Gistou (Over!)

[Almost50]

I'll repeat my request for NATION CHECKS to be revealed, please.

Mine were:

N1: Bacde (Klingoncelt then) = East
N2: Mathblade = West (Obviously a FALSE result)
N3: DGB = West

[Almost50]

And -of course- it would help if someone volunteered to give out their own nation to complete the map.

[Almost50]

Ah, Race checks while of more importance are also more dangerous to reveal. That being said, I think you already gave us what you got so thank you for sharing.

I would also suggest Bacde should be watching No Retreat tonight. Scum would want to kill the outed champ, but both their Ninjas are already dead, so the killer will be seen by the Watcher.

Also the Isolationists redirector is also dead, so smart play by Wulden dictates they let their rivals do the kill and wait for Bacde to out the killer. (Or you could redirect Bacde, kill No Retreat, and hope the Isolationists won't be killing one of you to eliminate your current advantage over them. Your choice.)

Just a thought though, so I'm open for discussion and comments if you see fit.

[Almost50]

The more I reread and think about it the more I start buying into Rach being town (and consequently Wake and probably Bacde).

Then I look at Toog and I wonder why I saw his play as derp town. Ot could very well fit into a smart scum opting to use their mod-provided fake claim early enough to avoid suspicion. In fact, he could have killed Luna while claiming he tried to protect her.

@No Retreat:

Forget what I said earlier. You may target anyone you wish with your vig shot.

A reworked read list may come shortly (or may not, depending on whether I can figure out a couple of things), but I'm now open to lynching Toog as well.

[Almost50]

@Rach:

Would you be willing to volunteerily state your nation?

[Almost50]

I'm not even sure why Expedience, but hey.. what do I know?

rb, I recall you were one of those who opted to check nations in your pre-game choices. It would be nice to share your 3 results thus far if you will.

[Almost50]

Titus N1 - West Empire
Mathblade N2 - West Empire
DGB N3 - West Empire

OK, so it's more like a deflector rather than a redirector (bc both myself and rb got West for Mathblade). So the Wuldens have a deflector.

@rb:

Funny that you've been tunneling WT but never checked for their nation!!

@Rach:

It may not matter NOW, but it may make a difference later, and it would be a shame for someone to die and the info get lost.

[Almost50]

I dunno how I feel abt watching no retreat

I literally explained why this should be the case. If we are going to lose a Town Vig we had better get one scum down in return. I'd hate to lose NR and NOT have someone to hang for it too!!!

Don't worry Bacde we'll lynch NR later.

You want to lynch a claimed TPR??? (I realize everyone IS a PR in a way, but I'm talking one of the extremely powerful ones!!).

[Almost50]

What's strange is many do/did not share their nation/location check results when that IS what should've been done (if for nothing else then to avoid double or even treble checks on the same person, and/or to verify one didn't get redirected if a double check was done on the same person).

Even if we don't know what to do with these results someone else may find them useful in some way. We now know the recruiting/culting is more reliant on Race not nation or location.

[Almost50]

@Mastin2: LOL.. No Problem

Alright, guys. It's very likely a redirector not a deflector, as Mastina has just PM'd me acknowledging I should've got OTHER instead of West for my check on Mathblade's nation.

So, only you were redirected, rb.

[Almost50]

@Expedience:

Your way of making everybody claim is just NOT impressing me at all! Like, you COULD get easily guess which of them is the remaining champ without necessarily outing them to the public.

Btw, do you check nations or locations? If nations, please claim your results. Now THAT might prove more useful than outright claiming roles.

[Almost50]

Like, we have 3 flipped Northern Tribes and 3 alive. That leaves 1 unclaimed/flipped from the Northern Tribes.

We had 4 Western flips, and DGB alive, so 2 more West out there and they're likely to be town.

3 East flips and 2 living claims leaving 2 unknown, and then we have 5 alive from Other.

Now tell me you have TWO others checked as Northern from the unknowns and I'd lynch Toog in a split of a second because that would confirm he used a fake claim, then we re-evaluate based on the night action and checks.

[Almost50]

We now know the recruiting/culting is more reliant on Race not nation or location.

Say what now? We don't know anything about the Cult.

Forget about the cult and talk to me about your checks.

[Almost50]

Wait, why are we just forgetting about you saying we know things we don't? What do you want to know about my checks?

Nothing. You already stated them while I was typing and I almost never check what's been posted while I'm composing, so my bad!

[Almost50]

@Almost

. Lets talk about the second lynch (my vig) how much do you trust the masons? Do you think Exp is town and if so why? Talk to me about Nos and DGB.

Your Vig is probably yours to decide, and I take back any reservations bc I'm caught too deep in "ifs & buts" with too many possibilities.

Right now I'm trusting you the most, followed by Nos & Heartless. I have a strong town read on ASoIaF based on meta and content.

I do not fully trust the masons, but one of the scenarios I'm considering suggests they're town. Confirmation could depend on a couple of flips and/or more nation checks revealed.

Expedience is probably town based on his play. If he's scum he's pushing his luck too hard.

I have only read up to this post I'm responding to, so I may have more to add IF anyone else decided to give more info.

[Almost50]

ok, but I don't want to do Tim.

If we chose to town read DGB & Nos then Tim IS the right lynch IMHO.

[Almost50]

WDBWOP:

Not "the", but "a".

[Almost50]

@dave:

I thought you were going to give the nation check results you got over the previous 3 nights 9as well as your own nation, if you will). I'm sorry if I misunderstood your "I will check my PMs.." announcement.

[Almost50]

A 50 did you get mine and Wakes answers?

Also I know dav said he checked me and got other. us

Yes, I did. Thank you

[Almost50]

Nation checks:
Nosferatu - other
RachMarie - other
Heartless - other

Mine is also other.

Check. thank you

[Almost50]

This is a bit confusing, cuz now it seems Human Factions did not start with the same number of members!!

[Almost50]

Wait you are expecting anything in this convoluted game to make sense

I did actually expect "something" to make sense. I mean, not "everything", but -at least- some basics!!

[Almost50]

Yup. This game is burning all the fat in my brain!

[Almost50]

We have 11 days left in the day... 11. I am not getting why I am going to be lynched with 10 days left in the day.

This game is really hard to keep track of. I have things going on... I had no idea this game was going to be so complex, honestly.

I'll claim tomorrow.

This is becoming silly. This has been posted over 40 hours ago, and stalling the game just isn't helping anyone. Somebody please hammer.

[Almost50]

I think remaining scum are in {RachMarie/Wake88, davesaz, Nosferatu, Tim}

I'll hammer if WT hasn't claimed by the time I go to bed tonight.

Rach/Wake don't make much sense as scum now. They could've saved us a LOT of time (and saved me some effort) if they had agreed Wake was recruited last night when I brought it up.

davesaz is a mystery to me. Tim is suspicious, and so is Toog.

To me; Nos is as probably Town as you.

If I may suggest some night actions I'd have Bacde watching No Retreat (this is a MUST), Rach, Nos & TWIE checking for the races of dave, Tim, TWIE, DGB & Toog (take your pick), and nation checks on ASoIaF, rb & TWIE (looks like TWIE is the one to target with as many checks)

Vigs could also take their pick from the dave, Tim, TWIE, DGB & Toog pool .. or maybe even rb.

[Almost50]

5 iso - 5 wulden - 1 cult - more(?) starting scum is a possibly no?

Possible, but not probable. That would be too strong for the Iso/Waldens vs the Town. Town started with 2-3 members for the East/West/North, and considering scum faction ALSO have the advantage of sharing a PT that would make the town too weak. Add to that the recruitment shot and.. as I said .. not probable IMHO.

[Almost50]

Rach/Wake don't make much sense as scum now. They could've saved us a LOT of time (and saved me some effort) if they had agreed Wake was recruited last night when I brought it up.

What do you mean? :S

I did see a noticeable change in Wake's attitude at the start of this day, and I pointed it out. When they claimed Masons I suggested Rach was scum (Wulden to be precise) and recruited Wake and -also- faked a check result on Bacde.

Later on that theory got weakened by other info/analysis, but the change in Wake's attitude would have been justified already by the fact he did get recruited. The only change is Rach may not be Wulden after all and thus the race check on Bacde is accurate, so I'm leaning town on all 3 of them.

[Almost50]

@Heartless:

It would be resolved overnight. If Rach IS scum, the other scum team have a clear target and we don't even need to interfere. If she flips town though, her faction continues with a chance to win via Wake. Now let's worry about the players with no clear links. This one is pretty obvious and once one of them flips we will know for sure.

[Almost50]

you are watching me and checking heartless or EXP.

Checking who? I thought you had cleared Heartless already!

[Almost50]

I meant the fact that Nos visited ASoIAF N1 with a night action (not a check). And looking at Nos's PM he only has passive personal abilities, which means it was a factional ability which implies he attempted to recruit ASoIAF night 1

Makes enough sense to me.

VOTE: ASoIaF

[Almost50]

@Expedience:

Tim is -again- correct, bc I checked ASoIaF's nation last night and got West!

[Almost50]

Which, btw.. reminds me. Didn't someone say Nos' nation was West??

[Almost50]

A quick analysis of the NKs, Toog probably protected No Retreat (makes most sense to me since Toog died and No Retreat survived). However, I'll wait for Bacde to confirm if this is true.

Nos was probably killed by one of the Town Vigs, which leaves the other Town shot a mystery. Then we have Heartless dead by .. Wuldens?

I'm 50-50 on Isolationists being extinct already. Otherwise we have 2 missing kills, not just one.

But wait! We DID have 5 deaths on N2, didn't we? Titus was already dead then, so where did the 5th kill come from?

[Almost50]

someone probably checked you A50 that is what Wake and I have discussed in our thread.

Someone who was not northern I mean

???

First, how do you know that?
Second, if they did then they're dead. But I don't think that's the case because I've not been notified my PGO was used, so I'm leaning against the possibility. But I'll check with Mastina anyway to verify no mod slip occurred and I'll get back to you.

P-edit:

Knowing them both; I fully believe ASoIaF there. Flavour name, please? Just for my amusement. I think we know by now that NAMES don't matter (i.e. I won't be doing what I did in Bloodborne)

UNVOTE:

P-edit2:

Yes, Wake. I've been telling you since the start of the game.. all HUMANS are town, except for those who may have been recruited/converted by scum later.

[Almost50]

With ASoIaF back in the Town camp, I have to choose between TWIE, rb & davesaz. I'll have to go read some more before I decide which though.

[Almost50]

Wake stated he checked you and you came up Northern

True & true. So, where is that someone who was "not Northern". I'm a bit lost here. Do you mean on N2?? Because I thought you were talking about last night, so that's why I'm puzzled.

[Almost50]

Oh, then I misunderstood. On N2 (when we had 5 deaths) it could be the case, yes.. but I still didn't get notified of anything. But it makes more sense now since that was the night I checked Math, got West for Nation and then got notified later (after her flip) that I should've got Other instead. Hmmm... Thanks for letting me know I might've been open for a NK for 3 nights now!

P-edit:

Check his flavour name, Wake. He's the Eastern Kingdom Champion.

[Almost50]

No Retreat is 200% Town (although that defies all basics of Statistics & Probability)

He claimed a role that we know for sure does exist in the game (check Titus' role PM) and he didn't get counter claimed or NK'd (bc if he was faking it the real Hero would've -for sure- vigged him if they didn't want to CC).

[Almost50]

OK, I think I want this more:

VOTE: TWIE

Although I don't mind more pressure on rb too, so feel free to keep/add your vote there as well.

P-edit:

Oh, you don't get it. IF someone targeted me on N2, then my PGO is off. I'm not NK-proof. I was only a 1-shot PGO (but still hanging on to the hope nobody targeted me other than wake, thus it would still be intact, and that's why I didn't get notified of anything. Just let me hope for the best.. you know .. let me live in my dream!)

[Almost50]

So, rach.. you started off as an Individual Nosferatu, and you didn't have a PT with anyone else until you recruited Wake. Right? I'm kind of STRONGLY for it now, and I'll explain shortly. I just want the whole thing complete in my mind before I put it on air.

Now, check the readcted part of your PM and tell me if there's anything worth mentioning there. You know.. compare your PM to that of -flipped- Kuroi and see if there's something we can make of it. Thanks in advance.

[Almost50]

@Tim:

If the two parents went against "tradition", then they would migrate to a new place. It makes perfect sense to me. And the Undead-Vampire hybrid is Lycans I think (not sure though).

So, unless there's another player who specifically belongs to the INDIVIDUAL HUMANS FACTION I'd say the chances of that claim being true is very high.

In fact, claiming nation (or even a mass claim) could very well solve this game here and now. There are probably 2-3 Wuldens alive (the 5th is if they got to recruit someone already) and 0-1 Isolationists + 0-2 Culted Humans. Worst case scenario is 6 Towns vs 6 Scum AND Town has 2 killing roles alive. This "worst case" is the only thing preventing me from demanding a mass claim already, bc if I was sure it's 7-5 or 8-4 I'd do it in a split of a second.

@rb:

Claim your nation, please. I do realize you're less likely to be scum, but you're not totally on the clear on my list.

P.S. I did a re-read of the whole thread fro D1/D2 to re-evaluate my reads.

@Tim (again):

LLD was the Wulden Race Checker. We're looking for their Champ, redirector and possible Tracker (or maybe "watcher")

[Almost50]

@rb:

SS was on WT all game too, and he was of the same faction of hers! That doesn't make much sense, but bussing IS a thing even in a game this large! You need better defense, but -honestly- I do feel like lynching TWIE before you anyway, and if your flavour info checks (Nation first, then we will see) I guess I can mechanically clear you, if only on my own list.

[Almost50]

@rb:

Actually, nation AND faction, please. If BOTH check with my table, you're off the hook.

[Almost50]

Well, she was a ROLE COP (that's even stronger than a Race Cop in this game, as she got all of a player's abilities).

But anyway, I'm not going to argue much. I just need rb to give me what I had requested of him and will probably get to the bottom of this.

You could also speed it up if you opt to willingly volunteer to give out some of your own info.

[Almost50]

oh yeah

race Nos
location is div something which based on flavor seems to be some kind of forest region? Divitias it is.
nation is other


flavor not role though on the lovers I dont die if exped dies or vice versa Just there is a TON in my messages from the mod and role PM about how much I care about her and search to find her and feel guilty I was not strong enough to protect her stuff like that so mostly flavor.

PERFECT! Checks out (in addition to more indications).

P.S. I apologize in advance.

[Almost50]

@rb:

Actually, nation AND faction, please. If BOTH check with my table, you're off the hook.

Trying to narrow down who to cult at night?

WOW! I can't believe you got me figured out so easily, especially with the CULT LEADER already having flipped!! That was a genius thought of you.

Let me try again: Nationa and Faction, per favore. Grazie.

[Almost50]

OK, we'll do.. IF you flip TOWN.

VOTE: rb

@Rach:

Not only does your flavour name and info check, but if you check Individual Factions (1 Vampire flip, 2 Humans flip, your own claim and even ASoIaF's) you'd see all of you are PROTECTIVE ROLES. JK, Doctor, RB, BG and PGO. That's why it all checks.

Too bad rb can't claim a protective now, and thus can't be an Individual Human. Sorry, mate. You blew it for yourself.

P.S. I've got MORE stuff to declare once everybody has spoken and more people opted to claim stuff.

[Almost50]

Oh, we're back to %ages. GREAT. There's an 89% rb is scum in this game.

[Almost50]

Also, Rach started out as a lone member of their faction, just like Kuroi did. They win when the town wins EVEN if they were dead themselves. Check!

[Almost50]

So, the town block (100% Town) from my view are myself, No Retreat, Rach & Wake. I'm strongly leaning town on DGB and think Tim can be Town (pending some flavour details to be claimed).

ASoIaF is very likely town and Expedience still looks Town to me. It's TWIE/rb (one of them) + Bacde (confirmed Scum).

Double VOTE: rb

And that vote is not moving. I KNOW cornered scum when I see one.

For the last time: I want your Nation, Location, Race & Faction, as well as your Flavour Name. One more bad post from you and I'll be asking for your Flavour Characters credit card and social security number, and I'm dead certain Mastina didn't even think of including those in your PM, so when you fail to provide this info you WILL be lynched. I'm dead serious here. No more BS. Claim or die.

[Almost50]

A50 why am I going to claim again?

Do me a favour, why don't you guess what I am

I did, and I want you to confirm it.

@ASoIaF:

In your role PM, does it say "Hybrid" on the bottom where it says "you check as .."?

[Almost50]

@Tim:

Great Ridge checks, but I don't understand the "cannot be culted" part. Could you please elaborate on that? Bc -to my knowledge- those who could not be culted are the Champions.

[Almost50]

Ciphrer's Tracker is the equivalent of Bacde's WATCHER, my friend. I promise you Bacde IS the Wulden spy in the Undead PT. Of course, they maybe Undead by race, but Bacde IS a member of the Wulden Faction.

[Almost50]

So you're wanting to lynch me over the confirmed Wulden because.....................

Because Bacde can be killed by night, after we get rid of the redirector: YOU!

[Almost50]

It does help me a LOT, Tim. Please do elaborate. Thank you.

[Almost50]

vote almost50

For he stupid ass tired "confirmed wulden" stuff

Dude if I was a confirmed wulden I'd be lynched by now

Even more confirmation. I'd have claimed my night results if I was you.

[Almost50]

If there's a Faction checker, check A50.

I believe A50's 1-Shot PGO claim. What else explains all those deaths that one Night? If his PGO affected checker abilities it makes a hell of a lot of sense.

Is LLD still alive? Didn't she claim Wulden?

3 confirmed human champions (1 dead), another champion implied, 2 scum factions.

Human champion kills resolve on any non-humans they target. Look how many non-humans died. There was 2 strongman alive. That's 5 NK's with no PGO needed. He also didn't claim 1-shot PGO iirc.

I just LOVE how cornered scum sink themselves deeper and deeper. We had the 5 kills on N2. Titus was killed on N1. Unless you believe her GHOST was roaming the lands and killed someone on N2, I don't think you're making any sense at all!

[Almost50]

Guys ASOIAF also gives the same Race Result as the Cult Leader (Other) but they aren't Cult, I swear!

Cult starts with ONE person: The Leader. Being non-Human (and especially giving "other" for race) proves ABSOLUTELY NOTHING about them being culted. It only tells us they cannot/could not have been recruited by any other scum faction.

[Almost50]

There's 2 human champions, and there might be 'other' champions. That's 3 champions.

OK.. so.. based on the quoted.. how does ASoIaF claiming 'other' champion make them scum again??

[Almost50]

We can do this for the next 20 days, and then I will get you lynched on D21 and get the town the win. Go on.. entertain me!

[Almost50]

Tim?? Where did you go, mate? I need that explanation like.. pretty desperately. Are you crumbing/claiming Northern Faction Champion?

[Almost50]

I can't wait for Nero to come on line to finish this.

Bacde has yet to claim their night action results. WHAT are they waiting for?? I'll tell you: Waiting to see which FAKE claim fits best. rb redirected someone's action, and Bacde tried to shoot No Retreat, but Toog protected No Retreat, so they're conspiring together in their PT on what to claim and whom to blame it on. That is because claiming the wrong person leads to a bad lynch that will expose Bacde no matter what.

Hint for you guys: You can always pin it on ANYONE and when they flip claim that Bacde was redirected. HOWEVER, you need to make sure you stick it to someone who DOES have a night action, because even with the redirection; Bacde could not see someone visiting No Retreat when that someone does not have a visiting action to begin with

@Tim:

Thank you. Also, it's the NORTH Champion that is blank. Titus already flipped as the West Champion.

[Almost50]

@ASoIaF:

Sorry to bother you again, but you're confusing me.

At the top of your role pm, you have ("flavour name" wrote:). Then at the bottom you have: You give the home Nation result of ???.
You give the Location result of ???.
You give the Race result of ???.
You win when ?????

You may willingly claim the flavour name if you like, but I need the exact wording of the "You give the Race result of ???."

Does the "???" say "other" or "Hybrid"??

[Almost50]

Tatiana Ruffins

Scum are given fake claims upon request. You have let your chance slip, my friend. I've been trying to reason with you since the thread got unlocked, but your refusal to cooperate and trying to mislead the town is too much for me to take.

BTW, just a friendly advise: You can neither lynch nor kill me today, and that is a FACT!

[Almost50]

Back to you, Tim (sorry. This rb issue is getting in the way).

So, you're HUMAN (race) but you're a non-Human Faction Champ?? Don't you think that's a bit weird? I mean, if you started out as a Human then got recruited you could not be their Champion. If you started out AS the Champion, then you were/are not Human to begin with.

[Almost50]

Do you have a race check for us TWIE?

^^
THIS. I second that notion.

@rb:

Did I get one?? NO. I don't think I did. All I got is some name that could not even be confirmed. I need to know your FACTION, and your NATION as well as your LOCATION to have anything to TRY to make it work for you as town. A name is just a name, you know.

[Almost50]

@Tim:

Hold on.. I'll be right there. Just checking something.

[Almost50]

@Wake:

Please put rb @L-1. Let's see if that would make him reconsider. If not, I'm sure DGB can hammer scum who won't claim bc they know if they do it will blow their cover.

Btw, if No Retreat so wishes I CAN fully claim. I am fully at your disposal, mate.

Hmmmm.. I was typing a lengthy explanation of my deductions and process of thought, but it's now getting too interesting I think that could wait.

So, we have 2 flipped Individual Humans, and we have THREE alive?? Does either of you want to change their claim?? Seriously!

UNVOTE:

[Almost50]

So, Tim: You're a Human from the WESTERN EMPIRE (nation) and Great Ridge (location) affiliated with the Individual Humans Faction.

Fire: You're Other (race) from Other (location) and Western Empire (nation) affiliated with the Individual Humans Faction.

rb: You're Other (nation) and Erimos (location). You're Human but you investigate as Wulden, and also affiliated with the Individual Humans Faction.

If I've got anything wrong there please correct me.

[Almost50]

Ok, now I'm leaning Tim is fake claiming, but I need someone else to think it over with me.

NERO? WHERE ART THEE? Remember when you asked me to claim in your first post so that you can tell me how to play it right?

Consider this me asking for your directions, mate.

Like, if ONE of them is fake claiming, I don't think it would be "Other" for race to start with. That certainly isn't a fake claim Mastin would give someone to try and escape from the rope.

In fact, it's most like Tim. He started the day voting ASoIaF off the bat, basing it on Nos visiting her on N1. Cool, but what's with the assertion that ASoIaF is NOT the "other" town vig "specifically"? How does he know that for starters?

Then his "cannot be culted" attempt to crumb a Champion, but when that failed he took it back and claimed. And then he claims to have checked people who have all been dead, and the last one was Heartless who turned up dead last night!! Seems like the safest way to avoid claiming a clear on someone who's not.

It's Tim that I'm voting here, but I STILL WANT NIGHT ACTION RESULTS from BACDE AND TWIE.

VOTE: Tim

[Almost50]

Also, why claim your RACE, but not your NATION?? Because there's a fake claim that flipped that says you can choose between a few options. Let me go fetch it.

[Almost50]

Yep.. there it is ... major parts chopped off the flavour, but essentially check the fake claim for Nation & Location. That was "use your best judgement" kind of tip for both. THAT -ladies & gentlemen- was a WULDEN flip.

Mathblade, who was

Dmitri Damanos, Wulden Big Bad/Ninja/Bulletproof/Champion

, has died N3.

Yadda yadda yadda .. bla bla bla...

Most recently, you killed a general hailing from The Great Ridge, Aries Gratian, and have decided that momentarily, this shall serve as a convenient alias.

Role

You are

Dmitri Damanos, Wulden Big Bad/Bulletproof/Ninja

.

[REDACTED - FACTIONAL]

In addition to the above, you hold the following

personal abilities

:

1. FACTIONAL CHAMPION
   : You are considered the
   Champion
   of the Wuldens. Your fellow wuldens
   cannot control your night actions
   ; they must be submitted by you.
2. You are immune to nightkills.
3. If you are the one making the nightkill, it cannot be observed by any method.
4. During pregame, you may select either "location" or "nation". Each night, in addition to any night action you perform, you may investigate a player and learn whichever you selected in pregame.
5. As you are the big bad of Gistou, it would be inadvisable to claim your name. You have been given a fakeclaim,
   Aries Gratian
   :

   Riding your horse faithfully, location to location, you drift. Once a proud general of the western empire, with the revolver to prove it, now you're nothing. Dmitri Damanos took everything from you. And you want revenge. You once held such great national pride, yet now...
   
   ...Now you don't care. You want all those supernatural bastards dead. Maybe they don't

   all

   deserve it. You've personally worked with some hunters who were affable enough. But how do you know it wasn't all an act? You have no way of knowing. Rather safe than sorry. In this new land, in this blasted Gistou, all a man can do is fend for himself. Factional pride is great and all, but while you loosely support a good cause, what might be called the greater good, you don't consider yourself a devoted soldier of the human alliance.
   
   You will fight for them, and if necessary, you'll even die for them. But you will work on your own, because you need to prove to yourself that your life means something.
   Aries's

   role

   was

   X-shot bulletproof

   . The number of shots is your choice. His vest protected against

   all

   nightkills, and would only be triggered when absolutely needed. He would be informed of when he had used a vest.
   Aries's home

   Nation

   is your choice. 'Other' or 'West Empire' recommended.
   Aries's home

   Location

   is your choice. 'Other', 'Erimos', or 'Great Ridge' recommended.
   Aries's

   Race

   was

   Human

   .
   Aries's factional wincon was as follows: You win when all threats to

   the

   Individual Humans

   faction

   have been eliminated.

You give the home

Nation

result of

Other

.
You give the

Location

result of

Great Ridge

.
You give the

Race

result of

Wulden

.

You win if all

nosferatu

are dead, and the

Wulden Faction

controls 50% of the town, or nothing could prevent this.

[Almost50]

From that flip:

Nation is your choice. 'Other' or 'West Empire' recommended. (Tim picked West Empire)
Location is your choice. 'Other', 'Erimos', or 'Great Ridge' recommended. (Tim picked Great Ridge)
You win when all threats to the Individual Humans faction have been eliminated. (So he picked Individual Humans).

99.99% Tim's a Wulden using a mod-provided fake claim here!

[Almost50]

Btw.. that was just a little part of why I wanted claims. I have an excel sheet with almost all info and probabilities and stuff that I have been staring at for DAYS while I did my reread, trying to figure out who might be what and why someone might not be a certain faction.

I do have a lot of other info that I'm still keeping for myself to catch scum off guard as they claim (or rather FAKE claim). It will help me GREATLY if TWIE, davesaz & Expedience claimed their respective Locations/Nations if not their Factions outright.

I'd also suggest our priority is to get the Wuldens bc I think the Cult are now helpless with their Leader dead.

[Almost50]

No Retreat's nation is East Kingdom.

Yep, they're confirmed town. Please do vote Tim (or rather read through the day posts and see if you can come up with an argument against that lynch).

[Almost50]

Are you all caught up now, Nero? If so, what do you think of the case on Tim, and especially so regarding the fake claim and it being similar to the fake claim previously provided to Math?

[Almost50]

OK, since Town are obviously playing some other game:

I think we might have started with 4 Isolationists, 4 Wuldens & 1 Cult for Scum. 4 Undead for Survivours (win with the Human Treaty means when one of either sides win + one of them must survive = Survivour role). That's 13 non-town aligned vs 15 TOWN (Mastina's guarantee for town to have the majority at the start of the game).

That would probably be 3 of each of The West, East & North faction & 4 of the Individual Humans (that's why their killing role is passive rather than active, and why they have a negative utility .. i.e. miller), plus an individual Vampire and an individual Nosferatu (also tricky bc Isolationists are mainly Nosferatu, so one Nosferatu as town vs one Vampire being scum to cause more confusion for town Race Cops.)

And in case some of you STILL won't get it, 3 Northern Individuals: Heartless already flipped, Wake got recruited, and the 3rd one is ME: Adrian Burkhard.

On N1 I targeted BBMolla with my kill. He was Human though, so when he flipped I had to double check with Mastina to verify I used the correct action. In short, I didn't kill him (but I suspect Isolationists did bc he said he was “non-Human from the West” which translates as WULDEN).

On N2 I believe I killed Cephrir.

On N3 I targeted Nos and he didn't die; leading me to believe he was Human. Now I see he had a passive immunity on that night according to his role PM.

On N4 I believe I killed Toogeloo as I was targeting RachMarie and she didn't die despite her acknowledging not being Human. That or I may have been Roleblocked.

So, when someone who doesn't want to use that tool inside their skull to decide where I'm coming from: Yes, I did fake a PGO claim to deter NKs so far. It worked thus far.

I said I won't be lynched bc I could claim anytime and that would stop the lynch bc I believe we're still in control. I won't be killed either bc I still have my 1-shot Bullet Proof (that I got night one bc Titus died) intact, and both strongmen are already dead.

I'll resign to bed now while you guys try to work it out between yourselves.

We started with 7 of each nation (East, West, North and Other). and All 3 bad Nosferatu where from the North (which does go with the freaking flavour, to those who thought flavour means nothing!). The 4th Isolationist was a Vampire AND from West.

As for the Wulden, they should be from the West (as per the flavour), but with those already flipped I think they might be from Other nation (making it 3 Other .. which is SOUTH of the map + 1 West).

The Map (according to flavour):

Erimos - North - Other
West - Lake - East
Ridge - ???? - Divitias

The ??? (south) is where "Other Nations" come from. The "Other" to the North East is a Location.

Undead are from the East (mostly), Wuldens are supposedly Western (but as I explained would likely be Other Nation) and Nosferatu are from the North.

Northerners come from Erimos, Other or Lake (again, mostly). Easterners are from the Divitias or Other, while Westerners are from The Ridgge or Erimos.

If anybody's interested they can make a table of players with Race, Location, Nation and Faction columns .. or can do it as a map and mark the flips of the dead and claims of the living players and compare to try and figure it out.

My vote stays on Tim for the time being until someone -somehow- manages to give a better argument.

Good Night.

[Almost50]

Anyway like I said I'm human. Don't lynch me today.

If Nero wants to NK me with his vig powers, that's fine. It won't resolve because his kill works on non-humans only, A50 can do it as well if he wants. Even if I'm redirector, I can't redirect both of you. Lynch Song today, try and NK me tonight. When it fails, you can both understand that I'm human and a miller.

OK, this (ignoring Tim's case completely) tells me Tim is a Wulden and you, Sir, are a Human who got Wuldened. That leaves one more "original" Wulden and I'm still adamant it's Bacde.

But that's COOL. There are 9 Town players alive it seems, and the Wuldens have already used up their recruit shot.

So, We lynch Tim, vig both rb & Bacde and end the game in a Town Victory.

I hope it's clear now why I wanted more claims, more info to try and get the table fit with alignments.

[Almost50]

reading her answer I guess I'm classified as other and I was in game as a racial miller.

If no one is CC'ing my racial miller beside this obvious lier or my not-human individual human championship and you all are blind enough to not read titus role and the fact 2 godfather / 3 vig and so many different races with mastin pointing all the time : race != faction

Come on. yes my claim is weird . Its true. Its all over this fucking place. read the clues with me and interact with me please >.>

From where I stand I do believe you, but I don't even see a problem here. We could kill all 3 of you and the Individual Human Faction would still win with the Town. By definition (and as Mastina had explained already) the Town Faction do win even if exterminated, as long as their win con is completed.

[Almost50]

Frozen, we should be voting Rb, what you doing >.>

VOTE: Rb

~Fire

Tim is the "source". rb is a Wuldened Human. You lynch the redirector first and then the others are sitting ducks.

[Almost50]

If you're a PGO, why didn't you distrust Almost50's claim?

We should wait to hear Bacde's results.

You still haven't claimed much yourself. I guess it's obvious at this point that the more info the TOWN has the better. We're down to 12 and scum already know most of it. Thank you.

[Almost50]

In conclusion, vampires and undead cannot breed because they are sterile.

Where'd you get that? I mean, Mastina explicitly said BOTH can reproduce. Furthermore, they ARE parts of Wuldens and Nosferatus respectively.

[Almost50]

Basically, we have me, No Retreat, Rach & Wake as confirmed Townies.
We have Tim, rb, ASoIaF & Bacde as highly suspect.
Scum have one NK (possibly two), and Town has 2 NKs and a RB.
We lynch Tim, shoot rb and ASoIaF, and block Bacde.
If the game doesn't end we lynch Bacde.

P.S. If Tim is NOT the redirector, one of rb/ASoIaF will survive, and Rach may end up dead instead. No problem though as she still wins with town and Wake is still there to carry on too. It just adds one more night, since we need to lynch the one who survived and if the game doesn't end instantly we shoot Bacde at night.

Can we please agree on that plan? Lynch Tim, I will shoot rb, No Retreat shoot ASoIaF (or vise versa if you like) and see if the game already ends in our victory.

[Almost50]

Almsot 50 this is going to be my last mafia game

(at least for a long time)

~Ice

Can we talk about this privately after the game?? PLEASE? My "Mafia Wolrd" will never be the same w/o you, and you -of all- know that to be true. You're my "mafia twin" ever since we started playing. It felt like we were born on the same day when we both started playing mafia in the same game, so please let's just talk about it later 9i.e. be available online for me to talk to you). THANK YOU.

[Almost50]

if he saw me visitng RAM then why the he double hockey stick did he keep staying I visited Luna

And yeah I have thought for a while that RAM killed Luna I have felt very guilty that I did not both check and block him

He targeted Luna. He got redirected to RAM. He saw you targeting his target. He thought you targeted Luna (his original target), but he -in fact- was watching RAM (redirected to him). He got "You TARGET got visited by Rach" and didn't expect it to be a redirection, so in his mind you visited Luna.

[Almost50]

So, Rach.. are you strong-willed all over or is it just your check? I mean, could your roleblock be redirected or not?

[Almost50]

My role block is strong though I am not sure it would stand up to a strong man one.

Plus I think if I had checked on dimitri I might have died, but not positive on that its just so much of the flavor was about me trying to hunt him down and finish him off and failing miserably

so not sure how much is flavor and how much is game mechanic on that one.

Okie dokie...

No, strongman still beats you. Strongman bypasses all protection. Stong will = your action resolves first. So, you cannot be redirected or blocked, but you're no good at stopping a strongman still.

The reason I asked is bc you will need to RB someone tonight, and I wanted to make sure that your RB cannot be messed with.

[Almost50]

OK, generally speaking Cults do NOT have a FACTIONAL kill. That would be "Cultafia". It is also usually the case that when a killing role is culted they lose their ability to kill.

Also, Cults cannot cult w/o their leader. Only the leader can cult someone. Sometimes cults will commit suicide when the leader is dead, and sometimes they don't.

The reason I no longer wish to lynch rb first is bc he had always crumbed an Individual Human since the game started. It COULD have been him using his fake claim from the word go, but I'm leaning more towards him starting the game as an individual Human.

But hold on a second:

dave: Please do claim your faction & location. This is VERY VERY IMPORTANT at this point.

[Almost50]

Bacde, we're lynching rb because he claimed a wulden race miller (comes up as wulden when he's actually human) on d5, but he was checked on n1 as a human. So he was probably human who got recruited to wulden.

He has never addressed this, just spewing the same confidence nonsense.

Why lynch the recruitED and not the recruitER??

[Almost50]

I mean, that IS my point. We lynch the REDIRECTOR first, then we lynch the Human who got Wuldened.

[Almost50]

I don't know who is scum other than rb but it's a good chance that some people are.

I'm supporting lynching the scum we are most sure about in case the vig shots fail. Furthermore, rb wants to be shot so maybe he's bulletproof or something. It's not a huge deal but I can see a scenario in which asoiaf is town, I can see no scenario in which rb is town.

I don't think there is any evidence to suggest another redirector because No Retreat's shot went through on Nosferatu.

1- rb cannot be redirector based on the assumption he was HUMAN who got Wuldened.

2- He "could" be BP, but we can always lynch him tomorrow if that's the case.

3- A vig shot cannot fail if we do lynch the redirector. THAT is out biggest problem now. Get rid of the redirector and all shots and investigations will hit their intended targets.

4- Tim stating he will target ASoIaF is also bugging me. He is hinting he has a PR that's not a killing role, but it could be that he's gambiting so that we would think twice before vigging him.

rb -on the other hand- claimed he had no active role (he would be caught in an outright lie if he had one, so I'm inclined to believe that bit). He cannot turn himself into a PGO by targeting ASoIaF at night, so -at least- one of the Vigs will survive (one could be killed by scum, but the other cannot also be dead due to PGO action).

Think about it. We need to protect our own PRs just as much as we need to hunt down for the remaining scum.

[Almost50]

For someone so interested in my lynch you sure seem not to be able read my posts

Everybody's saying something and a few are even evading answers too. It's confusing, and I'm paranoid. You may as well make it easy for everybody and claim your role and stuff.

As for the redirector, there's no lying involved. RAM did flip a redirector, so the Wuldens do have a redirector like 90%.

As it satnds, 2 Individual Humans dead + 3 alive simply does not compute. We know there were 3 Northern Tribes Faction members at the start of the game (Me, Heartless & Wake) and thus there has to be 3 starters from each of the other 2 "non-individual" Humnan Factions.

Titus is the one flipped Westerner, so we have 2 alive who started as Western. No Retreat is Eastern, and we have 2 alive who started as Eastern. They may have been converted, granted, but that's another matter.

We have Me, No Retreat as 100% confirmed identities, and we we have Rach as the most likely confirmed of the rest bc her claim fits everything, including her role.

I can confrim rb started as an Individual Human, but I cannot tell 100% if he was converted.

Now dave, DGB & TWIE are the 3 who have yet to claim their factions, but even if they do we still need one more started as either West or East (depending on their claims).

Then we need ROLES to be claimed too, as well as other details like Nation & Location for the game to be solved. I need Expedience -for example- to claim his role, as well as Tim, TWIE & DGB.

Until such details are on the table, I will hold on to the most probable solution I have based on the existing data. I may change my mind based on further claims being provided, so -if you're town- you need to provide your own detaiols and pressure those who have yet to give theirs to provide them too.

[Almost50]

Actually just thinking about it again, unless bacde left a redirector out of his watch result, that redirector should have shown up along with Nos visiting RAM

That is not true. The redirector targeted Bacde and Bacde's action is the one affected. Whom they directed it to doesn't matter and would not appear in the Watch results (otherwise every watcher/tracker would know if they were redirected bc the redirector's name will always appear in their reports).

To make it even more clear; if RAM was a PGO, would the redirector have been dead? Obviously not, as they did not target RAM directly.

[Almost50]

can someone remind me if rach claimed her race?

Nosferatu of the Individual Nosferatu Faction.

[Almost50]

Just come out and say it A50 instead of dancing around the edges, you are asking for full mass claims

That's absolutely true. I think a mass claim is the way to go right now, because there's not much room fro scum to hide anymore. That and the fact the stronger Town PRs are outed already, so scum are hiding in the minority of those who have yet to claim. There's not even a reason for someone to fear being NK'd or RB'd or redirected, bc.. let's face it: What scum would direct "something else" and leave two Town Vigs and a Town RB alive and not redirected.

And -even assuming they do- that would be most pro-town play. Claim and take a bullet for the town to save a Town Vig/RB. It doesn't make sense for anyone to stay in the shadows now.

[Almost50]

Oh! That ORACLE bit is all that I needed.

VOTE: rb

[Almost50]

Also Rach can block ANYONE she sees fit to. IF rb flips "Town" though I'd recommend blocking Expedience for now.

[Almost50]

A50 admitted she shot me, toog is dead and I am here

Elementary, my dear nero

I visited you last night bc I had visited Nosferatu the night before and he didn't die, leading me to believe he was Town. Now I know he WAS scum and why he didn't die.

Scum may want you dead, but they also want both myself and No Retreat even more, besides, even if you end up dead your block resolves first, so Expedience will still be blocked anyway.

That being said, I'm glad No Retreat is here to post and discuss more. I'm sure between the three of us we can organize our moves and actions better.

[Almost50]

I really really hope a50 didn't target me.

I did not, and I will not. This is part of why I was so careful picking my targets and thus having not ended up killing someone each night. I don't even think we are considered threats to each other, simply because the wording of the PM says "all threats to the XX FACTION" as a win con. You are NOT a threat to the Northern Tribes as a whole, just me. Also, it says that all 3 nations and champions have united, so the killing each other is just a negative utility, not a goal for me to achieve.

[Almost50]

I also sorta wanna policy lynch/vig Bcade. I mean there is a line of thought that says he's town b/c instead of taking orders and being a good little townie he did what he wanted and was like "fuck being useful" but then if he was scum and he targeted me he'd have to out scum since I (or even others) where 99% more likely to be targeted.

Mate, do NOT answer this, but check your PM at the start of the day. If you lost your BP cover then you were targeted. If not, then you were not. If you check the role PM you'd see the BP is activated BEFORE any other protection, so unless you've been hit before, Toog would not have died protecting you from a single attempt on your life. Your BP should have absorbed it first.

[Almost50]

I do have mine intact, btw.. so no need for any protective role to be on me tonight.

[Almost50]

im a race checker.

i claimed that already.

yes, but what FACTION are you? And what of your Nation/Location?

[Almost50]

i know but what faction are you in etc?

I feel like i know (or think i know) of 2 of the factional recruits being used.

did i miss something?

or should we narrow the pool of potential humans to exact size?

There is literally nothing beneficial to hide any info now. Tell us all about your info (personal or acquired) as well as your reads, expectations .. etc.

[Almost50]

I claimed my faction.

Oh, Ok. I'll change my claim then: I'm an Individual Human. No Retreat can willingly claim Individual Human too.

So SIX Individual Humans started the game??? Somehow I find this IMPOSSIBLE.

[Almost50]

oh ALSO

@ASOFAI

I DID TARGET YOU LAST NIGHT. TELL ME WHAT THAT MEANS.

Thats good

no scum will dare to touch you again

I wastrying to find the heartless kill source when I asked that question

^^^^THIS!! Very much this. This is why ASoIaF is the least worry of mine.

Now let's assume they're lying (just for the sake of argument). If No Retreat ends up dead and NOT PGO'ized; ASoIaF is doomed. Not the smartest thing to do if you're scum. That's why I'm NOT willing to vote ASoIaF anytime soon.

[Almost50]

i can vouch that Wake was northern human before I jacked him as he called it in the PT

I'm not worried about you or Wake anymore. The last of my worries vanished with Nosferatu's flip. My problem with you was the fear of the Cult thing, and I did visit Nos and he didn't die so it brought you back to focus. Now that we know Nos was the cult leader you are clear in my book.

[Almost50]

It's refusing to accept all these claims telling me they're contradictory. At least 2, maybe even 3 of the Individual Human claims are fake.

[Almost50]

Why are you assuming proof of role = proof of alignment, especially for a probable cultist? I don't see you extending that same logic to bacde, so why do it for ASoIAF?

First, it's not "just" the role confirmation. It's the fact they put themselves in a lynchable position.

Second, yes.. the role confirmation makes it fit. That role does rhyme with other claims and flips.

Third, you're not reading. Ask Bacde what my stance on him is and he will tell you. I'm just not seeing him as a priority, as he is NOT the redirector.

Neither twie, dgb, nor davesaz need to claim anything today really, when we're Lynching rb.

THIS is very scummy a statement. Both confirmed Champions are asking for claims, so I don't see where you're coming from or what gives you the authority to decide what we need or don't need.

Speaking of, I'm pretty ok with the day ending. I don't think there's much more to say.

That's even more scummy, when No Retreat and ASoIaF have both asked for more time to post and you want to rush the day.

UNVOTE:

I'm not lynching anyone until No Retreat says they're ready to end the day.

[Almost50]

How is it fitting that they claim non-human when we can only kill non-humans?

[Almost50]

I think it "might be" that rb is the last Isolationist (recruited). Tim & Expedience are Wuldens (don't which is the original and which the recruit). Shadows of doubt about Bacde, davesaz & TWIE all to a lesser degree.

[Almost50]

@Tim:

You are doing some nice posting and all, but here's my problem. Following your propositions; are you telling me the Eastern Kingdom started with their Champion as the one and only member of their faction???

I mean, seriously. We had no Eastern Kingdom flips thus far, and we agree Bacde isn't Eastern (even by his own admission). I'm a Northerner, Rach is an individual Nosferatu and Wake was another Northerner who got recruited.

You're proposing TWIE to be an individual Lyacn (!!) and accepting Expedience to be an individual Undead. You're claiming Individual Human yourself.

ASoIaF, rb & DGB could not have started as Eastern Kingdom to begin with (given their nation/Location combinations), so that leaves davesaz as the one and only possible player who could've been originally an Easterm Kingdom faction member.

HOWEVER, even if we assume that this is the case, that would be just No Retreat and davesaz for the Eastern Kingdom, when we know the Northern Tribes started with 3 members.

Your claim to be an Individual Human who has West for Nation and Great Rifdge for location is highly suspicious bc we already had an Individual Human flipping with these details, and if your argument is "why can't there be two?" then I would play the card that also a WULDEN flipped with the same details, so "why can't there be two?" applies.

That is why I've been closely following the map of Nation/Location claims/flips and comparing them to faction claims/flips.

[Almost50]

only one player was starting as western kingdom almost thats the wrong aproach. numbers mean nothing here

No. THREE started as Western, one got recruited and one died already. Also THREE started as Eastern, I'm almost sure of it. The question is whether we started with 3 or four Individual Humans.

[Almost50]

@Almost

I still don't exactly trust Bcade 'cause he came in an voted for dead scum and I think that was scum trying to fake a derp tell. Him not targeting me last night was also odd but I'm willing to let it right.

How do you feel about DGB? I think she's lurking and useless so I kinda wanna vig that. I held off b/c Heartless wanted me to but I don't get why they thought she was towny.

I still don't trust Exp, as he could have been easily culted and a him/RB team makes some sense. I kinda feel like the reason he wanted me outted so badly is 'cause he tried to cult me and it didn't work. What do you think of him?

You know we could just randomly shoot anyone that's not us and the masons and prob win.


12. davesaz
15. Tim (Iecerint + ActionDan)
17. A Song of Ice and Fire (Frozen Angel + Firebringer)
------------------------------------------------------------------
23. Expedience
25. TheWayItEnds
26. DrippingGoofball

you take the top half and I'll take the bottom?

I still think DGB is Town myself, and her Western Empire claim coincides with my expectations from the data sheet.

Expedience could be scum, yes, and rb is likely scum too, but they're NOT on the same team (unless they played it the way SS did with WT).

I'm leaning towards Bacde being Undead in the Wulden Faction too.

ASoIaF is likely Town, or -at least- is not a prime suspect of mine.

I keep coming and going on Tim. Some of his arguments/claims make sense, others don't.

[Almost50]

ok, you ready to end the day?

yeah, no problem.

VOTE: rb

[Almost50]

I would like to know from A50 who he shot.

DID YOU KILL MY BUDDY?

LOL, no. I shot davesaz and I "think" No Retreat shot Expedience as per the plan.

[Almost50]

hmmm if that is so why is Nero not dead?

1- It may have been a protection action not a kill
2- IF it was a kill, DGB is soooo caught red handed. Myself and No Retreat have a 1-shot BP because Titus is dead (read her role PM. Each of the 3 Champions gains a 1-shot BP with the death of another, and we are notified if it gets used).

So, if DGB tried to kill No Retreat they will be told they lost their BP, and DGB eats the rope on the spot.

[Almost50]

In fact, it could NOT be a kill attempt. We already have a third kill, so that's out of the window. It was either a protection or a Cult attempt. If the latter, that was REALLY bad play, bc we -the champions- cannot be recruited by any other faction.

We know Wuldens can't recruit anymore, and I'm not even sure the Cult can recruit with their leader already dead (I've never before seen a culting ability being passed from the leader to another player), but I'll keep that option open.

[Almost50]

OK, DGB & Tim could've been culted (or one of them...) *Shrug*

Bacde could still be a Wulden and TWIE may have been Wuldened.

Checking the voting patterns of the previous day, both DGB & Tim voted rb, but not Bacde not TWIE. Bacde was siding by rb voting for me earlier on that day. Bacde IS the last "original" Wulden.

However, DGB & "probably" Tim voting rb may have been due to rb having been targeted by either of them in a failed attempt to cult him. I suggest the cult does not work on someone who has already changed their alignment once in the game (and thus the Wulden kill on Wake was most stupid).

Unless DGB can provide a good reason for targeting No retreat last night with both an action and a check, I'm down to lynching her. Lynching Cult takes precedence in my book over lynching Wulden at this time.

P-edit:

LOL. I presumed "a threat to your faction" = direct scum. "could be a threat" = could be recruited by scum. "Not a threat" = CANNOT be recruited by scum. Expedience had a way to tell who the Human Champions were, I suppose.

[Almost50]

so yeah bacde is undead unless he has been culted since I checked him,

Undead by race, but could still be Wulden by faction. Remember: a Vampire was an Isolationist and a Lycan was in the Wulden faction (and then they got culted too) LOL

[Almost50]

Bacde can be culted as well

stop ignoring possibilities. dave flip shows even not humans can get culted.

Bacde provided a watcher report of last night, so I highly doubt he got Culted.

[Almost50]

Bacde is more likely to be straight up wulden than culted. But actually I lean more towards TWIE for being wulden since I think Wulden needs a Race checker like all the other converting factions sans individual undead (who had a cop power). Also RB's lynch in retrospect seemed like he was eager to take a fall with the whole "I'm a wulden miller" spiel.

I can see this as a possibility, but I also have a counter argument: TWIE is EAST (nation) and the only one remaining who could've started as an Eastern Kingdom Faction member alongside No Retreat.

[Almost50]

Tim is Wulden

How do you know

That was CUTE!!

[Almost50]

Got coffee now so hopefully I can get brain functioning again.

Rach, why do I feel like I'm talking to a coffee TANKER??

You consume more coffee than an entire medium-sized country, it seems.

[Almost50]

we will wait for No retreat.

I STRONGLY second this notion.

[Almost50]

IF the game is really over, then I guess Bacde deserves a standing ovation for carrying his team over to the end. Of course, great game by many others, but I mean.. Bacde needed to end game and his entire team was wiped out early. You fought well, my friend.

[Almost50]

if the game isn't over what do you want to do Almost?

I think one of us can target ASoIaF (and thus become for the night PGO) and the other can target Bacde. *Shrug*

.. or maybe DGB? I mean, we're talking hypothetically assuming the game does NOT end. We would be looking for one more cultist I suppose.

[Almost50]

If the game didn't finish

shoot me and bacde

You are .. AWESOME!

[Almost50]

I claimed pgoizer to get vigged.

like holy fuck why you cant understand it.

I basically invited you all to just SHOOT me

My main concern was to actually kill SCUM, so even if I had got it (and I didn't) I still would not have vigged you over dave/Tim. I decided to go for dave bc NR had put them at the top on the 3 assigned to me, AND bc I believed your PGOizer claim and Tim already said he would be targeting you.

[Almost50]

@Frozen:

Just pre-in me in your next modded game, alright? If I can't play with you I can at least play under your moderation.

[Almost50]

I have no idea what this new event would mean. Here's what I "personally" know:

I'm Human and can't be recruited by any other faction.
No Retreat is also cannot be recruited by any other faction.
DGB is still Human and from the West Empire faction.

I also lost my shield last night, and I don't know why. I can't see anything in ASoIaF's PMs (original or new) that points out a PGO/Bomb effect.

I'll wait for No Retreat to tell me what they think.

[Almost50]

also anything that prevents Bacde and Exp from a win is a good thing.

I'm afraid we have no control over that anymore. Bacde lost bc all their faction has been eliminated and they needed one member to stay alive for them to win.

Expedience won, bc his win con only requires threats to his faction eliminated and doesn't require him to stay alive (just like yours, mine & DGB's win cons).

Judging by the phrasing of my night PM (the long flavour story) I'm inclined to think the treaty thing was triggered by the elimination of all scum indeed, and that it's time for us all to end the war.

Rach's win con is to eliminate all threat to the Human Treaty. According to TWIE his is to eliminate threats to the Individual Humans (i.e. just like yours, mine and DGB).

This further leads me to believe the treaty secures the win for all pro-town factions + the Individual Nosferatu (who were survivours like the Undead, thus had to have one still alive).

[Almost50]

my pm has nothing about the treaty. Almost does your role pm talk about the treaty?

Not explicitly, no. It just says we're tired of fighting, and then tells me someone from the West sacrificed themselves for me (i.e. that was the BP) while I was fighting ASoIaF, and then I was told a messenger from the West confirmed DGB's location and alignment (with details, including their name), so that's a friendly neighbour role.

[Almost50]

I don't think rejecting the treaty makes the town lose per se, but it results in unnecessary fighting to go on longer. I mean, the way

I

see it, it's either we all get along and end the war, or we continue fighting until there's only ONE eventual winner.

We HAVE eradicated the enemy, so I'm in favour of ending the war now bc I'm not interested in killing the remaining players.

[Almost50]

the whole idea that this is just a moral choice seems a little odd to me. I don't really like how Rach was fear mongering and pressure pointing us into trying to ratify the treaty. I also don't think its impossible that humans might lose if we ratify. Do you think its possible that ratifying the treaty has any negative implications?

Nope. Here's what I think:

Assuming TWIE has no killing abilities, REJECTING the treaty will force us to play for -at least- 2 more days, and you probably will end up being the last man standing. Now what I'm not sure of is whether this will be in vain (i.e. we're just complicating things for ourselves to get to the same outcome), or if that would change our win cons (to match a last man standing situation).

I don't see how making peace could backfire on Humans at this point.

[Almost50]

Why do you think you were the only one sent that pm?

I'd stick out my neck and say it was bc Rach is the only one with that "new humanity treaty" thing explicitly mentioned in her role PM.

[Almost50]

I think I'm ready to sign the treaty on behalf on my clan.

VOTE: Rectify

The Northern Tribes officially support putting this blood shed to an end.

P-edit:

Expedience WINS. His win con says NOTHING about other Undead. He was one in his own faction, just like Kuroi was, and THEIR win cons have been met.

[Almost50]

VOTE: Ratify

[Almost50]

#

A

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L

F

A

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I

O

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A

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Aren't you DEAD???

[Almost50]

Well, first and foremost: I can't even begin to describe how delightful this game was both concerning setup & mechanics AND flavour.

I can only say this:

@Mastin:

Pre-In me in ANY AND ALL your future larges.

[Almost50]

Funny how the night action went. I laughed a lot at DGB choices. Not only did she pick Isolationists on the first 2 nights, but the farce is they both died on the same night.

[Almost50]

@Frozen:

Why would anyone "strongman" target a PGO? Why sacrifice the strongman?? A PGO would NOT survive a simple NK, but will take down their killer with them.

I claimed PGO for 2 reasons:

1- Make the scum think twice before trying to kill me. They would have had to assume it was a 1-for-1 trade, so this bought me a couple of nights.

2- Deter the two TOWN champions from visiting me at night as well. I didn't want to die on the hands of my allies.

Fortunately (and w/o me knowing it at the time) this instantly earned me a town read from specifically the other 2 champs, so yeah.. that went well.

I also was VERY careful picking whom I'd target with a NK, bc I didn't want to kill the other Champions either. Titus going down early was bad, but then I earned a BP and I could safely target anyone from the West as well.

[Almost50]

Gotta target the right person to get a guilty.
Gotta leave PRs alive for them to drive guilties.
Gotta not have the multiball factions muddying the waters with fakeguilties either.

This post gets a golden star from me.

[Almost50]

Also funny how the two who gave me more headache were the two Vanillas (Wake & rb), and that both Heartless and Wake (my own faction members) didn't trust me on D1. I mean, I received more heat from my own faction members than from all other players combined (with the exception of rb).

Many players did well, I'd say. Rach not only contributed to the town win greatly, but almost single handed carried her faction AND the Undead with it. BRILLIANT steering.

No Retreat picked their targets well (with the exception of that N1 kill on Titus).

And even Luna helped a lot with that N1 check on SS.

DGB's day play is super. Imagine that I town read that slot since she subbed in, when I actually was distrusting almost everyone!!

[Almost50]

You had 9 conftown players , 8 investigatives , 3 vigs (counted in conftowns as well) , 1 blocker , 2 neighborizers , 2 alignment cops (one was counted in conftowns) , 1 bodyguard , 1 doctor and 1 jailkeeper

don't mess with me

You keep saying this, but you're missing:

- one of the vigs got NK'd on N1
- The Town Doc ate rope on D1
- The whole of the Undead PT were slain by N2 (with the exception of KC/Bacde who were far from being confirmed, if only for the claim there might be a Wulden spy in that PT).

It is not the town's fault scum didn't make the right kills. It is not the town's fault the investigatives and vigs made the right calls.

Me and No retreat were only confirmed when we claimed. Nobody thought we were confirmed before that point. We could've been pushed to -at least- claim and get NK'd by scum, but no serious pushes were made on us either, which -again- is NOT OUR FAULT.

All in all, I say most players did well. It was unfortunate we lost some GOOD players early (both alignments) as it would have been more challenging it they lived longer, but then again someone had to die and those who lived longer were no less challenging.

[Almost50]

FTR;

Champions were not BP. We only gained a BP vest when one of us died.

Now consider this:

What if -on N1- NR visited Titus (and they did), and I decided to pay NR a visit myself, and then some scum faction decided to call my bluff and shoot me?? Do you think the town would have still had any realistic chance to win if all 3 Champs got killed on N1??

As I mentioned in the game, myself and Nero usually go head-to-head at some point. The fact we avoided eachother at night and worked together by day was in fact superb play and this alone contributed greatly to the town win.

I mean, Heartless neighbourized Cephrir the night I killed him. If Cephrir lived longer it could've had a very bad effect on the game for town (DGB also targeted Ceph with their confirmation message that night, then got neighbourized herself, so she could've been recruited by the Isolationists next and then Heartless gets offed and that neighbourhood would've gone far acting like a masonry for all we know.)

There were plenty of ifs and buts that could've swayed the game in ANY direction.

Oh, well. I guess everybody sees what they want to see. Personally I thought it was challenging enough until the very end.

[Almost50]

Btw, what would have happened if we rejected the treaty?? Just out of curiosity.

[Almost50]

I dunno why I won, but yay?

Well, you're cool, so Nero eventually decided he wanted you to win too.

Seriously though, you've got Rach to thank for that.

[Almost50]

Kinda funny now that i think about it:

I think that Tim's scum, and BBMolla's town.

Also my 4th post in undead thread:

I have a feeling Cakez and Ceph have access to some sort of PT.

You did well, but outing your entire PT was a bad move. Still, catching SS was kind of a compensation for it, so you can say you still deserved to win at the end.

[Almost50]

BBM was lying though.

Which bring back the eternal debate between "town have no reason to lie" vs "town are prone to tell lies as much as scum are, bc this is a game of LIES AND DECEIT". The only difference is what lies are you telling and to what purpose.

[Almost50]

NERO YOU SHOULD NOT HAVE KILLED MY GF GRRRRRR

Actually that was a good vig, and a well-timed one too. Emotions aside, it would have been MUCH harder for us to ratify the treaty with Expedience alive.

So, it was either Expedience lives and we all risk a town loss, or he dies and we all win, including him!

[Almost50]

bc I didn't want to kill the other Champions either.

I swore Mastin said in the dead thread you thought you needed to kill me.


also sorry Titus

Not exactly. What I thought was we needed to kill scum (and at the time I considered non-human = scum), and IF THE GAME DIDN'T END by then, then maybe the champions needed to settle it between themselves as they would be considered "threats" to eachother, but not to other humans.

However, I didn't even look your way even after you were outed. I thought IF one of us had to go for the game to end in a town win I'd be ok being that one.