Gistou (Over!)

[Cephrir]

I guess I'm just going to file this concern in my back pocket.

[Wake1]

I'd bet my left nut on Eastern Kingdom being the human-scum faction. Especially since we've had zero claims from there whatsoever.

And even then Wake claimed Easter Kingdom Faction, this by default means that it's something safe to claim.

Wait a minute.

Are you even reading my posts?

[rb]

How come it didn't tell me you ninja'd me

As far as I know, there's been claims of human town from Northern Tribes, a number of individual factions and some treaty claimers. Titus flipped West Faction. The only human-flavour place in terms of alignment that we haven't seen any claims or flips from is Eastern Kingdom.

[Luna Fox]

Yeah i misrememebred, ops, sorry >.<

[Wake1]

I suspect a Scum group could comprise very different players on race, nation, location, and maybe even faction. Faction doesn't mean you can't be a part of Scum. Scum could have a member rooted in each faction.

[Tim]

Guys We're getting into specious speculation again

[rb]

I suspect a Scum group could comprise very different players on race, nation, location, and maybe even faction. Faction doesn't mean you can't be a part of Scum. Scum could have a member rooted in each faction.

Faction is your WinCon though...you mean scum could have members from different nations/locations I take it?

[Wake1]

Yeah i misrememebred, ops, sorry >.<

'Misremembered.'

[davesaz]

I can confirm there's only Undead or Wulden in the PT, but it's in a connotation that includes them as if they are the bad guys/infiltrators. We've all been thinking Wulden is possibly our enemy, I do disagree that necessarily ALL wulden are our enemies.

copper still scum, however.

P-Edit: nice find Ceph.

Have you considered the possibility that all of the PT are race=undead but one or more of them could be a different faction? I believe it goes something like "some you think are allies are actually enemies". And if there are any undead in a scum faction they would have fakeclaims, in particular it would follow that they must have the wincon available to fakeclaim.

It goes both ways, wulden doesn't necessarily imply scum, and undead doesn't necessarily imply town.

I think we should be playing this more like a mafia game, looking for scummy behavior.

pedit: And I got ninja'd on a faction could include multiple races. Oh well, story of this game.

[Wake1]

I suspect a Scum group could comprise very different players on race, nation, location, and maybe even faction. Faction doesn't mean you can't be a part of Scum. Scum could have a member rooted in each faction.

Faction is your WinCon though...you mean scum could have members from different nations/locations I take it?

Exactly.

Don't trust people just because they say/you think you're of the same faction, EVEN if you can communicate privately with your factions.

Think about it. If you assume the four factions are separate Towns how much space are you leaving for Scum?

If Factions are like separate Towns, I strongly suspect Scum could be spread among them.

[Luna Fox]

I can confirm there's only Undead or Wulden in the PT, but it's in a connotation that includes them as if they are the bad guys/infiltrators. We've all been thinking Wulden is possibly our enemy, I do disagree that necessarily ALL wulden are our enemies.

copper still scum, however.

P-Edit: nice find Ceph.

Have you considered the possibility that all of the PT are race=undead but one or more of them could be a different faction? I believe it goes something like "some you think are allies are actually enemies". And if there are any undead in a scum faction they would have fakeclaims, in particular it would follow that they must have the wincon available to fakeclaim.

It goes both ways, wulden doesn't necessarily imply scum, and undead doesn't necessarily imply town.

I think we should be playing this more like a mafia game, looking for scummy behavior.

pedit: And I got ninja'd on a faction could include multiple races. Oh well, story of this game.

So there's still scum in the hood, your point?

[rb]

I suspect a Scum group could comprise very different players on race, nation, location, and maybe even faction. Faction doesn't mean you can't be a part of Scum. Scum could have a member rooted in each faction.

Faction is your WinCon though...you mean scum could have members from different nations/locations I take it?

Exactly.

Don't trust people just because they say/you think you're of the same faction, EVEN if you can communicate privately with your factions.

Think about it. If you assume the four factions are separate Towns how much space are you leaving for Scum?

If Factions are like separate Towns, I strongly suspect Scum could be spread among them.

I think we are talking past each other, or we're not getting something.

Faction is your WinCon and you can't be say, West Empire Faction and be scum. We know that from Titus' flip.

But yes you could have your NATION as West Empire and your Faction as scum, not aligned with West Empire.

I'm also doing the opposite of assuming the four factions are separate Towns, I'm saying it's highly likely based on the flips/claims so far that the unclaimed/unflipped faction (Eastern Kingdom) is scummy.

[Tim]

I feel like this is all pretty obvious. I forgot if I mentioned it before but the likelihood of a "spy" in the undeads is high and it's just as high a chance Celt is that spy.

[rb]

I feel like this is all pretty obvious. I forgot if I mentioned it before but the likelihood of a "spy" in the undeads is high and it's just as high a chance Celt is that spy.

Maybe but I want to see how people are thinking because apparently it's really hard to get people to accept that race =/= faction so who knows what other weird af ideas people have in this game. I think it's somewhat important for people to understand what's going on, so that scum can't manipulate these unknowns for their benefit.

[rb]

Also I've said like 50million times who I scumread and who I wanna lynch and I don't see a point repeating "pls vote WT" over and over.

[copper223]

My god rb, that post makes sense!

[Luna Fox]

Let's assume that either case (Wulden or Undead spy) could be true, if it's Wulden, they have an Undead fake claim, if it's Undead, they have a fake claim too.
So this lil tidbit of info, is pointless.
The fact of the matter is that there's still possible scum in the hood and that's what matters, stop posting comments that dont help find scum pls.

[rb]

Let's assume that either case (Wulden or Undead spy) could be true, if it's Wulden, they have an Undead fake claim, if it's Undead, they have a fake claim too.
So this lil tidbit of info, is pointless.
The fact of the matter is that there's still possible scum in the hood and that's what matters, stop posting comments that dont help find scum pls.

Okay, but you're gonna just work it out in the hood anyway. I would honestly say that it's 10x better if the hood just posts their shit in the main thread because it's much easier to fool like 3-4 people than 20+ and if you DO have a spy/spies then you're just as susceptible to being manipulated as in the main thread anyway. Like you're suddenly townreading copper again but there's nary a peep as to why and whether you still think there's scum InDaHood and who it might be.

[Wake1]

I suspect a Scum group could comprise very different players on race, nation, location, and maybe even faction. Faction doesn't mean you can't be a part of Scum. Scum could have a member rooted in each faction.

Faction is your WinCon though...you mean scum could have members from different nations/locations I take it?

Exactly.

Don't trust people just because they say/you think you're of the same faction, EVEN if you can communicate privately with your factions.

Think about it. If you assume the four factions are separate Towns how much space are you leaving for Scum?

If Factions are like separate Towns, I strongly suspect Scum could be spread among them.

I think we are talking past each other, or we're not getting something.

Faction is your WinCon and you can't be say, West Empire Faction and be scum. We know that from Titus' flip.

But yes you could have your NATION as West Empire and your Faction as scum, not aligned with West Empire.

I'm also doing the opposite of assuming the four factions are separate Towns, I'm saying it's highly likely based on the flips/claims so far that the unclaimed/unflipped faction (Eastern Kingdom) is scummy.

I don't know.

If Scum are given fakeclaims/totally different fakeclaim role PMs, I don't know the extent.

In my gut I get the feeling that if there are Faction PTs that Scum could be within. I'm not an 'Individual' of the Northern Tribes, but I never received a PT.

Also I'm not as inclined as you are to think a whole major faction could be Scum. If anything, I could see Scum having its members hidden among them.

I mean, come on. In a regular game we have the Town and the Scum. I assume the major Factions are like major Towns, and that Scum can be spread broadly across the 'Towns.'

We also haven't seen a Scum flip yet, so we can't know that Scum couldn't have been given the trappings of a certain Faction, but have it tweaked in whatever way Mastin wants it to look like.

[Luna Fox]

I would honestly say that it's 10x better if the hood just posts their shit in the main thread because it's much easier to fool like 3-4 people than 20+

THANK YOU!
Finally someone who understands why i have such a hard time with hoods in the first place.

[Wake1]

Luna how is your PT classified?

Is it a Faction PT or just a randomly named Neighborhood?

[rb]

I suspect a Scum group could comprise very different players on race, nation, location, and maybe even faction. Faction doesn't mean you can't be a part of Scum. Scum could have a member rooted in each faction.

Faction is your WinCon though...you mean scum could have members from different nations/locations I take it?

Exactly.

Don't trust people just because they say/you think you're of the same faction, EVEN if you can communicate privately with your factions.

Think about it. If you assume the four factions are separate Towns how much space are you leaving for Scum?

If Factions are like separate Towns, I strongly suspect Scum could be spread among them.

I think we are talking past each other, or we're not getting something.

Faction is your WinCon and you can't be say, West Empire Faction and be scum. We know that from Titus' flip.

But yes you could have your NATION as West Empire and your Faction as scum, not aligned with West Empire.

I'm also doing the opposite of assuming the four factions are separate Towns, I'm saying it's highly likely based on the flips/claims so far that the unclaimed/unflipped faction (Eastern Kingdom) is scummy.

I don't know.

If Scum are given fakeclaims/totally different fakeclaim role PMs, I don't know the extent.

In my gut I get the feeling that if there are Faction PTs that Scum could be within. I'm not an 'Individual' of the Northern Tribes, but I never received a PT.

Also I'm not as inclined as you are to think a whole major faction could be Scum. If anything, I could see Scum having its members hidden among them.

I mean, come on. In a regular game we have the Town and the Scum. I assume the major Factions are like major Towns, and that Scum can be spread broadly across the 'Towns.'

We also haven't seen a Scum flip yet, so we can't know that Scum couldn't have been given the trappings of a certain Faction, but have it tweaked in whatever way Mastin wants it to look like.

Eh, but Mastin said:

Your faction is your wincon. They are not public information.

Like by definition, you cannot possibly be West Empire Faction like Titus, whose wincon is "you win when all threats are eliminated" and simultaneously be scum in that same faction. It's literally impossible to have two people in the same faction with opposing wincons.

[rb]

@Tim: this is why I still want to talk about this because there's still misconceptions. People are seeing Faction as flexible: it isn't. Your faction IS your wincon.

You might share a PT with multiple people, that just means you share a PT. People in that PT may have a different wincon/faction, but by the very definition of this game: Faction = Wincon. You cannot have both scum and town in the same faction.

I'm sure this should be mod-confirmable as well.

[copper223]

Yes I do not believe what wake is arguing for is possible and I already asked Mastin about it, reply pending.

[Wake1]

Whatever the case, we really need a Scumflip.

I want to know exactly how Scum flips, because I don't trust the notion that 'you have Faction wincon = ergo you can't be Scum.'

Gut tells me Scum either has it modified so they can blend in, or have discrepancies in their role PMs so that it looks and feels like they're part of the faction, and even have Faction PT access.