DEFCON Mafia 4.0 - СЛАВА РОССИИ МАТЕРИ

[GuyInFreezer]

In the distance, the world's smallest violin can be heard playing.

[Andrius]

VoteCount

Vaxkiller [9] - Ser Arthur Dayne, SpyreX, Fate, Cheetory6, Cephrir, Spiffeh, Papa Zito, GreyICE, MagnaofIllusion
Untrod Tripod [5] - xRECKONERx, Ircher, Accountant, mastina, Something_Smart
Ser Arthur Dayne [2] - Lady Lambdadelta, Vaxkiller
Ircher [2] - McMenno, ErrantParabola
Something_Smart [1] - GuyInFreezer

Not Voting [5] - Everyone Else

With 24 alive it will take 13 to lynch.

It is now DEFCON 3. Day 1 will last until December 4th, 2016, at 13:00 hours.
COUNTDOWN: (expired on 2016-12-04 17:00:00)

Papa Zito is V/LA this week.
Firebringer is V/LA this week.

[RedCoyote]

VOTE: McMenno

why did you piggyback off of cephrir's vote instead of voting redcoyote or something_smart, which I'm sure could have a wagon built on them?

And you concluded it was a piggyback vote how?

---

I very specifically put in literally EVERY troop, in an order of most to least.
Given how many troops there were, I shoulda gotten at least ONE of them, especially since I figured...well.
Yaknow.

This post is so horrible. Mastina is terribly anti-town and needs to be nuked at the soonest possible opportunity.

How the fuck is Mastina higher than RC?

It's called giving a morsel of thought to the game beyond "I don't like this person".

You have no idea what you're doing. You just claimed without any reason whatsoever. You expect us to believe you're absent-minded enough to not understand how the draft system works. Depending on the popularity of your first draft selection, you have either a good or so-so chance at getting your first pick. The second pick is a long shot. Anything after the second pick is a waste of time.

Not everyone should, but for some people, it's mandatory.

Nope.

---

Can someone explain the Vax case/point me to it?

Im going to take a guess here:

Because newbies are lynch-bait. Veteran players think they know exactly when another vet is scum and think they always have them pegged. So when wagon gets started on a newbie player no one can be blamed for not knowing they were not scum because of this crappy play style.

Hence why I think SAD is scum trying to get me lynched for crappy reasoning.

It's still pretty early tho, im confident people will see through is ruse.

Newb card is :/

---

You're not even voting someone.
Welcome to high priority level.

I like this post. Something about GiF suggesting that Cheetory make a "deal" with him in regards to his vote's autonomy feels sketchy. Especially this early on.

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He certainly posts like newb.

Because low hanging fruit != town.

This. I don't know if I'm going to vote Vax, but I see nothing worthy of defense thus far.

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If my post is a "lie" then we need to lynch you for lying as well.

I've been trying to fairly evaluate this statement, and it just doesn't read to me like an honest town-sided attack. It reads most logically like desperation. This is probably the first non-weak point against townVax. He's reaching and I don't get the feeling like it's an honest reach but rather him trying to fumble together some sort of attack.

---

Lol
VOTE: Untrod
Sound case by Reck.

This lends support to what McMenno said earlier. This is clearly a piggyback vote, and I don't like it. Ircher is very obviously trying to do whatever he can to distract from the Vax wagon. I'd have felt much better about this vote had Ircher shown engagement with UT and/or Reck.

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UT is basically trying to act like SpyreX and he sees the funhappyjoketimes as his way to blend in but spyspy is actually making real thoughts & stuff underneath it all so UT is just wearing a shitty Party City knockoff SpyreX mask

meanwhile I'm just glad you actually feel confident about a read in a mafia game, even if it's wrong

have you considered that maybe, just maybe, I just have a deepseated desire to nuke shit and the beginning of the game was entirely bullshit from everyone and I just didn't care

but nooooooo you want to be Mr Party Pooper and vote no to nukes all day every day

This is a cop out.

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(Town do stupid stuff more oft then not simply by not paying as close attn. Scum would be less likely to make such a mistake and then go to such lengths to try to deny and cover it up)

I tend to agree with this. The line of attack about whether Vax read the VC or not is too technical and not really a good argument. I think the dayvig argument holds a lot more water though.

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McMenno and ErrantParabola are still voting for Ircher. Would be willing to bet I could get minimum one scum flip by nuking both.

I can ride with this.

---

Um what? McMenno has substance in his posts? Look at that ISO and tell me McMenno has one tiny spec of substance. It is Lol-worthy that this even came out of anyone’s keyboard period but the Night and Day between surgeon-like dissection of Vax and “Herp-A-Derp McMenno’s got substance” has to trigger alarm bells people.

This is a solid point, but it needs to be filed under 'L' for Let's Cross The Bridge When We Get There.

Random notes:

SAD vs LLD is town on town, I think.

Townie vibes from SAD, Accountant, Reck, and Cheetory
Scummy vibes from Vax, Ircher, McMenno

Reck's case on UT is :goodposting:.

1685 is good GIF.

[Ircher]

Reck's case was good and I wasn't townreading UT to begin with (Null leaning scum on UT).

My initial vote on McMenno was not piggyback --> I already explained my vote's reasons.

[Ircher]

Also, town can sheep too. Why is sheeping suddenly a massive scumtell?

[RedCoyote]

GIF may be the hardest slot to read at this point. Though with Spy I can never tell if he's town or I just want him to be town since I always want him to be town.

Since we have time, I'm going to VOTE: McMenno. I would still say this slot is our best bet at nailing scum/terrorist, and I'd be happy to engage with anyone that is open to joining me. I think Vax is a decent wagon, however. I will not try to stand in the way of it and am very much open to supporting it.

[RedCoyote]

Reck's case was good and I wasn't townreading UT to begin with (Null leaning scum on UT).

This rings totally hollow when, as of your last reads list, you have 14 people ranked as more scummy than UT.

[Ircher]

Would lynch D1: UT, McMenno
Possibly lynch D1: Red, Smart
Unlike to lynch D1, but not completely opposed: Vax
Won't lynch D1: Accountant, Cheetory, Mastina, prob. more people you can find in my last colored readslist

Pedit: So, reads should be static and oblivious to other players' reads? My UT read is null due to lack of content to adequately judge at the time. Again, what's wrong with sheeping a case I believe to be good?

[Cheetory6]

This post is so horrible. Mastina is terribly anti-town and needs to be nuked at the soonest possible opportunity.

Was there ever any nonzero chance of mastin ever being a nightkill?

[RedCoyote]

Pedit: So, reads should be static and oblivious to other players' reads? My UT read is null due to lack of content to adequately judge at the time. Again, what's wrong with sheeping a case I believe to be good?

It's bad because it completely throws into question your constitution. If UT can jump from 15th most likely to be scum to 1 on the basis of Reck saying that he has been fluffing it up too much, I'm going to question that. You have no track record on UT, and further still, you've actively talked down Reck due to his Total War vote and his earlier posts you called scummy.

Changing reads is fine, but if you're going to do a complete 180, then I need to see how you got there. I don't see that here.

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This post is so horrible. Mastina is terribly anti-town and needs to be nuked at the soonest possible opportunity.

Was there ever any nonzero chance of mastin ever being a nightkill?

Everyone needs to be reminded early and often that that slot needs to go.

[GuyInFreezer]

And let’s not mention 1543. I mean that is the epitome of scum looking for things in ISO review they can sell as scummy as opposed to actually reading the game flow. GiF’s first vote is clearly a sarcastic response to Cheetory saying “you aren’t even voting someone”. And the second vote is clearly a vote for SS. There is not inherent scum motivation there. Yet SAD response of "WTF is this" is bad bad bad scum looking for nits to pick as opposed to actually looking for scum.

I think I know what's going on there but I'd rather have them explain it.

[Cheetory6]

I'm asking what the issue is of someone who's basically going to be perpetual nuke/lynchbait [especially as hard as mastin is] claiming their results?
Antitown?
I guess?
Scummy?
Not really at all. Honestly I will be pretty surprised if mastin flips scum.

[Cephrir]

Changing reads is fine, but if you're going to do a complete 180, then I need to see how you got there. I don't see that here.

that's a reach, and i'm willing to bet it's far from the only time it's happened in this game

but i guess you've got to prop up that pet mislynch

[Cheetory6]

RC, how often do you get mislynched?

[Ircher]

Reck was a scumread, yes, but for the past few readslist, I have had a note to reevaluate. Again, my most significant complaint was the way he voted for no Total War, but that aside, the case there is a lot weaker.

You also have to understand that the Neutral/Null reads work differently from the others; you have to pay attention to the signs of the percentages. He didn't jump even close to 15 slots; I cannit say without looking up, my guess is it was about a 6-8 positions change. I'm too lazy to separate Neutral-Tiwn from Neutral-Scum and Null-Town from Null-Scum so I put them in the same category and use the confidence percentages instead. Negative = Scum, Positive = Town.

Again, reads are not static; they constantly change esp. when someone has time to step back and reevaluate, even if a very little amount of time, a slot that they were possibly biased against.

[Ircher]

And noting I called Reck's earlier posts scummy, but in light of the fact of possible bias against the against vote, they're not quite as scummy as before. (Pings, yes; worthy to lynch, prob. not)

[RedCoyote]

I'm asking what the issue is of someone who's basically going to be perpetual nuke/lynchbait [especially as hard as mastin is] claiming their results?
Antitown?
I guess?
Scummy?
Not really at all. Honestly I will be pretty surprised if mastin flips scum.

Yeah, I deliberately classified it as anti-town rather than scummy for that reason. I also deliberately asked for a nuke rather than a lynch for that reason. There's a fair shot Mastina is town; there's a 100% shot that Mastina is hurting the town.

RC, how often do you get mislynched?

Fairly often. Of my last ten town games, I was lynched in seven of them. I know how to step on toes.

[GuyInFreezer]

I like this post. Something about GiF suggesting that Cheetory make a "deal" with him in regards to his vote's autonomy feels sketchy. Especially this early on.

That's because the joke is only complete when pieguy's here.

This.

I thought I responded to original SAD's post but I guess I didn't.
Where have I townread him for just being a newb or being a low hanging fruit or whatever?

1685 is good GIF.

Out of all my great posts you picked that one to be good? That post was literally consisted of (1)correcting a fact (2)explaining my townread in similar fashion of how I explained my vax townread (3) a sarcasm.

[MagnaofIllusion]

is there any point to that question at all

i would say "rolefishing before you die" but it's not even useful rolefishing

she also already answered that question

Can you point me to where mastin specifically listed the order? Because if Sub was not the first on the list I have a real, real hard time believing mastin ordered them by usefulness. Sub is 100% must have material.

And there are reasons that make sense Cephir if you noodle hard enough. I know because I asked mastin to confirm his first two choices for a very good reason.

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MoI the scum team isn't fucking half the player list.

You complemented LLD for "seeing what you're seeing" in your previous post about the scumread on me.

Now you're calling her scum.

Show me a tier list of your reads.

This … this is great.

The first line is classic undermining. Anyone want to raise their hand who thinks I have more than 6 suspects (which, BTW, isn’t inherently scummy since Town has every reason to think they aren’t going 6/6).

And ooh … the second part where I complimented LLD for seeing SAD as scum (and also other people, but those get left out of this very selective argument) and somehow suggesting she can’t a Terrorist with you Commie or vice-versa or hell even distancing buddies who just dislike each other.

The most Teck part of this response is ignoring all the points made in hoping that not addressing his scummy ass post about GiF or the fact that he demonstrated he isn’t having to read to find Commies by saying McMenno has substance will make those points go away.

And yes – I’m specifically ignoring the last line because IDGAF about your opinion. My scum reads are well established in thread.

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Nice misrep. I like how you reference the beginning post instead of how it ended:

The point – you missed. I don’t care where “it ended” because it was massively bad post. There is no “secret information” and SAD couldn’t possibly have his role at the point he made those posts. This is an open game. Period. The fact that you are scrambling so hard to find “lies” by SAD (which were clearly just dumb posts) to undermine the wagon on you and coming up with garbage means you are a great lynch today.

[MagnaofIllusion]

Um what? McMenno has substance in his posts? Look at that ISO and tell me McMenno has one tiny spec of substance. It is Lol-worthy that this even came out of anyone’s keyboard period but the Night and Day between surgeon-like dissection of Vax and “Herp-A-Derp McMenno’s got substance” has to trigger alarm bells people.

This is a solid point, but it needs to be filed under 'L' for Let's Cross The Bridge When We Get There.

Random notes:

SAD vs LLD is town on town, I think.

For the record I am still on board with a RC nuke / lynch after he tells me "Oh, this is an absolutely solid point that SAD's posts don't make sense from a Town perspective but we should deal with it later" and then IMMEDIATELY calls SAD Town.

[Vaxkiller]

The point – you missed. I don’t care where “it ended” because it was massively bad post. There is no “secret information” and SAD couldn’t possibly have his role at the point he made those posts. This is an open game. Period. The fact that you are scrambling so hard to find “lies” by SAD (which were clearly just dumb posts) to undermine the wagon on you and coming up with garbage means you are a great lynch today.

I did not miss the point.

To be fair, I'm only providing your lies as a counter point to mine, I really do not believe you are scum from them. You are scum because of your over-the-top push on me for something so silly.

I'm trying to show that the "lie" in question is completely meaningless and inconsequential by comparing it to similar things he has said.

Of course there is no secret information, of course he doesn't have a day vig, but it is as much as a lie as me saying "So who didnt vote for total war" when I had already skimmed through the mods iso.

[RedCoyote]

For the record I am still on board with a RC nuke / lynch after he tells me "Oh, this is an absolutely solid point that SAD's posts don't make sense from a Town perspective but we should deal with it later" and then IMMEDIATELY calls SAD Town.

No, silly, that was unrelated to that post. Hence why I qualified those points as random notes.

Further, your SAD scumread relies utterly and completely on Vax flipping scum. Any scum flip necessitates reevaluation.

[Cephrir]

Can you point me to where mastin specifically listed the order? Because if Sub was not the first on the list I have a real, real hard time believing mastin ordered them by usefulness. Sub is 100% must have material.

I thought she stated she went down the list in the order they appeared. It's possible I might have imagined that.

[RedCoyote]

Where have I townread [Vax] for just being a newb or being a low hanging fruit or whatever?

• [Vax's] conspiracy paranoia is mostly newbtown thing.

[MagnaofIllusion]

@Ceph

- I didn't read it that way but here is the post in question and there is enough lack of clarity which is why I asked mastin specifically for the top two choices ...

What the hell.

I very specifically put in literally EVERY troop, in an order of most to least.
Given how many troops there were, I shoulda gotten at least ONE of them, especially since I figured...well.
Yaknow.

You'd be a bunch of nuke-happy gun-toting 'MURICANS.

Apparently not!

No Espionage. No Battleship. No Eavesdrop. No Aircraft Carrier. No Air Base. No Radar. No Dead Hand (my name for the failsafe). No Submarine. No Covert Ops Team. No Strategic Missile Defense. No Fighter. No Fallout Shelter. No Counterintelligence.

Literally EVERY. SINGLE. ONE. Of them got picked. By someone in the game.
Because if so much as ONE of them had been left unpicked, I should have gotten something!

I mean if that list at the bottom is the order then mastin is crazy in the head with Submarine BELOW seven other choices that include Eavesdrop or Radar.