Gistou (Over!)

[ActionDan]

I think the way the Kuroi wagon started was absolute bullshit and I lean town on Kuroi. Nothing he has done has actually caught my eye as scummy. LOOK AT THE WAY HIS WAGON STARTED. LOOK AT WT's POST ABOUT HIM. Like does 1434 ACTUALLY say ANYTHING? PLEASE, look at it. It's disgusting. I don't see how that's an actual case on him at all. Is anyone actually ISO-ing him? There's nothing wrong with the posts LQ quoted?! It's like he just quoted posts and then tried to think of clever responses to them.

Hi

<<< *cough* Accounts, people.
It's not that hard. >>>

[ActionDan]

Loosely speaking, there is at least one town faction. They win if all threats to them are eliminated.
Loosely speaking, at least one faction is definitely a scum/mafia faction. They win if they control 50% of the living.

Pretty sure everyone that's dead in this game is "town".

Also obligatory on BBm: I told you so (even though he basically tried to take himself out of the convert pool successfully, still a goddamn liar)

VOTE: WT

Please stop giving this thing a pass. (though if people REALLY want Celt to die a horrible death I am for that too)

<<< Please post on the appropriate account. >>>

[ActionDan]

Game's over tho

[ActionDan]

I have to figure out how to rainbow font

[ActionDan]

I mean there could be cult, or an isolationist recruit left. I lean there isn't any though. But If I had to root for a faction, I'd root for cult!

Actually via the wording of the wincon, RachMarie is an ally of that faction

[ActionDan]

I was referring to the Undead conglomerate

[ActionDan]

The only reason I'd want the treaty people to win is that Dramonic would get the win. He was on obvious scum WT who lived long enough to shoot our only microscopic chance at winning in the face with his strongman.

Seriously, screw the isolationists. I hope they die twice

[ActionDan]

aka friendly neighbor

[ActionDan]

how do you do rainbow text.

[ActionDan]

yes. and the billion race cops and faction cops and cop-vigs. those as well

[ActionDan]

you did fine

[ActionDan]

Nos had two chances to cult N4 + N3.

one of those is Davesaz. The other could be.... anyone. no one is safe

[ActionDan]

wasn't me tho

[ActionDan]

were you cult tho?

[ActionDan]

anyone that vigs ASoIAF becomes a defacto PGO for the next night

[ActionDan]

Howl

[ActionDan]

[ActionDan]

[ActionDan]

Oy hey where did Wake go?

[ActionDan]

Yes Yes I did.

I mean I took the PGOizer at ~face value. So my choices were Wake/TWIE. But if I were ever going to win, I had to hope that TWIE was going to be a shot/lynch. So.

Preferably I'd have wanted to get rid of your race check / role block but couldn't do it. I would have shot Almost tonight hoping that his 1-shot BP got used on Davesaz who nation checked ASoIAF. but since it apparently doesn't apply to wulden/Nosferatu, I guess he still has a 1-shot BP.

I'm sure we'll talk a bit about balance after the game but I think it's clear town had too much power imo.

[ActionDan]

I have no idea how heartless died. We shot you the same night Almost did.

[ActionDan]

I suspect it was via some PGO mechanics but I don't know

[ActionDan]

I'd have to see your Role PM. that'd be cool though.

Also Mastin I'm going to post more werewolf pics. fair warning

[ActionDan]

#

A

L

L

F

A

C

T

I

O

N

S

M

A

T

T

E

R

<<< This is an acceptable bah post. >>>

[ActionDan]

This was a very well designed game. Factions / roles / wincons / abilities / flavor / etc. were both enjoyable to read and play with.

As Mastin as since realized though, balance was off. And limiting the power of the BP-vigs and race checkers would be the fix (and not tampering with Vanilla's as FA suggested).

Do not think of Strongmen as "BP-vig Counters". Sure, they are, but they do not define a scum team as "strong". Instead they are tools to alleviate the vast amounts of pressure from town power roles. As soon as they are gone, via those same BP-vigs or any other method, the scum team has no reasonable way to get rid of them.

4-man scum teams in a 28-player game inherently makes that scum team weak, recruiting power not withstanding. 6/8 of the main scum teams, and all of the cult were vulnerable to race checks. town and scum combined had 7 race checkers in addition to the 2 cops explicitly in town's control. the random chance for anyone of those to hit any scum vulnerable to them is ridiculously high.

My solutions would be to give the vigs only a 1-shot communal BP so the cumulative number of shots it would take for them all to die is decreased from 6-->4. I am on the fence whether or not all their targets should die as well, since they are effective cops as well. TWIE should not have been a race checker. Thematically, it does make sense Kuroi and RM were race checkers, but in compensation, either give more immunity to scum (which is not palpable) or change their check to something special like my fake claim "your target is able/not able to be recruited to your faction"

Cult was probably a tad weaker then it could have been. Mainly again, it also had no way to deal with the cop-vigs, or race checkers. I think the alternate kill/cult is compensated by being able to cult after the leader dies and also cult mafia (if anything that's appreciably stronger than 'cult until leader dies'). Making the cult leader race-immune + giving the cult kill a one-time strongman modifier might have been better

---

Town played well enough to win... but like, how hard was it? The amount of thinking, scum hunting, and the like required was minimal. I saw competent scum hunting from Heartless past day 3. I mean real scum hunting, like actually bothering to do VCA, and look back over the game. Toog and Exp gave fine reads lists, but again, it's just like, PoE via roles.

Major failures from town were,

lynching Kuroi
thinking that Nosferatu had to be redirected instead of lying, and never revisiting that point ever.
Expedience vig. (I mean...)

Major failures from scum were,

WT shooting MB
Cult not communicating with Me
me claiming Individual against of West Empire

---

Disclaimer: I am a bit salty

[ActionDan]

i still thing there was a crazy excess of strongmen in this game though.

are you kidding me

there were three unclutable bluet proof vigs

I think she is (hopefully)

[ActionDan]

We rolecopped you, then strongman'd you. That was two actions. We did that for the sake of efficiency with our role abilities. I'm sure if we could, we'd have preferred to kill off a Vig via the same actions.

without strongmen, would you also advocate taking out the doctor/BG/Roleblocker/jailkeeper too?

[ActionDan]

BBM was lying though.

[ActionDan]

What if -on N1- NR visited Titus (and they did), and I decided to pay NR a visit myself, and then some scum faction decided to call my bluff and shoot me?? Do you think the town would have still had any realistic chance to win if all 3 Champs got killed on N1??

actually 2 of you would live. but neither would have a vest

[ActionDan]

Wulden deserved to lose because Tim hung himself with miller claim or whatever, and for not killing rach over wake

Rb claimed miller. Definite mistake that. I can guarantee it would not have mattered. Same difference with shooting Rach vs Wake. I maintain that not being a mistake at the time anyway.

[ActionDan]

Honestly the FA claim was the best it could be.

[ActionDan]

rb's town play was terrifying though

It was really sad sawing him culted.

It now makes sense why you suddenly suspected him D4. That was frustrating