Gistou (Over!)

Salt Squad · Post Post #4775 (ISO) » Thu Jul 21, 2016 8:48 am

In post 4539, davesaz wrote:Yay, I'm all caught up. LLD and SS could both be scum, but I continue to think we are better off focusing on the faction cop result. If Luna is the actual faction cop (as it now seems she is claiming), and not just someone from a hood reporting what another hood member said, then she's reporting the faction correctly (within the bounds of a bastard game) or she's lying and scum and our lynch tomorrow. Furthermore if she's scum then the whole neighborhood thing could be a ruse and we get a bunch of suspects.

r e d i r e c t o r

In post 4630, Luna Fox wrote:rb confirmed enemy of the humanity treaty.

wat

lld should die today
storm and co can die tomorrow

-sc

ISO · Post Post #4776 (ISO) » Thu Jul 21, 2016 9:02 am

there's no reason to believe lld is scum unless you believe every race cop is essentially a faction cop

meanwhile we have an ACTUAL faction cop result

Wake1 · Post Post #4777 (ISO) » Thu Jul 21, 2016 9:07 am

Frankly, I'm lost in this game.

LA until 7/30/16.

RAM · Post Post #4778 (ISO) » Thu Jul 21, 2016 9:11 am

In post 4778, Cephrir wrote:there's no reason to believe lld is scum unless you believe every race cop is essentially a faction cop

meanwhile we have an ACTUAL faction cop result

I've been over this Ceph.

SS's reaction just doesn't make sense. Just envision how this all plays out with SS!scum just rolling with the isolationist result. He goes yeah, I'm isolationist, so what? She says what's that factions win con? He says remove all threats. She says oh. okay.

...

That's it. I mean, maybe she keeps asking him more questions, but...that's CERTAINLY less suspicious than saying no. Your result must be wrong.

No way(well, okay, super friggin unlikely) that SS!scum goes with "naw man, your faction cop was totally redirected".

-Cerb

ISO · Post Post #4779 (ISO) » Thu Jul 21, 2016 9:20 am

In post 4780, RAM wrote:SS's reaction just doesn't make sense. Just envision how this all plays out with SS!scum just rolling with the isolationist result. He goes yeah, I'm isolationist, so what? She says what's that factions win con? He says remove all threats. She says oh. okay.

and what do you think happens when their scumbuddy later flips isolationist?

RAM · Post Post #4780 (ISO) » Thu Jul 21, 2016 9:32 am

In post 4781, Cephrir wrote:
In post 4780, RAM wrote:SS's reaction just doesn't make sense. Just envision how this all plays out with SS!scum just rolling with the isolationist result. He goes yeah, I'm isolationist, so what? She says what's that factions win con? He says remove all threats. She says oh. okay.
and what do you think happens when their scumbuddy later flips isolationist?

True, assuming SS!Scum it does mean that a scumflip at any point would guarantee their death.

I just feel like the argument they used is way more likely to result in their death today, which is absolutely inferior to their partners future death resulting in their own(since it's possible they could win without ever losing a partner), and it denies the information to town earlier in the game, which could be used to catch their partners sooner.

-Cerb

RAM · Post Post #4781 (ISO) » Thu Jul 21, 2016 9:36 am

In post 4776, copper223 wrote:I am voting LLD cause Wulden is more or less a cult/scum claim given our information, the rest she likely made up.

This is my position. Well, the first part, about the information we've been given about your hood and the membership and the potential spy being a wulden, sorta all points to wulden being anti-town for MECHANICAL reasons, not flavor ones.

-Cerb

Wayward Thinker · Post Post #4782 (ISO) » Thu Jul 21, 2016 9:56 am

In post 4362, Stormblade wrote:rb, you do realize there's a huge number of factions in this game, right? I'm 99% every faction we've seen flip so far is town, though not necessarily all of them can win with each other. I'm also like, 90% the Individual Human faction could win with ANY of them. There's nothing I've seen that requires the Individual Human Faction to be a group of xenophobic fuckheads. Literally the factions that have flipped thus far are confirmed town based on mechanics; their wincons are "eliminates all threats" not "control's 50% of the votes" which is listed as the scum wincon in the mechanics post. You need to stop being so closed-minded about this, actually look at the flavor of the people who are flipping, and really THINK "does this sound like a threat to me?" rather than just seeing "oh it's a faction oh hurr durr vampires r evil guess that's scum."

The way this town works is that there's various town factions, all or virtually all of which have a number of mutual enemies (right now I suspect a Wulden and Nosferatu faction, as well as a full cult we're mod confirmed to know nothing about, not the recruiter factions we've seen which were explained in the mechanics posts). However, not every town faction can necessarily win with every town faction, there MIGHT be some conflict there. But again, I'm positive the Individual Humans are the neutrals that can win with all of them.

-Nahdia

You just pulled one of my secret scum tells I look for, congrats.

Stormblade · Post Post #4783 (ISO) » Thu Jul 21, 2016 9:58 am

In post 4784, Wayward Thinker wrote:
In post 4362, Stormblade wrote:rb, you do realize there's a huge number of factions in this game, right? I'm 99% every faction we've seen flip so far is town, though not necessarily all of them can win with each other. I'm also like, 90% the Individual Human faction could win with ANY of them. There's nothing I've seen that requires the Individual Human Faction to be a group of xenophobic fuckheads. Literally the factions that have flipped thus far are confirmed town based on mechanics; their wincons are "eliminates all threats" not "control's 50% of the votes" which is listed as the scum wincon in the mechanics post. You need to stop being so closed-minded about this, actually look at the flavor of the people who are flipping, and really THINK "does this sound like a threat to me?" rather than just seeing "oh it's a faction oh hurr durr vampires r evil guess that's scum."

The way this town works is that there's various town factions, all or virtually all of which have a number of mutual enemies (right now I suspect a Wulden and Nosferatu faction, as well as a full cult we're mod confirmed to know nothing about, not the recruiter factions we've seen which were explained in the mechanics posts). However, not every town faction can necessarily win with every town faction, there MIGHT be some conflict there. But again, I'm positive the Individual Humans are the neutrals that can win with all of them.

-Nahdia
You just pulled one of my secret scum tells I look for, congrats.

Sorry to hear I'll be hurting your reliability scores then.

-Nahdia

Toogeloo · Post Post #4784 (ISO) » Thu Jul 21, 2016 10:01 am

Catchup through Page 178 during break... some comments:

In post 4377, rb wrote:Why are we so certain that Wulden is cult again?

My Role PM specifically mentions that Wulden are cult in the flavor.

In post 4419, RAM wrote:This is the friggin proof FA. Mastins post: They win if all threats to them are eliminated. EVERY SINGLE WIN CON WE'VE SEEN(AND YOU'RE OWN, ASSUMING YOU'RE TOWN): "You win if all threats to are eliminated".

There is nothing to suggest certain factions aren't threats to each other, just as there is nothing to suggest that other factions can't be threatened by each other. My main point is that Kuroi, an Individual Vampire, has redacted FACTIONAL information, and that SS also claimed to be an Individual Vampire, so therefore, it would suggest that SS also would have that redacted factional information as well. Kuroi LIED and claimed HUMAN before he was lynched, and then flipped Vampire, so why would he do that unless he was against the town? So if they both share the same wincon, and one of them lied, then it's safe to assume they both are against town.

Toogeloo · Post Post #4785 (ISO) » Thu Jul 21, 2016 10:03 am

In post 4786, Toogeloo wrote:My Role PM specifically mentions that Wulden are cult in the flavor.

More specifically (while still paraphrased), my flavor states that one of my enemies are Wulden that were once bandits but are now cult.

Toogeloo · Post Post #4786 (ISO) » Thu Jul 21, 2016 10:04 am

Will finish my skim-catchup later.

ISO · Post Post #4787 (ISO) » Thu Jul 21, 2016 10:22 am

i'm not even gonna respond to that heap of garbage.

ISO · Post Post #4788 (ISO) » Thu Jul 21, 2016 10:22 am

you're not listening, clearly, so there would be no point

Wayward Thinker · Post Post #4789 (ISO) » Thu Jul 21, 2016 10:35 am

I'm at the top of page 182.

I have a crazy theory.

Out of all the flips we have seen, none of them have been really standard, meaning there is a lot of other shit going along with the Nation/Location/Race check thing in general, so why aren't LLD and SS mentioning their other abilities? The crazy theory here is that they are both part of a Scum faction.

mastin2 · Post Post #4790 (ISO) » Thu Jul 21, 2016 10:45 am

THIS POST HAS BEEN EDITED TO CONTAIN A VOTECOUNT. IT IS LISTED BELOW.

trivia"To fight a disease, sometimes, you need a disease."

--Hans Pohl.

Twenty-ninth Votecount

:

(Second Votecount D2)

Lady Lambdadelta - 9 (Expedience, Wake88, Almost50, Stormblade, Wayward Thinker, Toogeloo, DrippingGoofball, copper223, RAM)

Salt Squad - 2 (davesaz, Cephrir)

Wayward Thinker - 2 (Tim, rb)
Klingoncelt - 1 (Salt Squad)
Stormblade - 1 (A Song of Ice and Fire)
Almost50 - 1 (Lady Lambdadelta)
Wake88 - 1 (No Retreat)
Cephrir - 1 (Nosferatu)
copper223 - 1 (Luna Fox)

Not Voting - 5 (Heartless, Klingoncelt, Mathblade, TheWayItEnds, RachMarie)

With

24

alive, it takes

13

to lynch.

Day 1's deadline is Wednesday, August 10th, @ 9:00 PM PST: (expired on 2016-08-10 21:00:00).
At deadline,

Lady Lambdadelta

would be lynched.

Extras

Spoiler: Changes from Last Votecount

Last votecount was post 4084, page 164.

Spoiler: Player Votecount History Day 2

Spoiler: Players Voted D2 History

Spoiler: Voting Chronology Day 2

Changes from last votecount section is unsalvageable. I tried. I really, really, really did try. But when you have SOME players who cast FIVE OR MORE VOTES, it really becomes a bit hard to

not

be an absolute trainwreck. So while the information in there may, or may not, be technically accurate, I did give up on trying to make it look pretty. But the other sections should be workable.

Below this is the original content of this post.

First points of clarification for the day, which I'm sure will be two of many:
-Very explicitly, as per the mechanics post: a player's FULL ORIGINAL ROLE will flip. Their NEW ROLE, when applicable, will

also

flip, with the modifications. I will tell you which is the original and which is the modified, when this happens. (It has not thusfar, as all flips so far have been original.)
-Race and Faction are not used interchangeably. To give an example from flips we have, it is not a guarantee every member of the Individual Vampire faction is in fact actually a vampire. It is not a guarantee every vampire is a member of the Individual Vampire faction. This is because, again,

RACE AN FACTION ARE TWO SEPARATE THINGS

. There is obviously some overlap, as Kuroi's flip demonstrates (Vampire who was a member of the Individual Vampire faction), but they cannot be used as synonyms.

Salt Squad · Post Post #4791 (ISO) » Thu Jul 21, 2016 10:48 am

In post 4791, Wayward Thinker wrote:I'm at the top of page 182.

I have a crazy theory.

Out of all the flips we have seen, none of them have been really standard, meaning there is a lot of other shit going along with the Nation/Location/Race check thing in general, so why aren't LLD and SS mentioning their other abilities? The crazy theory here is that they are both part of a Scum faction.

I already full claimed read the game before you accuse 2 towns of being scum thanks.

Expedience · Post Post #4792 (ISO) » Thu Jul 21, 2016 10:52 am

In post 4563, Cephrir wrote:
In post 4558, Salt Squad wrote:No I am serious Luna claimed cop in her neighborhood to scum.
That means that scum knew who she wanted to confirm so they could redirect her to someone who has the same information as the person she was checking.
it annoys me when people present their POV like fact.

It's also a towntell.

UNVOTE: LLD

VOTE: RAM

(disclaimer: haven't read the entire thread yet)

davesaz · Post Post #4793 (ISO) » Thu Jul 21, 2016 10:55 am

Someone asked for exasperated smiley.

Wayward Thinker · Post Post #4794 (ISO) » Thu Jul 21, 2016 11:01 am

To the hood:

Off the album Kill 'Em All.

mastin2 · Post Post #4795 (ISO) » Thu Jul 21, 2016 11:05 am

Another point of clarification:

FACTIONAL RECRUITS:

There may be some slight moderator inconsistency in these that would cause confusion. However, the following facts are both public and true:
-Unless otherwise specified,

ALL non-human factions have a recruit

.
-Unless otherwise specified,

This recruit can ONLY succeed on HUMANS

.
-Unless otherwise specified,

Only one recruit per faction can succeed

.
This one, in particular, may be confusing. Say Player X and Player Y share the same win condition.
If Player X and Player Y both attempt to recruit during the same night, both recruits will fail.
If Player X attempted a recruit and failed N1, but Player Y attempted a valid recruit N2, Player Y will succeed.
If Player X attempted a recruit N1 and succeeded, then Player Y attempting a recruit N2 will fail no matter what.

If you have further questions, continue to ask them, and I will continue to give clarifications as I see them.

For further reading, refer to the second-to-last bulletpoint in the mechanics post.

DrippingGoofball · Post Post #4796 (ISO) » Thu Jul 21, 2016 11:25 am

In post 4776, copper223 wrote:I am voting LLD cause Wulden is more or less a cult/scum claim given our information, the rest she likely made up.

exactly, this must be done

Toogeloo · Post Post #4797 (ISO) » Thu Jul 21, 2016 11:29 am

Caught up to this quote....

In post 4602, Salt Squad wrote:
In post 4600, TheWayItEnds wrote:You mean besides toog and molla?
Toog was claimed Human day 1 o3o

No, I think the question was, why didn't you try to recruit me on Night 1 since I claimed Human?

I hate all the dismissals at Kuroi and making the assumption he must be town simply because his wincon doesn't say greater than 50%. We already know this is multi-ball. He has redacted information, and he lied. It's

possible

he's not the main mafia team, but I certainly don't believe he was town in the least. dram might be the main mafia team, or cult, given his wincon is different, but I refuse to believe that all players that have "when all threats are eliminated" as their wincon are automatically town, especially if flipped players lied about their race and have information that has been redacted from their role PM.

Toogeloo · Post Post #4798 (ISO) » Thu Jul 21, 2016 11:33 am

Like, people are literally guessing he was an idiot and thought he was scum... who honestly could make this mistake?

"Oh, der... I am a Vampire, I must be scum, but mastina didn't tell me who my scum buddies are, so I'll just lie and claim Human and try to find them later."

Lady Lambdadelta · Post Post #4799 (ISO) » Thu Jul 21, 2016 11:39 am

In post 4797, mastin2 wrote:Another point of clarification:

FACTIONAL RECRUITS:

There may be some slight moderator inconsistency in these that would cause confusion. However, the following facts are both public and true:
-Unless otherwise specified,
ALL non-human factions have a recruit
.
-Unless otherwise specified,
This recruit can ONLY succeed on HUMANS
.
-Unless otherwise specified,
Only one recruit per faction can succeed
.
This one, in particular, may be confusing. Say Player X and Player Y share the same win condition.
If Player X and Player Y both attempt to recruit during the same night, both recruits will fail.
If Player X attempted a recruit and failed N1, but Player Y attempted a valid recruit N2, Player Y will succeed.
If Player X attempted a recruit N1 and succeeded, then Player Y attempting a recruit N2 will fail no matter what.

If you have further questions, continue to ask them, and I will continue to give clarifications as I see them.

For further reading, refer to the second-to-last bulletpoint in the mechanics post.

To be clear to everyone lynching me for cult panic.

"ALL NON HUMAN FACTIONS HAVE A RECRUIT UNLESS OTHERWISE SPECIFIED."

Specifying factions and not RACES, should tell you everything you need to know about Individual Wulden and whether I have anything to do with a cult, so.