Gistou (Over!)

[rb]

I feel like either the Eastern/Northern factions are potential scum.

[rb]

I have pretty much nothing other than a gut feeling that Mastin didn't put in 4 human tribes and make every single one Town. Just a thought.

[rb]

Oh shit, yeah. From my Role PM it says I wasn't from Northern Tribes or West Empire, but then I vowed to fight for Humanity regardless (Individual Humans).

I think Eastern Kingdom = CULTkingdom or SCUMkingdom

[rb]

Yeah fuck it, this isn't really helping find scum I guess but you're part of what I want dead Luna. BUT I don't think it's needed to waste a lynch on it and I know that might change since you're not looking like either cult or scum at this juncture...just some weird third-party who won't necessarily help or hinder Town.

Scum potentially in:
Copper
Heartless (not same scumteam as copper though)
LLD
Wayward Thinker

Dunno who else I'd throw in there, this has been really confusing and I probably need to re-read. All I know is I really don't know what to think of Eastern Kingdom yet because we have no info, so those are my scumreads based on actual content, flavour excluded.

[rb]

I mean someone must know what this means accoridong to their role pm , eaither the flavor part or the actual role

if its in hands of town we must get a discription of it soon in game. if not it seems its the name of a scum hidden mechinic trigger or simply referring to end game when a new humanity rules (eaither town or mafia (?))

or it simply refers to when all the humans are dead and no humans (vampires , lycans , undead , ...) are reffered to "new human"

is there any human with that wincon ? cuase I feel its something for not humans who must servive till some thing

I'm betting on it being the blue. I said before it looks like shared-survivor-thing and that they've misinterpreted it as being Town when it's actually not-town.

[rb]

I'll just let Cephrir catch up before I answer I guess.

[rb]

I see.

So two race cops both happened to race-check two players who both happened to be part of the most suspicious races, who both happened to actually be Individual Faction alignments and not actually scum alignments.

Seems legit.

[rb]

[rb]

Oh okay we're playing the, "I don't have a fake-claim" game again. I like this game.

[rb]

Apparently on D1 my win con i claimed was towny.
Now on D2 people believe the win con i claimed is scummy.

Something doesnt add up here indeed, and it's not me, it's you.

Did you happen to get culled overnight?

Because I had no idea about the wording of your WinCon.

The way it's worded isn't the same as Titus/BBMolla at all. Which are the two factions I'm going to say I'm 100% sure are Town. Your WinCon and the [REDACTED] part mean that I have no reason to think that your interest = my interests. You might not be cult or scum necessarily, but you're not the Town I thought was Town. There's nothing that doesn't add up, it legit just looks like you and your buddies in your PT fucked up because you thought you were Town when you actually weren't.

[rb]

he claimed individual what are you talking about?

Yeah everybody is individual these days, it's the newest cool thing to be.

You mean you didn't get the memo? Individual is like the Vanilla Town of this game. Scum are going to claim individual. Cult are going to claim Individual. Individual are going to claim individual. 3rd party are going to claim individual. Everyone's 3individual6me now because it's the conftown faction.

p-edit: Luna yeah I read it as a humanity-thing as well because I hadn't seen the wording and I didn't realise that it wasn't to do with Individual Humans. Also because it was Day 1 and there's no other information whereby I could possibly infer that you're not-town when I've seen none of the other WinCons in a game that I figured had ~5 factions (looks more like 7+ now).

[rb]

My vote is on LLD already I'm pretty sure, so don't worry.

I want Wayward/LLD to die.

[rb]

I can't follow how you can say wait a day to confirm when if there's scum InDaHood nothing can be relied upon though SS?

[rb]

All I'm going to say is that I find it almost unfuckingbelievable that this could happen:

- 2 faction cops check 2 independent people
- both faction cops return highly suspicious races (nosferatu/wulden)
- both players then claim Individual town-aligned

And that in all four of these players, there's NOT A SINGLE scum/cult.

I mean it's POSSIBLE but holy shit is that unlikely.

[rb]

- 2 faction cops check 2 independent people
- both faction cops return highly suspicious races (nosferatu/wulden)
- both players then claim Individual town-aligned

Uh i think you're confusing race and faction.

Oh yeah, race cop.

Doesn't change my intended meaning, as those 2 races are supposed to be the suspected scum/cult races, no?

Unless they AREN'T which makes no sense at all from the flavour. I swear to god if Mastin has made this game have a single scum faction and it's human then that's just pure troll and hilarious.

[rb]

Flavour/role bullshit aside, I want to lynch Wayward.

Let's assume Kuroi is Town, how fucking convenient that Kuroi was counter-wagoned and WT kept getting these, 'townreads' on Day 1.

Also Salt Squad is making sense to me, I don't wanna lynch them.

[rb]

Flavour/role bullshit aside, I want to lynch Wayward.

Let's assume Kuroi is Town, how fucking convenient that Kuroi was counter-wagoned and WT kept getting these, 'townreads' on Day 1.

Also Salt Squad is making sense to me, I don't wanna lynch them.

Also Dram's death strongly seems like a 100% scum kill and who was he pushing?

That's right! WT

VOTE: Wayward Thinker

[rb]

Also, fuck you if you turn out to be scum Tim!

[rb]

All I really care about is the chances of Salt Squad's result being bullshit and tbh it looks like it's bullshit.

[rb]

I'd rather just not lynch SS (someone I'm townreading) on the basis of a claim that's likely bullshit. That's dumb.

Cephrir/LLD claims have more scum/cult likelihood than those. Unless I've just missed something entirely, I think Salt is town and I want them to be a part of the superhappyfuntimes.

[rb]

I'd rather just not lynch SS (someone I'm townreading) on the basis of a claim that's likely bullshit. That's dumb.

Cephrir/LLD claims have more scum/cult likelihood than those. Unless I've just missed something entirely, I think Salt is town and I want them to be a part of the superhappyfuntimes.

Yes, fuck the clear contradiction, let's lynch something else for shits and giggs.

Do all you have some kind of vendetta against me or something? Luna's result was obviously messed with.

Does anyone else not read this awful ATE and not want to run off to find a vessel in which to puke

It's pretty much confirmed by Luna herself that she was known to the scum as a Faction cop. She's like the absolute perfect target to be redirected, if it exists in the game.

How is lynching WT for shits and giggs? Oh, right: you were one of the people pushing Kuroi's wagon over WT and you also happen to be Nosferatu - the enemy of a number of human factions in this game.

But sure I guess you're just an Individual Nosferatu who <3's humans

[rb]

ok guys I really need to do some work stuffs, I promise to really go through this stuff this weekend after I finish with the client work.

My brain is really struggling to understand this game.

ok thanks for explaining wulden wtf is a nosterferu and did Cephir actually claim that or did someone claim a result on him?

Someone got the result on him.

Ironically...it was Nosferatu...

[rb]

The only thing we have on Salt Squad being scum is a result that we know could have been tampered with. That's not just Salt's claim either, it's in Mastin's notes too.

WT is the best target we have from ACTUAL scumhunting and many things point to WT being scum so I'd rather lynch WT.

[rb]

technically, half this town can, apparently

Hey dude I'm Individual and Individual is obviously definitely 100% town, amirite?

[rb]

That's a fair point, like 90% of the things I was townreading Stormblade for was Nahdia's sick early game posts where they scumhunted in a really town-looking way and it was great. All that shit's evaporated now and I don't like Stormblade as much as before.

[rb]

My gut keeps saying Salt Squad is Town and I'm notoriously bad at mislynching people based on 'reason' instead of just listening to my gut so I'm not voting SS today.

p-edit: I see no real issue with Salt Squad's plan really. They recruit someone, they tell us who and we lynch Salt Squad. They're literally giving us a conftown and letting us kill them. On the safe side, we can lynch SS Day 3 but there's no reason to do it today. If they're scum, they're dead Day 3 regardless - we can use today to find connections and there's a chance they ARE town as I see it. So it's a dumb lynch to make today.

[rb]

The only thing we have on Salt Squad being scum is a result that we know could have been tampered with. That's not just Salt's claim either, it's in Mastin's notes too.

How lilkely do you think this could happen?:

So it sinks in to people

I targeted Salt Squad with a Faction Scan and got Isolationist
Someone in the hood had claimed Nation: A, Location: B, Race: C
I used my free action on that someone and got A, B, or C or all 3

What are the chances i got redirected again?

Mr. Percentages guy?

Like I said all I really care about is the chances that you, having claimed faction cop to scum BY YOUR OWN ADMISSION are going to have shitty/unreliable reads. Plus what I've just said above about SS being dead regardless. Nom sayin'?

[rb]

Yes I get it, you did a nation check and it seemed to work out dandy but that's also a power that everybody in the game has and if there IS a redirect mechanic we have no idea how it works. I'm happy to kill SS Day 3.

[rb]

One of the results was correct with what was claimed in my neighborhood.

If i got redirected both of my targets would be redirected.

I got a result that matches up claims in my Neighborhood.

It's not rocket science really.

Blue: we know this to be true because?

[rb]

Apart from WT I'm starting to just want to lynch all of the hood until we find the scum because I'm tired of this game revolving around this stupid hood. Fuck the hood.

[rb]

How many people are in this hood again?

Can we vig/lynch all of them in one cycle? That'd be sweet.

[rb]

Stormblade's "mason buddy" shit looks scummy af with all this new info to me. I seriously am doubting she thought Nahdia thought she was a Mason in a Masonry with a bunch of confirmed town.

[rb]

VOTE: Salt Squad

I beleive luna's guilty

@rb is kuroi town? if SS is telling the truth they will flip exactly like kuroi so how ill that exactly make the recriuted person conftown?

~Ice

Kuroi was Town, yes. He's definitely not scum.

He might not be the Town that we're looking for but he was a version of 'Town'.

Hence why you should vote WT <3

[rb]

The only way Storm's scum is if LLD is scum with them and that isnt actually their role.

There's a good number of people here who think LLD might be scum. I'm inclined to disagree but it's not like I can't just be wrong. I'm finding Stormblade scummy, in conjunction with a good number of people finding LLD scummy so it's not implausible that Storm + LLD are both scum.

[rb]

VOTE: Stormblade

[rb]

Oh also this Neighbourhood shit is just getting unbearable and if you guys are right we'll kill a scum if we just keep lynching the Neighbourhood anyway. Then we lynch WT. Or a Vig kills him. Or something.

Plus Luna, if you're not scum as I seem to think then there's a good chance we find scum pretty soon by lynching through the hood.

p-edit: No shit dude, I'm aligned with the Titus/BBMolla factions. Your WinCon is by definition some weird as fuck survivory thing that doesn't seem to rely on either scum or town and right now I have this really big feeling that because you've got a scum InDaHood your faction's being manipulated to fuck with the Town. So I want the hood razed, mothers, babies and all until we find the scum.

[rb]

My WinCon says nothing about the humanity treaty, there's a bunch of redacted shit in Dram's death thing that may or may not indicate that the treaty doesn't help my WinCon so fuk yo treaty.

I think Stormblade knew they weren't in a Masonry, the rest of you didn't and you fucked up.

[rb]

Like you want to lynch all of us until you hit scum. And then what, let an opposing faction NK the remnants? i find this BS.

Because the treaty has no bearing or mention in my flavour nor in my WinCon. I could care less if the scum kill you off after we lynch the scum in your hood.

[rb]

I'm playing against your wincon now because to your own point: your hood has scum. I have a pretty damn strong townread on you, and a pretty damn strong scumread on Stormblade.

So I'm not only lynching a strong scumread, I have confirmation that there's a spy in your hood that needs lynching. Also, your hood is small and with my confidence that you're Town I'm pretty sure we can kill the scum pretty quickly without needing to kill any more of the hood since the rest of you are not-scum. No? Yes?

I don't give a fuck about your hood once the scum is dead and I won't waste any more lynches on it because like I said, it doesn't seem to serve either Town or Scum. I just want to kill the scum and move on from this heartbreakingly shit point of the game where everything is revolving around some hood with a shared PT that like 80% of the game isn't privy to so we're all running in fucking circles debating the unknowns of the unknowns instead of hunting scum.

[rb]

Why does town stormblade reveal 2-shot BP that fast?

I legitimately wanna know because I want to hit the scum, not the weird neutral things.

[rb]

rb confirmed enemy of the humanity treaty.

you missed the word "new" thats the thing with negative feeling about the whole shit

we don't know what the shit is that,

if thats in my way for lynching scum then I'm an enemy of that as well

i interpret as "humanity makes a new agreement to get along with each other and stop being assholes"

the fact an undead had that in wincon seems like "lets kill all humans and make a treaty for the

New

human being factions to live with eachother or something.

you know?

I'm stuck between this and "everyone gets along"

[rb]

Ahhh I see. Shit, Stormblade's claim might have something to it regarding their WinCon/who they get along with.

@Stormblade, so you win with BBMolla's faction but not Titus?

[rb]

UNVOTE: Stormblade

Just HOW sure are you that there's a scum in your hood?

Also, it sounds more and more like it's just a shared-survivor faction

[rb]

FAK.

[rb]

UGH.

Yeah that does make a certain kind of sense but I'd hate to info-lynch right now, I'd rather lynch my actual scumreads.

[rb]

Oh yeah, copper's in your hood. I'm scumreading that fucker here, so that works.

I really want a Wayward wagon but it looks like there's not gonna be a Wayward wagon. I guess there's a lot of time until deadline. The sheer number of early LLD votes make me think she's not-scum tbh.

[rb]

@Luna: who are you scumreading outside of your Night result?

[rb]

VOTE: Wayward Thinker

I'm trying to not keep ending up back here but I keep ending up back here.

[rb]

Like at least 2 scumz maybe even more.

I'm feeling that way too, because if Cephrir is to be believed there's actually people

outside

of the hood with the same WinCon as Luna, which I think implies that this hood has a high ratio of scum.

[rb]

Tbh this hood just looks fucking terrible.

Luna: unless you think LLD/Cephrir are both scum you have to admit that your hood looks pretty scummy rn.

[rb]

I'm torn between loving and hating Mastin right now.

[rb]

Then again we're assuming a lot about how many people would share your WinCon....would it be likely that there'd be this many with your WinCon?

[rb]

I feel like an LLD/Ceph lynch is just as informative as someone else from the hood in this situation, no?

[rb]

I still just find it so unlikely that both Ceph/LLD are town but maybe they are. This is so weird.

[rb]

I get the impression that by the nature of Titus' flip as well, that the 3 human kingdoms are a threat to Vampires. They have champions that kill non-humans.

Or maybe if those champions are dead, they count as not-threats? Fuark this game.

[rb]

@Luna how strong is your townread of Ceph/LLD compared to your Hood?

How likely is it they're both or one of them is full of shit compared to your hood being superscummy?

[rb]

Well, I'm starting to be more okay with LLD lynch tbh. Gonna take a break I guess, I feel like I have some important thing right on the tip of my tongue but I can't articulate it. Maybe I'll try tomorrow.

[rb]

Oh and sry 4 tryna raze ur hood guys.

[rb]

I've come to the conclusion that Luna's faction cop result is not fucked with, Salt Squad really is 'isolationist' - but isolationist doesn't mean scum/cult.

Read about the Individual Vampires - they're outcasts. Read about Kuroi's character Hans Pohl - he's an outcast. They're all

isolated and individual

and hold no particular allegiance to anyone. The 'Individual' factions are somewhat a neutral ground that win with a few different other WinCons. Also, 'isolationism' in political terms is commonly acccepted as meaning that you keep other people's business out of yours and you try to do the best with what you can (roughly speaking).

This all sounds very consistent with the flavour for Individual Vampires/Humans and I'm starting to really think that we've simply been reading isolationist wrong. Luna's result wasn't fucked with - Salt Squad IS an isolationist - but isolationist isn't the cult/scum indicator we thought it was.

[rb]

This all fits with Mastin's flavour that your enemies are not who you think they are and Mastin has also repeated a number of times that Race =/= Faction. This LLD lynch is shit. I'm tired of listening to people telling me, "Da WuLDeN Are Da sCumMers/CulTers!"

That's not how this particular game works. Cephrir/LLD are off the lynch table. These 3:

A50
Copper
Wayward Thinker

All need to die. A50 is fucking with us with his non-human shit. I think he's most likely human and scum - and the way this anti-human agenda is being pushed I think that would be a GREAT way for scum to get themselves race-read as human and nearly everyone goes, "welp that's Town guys!" - but this game DOES. NOT. WORK. LIKE. THAT.

Copper was doing the same sketchy shit with his Heartless Nation read of 'Other' - as if 'Other' on its own predicts that Heartless is non-human and therefore scum.

Wayward holy shit, nearly everyone seems to agree that they're scummy but not one wants to lynch. Whatever. Lynch A50 or Heartless instead then, but please get the fuck off the Cephrir/LLD/Salt Squad wagons because they're DUMB.

VOTE: Wayward Thinker

[rb]

How sure are you of that?

[rb]

So you're basically 100% convinced that Salt Squad should show as 'Individual Vampire' if you checked them, Titus would show as 'West Empire', BBMolla would show as, 'Individual Human' etc. and that there's no way there could be overlap where multiple factions show as one thing because they have compatible WinCons?

[rb]

Hmm.

It does seem pretty damning but I'm still not convinced there aren't "grouped" factions whose goal is basically to identify who is or isn't with them. Something about the way Mastin explained all this stuff makes me think that way.

[rb]

Oh and I still think A50/Copper/Wayward are scum regardless of whether or not Salt Squad is scum.

[rb]

Spoiler: LONG ASS WALL

I can tell you one thing, Stormblade is not with us:
VOTE: Storm Blade

~Firebringer

--------------------------
Here we go first claim of sorts -- Expedience. No information as to why or who the "us" is. My FoS of Expedience grows and of Salt Squad. Then without any reaction they immediately vote RAM saying they are unambiguously scum though. I can't tell if Expedience is absolutely crazy or just trying to say something here. Either way I had an FoS of them before Kuroi lynch and this entrance didn't help things.
-----------------------------
Then there's some more bitching and moaning about "oh no! what do I do?" This pops up throughout the day so far. My thoughts are at least some of this fake some of this is genuine. Overall to a speciifc player it is NAI though.
--------------------------

So one of the members of my neighborhood.
Has found out that Salt Squad is part of some Isolationist faction?

What the heck is even that.

This I do not like. It doesn't seem to make sense with anything. This means one of several things to me:
1) The isolationist is a cultist or something that just wants to survive and put itself in a hovel. It doesn't sound "war" or "conversion like". Just something that wants to exist. Since all of the factions seem to be sentences and you got a phrase it is probably a summary of one of those phrases. It could be something that means Salt is town.
2) The isolationist result could be fake and that would mean that whoever made it is one of the 50% scum.
3) Luna could be lying about this and that would make them want to lynch Salt for some reason.
4) If the person isn't strong willed then I'd say they could have hit someone else.


The fact Luna has either came close to our outed nearly everyone in their hood for reasons I cannot understand at all boggles my mind. There are way too many possibilities of what that claim

could[/b] be and the fact that Luna outed it and then immediately pressuring Beeboy without talking about it is sketchy when it doesn't seem to match up. However, I had a town read on Luna and Beeboy so I'm actually leaning towards Isolationist being a word or phrase that describes Individual Vampire OR there was funny redirection going on. Since I can't really tell what the fuck is going on here, both of you get an FoS.

Luna for habitually pants dropping and Salt for begging and pleading instead of actually trying to figure out the game and then for adding the strong willed claim after. Salt however does have some of a chance of telling the truth when in 3967 without a single vote on them then says they are feeling vampiric.

Therefore on this claim I am punting for now on determining which of the two, if any, are scum without further interaction but something there stinks and I intend on finding out what.

------------------------------------------------------

Almost50 then posts something on the Titus kill. Quite frankly Titus suspected a lot of people and was "cooperative" which was usually her thing as scum. Bullheaded as town, Cooperative as scum. For her to kill to go through she'd have to be sure of the person being not-human and be sure of not redirection. There's a whole lot of assumptions made in that post but none of them are reads and there are plenty of other possibilities. Based on the fact that Mastin has established scum have fake claims this looks really bad. FoS grows Almost50.

------------------------------------------------------


Tim does mechanics stuff which seems to be par for the course instead of reading but seems as close as to what was investigative so far so NAI for that.

--------------------------------------------------------

Stormblade hopping on the LLD wagon without seemingly interacting with the Salt Squad claim makes almost no sense. It seems VERY opportunistic to say the least. It's one of the reasons that I think something funny is going on. But see the thing is I had a town read on them beforehand. It could be possible that Stormblade like the majority of everyone else seems to confuse race and wincon but it contributes to my punting on the Salt Squad bit for now. They said it doesn't 100% indicate it, yet they vote it as if it DOES and don't ask any investigative questions before doing so. They eventually unvote at entertaining the possibility, but if they knew it wasn't 100% indicative why weren't they asking questions first? Depending upon what Salt Squad flips I would look here. Especially since they believe LLD on the claim of <redacted> (so scum actually have to read the thread) and didn't insta vote them, they'd either need to be <redacted> or a potential <redacted> or they'd probably be scum.

Luna's hop onto LLD immediately with one of the weakest apologies ever is usually a scum tell as well. Isolationist doesn't make sense at all to me.

The only thing that stops me from wanting to run Luna up the damn flagpole right now is that I don't think she'd out a large (relative term) group of people that she is in a PT with as scum unless they themselves are scum. Buh bye Luna town read, which because they admittedly share the same PT, buh bye Stormblade town read. I also find it interesting that Luna pushes the Wulden are scum thing and a Wulden spy. It seems like Luna is just claiming tons of shit to avoid actually reading people. The hydra dissonance doesn't help matters much either. I want to figure out what was up with today though because almost everyone in that damn hood seems opportunistic as fuck, either that or every player in the hood is drunk or inebriated on a consistent basis somehow.

-----------------------------

4018 is tellling from Beeboy. Switches between racecop and race cop. Not sure why. If this was a slower game I'd call it AI. However I can see autocorrect or something fucking with that. So contributes to the punt section.

----------------------------

Expedience continues vote hopping sans reason to whatever is popular or whatever is around. Then immediately asks LLD to full claim with like hardly any votes. A full claim is for L-1. FoS Expedience is growing larger still.

------------


Lots more pages doing nothing reading people and just calling each other scum over and over


-----------


Almost50 gets more FoS's on them because they specifically want to know who is in the PT. Maybe he wants to know who the <REDACTED> are in that hood? I'm not sure what good asking does when you can read the fucking thread (RTFT) except to keep the conversation going about specs and not hunt and find more <REDACTED>, assuming all people in that PT have a similar <REDACTED> and I'm not misunderstanding them.

---------


Wayward thinking's logic is terrible --- Lynching for information is always bad. Furthermore if this game was "find the wulden" and assuming that scum usually take up 20-25% of the population in a standard game and that X% of people are humans then giving 100-20-X% of the players race checks and go "this is scum" is bullshit. A wulden claim DOES make me put the slot under the microscope however.

---------


Toog writes a few sentences to explain "I'm sheeping" instead of investigating. We haven't gotten that far into the game yet. /sigh

---------


Dripping Goofball also sheeps....What the fuck is this game?


--------

Copper gets a huge FoS too. They posted that stuff of mine sounds like bullshit scum would post but has had ample time and interacted with other people and refuses to do so.

If it wasn't completely bat shit stupid I'd really think that this group is all scum except for the fact that if they were scum claiming a PT is stupid AND I don't see all three people being this stupid. But there is probably at least one scum somewhere in that PT. As to whether or not it relates to the Salt Squad stuff, I want to see more interactions to find out.


-----------

RAM is okay ish. I like the fact they seem to imply thinking which is more than what most people do but I don't like that they think they need more flips to do it. There's been 11 billion (sarcastic extension) claims already. What exactly more do you need to start asking questions?

---------

Cephrir comes in and posts common sense...And then Nosferatu (the player) claims that Cephrir is Nosferatu (the race). Again this is more unprovoked claiming. This means that Nosferatu is not human and I'm assuming not Wulden or Nosferatu themselves else that post doesn't make sense. Yet since it is highly unlikely that they be human and race check that means they didn't list their own race there. A couple of people have claimed not human AND win with human. This seems self serving and completely ignores the rest of the thread.

------------


Then people just go off the deepend going back to an old vote because "information" instead of actually goddamn reading and investigating.


---------

The rb votes are just stupid. RB is like one of the few people investigating and scum hunting. Almost chain sawing. Again if Luna, Storm, and Copper were all scum together this would make sense but I can''t for the life of me see a scum team openly advocate they have a PT in the game thread.

---------

I hate Salt Squad's posts with a passion about wanting to lynch the 2 shot BP in order to "townfirm" themselves. From my view of the game that doesn't happen. And again asking about more people about who is in the damn hood...C'mon

*bangs head against wall*

The short version is I have a lot of thoughts about that PT/LLD/Salt Squad/Cephrir but that is NOT where I think the vote should go.

I think it should go on one of these people.
Expedience who just looks like they are vote hopping without even interacting. (Granted most people are just trying to use information and not scum hunting but at least they are interacting)
Wayward Thinker who advocated for an information lynch.
Klingoncelt who spends most of the time interacting with Wake instead of interacting with the thoughts so far and asks for a vote of someone who Wake (I think) has confirmed Northern faction without reasons.
Almost 50 for reasons mentioned in the wall above. Lots of weird things that don't add up.

Since the latter is what the some people are loudly saying race = faction = lynch LLD except his is more trying to prove something that mastin didn't say, I want to see more of what Wayward does now and instead want to see Expedience post something other than "vote" sheep. Random vote change. Sheep. vote change.

VOTE: Expedience

<3

But put your vote on Wayward instead.

I need to look into Klingon now, but I'm impressed that your bigass wall has the same suspicions as mine. You'd better not be scum Math.

[rb]

No I am serious Luna claimed cop in her neighborhood to scum.
That means that scum knew who she wanted to confirm so they could redirect her to someone who has the same information as the person she was checking.

Why are you telling people that there's Scum in Luna's 'Hood? Was that confirmed?

Luna herself said it lol.

[rb]

I'll wait until you catch up to my ccurrent line of thinking.

[rb]

My gut keeps saying Salt Squad is Town and I'm notoriously bad at mislynching people based on 'reason' instead of just listening to my gut so I'm not voting SS today.

p-edit: I see no real issue with Salt Squad's plan really. They recruit someone, they tell us who and we lynch Salt Squad. They're literally giving us a conftown and letting us kill them. On the safe side, we can lynch SS Day 3 but there's no reason to do it today. If they're scum, they're dead Day 3 regardless - we can use today to find connections and there's a chance they ARE town as I see it. So it's a dumb lynch to make today.

Do you not understand that SS can get a Scumbuddy, like you for example, to say "Oyeh I haz convertedz!"

There's no way SS can "confirm" anything.

SS is telling us to let them live today and we lynch them Day 3. They tell us their conversion target and then when they die they flip Town, so we know the person they converted is also Town.

[rb]

@klingoncelt: maybe you should catch up with the last 300 or so posts and then ask me questions because this is fucking retarded.

[rb]

[url=http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 2#p8146362]Lots of mathy words and RB's reply is below

<3

But put your vote on Wayward instead.

I need to look into Klingon now, but I'm impressed that your bigass wall has the same suspicions as mine. You'd better not be scum Math.

Or you know...You could actually READ IT before saying you are impressed with it. I have lots of WTF moments about this day but honestly like most of it is either confusing race and faction or just complete bullshitery because bastard game. Either way I want to see people interact more and less "OMG THIS SAYS YOU MUST BE SCUM" when they are complaining about not understanding the goddamn setup.

PEDIT: Nadha -- Or you could think for yourself instead of just "guessing" where your vote is because your other head says so. And ask people. I'm not asking for explanations. I'm asking for people to play the goddamn game. Like what do you think of the people in your hood? What about those outside of it? Give me a general feel for how you think. And why do you think there is a Wulden scum team? They could be a cult or as I hypothesized before maybe there are scum teams that are not based on race.

Dunno why you think I didn't read it. I did. I've already posted a lot of what's in the wall earlier in Day 2, some of it I haven't posted on Day 2: but Day 1 I disliked Expedience for all the same reasons and the gist of your post and the reads you ultimately came out with align with what I've been trying to do this game. I'm trying to scumhunt independently of all this race/faction bullshit and I've spit out a handful of people I think are scummy. People that in your wall, you also see as scummy independent of unreliable raceclaim shenanigan bullshit.

I'm not sure what I missed that you think I missed, but I definitely read it.

[rb]

Apart from WT I'm starting to just want to lynch all of the hood until we find the scum because I'm tired of this game revolving around this stupid hood. Fuck the hood.

Could you buddy your cult leader just a little bit harder there, pal?

Everyone might not have yet noticed how over-the-top your white knighting for Salt is.

Which is funny coz i mentioned earlier that they got culted since their non issue with my win con magically changed over being an issue, overnight.

ROFL.

I didn't even know your WinCon Day 1 - but you said you were town aligned with humans and had people in your hood verifying that thing. Being Day 1 I had no reason to think this was some elaborate scumplot because there's just no reason for scum to do that. At the very least I figured YOU were town and possibly being sheeped by scum, but I didn't really think you were scum.

Also I think I've well and truly established that the reason I didn't like your hood was because it was taking over the game and interrupting everyone's ability to actually scumhunt, while simultaneously suspecting it might be a hood with a scum majority. Not to mention Cephrir and LLD are OUTSIDE of your hood and sharing the SAME WINCON AS YOU who I'm saying I REALLY DON'T WANT TO LYNCH today. But yeah Luna, let's go with that. I'm from some faction whose win condition is about eliminating people of your win condition...and that's why I'm constantly saying I don't want to Lynch Cephrir/LLD and haven't made any attempt to get YOU lynched either - even though I'm pretty damn sure you 3 all have the same win condition - you got me!

[rb]

I think we should all ignore scum Klingon because I am likely being tracked ^_^
If I was scum and needed 1 night action I would just do what Ram said and say isolationist faction was a town faction.

....Why would we ignore scum Klingon? Why wouldn't we I dunno...LYNCH IT.

God I'm tired...I'm going to bed. SLOW DOWN YOUR FUCKING POST COUNTS AND THINK PEOPLE GOD DAMN IT!!

PEDIT:

@rb: Wow you read a wall containing at least 20 pages worth of posts in 3 minutes...Excuse me...I think my allergies to bullshit are coming up.

@nadhia: Too pissed will address in the morning. Main thought is push people. Ask questions...Something other than information. The same thing I have to everyone else.

Oh and post limits are good. Seriously I have done nothing but catch up and post since I got home from work and now I am going to bed to get up in 6 hours. Like please people. You are not in a contest for highest post count. I understand there are factions but I am assuming Mastin has common sense and not approving "you win if you have the most post ever" for the lolz.

Lol wtf. The wall isn't that big Math...

[rb]

Okay turns out the wall is about ~1600 words.

But I read ~900 WPM and type consistently at around 135 WPM, which I know sounds insane but believe me I read the post.

[rb]

There is no guarantee there is a wulden in our PT, on the other hand it is certain LLD is a Wulden, voting for one of us over LLD is insane.

Still pushing that race = faction card?

[rb]

Are you serious right now? How many times has it been said by Mastin that race =/= faction? Yet apparently people want to keep pushing on LLD just because she's Wulden and therefore practically 'confirmed cult'.

Why don't all of you who are town actually do some real fucking scumhunting?

[rb]

There is no guarantee there is a wulden in our PT, on the other hand it is certain LLD is a Wulden, voting for one of us over LLD is insane.

Still pushing that race = faction card?

Shall we vote a random or someone whose race we know is scum or cult 90% of the time with maybe possibly the weird one out that is actually town aligned? What a hard question.

How do you know Wulden is scum/cult 90% of the time?

[rb]

Also, how is Wayward a 'random' - do explain this one to me because it seems like there's a good portion of people who think he's scum, while like 1/3rd of the game just completely ignores/doesn't interact with him despite him being a massive scum suspect. Oh and then there's the Kuroi counter-wagon on Day 1, and now people deflecting from Wayward to lynch LLD on the basis of "But CleTUS, Her RAce Is WuLDen!!!!!!!!"

Mastin: Race =/= faction
Idiots: Lynch LLD! Her Race is Wulden!

ROFL @ THIS GAME

[rb]

Lol that LLD wagon makes me wanna puke.

[rb]

Because you don't put a spy in my PT from a faction that has my wincon, ergo we are almost guaranteed to be on opposite sides and despite the nonsense I have read we are town aligned, survivor wins with scum as well if they are not NKd while we need to form a majority with town to win.

Wulden and Nosferatu, the other two main non human factions, most likely also have a PT and that's where they all (or the bulk of them) are.

I also don't see any undead outside of the PT rushing to join our ranks which makes the proposition that LLD is a Wulden operating alone more unlikely.

What mastin said is that there can be different races in the same faction, you are arguing that the two are independent of each other, which based on the fact that we claimed undead are all apparently working for the same goal is absolute nonsense.

Blue: this is so painful to read. If there's a scum in your hood and the entire hood claims undead, of course the scum in your hood is going to claim to be undead and have your WinCon.

My point is that the entire game needs to move away from scumhunting based on race because it's going to be unreliable and that anyone who's voting LLD because she's Wulden and not because she's actually playing scummy needs to gtfo that wagon.

[rb]

Oh and not to mention that every faction that needs it has been given a fakeclaim, so the fact that there's a mass claim of being the same race/location/nation/wincon means literally nothing because it's something you'd expect the scum in your hood to be able to pull off.

[rb]

@Stormblade that's a fair point. He'd want to do this whether scum or town because it helps his faction's survival. But I overall am reading Salt Squad as Town and I think there's better lynches.

[rb]

I'm pretty sure that Dram's WinCon wins with cult though, unless I'm mistaken.

[rb]

It looks to me like it:

- wins with some town
- loses with other town
- wins with cult
- loses with scum

[rb]

I could be wrong here ofc, but there was an exchange between Ceph/Luna that made me feel like their apparent WinCons were anti-scum but not anti-cult.

[rb]

I mean sure, ppl can watch/protect me, and in that case im open again to scan in there instead of lynching, if that's the route we're going.

Why would anyone in their right minds waste a protect on you?

You sold out your entire neighborhood.

Dram is dead.

Your fault.

You cannot be trusted.

Now a Tracker, yes, putting a Tacker on you would be great.

BTW, since you couldn't be bothered with asking me for my results, Little Miss Team Player:

A Song of Ice and Fire -
Location is Other,
Visited by xxx with a Night Action,
Visited by Klingoncelt and also by yyy, each with a check action

ASIAOF culted/protected then? That might make some sense actually.

[rb]

I'm pretty sure that Dram's WinCon wins with cult though, unless I'm mistaken.

Err, huh? Aren't you defending LLD..?
-Nahdia

I'm trying to figure out why your apparent WinCon which is the same as Dram's is trying to kill cultists. Like I might be totally wrong but it seems to me that your supposed WinCon doesn't actually care if the cult exists or not.

[rb]

@rb
What is paid full to read is your attempt to create chaos willingly or out of ignorance, of course we may have a wulden mole, the rest of us are all the same race and share the same wincon however so are we special snowflakes? Fuck that, I have strong circumstantial evidence that race is alignment significant, you just have platitudes about scum-hunting.

What's this evidence then?

[rb]

I'm pretty sure that Dram's WinCon wins with cult though, unless I'm mistaken.

Err, huh? Aren't you defending LLD..?
-Nahdia

I'm trying to figure out why your apparent WinCon which is the same as Dram's is trying to kill cultists. Like I might be totally wrong but it seems to me that your supposed WinCon doesn't actually care if the cult exists or not.

OK you are also scum.

Lmao that was the most transparent and pathetic lead-up to an OMGUS I've ever seen.

I like how your vote doesn't switch to me even though you think I'm scum. You're so cute Copper <3

[rb]

I'm pretty sure that Dram's WinCon wins with cult though, unless I'm mistaken.

Err, huh? Aren't you defending LLD..?
-Nahdia

I'm trying to figure out why your apparent WinCon which is the same as Dram's is trying to kill cultists. Like I might be totally wrong but it seems to me that your supposed WinCon doesn't actually care if the cult exists or not.

Beeeecause they're a threat to the New Humanity Treaty? I mean, you'll just have to take my word on this one. Hell, I'M not 100% I can't win with cult. I just... really kind of doubt it?
-Nahdia

Okay fair enough. It actually makes more sense that you're not sure than you're sure.

[rb]

So RB is doing the throw the stone hide the hand classical scumtell, which means it's a waste of time trying to convince him if anything as he has a vested interest in not listening, should be clear for the town aligned why race is significant, if there are town vies. please take note.

"RB is doing this really obviously scummy thing guys, but I'm not gonna vote him."

THIS GUY

[rb]

@RB
LOL. Phadaprasing:

Nahdia I may be wrong (let me leave an out here in case you fuck me over) but I am going to nitpick on something remotely relevant like whether you can win with the cult 5th faction we know nothing about that nonetheless throws scum at you, aren't I smart.

This is transparently disingenuous so you have an agenda so it's a waste of time trying to convince you of anything.

Oh, so you know whether or not your wincon works with cult?

Hey Copper, how do you know 90% of Wulden are scum/cult again?

[rb]

The first part I already explained.

About the second, It depends on what the cult's secret wincon is, based on the fact they started the war and we are trying to end it with a treaty the answer is most likely no.

How do you know they started the war?

From Mastin's post:

"Oh, and one more thing...There is a cult faction this game. Be warned. Nothing is known about it."

No one knows anything about it, except you apparently?

[rb]

You also seem to know how many cult/scum are Wulden?

[rb]

Genau SS, you are faster than me on the phone, you can hear the glass bending on RB's silly attempts to frame me.

Who's framing who here? You're the one repeating over and over that I'm scum and deflecting questions

Whether you're scum or town this is so dumb it hurts. I'm asking how you apparently know that 90% of Wulden are scum/cult and you're responding with dumb shit that doesn't make any fucking sense whatsoever. Like, a whole bunch of people claimed to be undead and have your wincon? NO SHIT. What else do you think they were gonna claim in your hood?

"Oh hey guys, I'm not unded and I have a different wincon! XD!!"

Your reasoning makes like, zero fucking sense whatsoever.

[rb]

Everyone in your Hood is gonna claim undead. If there's scum/cult in your hood, they're mod-confirmed to have been given a fake-claim if needed.

There's literally ZERO reason for anyone to automatically think that their hood = aligned with them just because they say they are.

[rb]

BTW, since you couldn't be bothered with asking me for my results, Little Miss Team Player:

A Song of Ice and Fire -
Location is Other,
Visited by xxx with a Night Action,
Visited by Klingoncelt and also by yyy, each with a check action

ASIAOF culted/protected then? That might make some sense actually.

No, silly, I checked ASOIAF. These are the results. I'll be posting my results here instead of in the Hood, that place is no longer home.

I'm asking whether you think ASOIAF being visited is possibly them being culted or protected.

[rb]

Copper + Klingon neighourhood scumteam?

[rb]

WAIT I TAKE IT BACK LOOK AT ME TRYING TO FRAME COPPER I MUST BE SCUMMMM

:^)

[rb]

Copper + Klingon neighourhood scumteam?

Maybe
I'd find it funny coz last time we were both in a neighborhood that neighborhood also had 2 scum in it.

Copper + Klingon neighbourhood scumteam confirmed.

[rb]

@RB
The accusation is clear, I think you are scum aligned cause:

- You have been fence sitting on your accusations/probes giving yourself an out in case it went wrong and pushing the wrong things.

- you are trying to disrupt every attempt to start solving the setup based on the information we have by claiming it's impossible to do (using faulty logic) and by accusing the players trying to of slipping (I have never seen such a slip in a real game from a non newbie, the rest of us understand you can post your thoughts in the scum PT about that if you want to, so that's likely another attempt to shut that line of research down cause you likely have something to lose if we figure it out).

Find where I'm fence sitting. I've given out multiple of my scumreads and townreads and clearly stated exactly who I do and don't want to lynch. That's fence-sitting in your book? This is just pathetic.

Disrupt? How? By asking questions? Accusing people of slipping? Find this for me please.

So let me get this straight, by me emphasizing exactly what Mastin has said multiple times that race =/= faction, clearly stating my scumreads and exactly what I think is going on in this game, I'm fence-sitting and scum-framing people?

This is so fucking weak it's amazing. If you're actually Town copper, please do something other than sheep on this LLD wagon because it's just a cop-out. That goes for pretty much everyone on the wagon. If you're just so convinced at like 12 hours into Day 2 that we've found scum/cult - that's fine. But don't just sit there and passively do nothing, and then complain you're being 'scum-framed' for sitting on the easiest fucking wagon ever, for reasons that are mod-confirmed to be unreliable.

Either vote me and stfu, or actually fucking do something in this game because right now you're either a worthless scumbucket or an absolute hindrance to Town.

[rb]

Lynching likely scum is in no way a cop out, you are the town hindrance but the again you are most likely not town.

Examples of fence sitting off the top of my head:

- Your read yesterday on ASOIAF.

- Your questioning about the cult to SS today, that is almost a scum-claim btw.

Mastin said once that race /= faction, which you are pushing as race HAS NOTHING TO DO with faction, and that is false and you know it is.

I am busy lynching lynching LLD, one of you and SS are next on my agenda, don't worry.

Lmfao what a joke.

Do you have anything that isn't days old or based on some wishy-washy "scumslip"?

You're either the shittest player I've ever seen or you're scum.

[rb]

Just want it known that if/when flip, I want:

Wayward Thinker
Copper
A50

And probably Expedience.

All ded.

Thx.

Copper it literally looks like you've just decided it's convenient to scumread me here because I'm doing things you don't necessarily like, while continuing to distract from players like Wayward/Expedience. Also what's your take on the fact that earlier in the game you were townreading Math, and now that I went and independently saw a lot of the things they came up with - we're both in somewhat agreement on our reads. Oh and yeah I see, you were "defending" ASOIAF in Day 1 as well in that absolutely awful interaction them and I had.

You discredited Titus (who's now flipped Town) and as I look further back, literally all you've done this game is tunnel pathetically on Heartless + Me. You initially were on the Kuroi wagon, but you distanced yourself from it once it gained some steam. You're a SHINING BEACON of the so-called, "fence-sitting" play you're accusing me of right now. You've literally done shit-all to try and interact with and be a part of the main happenings of the game. You've just been skirting around prodding pointlessly at some random shit and you've come up with like zero verifiably original thoughts this entire game.

[rb]

I like how you just keep taking the shit I say out of context.

Tunnel "pathetically" - implying that it looks fake. Like you're trying to scumhunt but you're just not. LLD is your "best" scumread, which is super easy for ANYONE to take, and you've created hardly any content on anyone else. You're not doing shit, you're pretending to do shit.

[rb]

Your post 4392is literally pathetic Copper and it's the same pattern that the majority of your 'scumhunting' posts have taken. Mathblade is 100% right to call you out on that, and you're refusing to even give reasons for why you think Mathblade is giving you BS because, "we've found another scum!".

Right, so you're not happy to actually give like, a single decent reason why you think Math is spouting BS - but yeah you'll happily sit here and argue back and forth with me and repeat 10 times that you think LLD is a better lynch?

[rb]

I was always townreading Mathblade you dunce.

[rb]

Welp, game's over now thanks to Copper's amazing 5049.

[rb]

Good cover for your fuckup in 5039 though. Looks like you realised you have literally no choice but to scumread Math because they and I are following similar patterns of thinking/reasoning. You literally can't scucmread me and not them if you're Town.

But you're not Town and you didn't think of that.

[rb]

As for Maths' points:

@Copper why did you say you couldn't townread Song all game yet call them very likely town?

Because as multiball the mere fact they are scum hunting like mad and being genuine about it doesn't guarantee them being town, it is more than enough to defend them D1 though.

This is shit. Being aware and being able to change it are two different things.
I hate meta to read anyone but if you are a meta reader and are going to exclude meta you do so because you realize it doesn't work on that person.

FOS Titus +Copper.

This post is pretty scummy along the lines of RB's SS "question", it makes a pointless distinction between being aware and being able to change your meta(obviously what I am implying is that she can manipulate her meta so that's not the way to read Titus and people asking about it should concentrate on other aspects of her game), and this is also why I started to change my mind on Mathblade. I also see no re-evaluation of that FOS now that he has 1 flip to work with and a claim from me of different sort.

@RB
You continue being a sarcastic ass, I'll lynch LLD and then, assuming my labors bear fruit and I was right about, you can either kill me or face the firing squad tomorrow.

Oh so NOW you're gonna explain stuff?

What labours? You've done nothing all game

[rb]

Copper you're still yet to give actual evidence as to why we should take race as indicating faction.

[rb]

Copper you're still yet to give actual evidence as to why we should take race as indicating faction.

The evidence is there are 5 possibly and 4 almost guaranteed members of the undead race all in the same PT and sharing the same wincon as a faction, I do not believe we are the only ones in that position nor should anyone with a lick of brain.

And do you think anyone in your hood who was not actually undead/treaty wincon would not have the appropriate fakeclaim?

[rb]

Or even if they didn't have a fakeclaim, would anyone in your head even claim to be not undead anyway?

[rb]

Or even if they didn't have a fakeclaim, would anyone in your hood even claim to be not undead anyway?

EBWOP

[rb]

Here's the funniest thing though Copper, which has a lot to do with why I think you're scum. It should be ppprreeetttyy damn obvious by now that I'm aligned with either the Titus/BBMolla faction to anyone with any kind of brain reading this thread. It's exactly why Luna + Stormblade don't want me lynched even if I'm fighting against their Neighbourhood - because their treaty WinCon still works with mine - we all sort of share in the superhappyfuntimes together. You, on the other hand apparently don't like my WinCon because you keep trying to get me lynched. This says A LOT about what your actual motivations are in comparison to other members of the treaty.

[rb]

I also find it hard to believe that Mastin would acctually guarantee your Hood to be purely Undead given her general approach to modding the game in other areas. People have also pointed out they've been in Neighbourhoods where majority are scum, and this game is FAR from the kind of game to worry strictly about "balance". I think Mastin would have made it overall balanced, but there's nothing to suggest there couldn't be multiple scum in the hood because of some arbitrary reason like "muh ballence"

[rb]

ask Luna.

You mean the person who thinks her entire neighbourhood might be scummy?

[rb]

Also it makes little difference whether she did or didn't because as already said:]

"People have also pointed out they've been in Neighbourhoods where majority are scum, and this game is FAR from the kind of game to worry strictly about "balance". I think Mastin would have made it overall balanced, but there's nothing to suggest there couldn't be multiple scum in the hood because of some arbitrary reason like "muh ballence"

So again Copper: do you think that scum in your neighbourhood wouldn't have believable fake-claims?

[rb]

Btw there's 4 races in this game who are considered Undead.

Nosferatu
Undead
Wulden
Vampires

So I don't know why you think your neighbourhood being mod-confirmed to be all undead should mean you think you all literally have the racial descriptor of "undead".

[rb]

Whether they have fake claims or not if they even exist is irrelevant for the point I am making that race is a significant tell of your alignment.

Uh, are you being intentionally obtuse or something?

If it's possible that your neighbourhood have a number of people with fake-claims to deceive the hood into thinking they're undead...then you obviously can't rely on everyone having told the truth. Lmao.

[rb]

Can I get confirmation of that Mastin?

If that's the case then the point does make sense I guess. Meh. I still don't think the hood is scum-free but it's fair that would indicate that Wulden = more likely to be scummers if I were in the hood and privy to that info.

[rb]

I know I still prefer an SS lynch over LLD, all things considered. All the things SS says make me want them to be town but I feel like this game is just never gonna move on until they flip.

[rb]

Can I get confirmation of that Mastin?

If that's the case then the point does make sense I guess. Meh. I still don't think the hood is scum-free but it's fair that would indicate that Wulden = more likely to be scummers if I were in the hood and privy to that info.

We have confirmation from mastin that everyone in the hood is either the race Undead or Wulden, and that there are definitely no Humans, Vampires, Lycans, Nosferatu, or others.

Also jeeze this game has turned into a shining beacon of negativity. I was excited when I saw my neighborhood at first too because it's all players I know and like :\
-Nahdia

Thanks.

Sorry if I'm part of the negativity, copper accusing me of the most ridiculous things ever and then evading and dodging ever giving some kind of example is irritating to say the least. I like to think I give people a fair chance to demonstrate their point because I never shy away from a case on me. I tend to think that if someone's trying to pin either me or someone else I townread as being scum, they better have decent reasons and a total lack of both transparency and reasoning is to me, indicative of scum and if not scum, it just seems so absurdly anti-town imo to not even TRY and be somewhat transparent when asked.

[rb]

Okay, well Mastin did say:

"Factions, loosely speaking, have general trends, sharing race, location, and nation. These traits are not, however, universal."

And I

guess

it might be quite true because Titus + BBMolla all share the same Location/Nation/Race. Presumably there's quite a few others who share that too. All I know is I share the wincon of either Titus/BBMolla and I don't share the same Location/Nation/Race combo, which is why I've been saying that race is totally unreliable. I would think it has some

reliability

now, but not nearly to the extent that people like A50/Copper would have us believe. I'm seriously finding it hard to believe it'd be close to 90% homogoneity, as suggested.

[rb]

Why would House have thought humans comprised one town faction? I get that you aren't him, but... your role PM clearly indicates there are three, doesn't it?

From what I can piece together, it just says what's human. It doesn't say what's Town.

Which is why I think there's a human scum faction. Or maybe human cult, but I'm sure that not every human faction is Town and/or not every human is town.

[rb]

Why would House have thought humans comprised one town faction? I get that you aren't him, but... your role PM clearly indicates there are three, doesn't it?

From what I can piece together, it just says what's human. It doesn't say what's Town.

Which is why I think there's a human scum faction. Or maybe human cult, but I'm sure that not every human faction is Town and/or not every human is town.

And obviously, that not every non-human is scum/cult.

[rb]

I'd bet my left nut on Eastern Kingdom being the human-scum faction. Especially since we've had zero claims from there whatsoever.

[rb]

They claimed Northern Tribes :p

[rb]

How come it didn't tell me you ninja'd me

As far as I know, there's been claims of human town from Northern Tribes, a number of individual factions and some treaty claimers. Titus flipped West Faction. The only human-flavour place in terms of alignment that we haven't seen any claims or flips from is Eastern Kingdom.

[rb]

I suspect a Scum group could comprise very different players on race, nation, location, and maybe even faction. Faction doesn't mean you can't be a part of Scum. Scum could have a member rooted in each faction.

Faction is your WinCon though...you mean scum could have members from different nations/locations I take it?

[rb]

I suspect a Scum group could comprise very different players on race, nation, location, and maybe even faction. Faction doesn't mean you can't be a part of Scum. Scum could have a member rooted in each faction.

Faction is your WinCon though...you mean scum could have members from different nations/locations I take it?

Exactly.

Don't trust people just because they say/you think you're of the same faction, EVEN if you can communicate privately with your factions.

Think about it. If you assume the four factions are separate Towns how much space are you leaving for Scum?

If Factions are like separate Towns, I strongly suspect Scum could be spread among them.

I think we are talking past each other, or we're not getting something.

Faction is your WinCon and you can't be say, West Empire Faction and be scum. We know that from Titus' flip.

But yes you could have your NATION as West Empire and your Faction as scum, not aligned with West Empire.

I'm also doing the opposite of assuming the four factions are separate Towns, I'm saying it's highly likely based on the flips/claims so far that the unclaimed/unflipped faction (Eastern Kingdom) is scummy.

[rb]

I feel like this is all pretty obvious. I forgot if I mentioned it before but the likelihood of a "spy" in the undeads is high and it's just as high a chance Celt is that spy.

Maybe but I want to see how people are thinking because apparently it's really hard to get people to accept that race =/= faction so who knows what other weird af ideas people have in this game. I think it's somewhat important for people to understand what's going on, so that scum can't manipulate these unknowns for their benefit.

[rb]

Also I've said like 50million times who I scumread and who I wanna lynch and I don't see a point repeating "pls vote WT" over and over.

[rb]

Let's assume that either case (Wulden or Undead spy) could be true, if it's Wulden, they have an Undead fake claim, if it's Undead, they have a fake claim too.
So this lil tidbit of info, is pointless.
The fact of the matter is that there's still possible scum in the hood and that's what matters, stop posting comments that dont help find scum pls.

Okay, but you're gonna just work it out in the hood anyway. I would honestly say that it's 10x better if the hood just posts their shit in the main thread because it's much easier to fool like 3-4 people than 20+ and if you DO have a spy/spies then you're just as susceptible to being manipulated as in the main thread anyway. Like you're suddenly townreading copper again but there's nary a peep as to why and whether you still think there's scum InDaHood and who it might be.

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I suspect a Scum group could comprise very different players on race, nation, location, and maybe even faction. Faction doesn't mean you can't be a part of Scum. Scum could have a member rooted in each faction.

Faction is your WinCon though...you mean scum could have members from different nations/locations I take it?

Exactly.

Don't trust people just because they say/you think you're of the same faction, EVEN if you can communicate privately with your factions.

Think about it. If you assume the four factions are separate Towns how much space are you leaving for Scum?

If Factions are like separate Towns, I strongly suspect Scum could be spread among them.

I think we are talking past each other, or we're not getting something.

Faction is your WinCon and you can't be say, West Empire Faction and be scum. We know that from Titus' flip.

But yes you could have your NATION as West Empire and your Faction as scum, not aligned with West Empire.

I'm also doing the opposite of assuming the four factions are separate Towns, I'm saying it's highly likely based on the flips/claims so far that the unclaimed/unflipped faction (Eastern Kingdom) is scummy.

I don't know.

If Scum are given fakeclaims/totally different fakeclaim role PMs, I don't know the extent.

In my gut I get the feeling that if there are Faction PTs that Scum could be within. I'm not an 'Individual' of the Northern Tribes, but I never received a PT.

Also I'm not as inclined as you are to think a whole major faction could be Scum. If anything, I could see Scum having its members hidden among them.

I mean, come on. In a regular game we have the Town and the Scum. I assume the major Factions are like major Towns, and that Scum can be spread broadly across the 'Towns.'

We also haven't seen a Scum flip yet, so we can't know that Scum couldn't have been given the trappings of a certain Faction, but have it tweaked in whatever way Mastin wants it to look like.

Eh, but Mastin said:

Your faction is your wincon. They are not public information.

Like by definition, you cannot possibly be West Empire Faction like Titus, whose wincon is "you win when all threats are eliminated" and simultaneously be scum in that same faction. It's literally impossible to have two people in the same faction with opposing wincons.

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@Tim: this is why I still want to talk about this because there's still misconceptions. People are seeing Faction as flexible: it isn't. Your faction IS your wincon.

You might share a PT with multiple people, that just means you share a PT. People in that PT may have a different wincon/faction, but by the very definition of this game: Faction = Wincon. You cannot have both scum and town in the same faction.

I'm sure this should be mod-confirmable as well.

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Well you're welcome to vote WT with me Luna

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@davesaz: can we not discuss scum-strategy?

Like you're saying we should be scumhunting and that all this nation/location stuff is unhelpful, then you go and discuss scum strategy in the next paragraph :/

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Luna how is your PT classified?

Is it a Faction PT or just a randomly named Neighborhood?

Luna, is your PT a Faction PT or a random Neighborhood?

PEDIT: So you answered on her behalf because you gave her grief for leaking too much of what was said?

...

Which Faction?

What you said lends credence to not all people being in a Faction PT are actually part of it, and don't necessarily have the same wincon.

I know what you're trying to say. But if they have different WinCons, they're not the same faction and it's not really a Faction PT, it's a neighbourhood. But I'm pretty sure they told us that themselves.

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@davesaz: can we not discuss scum-strategy?

Like you're saying we should be scumhunting and that all this nation/location stuff is unhelpful, then you go and discuss scum strategy in the next paragraph :/

It's impossible to discuss the likelihood of a redirect, and therefore the accuracy of the result, without mentioning what someone with a scum motivation might want to do. Yes, I get what you're saying about not giving scum ideas, but we're ignoring a perfectly fine result because of really bad assumptions about when a redirect, if any, would be used.

I figure you could just say, "I trust Luna's result and think a redirect has been unlikely" or something. But whatever, I feel like I'm turning into a detail-Nazi here. This game is very big and potentially confusing and I feel like many people are doing/thinking things without actually understanding. But I guess that's just condescending to keep hammering that point so whatever, I'll just stick to talking about who I think is or isn't scum from now on and leave all this shit to other people even though I can feel my eyeballs itching as I read all the misconceptions.

[rb]

Anyway I had the theory that Isolationist faction didn't really mean a separate thing from what Salt Squad really claimed but I'm starting to feel a redirect was indeed less possible. I wanted to believe in TownSquad but I'm losing faith. Sigh.

[rb]

*eyeball twitch*

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Luna: who are the top scum suspects in your hood? I want to ISO them and see what I can find in the actual game.

[rb]

Luna: who are the top scum suspects in your hood? I want to ISO them and see what I can find in the actual game.

Without disclosing any additional members if they exist, Klingoncelt.
Copper was also a scumread but he's gotten better.

Klingon's posting on Day 1 was just that she thought WT/Expedience/No Retreat were scum.

With your result she's convinced SS is cult and that I'm trying to protect them and therefore also cult. The No Retreat scum read seems to be an original line of thought. She's not really shy about voting any of her scumreads, but she never really pushes any of them either. It's just like, "X is scum" and then votes. It's basically slightly-above DGB level of participation for the most part. which is pretty poor. I don't really see much in Celt's specific reads that cry scum, but she's also not taking much of a stance on getting people she thinks are scum lynched. The reads are just there, not much is done about them so it's null to me. Based on her interactions I'd call her Scum.

Talks a lot about her own playstyle and ability to do meta-reads, and says in 752 that an Expedience flip can tell her if Titus is scum or not - but never specifies which of Expedience's flips indicate what. To me that's just real fucking scummy, because it's completely vague and lets her do pretty much whatever the fuck she wants in an Expedience post-flip situation and avoid any sort of accountability. She avoids directly saying anything anywhere and keeps her vote on No Retreat (a totally futile vote, as it was basically WT vs. Kuroi at that point) all the way up until Dram tells her to vote on something useful.

Her push on me is hilariously bad, and I think it's pretty scummy + opportunistic again to suggest that I've been culted overnight. That's a pretty big stretch to think that I'd overreact that badly (LLD was and still is a much stronger wagon) if I was cult and SS was cult with me, based off my questioning interactions regarding the neighbourhood/Copper. It really strikes me that she wants me to stop trying to assess your neighbourhood for scum, whereas the others in there seem to be open to the idea.

I feel pretty 'off' about Klingon after reading her ISO, and coupled with the fact that the neighbourhood collectively felt bad about her in the early game, I think she's likely scum.

[rb]

Going to bed now.

[rb]

Can I get confirmation of that Mastin?

This is not a comment off of any in-game mechanics.
This is a comment off of, perhaps poorly worded, flavor on my part.

Vampires are born either through breeding (they can reproduce like normal humans), or through a ritual. In this process, they are technically risen from death. This 'risen from death' status is why vampires are mutually exclusive with undead: the process of creating undead from a human is

also

a ritual which raises them from the dead.
Undead are born either through breeding, or through a ritual. This ritual raises them from the dead, and thus, is mutually exclusive with vampirism.
Lycans are born through breeding OR genetic manipulation, akin to a ritual but with SCIENCE instead. This is why they are

not

mutually exclusive with vampires or undead. Thus, there are two offshoot races:
Nosferatu are hybrids who, through genetic manipulation, have gained the lycanthropy strain after having already been vampires.
In contrast, Wulden are hybrids who, through a modified ritual, have gained the power of the undead after having already been lycans.

As such, vampires are not undead, but are similar to undead; wulden are half-undead, half-lycan; nosferatu are half-vampire, half-lycan.

Apologies if any bad wording on my part caused confusion over this.

Thanks, all good.

You DID warn us that even though the game is flavour heavy we shouldn't use it too seriously (or something to that effect) so probably as much my fault for doing that.

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How come it didn't tell me you ninja'd me

As far as I know, there's been claims of human town from Northern Tribes, a number of individual factions and some treaty claimers. Titus flipped West Faction. The only human-flavour place in terms of alignment that we haven't seen any claims or flips from is Eastern Kingdom.

So we should specifically look for an East player to lynch, is that what you're saying?

Cause that sounds scummy.

I'm saying that I think there's probably a human scum faction and that it's probably Eastern Kingdom.

This sounds scummy because...reasons?

[rb]

Wake.

You. Cannot. Have. Conflicting. Wincons. In. The. Same. Faction.

Faction = WinCon.

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Yes the game is ambiguous but what's not ambiguous is that Faction = Wincon.

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It's like you think that I'm saying everyone from NATION Eastern Kingdom will be scum, when I'm not.

I'm saying that I _THINK_ people who are from FACTION Eastern Kingdom are likely scum. They're TWO. COMPLETELY. FUCKING. DIFFERENT. THINGS.

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They even threatened to get me banned for playing against win con, that even mastin had to stop them because im not.

Shittest hood ever tbh.

VOTE: Klingoncelt

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There's no confirmation one of our PT is scum. Just Luna being paranoid. I still feel Klingon is town.
-Nahdia

I find it hard to believe that one of Copper/Klingon isn't scum.

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There's no confirmation one of our PT is scum. Just Luna being paranoid. I still feel Klingon is town.
-Nahdia

I find it hard to believe that one of Copper/Klingon isn't scum.

I guess... I just really think Kling especially will flip town, and I don't want to lynch either of them since there are alternatives that don't have a chance of flipping someone whom I need to live to achieve my wincon. I wish Luna understood this... I've tried to mediate and calm stuff down in the hood the entire time but right now I'm just so frustration with how dysfunctional we are ._.
-Nahdia

Who do you want to lynch today?

[rb]

There's no confirmation one of our PT is scum. Just Luna being paranoid. I still feel Klingon is town.
-Nahdia

I find it hard to believe that one of Copper/Klingon isn't scum.

I guess... I just really think Kling especially will flip town, and I don't want to lynch either of them since there are alternatives that don't have a chance of flipping someone whom I need to live to achieve my wincon. I wish Luna understood this... I've tried to mediate and calm stuff down in the hood the entire time but right now I'm just so frustration with how dysfunctional we are ._.
-Nahdia

Who do you want to lynch today?

Someone outside my hood, preferably?! I know that argument is unique to myself and doesn't hold weight to you just... eugh. At least sympathize.

I keep going back and forth on SS but I don't think they're necessarily a bad lynch. WT possibly because of the dram death mostly, but they've been reasonably scummy anyway. Also RAM made a post that pinged me like crazy earlier today but I didn't point it out bc was on my phone logged in as Nahdia and forgot. LEt me got find it.
-Nahdia

I can actually dig that tbh. RAM I wanted to lynch at start of Day 2 but I can't find much wrong with what they've been doing since so I'm inclined to think I was wrong. WT I still think is scummy, the dram death, kuroi wagon and everything else was terrible.

I'm impartial to a Salt Squad lynch at this point. There's possibilities of redirect and a bunch of other shit but this stuff is taking over the game so hard that I just want to resolve this.

[rb]

Luna why don't you just vote the person you think is scum and fuk da hood?

[rb]

Gonna take a break from this game for a bit. In the morning, I'll look into building a RAM case. I almost never build cases because I'm really not one for pushing or being confident in my reads, but this is a lynch I like a lot and I really don't like the other major wagons.
-Nahdia

Luna why don't you just vote the person you think is scum and fuk da hood?

Because if she's wrong, she kills someone who she needs to keep alive for her wincon

I don't mean she has to lynch someone in hood but if she has someone who she thinks is very scummy, moreso than anyone else then it makes sense to vote them and that's not at all against WinCon. Whether it's in-hood or not shouldn't really be part of it imo. I'm not saying she should focus on lynching her hood but she doesn't need to not-focus on it either, imo.

VOTE: Wayward Thinker

I'm just gonna keep my vote on Wayward because I still think he's most scummy. The SS interactions are frustrating as fuck to parse and if everyone wants to lynch them I'll oblige because there IS a 'guilty' read - but I still townread majority of their content so it makes me uneasy.

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Anyway fuck, my point is that Luna should just do whatever she thinks has the best chance of hitting scum, and if you're townreading Luna then you shouldn't drag her through the mud just because her read doesn't necessarily agree with yours. If you're town and you think another townie is doing a bad vote/lynch, explain who you think is a better target and why.

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Anyway fuck, my point is that Luna should just do whatever she thinks has the best chance of hitting scum, and if you're townreading Luna then you shouldn't drag her through the mud just because her read doesn't necessarily agree with yours. If you're town and you think another townie is doing a bad vote/lynch, explain who you think is a better target and why.

I'm not dragging her through the mud. I'm trying to reason with her and she's being despondent in the hood for which I really don't blame her so I'm trying to talk to her here. And I said I would make a RAM case. There are other lynches as well I could support. I just really don't want to play this suboptimally based on a read I don't share and I want to make it clear to her that lynching this scumread is a bad move for her too because of the major risk involved.

Sorry I wasn't implying you specifically were I just meant the hood toxicity in general. Like Luna is one of my strongest townreads and she's getting bullied out of the game, so that sucks for both of us. I want to cooperate with my townreads and I want the people I townread to genuinely enjoy the game because then they play better.

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Hey guys I'm gonna claim while Math is gone.

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I feel the bad feels because my gut keeps telling me SS is town.

Salt Squad y u so gud @ towntelling?

[rb]

@Toog: Please vote SS unless you have strong reasons to believe my results were tampered with, then i suggest you start proposing who you think tampered with my results from my hood.

Tbh this makes sense but I think Klingon is likely scum regardless of what SS flips. My gut just keeps screaming at me that SS is town but this game is never gonna move on so: VOTE: Salt Squad

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Actually fuck that for now, there's still plenty of Day and there's too many people who haven't given input.

UNVOTE: Salt Squad

[rb]

If we let SS live today then Day 3 is literally just a rerun of today. Thaf thought is unbearable.

[rb]

It wasn't necessary to desecrate this public space with a flood of questions to mastin that could have been answered privately. That and people bemoaning the structure of the game. Grow up (please).

WT just isn't getting votes. Celt/(Bacde?) is though it seems (maybe marginally better there isn't a new VC), so in the interest of streamlining the day

VOTE: KlingonCelt

I agree WT is best lynch, but I think SS is better than Klingon now. I still have gut-feeling SS is town but this game's not moving forward until they die. I'm not going to vote yet, and I want to lynch SS/Klingon/WT.

[rb]

But hey whatever, I really don't care which of those 3 die. People need to gtfo LLD though.

[rb]

Im probably just getting tired, but im glad we're finally coming to a conclusion.

What is the conclusion?

I will literally vote for anyone.

Vote Salt Squad or Wayward Thinker. Whichever one you think is most scummy.

[rb]

If I die this night please please please lynch WT.

Thx.

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Wat.

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VOTE: Salt Squad

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Are we sure they're dead yet?

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Good job town I think. Lol, I was tunneling on RAM + Cephrir at different points on Day 1 and got talked out of it by town players. Fucking knew they were scum.

Based on flips, I think DGB is town. Mathblade too. DGB's (lack of) play worried me but she was pushing for lynches on RAM. I don't see her bussing like that when there's already a guilty on SS in the same faction, because she could have just bussed SS for towncred like Cephrir did. Mathblade I need to check, but IIRC she was happy lynching both RAM and SS as well. Again I think it's unlikely that the scum would bus on RAM if there's already a guilty on SS. Also I nationed checked Math and she was West Empire. It seems to me that the West Empire Nation being scum is an anomaly. I'm more inclined to think she's Titus' faction or another Town, not scum. We need a cult flip BADLY at this point though to know what their general patterns are but for now I think Mathblade is town.

Town:
DGB
Mathblade

I think Wulden are probably the cult, as it makes sense the scum need to eliminate Wulden entirely to win. I don't think that every single Wulden will be cult, but I agree with Copper now that it's very likely they're close to 90% culters - sorry Copper. I'm happy with LLD lynch - especially since Cephrir wanted us to NOT lynch them. It could be reverse psychology and/or just WIFOM at this point - he pushed on SS hard because that bus would make him almost conftown. I'm glad the Town Vigilantes knew their shit. SS' flip probably helped too since it heavily indicated that most of the scum were actually Nosferatu.

Based on play, I'm having trouble sorting all the players in this game but I think even more strongly that Wayward Thinker is scum. The lack of interaction between them and RAM, Cephrir and if I'm remembering correctly SS townread them at some point? Still have the fact that Kuroi got counter-wagoned from Wayward as well. We need to lynch Wayward's slot ASAP.

I think Wulden are probably the cult, as it makes sense the scum need to eliminate Wulden entirely to win. I don't think that every single Wulden will be cult, but I agree with Copper now that it's very likely they're close to 90% culters - sorry Copper. I'm happy with LLD lynch - especially since Cephrir wanted us to NOT lynch them. It could be reverse psychology and/or just WIFOM at this point - he pushed on SS hard because that bus would make him almost conftown. I'm glad the Town Vigilantes knew their shit. SS' flip probably helped too since it heavily indicated that most of the scum were actually Nosferatu.

I think Klingon/Bacde is scum (or cult). The fact that the entire hood has been basically razed except for them piques my interest. They were the most conftown players in the game. I guess Bacde could be town but I really doubt it based on their play.

Toogleoo is town based on his play imo, Wake too. They've both made mechanics blunders but their play makes a lot of sense to me and they reach similar conclusions. So overall I see town as:

Toogeloo
Mathblade - West Empire
DGB
Wake

I'll have to do some re-reading because basically all my top scumreads are dead except Wayward Thinker, which is really nice actually. Having some strong townreads doesn't hurt though.

@Toogeloo, Mathblade, DGB, Wake - what do you guys think is the best course of action?

[rb]

Go ahead and Lynch me if you must but nosferatu visited Luna fox and was the only person to do so and Luna fox died overnight

Rach Marie also checked Luna fox so there is my watcher proof

My whole undead slave faction but me is now dead

Why do ppl want to Lynch Kling? What happened in the game.before this

Kling played scummy af. I was right about Cephrir and RAM. It could be my ego wanting to be right but I'm inclined to think my read of Klingon as scum is good.

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Good job town I think. Lol, I was tunneling on RAM + Cephrir at different points on Day 1 and got talked out of it by town players. Fucking knew they were scum.

Based on flips, I think DGB is town. Mathblade too. DGB's (lack of) play worried me but she was pushing for lynches on RAM. I don't see her bussing like that when there's already a guilty on SS in the same faction, because she could have just bussed SS for towncred like Cephrir did. Mathblade I need to check, but IIRC she was happy lynching both RAM and SS as well. Again I think it's unlikely that the scum would bus on RAM if there's already a guilty on SS. Also I nationed checked Math and she was West Empire. It seems to me that the West Empire Nation being scum is an anomaly. I'm more inclined to think she's Titus' faction or another Town, not scum. We need a cult flip BADLY at this point though to know what their general patterns are but for now I think Mathblade is town.

Town:
DGB
Mathblade

I think Wulden are probably the cult, as it makes sense the scum need to eliminate Wulden entirely to win. I don't think that every single Wulden will be cult, but I agree with Copper now that it's very likely they're close to 90% culters - sorry Copper. I'm happy with LLD lynch - especially since Cephrir wanted us to NOT lynch them. It could be reverse psychology and/or just WIFOM at this point - he pushed on SS hard because that bus would make him almost conftown. I'm glad the Town Vigilantes knew their shit. SS' flip probably helped too since it heavily indicated that most of the scum were actually Nosferatu.

Based on play, I'm having trouble sorting all the players in this game but I think even more strongly that Wayward Thinker is scum. The lack of interaction between them and RAM, Cephrir and if I'm remembering correctly SS townread them at some point? Still have the fact that Kuroi got counter-wagoned from Wayward as well. We need to lynch Wayward's slot ASAP.

I think Wulden are probably the cult, as it makes sense the scum need to eliminate Wulden entirely to win. I don't think that every single Wulden will be cult, but I agree with Copper now that it's very likely they're close to 90% culters - sorry Copper. I'm happy with LLD lynch - especially since Cephrir wanted us to NOT lynch them. It could be reverse psychology and/or just WIFOM at this point - he pushed on SS hard because that bus would make him almost conftown. I'm glad the Town Vigilantes knew their shit. SS' flip probably helped too since it heavily indicated that most of the scum were actually Nosferatu.

I think Klingon/Bacde is scum (or cult). The fact that the entire hood has been basically razed except for them piques my interest. They were the most conftown players in the game. I guess Bacde could be town but I really doubt it based on their play.

Toogleoo is town based on his play imo, Wake too. They've both made mechanics blunders but their play makes a lot of sense to me and they reach similar conclusions. So overall I see town as:

Toogeloo
Mathblade - West Empire
DGB
Wake

I'll have to do some re-reading because basically all my top scumreads are dead except Wayward Thinker, which is really nice actually. Having some strong townreads doesn't hurt though.

@Toogeloo, Mathblade, DGB, Wake - what do you guys think is the best course of action?

What play are you talking abt?

I haven't done shit yet

You enter into a slot under pressure and your response is to start fighting as opposed to re-reading some of the game and giving your thoughts? Way to be obvscum

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Go ahead and Lynch me if you must but nosferatu visited Luna fox and was the only person to do so and Luna fox died overnight

Rach Marie also checked Luna fox so there is my watcher proof

My whole undead slave faction but me is now dead

Why do ppl want to Lynch Kling? What happened in the game.before this

Kling played scummy af. I was right about Cephrir and RAM. It could be my ego wanting to be right but I'm inclined to think my read of Klingon as scum is good.

This post means jack squat

Are you seriously confident you can read for scum in a game this large and confusing?

I know for a fact you cant

Managed to read 2 scum already. Keep scumming it up dude.

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But look it's okay because with scum dead it's likely we can actually finally kill Wayward Thinker so I don't really care about you anyway. But if you are INDEED the last person in your hood then it's pretty likely you're scum - because every single member of your hood that we knew of, who has NOW FLIPPED TOWN - was thinking that there was a Scum/Cult spy in their hood. So you being last alive in what has so far been an All-Town hood? Oh boy, this is juicy.

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You don't have guilty on scum tbh, because RachMarie said she visited RAM and not Luna.

One of you is obviously lying, guess which one I think it is?

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@ASOIAF: I think I already explained my townread of Math in 5850.

Also in a game with 18 players and 3 dead scum, is it really that crazy I'd have 4 townreads after like 235 pages and almost 10 flips? I don't think so tbh. Are you trying to say I have a lack of town-like suspicion or something?

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But look it's okay because with scum dead it's likely we can actually finally kill Wayward Thinker so I don't really care about you anyway. But if you are INDEED the last person in your hood then it's pretty likely you're scum - because every single member of your hood that we knew of, who has NOW FLIPPED TOWN - was thinking that there was a Scum/Cult spy in their hood. So you being last alive in what has so far been an All-Town hood? Oh boy, this is juicy.

So basically you are searching for reasons for me to be scum rather than ya know... Making reads?

Lol

Yeah okay.

>enter game
>start fighting
>say you're not gonna read the game for some stupid reason
>complain that I'm the one not making reads when you just admitted you haven't even read the fucking game

How about, you go and read why everyone thinks Klingon is scum or do the thing you're telling me to do by making reads.

In fact: I made four townreads and 2 scumreads just on this page. Are you an idiot or what?

[rb]

DGB was also happy to lynch LLD, who was Wulden. Who could probably be scum. She was wanting to lynch both Isolationists AND Wulden. She's clearly not Isolationist and if LLD flips cult as I suspect she will then I think DGB is not cult either.

Actually maybe she's just cult and bussing cult like Cephrir was scum bussing scum. Point taken, DGB is townlean for me.

Also I never said nation made anyone town confirmed. Please read the following carefully so we can stop this pointless interaction.

We know that things like Nation/Location are _GENERAL_ indicators. GENERALLY speaking, West Empire has been TOWN players (Titus/BBMolla/someone else). We just killed Scum from West Empire (Salt Squad), which means that I think we've already killed at least one of the the West Empire EXCEPTIONS to the rule which means it's much more likely the remaining members adhere to the GENERAL rule. Yes, they could be scum/cult but I like their play, their voting patterns and the way the flips and their Nation match up with one another.

ASOIAF this is literally the most useless interaction can we please not repeat Day 1. I don't really care if you don't want to form a townblock, I want to have one for at least Day 3. It's obviously subject to review each day and it's not like I'm just going, "oh hay guyz these are town and that read will never ever change 100% confirmed town rest of game kthx" so if that's what you're worried about then don't.

[rb]

I love how you guys are like "aggression=scum"

When did I move to bizarro world

Actually it's more like:

"The last 235 pages of game indicate your slot is scum and your reluctance to read the game and be helpful is at best anti-town. So I'm pretty sure you're scum."

[rb]

DGB was also happy to lynch LLD, who was Wulden. Who could probably be scum. She was wanting to lynch both Isolationists AND Wulden. She's clearly not Isolationist and if LLD flips cult as I suspect she will then I think DGB is not cult either.

Actually maybe she's just cult and bussing cult like Cephrir was scum bussing scum. Point taken, DGB is townlean for me.

Also I never said nation made anyone town confirmed. Please read the following carefully so we can stop this pointless interaction.

We know that things like Nation/Location are _GENERAL_ indicators. GENERALLY speaking, West Empire has been TOWN players (Titus/BBMolla/someone else). We just killed Scum from West Empire (Salt Squad), which means that I think we've already killed at least one of the the West Empire EXCEPTIONS to the rule which means it's much more likely the remaining members adhere to the GENERAL rule. Yes, they could be scum/cult but I like their play, their voting patterns and the way the flips and their Nation match up with one another.

ASOIAF this is literally the most useless interaction can we please not repeat Day 1. I don't really care if you don't want to form a townblock, I want to have one for at least Day 3. It's obviously subject to review each day and it's not like I'm just going, "oh hay guyz these are town and that read will never ever change 100% confirmed town rest of game kthx" so if that's what you're worried about then don't.

I understand your feelings. my comment was not something for interacting with you. I just didn't like what you did and I expressed how it alarmed me.

but what about it was like anything happened in day 1? I can't remember.

~Ice

We had a big argument or something on Day 1 just because I made a read you didn't like.

[rb]

it wasn't that. I asked about your read on me I explained why your concern about me is wrong you tried to advertise like I was saying "hey townread me cuase I'm town".

what about it was similar to what I told about your today's intial post?

~Ice

That this interaction is turning really shit and unproductive because it's not based on you actually scumreading/scumhunting me, you just dislike something about my play and it's going to take me like 47 posts just to demonstrate to your satisfaction that our difference in playstyles isn't some scumtell. Or something like that.

[rb]

Go ahead and Lynch me if you must but nosferatu visited Luna fox and was the only person to do so and Luna fox died overnight

Rach Marie also checked Luna fox so there is my watcher proof

My whole undead slave faction but me is now dead

Why do ppl want to Lynch Kling? What happened in the game.before this

Yeah and RachMarie said she actually checked RAM.

Which means one of you is lying. Guess which one I think it is?

[rb]

That said, Nosferatu isn't exactly a shining beacon of town. I could believe them being scum.

[rb]

ASOIAF: is there any reason you would not want to lynch Nosferatu?

[rb]

Well tbh we know Nosferatu isn't isolationist. So if he's killed anyone it's not because he's scum.

He was the one who outed Cephrir's race and voted him initially. I find it really damn unlikely that he would have been isolationist faction with Cephrir. So if he's not town, he's either in scumfaction #2 (if there even is 2 scumfactions) or he's cult. Agreed?

[rb]

WAIT. Rach and Bacde stop for a moment.

Rach: RAM was a Redirector. What if they redirected from themselves onto Luna? That would explain why Bacde saw Nosferatu AND RachMarie go visit Luna. Yes? Is this possible? Mastin can you confirm?

[rb]

@Mathblade: you think even nation claims are that bad? It's an ability every single player in this game has :/

[rb]

In wayb4 Wake is Destroyer of Worlds.

[rb]

Nosferatu for cult. ASOIAF culted.

Lynch either one tbh. I don't think Bacde is lying.

[rb]

WAIT. Rach and Bacde stop for a moment.

Rach: RAM was a Redirector. What if they redirected from themselves onto Luna? That would explain why Bacde saw Nosferatu AND RachMarie go visit Luna. Yes? Is this possible? Mastin can you confirm?

this needs nosferatu action claim first.

but how did Ram died then if he was redirected to someone else?

strongman?

~Ice

Both RAM and Luna died, I'm not 100% sure how it would all work out but something tells me something in that fact means it's not as suspect as you think. Also, pretty sure you're cult with that Nosferatu visit so die pls.

[rb]

They mean the player named "Nosferatu"

[rb]

^ @MathBlade

It seems likely to me the PLAYER Nosferatu is cult because: They visited ASOIAF. ASOIAF didn't die. He said nothing about their race.

They visited Cephrir: Cephrir didn't die, he found out his race was Nosferatu and wanted to lynch him.

Isolationist are primarily Nosferatu and need to kill all Wulden.

Presumably, cult needs to kill the Nosferatu then? Or something like that? Also, race-cop is likely a cult ability to help with the recruiting process no? I'm just trying to put it all together and it seems like Nosferatu the PLAYER is cult.

[rb]

If what ASOIAF says is true they can't be culted, it means they aren't human. But if they're a non-human that isn't strictly part of the race that Nosferatu the PLAYER needs to kill, he probs wouldn't announce ASOIAF. It seems more likely to me that ASOIAF is just culted, but I think we should lynch Nosferatu the PLAYER and if they flip Cult then Vig can take care of ASOIAF or something.

[rb]

Okay look I believe Bacde being watcher makes sense because there's an Isolationist Ninja flip.

I also see no reason for them to bullshit about Nosferatu's visits and I don't see why I'm wrong in suspecting Nosferatu as cult. Someone's gonna have to explain this to me real slow why this is a bad line of thinking.

p-edit: We don't have confirmation of two scum we have confirmation of at least one scum and one cult.

[rb]

Yeah this is most likely multibal

this is confirmed MB. We know there are ATLEAST two scum factions. You know who else said stuff like this? Cephir and Copper.

And Copper was town.

[rb]

And, with FIVE fucking kills, I'm pretty damned sure we have a Serial Killer, too. MEANING, the Towniest fucking player could be a Serial Killer!

In way b4 Wake is Destroyer of Worlds again.

[rb]

This game is a clusterfuck, and I intuitively read this whole Wulden = scumteam two thing as being wrong but I can't really explain why. I don't care about your shitty FoS either Wake, I'm not voting LLD until I figure out why I feel wrong about it.

[rb]

And, with FIVE fucking kills, I'm pretty damned sure we have a Serial Killer, too. MEANING, the Towniest fucking player could be a Serial Killer!

yes, I think you are a SK lol

The way I was looking at this game was undead and isolationist=cult/scum and the rest were fragmented town factions. Is this not correct?

and wake is SK

Are you also thinking that Wake bringing attention to the 3rd party so much is because he wants us to think the 3rd party would never draw so much attention to the 3rd party? Because if you're also thinking this then I'm also thinking this.

[rb]

And, with FIVE fucking kills, I'm pretty damned sure we have a Serial Killer, too. MEANING, the Towniest fucking player could be a Serial Killer!

In way b4 Wake is Destroyer of Worlds again.

I'm not that crafty. If I were Destroyer of Worlds the very last thing I would do is mention its existence.

All I know is that it exists and if anyone has gotten a message during the Night they need to reveal what it says ASAP.

Sure you're not.

[rb]

"It's wise to be... cautious... with Wake."

[rb]