes of things resolvable by search because lazy only makes the problem worse.

Furthermore, everyone seems to be talking

at

each other, rather than

to

each other.

Pedit: Jesus trying to post here and about 10 pedits now.

As yourself a few questions. What am I hoping to solve or respond to? If the answer is nothing, you don't need to post. We don't need snarking, gloating, or long protracted walls on people not likely to be lynched.

How does my post promote town health? If the answer is not at all, look if you really need to post it.

If you are not townreading one of Kuroi/WT, it's time to vote them. If you're townreading an entire wagon, consider moving. Is it worth bickering with townreads for 30 pages that people are rapidly tuning out?

Sure. There's a chance we're wrong. With cult and another recruiting faction(s), there's likely very little scum at the moment. Look to agree, not be hero town.

Ask how I can help others, not how they can help me.

This is all kinds of terrible.
People are literally posting things with one word and one emoticon or a single sentence.
They are not explaining WHY things are back or think they have to respond to everything right away.
It is the high post count people are complaining about. The catchup posts are a symptom

not

the cause.
The second sentence I disagree with. People (when not being spammy players) can slow down and get valuable reads. There have been a lot of good questions when people aren't burying them (e.g Wake's 3300 getting buried.)

Another example is the read wall. Only a few people read it and no one interacted with reads. Assuming you think I am town and incorrect about something (thanks for the corrections for the few who did read) then it helped to demonstrate a likely scum in KlingonCelt. However soon after lots of posts came in.

Third, Titus and the other speed posters need not just to answer does it promote town health but does it promote town health if I post it immediately. This is not a marathon game.

Fourth, no. Forced agreement when times are bleak just lets scum sheep on. The thing this thread needs is life. Passion. A real for people to care. Not apathetic lynches lead by a likely scum leader.

Fifth -- The question isn't about who you can help at all. It is about lynching scum and not lynching town.

[MathBlade]

ITT Titus wants me to die.
You guys are wagon jumping like we're 30 minutes to deadline.

This so this. Titus is pushing a fictions deadline

now

so we lynch Kuroi.

People are mature adults they will post what they can. We need to be more inviting to them to play rather than just adopt a hammer that excludes the people who aren't playing it defeats scum reads and monopolizes the conversations.

[MathBlade]

Dear Lord 10 pages after the flip. Did I not post a speed limit sign? Is no one listening to that.... seriously? I have work in the morning. Not trying to speed read 10 pages in an hour. I'll try to wake up early in the morning and make sense of all this and why the hell everyone's posting like they are on fire.

[MathBlade]

Gaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaah!!!!

I am halfway caught up and I just.....

Pants people!!! They are very important. Mastin specifically said this game could not be broken through mass/flavor claim so why the hell would anyone specifically claim right now? Between yesterday and today and how many claims there have been already I seriously am banging my head against the wall.

I have a townread on both LLD and Stormblade and their reactions to the shitstorm haven't changed that. Since this game is inherently bastard maybe there could be an individual Wulden? Based on my flavor (not claiming), I could really see that happening. I do believe "Individual" <X> is without a PT.

The only thing we have gained is more people streaking around the thread and voluntarily claiming.

Let's get to scum hunting.

What we need to figure out is what is a "threat". IMHO Kuroi was town but probably a different town than me. But the truth of it is I don't know right now and I think that we need to push people who are either silent through this OR people pushing specific stances for "information". This game is a clusterfuck. Let's not make it easier on scum by waving information about ourselves like candy.

When I get caught up the rest of the way tonight I will start asking specific questions I just want to make one message very goddamn clear:

Keep it in your pants!!!!

[MathBlade]

Gaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaah!!!!

I am halfway caught up and I just.....

Pants people!!! They are very important. Mastin specifically said this game could not be broken through mass/flavor claim so why the hell would anyone specifically claim right now? Between yesterday and today and how many claims there have been already I seriously am banging my head against the wall.

I have a townread on both LLD and Stormblade and their reactions to the shitstorm haven't changed that. Since this game is inherently bastard maybe there could be an individual Wulden? Based on my flavor (not claiming), I could really see that happening. I do believe "Individual" <X> is without a PT.

The only thing we have gained is more people streaking around the thread and voluntarily claiming.

Let's get to scum hunting.

What we need to figure out is what is a "threat". IMHO Kuroi was town but probably a different town than me. But the truth of it is I don't know right now and I think that we need to push people who are either silent through this OR people pushing specific stances for "information". This game is a clusterfuck. Let's not make it easier on scum by waving information about ourselves like candy.

When I get caught up the rest of the way tonight I will start asking specific questions I just want to make one message very goddamn clear:

Keep it in your pants!!!!

Oh wowow I thought I was going insane until I read this post. Math you better not be scum.

Does this mean you'll lynch Wayward/RAM with me?

Gotta get caught up, but on Wayward I thought they were scum yesterday and I need to see where everyone stands compared to what I thought pre Kuroi flip and if their reactions make sense. It takes time to do that properly and I have to be out the door in 15 minutes.

[MathBlade]

It is not guaranteed to be the same as the standard werewolf (goon substitute) as this game has custom factions and is bastare btw, but the chance of it being somehow town aligned are ridiculously small.

The wulden being cult is based on Toog. 's flavor, they could also just be the scum faction as would seem more logical going by traditional flavors used in mafia.

@Math
Good that you are here, I read some of the BS you asked/accused me of yesterday and that sounds like the stuff scum comes up with.

Then explain how you think it is BS. If you incorrectly think I am scum then you should be pushing, poking, and prodding me til you find out I am not. Not just saying "Math posted BS".

[MathBlade]

why was kuroi town math?

Mainly the individual thing. I would think anyone with an individual PM is literally an individual. It just may mean that one individual team may have different threats than another and one town may think another town has to go.

I think the main problem is everyone is trying to think there is one town and one scum in a game of multiball. The at least from Mastin says there is probably more than one town and more than one scum faction.

[MathBlade]

I know there are several town

I know there are several scums

all I know is that kuroi was a race detector individual vampire with a recruit function and SS is very likely with them

there is a reducted factional part there

why being individual make a faction safe for the humanity and a no treat for us?

Town by definition is an uninformed majority. If you are by yourself this makes you town.

I also said in my prior answer that one town may think another town has to go. A threat or not I don't know. But more likely that not Kuroi was town. Also why are you assuming Kuroi had a recruit function? I see a redacted? Which is just that to me. Redacted.

I want to catch up and see what the hell is going on. Gotta go now!

[MathBlade]

Catching up now.

[MathBlade]

Okay yeah...Remember how I said to keep it in your goddamn pants??!!?!?!?!?!

That doesn't mean add EVEN MORE CLAIMS to the shitstorm. As far as I'm concerned checks can be manipulated. North Empire could just check as Other, humans as wuldens, and maybe Great Lakes checks as Erimos through some sort of bullshit. Each check you do of someone should be in addition to, not in lieu of, how you read people. Furthermore instead of asking someone if their telling the truth, you need to get to the heart of the WHY someone does something. No one is going to say "HEY LOOK I AM A BIG FUCKING LIAR." If you can figure out the WHY someone does something you'll likely find the scum behind it. This is a game of mafia, social deduction, not whose goddamn claim is bigger.

My town and scum thoughts

Spoiler: Long version

All of the night flips on the first page are likely town. Mastin said loosely speaking, that the scum faction has a 50% win condition. None of those PMs I see have that percentage. Based on Titus's flip there seem to be different "champions" of each group. Consider the following:

If they could be turned against their will into undead, into lycans, into vampires, into some sick hybrid of two, what could they possibly do to survive? None of them had the experience necessary. The only action available: as with their ancestors, put their differences aside and bond together, in a desperate alliance against the supernatural creatures of the unknown.

This alliance was to be focused in the strongest remaining of the three factions, the eastern kingdom, but this triggered one final change: overnight, after the signing of the Humanity Treaty, an uprising of slaves rose up. This, because those slaves were secretly undead, hidden survivors of the experiments long-since discontinued, fearing for their lives thanks to their new bad publicity.

The land now divided between humans, wulden, nosferatu, and undead, a four-way factional war is brewing...

...Yet a fifth faction lurks in the shadows...a faction with an entirely foreign motive, one which sparked the war in the first place.



This likely means that race is NOT the likely factor in this treaty. It strongly implies people are shedding their old ways and coming together to try to form a NEW TREATY. Like Dramonic's role PM. As much as I hated that hammer while I was catching up, their flip of a new treaty strongly implies town.

Yet at the same time, Titus's role PM had a night kill yet had a threats to "blah" faction. It DID NOT SAY "THREAT TO HUMANITY IN THE WINCON" but did say "HUMANITY's CHAMPION". In the lore it specifically stated that the northern tribes dabbled in beast stuff, and the southern tribes dealth with the supernatural. Look at Kuroi's role PM. They said "northern faction" and in the first post it said a vampire was a type of beast. This likely means a beast champion from the North is probably a part of that group. I'd also expect something "supernatural" to be a champion of the southern group.

This means I think there are TWO mafia games going on. There's the one that if you have a specific WEST EMPIRE faction that you'd need to eliminate the specific threats to that to have a treaty. Similarly if you are Northern Empire/Southern Empire faction, you'd probably need to eliminate other people for the treaty to take place. Then there are the individual humans which at first may just seem like survive until one of the three groups treaties are met, but you may indeed be someone else's problem. If your card says North, then the West has a reason to try to stop you. This means Titus at a low level was scum, but at a high level was town since they'd need to get the 50% people out.

Now, let's take a look at the Undead flip from Dram. This probably means that one of these three groups must be the only ones remaining. This would make him at a broad sense town because they care about the treaty being signed in general. However, they may NOT care about which one or that any cards with a "human" race exist except for maybe one. This on a broad level would make him town but on a narrow level scum since they probably wouldn't care which humans existed as long as only groups from one nation did. This goes right in line with the paranoia of the first post.

Now the 50% people those are probably outright scum since they don't care about a treaty at all. However, there is nothing saying that anyone of ANY race could choose not to care about the treaty. I'm willing to bet the big bad in the role PM is one of those threats but does that make all Wulden with the big bad? If you think that then that is a scum faction not a cult. If you think that there is a mix, then there can be a Wulden town. This also means scum can be any race...including human. The fact is majority of people are going off of INFORMATION when they should be going off scum hunting.

Then there is also the cult. Of which we know nothing about. Or of what their faction role is. This is probably another problem to the treaty.

I think the main problem here is everyone is assuming we are playing one game of mafia instead of two games of mafia.Quite honestly I don't have an idea how location fits into all this yet, but I'm willing to bet that either it helps this supposition OR it helps to aid detective of the former. Mass claim of a given topic about you may end up with your specific group losing one of the two scum games likely going on. Unfortunately a lot of people are goddamn streaking right now.

What I think the race checker if you are not a human serves as is the ability to know if you could convert someone to your race and faction combination. IMHO it doesn't help to establish whether they want the treaty to succeed or not before they join you. I'm guessing that if you are a town non human that it'd make you want just the humans to quit warring so you could just exist and if scum non human ...well....that doesn't need explanation. This is further evidenced by the "Individual" flip from Kuroi. This implies at least two kinds of vampires if not more.

Therefore I think if you keep assuming a "broad" town and a "broad" scum I think we are all screwed. Yes I would love to find "broad" scum. But I'm guessing that with this setup there aren't going to be that many, especially that it may be that there are three human groups likely wanting to rip each other apart. In a "non bastard" game of mafia there would be around 20-25% scum. Following that logic, we'd either have a group of 7 or a group of 4 and a group of 3.

With everyone's theories as to what is going on, mass claim breaks every single one of them and doesn't take into account a treaty from Dram's flip or that two humans who everyone called town had two different wincons. It's with this hypothesis I'm going to reread all of the claims again and see who I think is scum, if any in that list.

[MathBlade]

Question why is LLD scum outside my Wulden race cop result on her?
I am waiting on a VC before I continue playing to be perfectly honest.

I'm still working on a breakdown post but I had a town read on her before the flip and how everyone thought race=faction, which I respectfully disagree with (see prior wall post), I'd think that LLD is likely town. It would be you I'd be more concerned with because "Instigator" doesn't seem to make much sense, read the prior post for me to see why I think the way I do.

[MathBlade]

Also why are you assuming Kuroi had a recruit function?

Salt already claimed same faction, same win con and a recruit shot that he claimed each member of the faction had independently from the other members.

factions with "individual" prefix have a wincon of eliminating threats to the human treaty,

Where did you even get this? Like, Individual Humans win when they eliminate threats to their own faction (BBMolla), and Individual Vampires win when they eliminate threats to their own faction (Kuroi). Please double check facts before you post.

Read 4830 Almost50. Not responding to what is there here while I'm trying to do another post explaining my thoughts so I don't make the post count any more insane than it already is.

[MathBlade]

Spoiler: LONG ASS WALL

I can tell you one thing, Stormblade is not with us:
VOTE: Storm Blade

~Firebringer

--------------------------
Here we go first claim of sorts -- Expedience. No information as to why or who the "us" is. My FoS of Expedience grows and of Salt Squad. Then without any reaction they immediately vote RAM saying they are unambiguously scum though. I can't tell if Expedience is absolutely crazy or just trying to say something here. Either way I had an FoS of them before Kuroi lynch and this entrance didn't help things.
-----------------------------
Then there's some more bitching and moaning about "oh no! what do I do?" This pops up throughout the day so far. My thoughts are at least some of this fake some of this is genuine. Overall to a speciifc player it is NAI though.
--------------------------

So one of the members of my neighborhood.
Has found out that Salt Squad is part of some Isolationist faction?

What the heck is even that.

This I do not like. It doesn't seem to make sense with anything. This means one of several things to me:
1) The isolationist is a cultist or something that just wants to survive and put itself in a hovel. It doesn't sound "war" or "conversion like". Just something that wants to exist. Since all of the factions seem to be sentences and you got a phrase it is probably a summary of one of those phrases. It could be something that means Salt is town.
2) The isolationist result could be fake and that would mean that whoever made it is one of the 50% scum.
3) Luna could be lying about this and that would make them want to lynch Salt for some reason.
4) If the person isn't strong willed then I'd say they could have hit someone else.


The fact Luna has either came close to our outed nearly everyone in their hood for reasons I cannot understand at all boggles my mind. There are way too many possibilities of what that claim

could[/b] be and the fact that Luna outed it and then immediately pressuring Beeboy without talking about it is sketchy when it doesn't seem to match up. However, I had a town read on Luna and Beeboy so I'm actually leaning towards Isolationist being a word or phrase that describes Individual Vampire OR there was funny redirection going on. Since I can't really tell what the fuck is going on here, both of you get an FoS.

Luna for habitually pants dropping and Salt for begging and pleading instead of actually trying to figure out the game and then for adding the strong willed claim after. Salt however does have some of a chance of telling the truth when in 3967 without a single vote on them then says they are feeling vampiric.

Therefore on this claim I am punting for now on determining which of the two, if any, are scum without further interaction but something there stinks and I intend on finding out what.

------------------------------------------------------

Almost50 then posts something on the Titus kill. Quite frankly Titus suspected a lot of people and was "cooperative" which was usually her thing as scum. Bullheaded as town, Cooperative as scum. For her to kill to go through she'd have to be sure of the person being not-human and be sure of not redirection. There's a whole lot of assumptions made in that post but none of them are reads and there are plenty of other possibilities. Based on the fact that Mastin has established scum have fake claims this looks really bad. FoS grows Almost50.

------------------------------------------------------


Tim does mechanics stuff which seems to be par for the course instead of reading but seems as close as to what was investigative so far so NAI for that.

--------------------------------------------------------

Stormblade hopping on the LLD wagon without seemingly interacting with the Salt Squad claim makes almost no sense. It seems VERY opportunistic to say the least. It's one of the reasons that I think something funny is going on. But see the thing is I had a town read on them beforehand. It could be possible that Stormblade like the majority of everyone else seems to confuse race and wincon but it contributes to my punting on the Salt Squad bit for now. They said it doesn't 100% indicate it, yet they vote it as if it DOES and don't ask any investigative questions before doing so. They eventually unvote at entertaining the possibility, but if they knew it wasn't 100% indicative why weren't they asking questions first? Depending upon what Salt Squad flips I would look here. Especially since they believe LLD on the claim of <redacted> (so scum actually have to read the thread) and didn't insta vote them, they'd either need to be <redacted> or a potential <redacted> or they'd probably be scum.

Luna's hop onto LLD immediately with one of the weakest apologies ever is usually a scum tell as well. Isolationist doesn't make sense at all to me.

The only thing that stops me from wanting to run Luna up the damn flagpole right now is that I don't think she'd out a large (relative term) group of people that she is in a PT with as scum unless they themselves are scum. Buh bye Luna town read, which because they admittedly share the same PT, buh bye Stormblade town read. I also find it interesting that Luna pushes the Wulden are scum thing and a Wulden spy. It seems like Luna is just claiming tons of shit to avoid actually reading people. The hydra dissonance doesn't help matters much either. I want to figure out what was up with today though because almost everyone in that damn hood seems opportunistic as fuck, either that or every player in the hood is drunk or inebriated on a consistent basis somehow.

-----------------------------

4018 is tellling from Beeboy. Switches between racecop and race cop. Not sure why. If this was a slower game I'd call it AI. However I can see autocorrect or something fucking with that. So contributes to the punt section.

----------------------------

Expedience continues vote hopping sans reason to whatever is popular or whatever is around. Then immediately asks LLD to full claim with like hardly any votes. A full claim is for L-1. FoS Expedience is growing larger still.

------------


Lots more pages doing nothing reading people and just calling each other scum over and over


-----------


Almost50 gets more FoS's on them because they specifically want to know who is in the PT. Maybe he wants to know who the <REDACTED> are in that hood? I'm not sure what good asking does when you can read the fucking thread (RTFT) except to keep the conversation going about specs and not hunt and find more <REDACTED>, assuming all people in that PT have a similar <REDACTED> and I'm not misunderstanding them.

---------


Wayward thinking's logic is terrible --- Lynching for information is always bad. Furthermore if this game was "find the wulden" and assuming that scum usually take up 20-25% of the population in a standard game and that X% of people are humans then giving 100-20-X% of the players race checks and go "this is scum" is bullshit. A wulden claim DOES make me put the slot under the microscope however.

---------


Toog writes a few sentences to explain "I'm sheeping" instead of investigating. We haven't gotten that far into the game yet. /sigh

---------


Dripping Goofball also sheeps....What the fuck is this game?


--------

Copper gets a huge FoS too. They posted that stuff of mine sounds like bullshit scum would post but has had ample time and interacted with other people and refuses to do so.

If it wasn't completely bat shit stupid I'd really think that this group is all scum except for the fact that if they were scum claiming a PT is stupid AND I don't see all three people being this stupid. But there is probably at least one scum somewhere in that PT. As to whether or not it relates to the Salt Squad stuff, I want to see more interactions to find out.


-----------

RAM is okay ish. I like the fact they seem to imply thinking which is more than what most people do but I don't like that they think they need more flips to do it. There's been 11 billion (sarcastic extension) claims already. What exactly more do you need to start asking questions?

---------

Cephrir comes in and posts common sense...And then Nosferatu (the player) claims that Cephrir is Nosferatu (the race). Again this is more unprovoked claiming. This means that Nosferatu is not human and I'm assuming not Wulden or Nosferatu themselves else that post doesn't make sense. Yet since it is highly unlikely that they be human and race check that means they didn't list their own race there. A couple of people have claimed not human AND win with human. This seems self serving and completely ignores the rest of the thread.

------------


Then people just go off the deepend going back to an old vote because "information" instead of actually goddamn reading and investigating.


---------

The rb votes are just stupid. RB is like one of the few people investigating and scum hunting. Almost chain sawing. Again if Luna, Storm, and Copper were all scum together this would make sense but I can''t for the life of me see a scum team openly advocate they have a PT in the game thread.

---------

I hate Salt Squad's posts with a passion about wanting to lynch the 2 shot BP in order to "townfirm" themselves. From my view of the game that doesn't happen. And again asking about more people about who is in the damn hood...C'mon

*bangs head against wall*

The short version is I have a lot of thoughts about that PT/LLD/Salt Squad/Cephrir but that is NOT where I think the vote should go.

I think it should go on one of these people.
Expedience who just looks like they are vote hopping without even interacting. (Granted most people are just trying to use information and not scum hunting but at least they are interacting)
Wayward Thinker who advocated for an information lynch.
Klingoncelt who spends most of the time interacting with Wake instead of interacting with the thoughts so far and asks for a vote of someone who Wake (I think) has confirmed Northern faction without reasons.
Almost 50 for reasons mentioned in the wall above. Lots of weird things that don't add up.

Since the latter is what the some people are loudly saying race = faction = lynch LLD except his is more trying to prove something that mastin didn't say, I want to see more of what Wayward does now and instead want to see Expedience post something other than "vote" sheep. Random vote change. Sheep. vote change.

VOTE: Expedience

[MathBlade]

No I am serious Luna claimed cop in her neighborhood to scum.
That means that scum knew who she wanted to confirm so they could redirect her to someone who has the same information as the person she was checking.

Why are you telling people that there's Scum in Luna's 'Hood? Was that confirmed?

Luna's only been screaming "there's a wulden in my PT" every 3 seconds.

[MathBlade]

[url=http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 2#p8146362]Lots of mathy words and RB's reply is below

<3

But put your vote on Wayward instead.

I need to look into Klingon now, but I'm impressed that your bigass wall has the same suspicions as mine. You'd better not be scum Math.

Or you know...You could actually READ IT before saying you are impressed with it. I have lots of WTF moments about this day but honestly like most of it is either confusing race and faction or just complete bullshitery because bastard game. Either way I want to see people interact more and less "OMG THIS SAYS YOU MUST BE SCUM" when they are complaining about not understanding the goddamn setup.

PEDIT: Nadha -- Or you could think for yourself instead of just "guessing" where your vote is because your other head says so. And ask people. I'm not asking for explanations. I'm asking for people to play the goddamn game. Like what do you think of the people in your hood? What about those outside of it? Give me a general feel for how you think. And why do you think there is a Wulden scum team? They could be a cult or as I hypothesized before maybe there are scum teams that are not based on race.

[MathBlade]

I think we should all ignore scum Klingon because I am likely being tracked ^_^
If I was scum and needed 1 night action I would just do what Ram said and say isolationist faction was a town faction.

....Why would we ignore scum Klingon? Why wouldn't we I dunno...LYNCH IT.

God I'm tired...I'm going to bed. SLOW DOWN YOUR FUCKING POST COUNTS AND THINK PEOPLE GOD DAMN IT!!

PEDIT:

@rb: Wow you read a wall containing at least 20 pages worth of posts in 3 minutes...Excuse me...I think my allergies to bullshit are coming up.

@nadhia: Too pissed will address in the morning. Main thought is push people. Ask questions...Something other than information. The same thing I have to everyone else.

Oh and post limits are good. Seriously I have done nothing but catch up and post since I got home from work and now I am going to bed to get up in 6 hours. Like please people. You are not in a contest for highest post count. I understand there are factions but I am assuming Mastin has common sense and not approving "you win if you have the most post ever" for the lolz.

[MathBlade]

And I am greeted to 8 more pages today because people can't slow the fuck down and think.

Like it feels like I am one of the few people playing Mafia :/

Needless to say don't have enough time to catch up on this before work so I will read up afterward.

[MathBlade]

Good god more claims...on my way home from work.

Someone give that PT pants.

ETA 1.5 hours

[MathBlade]

PEDIT: Nadha -- Or you could think for yourself instead of just "guessing" where your vote is because your other head says so. And ask people. I'm not asking for explanations. I'm asking for people to play the goddamn game. Like what do you think of the people in your hood? What about those outside of it? Give me a general feel for how you think. And why do you think there is a Wulden scum team? They could be a cult or as I hypothesized before maybe there are scum teams that are not based on race.

Look, both Nahdia and I, and others in the PT, we're all pretty sure that copper is acting hella suspicious in our PT. If there's someone with a different wincon than us, it's definitely copper. I'm not sure if he can with with us or not, though. Maybe we don't have to die for him to win, or it's something we haven't thought of. Regarding LLD, I'm fairly certain no Wulden is part of the New Humanity Treaty, she's a Wulden, come on. Everything she says sounds highly suspicious. Nahdia will make a determination and I will support her. I mean, we both still think Salt Squad is shifty as fuck. There's that too.

ABR

Here is the problem. The entire day has been about "information" (reason for quotes later) instead of analysis. It is that "information" that people are sheeping. Yet the entire PT says that they don't trust the people in the PT. by consequence it means I do not trust the "Information" that has been shared in this thread.

Now the entire thread has been taken up with discussions of information over trying to read people. In regards to Luna especially for all the worry you have about there being a Wulden in your PT so you look to the main thread for help and out powers and some such. But you are not interacting with each other very much in the thread so we can help you find it and get reads off of it.

Instead after several pleas of "Hey don't claim" the group outs that they are undead and that there is a watcher with certain results. At best this is clogging up discussion of who to believe and who not to and is stopping actual read progression, and at worst all of y'all are scum and just spewing shit to see who reacts to what to know who has to go. Either way I see none of you trying to figure out what the win con means or suggesting ideas.

Speaking of which FoS Wake for wanting people to say a certain three letter word for a potential cult leader. That seems very odd. Also for not wanting to read it he is borrowing some of those ideas. 4828

Like I don't see much "helping a human treaty". The entire hood is toxic and I think in order to allow scumhunting we lynch within it. IMHO there is no way a "faction cop" a 2 shot BP a watcher and if dram was in there whatever they were since it is gone are all town. I don't see that.

Furthermore the undead had a person who could check Race in their flip. Wouldn't a faction cop that also included race be more op than the original race check? Then it would be a wincon and a race cop in one. Instead no one is thinking, slowing down and analyzing and trying to balance reads with that information. Quite frankly I am sick of it.

@Wake -- In my humble very strong opinion there are some people with North East West and Other that are all a part of the treaty but which parts. I would not go down the path you are thinking. You are still IMHO trying to use a certain element to break the game. If nation or location could break the game and every player picked that as pregame stuff then that would be ridiculous. Stop fishing and read my posts. I swear if you look hard enough you may find nachos. You get a huge FoS for wanting even more people to claim while I am trying to give away pants.

[MathBlade]

I am starting to think I actually am the best lynch since the LLD wagon is crap and LLD can confirm herself the same way I can confirm myself tonight.
I am going to be on a computer in 1.5 hours where I can explain my reads and point to you guys who to lynch because you guys aren't lynching outside Luna's neighbourhood until the scum in there gets lynched because my town flip basically confirms scum in that hood and don't listen to anything that says otherwise.

Just no. Neither of you are good lynches IMHO it is all spoiled from the tree. The PT put a shit done of pressure on you and then you outed which caused LLD to out.

I don't see either of you being scum and this is either a clusterfuck of town derp that needs to stop or it is a clusterfuck of scum trying to get out as much information as we can but we need to scumhunt.

[MathBlade]

Wouldn't a faction cop that also included race be more op than the original race check?

I can't check race tho.

If you expected the result to be "Individual Vampire Faction" or whatever the exact wording was then this would be highly suggestive of the player's race this rendering a check mute. Hence it would be more op than the original race check. No. Instead they are probably generics that give an idea of a win condition.

[MathBlade]

however in that case shouldn't i be getting "Individual Faction" not "Isolationist"?

Maybe it is part of a broad collective that means alone. Without known teammate. The fact is you claimed a guilty on a slot without knowing the mechanics behind it and now everyone is starting to go towards that lynch. Your entire hood has been spilling its guts and because of that no one has scum hunted or tried to figure out this treaty.

The other part is you could be right. They might be cult. It could be something weird other than those. However then there is the also lingering doubt if a spy in the PT. If I take your assumption at face value then

ALL

information from the hood is suspect.

And that is why if you think Salt Squad is scum or cult or something weird I would welcome a scum case and I will listen. But the more you spout information the less I care and the more I want to lynch in the hood.

[MathBlade]

VOTE: Unvote

While I try to figure out which of the goddamn heads is most likely scum so we can have a goddamn Mafia game.

[MathBlade]

Now if someone has an actual case other than "Wulden" on LLD or "Isolationist" on Salt Squad bring it.

Let's discuss reads. But if you don't post a case or your case is "sheep" your vote is shit.

There is no "looming deadline" there is no reason to dogpile like this. We should be trying to figure out this treaty. Slowing down. Analyzing and thinking.

[MathBlade]

Really?? How does knowing the race of the majority of not all of the people in the hood help?

Working with a group is fine. But in a non bastard game with a watcher role you don't start D2 off with "I am a watcher!! Here are my results." IMHO the same is more true here. If it dies then the info dies. I value analysis over information.

And what people are doing is not helpful. If you want to put yourself

AND

scumhunt it wouldn't be bad. But the fact of the matter is all the information is tainted from the hood so I have to build reads to see what I believe and what I don't and when that hood decides to be fucking brain dead and just stick their arms out and moan "INFOooooooooo" I can't get reads.

This game is not "claim and break". Mastin said it wasn't. What makes each piece of information worth your life? If sharing it isn't worth your death keep it under wraps.

[MathBlade]

*Sigh*

*Lays back in a hammock, grabs a beer, and quietly holds a message about the existence of an SK-sounding entity*

I'll have to wade through 30 pages to find out, won't I?

Not unless you use the power of the 3-letter word.

Here Wake. Anyone can find certain special characters. It makes me wonder what the power of that three letter word is. And why the hell you would want anyone to say it.

[MathBlade]

Rhymes with corn on the cob. You SOB.

[MathBlade]

The letters b o and m were italicized. Backwards that rhymes with Corn on the Cob. Gasp! Math can read.

[MathBlade]

Now let's play Mafia instead of hangman. K? Let's find scum. FoS remains.

[MathBlade]

But you wanna know what that word is, right?

Or you don't because it's just something to latch onto because you're Scum.

Come on, you wanted to know, so come out and embrace who you are superstar.

I don't give two shits about a word because it is a word. I care about why you are wanting someone to say "word" before answering their damn questions. In an F2F game that I was playing there was a cult and anyone who said a certain phrase for culted. So yes when someone asks for a three letter word and has crumbed a three letter word I get a little paranoid of what happens if I say it.

What I want is to have a goddamn game of Mafia. Not what ever this thread has dissolved into.

[MathBlade]

What I do want to know are your reads and where they stand.

[MathBlade]

I'll let you choose 2 letters at the same at.

Go on, it's OK.

....Mafia. This is Mafia. *sigh* I will gladly play hangman post game or if we both are in dead chat. The fact of the matter is I would guess the italicized letters anyway. Now let's move the fuck onto why you are wanting someone to say a three letter word before answering Klingon's questions?

Who do you read as scum and who do you read as town?

Let's play Mafia people. It is a fun game. It is what this thread is supposed to be.

[MathBlade]

Good god. Wake there are twenty players I don't expect a list of every player that would be nuts. Just a overall idea of what you are thinking is good.

And I ISO all the time. I know the word. But granted that is a common way to cult someone in F2F I didn't want to say that word especially since you were talking about an SK/Cult entity.

I need a break for dinner. The insistence of not playing Mafia by many people is just so damn infuriating.

[MathBlade]

And it is they...Please. I am a they.

[MathBlade]

And it is they...Please. I am a they.

Are you a Hydra?

Bigender. I am one person two genders.

[MathBlade]

F2f is face to face.

[MathBlade]

Anyway since there is scum in your hood luna unfortunately we need to lynch inside it until we find scum ^^

Bad post. There might be scum. It requires thought.

[MathBlade]

Anyway we'll know whether im misinterpreting my results when mastin gets to my question.
So i think it's a moot point to discuss until then.
In the meantime, i still think Klingy's scum.

Why?

[MathBlade]

luna what is the game plan here. All I here in the posts is about your hood, your hood. So what can we do about it. If you think there is scum I would suggest solving it internally because it is hard for us to scum hunt something we cannot see, but a lot of the posts in this game relate back to your hood.
~Suz

That klingly's play is inconsistent with her mind.

Then push him. Kling has a very distinctive meta for getting caught as scum.

I am calling for votes on her, but unfortunately i cant vote her today.

Why not?

[MathBlade]

^ above applies to A50 and TWIE.

Whichever head this is makes me want to cry.

[MathBlade]

luna what is the game plan here. All I here in the posts is about your hood, your hood. So what can we do about it. If you think there is scum I would suggest solving it internally because it is hard for us to scum hunt something we cannot see, but a lot of the posts in this game relate back to your hood.
~Suz

That klingly's play is inconsistent with her mind.

Then push him. Kling has a very distinctive meta for getting caught as scum.

I am calling for votes on her, but unfortunately i cant vote her today.

Why not?

Because i promised i wouldnt lynch anyone in the hood today.

So let me get this straight? You are in a hood with potential scum. And then you make a deal with said potential scum to not lynch them today because.....

[MathBlade]

I empathize with you Luna I do. However I find it completely derp!tastic of anyone town to agree not to lynch in the hood. Hell if someone scum claimed would you not lynch them?

I am guessing it makes sense in the hood but without that context it feels really shady.

[MathBlade]

@Stormblade -- Talk to me about the promise. Does it exist? If yes why did this happen?

[MathBlade]

luna what is the game plan here. All I here in the posts is about your hood, your hood. So what can we do about it. If you think there is scum I would suggest solving it internally because it is hard for us to scum hunt something we cannot see, but a lot of the posts in this game relate back to your hood.
~Suz

That klingly's play is inconsistent with her mind.

Then push him. Kling has a very distinctive meta for getting caught as scum.

I am calling for votes on her, but unfortunately i cant vote her today.

Why not?

Because i promised i wouldnt lynch anyone in the hood today.

@stormblade

[MathBlade]

Null, maybe slightly bothered because you're scum.

Good answer, consistent with previous behaviors. Cool.

-Cerb

This. Does anyone else feel me that this is so fucking contrived and bad and scummy??? In all honestly I would hugely support a RAM lynch today.
-Nahdia

I know, it feels really shitty. Like he was trying to set a trap for me to fall into but then I didn't. Like "oh, that's good. you're safe for now, but WATCH YOUR BACK BITCH"

RAM are still unambiguously scum. I would also like to lynch them today over anyone else, but I'm worried there wouldn't be enough support like there was yesterday.

Then make a case. I will go through RAM's ISO.

[MathBlade]

You mean Luna promising not to vote PT members? I don't recall or see (skimming a bit now) any word for word "promise" from Luna to not vote PT members. What I do know is every time she does she gets screamed at, called "cancer", and accused of gamethrowing. I can't imagine she wants to repeat the experience over and over, though I suspect once Klingon reads this she's gonna get a pretty similar treatment...
-Nahdia

Maybe not the word but the concept. If the concept is not there Luna is free to vote where she likes and no one can scream "wincon" and thus makes the game more enjoyable and enables reads. If there is such a promise it creates a unique dynamic I want to explore.

[MathBlade]

If the concept is not there Luna is free to vote where she likes and no one can scream "wincon" and thus makes the game more enjoyable and enables reads.

I dont think getting yelled at everytime i dare scumread or vote anyone from the PT is an enjoyable experience, do you?

Then it must be balanced with why the person is yelling at you.

Without context it becomes hard to say.

Regardless the agreement does not exist.

Who is your top scum read? Vote there since there are clearly no restrictions on your play based on another hood mate. If they wish to say anti wincon or yell or what not then they need to either vote on it or risk alienating a potential town member.

[MathBlade]

Again I do not think it is as simple as one Nation is a scum faction.

I think it is a game of Mafia in a game of Mafia.

Namely the treaty is absolved when humans from one specific branch remain. So North would dislike West and East etc...

Take the Undead wincon for example if I am right in this world then they would want to lynch one or the other making them scum to some humans and not others. Then in contrast people with that win con are likely in a broad sense "town" because they win with not try to dominate.

So having a broad sense of "town" and "scum" is weird. Can people please read my post ?

[MathBlade]

This is of course assuming if any human scum exist they are dead. But at a high level I think something like that is going on.

[MathBlade]

4828 is my response to your question Almost50.

Not feeling a Salt lynch.

Still ISOing RAM and I am V/LA Saturday/Subday

[MathBlade]

V/LA until late Sunday

Can you please try to limit claims while I am V/LA please???

[MathBlade]

Or option 4 Salt flips Individual Human and the Isolationist hit Beeboy and it means someone who is an individual.

I doubt a faction cop would be able to use the name of the race within it or it would function similar to faction + race cop

[MathBlade]

Hey guys I'm gonna claim while Math is gone.

Please don't. This game makes it hard to sleep as it is :/

[MathBlade]

Individual Vampire ** god I am too sleepy good night

[MathBlade]

i guess ill assume that but i'm kinda thinking about replacing out on the grounds that this isn't mafia if i don't know what my fucking objective is.

I tried to explain it how I see it. Do you agree or disagree with my explanation?

[MathBlade]

For the record (since I don't think I've actually said anything about this) SS' whole one more night thing is absolute shit.

Like, it's fucking terrible, because it means very little.

Here's what's happens if you're town.

1) you recruit someone. We lynch you. You flip town. We know they're town.
2) you fail to recruit someone. Your lynch does the exact same thing it does today.
3) scum KNOW you have to recruit someone tonight, so they just fucking redirect you (because remembwr, in the world where you're town, THERE IS A SCUM REDIRECTOR AROUND), and you end up in 2. Basically, always.

If you're scum, this is what happens:

1) you lie. You tell us you attempted to recruit someone and failed, spew some wifom, get flipped, and it all means nothing. Maybe you did recruit someome, maybe you didn't but it sure as fuck isn't going to help out town.

BUT.

As terrible as it is. It isn't scummy. It's stupid flaily and poorly thought out, because it doesn't take into account the requirement that a redirector exists, but not scummy. Survivalistic, yes. Not scummy.

So yeah, nobody should really consider that an actual reason to keep him alive another day.

However, Toogeloo, it's still fucking stupid of you to knee-jerk vote him for making an obvious statement, he shouldn't have to explain to you how KNOWING someone has a town win con is helpful to town...the fact that there's basically no chance of that actually happening is irrelevant, his point still holds true.

-Cerb

1) Survivalism is scummy. It is a matter of whether or not it comes from scum. Town players sometimes do scummy things.

2) Why are you not considering the possibility of Luna scum? I don't think this is a likely case but logically it is a possibility. Pretty much Luna's actions don't make sense to me as either broad town or broad scum.

Pedit X a billion: Jesus people catching up let me read and post.

[MathBlade]

Hey Mathblade, i got confirmation that i'd get "Individual Vampires Faction" result on Kuroi.
So Isolationist doesnt mean Individual.

@Stormblade: I can confirm that my win condition is word for word identical to dram's but for some stupid reason I can't get confirmation that he counts towards my win condition's "survive" aspect which frankly pisses me off a lot.

/me facepalms

Pants....not you too

[MathBlade]

Luna question -- I can't look it up easily because phone posting. When was the first post (just the day is fine) that you claimed faction cop? Was it d2 with the result or did you claim/crumb before that?

[MathBlade]

Luna question -- I can't look it up easily because phone posting. When was the first post (just the day is fine) that you claimed faction cop? Was it d2 with the result or did you claim/crumb before that?

I claimed that someone in my hood had a faction cop result of Isolationist on SS.
I didn't say it was me specifically just in case.
Later i claimed that the faction cop was Strong Willed, but he saw through my fake claim so the reaction test failed.

@Wake88 did you see my post suggesting what I think is going on? It is the one you didn't read because nachos were required.

@Luna -- Why fake claim strong willed at all? And why identify it as yourself later? It is mainly all the information being shared and likely if there is a Wulden in there then some of it may not be accurate. Why add to this confusion?

@Salt Squad -- For this hypothetical let's assume everything you are saying is true. Why would you waffle on being a smart lynch? If you truly could confirm yourself why would you ever say that?

[MathBlade]

@Luna -- Why fake claim strong willed at all?

To try to eliminate the possibility of redirection from reactions

And why identify it as yourself later?

Read the post where i revealed myself. I was planning on just working as a VT because i didnt want to give more info to scum by them abusing me as a way to get results with redirection, since at the time, i was buying SS's reaction.

It is mainly all the information being shared and likely if there is a Wulden in there then some of it may not be accurate. Why add to this confusion?

I'm not exactly sure what you're asking here.

Nearly everyone in your hood has said some kind of info about the hood/themselves (or who they claim to be). With the possibility of a Wulden spy in the mix it becomes harder the more information over analysis there is the harder it is to find who is telling the truth and if they exist who is lying. Why add to this confusion?

[MathBlade]

VOTE: Salt Squad

Good point about the guilty.

@Song -- Know no. Hypothesis yes.

My hypothesis is that some races just want to survive. Some races just want to have the treaty complete. Then there are broad scum. Assume you are from tribe 1 and look at Titus's flip. It suggests that the 3 directional factions are warring with each other. This either means all north are a threat to the other directions or there are threats within that.

This is one game. All players are "town" aka uninformed but some can't necessarily win with the others. When Titus flipped I went back at why she was so insistent and it is probably because of that.

Then there is the broad overarching game of the 50% scum that need to die.

This is my hypothesis. Make sense?

[MathBlade]

so luna is in informed faction

lets lynch her?

A neighborhood doesn't imply informed though. It is possible the entire neighborhood is scum but I don't see them confirming Luna in that case. However I don't see a town team outing as much as they have either.

[MathBlade]

Confirming Luna is in a PT with them*

[MathBlade]

@mathblade: survivalism is NAI. It is your fucking job, as any alignment, to not get lynched(barring jesters and shit like that). As town, you KNOW a lynch on you is a mislynch, therefore a lynch on literally anyone else is superior, because from your perspective it has a higher chance of being a lynch on scum.

Luna isn't scum because it's fucking stupid to claim a guilty on someone the way she did, when she has an entire PT to use to communicate. Real or interfered with, it's stupid to paint that target on yourself as scum in a multiball game. If she flat out made up a result as scum, it's EVEN STUPIDER.

So yeah. She's not scum. Obviously.

Please don't waste my time again by asking why the most obviously town slot in the game isn't someone I'm willing to consider as scum.
@expedience: fuck off with your stupid request for SS to self vote. All self votes do is fuck with towns ability to analyze wagons, and stifle conversation by ending the day sooner. There's a reason why scum self vote.

I'm appalled at the foolishness of some of the things being said here.

Speaking of which: YOUR JOB IS TO CATCH FUCKING SCUM. IF THERE STOP BEING NIGHT KILLS, AND THE GAME IS NOT OVER, THEN FUCKING WORRY ABOUT YOUR ANCILLIARY GOALS.

Until then, do your fucking jobs.

-Cerb

Pedit: No, the fact that he referred to the result on him as a guilty is MEANINGLESS because the GAME has been treating it as such.

On the majority of that I agree. Survivalism can be AI or NAI depending on who and how. And as town I agree that if I was lynch on me is a mislynch yes. It is more between the guilty phrase pointed out by Almost50 and the fact that Salt Squad is waffling between themselves being a good lynch or not.

[MathBlade]

.......

"Let's just say I'm not opposed to anything. But if you're gonna pull your dick out, it'd better be for an Academy Award-winning movie." -- Zac Efron

This is the quote of the game. People should think about this.

Luna has in essence put her dick out to lynch who she thinks scum is.

There are IMHO three scenarios
1) Luna's information is right and she is telling the truth.
2) Luna's information is wrong but she believes it to be true.
3) Luna is making shit up.

Step 3 is suicide.
Step 2 is highly unlikely.

Therefore the most likely thing is Luna is telling the truth.

[MathBlade]

Mathblade, I don't believe your last post meant anything. Everyone already knew that Luna obviously believes her result, and that as a result Luna is obviously town.

What exactly was the point of that post?

-Cerb

It is to establish to you that you are not voting SS. Therefore option 2 or 3 is your world and I want to understand why you are in that world and not pushing Luna / SS to figure out which it is.

[MathBlade]

Mainly that if it is point 2 that you don't seem to be trying to find out how in option 2 scum knew how to redirect Luna. It is why I asked them last night about when they first claimed. Option 2 IMHO requires the scum team to be psychic and/or in Luna's hood.

And even if they were why they would redirect on themselves when a claimed watcher is in the hood. I don't see you trying to answer that it looks more like you are trying to save SS.

[MathBlade]

Mainly that if it is point 2 that you don't seem to be trying to find out how in option 2 scum knew how to redirect Luna. It is why I asked them last night about when they first claimed. Option 2 IMHO requires the scum team to be psychic and/or in Luna's hood.

And even if they were why they would redirect on themselves when a claimed watcher is in the hood. I don't see you trying to answer that it looks more like you are trying to save SS.

I don't believe anyone has said that Klingon was claimed yesterday. Nahdia said that she thought about making a blanket statement to have doctors/watchers in their PT target Luna, but chose not to because she thought it was obvious. The phrasing she used would seem to indicate that there was no claim of a watcher, or else she would have specifically called out KC. That's how I interpret that statement at least.

I'm also not suggesting that they redirected on themselves? Multi-factional game. This could just as easily be a random redirect(though if they KNEW Luna wasn't targeting within her PT(which is something she announced) a framing redirect becomes almost certain).

I feel as though you have a rather weak understanding of the game state here Mathblade. Or at least, not exactly accurate recollection of the claims which have been made regarding events.

-Cerb

They would have to for it to make sense.

http://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?title=Redirector

Based on how a redirector works is that it targets all actions according to the wiki. And if this is bastard and only targeted a specific action then they would have to redirect to someone they would know had the alternative information Luna was looking at. And they would then have to frame on top of that or luckily hit another scum or cult. If they have a framer redirect becomes moot.

If the redirect without framer was the case, that seems stupid as then unless they knew that Luna was targeting scum. If they knew Luna was targeting scum they would redirect her onto herself to deny use of her power. The fact it is a guilty means they redirected onto themselves or cult.

I agree that there is probably scum in the PT Ram it is way too op. However if I

[MathBlade]

Mainly that if it is point 2 that you don't seem to be trying to find out how in option 2 scum knew how to redirect Luna. It is why I asked them last night about when they first claimed. Option 2 IMHO requires the scum team to be psychic and/or in Luna's hood.

And even if they were why they would redirect on themselves when a claimed watcher is in the hood. I don't see you trying to answer that it looks more like you are trying to save SS.

I don't believe anyone has said that Klingon was claimed yesterday. Nahdia said that she thought about making a blanket statement to have doctors/watchers in their PT target Luna, but chose not to because she thought it was obvious. The phrasing she used would seem to indicate that there was no claim of a watcher, or else she would have specifically called out KC. That's how I interpret that statement at least.

I'm also not suggesting that they redirected on themselves? Multi-factional game. This could just as easily be a random redirect(though if they KNEW Luna wasn't targeting within her PT(which is something she announced) a framing redirect becomes almost certain).

I feel as though you have a rather weak understanding of the game state here Mathblade. Or at least, not exactly accurate recollection of the claims which have been made regarding events.

-Cerb

They would have to for it to make sense.

http://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?title=Redirector

Based on how a redirector works is that it targets all actions according to the wiki.

And if this is bastard and only targeted a specific action then they would have to redirect to someone they would know had the alternative information Luna was looking at.

And they would then have to frame on top of that or luckily hit another scum or cult. If they have a framer redirect becomes moot.

If the redirect without framer was the case, that seems stupid as then unless they knew that Luna was targeting scum. If they knew Luna was targeting scum they would redirect her onto herself to deny use of her power. The fact it is a guilty means they redirected onto themselves or cult.

I agree that there is probably scum in the PT Ram it is way too op. However if I

I don't understand the bold.

You are correct that redirecting onto herself actually seems like a more consistently useful play than a random redirect, or a frame when you don't know who the actual intended target is going to be.

Hmm.

I hadn't considered the self redirection option. That eh, that sorta messes with the whole redirection thing, because it makes it far less likely that the necessary usage we'd have to see in order for SS to be town was the actual way it would be used.

Framer is super unlikely, simply because it's like 1/(27-size of lunas PT) x 1/(27-size of scum team) that the framers target would line up with lunas. So, like less than a .25% chance that a framer would actually frame the right target.

Fuck.

-Cerb

The redirector wiki says all actions.

If a role doesn't follow the wiki ergo bastard.

The alternative information is the nation/location Luna asked about.

[MathBlade]

What are your thoughts, Luna, on the relation of your PT's power level to the likelihood that it contains scum?

-Cerb

I agree with you the hood likely contains scum. It is with town reading Luna and the mental gymnastics I would have to go through to have Salt Squad be town

(E.g. Suboptimal play of redirecting anywhere but Luna herself)

That not lynching Salt Squad is too much to swallow.

Like pitch to me what scum do to make this scenario happen without a framer. Because that is the part I do not get.

[MathBlade]

This is off topic, specious speculation blah blah, but creating roles that function in a unique way makes the game interesting, it isn't somehow a negative thing for the game.

That's just my opinion, again coming from someone who plays in games which are generally full of unique roles and mechanics.

-Cerb

Pedit: oh, because you can't scumhunt without relying on PRs? :p The point of a redirector is the target of the redirection does not have any way of knowing they were redirected. If every slot has a secondary check which is also messed with, it functionally gives anyone who is redirected a very easy way to discover that they were redirected, thereby removing a lot of the utility from that role. Maybe that helps you better understand where I was coming from?

It's irrelevant now though, I'm no longer sure redirection must have been involved, so..:/

Basically I'm stuck witth ither scum was stupid/very greedy and used their redirection in a very risky fashion, a framer hit the correct target at that .25% chance, or SS is just really really bad and deliberately took a very incompetent path to defend themselves.

And it is that bottom paragraph is why I am voting SS. The hypocritical stances SS has taken makes the most likely scenario that they are not town aligned. Is it possible? Yes. Likely enough to consider lynching elsewhere no.

I have to go. Can someone do a temp vote count until Mastin gets on so we know where we are at?

[MathBlade]

Go ahead and Lynch me if you must but nosferatu visited Luna fox and was the only person to do so and Luna fox died overnight

Rach Marie also checked Luna fox so there is my watcher proof

My whole undead slave faction but me is now dead

Why do ppl want to Lynch Kling? What happened in the game.before this

1) soooo the entire undead slave faction is dead?
2) The issue isn't whether or not you are a watcher IMO. It is whether you are scum or not.
3) KlingonCelt didn't have authentic reads.

[MathBlade]

I love how you guys are like "aggression=scum"

When did I move to bizarro world

Actually it's more like:

"The last 235 pages of game indicate your slot is scum and your reluctance to read the game and be helpful is at best anti-town. So I'm pretty sure you're scum."

How would reading the game be helpful

How could it possibly be more useful than outing my watcher guilty

Not mutually exclusive especially if you are a Wulden spy and all the Undead are dead. Don't really see 5 Undead in this game. With 28 people.

KlingonCelt changed their reads to match what I said their reads were rather than actually saying I made a mistake. They keep changing and flopping to try to "feel" beneficial rather than be authentic.

[MathBlade]

Good job town I think. Lol, I was tunneling on RAM + Cephrir at different points on Day 1 and got talked out of it by town players. Fucking knew they were scum.

Based on flips, I think DGB is town. Mathblade too. DGB's (lack of) play worried me but she was pushing for lynches on RAM. I don't see her bussing like that when there's already a guilty on SS in the same faction, because she could have just bussed SS for towncred like Cephrir did. Mathblade I need to check, but IIRC she was happy lynching both RAM and SS as well. Again I think it's unlikely that the scum would bus on RAM if there's already a guilty on SS. Also I nationed checked Math and she was West Empire. It seems to me that the West Empire Nation being scum is an anomaly. I'm more inclined to think she's Titus' faction or another Town, not scum. We need a cult flip BADLY at this point though to know what their general patterns are but for now I think Mathblade is town.

Town:
DGB
Mathblade

I think Wulden are probably the cult, as it makes sense the scum need to eliminate Wulden entirely to win. I don't think that every single Wulden will be cult, but I agree with Copper now that it's very likely they're close to 90% culters - sorry Copper. I'm happy with LLD lynch - especially since Cephrir wanted us to NOT lynch them. It could be reverse psychology and/or just WIFOM at this point - he pushed on SS hard because that bus would make him almost conftown. I'm glad the Town Vigilantes knew their shit. SS' flip probably helped too since it heavily indicated that most of the scum were actually Nosferatu.

Based on play, I'm having trouble sorting all the players in this game but I think even more strongly that Wayward Thinker is scum. The lack of interaction between them and RAM, Cephrir and if I'm remembering correctly SS townread them at some point? Still have the fact that Kuroi got counter-wagoned from Wayward as well. We need to lynch Wayward's slot ASAP.

I think Wulden are probably the cult, as it makes sense the scum need to eliminate Wulden entirely to win. I don't think that every single Wulden will be cult, but I agree with Copper now that it's very likely they're close to 90% culters - sorry Copper. I'm happy with LLD lynch - especially since Cephrir wanted us to NOT lynch them. It could be reverse psychology and/or just WIFOM at this point - he pushed on SS hard because that bus would make him almost conftown. I'm glad the Town Vigilantes knew their shit. SS' flip probably helped too since it heavily indicated that most of the scum were actually Nosferatu.

I think Klingon/Bacde is scum (or cult). The fact that the entire hood has been basically razed except for them piques my interest. They were the most conftown players in the game. I guess Bacde could be town but I really doubt it based on their play.

Toogleoo is town based on his play imo, Wake too. They've both made mechanics blunders but their play makes a lot of sense to me and they reach similar conclusions. So overall I see town as:

Toogeloo
Mathblade - West Empire
DGB
Wake

I'll have to do some re-reading because basically all my top scumreads are dead except Wayward Thinker, which is really nice actually. Having some strong townreads doesn't hurt though.

@Toogeloo, Mathblade, DGB, Wake - what do you guys think is the best course of action?

Good god RB. What's the biggest thing I talk about? Pants.

What is the thing I despise?

Claims.

What did you do?

Claim me to be something of which I will not confirm or deny.

I think we lynch between Bacde or LLD here. Bacde because their entire hood just up and died meaning obv scum or LLD because of the Wulden claim. Need to read a few things in KlingonCelt's play.

[MathBlade]

Honestly, I'm thinking this '

Destroyer of Worlds

' has some part in all of these deaths. If anyone received a message during the Night no matter how trivial I need you to share it because it's important. Now is not the time to withhold any messages.

Stop mechanics hunting and start scum hunting seriously.

[MathBlade]

@Mathblade: you think even nation claims are that bad? It's an ability every single player in this game has :/

Yes because it is a part of your role. As I hypothesized earlier that the different directions probably hate each other, regardless of right or wrong, this puts a target on my back.

Like seriously. That claim did NOTHING to help the thread.