Mini Normal 1843 - Endgame


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Post Post #400 (ISO) » Sun Oct 23, 2016 7:35 am

Post by BlueBloodedToffee »

Reading up now.
In post 60, Sotty7 wrote:Happy enough with
hoopla's post
on Michel to have him as my first town read. Hoopla piggybacks off this with a slight town read as well, even though she probably would point this out as scum or town.
Who is the first point about?
In post 70, Raskolnikov wrote: I don't like hoopla vote justified on association; If you scumread someone enough this early to look at associations, I think you'd keep pushing them instead. is a little ridiculous.
Which Hoopla vote is justified by association? Also, the rest of this post was theory talk and I really don't like it upon rereading.
In post 77, MichelSableheart wrote:Not a fan of the Rask wagon. At the very least, he seems to be putting some effort into scumhunting, and the wishy-washyness is more likely to come from someone who has no clue as to who is scum, IMO.

Also, looking over goodmorning's ISO, I don't see a lot there that's making me feel good about the slot. Better bandwagon then Rask, IMO.

Vote: goodmorning
Why is wishy-washy more likely to come from town than it is to come from scum who don't want to appear to be pushing opinions too strongly?

Also, why did you choose GM to ISO?
In post 92, Raskolnikov wrote: Will anyone see my problem with this?
I get your problem, I'm just not sure if it makes Hoopla scum.

This is your second post with a lot of words that don't really say much.
Meta this. Meta that. Meta Everything. Meta is not a good scum-hunting tool. PEOPLE CAN MANIPULATE THEIR META. Stop it. Stop. It. Now.
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Post Post #401 (ISO) » Sun Oct 23, 2016 8:01 am

Post by CloudKicker »

In post 386, TwoFace wrote:
In post 384, CloudKicker wrote:literraly who cares about a dice tag, how in the world is it alignement indicative literraly who cares about a dice tag, how in the world is it alignement indicative literraly who cares about a dice tag, how in the world is it alignement indicative literraly who cares about a dice tag, how in the world is it alignement indicative literraly who cares about a dice tag, how in the world is it alignement indicative literraly who cares about a dice tag, how in the world is it alignement indicative
Tell me how you really feel about dice tags
Its just complettly non-alignement indicative at the start, imho. I just feel you guys are mostly interested in smal arguements about semantics or misunderstanding than to real based on tone and general behaviors, WHICH IS IMO MUCH MORE INDICATIVE like akwardness and the choice of words.
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Post Post #402 (ISO) » Sun Oct 23, 2016 8:15 am

Post by BlueBloodedToffee »

In post 104, MariaR wrote:Rask is town everyone get off right now.
VOTE: Good morning
Everything they've said is cringy and seems forced to me
Why is Rask town?

Can you give some examples of GM's posting that you didn't like?
In post 119, Sotty7 wrote:Feels like he started the wagon then panicked a little when it took off. I also remember BBTScum being very no nonsense cutting to the heart of the matter, were as townBBT being more open.
Couple of things; why does scum!BBT panic when a wagon takes off? Second thing, your meta-read is flat out inaccurate.
In post 122, MariaR wrote:I'm having mixed feelings cause the first part of Scotty's post felt like BS but I agree with the BBT read started the bw and when rask towntold knew it wasn't gonna get far and got off rather quick
Of course could just be town who saw the towntell and got off but saying it's a scumread makes me seem smart so!
This is scum. The whole 'fence-sitting' thing looks like scum sitting back and waiting to see if a wagon takes off or not and then evaluating their options. Same question to you; why does scum!BBT jump off a forming wagon? And if you can see the action from both sides (town and scum) then surely the action becomes null and you have no justification for your scum read. Right? Because it looks like you're trying to buddy Sotty (syncing up reads) but trying not to be so obvious about it by slating the post first.
In post 123, goodmorning wrote:tbqh i just expect better of toffee by this point than 'oh, let's just bamdwagons'
I need to have time to invest in the game.

VOTE: Maria

Can this be a thing please?
Meta this. Meta that. Meta Everything. Meta is not a good scum-hunting tool. PEOPLE CAN MANIPULATE THEIR META. Stop it. Stop. It. Now.
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Post Post #403 (ISO) » Sun Oct 23, 2016 8:19 am

Post by CloudKicker »

Can i get a vote count please
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Post Post #404 (ISO) » Sun Oct 23, 2016 8:34 am

Post by BlueBloodedToffee »

In post 162, VictorDeAngelo wrote: I'm with BlackVoid. BBT a good vote.

VOTE: BlueBloodedToffee

I also think MariaR could be a good vote as well.
Reasons for your vote on me and why would Maria be a good vote?
In post 189, CloudKicker wrote: Dont like
Scotty TF
Talk about these scum reads?
In post 192, VictorDeAngelo wrote: I'm not buying it.
VOTE: Cloudkicker
Why did the Cloud scum read overtake your scum read on Maria/myself?
Meta this. Meta that. Meta Everything. Meta is not a good scum-hunting tool. PEOPLE CAN MANIPULATE THEIR META. Stop it. Stop. It. Now.
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Post Post #405 (ISO) » Sun Oct 23, 2016 9:03 am

Post by CloudKicker »

In post 372, CloudKicker wrote:
<3 : maria ( shes actually . leaning t)
+ bv gm jack rask maybe i forget some , maybe hoop here too
. tf leaning t, bbt + inno that i havent read
-sotty? wierd pushes + michel bad recent post, victor gut + bad lines and im lazy to read too much into him so i just put him there.
@BBT more recent reads, please pay attention. Also i def sr michel more than i did sotty and tf, tf is most likely town that is abrasive like it was pointed out recently.
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Post Post #406 (ISO) » Sun Oct 23, 2016 9:34 am

Post by mhsmith0 »

Votecount 1.05
TwoFace (1)
,
BlueBloodedToffee (1)
,
BlueBloodedToffee (2)
, ,

goodmorning (3)
, , ,
MichelSableheart (2)
, ,
BlackVoid (1)
,
VictorDeAngelo (2)
, ,
Sotty7 (2)
, ,
MariaR (1)
,

Day one deadline is Wednesday November 2, 8 AM PST. (expired on 2016-11-02 08:00:00)

With 13 alive, it's 7 to lynch!
[/size]


I Am Innocent has been prodded
Last edited by mhsmith0 on Sun Oct 23, 2016 7:13 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Conq: you, sir, are great at being town.
BATMAN: Only jugg was the only one we didn’t scum read at least not me
Quick: There is little to no chance this slot is Power-Wolfing.
SR: I want to give him a day
Life is simply unfair, don't you think?
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Post Post #407 (ISO) » Sun Oct 23, 2016 9:38 am

Post by MariaR »

Do you have any idea what fence sitting is BBT?
I was having Mixed feeling on Scoty because part of his post I agreed with and the other I didn't quite simple.
I bet Maria is scum this game
~Firebringer
Na Maria isn't towny enough to be scum this game~
Charloux

MariaR goes for the uwu owo tsundere-dere look but you never know if she has a knife behind her back.~
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Post Post #408 (ISO) » Sun Oct 23, 2016 9:39 am

Post by BlueBloodedToffee »

I know what fence sitting is - and you did it.

Are you gonna respond to anything else?
Meta this. Meta that. Meta Everything. Meta is not a good scum-hunting tool. PEOPLE CAN MANIPULATE THEIR META. Stop it. Stop. It. Now.
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Post Post #409 (ISO) » Sun Oct 23, 2016 9:42 am

Post by MariaR »

In post 408, BlueBloodedToffee wrote:I know what fence sitting is - and you did it.

Are you gonna respond to anything else?
That's not fence sitting but okay
and I don't need to because if you were reading the thread you would see I already answered that question before you even asked.
Are you skimming or need to catch up or did you just "miss" the post?
I bet Maria is scum this game
~Firebringer
Na Maria isn't towny enough to be scum this game~
Charloux

MariaR goes for the uwu owo tsundere-dere look but you never know if she has a knife behind her back.~
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Post Post #410 (ISO) » Sun Oct 23, 2016 9:55 am

Post by TwoFace »

In post 408, BlueBloodedToffee wrote:I know what fence sitting is - and you did it.

Are you gonna respond to anything else?
What's the difference between fence sitting and being unsure?
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Post Post #411 (ISO) » Sun Oct 23, 2016 10:22 am

Post by CloudKicker »

In post 410, TwoFace wrote:
In post 408, BlueBloodedToffee wrote:I know what fence sitting is - and you did it.

Are you gonna respond to anything else?
What's the difference between fence sitting and being unsure?
Curious about this too. I thought fence-sitting was like exactly what michel did, just not taking a position at all ever even if not so confident like watching something happen inside the fence and not participating.
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Post Post #412 (ISO) » Sun Oct 23, 2016 10:38 am

Post by TwoFace »

Michael is voting somebody. Doesn't that mean he's taken a stance?
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Post Post #413 (ISO) » Sun Oct 23, 2016 11:05 am

Post by MichelSableheart »

In post 369, VictorDeAngelo wrote:
In post 321, MichelSableheart wrote: Victor placed a random vote, without actually contributing anything useful. I've seen townies do that, but it's disappointing. Victor, why did post #35 contain nothing but a random vote? Why you didn't give an opinion on Hoopla's playstyle at the time?
Because it was page 2 and nothing in the game seemed worth commenting on.

Traditional, the portion of the game your looking at is the least profitable in my opinion. Scum have the easiest time hiding in the opening pages of the game where everything is random. You've mentioned townreads in the post but no real scumreads yet. Do you still feel comfortable with your goodmorning vote?
The reason I'm asking the question, as should be clear from the context, is that there was something in the game that was worth commenting on: Hoopla's playstyle at the time. It's exactly the lack of comment on this that I want explained. "There was nothing worth commenting on" therefore is not a good explanation.

And yes, I'm still happy with my goodmorning vote (as I would have unvoted otherwise). The analysis of the very early game is still the best thing I have to base my vote on.
In post 372, CloudKicker wrote: Michel's excuse to sheep Bv read is weak and comes off as fake. I would totally prefer to just not out reads and then come back or form new reads with new information than to take someone elses reads and thats assuming you tr bv and sure about that read
As I mentioned, I'm planning to read those 10 pages again with Bv's opinions in mind, to see if I agree with her assessment. That's not sheeping, that's asking for help in forming opinions.
In post 373, CloudKicker wrote:
In post 367, MichelSableheart wrote: Sotty I
remember as a generally strong player
, though i
t's been some years since I last played with her
. Her play in this game confirms that assessment. She's making solid posts, I can understand the reasoning for the suspicions she voices. Overall, she
hasn't given me any reason to be suspicious of her, but I can easily see scum her fake the level of townieness she's currently displaying
.
I'm currently townreading her, but mainly because each individual player has a better chance of being town then being scum a priori
.

Maria
is a bit of a spamposter
.
Coming from chat mafia into games with 2 week deadlines will do that for you
,
I suppose
. As for a read on her:
I don't have much on her either, sorry.
The g
ame I played with her where she was town, she completely flipped out when she felt she got unfairly pressured. The game I played with her where she was scum, I mainly remember the way she argued that a townslip made by her scumpartner could have been an intentional slip, and managed to do this in such a way that the argument was completely ignored
.
Nothing of the sort has happened in this game yet
, so the
only thing I can tell you is that her tone here seems to be generally consistent with what I saw in her town game.
Just to precise my thought on this post, i think those reads are so weak. Instead of reading the game's content hes answered bv's questions with meta and it doesnt help anyone here to agree with his reads.

Why do you even bother outing reads that are so shit dude if its not to give the impression you actually read them. The whole meta on maria's scumslip defending thing is soo goddam irrelevant since its how maria wouldve played on something that happened THAT game bro, its not meta on her play.

All michel does is :
meta-read that is weak
, then add a
reason to doubt said read
, then out another read then another reason why its not a hard read.

VOTE: michelsableheart in the top 3 worst post of the game so far
*Explains that the only non-weak reads he has are on BlackVoid, Hoopla and rask
*Is explicitly asked for his thoughts on sotty and Maria
*Proceeds to give his thoughts on those two
*Is attacked because the reads he has on them are weak.
Like, seriously?
In post 400, BlueBloodedToffee wrote:
In post 77, MichelSableheart wrote:Not a fan of the Rask wagon. At the very least, he seems to be putting some effort into scumhunting, and the wishy-washyness is more likely to come from someone who has no clue as to who is scum, IMO.

Also, looking over goodmorning's ISO, I don't see a lot there that's making me feel good about the slot. Better bandwagon then Rask, IMO.

Vote: goodmorning
Why is wishy-washy more likely to come from town than it is to come from scum who don't want to appear to be pushing opinions too strongly?
Town doesn't know who's scum. Every post they read is new information, meaning they are likely to change opinion frequently. By contrast, scum knows who's scum. Every thought they give on someone's scummyness is fake. Believably faking changing your mind is far more difficult to do than faking consistent reads. So scum is not as likely to frequently change their mind as town is.
Also, why did you choose GM to ISO?
That was the bandwagon Hoopla and Sotty abandoned to vote rask.
There is no 'a' in Michel.
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Post Post #414 (ISO) » Sun Oct 23, 2016 11:28 am

Post by CloudKicker »

Michel, when someone ask for your thoughts just dont force bullshit reads because its transparent so next time just admit if you have pretty much nothing of value
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Post Post #415 (ISO) » Sun Oct 23, 2016 3:00 pm

Post by Hoopla »

In post 413, MichelSableheart wrote:The reason I'm asking the question, as should be clear from the context...
Lets not go down this road with Victor again...
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Post Post #416 (ISO) » Sun Oct 23, 2016 4:29 pm

Post by Sotty7 »

In post 400, BlueBloodedToffee wrote:Who is the first point about?
I was calling Michel town.

I'm willing to put a pin in my BBT meta, I can believe it's outdated. That catch up however felt very forced and minimal and I don't like that Maria vote as a result. BBT what's your read on GM v Victor? Are you town reading Hoopla?

Mod - I'm voting Twoface
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Post Post #417 (ISO) » Sun Oct 23, 2016 4:51 pm

Post by Hoopla »

I have a question I forgot to ask TwoFace yesterday:

What's the point of the coinflip when you can simply reflip on decisions where you really want a yes (like flipping again to get on the Victor wagon)?
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Post Post #418 (ISO) » Sun Oct 23, 2016 4:58 pm

Post by TwoFace »

Coin flip is how I decide to vote or unvote. It's detrimental to the game if I never vote a scum read because the flip didn't go my way. Somebody said it's not a well thought out gimmick and while probably true, I'm enjoying myself
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Post Post #419 (ISO) » Sun Oct 23, 2016 7:14 pm

Post by mhsmith0 »

prior VC corrected
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Conq: you, sir, are great at being town.
BATMAN: Only jugg was the only one we didn’t scum read at least not me
Quick: There is little to no chance this slot is Power-Wolfing.
SR: I want to give him a day
Life is simply unfair, don't you think?
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Post Post #420 (ISO) » Sun Oct 23, 2016 7:58 pm

Post by MichelSableheart »

@Cloud: If BlackVoid had asked in order to get a better handle on me, I would agree with you. However, BlackVoid asked because she had weak reads on Sotty and Maria as well, and wanted help. In this case, it's more helpful if I give her what I have, as my thoughts, however weak, might help her form an opinion.
There is no 'a' in Michel.
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Post Post #421 (ISO) » Sun Oct 23, 2016 9:22 pm

Post by VictorDeAngelo »

In post 413, MichelSableheart wrote:
In post 369, VictorDeAngelo wrote:
In post 321, MichelSableheart wrote: Victor placed a random vote, without actually contributing anything useful. I've seen townies do that, but it's disappointing. Victor, why did post #35 contain nothing but a random vote? Why you didn't give an opinion on Hoopla's playstyle at the time?
Because it was page 2 and nothing in the game seemed worth commenting on.

Traditional, the portion of the game your looking at is the least profitable in my opinion. Scum have the easiest time hiding in the opening pages of the game where everything is random. You've mentioned townreads in the post but no real scumreads yet. Do you still feel comfortable with your goodmorning vote?
The reason I'm asking the question, as should be clear from the context, is that there was something in the game that was worth commenting on: Hoopla's playstyle at the time. It's exactly the lack of comment on this that I want explained. "There was nothing worth commenting on" therefore is not a good explanation.

And yes, I'm still happy with my goodmorning vote (as I would have unvoted otherwise). The analysis of the very early game is still the best thing I have to base my vote on.
I think I explained it. I don't believe anything Hoopla did was worth commenting on, because ultimately it's the kind of fluff posting that could come from town or scum. You may feel there's something significant about the use of dice tags but I do not. T
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Post Post #422 (ISO) » Sun Oct 23, 2016 9:22 pm

Post by VictorDeAngelo »

In post 385, TwoFace wrote:
In post 369, VictorDeAngelo wrote:Not sure if I've said it before but I'm buying the coin flipping gimmick. This vote should have come two pages ago and I don't like how it only comes after you've taken pressure for not voting.
That would require me to have actually have been pressured which I wasn't.
Both Sotty and myself had called you out for not voting.
In post 387, Sotty7 wrote:
In post 377, VictorDeAngelo wrote:Also, I think she slipped up when she spoke of BBT spent time on his rask townread as there's no way she reach that conclusion as town which is why she's ignored and not responded to any of my points/questions.
I'd say this would be the strongest point on GM. The RVS thing seems like you both have different beliefs on what can and cannot be found in the opening stage of the game. I don't find that necessary scummy.
True, but the point is less about the initial vote and more how it's persisted despite everything else that's happening.
In post 404, BlueBloodedToffee wrote:
In post 162, VictorDeAngelo wrote: I'm with BlackVoid. BBT a good vote.

VOTE: BlueBloodedToffee

I also think MariaR could be a good vote as well.
Reasons for your vote on me and why would Maria be a good vote?
Both answered in 293.
In post 192, VictorDeAngelo wrote: I'm not buying it.
VOTE: Cloudkicker
Why did the Cloud scum read overtake your scum read on Maria/myself?
Reread 192.

All in all, I'm underwhelmed by this catch up by BBT. Most of what he asked was answered ITT and it feels like he's just trying to look busy. I would still be happy to vote him today.
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Post Post #423 (ISO) » Sun Oct 23, 2016 11:52 pm

Post by TwoFace »

In post 422, VictorDeAngelo wrote:Both Sotty and myself had called you out for not voting.
Not true. You asked me why I wasn't voting to which I answered you. I attempted to vote before sotty said anything and got a tails to which I said I would revisit it later.

Nice try
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Post Post #424 (ISO) » Mon Oct 24, 2016 3:43 am

Post by CloudKicker »

The gm push is bad, michel just came back from afk, says he didnt read and vote one of the towniest tone-wise player with a bad read -> not unvoting

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