Gistou (Over!)
-
-
Nahdia They/ThemScheherazadeThey/Them
- Scheherazade
- Scheherazade
- Posts: 10626
- Joined: February 14, 2016
- Pronoun: They/Them
it was probably best the undead were given the possibility of a traitor. yeah it made us blow up but if it hadnt been there, we would have been insanely powerful.
pretty funny that we tried recruiting No Retreat who ended up being the most wary of the New Humanity Treaty in the end.we're all made of stories | remember to take your b12 | sign up for a GTKAS thread! (request access here)
"I’m going to harness love for epidemiological purposes."-Zaphkael, 2020-
-
Nahdia They/ThemScheherazadeThey/Them
- Scheherazade
- Scheherazade
- Posts: 10626
- Joined: February 14, 2016
- Pronoun: They/Them
i still thing there was a crazy excess of strongmen in this game though.we're all made of stories | remember to take your b12 | sign up for a GTKAS thread! (request access here)
"I’m going to harness love for epidemiological purposes."-Zaphkael, 2020-
-
ActionDan He/HimJack of All TradesHe/Him
- Jack of All Trades
- Jack of All Trades
- Posts: 7623
- Joined: November 15, 2011
- Pronoun: He/Him
- Location: Inside the Trojan Horse
This was a very well designed game. Factions / roles / wincons / abilities / flavor / etc. were both enjoyable to read and play with.
As Mastin as since realized though, balance was off. And limiting the power of the BP-vigs and race checkers would be the fix (and not tampering with Vanilla's as FA suggested).
Do not think of Strongmen as "BP-vig Counters". Sure, they are, but they do not define a scum team as "strong". Instead they are tools to alleviate the vast amounts of pressure from town power roles. As soon as they are gone, via those same BP-vigs or any other method, the scum team has no reasonable way to get rid of them.
4-man scum teams in a 28-player game inherently makes that scum team weak, recruiting power not withstanding. 6/8 of the main scum teams, and all of the cult were vulnerable to race checks. town and scum combined had 7 race checkers in addition to the 2 cops explicitly in town's control. the random chance for anyone of those to hit any scum vulnerable to them is ridiculously high.
My solutions would be to give the vigs only a 1-shot communal BP so the cumulative number of shots it would take for them all to die is decreased from 6-->4. I am on the fence whether or not all their targets should die as well, since they are effective cops as well. TWIE should not have been a race checker. Thematically, it does make sense Kuroi and RM were race checkers, but in compensation, either give more immunity to scum (which is not palpable) or change their check to something special like my fake claim "your target is able/not able to be recruited to your faction"
Cult was probably a tad weaker then it could have been. Mainly again, it also had no way to deal with the cop-vigs, or race checkers. I think the alternate kill/cult is compensated by being able to cult after the leader dies and also cult mafia (if anything that's appreciably stronger than 'cult until leader dies'). Making the cult leader race-immune + giving the cult kill a one-time strongman modifier might have been better
---
Town played well enough to win... but like, how hard was it? The amount of thinking, scum hunting, and the like required was minimal. I saw competent scum hunting from Heartless past day 3. I mean real scum hunting, like actually bothering to do VCA, and look back over the game. Toog and Exp gave fine reads lists, but again, it's just like, PoE via roles.
Major failures from town were,
lynching Kuroi
thinking that Nosferatu had to be redirected instead of lying, and never revisiting that point ever.
Expedience vig. (I mean...)
Major failures from scum were,
WT shooting MB
Cult not communicating with Me
me claiming Individual against of West Empire
---
Disclaimer: I am a bit saltyI'll give you a moment to let that sink in-
-
A Song of Ice and Fire Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Posts: 1157
- Joined: July 10, 2016
are you kidding meIn post 8526, Nahdia wrote:i still thing there was a crazy excess of strongmen in this game though.
there were three unclutable bluet proof vigsHydra of Frozen Angel and Firebringer-
-
A Song of Ice and Fire Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Posts: 1157
- Joined: July 10, 2016
@Tim
dave was never around!
even I couldn't communicate with himHydra of Frozen Angel and Firebringer-
-
ActionDan He/HimJack of All TradesHe/Him
- Jack of All Trades
- Jack of All Trades
- Posts: 7623
- Joined: November 15, 2011
- Pronoun: He/Him
- Location: Inside the Trojan Horse
I think she is (hopefully)In post 8528, A Song of Ice and Fire wrote:
are you kidding meIn post 8526, Nahdia wrote:i still thing there was a crazy excess of strongmen in this game though.
there were three unclutable bluet proof vigsI'll give you a moment to let that sink in-
-
Nahdia They/ThemScheherazadeThey/Them
- Scheherazade
- Scheherazade
- Posts: 10626
- Joined: February 14, 2016
- Pronoun: They/Them
i'm not kidding. there was an excess of bulletproofs too. the arms war of tons of strongmen and tons of BPs just makes both roles kind of dumb and frustrating for everyone involved.we're all made of stories | remember to take your b12 | sign up for a GTKAS thread! (request access here)
"I’m going to harness love for epidemiological purposes."-Zaphkael, 2020-
-
A Song of Ice and Fire Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Posts: 1157
- Joined: July 10, 2016
-
-
Nahdia They/ThemScheherazadeThey/Them
- Scheherazade
- Scheherazade
- Posts: 10626
- Joined: February 14, 2016
- Pronoun: They/Them
just be sparing with who you assign bulletproof modifiers to and you don't need to give both scumteams and unlimited strongman. the right way to do strongmen (and ninjas for that matter) IMO is to have it be a limited use factional ability.we're all made of stories | remember to take your b12 | sign up for a GTKAS thread! (request access here)
"I’m going to harness love for epidemiological purposes."-Zaphkael, 2020-
-
A Song of Ice and Fire Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Posts: 1157
- Joined: July 10, 2016
there wasn'tIn post 8531, Nahdia wrote:i'm not kidding. there was an excess of bulletproofs too. the arms war of tons of strongmen and tons of BPs just makes both roles kind of dumb and frustrating for everyone involved.
the only tool scum could scum possibly use to prevent the end game you observed was using strongman shots.
The very core try for blancing this was with putting strongmans in it.
and That was not enoughHydra of Frozen Angel and Firebringer-
-
Nahdia They/ThemScheherazadeThey/Them
- Scheherazade
- Scheherazade
- Posts: 10626
- Joined: February 14, 2016
- Pronoun: They/Them
and yet, if you took out the strongmen and the vast majority of the bulletproofs, you suddenly have a setup that makes less people feel cheated. amazing how that works.we're all made of stories | remember to take your b12 | sign up for a GTKAS thread! (request access here)
"I’m going to harness love for epidemiological purposes."-Zaphkael, 2020-
-
A Song of Ice and Fire Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Posts: 1157
- Joined: July 10, 2016
I agreeIn post 8533, Nahdia wrote:just be sparing with who you assign bulletproof modifiers to and you don't need to give both scumteams and unlimited strongman. the right way to do strongmen (and ninjas for that matter) IMO is to have it be a limited use factional ability.
thats what I was trying to say. the setup gave scums no chance to win beside those two strongmans.
and cult left screwed cuase the other two team couldn't use their strongman shots properly.
The amount of BP which were thrown around was really really bad. if we only could eleminate those two vigs we had a Chance to pull this offHydra of Frozen Angel and Firebringer-
-
Nahdia They/ThemScheherazadeThey/Them
- Scheherazade
- Scheherazade
- Posts: 10626
- Joined: February 14, 2016
- Pronoun: They/Them
man i sound complainy and that wasn't my intention. it was just kinda my impression that in the pursuit of balancing the teams, things got kind of out of hand and everything might have done better with just dialing every team's power back in this area. but /shrug, im no expert.we're all made of stories | remember to take your b12 | sign up for a GTKAS thread! (request access here)
"I’m going to harness love for epidemiological purposes."-Zaphkael, 2020-
-
A Song of Ice and Fire Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Posts: 1157
- Joined: July 10, 2016
I'm not saying anyone was cheated or not. My whole point about balance if for anyone who is watching the game and wants to get ideas for their futer games. This game was really townsided by definition and whoever talk otherwise is not really paying attention or just assumes oh fuck there was a cult so it was op let town get whatever makes them Imba.In post 8535, Nahdia wrote:and yet, if you took out the strongmen and the vast majority of the bulletproofs, you suddenly have a setup that makes less people feel cheated. amazing how that works.
I'm not trying to critizie what mastin did. what she did was pretty much amazing and it was so fun. I'm just saying it had a great room for making it better - there is basically no perfect but we can move toward perfection can't we?Hydra of Frozen Angel and Firebringer-
-
ActionDan He/HimJack of All TradesHe/Him
- Jack of All Trades
- Jack of All Trades
- Posts: 7623
- Joined: November 15, 2011
- Pronoun: He/Him
- Location: Inside the Trojan Horse
We rolecopped you, then strongman'd you. That was two actions. We did that for the sake of efficiency with our role abilities. I'm sure if we could, we'd have preferred to kill off a Vig via the same actions.
without strongmen, would you also advocate taking out the doctor/BG/Roleblocker/jailkeeper too?I'll give you a moment to let that sink in-
-
A Song of Ice and Fire Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Posts: 1157
- Joined: July 10, 2016
without strongman this game was like just give the town victory.
your just pissed about your death and your not seeing the whole picture nahdia.Hydra of Frozen Angel and Firebringer-
-
dramonic Survivor
- Survivor
- Survivor
- Posts: 15221
- Joined: May 17, 2009
- Location: The land of plush
I dunno why I won, but yay?I'm a hoot
Stream: twitch.tv/dramonic
-If you stick your ear close enough to the game thread you can actually hear dram suffer in real life.-Beeboy
-Being obtuse is not a consequence of being a mod, it's a prerequisite. I think you may just have overestimated my intelligence before.-Korts-
-
Luna Fox Jack of All Trades
- Jack of All Trades
- Jack of All Trades
- Posts: 7637
- Joined: September 4, 2015
Kinda funny now that i think about it:
Also my 4th post in undead thread:In post 103, Luna Fox wrote:I think that Tim's scum, and BBMolla's town.~Gotta stay happy, Everyone's your friend~-
-
ActionDan He/HimJack of All TradesHe/Him
- Jack of All Trades
- Jack of All Trades
- Posts: 7623
- Joined: November 15, 2011
- Pronoun: He/Him
- Location: Inside the Trojan Horse
-
-
RachMarie HUGS ♥
- HUGS ♥
- HUGS ♥
- Posts: 13911
- Joined: January 9, 2012
- Location: Buffalo, NY
I would have hated being recruited I was trying so HARD for a town win
I also would have hated becoming scum in the end and having to try to kill peeps
NERO YOU SHOULD NOT HAVE KILLED MY GF GRRRRRR
The death scene with both Wake and Exp actually brought real tears to my eyes, I kind of really got totally into being my role as Nicholas and I think it showed at times in the game, and I also think it helped me play better than I normally do.BRAND NEW Get to know me http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=61&t=69243
Like the phoenix I am rising from the ashes
chilledtea: We played bad on day 2 when we lynched rach.
YT Channel https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC0psF_ ... Jpw/videos-
-
Frozen Angel SheQueen ShiftyShe
- Queen Shifty
- Queen Shifty
- Posts: 18753
- Joined: October 26, 2015
- Pronoun: She
rach that was an awful thing to do but that was our best move at that point. we should have played toward our wincon so there was thatFalse tears bring pain to those around you
False smile brings pain to one's self
"Frozen Like Your Heart." -Ginngie-
-
RachMarie HUGS ♥
- HUGS ♥
- HUGS ♥
- Posts: 13911
- Joined: January 9, 2012
- Location: Buffalo, NY
oh I understand and Mastin (read both dead threads now) is right Nicholas should have been recruited by cult or shot by scum at night.
Reason I did not out myself early on and CC cephir was because I had not yet recruited and I saw too much risk of becoming the usual lynch bait for town paranoia which was highly anti anything not human right then. So I hunkered down and thought What would Nicholas do here? He is a hunter, so I will hunt;
Hunt for the best partner to help me win the game for us and for town
Hunt both scum teams and get them dead any way I can
Hunt for townies that I can clear and kind of be a weak cop
Hunt for people to block to prevent catastrophe. kind of a weak jk
In the end like Nicholas himself, it was not the most elegant, but it got the job done.
And I do still love you Nero but take this in the vein it is meant DAMNIT STOP BEING SO F***ING STUBBORN AND HOLDING GRUDGES dude yes you were ticked off about Exp outing you, but you outed me too dude. The masons claim was for all intents and purposes pretty accurate really. We were working for town, and we were in complete alignment on our win con.
Really glad your other head voted for the treaty and hammered it.BRAND NEW Get to know me http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=61&t=69243
Like the phoenix I am rising from the ashes
chilledtea: We played bad on day 2 when we lynched rach.
YT Channel https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC0psF_ ... Jpw/videos-
-
Titus She/herMoon WalkerShe/her
- Moon Walker
- Moon Walker
- Posts: 80307
- Joined: May 3, 2013
- Pronoun: She/her
Nero, why did you shoot me when we were confirmed town to each other in our PMs?ShowThe scum had the misfortune of Titus being absurdly accurate on day one.Really quite impressed by that.~Drixx
You're letting Titus win the game by herself.Good luck now I guess.You have no chance to win.~Tywin
GTKTitus Part 2
Titus Academy
VLA Friday nights until Sunday morning.
All hail the Scum Empress!-
-
Nahdia They/ThemScheherazadeThey/Them
- Scheherazade
- Scheherazade
- Posts: 10626
- Joined: February 14, 2016
- Pronoun: They/Them
some protection should exist but yeah you could take out a lot of it.In post 8539, ActionDan wrote:We rolecopped you, then strongman'd you. That was two actions. We did that for the sake of efficiency with our role abilities. I'm sure if we could, we'd have preferred to kill off a Vig via the same actions.
without strongmen, would you also advocate taking out the doctor/BG/Roleblocker/jailkeeper too?
i mean, i think my point is pretty reasonable but OK if you say so dude.In post 8540, A Song of Ice and Fire wrote:without strongman this game was like just give the town victory.
your just pissed about your death and your not seeing the whole picture nahdia.we're all made of stories | remember to take your b12 | sign up for a GTKAS thread! (request access here)
"I’m going to harness love for epidemiological purposes."-Zaphkael, 2020-
-
MathBlade He/HimTechnical SupportHe/Him
- Technical Support
- Technical Support
- Posts: 42761
- Joined: September 9, 2013
- Pronoun: He/Him
- Location: Western US
Copyright © MafiaScum. All rights reserved.