DEFCON Mafia 4.0 - СЛАВА РОССИИ МАТЕРИ

[RedCoyote]

Yeah, okay, Total War was in option in DEFCON 3.0. And there was much more dislike with it then. The biggest detractors of Total War in 3.0 were town, whereas one of the stronger proponents was scum.

[Nukebringer]

I claim scum!

What have i missed guys?

~Fire

[Spiffeh]

I'm tempted to vote against Total War and totally be the spoiler here. I'm not really swayed toward either side, but I'm inclined against it just because I think making the game into Texas Justice too early lets the emotions run high and leads too more drama than necessary. I'll peek at the previous games to see what was said about Total War (if it even was an option previously).

At the very least don't do this until everyone has checked in

[Nukebringer]

oh hey I finally rolled town in a large :P
but now I have 23 slots to sort... :shifty:
I'll probably just sheep people who are actually good. (Which is like, everybody. Except me. :roll: )

target acquired!

[Nukebringer]

Drink for every hippie who talks about not going Total War!

I am a hippy and I want peace!
~Fire

[Fate]

Talk is cheap

Nukes are very expensive.

Vote Total War to see everyone's true selves

[Fate]

Troop options for dummies:

Fighter: Ability tracker. (Usefulness for town: 3/10)
Espionage: Cop. (Usefulness for town: 9/10)
Aircraft Carrier: Jailkeeper that stops nukes during the day as well. (Usefulness for town: 8/10)
Battleship: Doctor. (Usefulness for the town: 6/10)
Radar: Target tracker. (Usefulness for the town: 5/10)
Covert Ops Team: Jailkeeper only for Missle Silos (Usefulness for town: 4/10)
Counterintelligence: Bus Driver (Usefulness for town: 0/10 ... Only good for keeping away from scum)
Submarine: Vig. (Usefulness for the town: 7/10)
Eavesdrop: Sometimes hear scum night talk (Usefuleness for the town: 6/10)
Air Base: Kind of like an unlimited Bulletproof sans nukes. (Usefulness for the town: 8/10)
Fallout Shelter: Unlimited Bulletproof for nukes only. (Usefulness for the town: 2/10)
Fail Safe: PGO. (Usefulness for the town: 2/10)
Strategic Missle Defense: Nuke Doctor. (Usefulness for the town: 3/10)

Y'all think this is about right? I haven't read any of the discussion yet. These are my initial interpretations. The usefulness number is just my subjective calculation. If you think I'm missing someone or getting it wrong, please argue with me.

Thank you for this product and or service.

*signs off for now*

[RedCoyote]

Some highlights:

Subject: DEFCON Mafia 3.0 - Over, American Victory!

Total War is bad.

Conventional scenario:

D1-D2, we get:
2 lynches
2 SK night kills
1 Mafia night kill

Total war, we get:
2 lynches
2 SK night kills
2 Mafia night kills
2 day kills from whomever gets the submarine, which is almost assuredly going to be the SK and someone else
Any additional town-directed nukes identify to the mafia/SK who may or may not have PRs

I'm voting for total war

i hope you guys are true americans like me and also want to arm your nuke silos.

I'm going to grab a case of beer and then figure out who to fire my nukes at later.

this is the only american way to win

since the coward french can only drink wine.

Interestingly, MoI flipped his position from the previous game. Who are the other carryovers from 3.0? Me, MoI, LLD, Spy, Fate and Equinox (Nukebringer). Am I missing anyone?

[RedCoyote]

I'm tempted to vote against Total War and totally be the spoiler here. I'm not really swayed toward either side, but I'm inclined against it just because I think making the game into Texas Justice too early lets the emotions run high and leads too more drama than necessary. I'll peek at the previous games to see what was said about Total War (if it even was an option previously).

At the very least don't do this until everyone has checked in

I agree and will do this.

[Spiffeh]

I think we'd get a lot more out of flips from nukes and troop selection than we would out of 2 weeks of talking

And it's not like we lose all discussion anyway

Scum are more likely to dislike the random element of TOTAL WAR and oppose it

[Cheetory6]

Seems like the mechanics are different there?

[GreyICE]

Isn't it basically a free lynch since the SK could kill anyone? Like... I like corpses as much as I always do, but not when mafia gets a kill.

[Cephrir]

I think the nuke doctor is way more useful than 3/10

This. It can also be used to curtail town stupidity. It occurs to me that I'm thinking troops re-happen every night, they do right?

Are we still allowed to discuss stuff during DEFCON 1?

Because if so I see no reason for TOTAL WAR to not happen

Well, nights with investigative powers in play and no scum kill seem pretty thoroughly good, that's where I'm at at this point. Even if you don't see the value in having a couple normal day phases not marred by insanity, which I do.

oh hey I finally rolled town in a large
but now I have 23 slots to sort...
I'll probably just sheep people who are actually good. (Which is like, everybody. Except me. )

Gross post. All sorts of commie pings coming off of it. That GiF caught this as well makes me feel good about him.

How could anyone fail to catch that?

I'm also liking Cheetory so far as he seems relatively analytical compared to the rest of the players that are posting lots.

I have a feeling we are not going to get along

I think the nuke doctor is way more useful than 3/10

I think the odds are small that a town player with Strategic Missle Defense is alive in late game and is effectively stopping nukes on the correct player. Doctor is already a relatively weak card depending on the circumstances, when you limit him to just defending nukes, eh, I just think it's a very situational role.[/quote]

How is it situational? You can SEE nukes. You're not going to miss.

[Cheetory6]

Scum are more likely to dislike the random element of TOTAL WAR and oppose it

This is barf.
Are you actually standing behind that stance in practice? Because I would expect scum to be pretending to be cautious in doing something like this, not to actually try to oppose Total War for some mechanical purpose.

I have a feeling we are not going to get along

Why can't you just be happy for me?

[Errantparabola]

Scum are more likely to dislike the random element of TOTAL WAR and oppose it

i distinctly remember you being in favor of coordinating total war

[RedCoyote]

Seems like the mechanics are different there?

How so? It seems very similar to the previous installment. Almost the same number split (19-5-1 vs 18-5-1). The main difference being additional troop options. If anything, additional troop options necessarily limits the amount of town players that will have Missle Silos. Ergo, scum will have more access to nukes (relatively speaking).

How could anyone fail to catch that?

Did you?

[Errantparabola]

oh i see-- you said that was unrealistic. carry on

[Cheetory6]

D1-D2, we get:
2 lynches
2 SK night kills
1 Mafia night kill

Total war, we get:
2 lynches
2 SK night kills
2 Mafia night kills
2 day kills from whomever gets the submarine, which is almost assuredly going to be the SK and someone else
Any additional town-directed nukes identify to the mafia/SK who may or may not have PRs

I read this super wrong.
For some reason I read the 2 SK night kills and 2 mafia night kills business as all being in one night q.q
Don't mind me.

[RedCoyote]

Another thing Total War advocates must explain: America voted against it in 3.0 and ended up winning the game. Why should we do any different?

[Spiffeh]

Are you actually standing behind that stance in practice? Because I would expect scum to be pretending to be cautious in doing something like this, not to actually try to oppose Total War for some mechanical purpose.

I meant that scum would prefer no TOTAL WAR to TOTAL WAR

The façade they put on for the thread is obviously a different story, but I'd expect them to latch onto the insecurities town players have about TOTAL WAR and ultimately try to get it opposed

[RedCoyote]

Magua had some great posts in 3.0.

[RedCoyote]

Subject: DEFCON Mafia 3.0 - Over, American Victory!

Defcon 4 Guide

Ignorance of the rules is no excuse. Understand things before you make your selections.

1. You get to choose between being able to nuke/defend from a nuke ("missile silo"), and having a PR ("troops").

2. If you choose "Troops", you get to list which PRs you want in the order that you want them. You don't need to include all the items; it can be as little as one. There's a draft, where you're more likely to get things high on the list than low.

If you don't end up with anything on your list, you get a missile silo.

The troop choices are:
Fighter: Rolecop
Espionage: Cop (one faction at a time)
Aircraft Carrier: Roleblocker
Battleship: Doctor
Radar: Tracker (does not track night-kills)
Counterintelligence: Framer/lawyer
Submarine: Anonymous daykill (starting D3)
Eavesdrop: Get PMed 1/6-1/3 of scum QT
Air Base: Immune to night actions
Fallout Shelter: Immune to daykills
Fail Safe: Vengeful

3. Scum get to coordinate their checks. We don't.

4. The SK gets one free pick, outside of the draft.

So, with all that in mind, some advice:

1. Do not choose missile silo. Do not do this.

If all you want is a missile silo, choose Troops and list Submarine as your only choice.

It's critical that we keep this out of scum hands. We may not be able to stop the SK from getting it, but we can make him use his free pick on it, and we can keep scum from getting this altogether.

The more people who do this, the better chance that town gets Submarine instead of scum.

You either get a Submarine, which is awesome, or you get a missile silo, which is what you wanted to begin with.

2. If you're going for troops, I'd advise against a "steal from the scum" mentality. Better to have Espionage than Counter-espionage, better to have Fighters than Air Base. I'd also advise against going for Submarine -- leave those to the people hopefully following point 1. Fighter, Aircraft Carrier, Espionage, and Battleship are all really good powers that deserve top spots on your list -- at best, you'll get one, at worst you'll make it harder for scum to get them.

3. I'd really advise putting Fail Safe (Vengeful) on your list. Unless you expect to get night-killed N1 or N2, it's categorically worse than just having a missile silo.

4. WIFOM it up in the thread. Town benefits from a certain spread to the selections, but only if scum don't know what it is.

[Cheetory6]

That's actually great.

I was just lurking the scumPT and it seems like they were pretty overly indifferent towards whether it was no Total War or Total War.
Maybe it was different in thread, but there was no concerted effort to make something happen there one way or another. Just seemed like they were having fun at this stage.

[Spiffeh]

Cheet which way are you leaning currently?

[Cheetory6]

If this were a tryhard group, I would be voting no Total War.
That isn't the case so I'm feeling kind of meh.