Gistou (Over!)

[Expedience]

No I am serious Luna claimed cop in her neighborhood to scum.
That means that scum knew who she wanted to confirm so they could redirect her to someone who has the same information as the person she was checking.

it annoys me when people present their POV like fact.

It's also a towntell.

UNVOTE: LLD

VOTE: RAM

(disclaimer: haven't read the entire thread yet)

[Expedience]

VOTE: LLD

I read up, LLD is still scum even if she wasn't so idiotic as to incorrectly paraphrase her fakeclaim.

[Expedience]

Wow, I got like so many strong townreads in these past pages.

Woot woot.

~ Bins

Fake

[Expedience]

Question why is LLD scum outside my Wulden race cop result on her?
I am waiting on a VC before I continue playing to be perfectly honest.

Reaction to accusation is fake, the claim is otherwise fine.

[Expedience]

Maybe beeboy is trying super hard not to get lynched after an incriminating result, but if I was in that position I would just give up.

I mean, when I put things in perspective the result is probably legit, but it doesn't sound that way when reading their posts. They feel flaily and insistent in a town way. Maybe I'm just bad.

But LLD seems like scum, claim aside.

Klingoncelt is spewing nonsense that she doesn't believe again. Like, what happened to being 100% sure that WT, No Retreat, and I were scum together? It was just hot air.

[Expedience]

Since you voted Expedience; I kinda like that vote. He cheered me up today because he was actually talking sense and seems to fucking understand what's going on, but if anything that suggests he may be an informed minority. I mean, that's not definite, he could also just be a good critical thinker, but my main point is that I don't think him being rational here and having a good grasp for the situation is towny at all. My scumread on him from early remains.

Because agreeing / disagreeing with someone is alignment indicative.

Mathblade, you haven't been reading my posts if you don't think that every one of my votes have been exquisitely justified.

[Expedience]

¯\_(ツ)_/¯¯\_(ツ)_/¯¯\_(ツ)_/¯¯\_(ツ)_/¯¯\_(ツ)_/¯

scum shrugs ^^^^

~Ice

It does look pretty scummy, I feel like the smile curves upwards too far in a way that suggests scum knowledge?

[Expedience]

I guess I didn't explain my thought process regarding Cephrir's claim.

I think that Cephrir is telling the truth, I don't think he's lying to save LLD. I think that he's town. But I also think that LLD got the "treaty" wincon as part of her fakeclaim.

[Expedience]

Are you serious right now? How many times has it been said by Mastin that race =/= faction? Yet apparently people want to keep pushing on LLD just because she's Wulden and therefore practically 'confirmed cult'.

Why don't all of you who are town actually do some real fucking scumhunting?

If LLD isn't "individual wulden", she's scum, and that's quite explicit. The faction is probably called "hunter" or something.

I think you're missing something here.

[Expedience]

I did explicitly role cop LLD

Did you ROLE Cop her or did you RACE Cop her? Please be specific. It may not matter on THIS particular outcome, but it does matter on others I think, since we had flips from the same nation belonging to different factions.

Rolefishing?

This response ALONE is enough for me to pursue your lynch to the end of time and beyond. YOU said you investigated their race, then YOU said you Role Copped them. I only asked you to specify which one YOU meant of the two YOU typed! How on Earth is that rolefishing?

Once again, for the last time I targeted STORMBRINGER NOT SALTSQUAD.

You were told this multiple times.

and yet you continue to be what appears to be deliberately ignorant for the purposes of your own agenda.

I'm happy with this vote.

Vote: Almost50

This is such a weak post. I would vote LLD for this even if she didn't show as Wulden.

[Expedience]

Dramonic was part of your PT, right Stormblade?

[Expedience]

As I skim, my thoughts are aligned mostly with Rb/mathblade/Cephrir.

The LLD wagon is as reactionary as it gets. There are a couple players, Expedience and Albert's head of Stormblade, that aren't using "Wulden!" as their main reason but I either don't see an explanation for the scum read (albert) or don't see anything remotely convincing to empathize with that read (Expedience). I can understand where copper (and assume the other people not Albert/Expedience) are getting the 90% chance number but at the same time, there's hardly any mention of cephrir, who would be subject to that same scrutiny (especially from copper who has explicitly mentioned a group nosferatu faction, but even in a recent post has his sights on SS/RB after LLD and NOT cephrir). There's also no one that has come out and said they were either individual wulden/nosferatu which would be natural in this gamestate. That lends credence to both their claims.

So yeah, this LLD wagon is lazy af, half of everyone on it has barely said more than 2 words, and if they have said more, it's generally been about baseless speculation, or even provably wrong speculation.

Meanwhile, WT with every post becomes more and more obvious scum. Was the Counter-wagon to town that stalled out, and dramonic WT's #1 pusher is dead.

It really doesn't take a rocket scientist to see that he's scum.

It's literally claiming miller when you get checked by a cop, except there is a known greater chance of one existing. I don't see why more people are voting.

(rb is still obvtown btw)

[Expedience]

Null, maybe slightly bothered because you're scum.

[Expedience]

The odds of one being there are 50/50, either there is or there isn't.

Odds among the surviving members being the spy (if there is one) 1 in 4.

There's a 75% chance that I'm not the Wulden.

lol

[Expedience]

Mastin, I was actually voting LLD although I don't blame you for being confused.

<<< Odd. I have your vote correctly in the changes section. I have your vote correctly in all the other extra sections as well. But for some reason, the main VC--the hardest to get wrong--somehow...was wrong. My mistake. >>>

VOTE: Salt Squad

However this is probably the safest lynch for today.

Is anyone willing to claim being of the Eastern Kingdom? No point being shy since others have claimed.

Why lol?

[Expedience]

I get 5222. Honestly I don't trust Luna and I half expect Salt Squad to flip town and it will turn out that Luna just misread her PM as saying that Salt Squad was "an isolationist faction" or some bs like that. I'm actively overriding my gut here.

[Expedience]

Null, maybe slightly bothered because you're scum.

Good answer, consistent with previous behaviors. Cool.

-Cerb

This. Does anyone else feel me that this is so fucking contrived and bad and scummy??? In all honestly I would hugely support a RAM lynch today.
-Nahdia

I know, it feels really shitty. Like he was trying to set a trap for me to fall into but then I didn't. Like "oh, that's good. you're safe for now, but WATCH YOUR BACK BITCH"

RAM are still unambiguously scum. I would also like to lynch them today over anyone else, but I'm worried there wouldn't be enough support like there was yesterday.

[Expedience]

VOTE: RAM

[Expedience]

What would happen is they mislynch one neighbour, then that concentrates the chance of scum in the remaining players, then they just get purged until the scum is found (if there is any), and those remaining get nightkilled for being pseudo-confirmed town. Remember, part of the risen slave wincon is to survive.

[Expedience]

VOTE: Salt Squad

[Expedience]

Ya but why would he ever hang his defense on "spinning the redirect possibility? Seriously, someone make me understand why they feel that's a reasonable response from scum given that nobody has a firm grasp on what factions and win conditions are town?

Like, that's the biggest problem I have with it. It's a super bad play for surviving today.

-Cerb

Pedit: it doesn't tell you that a redirect or block would always affect all actions. That is ABSOLUTELY just an assumption.

wiki.mafiascum/wifom

Literally "why would scum try to discredit a cop guilty on them if it makes them look bad"

Man this makes me feel bad about my vote, they obviously have an agenda and Cerberus seems like the type of guy to wk town. I hate the situation I'm in right now.

[Expedience]

SS' push on Klingon feels kind of desperate and survivalistic and I no longer townread them based on play. There is like 0.0001% chance that something happened to the result, let's just lynch them as fast as possible. No more progress is being made.

I think most of the counterwagons people tried to start are on scum but still, this is the safest bet.

[Expedience]

Mastin, when players die and flip will there be anything at all to differentiate between Town and Scum?

Holy shit dude, read the OP. It's not that difficult to use common sense for stuff like this, and it's already been discussed in the thread extensively. I have asked only one question to mastin so far.

[Expedience]

Beeboy, can you self-vote? Right now if you're town the circumstances are so severely stacked against you that you should have accepted your fate by now. Thanks.

[Expedience]

RAM, why are you avoiding voting and actively chainsawing Salt Squad when they are 99.999% confirmed as scum?

[Expedience]

I think it's remarkable how hard Salt Squad (Beeboy al least) have persisted in the face of adversity. They haven't even given enough ground to claim their role yet!

[Expedience]

Wake, can I be one of your townspeople even if I'm not the same faction? This is entirely hypothetical of course, I may very well be a Northern Tribesperson just like you.

[Expedience]

Toogeloo, I'm aware that you are a proud and pureblooded human but if you haven't managed to work out that individual vampire is town you'll just have to accept it.

If that faulty and overly literal interpretation leads you to vote Salt Squad, then fine.

But like, none of the flipped wincons have a 51% clause. The flavor strongly implies town. Mastin has repeatedly stressed that race != faction, and all non-humans can recruit.

We have only seen town flips so far. Also stop fearmongering about "cults :0", "what if its just ffa??", it's annoying to me because I don't feel like the setup is very hard to undersrand. Maybe Cephrir's gripe was valid, but.

Let's just lynch Salt Squad, we should all be able to agree on that (except RAM who is unambiguously scum).

[Expedience]

Hey, you probably should at least try to read the thread although it's mostly confusing spam, also sorry you replaced into a scum slot etc

For now you should vote Salt Squad, they have an effective cop guilty on them.

[Expedience]

rb, is the only reason you think Wake is third party because he said something about how there could be a serial killer or something? He seems really town to me, especially what I saw catching up.

I would like Nosferatu to full claim.

Bacde's claim and all of that stuff gives me a headache. I'm going to come back to this later.

VOTE: LLD

[Expedience]

Spoiler:

I mean sure, ppl can watch/protect me, and in that case im open again to scan in there instead of lynching, if that's the route we're going.

Why would anyone in their right minds waste a protect on you?

You sold out your entire neighborhood.

Dram is dead.

Your fault.

You cannot be trusted.

Now a Tracker, yes, putting a Tacker on you would be great.

BTW, since you couldn't be bothered with asking me for my results, Little Miss Team Player:

A Song of Ice and Fire -
Location is Other,
Visited by xxx with a Night Action,
Visited by Klingoncelt and also by yyy, each with a check action

Go ahead and Lynch me if you must but nosferatu visited Luna fox and was the only person to do so and Luna fox died overnight

Rach Marie also checked Luna fox so there is my watcher proof

My whole undead slave faction but me is now dead

Why do ppl want to Lynch Kling? What happened in the game.before this

N1

Watch and check song of ice and fire

Nosferatu visited with a night action
Kling invest visited with a check
Heartless visited with a check

Hey guys RAM also visited Luna fox lol I didn't mention it before

So he's claiming:

Night 1:
Check location of A Song of Ice and Fire: Other
Watch A Song of Ice and Fire: Nosferatu visited with a night action, Klingoncelt and RachMarie visited with a check action

Night 2:
Watch Luna Fox: Nosferatu and RAM visited with a night action, RachMarie visited with a check action

This is right? I was confused

Then the reason he isn't voting Nosferatu or anything is because he actually doesn't have a guilty on him at all and RAM probably killed Luna Fox, even though he never acknowledges this.

I think I believe him, I want it to be possible for Bacde to be telling the truth.

[Expedience]

Toogeloo has to have been stopped from targeting Luna Fox regardless because we know he didn't save the kill.

Spoiler:

I mean sure, ppl can watch/protect me, and in that case im open again to scan in there instead of lynching, if that's the route we're going.

Why would anyone in their right minds waste a protect on you?

You sold out your entire neighborhood.

Dram is dead.

Your fault.

You cannot be trusted.

Now a Tracker, yes, putting a Tacker on you would be great.

BTW, since you couldn't be bothered with asking me for my results, Little Miss Team Player:

A Song of Ice and Fire -
Location is Other,
Visited by xxx with a Night Action,
Visited by Klingoncelt and also by yyy, each with a check action

Go ahead and Lynch me if you must but nosferatu visited Luna fox and was the only person to do so and Luna fox died overnight

Rach Marie also checked Luna fox so there is my watcher proof

My whole undead slave faction but me is now dead

Why do ppl want to Lynch Kling? What happened in the game.before this

N1

Watch and check song of ice and fire

Nosferatu visited with a night action
Kling invest visited with a check
Heartless visited with a check

Hey guys RAM also visited Luna fox lol I didn't mention it before

So he's claiming:

Night 1:
Check location of A Song of Ice and Fire: Other
Watch A Song of Ice and Fire: Nosferatu visited with a night action, Klingoncelt and RachMarie visited with a check action

Night 2:
Watch Luna Fox: Nosferatu and RAM visited with a night action, RachMarie visited with a check action

This is right? I was confused

Then the reason he isn't voting Nosferatu or anything is because he actually doesn't have a guilty on him at all and RAM probably killed Luna Fox, even though he never acknowledges this.

I think I believe him, I want it to be possible for Bacde to be telling the truth.

Both rach and nosfertu claimed they ended up visiting RAM not luna so he was clearly watching ram and he si telling truth, Ram is the redirector who switched his watch ability from luna to himself or is one of the redirectors as nos claimed there is another one.

I beleive him too and I might end up voting LLD as well

Bacde shouldn't live though , he is the last remaining player from a group who was screaming two days about a wulden spy between them who are all flipped undead.

and KC was an exact replica of her saga scum game last game.

~Ice

That makes more sense.

But Nosferatu must have been redirected from Stormblade to RAM as well as Bacde being redirected to RAM. Which is kind of eh.

It makes sense for mastin to make a mistake sending the result though.

Pedit @Tim: yeah, but Nosferatu says his checks don't match with Stormblade so he's claiming to be redirected.

[Expedience]

Unexpected

VOTE: No Retreat

My stance is still the same, my gut still feels like this is more likely to be town LLD based on her lack of playing.

When (ok, ok, if) LLD flips scum, make sure to look back at the votes and check which people needed a little "extra" convincing to move their vote from low hanging bacde to LLD. Check for probable motivation for protecting LLD from a lynch before realizing that wasn't a possibility.

I think this is a bit nearsighted. LLD's wagon is prob CRAWLING with other wulden(that would be bussing her?)/isolationists/3rd party Wake.

Seems inconsistent, I don't like the way he interacted with the wagon.

I think his meta townread on LLD was extremely strained and likely to be scum unwilling to bus.

I don't have any other suspects atm. I haven't considered interactions with Mathblade.

[Expedience]

Also I want WT to post at least before we end the day or whatever, don't quickhammer again.

[Expedience]

why is exp scum? for scum reading you?

He could be, at the very least he's wrong as fuck.

but also this has me a little worried that he's singular faux hunting.

I don't have any other suspects atm

and you can read my todays POE list above.

"a little worried"? You're voting me.

"singular faux hunting"? ?

yeah ok, lets not talk about this anymore since I have no intention of full claiming yet and everything will be obvious once I do. Now sheep me on Exp or talk to me about RB.

Can you claim flavor?

something something elephant in the room

Cult seems like it would be the biggest threat if we haven't killed one yet and it's day 4. There are way too many clears. Like, Bacde could easily be Undead and got culted, but the race cops wouldn't even know, and I don't know if it would even matter.

Also I want WT to post at least before we end the day or whatever, don't quickhammer again.

Sorry hoped my other half would make an appearance and thought if I did not post I could draw them out. It was a miscalculation on my part as it did not work. You have my attention this phase at least. Sorry for the difficulty. I shall carry the hydra and catch up. Again my apologises.

~Suz

This isn't really believable to me, but whatever adsf lynch someone

Lost here, question every read,

[Expedience]

?_?

this feels like rvs

Nosferatu is person most likely to be town -> cult

[Expedience]

why do you think that?

1000% gut.

No Retreat, if you claim and I believe you, I will also claim. Otherwise you can see that a wagon will build on you until deadline, and then you'll have to claim at the last minute and you might be more likely to get lynched.

[Expedience]

why do you think that?

18 days, 4 hours, 23 minutes, 4 votes, 6k posts, 1 scumread

[Expedience]

yes, lets claim and give scum more information. Stop shit posting.

but if i'm scum how does it give scum more information? ',:^)

[Expedience]

yes, lets claim and give scum more information. Stop shit posting.

but if i'm scum how does it give scum more information? ',:^)

I'm so confused by this post

Don't cult me

Also please everyone stop voting rb.

[Expedience]

yes, lets claim and give scum more information. Stop shit posting.

but if i'm scum how does it give scum more information? ',:^)

huh?

is this claiming I'm scum and I already know your role? cause this is weird >.>

~Ice

Why would No Retreat turn down an offer to have a scumread claim in exchange for his claim, UNLESS he wasn't actually scumreading me.

[Expedience]

yes, lets claim and give scum more information. Stop shit posting.

shitposting is explicitly suboptimal town play and this interpretation means that he is saying that my claim would be bad for town, which is inconsistent with scumreading me.

[Expedience]

omg No Retreat is the cultl leader, kill it

Everyone vote No Retreat to force him to claim, he's way too guarded about that

[Expedience]

Obviously if Exp doesn't full claim in his next post he's scum. See I can use that same "logic" too.

Fuck, I have been bested in this battle of wits

I am alexis galenos which is an individual undead flavor cop basically, I chose location cop pregame. Night one I targeted Tim, n2 you, n3 Nosferatu. On n2 I tried to convert Tim but it failed. I forgot the results I can give that if you want but mastin accidentally gave me nation instead of location results on n2.

Also I am conf town-or-cult from flavor and I slipped that my faction color was green on day 1.

Now you full claim in your next post, or you're scum.

[Expedience]

^ is ambiguous what I mean is that my only ability is to location check

Was it not immediately obvious to you that you were town from the color?

[Expedience]

I'm "individual undead" which is different from "undead risen slave". Kuroi was "individual vampire" and Salt Squad was vampire despite being in isolationist faction, race =/= alignment.

Also consistent with this is how I saw LLD was lying about her wincon because it didn't match mine, BBmolla's, or Kuroi's. It also says in Mathblade's role PM's flavor that Alexis Galenos is undead.

[Expedience]

Everyone No Retreat has come out pushing is town, including Wake, Bacde, me, rb (who can only be culted town and can't be cult leader most likely)

Therefore, he is scum and you should vote him.

[Expedience]

It says "Alexis Galenos" in dramonic and Mathblade's role PM which is the flavor name of my role.

I'm not flavor cop, I tried to explain it's basically VT with the location / nation check that everyone has

[Expedience]

Game Mechanics

:

Welcome to Gistou! For those who didn't read the brochure, here's what you're in for!

The world is a dark place...

• The first thing you'll need to know is that every player has four game-relevant attributes:
  1. Closest location they hail from; there are
     five possibilities
     :
     1. The Great Lake
     2. Divitias
     3. Erimos Range
     4. Great Ridge
     5. Other
  2. Closest nation they hail from; there are
     four possibilities
     :
     1. Northern Tribes
     2. Western Empire
     3. Eastern Kingdom
     4. Other
  3. Race; there are
     seven
     of them:
     1. Humans
     2. Vampires
     3. Lycans
     4. Undead
     5. Wulden
     6. Nosferatu
     7. Other
  4. Faction
  Your faction is your wincon
  . They are not public information.
• There are no sample PMs. Any party who is in need of a fakeclaim has the mod-given ability for one.
• This is a multi-factional game.
  Please pay very close attention to your win condition. Some players who you may not think are allies will be fighting for the same thing you are, and some players who you may think are fighting for the same thing you are may not actually be allies. The ambiguity inherent is meant to reflect the moral ambiguity of Gistou.
• Loosely speaking,
  there is at least one town faction
  . They win if all threats to them are eliminated.
• Loosely speaking,
  at least one faction is definitely a scum/mafia faction
  . They win if they control 50% of the living.
• I offer a guarantee that, on D1, the players considered town outnumber the players considered scum.
• Factions, loosely speaking, have general trends, sharing race, location, and nation. These traits are not, however, universal.
• Upon the death of a player, all of their original personal abilities will be revealed, along with any changes to their personal abilities since then. Their original faction, and if applicable any change in faction, will also be revealed. However, no factional abilities will be flipped.
• This game will use my understanding of Natural Action Resolution (insert obligatory CFJ rant here)...with one major exception:
  recruits resolve

  before

  kills
  , not after.
• Please do note that, while this is a
  very
  flavor-heavy game, I designed it so that it cannot be broken by flavor-claiming.
• No player is entirely vanilla!

  This is because

  every player, unless otherwise specified

  , has a

  free action

  they may perform

  in addition to

  any other action they may possess. This action is

  selected during the pregame

  (and once chosen, is locked in for the remainder of the game). Players may choose to

  check a player

  and will learn whichever fact they chose. The options are

  1. Checking what nation a player hails from
  2. Checking what location a player hails from

  This action

  counts for all role purposes

  , as a visit and can be blocked/fail. This is why the game cannot begin until

  every

  player has confirmed, both in-thread and via PM.

  • Some players have variants on this power. They are
    1. Free-checker (can choose either nation or location the entire game)
    2. Full free-checker (can choose nation, location, or race the entire game)
    3. Racial checker (can only check race)
    4. Full checker (gets
       all
       of nation, location, and race)
  • Checks resolve last in action resolution.
• All topics this game will be open the whole game
  .
• Each faction, if possessing a non-human race, has a one-shot ability to recruit a human to their faction
  . Emphasis "human". This ability will fail if more than one faction attempts this on the same target. This ability does not work on all humans. Regardless of success or failure, this ability is used up once activated. (The recruiter will be informed if they fail, but not the reason why.) In short, only the unluckiest of humans will get culled. It
  can
  happen, though, so
  be cautious!
• Oh, and one more thing...
  There is a cult faction this game
  . Be warned. Nothing is known about it.

This is what I'm referring to, I guess you have a variant of that.

[Expedience]

Aight

Now we wait for No Retreat to come back and give us a dodgy fakeclaim, then we lynch him for being a cult leader.

[Expedience]

Obviously if Exp doesn't full claim in his next post he's scum. See I can use that same "logic" too.

Fuck, I have been bested in this battle of wits

I am alexis galenos which is an individual undead flavor cop basically, I chose location cop pregame. Night one I targeted Tim, n2 you, n3 Nosferatu. On n2 I tried to convert Tim but it failed. I forgot the results I can give that if you want but mastin accidentally gave me nation instead of location results on n2.

Also I am conf town-or-cult from flavor and I slipped that my faction color was green on day 1.

Now you full claim in your next post, or you're scum.

yeah....still not claiming.

There's no reason too. Exps "almost vanilla with only a location check" is all kinds of bullshit. Also notice how Exp goes from "Nero is Wulden not bussing LLD" and when that didn't stick he changes it to "He's the cult leader b/c he won't claim"

ggez

[Expedience]

yeah....still not claiming. There's no reason too. Exps "almost vanilla with only a location check" is all kinds of bullshit. Also notice how Exp goes from "Nero is Wulden not bussing LLD" and when that didn't stick he changes it to "He's the cult leader b/c he won't claim"

Seriously, look at this shit. I'm basically confirmed town. Please kindly vote yourself.

[Expedience]

Is your flavor name Panther Timon? (y/n)

[Expedience]

accept that she flaked and lynch scum Exp, RB and Bcade.

yes

Is that an answer to my question?

Bacde literally can't be wulden why would there be an undead in a faction called "wulden", their topic specifically says that it's a wulden spy, I think at least.

[Expedience]

Ok sorry lol

VOTE: Wayward Thinker

I am unvoting because that's the name of one of the champions in Titus' role PM and he is from Eastern Kingdom

[Expedience]

like I get that you're salty you could've just claimed flavor when I asked lol

[Expedience]

and your reason for wanting to out me?

Freelo from process of elimination

pedit: he didn't do anything

[Expedience]

yeah, there was no point. This this scumbag.

I thought you were scum as well so yeah.

[Expedience]

Bacde literally can't be wulden why would there be an undead in a faction called "wulden", their topic specifically says that it's a wulden spy, I think at least.

I don't think it is a given that factions are racially pure. There could be a wulden faction member who is another race (undead) and spying on the faction that is primarily that race.
It wouldn't be likely for this to be a possibility if it hadn't been mentioned specifically. It's just a question of whether it is safe to confirm someone with that possibility still out there.

Nvm, you're right I remembered there was a vampire in the isolationists.

[Expedience]

VOTE: Expe

how in the fucking earth you poed a flavor name on him

This litterally make no sense

Read Titus' role PM, it says the other two human champions' flavor names, and I had a nation cop result on him of Eastern Kingdoms, so I just guessed

[Expedience]

It was a mod error on night 2, I said already, I got nation instead of location.

It didn't suggest that he was scum. The result was meaningless to me.

I didn't think he was human *shrug emoji*

[Expedience]

yeah, there was no point. This this scumbag.

I thought you were scum as well so yeah.

[Expedience]

Could you like... not

I'm basically conftown we can win easily if you trial someone like Tim, rb, WT or davesaz

And why would you not shoot LLD?

[Expedience]

{Franky, Toogeloo, Skybird, TWIE}

Unless we start seeing some activity out of these slots soonish, I could get behind voting in that group.

Given that Franky is now Rach and the Rach/Wake mason claim, this post confuses me a little.

I mean, it's not like he can townread Franky with only 3 posts.

Even if I didn't believe the claim (I do believe them), if one of them gets killed then it will reflect their alignment, even a cult recruit. So we should let them live and their alignment will become clear soon enough probably.

VOTE: davesaz this is okay

[Expedience]

It was a mod error on night 2, I said already, I got nation instead of location.

It didn't suggest that he was scum. The result was meaningless to me.

I didn't think he was human *shrug emoji*

Did mod confirm there were mod errors that occured in game?

~Fire

No, but why would I lie about that anyway. All roles have some kind of check action.

[Expedience]

Last weekend before my kids go back to school. Fun...

Wasn't Wake one of the people who was ranting about not knowing if he was town?
Wouldn't a

role

of

Mason

pretty well assure that?

I don't think he did that? Or maybe in a "town isn't real!!" way if anything iirc

@Heartless, I don't see why being open to possibilities of mixed race factions is scummy. The people who have played with me should know that I always keep an open mind on everything short of mod confirmations. Granted I haven't kept fully up with reading every single page, there are 30 or more that I haven't. Having LLD's lynch happen during a RL week from hell makes me look bad. But look at the good -- the inconsistency that I saw and pushed in SS v. Luna netted us scum. I think the Klingon / Bacde slot has some inconsistencies. I've been asking for thumbnail cases on other suspects because if it's a better case I'm happy to help.

Pedit: Let me get this straight, you got a nation result and you use that to blackmail a champion into outing himself?

Yes, you claim next.

[Expedience]

Yes, you claim next.

I mean this in a "claim because we can easily win if this list of a few players claims immediately and you are either scum stalling or town inhibiting progress" kind of way i'm not rolefishing even if that was a real thing!

[Expedience]

dont forget my mason buddy wake, bacde

I'm also confirmed town

Bacde, maybe mastin altered the results that you received and tried to tell you that RAM visited Luna Fox

instead of

Nosferatu / RachMarie, and you misinterpreted it as RAM visited Luna Fox

in addition to

Nosferatu / RachMarie, if you check again is this possible?

[Expedience]

i race checked dave night 2.

If it's human, vampire, or undead, he's 100% scum because those factions have "you win with the individual [race]" wincons.

This is not rolefishing because if davesaz is town, he could not be claiming human, vampire, or undead anyway.

He's still very likely scum anyway I think.

[Expedience]

i race checked dave night 2.

if the result was wulden or nosferatu im just assuming this would have a vote tacked on...?

you assume correctly.

Wait, that doesn't make sense. So davesaz is claiming individual lycan which just happens to have a different wincon to all 3 of the other different "individual" factions. k, he's scum then.

[Expedience]

Race; there are seven of them:
Humans - win with individual humans
Vampires - win with individual vampires
Lycans - """"""""""""""""""win with human treaty"""""""""""""""""""
Undead - win with individual undead
Wulden - idk, probably none exist
Nosferatu - idk, probably none exist
Other - idk, probably none exist

[Expedience]

human treaty wincon.

this seems to be the favorite fakeclaim of flipped scum

which makes me wary

I think the most likely thing is that Cephrir was trying to indicate that he was scum to the wulden. LLD must have make a mistake, because Mathblade had a fakeclaim with a proper individual wincon.

[Expedience]

i race checked dave night 2.

if the result was wulden or nosferatu im just assuming this would have a vote tacked on...?

you assume correctly.

Wait, that doesn't make sense. So davesaz is claiming individual lycan which just happens to have a different wincon to all 3 of the other different "individual" factions. k, he's scum then.

And he may not even have shown Lycan to TWIE, in which case he's even more clearly scum.

[Expedience]

Umm, giving my exact "individual faction" wincon would immediately reveal race, which I didn't want to do. So I chose to paraphrase using a town wincon that would leave scum guessing.
You win when all threats to {redacted} are eliminated.

Or you could've just said that you win if threats to the invidual [race] faction are eliminated?

I don't believe you.

Is your flavor Nicholas Schroder?

Bacde is claiming undead risen slave and he has the same wincon that you fakeclaimed

[Expedience]

You can't have simultaneously forgotten about your wincon and have deliberately lied about it to (somehow) avoid outing your race and "keep scum guessing".

[Expedience]

So basically i win with town but im not explictly town then?
The win con looked like normal town win con to me.

there's no functional difference between being town and winning with the town

Im confused by what BBMolla's going on about.

There is nothing that states winning with humans = town.

I interpreted the setup posts to imply that there may be multiple factions with "when all threats eliminated" type wincons. They would all be "town" in a loosely defined way.

ehh. There's nothing inconsistent in davesaz's ISO I can see.

We

could

always just lynch Nosferatu.

[Expedience]

Umm, giving my exact "individual faction" wincon would immediately reveal race, which I didn't want to do. So I chose to paraphrase using a town wincon that would leave scum guessing.
You win when all threats to {redacted} are eliminated.

I always hate having to make decisions in situations like this (see: salt squad) because it makes my gut biased to think they are town.

[Expedience]

VOTE: tim

yeah tim is too much coasting I can see this really well

VOTE: Tim

what did toog do?

we could lynch toog

Lynch the guy who's been white knighting you! Your whole demeanor has gotten quite rough as of late though, and you're posting without reading evidently. I think I'm done being nice to you, you can sleep in whatever bed you make.

I tried to Bodyguard Luna Night 2. You didn't see me, apparently.

Unvote;
Vote: Tim

what's the origin of this tim wagon? Or am I just this far out of the loop?

PoE

dont forget my mason buddy wake, bacde

I'm also confirmed town

When did that happen?

Spoiler:

From flavor:

I am alexis galenos

dramonic

, who was

Eugine Lysander,

Undead Risen Slave

, has

died N1

.

Alexis Galenos had been wise to gather you all together. She saw this coming, from the moment Dmitri stole the secrets of your kind away.

Stormblade

, who was

Mark Nikanor

,

Undead Risen Slave 2x-Bulletproof

, has died N2.

You knew Alexis was not just a frightened little girl, that she was wise beyond her years, so when she warned of the threat incoming, you of all people knew to take it seriously. After all...she contacted you first. She wouldn't have done that unless she thought it was something of grave...err, dire consequence. Huh, her sense of humor must have worn off on you, you muse for a short while. It could have also been proximity, given you were the closest of the elders to the great lake where she was rescued, but...

...You knew the Galenos girl to be skilled enough, even wounded, to get there by herself if she didn't think you needed to get involved. It's such a sad situation, a tragedy of the ages. The sweet little girl...what horrors she had to live through, only she truly knows. Damn that Dmitri Damanos! Not only did he hurt the child, he stole your secrets. You didn't even know he had done so until she told you as much. You never knew of his crimes. If you had...before the wulden became what they are...maybe you could have...

Luna Fox

, who was

Demetria Kleon

,

Undead Risen Slave Faction Cop

, has died N2.

Alexis had taught you well. You remember when the world of Agnigi began to crumble down around you. The news spread like wildfire, as the supernatural aspects of the world slowly became common knowledge. Including your existence, the existence of those who were no longer alive, and yet still roamed among the living.

Mathblade, who was

Dmitri Damanos, Wulden Big Bad/Ninja/Bulletproof/Champion

, has died N3.

Something that same tip said could come from a source you knew...

Alexis Galenos

. Schroder's love interest. You fancied her yourself, but were never able to hold onto her that long, thanks to his meddling. So now, the wicked plan formed, you set into motion the twisted fate that would give birth to Gistou as it is now known: you kidnapped her. Tortured her. And discovered her secret, that she was not, in fact, actually alive. Her distinct green skin was not from being a subset of the yellowskins. No, she was actually deceased, considered such, just as you had figured the hunters were...no, you knew they were better known by a different name.

Additionally:

I slipped that my faction color was green on day 1.

Was it not immediately obvious to you that you were town from the color?

please don't cult me ;;;;-,;;;

[Expedience]

I think it's more feasible that davesaz would just blurt out the human treaty wincon if he was human.

However, I don't think it's reasonable to discount the possibility that there is a scum human because there are a lot of race cops? idk but let's not lynch him today.

VOTE: Tim

COULD BE CONVINCED TO VOTE WITH ALMOST NO EFFORT: Nosferatu

[Expedience]

I still think Exp was rolefishing. His original reasoning for scumreading me was that I was wasn't voting LLD, which is sorta dumb 'cause it avoids a ton of other players but...

Then he switches to the "OMG NERO'S NOT ROLECLAIMG!" I just feel like if he were town he'd stick with the first thing. I also think this "don't cult me!" sounds fake. Here where he tries to take an obvious reply to DGB and try to make it look like I was talking to him is also hard to see from town.

like, all I wanted was for you to claim, I wasn't being entirely honest there.

But I genuinely thought you were replying to me, your post was pretty ambiguous and I don't know whyyou or how there is any scum motivation in that anyway.

@Exp

Why do you think RB can't be the cult leader?

Idk. I think aSoIaF made a good point about their tone changing, and that could be because they were culted. I may have been exaggerating.

But I don't like rb's posts today.

Everyone No Retreat has come out pushing is town, including Wake, Bacde, me, rb

(who can only be culted town and can't be cult leader most likely)

I'm basically conftown we can win easily if you trial someone like Tim, rb, WT or davesaz

What happened between these two posts where I pushing town RB and then he's a good vig shot?

Game is almost easily solved by PoE, just make Tim / WT / rb / aSoIaF (and previously you) claim, because one of them will be a vig and we don't want them to shoot each other. aSoIaF could be scum because Firebringer hasn't really been posting much at all, and FA can easily churn out 500 posts of spam that I am unwilling to read back to try and work out their alignment.

You should shoot Nosferatu, davesaz, or one of those people. Nosferatu is probably town who was turned to cult.

Davesaz could be a scum human, there has to be some I think.

[Expedience]

I don't really like the WT wagon, it feels too easy. My guts says we should mass claim soon but I'm not really sure how soon.

Same about WT, except we should only make Tim / WT / rb / aSoIaF claim

WT basically can't be scum unless he was being bussed really hard, a lot of the votes on him were from scum of both factions.

[Expedience]

I'm likely dying soon (THANKS EXP!) so I figure I'll just be "leashed" and i'll use my vig shot as a double lynch but its still mine so I'll have my own pool but you guys get to help decide. So depending on the lynch I still want to shoot within

3. Bacde
12. davesaz
20. rb
23. Expedience
26. DrippingGoofball

If anyone has any major concers with me killing anyone on this list speak up.

You should not kill: Bacde, me, and DGB

[Expedience]

not really seeing Rachs case for Exp being town b/c Alexis is a role confirmed to be in the game.

Any name which appears in a flipped role could easily be adapted into a fakeclaim by careful scum. Was the flavor claim the main reason for that townread?
I can support Exp or WT.

Did you read the flavor?

[Expedience]

@Expedience:

Your way of making everybody claim is just NOT impressing me at all! Like, you COULD get easily guess which of them is the remaining champ without necessarily outing them to the public.

Btw, do you check nations or locations? If nations, please claim your results. Now THAT might prove more useful than outright claiming roles.

No not everyone, just those people. Then we will probably win, I guarantee it!

If I guess it's aSoIaF, but idk.

ok:
Night 1: Tim's location is Great Ridge
Night 2: No Retreat's nation is East Kingdom
Night 3: Nosferatu's location is Other

[Expedience]

Like, we have 3 flipped Northern Tribes and 3 alive. That leaves 1 unclaimed/flipped from the Northern Tribes.

We had 4 Western flips, and DGB alive, so 2 more West out there and they're likely to be town.

3 East flips and 2 living claims leaving 2 unknown, and then we have 5 alive from Other.

Now tell me you have TWO others checked as Northern from the unknowns and I'd lynch Toog in a split of a second because that would confirm he used a fake claim, then we re-evaluate based on the night action and checks.

Bodyguard claim cannot survive to endgame probably so idc about Toogeloo, he is obvtown anyway

[Expedience]

Lynch dav when I'm gone, that vote was really opportunistic.

Please claim.

[Expedience]

But I genuinely thought you were replying to me, your post was pretty ambiguous and I don't know whyyou or how there is any scum motivation in that anyway.

I don't really buy that. I mean I already replied to your 6822 here so I'm not really sure why you'd think that I'd reply again instead of the post right above me. Also just look at your WORDS!

shitposting is explicitly suboptimal town play and this interpretation means that he is saying that my claim would be bad for town, which is inconsistent with scumreading me.

This is 100% you trying to paint me as scummy and claiming that my scumread on you was not honest. I'm sure you'll claim that you were doing this just to get me to claim but its not like I'm going to buy that weak shit.

"trying to paint me as scummy" it's called a scumread, I wanted you to claim because you were scummy.

Why would I lie about misreading your post lol are you serious. I didn't even read 6828 past the first line until now, probably because it just looked like another "undead spy xd!!" post

You should not kill: Bacde, me, and DGB

I am not killing Bacde or Dave. You, DGB, and RB all seem like fine vig shots. Might even be willing to flip a "mason".

dont do it bro, also Tim is probably who I would shoot if I were you.

Exp, can you make a post about how you currently see the gamestate.

???

[Expedience]

nice fish nero

You're both nosferatu?

What RachMarie claims about the flavor seems accurate to me, it mentions Nicholas Schroder and seems like as an ally but not about his race.

pedit: oh

[Expedience]

So you weren't masons from the start of the game, it was just RachMarie recruited you right?

[Expedience]

nice fish nero

THANK YOU!

now I'd like to know about how you see the gamestate.

The gamestate:
Town: Wake, RachMarie, No Retreat, Heartless, Bacde, Almost50, DGB, TWIE, Toogeloo
Not town: WT, Nosferatu, aSoIaF (can't really townread them that hard), rb, Nosferatu, Tim, davesaz

[Expedience]

and it is a 1 shot thingy basically I saved Wakes life

so yeah I used it when it became clear I needed help to sort out this game.

but everything else I have done pr wise was to help town win this game.

Unfortunately there were too many deaths to claim blocking LLD clearly someone else did the faction kill

same with RAM

LLD was a strongman who killed Luna Fox probably.

[Expedience]

Town: Wake, RachMarie, No Retreat, Heartless, Bacde, Almost50, DGB, TWIE, Toogeloo
Not town: WT, Nosferatu, aSoIaF (can't really townread them that hard), rb, Nosferatu, Tim, davesaz

why for each

y tho







gut








;-,

[Expedience]

So RachMarie is Individual Nosferatu, and Wake is Northern Tribes -> Individual Nosferatu?

[Expedience]

how would you know he was scum with a nos check?
Also what's your nation?

Please unhand my boy WT he is in danger of lynch

[Expedience]

Claim now please or I'll hammer you.

[Expedience]

Even though WT is claimstalling cult leader, do not hammer him.

If you hammer WT, I will hammer you.

[Expedience]

This is because we await the return of Tim, the claimstalling wulden goon.

[Expedience]

Expedience is probably town based on his play. If he's scum he's pushing his luck too hard.

meh. I mean he's sitting there and claiming that he needs folks to claim to solve the game but on the flipside those claims give him/scum more information so I'm not exactly trusting that he isn't scum that wants claims for information. I mean maybe its all OMGUS but I don't see pro-town play.

It doesn't matter how much information the scum have if they're dead.

[Expedience]

Nosferatu's nation and location are both other, how shady is that huh

[Expedience]

Tim narrowly escapes with his fakeclaim intact

[Expedience]

VOTE: rb

No ambiguity here

Tim, please pretend to be town by claiming so that we can lynch you after. You can be sure that your cooperation is appreciated, friend.

[Expedience]

Let's hope they are the other vig and hence immune to conversion.

[Expedience]

I like how since Day 1 I wanted a WT and RAM lynch (so I'm obv not Isolationist) - I out Nosferatu (the player) as the most likely Cult Leader (so I'm obv not cult) and I was willing to lynch LLD (Wulden) and people are gonna vote me. Me thinking Mathblade (Wulden) was town was shit and that's fine if people agree with that but we had really good reason to think that race alone wasn't a good indicator of scum. Obviously it's a better indicator than I realised and we CAN to an extent trust it and it'll be more accurate than I thought. From Mastin's wording I really thought it was gonna be a total mixed bag but clearly Nosferatu/Wulden are decent indicators of likely scum.

How fucking coincidental that the "masons" in Rach/Wake want to lynch the person who called out the Cult Leader on Day 3 and that ASOIAF has also been on my case about me being likely "culted" since my call out on Nosferatu visiting her, when it turns out my suspicions were completely legit in the end and I was right that Nosferatu was cult leader.

Maybe ASOIAF isn't cult and she's uncultable, but wtf scum faction do people think I'm supposed to be? Only realistic choice is Wulden because I'm blatantly not Cult/Isolationist. So if you think my play is scummy, make a case because this shit is weak and I'll bet my left nut that either Rach/Wake claims are fake or ASOIAF claims are fake. If they aren't and you're town, pls stop being useless by pressuring my slot which has had more good reads and lynched more scum than any other slot in the game. Ty.

Wulden claim

ASOIAF's claim is unbelievable.

[Expedience]

:^)

filthy

Both of them are scum I am sure. Let's lynch one and vig the other.

you didnt return wulden n1.

Okay let's lynch rb and shoot ASOIAF

[Expedience]

What they claimed is impossible, that's like being a mermaid and a centaur at the same time, which is impossible.

[Expedience]

Even if you are a mermaid centaur you still probably got culted, so.

rb is a better lynch anyway because we have proof that he lied about showing wulden to race cops.

[Expedience]

I don't believe you're a champion because there are already 3 human ones, and 2 scum ones.

[Expedience]

If you're a PGO, why didn't you distrust Almost50's claim?

We should wait to hear Bacde's results.

[Expedience]

Its not false

I asked mastain whats the meaning of "you win when X happens" she said it means you have a town win condition but I can explain the x

try that for yourself if your town too

~Ice

Was it not immediately obvious to you that you were town from the color?

color claim is faction claim I guess

why should I do that?

@Luna yes the win condition is you will win if all the threats to my faction are eleminated.

I confirmed my role as a town

After you claimed your not human but you win with the town I asked the mod about what does my role pm mean exactly

she confirmed that its a town win condition. she can't explain the threats and I simply win when they are all gone.

not going to talk about this anymore cause its purely role fishing me and I feel extremely uneasy about it.

~Ice

What's your wincon name?

VOTE: Salt Squad

explain to me how a factional recruit will work with uninformed members in your next post and how is that suppose to mean town or I'm not moving.

~Ice

Can you not recruit anyone

i hate myself for reading this

[Expedience]

I can't read, you claimed individual human

why am i even bothering with this you are probably a culted human orphan, ffs i just wasted so much of my composure reading that iso

In conclusion, vampires and undead cannot breed because they are sterile.

[Expedience]

VOTE: rb

<- confused

[Expedience]

FA am I supposed to understand what the conditions of the PGO-izer are or are you trying not to claim that?

[Expedience]

I don't think it's a reasonable assumption to make that cultists can recruit without the leader.

Like, we don't know what it said, it could be "one player of the cult faction can recruit each night while the leader is alive".

[Expedience]

Bacde, we're lynching rb because he claimed a wulden race miller (comes up as wulden when he's actually human) on d5, but he was checked on n1 as a human. So he was probably human who got recruited to wulden.

He has never addressed this, just spewing the same confidence nonsense.

[Expedience]

I don't know who is scum other than rb but it's a good chance that some people are.

I'm supporting lynching the scum we are most sure about in case the vig shots fail. Furthermore, rb wants to be shot so maybe he's bulletproof or something. It's not a huge deal but I can see a scenario in which asoiaf is town, I can see no scenario in which rb is town.

I don't think there is any evidence to suggest another redirector because No Retreat's shot went through on Nosferatu.

[Expedience]

I don't know who is scum other than rb

This is starting to be a common refrain from you. Like yesterday I was your sole scum read, today RB is your sole scum read. Idk, I just feel like town are far more likely to kinda spiral out and have multiple scumreads. And I think its more likely that scum have LESS scum readsso they are less likely to agitate players. Half the reason that I was scumreading you is b/c I was scumreading RB. RB spent a large chunk of d1 calling you scum and then when Dram flips his reaction is "oh maybe I'm wrong on Exp and Dram was right!" like WTF is that?!? Did you cult him? Are you guys scum buddies?

though Rach will just spout that your Alexis role means you are confirmed town but I think your play has been less than stellar thought I do have a bad habit of looking at bad play as scum play when it might just be bad play.

{asoiaf, davesaz, Tim} are the remaining Suspects

[Expedience]

I agree with Tim, let's lynch rb because this isn't really going anywhere.

[Expedience]

Please self-vote

[Expedience]

@Almost

I still don't exactly trust Bcade 'cause he came in an voted for dead scum and I think that was scum trying to fake a derp tell. Him not targeting me last night was also odd but I'm willing to let it right.

How do you feel about DGB? I think she's lurking and useless so I kinda wanna vig that. I held off b/c Heartless wanted me to but I don't get why they thought she was towny.

I still don't trust Exp, as he could have been easily culted and a him/RB team makes some sense. I kinda feel like the reason he wanted me outted so badly is 'cause he tried to cult me and it didn't work. What do you think of him?

You know we could just randomly shoot anyone that's not us and the masons and prob win.


12. davesaz
15. Tim (Iecerint + ActionDan)
17. A Song of Ice and Fire (Frozen Angel + Firebringer)
------------------------------------------------------------------
23. Expedience
25. TheWayItEnds
26. DrippingGoofball

you take the top half and I'll take the bottom?

You should both shoot in the top half, the bottom half are more like a list of people not to shoot.