Gistou (Over!)

[Luna Fox]

That wasnt accompanied by a vote ^_^;;
Are you mocking me?

[RAM]

For the record (since I don't think I've actually said anything about this) SS' whole one more night thing is absolute shit.

Like, it's fucking terrible, because it means very little.

Here's what's happens if you're town.

1) you recruit someone. We lynch you. You flip town. We know they're town.
2) you fail to recruit someone. Your lynch does the exact same thing it does today.
3) scum KNOW you have to recruit someone tonight, so they just fucking redirect you (because remembwr, in the world where you're town, THERE IS A SCUM REDIRECTOR AROUND), and you end up in 2. Basically, always.

If you're scum, this is what happens:

1) you lie. You tell us you attempted to recruit someone and failed, spew some wifom, get flipped, and it all means nothing. Maybe you did recruit someome, maybe you didn't but it sure as fuck isn't going to help out town.

BUT.

As terrible as it is. It isn't scummy. It's stupid flaily and poorly thought out, because it doesn't take into account the requirement that a redirector exists, but not scummy. Survivalistic, yes. Not scummy.

So yeah, nobody should really consider that an actual reason to keep him alive another day.

However, Toogeloo, it's still fucking stupid of you to knee-jerk vote him for making an obvious statement, he shouldn't have to explain to you how KNOWING someone has a town win con is helpful to town...the fact that there's basically no chance of that actually happening is irrelevant, his point still holds true.

-Cerb

[rb]

If we let SS live today then Day 3 is literally just a rerun of today. Thaf thought is unbearable.

[Toogeloo]

I'm sorry, I want an explanation how changing your wincon is something anyone would want. It wasn't going to take much for me to vote SS in the first place, especially since they were my original vote of the day, but if they wanted to dodge the question and be snarky as well, then they don't deserve any further response from me as well.

Maybe I'm old school, but a change in wincon signifies to me that a person just culted, and it's certainly convenient that the only person who might corroborate this role claim died on day 1. All the same, I don't trust, nor do I want a change in my faction, nor would I understand why anyone would for that matter.

[No Retreat]

If we let SS live today then Day 3 is literally just a rerun of today. Thaf thought is unbearable.

So you just want him lynched and call it a day? If he flips town what will you want then?

Toog that whole changing wincon=culted is p dumb. I mean MAAAAAYYYBEEE he's the CR and recruited Dram pregame and wants one more night so his cult will live on but we know other factions have recruits so...I'm not sure where your mind is.

[mastin2]

trivia

"I've always fought monsters, even before becoming a hunter. It's just instead of being larger than life, they were smaller than can be seen."

--Hans Pohl.

Thirty-third Votecount

:

(Sixth Votecount D2)

Salt Squad - 8 (davesaz, Cephrir, Bacde, Almost50, Luna Fox, Expedience, copper223, Toogeloo)

Bacde - 5 (Salt Squad, A Song of Ice and Fire, Wayward Thinker, DrippingGoofball, No Retreat)

Lady Lambdadelta - 2 (Wake88, RAM)
Wayward Thinker - 1 (Tim)
RAM - 1 (Stormblade)
Almost50 - 1 (Lady Lambdadelta)
Cephrir - 1 (Nosferatu)

Not Voting - 5 (Heartless, TheWayItEnds, RachMarie, Mathblade, rb)

With

24

alive, it takes

13

to lynch.

Day 2's deadline is Wednesday, August 10th, @ 9:00 PM PST: (expired on 2016-08-10 21:00:00).
At deadline,

Salt Squad

would be lynched.

Extras

Spoiler: Changes from Last Votecount

(-5)

Lady Lambdadelta - 2 (Wake88,

Almost50

,

Wayward Thinker

,

Toogeloo

,

DrippingGoofball

,

copper223

, RAM)

(-4/+6)

Salt Squad - 8 (davesaz, Cephrir,

Klingoncelt

Bacde,

Luna Fox

,

Expedience

,

Stormblade

,

Almost50, Luna Fox, Expedience, copper223,

rb

,

Toogeloo

)

(-2/+1)

Wayward Thinker - 1 (Tim,

rb

,

rb

)

(+4/-1)

Klingoncelt

Bacde - 5 (Salt Squad, A Song of Ice and Fire,

Wayward Thinker, DrippingGoofball,

rb

,

No Retreat

)

(=0)

Almost50 - 1 (Lady Lambdadelta)

(-1)

Wake88 - 0 (

No Retreat

)

(=0)

Cephrir - 1 (Nosferatu)

(-1)

Expedience - 0 (

Mathblade

)

(+2/-1)

RAM - 1 (Stormblade,

Expedience

)

(+3/-1)

Not Voting - 5 (Heartless, TheWayItEnds, RachMarie,

Mathblade,

Luna Fox

,

rb

)

Last votecount was post 5225, page 210.

Spoiler: Player Votecount History Day 2

• Heartless:
  
  
• Klingoncelt/Bacde:
  Salt Squad===>Toogeloo===>Salt Squad |
  
• Salt Squad:
  Wayward Thinker===>Stormblade===>Wayward Thinker===>Stormblade===>Klingoncelt
  
• Almost50:
  Salt Squad===>Lady Lambdadelta===>Salt Squad
  
• Nosferatu:
  Cephrir
  
• Mathblade:
  Expedience==>Unvote
  
• Wayward Thinker:
  Salt Squad===>Lady Lambdadelta===>Klingoncelt
  
• Stormblade:
  Lady Lambdadelta==>Unvote===>Lady Lambdadelta===>Salt Squad===>RAM
  
• davesaz:
  Salt Squad
  
• copper223:
  Lady Lambdadelta===>Salt Squad
  
• Wake88:
  Lady Lambdadelta
  
• Tim:
  Wayward Thinker
  
• No Retreat:
  Wake88===>Klingoncelt
  
• A Song of Ice and Fire:
  Stormblade===>Salt Squad==>Unvote===>Salt Squad===>Stormblade===>Klingoncelt
  
• RAM:
  Lady Lambdadelta
  
• Lady Lambdadelta:
  Stormblade-->Unvote--->Almost50
  
• rb:
  Salt Squad===>Wayward Thinker===>Lady Lambdadelta==>Unvote===>Wayward Thinker===>Stormblade==>Unvote===>Wayward Thinker===>Klingoncelt===>Wayward Thinker===>Salt Squad==>>Unvote
  
• Cephrir:
  Salt Squad
  
• Luna Fox:
  Salt Squad--->Lady Lambdadelta-->Unvote--->Salt Squad--->Unvote--->Lady Lambdadelta--->Salt Squad--->rb--->Salt Squad-->Unvote--->Klingoncelt-->Unvote--->copper223-->Unvote--->Salt Squad-->Unvote--->Salt Squad
  
• Expedience:
  RAM===>Lady Lambdadelta===>>>RAM===>Lady Lambdadelta===>Salt Squad===>RAM===>Salt Squad
  
• TheWayItEnds:
  
  
• DrippingGoofball:
  Lady Lambdadelta===>Klingoncelt
  
• Toogeloo:
  Salt Squad--->>Lady Lambdadelta--->>Salt Squad
  
• RachMarie:

Spoiler: Players Voted D2 History

1. Salt Squad:
   23 - Luna Fox, Almost50, A Song of Ice and Fire, rb, davesaz, Luna Fox, Toogeloo, Wayward Thinker, Cephrir, Luna Fox, A Song of Ice and Fire, Luna Fox, Klingoncelt, Klingoncelt, Luna Fox, Expedience, Stormblade, Almost50, Luna Fox, Expedience, copper223, rb, Toogeloo
   
2. Lady Lambdadelta:
   14 - Stormblade, Luna Fox, Expedience, Wake88, Almost50, Stormblade, Wayward Thinker, Toogeloo, DrippingGoofball, rb, copper223, RAM, Luna Fox, Expedience
   
3. Wayward Thinker:
   7 - Salt Squad, Tim, rb, rb, Salt Squad, rb, rb
   
4. Klingoncelt/Bacde:
   7 - Luna Fox, Salt Squad, A Song of Ice and Fire, Wayward Thinker, DrippingGoofball, rb, No Retreat
   
5. Stormblade:
   6 - A Song of Ice and Fire, Salt Squad, Lady Lambdadelta, Salt Squad, rb, A Song of Ice and Fire
   
6. RAM:
   4 - Expedience, Expedience, Stormblade, Expedience
   
7. Almost50:
   1 - Lady Lambdadelta
   
8. Wake88:
   1 - No Retreat
   
9. Cephrir:
   1 - Nosferatu
   
10. rb:
    1 - Luna Fox
    
11. copper223:
    1 - Luna Fox
    
12. Toogeloo:
    1 - Klingoncelt
    
13. Expedience:
    1 - Mathblade

Spoiler: Voting Chronology Day 2

On Wed, Jul 07/20/16 @ 08:02p,

Salt Squad

Votes

Wayward Thinker

in post 3911.
On Wed, Jul 07/20/16 @ 08:23p,

A Song of Ice and Fire

Votes

Stormblade

in post 3925.
On Wed, Jul 07/20/16 @ 08:02p,

Salt Squad

Votes

Stormblade

in post 3927.
On Wed, Jul 07/20/16 @ 08:24p,

Expedience

Votes

RAM

in post 3929.
On Wed, Jul 07/20/16 @ 08:50p,

Tim

Votes

Wayward Thinker

in post 3959.
On Wed, Jul 07/20/16 @ 09:10p,

Luna Fox

votes

Salt Squad

in post 3996.
On Wed, Jul 07/20/16 @ 09:17p,

Stormblade

Votes

Lady Lambdadelta

in post 4012.
On Wed, Jul 07/20/16 @ 09:19p,

Luna Fox

votes

Lady Lambdadelta

in post 4016.
On Wed, Jul 07/20/16 @ 09:20p,

Lady Lambdadelta

Votes

Stormblade

in post 4019.
On Wed, Jul 07/20/16 @ 09:22p,

Expedience

Votes

Lady Lambdadelta

in post 4023.
On Wed, Jul 07/20/16 @ 09:30p,

Stormblade

Unvotes

(

Lady Lambdadelta

)

in post 4054.
On Wed, Jul 07/20/16 @ 09:30p,

Luna Fox

unvotes

(

Lady Lambdadelta

)

in post 4055.
On Wed, Jul 07/20/16 @ 09:30p,

Wake88

Votes

Lady Lambdadelta

in post 4056.
On Wed, Jul 07/20/16 @ 09:39p,

Lady Lambdadelta

unvotes

Stormblade

in post 4088.
On Wed, Jul 07/20/16 @ 09:39p,

Almost50

Votes

Salt Squad

in post 4090.
On Wed, Jul 07/20/16 @ 09:40p,

A Song of Ice and Fire

Votes

Salt Squad

in post 4092.
On Wed, Jul 07/20/16 @ 09:55p,

rb

Votes

Salt Squad

in post 4132.
On Wed, Jul 07/20/16 @ 10:02p,

davesaz

Votes

Salt Squad

in post 4153.
On Wed, Jul 07/20/16 @ 10:03p,

Luna Fox

votes

Salt Squad

in post 4154.
On Wed, Jul 07/20/16 @ 10:29p,

Almost50

Votes

Lady Lambdadelta

in post 4216.
On Wed, Jul 07/20/16 @ 10:32p,

Luna Fox

unvotes

(

Salt Squad

)

in post 4225.
On Wed, Jul 07/20/16 @ 11:11p,

Stormblade

Votes

Lady Lambdadelta

in post 4303.
On Wed, Jul 07/20/16 @ 11:16p,

A Song of Ice and Fire

Unvotes

(

Salt Squad

)

in post 4311.
On Wed, Jul 07/20/16 @ 11:57p,

Toogeloo

votes

Salt Squad

in post 4325.
On Thu, Jul 07/21/16 @ 01:52a,

Lady Lambdadelta

votes

Almost50

in post 4339.
On Thu, Jul 07/21/16 @ 03:18a,

Wayward Thinker

Votes

Salt Squad

in post 4343.
On Thu, Jul 07/21/16 @ 03:35a,

No Retreat

votes

Wake88

in post 4347.
On Thu, Jul 07/21/16 @ 03:46a,

Wayward Thinker

Votes

Lady Lambdadelta

in post 4352.
On Thu, Jul 07/21/16 @ 04:06a,

rb

Votes

Wayward Thinker

in post 4356.
On Thu, Jul 07/21/16 @ 04:32a,

Toogeloo

unvotes

(

Salt Squad

)

, and votes

Lady Lambdadelta

in post 4359.
On Thu, Jul 07/21/16 @ 05:18a,

DrippingGoofball

Votes

Lady Lambdadelta

in post 4366.
On Thu, Jul 07/21/16 @ 05:25a,

rb

Votes

Lady Lambdadelta

in post 4370.
On Thu, Jul 07/21/16 @ 05:34a,

copper223

Votes

Lady Lambdadelta

in post 4372.
On Thu, Jul 07/21/16 @ 05:46a,

rb

Unvotes

Lady Lambdadelta

in post 4377.
On Thu, Jul 07/21/16 @ 06:40a,

RAM

Votes

Lady Lambdadelta

in post 4398.
On Thu, Jul 07/21/16 @ 07:10a,

Luna Fox

votes

Lady Lambdadelta

in post 4426.
On Thu, Jul 07/21/16 @ 08:08a,

Nosferatu

Votes

Cephrir

in post 4463.
On Thu, Jul 07/21/16 @ 08:32a,

Cephrir

Votes

Salt Squad

in post 4486.
On Thu, Jul 07/21/16 @ 08:33a,

Luna Fox

votes

Salt Squad

in post 4488.
On Thu, Jul 07/21/16 @ 08:55a,

rb

Votes

Wayward Thinker

in post 4540.
On Thu, Jul 07/21/16 @ 09:15a,

Salt Squad

Votes

Wayward Thinker

in post 4582.
On Thu, Jul 07/21/16 @ 09:27a,

Salt Squad

Votes

Stormblade

in post 4602.
On Thu, Jul 07/21/16 @ 09:34a,

A Song of Ice and Fire

Votes

Salt Squad

in post 4618.
On Thu, Jul 07/21/16 @ 09:38a,

rb

Votes

Stormblade

in post 4627.
On Thu, Jul 07/21/16 @ 09:42a,

Luna Fox

votes

rb

in post 4632.
On Thu, Jul 07/21/16 @ 09:43a,

A Song of Ice and Fire

Votes

Stormblade

in post 4633.
On Thu, Jul 07/21/16 @ 09:58a,

rb

Unvotes

Stormblade

in post 4669.
On Thu, Jul 07/21/16 @ 10:03a,

Luna Fox

votes

Salt Squad

in post 4677.
On Thu, Jul 07/21/16 @ 10:14a,

rb

Votes

Wayward Thinker

in post 4696.
On Thu, Jul 07/21/16 @ 10:32a,

Luna Fox

unvotes

(

Salt Squad

)

in post 4710.
On Thu, Jul 07/21/16 @ 10:34a,

Luna Fox

votes

Klingoncelt

in post 4715.
On Thu, Jul 07/21/16 @ 10:45a,

Salt Squad

Votes

Klingoncelt

in post 4725.
On Thu, Jul 07/21/16 @ 10:57a,

Luna Fox

unvotes

(

Klingoncelt

)

in post 4740.
On Thu, Jul 07/21/16 @ 11:07a,

Luna Fox

votes

copper223

in post 4749.
On Thu, Jul 07/21/16 @ 01:52p,

Expedience

Unvotes

Lady Lambdadelta

, and Votes

RAM

in post 4792.
On Thu, Jul 07/21/16 @ 03:27p,

Expedience

Votes

Lady Lambdadelta

in post 4806.
On Thu, Jul 07/21/16 @ 08:24p,

Klingoncelt

Votes

Salt Squad

in post 4834.
On Thu, Jul 07/21/16 @ 08:49p,

Klingoncelt

Votes

Toogeloo

in post 4841.
On Thu, Jul 07/21/16 @ 08:51p,

A Song of Ice and Fire

Votes

Klingoncelt

in post 4843.
On Thu, Jul 07/21/16 @ 09:50p,

Mathblade

Votes

Expedience

in post 4863.
On Thu, Jul 07/21/16 @ 09:55p,

Klingoncelt

Votes

Salt Squad

in post 4868.
On Fri, Jul 07/22/16 @ 07:22a,

Luna Fox

unvotes

(

copper223

)

in post 5091.
On Fri, Jul 07/22/16 @ 08:20a,

Luna Fox

votes

Salt Squad

in post 5142.
On Fri, Jul 07/22/16 @ 05:17p,

Expedience

Votes

Salt Squad

in post 5214.
On Fri, Jul 07/22/16 @ 05:20p,

Stormblade

Votes

Salt Squad

in post 5216.
On Fri, Jul 07/22/16 @ 05:47p,

Mathblade

Unvotes

(

Expedience

)

in post 5230.
On Fri, Jul 07/22/16 @ 07:23p,

Luna Fox

unvotes

(

Salt Squad

)

in post 5277.
On Fri, Jul 07/22/16 @ 07:45p,

Wayward Thinker

Votes

Klingoncelt

in post 5313.
On Fri, Jul 07/22/16 @ 08:12p,

DrippingGoofball

Votes

Klingoncelt

in post 5322.
On Fri, Jul 07/22/16 @ 08:30p,

rb

Votes

Klingoncelt

in post 5328.
On Fri, Jul 07/22/16 @ 08:44p,

Stormblade

Votes

RAM

in post 5343.
On Fri, Jul 07/22/16 @ 08:48p,

Expedience

Votes

RAM

in post 5348.
On Fri, Jul 07/22/16 @ 08:58p,

rb

Votes

Wayward Thinker

in post 5361.
On Fri, Jul 07/22/16 @ 09:02p,

Almost50

Votes

Salt Squad

in post 5367.
On Fri, Jul 07/22/16 @ 10:56p,

Luna Fox

votes

Salt Squad

in post 5401.
On Fri, Jul 07/22/16 @ 11:01p,

Expedience

Votes

Salt Squad

in post 5404.
On Sat, Jul 07/23/16 @ 00:15a,

copper223

Votes

Salt Squad

in post 5422.
On Sat, Jul 07/23/16 @ 10:24a,

rb

Votes

Salt Squad

in post 5435.
On Sat, Jul 07/23/16 @ 11:08a,

rb

Unvotes

Salt Squad

in post 5436.
On Sat, Jul 07/23/16 @ 12:08p,

No Retreat

votes

Klingoncelt

in post 5446.
On Sat, Jul 07/23/16 @ 06:24p,

Toogeloo

unvotes

(

Lady Lambdadelta

)

, and votes

Salt Squad

in post 5522.

This post has, for convenience, had a votecount edited in one day later. The following is the contents of this post originally.

Terribly sorry that I haven't been around all day. My family divided our celebration of my birthday into two parts: the more party type yesterday, and on my actual birthday today, a 9.4-mile hike (which took all day) up a mountain, and a supper at Denny's to boot. And, I do have work tomorrow, so I don't think I can even get a VC up tonight. (I may edit one into this post later, as much as I hate relying on that, dependent on page count.) But what I CAN do is this.

<<< Effective upon his posting, Bacde replaces Klingoncelt. >>>

[Cephrir]

@Stormblade: I can confirm that my win condition is word for word identical to dram's but for some stupid reason I can't get confirmation that he counts towards my win condition's "survive" aspect which frankly pisses me off a lot.

[Cephrir]

I'm sorry, I want an explanation how changing your wincon is something anyone would want. It wasn't going to take much for me to vote SS in the first place, especially since they were my original vote of the day, but if they wanted to dodge the question and be snarky as well, then they don't deserve any further response from me as well.

Maybe I'm old school, but a change in wincon signifies to me that a person just culted, and it's certainly convenient that the only person who might corroborate this role claim died on day 1. All the same, I don't trust, nor do I want a change in my faction, nor would I understand why anyone would for that matter.

It is not really about what the target, who we don't even know who that would be, is.

But by all means I welcome your vote even if it's for awful reasons.

[Luna Fox]

@Stormblade: I can confirm that my win condition is word for word identical to dram's but for some stupid reason I can't get confirmation that he counts towards my win condition's "survive" aspect which frankly pisses me off a lot.

Welcome to the world of figuring stuff out.
Tho i'd think yes anyway.
Which means that you'd also be part of the surviving aspect for us.

[Cephrir]

i guess ill assume that but i'm kinda thinking about replacing out on the grounds that this isn't mafia if i don't know what my fucking objective is.

[Luna Fox]

i guess ill assume that but i'm kinda thinking about replacing out on the grounds that this isn't mafia if i don't know what my fucking objective is.

I've been there.

[MathBlade]

i guess ill assume that but i'm kinda thinking about replacing out on the grounds that this isn't mafia if i don't know what my fucking objective is.

I tried to explain it how I see it. Do you agree or disagree with my explanation?

[Luna Fox]

Tho i guess you do have a point in that.
This game is really confusing in that sense.
But mastin put a lot of work into this, and im at least enjoying figuring everything out.

[Salt Squad]

I

was

enjoying this game until Luna claimed a fake guilty on me.

[Luna Fox]

Hey Mathblade, i got confirmation that i'd get "Individual Vampires Faction" result on Kuroi.
So Isolationist doesnt mean Individual.

[Salt Squad]

Anyway more Klingon votes while I am here.
Klingon claimed watcher and didn't watch the claimed cop gg@20

[Salt Squad]

Can we just vote the obvious scum Klingon please.

[Luna Fox]

It's Bacde now

[Luna Fox]

Well i guess it'll be as soon as he posts.

[MathBlade]

For the record (since I don't think I've actually said anything about this) SS' whole one more night thing is absolute shit.

Like, it's fucking terrible, because it means very little.

Here's what's happens if you're town.

1) you recruit someone. We lynch you. You flip town. We know they're town.
2) you fail to recruit someone. Your lynch does the exact same thing it does today.
3) scum KNOW you have to recruit someone tonight, so they just fucking redirect you (because remembwr, in the world where you're town, THERE IS A SCUM REDIRECTOR AROUND), and you end up in 2. Basically, always.

If you're scum, this is what happens:

1) you lie. You tell us you attempted to recruit someone and failed, spew some wifom, get flipped, and it all means nothing. Maybe you did recruit someome, maybe you didn't but it sure as fuck isn't going to help out town.

BUT.

As terrible as it is. It isn't scummy. It's stupid flaily and poorly thought out, because it doesn't take into account the requirement that a redirector exists, but not scummy. Survivalistic, yes. Not scummy.

So yeah, nobody should really consider that an actual reason to keep him alive another day.

However, Toogeloo, it's still fucking stupid of you to knee-jerk vote him for making an obvious statement, he shouldn't have to explain to you how KNOWING someone has a town win con is helpful to town...the fact that there's basically no chance of that actually happening is irrelevant, his point still holds true.

-Cerb

1) Survivalism is scummy. It is a matter of whether or not it comes from scum. Town players sometimes do scummy things.

2) Why are you not considering the possibility of Luna scum? I don't think this is a likely case but logically it is a possibility. Pretty much Luna's actions don't make sense to me as either broad town or broad scum.

Pedit X a billion: Jesus people catching up let me read and post.

[mastin2]

<<< I have expressed multiple times that I will attempt to clarify things if asked. If the clarification doesn't help, ask again and I will try to clarify even further. But I feel like I need to make an announcement on this subject all the same:
As a starting point...fuck special mechanics and treat this game like any normal mafia game. What conclusions, off of your and flipped, roles would you then make? Add in the mechanics post only

after

having done this. Not before. It will help like 90% of the questions I get asked. This is still a MAFIA game. It, therefore, follows basic mafia principles present in any mafia game. (I am not reinventing the wheel, here.) The remainder are, of course, why I continue to clarify as much as I can. >>>

[MathBlade]

Hey Mathblade, i got confirmation that i'd get "Individual Vampires Faction" result on Kuroi.
So Isolationist doesnt mean Individual.

@Stormblade: I can confirm that my win condition is word for word identical to dram's but for some stupid reason I can't get confirmation that he counts towards my win condition's "survive" aspect which frankly pisses me off a lot.

/me facepalms

Pants....not you too

[Luna Fox]

I

was

enjoying this game until Luna claimed a fake guilty on me.

you're making it as if im inventing a result on you.
It's not a fake guilty but a framed one if a redirector's involved.
A fake guilty is if i actually have no actual guilty and im making it up.

[Wake1]

<<< I have expressed multiple times that I will attempt to clarify things if asked. If the clarification doesn't help, ask again and I will try to clarify even further. But I feel like I need to make an announcement on this subject all the same:
As a starting point...fuck special mechanics and treat this game like any normal mafia game. What conclusions, off of your and flipped, roles would you then make? Add in the mechanics post only

after

having done this. Not before. It will help like 90% of the questions I get asked. This is still a MAFIA game. It, therefore, follows basic mafia principles present in any mafia game. (I am not reinventing the wheel, here.) The remainder are, of course, why I continue to clarify as much as I can. >>>

Could you please confirm that the four flips we've had so far aren't Scum?

[Luna Fox]

*headdesks*