Gistou (Over!)

[Almost50]

Well, first and foremost: I can't even begin to describe how delightful this game was both concerning setup & mechanics AND flavour.

I can only say this:

@Mastin:

Pre-In me in ANY AND ALL your future larges.

[copper223]

Bacde was litterally the worst person who could survive from your group

Yep cause unfortunately there were a ton of vigs. this game, otherwise he would have been perfect, cause as scum, if the only options are kill Bacde or don't kill anyone, there is a good chance I'd choose the latter.

[Almost50]

Funny how the night action went. I laughed a lot at DGB choices. Not only did she pick Isolationists on the first 2 nights, but the farce is they both died on the same night.

[Frozen Angel]

That wasn't supposed to be an offensive sentence against bacde , its just he had o much tension on himself. culting him was suicide.

[Almost50]

@Frozen:

Why would anyone "strongman" target a PGO? Why sacrifice the strongman?? A PGO would NOT survive a simple NK, but will take down their killer with them.

I claimed PGO for 2 reasons:

1- Make the scum think twice before trying to kill me. They would have had to assume it was a 1-for-1 trade, so this bought me a couple of nights.

2- Deter the two TOWN champions from visiting me at night as well. I didn't want to die on the hands of my allies.

Fortunately (and w/o me knowing it at the time) this instantly earned me a town read from specifically the other 2 champs, so yeah.. that went well.

I also was VERY careful picking whom I'd target with a NK, bc I didn't want to kill the other Champions either. Titus going down early was bad, but then I earned a BP and I could safely target anyone from the West as well.

[Almost50]

Gotta target the right person to get a guilty.
Gotta leave PRs alive for them to drive guilties.
Gotta not have the multiball factions muddying the waters with fakeguilties either.

This post gets a golden star from me.

[Frozen Angel]

Almost your pgo claim was a great move ,

I expected the mafia strongmans to eleminate the three vig circles cuase they were THE ONLY PEOPLE who could. there was NO OTHER WAY for getting rid of you and NO FACTION could win over you

I mean this is a simple math

but whatever!

[Frozen Angel]

Gotta target the right person to get a guilty.
Gotta leave PRs alive for them to drive guilties.
Gotta not have the multiball factions muddying the waters with fakeguilties either.

This post gets a golden star from me.

You had 9 conftown players , 8 investigatives , 3 vigs (counted in conftowns as well) , 1 blocker , 2 neighborizers , 2 alignment cops (one was counted in conftowns) , 1 bodyguard , 1 doctor and 1 jailkeeper

don't mess with me

what can a cop who get a vanilla from this town ^ and loose access to the rest of them in night 1 can win this game

[Frozen Angel]

3 conftown uncultable bullet proof vigs

and investigators everywhere ...

who can a cult without ability to recruit each night , without ability to recruit two people with same race can have a chance in late game against this if other scums don't do anything against the power roles of town

I told this to mastian inthread and she answered : well assume it went differently. it went differently how. there shouldn't be vannilas in a setup like this. there shouldn't be this much tools for confiming a player , town needed absoiloutly no skill to detect scum for winning the game. I would win this game if you weren't all conftown like this.

I'm not joking at least accept the obvious fact in front of you

[Frozen Angel]

I'm not upset about this

I'm not goig to get crazy and I'm not denying I had fun. this game was so fun but it wasn't balanced for the reasons I mentioned.

[Frozen Angel]

how can a cult who gets a vanilla from this town ^ and loose access to the rest of them in night 1 can win this game

fixed

[Almost50]

Also funny how the two who gave me more headache were the two Vanillas (Wake & rb), and that both Heartless and Wake (my own faction members) didn't trust me on D1. I mean, I received more heat from my own faction members than from all other players combined (with the exception of rb).

Many players did well, I'd say. Rach not only contributed to the town win greatly, but almost single handed carried her faction AND the Undead with it. BRILLIANT steering.

No Retreat picked their targets well (with the exception of that N1 kill on Titus).

And even Luna helped a lot with that N1 check on SS.

DGB's day play is super. Imagine that I town read that slot since she subbed in, when I actually was distrusting almost everyone!!

[Almost50]

You had 9 conftown players , 8 investigatives , 3 vigs (counted in conftowns as well) , 1 blocker , 2 neighborizers , 2 alignment cops (one was counted in conftowns) , 1 bodyguard , 1 doctor and 1 jailkeeper

don't mess with me

You keep saying this, but you're missing:

- one of the vigs got NK'd on N1
- The Town Doc ate rope on D1
- The whole of the Undead PT were slain by N2 (with the exception of KC/Bacde who were far from being confirmed, if only for the claim there might be a Wulden spy in that PT).

It is not the town's fault scum didn't make the right kills. It is not the town's fault the investigatives and vigs made the right calls.

Me and No retreat were only confirmed when we claimed. Nobody thought we were confirmed before that point. We could've been pushed to -at least- claim and get NK'd by scum, but no serious pushes were made on us either, which -again- is NOT OUR FAULT.

All in all, I say most players did well. It was unfortunate we lost some GOOD players early (both alignments) as it would have been more challenging it they lived longer, but then again someone had to die and those who lived longer were no less challenging.

[Nero Cain]

And I do still love you Nero but take this in the vein it is meant DAMNIT STOP BEING SO F***ING STUBBORN AND HOLDING GRUDGES dude yes you were ticked off about Exp outing you, but you outed me too dude

you do know the reason i killed him was b/c me and a50 were working together? Like Like he agreed to kill whomever was scum but BOTH of us somewhat suspected Exp. Ditto the next night, I let him kill ASOFI and I killed the one he prob wouldn't shoot to avoid crosskills.

Nero, why did you shoot me when we were confirmed town to each other in our PMs?

I apparently didn't see any crumb. I also kinda thought I was an SK.

It was not about you Luna, it was about Exped outing him he was still irked about that.

I was but I was really questioning whether or not the treaty fucks over humans.

[Nero Cain]

bc I didn't want to kill the other Champions either.

I swore Mastin said in the dead thread you thought you needed to kill me.


also sorry Titus

[Frozen Angel]

You had 9 conftown players , 8 investigatives , 3 vigs (counted in conftowns as well) , 1 blocker , 2 neighborizers , 2 alignment cops (one was counted in conftowns) , 1 bodyguard , 1 doctor and 1 jailkeeper

don't mess with me

You keep saying this, but you're missing:

- one of the vigs got NK'd on N1
- The Town Doc ate rope on D1
- The whole of the Undead PT were slain by N2 (with the exception of KC/Bacde who were far from being confirmed, if only for the claim there might be a Wulden spy in that PT).

It is not the town's fault scum didn't make the right kills. It is not the town's fault the investigatives and vigs made the right calls.

Me and No retreat were only confirmed when we claimed. Nobody thought we were confirmed before that point. We could've been pushed to -at least- claim and get NK'd by scum, but no serious pushes were made on us either, which -again- is NOT OUR FAULT.

All in all, I say most players did well. It was unfortunate we lost some GOOD players early (both alignments) as it would have been more challenging it they lived longer, but then again someone had to die and those who lived longer were no less challenging.

first of all your the wrong one.

sure they died night one but the rest lived. someone should have died night 1 thats obviously one of the players. there were no way for any faction to reach the end game with less than 3 or 4 confirmed towns in current setup NO Matter who dies in early game unless Strongmans live long enough to detect and get rid of 8 or 9 very important players of town . All of them

There was no right kill after day 4 for any factions in game.

It was not cults fualt to get a vanilla on night 1 and night 3 and be afull vanill faction for the rest of the game. It was setups fualt for putting such things in play in the first place. the setup is really based on how night actions go through to give a really tiny chance for scums to live enough for doing anything else which must be vise versa in a mafia game (means town will need to do their actions carefully to hold the game enough for detecting mafia players)

this is why the game was not balanced

[Frozen Angel]

and being an IC but revealing yet is not really impactful of being IC in the first place.

haveing a 5 players masonary which they know there cant be any isolationist or cults in the starting hand of them only a wulen spy theroy or shit is not changing the fact there was a 5 player masonary in this game

its not about revealing it. Its about the fact no scum can win if the live. There were just too many of such stuff in this game

and yet still your not mentioning the amount of race checks and 2 alignment checkers + 1 watcher.

as I said if I were town I would convince you all to full claim day 3 or 4 and I would break this game with claims. It obviously doable.

[Almost50]

FTR;

Champions were not BP. We only gained a BP vest when one of us died.

Now consider this:

What if -on N1- NR visited Titus (and they did), and I decided to pay NR a visit myself, and then some scum faction decided to call my bluff and shoot me?? Do you think the town would have still had any realistic chance to win if all 3 Champs got killed on N1??

As I mentioned in the game, myself and Nero usually go head-to-head at some point. The fact we avoided eachother at night and worked together by day was in fact superb play and this alone contributed greatly to the town win.

I mean, Heartless neighbourized Cephrir the night I killed him. If Cephrir lived longer it could've had a very bad effect on the game for town (DGB also targeted Ceph with their confirmation message that night, then got neighbourized herself, so she could've been recruited by the Isolationists next and then Heartless gets offed and that neighbourhood would've gone far acting like a masonry for all we know.)

There were plenty of ifs and buts that could've swayed the game in ANY direction.

Oh, well. I guess everybody sees what they want to see. Personally I thought it was challenging enough until the very end.

[Almost50]

Btw, what would have happened if we rejected the treaty?? Just out of curiosity.

[Nero Cain]

Rach would have turned into scum

[copper223]

Rach becomes scum and you need to kill her before winning the game.

[Frozen Angel]

balancing is focusing and checking all the if's.

the "if" your talking about is the

only

way a scum faction can win this game and its really really really unlikely .

[Frozen Angel]

As I said there were 9 conftown players in this setup

the only way for a scum faction to win was to have more members than them. at any time (assuming they kill the very single one of the other players or cult them)

we had 3 kills per cycle (day + night) town had 4

[Frozen Angel]

I mean that is the first time I see a town with more killing than scums all together.

[Frozen Angel]

again thats just not assuming all the things together.

with that ^ town had 8 investigatives... like 7 alignment checkers (2 hard and 5 soft (with race checking))

THERE was litterally no chance logically or mathematically for scum factions to survive in this hellfire