DEFCON Mafia 4.0 - СЛАВА РОССИИ МАТЕРИ

[Nahdia]

Morning everyone.

Something_Smart is an awkward poster and I'm not seein' red based on that post alone.
ErrantParabola on the other hand is the truest bluest Capitalist in the land and any strikes against them are bad and you should feel bad.

From what I understand, there's not even any guarantee there's any possible advantage to us would be going through DEFCON 3 and 2. And even then it's not super significant. Sooo...
VOTE: TOTAL WAR

Troop options for dummies:

Fighter: Ability tracker. (Usefulness for town: 3/10)
Espionage: Cop. (Usefulness for town: 9/10)
Aircraft Carrier: Jailkeeper that stops nukes during the day as well. (Usefulness for town: 8/10)
Battleship: Doctor. (Usefulness for the town: 6/10)
Radar: Target tracker. (Usefulness for the town: 5/10)
Covert Ops Team: Jailkeeper only for Missle Silos (Usefulness for town: 4/10)
Counterintelligence: Bus Driver (Usefulness for town: 0/10 ... Only good for keeping away from scum)
Submarine: Vig. (Usefulness for the town: 7/10)
Eavesdrop: Sometimes hear scum night talk (Usefuleness for the town: 6/10)
Air Base: Kind of like an unlimited Bulletproof sans nukes. (Usefulness for the town: 8/10)
Fallout Shelter: Unlimited Bulletproof for nukes only. (Usefulness for the town: 2/10)
Fail Safe: PGO. (Usefulness for the town: 2/10)
Strategic Missle Defense: Nuke Doctor. (Usefulness for the town: 3/10)

Y'all think this is about right? I haven't read any of the discussion yet. These are my initial interpretations. The usefulness number is just my subjective calculation. If you think I'm missing someone or getting it wrong, please argue with me.

In general I agree with you. We definitely should be keeping in mind however the value of keeping certain abilities away from scum however. In other words, I wouldn't assume someone is automatically scum for example if it comes up that they have Counterintelligence.

[Nahdia]

Woo I'm caught up again. Would like to be more thorough but I've got stuff to do and wanted to just give my thoughts as some things develop so far.
So my understanding is that we're not doing total war now, as

everyone

need to agree to Total War for it to happen.
I think RC's analysis has been good, though LLD is right it's possible they're just trying to look useful? I'm certainly not pinged by it though. And I would like Magna to respond to the point RC made that Magna was town and against Total War last game and clearly for it this game; that was an interesting catch which warrants explanation.

Only person to ping me so far is Recks. Just the way they outted their reads; it seems very flimsy and my gut read is scum trying to ensure they've got their bases covered wrt early contribution. Definitely not a strong inclination, just where I'm thinking rn.

Since we'll be moving into DEFCON 4 once everyone has checked in, I'll just say this now.

I'm going to be putting "Counterintelligence" as my #1 choice.

If I get it, I'll absolutely claim that I did right away. If I don't get it, hopefully either some other townie will claim it (it'd be nice if you'd put forward your intention to put it as your #1 pick in advance as well) and barring that, we can assume scum have it. Even though there's a decent likelihood it won't make a difference even in scums hands for all sorts of potential reasons, I think the value of having Counterintelligence be a completely known factor and out of play is high enough that I'd be willing to personally sacrifice my nukes for it.

Hopefully this was articulate and not just ranty and bad. I'm trying to keep from spamming this game but I'm not used to making big singular posts condescending all my thoughts at once. Much more of a "stream of conscious" kind of player usually.

[Nahdia]

And I would like Magna to respond to the point RC made that Magna was town and against Total War last game and clearly for it this game; that was an interesting catch which warrants explanation.

So you think that in a game from over 5 years ago the only possibility of why I would change my stance is Alignment indicative?

It just strikes me that this game your entrance was fairly nonchalant about Total War being obviously the best choice so I definitely wanted the fact that you previously thought otherwise addressed. It's one of those questions I like answered because I'm extrapolating your alignment from it now, but because there's the possibility I might extrapolate your alignment from your response itself.

I think "it's been over 5 years my stance has changed" is a perfectly acceptable response. Kind of what I expected and doesn't tell me much, but it didn't hurt to press you on it on the off chance you had more to say.

Very curious to see your response. Also - have you read Defcon 3.0?

No, just seen what RedCoyote has quoted and verified that they were real quotes.

[Nahdia]

It's one of those questions I like answered

NOT

because I'm extrapolating your alignment from it now, but because there's the possibility I might extrapolate your alignment from your response itself.

EBWOP

[Nahdia]

Speaking of wall posts.

Nahdia! Did you exercise today? I am about to go for a run.

-Fire

*Sigh* I'm going to try to wrap this up with some other content so I'm not just making a useless post. But seriously, let's try to avoid spamming the thread with stuff that's

completely

irrelevant to the game at the very least...but no, I haven't yet. I'm gonna be giving you the benefit of the doubt here that you're not actively attempting to recruit me in clogging up the thread. Anyway...

Only person to ping me so far is Recks. Just the way they outted their reads; it seems very flimsy and my gut read is scum trying to ensure they've got their bases covered wrt early contribution. Definitely not a strong inclination, just where I'm thinking rn.

he's probably the turrist

Considering the terrorist can just take the fall out shelter and be done safe I'm inclined to think a terrorist wouldn't set themselves apart from the group so early on by voting against Total War. But eh, I don't know how Recks plays. Either way speculating whether he's mafia or SK is a bit of a exercise in futility at this point I think... I do already have some inclinations on who

isn't

the terrorist just based on the fact that we haven't had any leaks yet though.

I'm also recently being pinged a biiit by Accountant. My impression of them is that their tone is a lot more authoritative when they're scum and this seems to fit with that. Not sure how I'm interpreting that they would say they're gonna be trying to pick the Submarine despite calling their shots this soon. There's all sorts of different motivations for that so I'm striking it as null I suppose.

mastina I have leaning as town purely because I don't know that they'd call so much attention to themselves so fast as scum. It's one thing to goof off because you're kind of flailing for a towny tone but lampshading it, especially in a vighappy game like this, is pretty ballsy if she's scum. Maaaybe it's some crazy wine though... now that I write this out, I'm thinking to myself if someone wanted to try a ballsy strategy as scum this would definitely be the game to do it.

[Nahdia]

Wait uh.... that's a thought.

Can we just run people up to lynch and then tell them "if you're town, take your poison"?

? A nuclear missile needs to be headed towards them for someone to suicide.

[Nahdia]

I'm fine being policy-nuked after I remove Counterintelligence from the game if that's how you wanna play it, Zeetoe.

@Cheetory I modded this game with scum!Accountant http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=53&t=67256
Perception of town!Accountant is from a game I watched http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=68000
In fairness though I hadn't recalled the town Accountant I'd seen is from a Newbie game where plenty of people who tend to be forceful do act a bit more gentle so eh.

Not liking Dayne. 372 was just bad IMO. There was nothing about the post Spiff made that pinged me in the slightest so I really don't understand such a forceful call-out like that. Reads as just fake to me.

Disagree with Accountant that 375 is bad. I make posts like this as town.

Recks' 321 is needlessly defensive and 430 bugs me. I make flippant early reads on really minor stuff too but that just feels a bit

too

simple a post to form a read on.

[Nahdia]

@Nahdia: I was particularly unmotivated in Banana Split for reasons I don't fully understand. It happens, I just get bad vibes or tiredness about games from the start sometimes. So that's not indicative about my meta. I can show you some games where I have been very authoritative to the point of hubris as town.

Mm, alright. Honestly, I usually try to stray basing reads in meta because stuff like this can corrupt meta-reads easily. I think it's more useful seeing people react to meta-reads on them is pretty much as useful as the meta themselves in a lot of cases.

[Nahdia]

LLD, Cheetory, Toogeloo

Is there something you're waiting to happen before you vote or..?

[Nahdia]

LLD, Cheetory, Toogeloo

Is there something you're waiting to happen before you vote or..?

Hi name your top 3 town reads so far.

Idgaf about the reason you can pull them out of thin air for all I care or random.org them.

I want to have you on record naming 3 players that are reading town for you.

Fine by me. Feel free to ignore them once I've flipped town.

Cheetory, Zito, Cephir.

[Nahdia]

Decide as a town what powers you don't want scum to have. I'll put them on my picks. Lynch me in DEFCON 3 so one of those powers is removed from the game.

[Nahdia]

Okay NAHDIA can go into the same pile as Something Special into VI category.

Nah, you better keep trying to lynch me. If I do end up getting a nuke it's going your way

immediately

.

[Nahdia]

I know.

[Nahdia]

I forgot acting stiff and taking games totally seriously demotivates me.

[Nahdia]

i haven't read the last 10 pages. I skimmed a tiny bit and saw MoI telling people not to be elitist and I got disoriented and confused.

Let's see if I can go 0/6
Reck, Dayne, McMenno, Untrod, Nukebringer aaaaaaaannnnndddd...... Fate. (those last three are lowkey shots in the dark)

[Nahdia]

cheetory i dont really care to elaborate considering my reads tend to be bad anyway and i know im not long for this world regardless of what i do.

[Nahdia]

cheetory i dont really care to elaborate considering my reads tend to be bad anyway and i know im not long for this world regardless of what i do.

i've changed my mind, nahdia isn't town

Well, I am. But considering enough people don't think I'm town that I'm going to die no matter what, I really don't care.

[Nahdia]

cheetory i dont really care to elaborate considering my reads tend to be bad anyway and i know im not long for this world regardless of what i do.

Nahdia since when did you think your reads were bad?

Since always?

[Nahdia]

cheetory i dont really care to elaborate considering my reads tend to be bad anyway and i know im not long for this world regardless of what i do.

Well clamming up is a good way to continue down that path.
If you're town I would have liked to condense reads and tbh I'm not really understanding why you'd want to stay in the game if the timeline is basically "how long until I'm dead and nobody cares about my reads".
:/

Essentially I'm pissed off, mostly at myself, because I decided to come into this game with a serious & restrained attitude. And that always just depresses and frustrates me because reasons I don't really wanna get into.

I'll try to elaborate stuff later. Really not in the mood atm. Sorry.

[Nahdia]

Fine with you thinking that, girl.

[Nahdia]

I'm dismissing you because all I was doing with that post is explaining myself and it really doesn't matter to me how you read in to it because I'm just explaining my shitty mood this game for the sake of it. And once I've flipped town it'll be known I wasn't "trying" anything with it.

[Nahdia]

this LLD is reading Town atm.
Pushing on someone because they didn't know what an abbreviation meant is stupid but also feels towny to me just cause I don't see anyone with any amount of self-respect pulling something like that as scum.

I looked back at SAD's flip on me which I remember being really bad at the time. I misinterpreted some stuff as it happened but I still don't like how he scumread me and then instantly pivots to saying "oh it was just pressure" and that I'm low hanging fruit and people who scumread me are scum.

I'm dismissing you because all I was doing with that post is explaining myself and it really doesn't matter to me how you read in to it because I'm just explaining my shitty mood this game for the sake of it. And once I've flipped town it'll be known I wasn't "trying" anything with it.

For someone displaying such an apparently defeatist and fatalist attitude towards this game, you sure seem to care a whole lot that I'm reading you as scum and pushing hard on you right now.

Wonder why.

Just trying to rev up my flippancy. That and put off the errand I'm supposed to be doing right now.

[Nahdia]

I literally put all the scummiest shit on my draft so that I can assess what has & hasn't been taken and then can announce what I got and then die, removing it from the game. So

yeah

, I'm being fatalist.

[Nahdia]

I'm going to politely ask both of you to stop so that I don't have to read through five more pages of arguments about something as dumb as abbreviation.

@Nahdia: With this attitude, I'm wondering why you don't replace out. You clearly seem to not be having fun.

I don't like replacing out of games.

McMenno was on my scumlist earlier because I remember him doing literally nothing. now im looking at his ISO and i guess he did some stuff. hmmmm...

418 McMenno gives a townread on Cheetory and a scumread on RedCoyote. 426 (5 hours later) he responds to a request for reads flippantly without actually responding. decent amount of mechposting and just filler that looks like tonesetting. 732 pings me most. just feels weird considering he's never once talked about Ircher before this.

[Nahdia]

I got counterintelligence.

[Nahdia]

greyice is town.

[Nahdia]

..I think so anyway.

[Nahdia]

In terms of why Nahdia is in the pile of death, it's mostly because she feels like a fake version of herself.
Last game I played with disengaged Nahdia as town, I just.. felt like she was town. It was a situation in which in my mind, scum was practically between her and another player and it wasn't making sense because she felt town in spite of her being disengaged in general.
I have none of those vibes from any of her play when she hasn't been being defeatist this game.

Reads like this are why I hate myself for taking a serious & restrained attitude toward the game. I come off as stilted and fake if I'm not just letting myself channel my usual snark and whimsy. Not that this read isn't fair to have; it totally is and I because I came into this knowing people may read me like this it comes off as an organic genuine read (not that I wasn't already townreading cheetory but yeah).

I need to glance over the Vaxkiller case. Can anyone point me in the direction of ISO's that have reasons Vax is scum?

[Nahdia]

Also of note I've started townreading Fate more lately. Though his attack on GiF awhile back still felt odd which is why I threw his name into my 6 earlier.

[Nahdia]

It's a large, there are already going to be lots of voices and hence lots of posts. I didn't want to flood the game.

[Nahdia]

#hype

I'm just hoping that the game doesn't explode like a great amount of LT games since 2013.

i promise to stifle myself.

or at least try.

[Nahdia]

VOTE: Untrod Tripod

[Nahdia]

Something_Smart is probably gonna flip town.

[Nahdia]

Just prepping to say "I told ya so" really.

[Nahdia]

Really now, you'd request a check on the person with Counterintellignece? And you'd trust that?

[Nahdia]

well the aircraft carrier should be on nahdia

That or radar.

[Nahdia]

That's some next level mechanics.

[Nahdia]

Hey, question. When we die, does it reveal what we had deployed?

[Nahdia]

thanks UT i looked but didnt see that bless u.

anyway, that being the case, do u deny it's not optimal to let Something_Sultry live a day so he can get a result? from mastina's claim, we know SOMEONE has to have Espionage so if he's scum he'll be counterclaimed tomorrow.

unless, you know, he's scum who drafted espionage. which i guess is totally possible. idk.

[Nahdia]

good job excusing yourself from having development in your reads.

[Nahdia]

i dont consider having wildly inconsistent reads to be a scumtell by itself.

[Nahdia]

Apparently it's that it's wildly consistent.

...............huh?

[Nahdia]

ok wow yeah im not jiving with this case on any level.

[Nahdia]

The LACK of changes. If she changed her reads a whole lot in 60 pages I'd be inclined to trust them more. Especially if there was like one entirely troll read in there just to fuck with us.

It's WAY too consistent in a very lazy way.

I................. disagree.

[Nahdia]

VOTE: ss

[Nahdia]

fate nooooooooooooooooooooooooo

[Nahdia]

n ooooooooooooooooooo

[Nahdia]

VOTE: SAD

[Nahdia]

If you read the first word of every line in mastina's wall, it says:

First no you're SAD. Something I fuck. Was but he I the but but SAD. Something hadn't the if who been was just rerun. Changes taking now, hey hey, what. When maybe you my now hey remember. I LLD. Scumflip when I step. The I assume step sorts some nor problem. Nobody enter. I, I LLD. If, however, what and if. If this scum in this I. I. I so now. So but nuke. If work I.

[Nahdia]

quick someone nuke him it'll land before he gets back

[Nahdia]

Dang.

I think "optimal" play would be to let this first wave of nukes land before firing more off. But that doesn't sound like much fun. Not my choice though.

[Nahdia]

so GiF

how bout them cop results

[Nahdia]

Nahdia

He posted them

Wazzup

thanks friend im blindo

[Nahdia]

is it nuking mastina?

[Nahdia]

Ser Arthur Dayne [12] - MagnaofIllusion, RedCoyote, Vaxkiller, hiplop, GuyInFreezer, Lady Lambdadelta, xRECKONERx, Cephrir, Nahdia, Ircher, GreyICE, McMenno

there's probably some scum in here, since it was a town wagon with an v justifiable vote.

RedCoyote, xRECKONERx, Ircher are the people I don't really have any sort of good reason I like to think they're town. IMO we should start there.

[Nahdia]

...............

[Nahdia]

im sorry im just a slower oon the draw, less cool version of you mastina =(

VOTE: Ircher

p-edit i can be down with an ep murder at some point

p-edit x99999999999999999 omg let me post

[Nahdia]

bjork

[Nahdia]

p-edit i can be down with an ep murder at some point

I mean it's not the worst lynch in the world.
Errant's no townread.
In fact, Errant's south of null.

Unfortunately I don't think the things GreyICE has pointed out are alignment indicative even though they probably should be.

I'd just assume someone nuke Errant to save us the lynch.

Ircher is someone

we almost assuredly can't nuke,

whereas Errant we probably can.

Why?

Thinkin' they're the terrorist, and thinkin' terrorist would take fallout shelter.

[Nahdia]

im disappointed the terrorist isn't leaking stuff to us. no fun.

[Nahdia]

ooooh boy.

[Nahdia]

Unless it's hitting mastina, in which case more likely scum IMO.

[Nahdia]

stop voting a guy with a nuke flying towards them anyway.

also scum didn't get a kill last night wut

there are three ways it could have failed.

[Nahdia]

whelp.

Serial Killer took sub.

[Nahdia]

by my own analysis, yeah. with no further information though, it's a bit pointless to speculate on which one. we can maybe figure it out if some of those powers flip in mafia hands later on.

[Nahdia]

@RECK hypothetically, yeah don't claim. Because there are other explanations and we can't really take the target as a hard guilty.

[Nahdia]

we know.

[Nahdia]

lmao poor McMenno.

[Nahdia]

McMenno called it off.

[Nahdia]

on second thought, i really probably should have targeted whoever claimed counterintelligence (i'm pretty sure that someone claimed this)

hiya.

[Nahdia]

but gif targeted fate and hiplop targeted no one

well that's completely fucking useless.

why'd you target the guy who claimed espionage?

[Nahdia]

why oh why must mastina die

[Nahdia]

but i townread her

[Nahdia]

lmao

[Nahdia]

i mean, it's better than submitting nothing! and GiF probably isn't punking us unless he actually made the kill, but in that case i'd expect him to check someone else if he was scum, to SK hunt. so i mean it's something.

[Nahdia]

Considering GiF has gotten checks both nights and I'm holding Counterintel, I think RECK is likely town if he's unCC'd.

[Nahdia]

guys. guys guys guys.

guys

. what if. what if. guys. guys listen. guys. guys. what if. guys what. what if. what if. guys what if

what if zito has

two submarines

.

[Nahdia]

pictured: papa zito, owner of two submarines

[Nahdia]

[Nahdia]

because rolecop is such a towny grab

[Nahdia]

we really don't.

[Nahdia]

Ah yes. A 1 in 3 chance. Thanks for excusing yourself from doing any actual scumhunting, Ircher. Nevermind anything LLD has done this game; they got roleblocked and even though there's other explanations for the kill failing, we should just go for it.

Obtuse.

[Nahdia]

clearly there is a shadow of a doubt, else LLD woulda stepped off ages ago.

[Nahdia]

im all in on red.

[Nahdia]

bc eavesdropper

[Nahdia]

utility nuked. nice.

[Nahdia]

i'm not. in fact i was saying from early on that i should be nuked. it's just a funny way to say it.

[Nahdia]

i think saving RECK was probably a town move by ircher.

UNVOTE:

wanna wait until some of those nukes land before voting elsewhere tbh

[Nahdia]

rip GreyICE

[Nahdia]

ircher you realize you coulda used that intercept to SK hunt

[Nahdia]

(this is me telling the SK to shoot ircher)

[Nahdia]

no, unfortunately it doesn't.

[Nahdia]

turns out i'm really just townhunting this game. no confident scumreads atm.

Townreads: LLD, Untrod, mastina, GiF, RECK,
Leaning Town: Zito, MoI, Cheetory6, Vax, GreyICE, Cephir, Ircher
Actually might be Terrorist tbh: hiplop

leaves Spyre, RedCoyote, Nukebringer, Accountant, McMenno, & ErrantParabola

[Nahdia]

Nukebringer, do you have a nuke or not?

[Nahdia]

thinkin' up a good target?

[Nahdia]

I for one need to be "utility nuked" at some point, so I won't hate you if you decide to be a utilitarian.

[Nahdia]

but my other suggestions would be Accountant or McMenno.

Or maybe SpyreX, but I think he claimed something and I forget what. Rolecop, maybe? yeah you can nuke that too.

[Nahdia]

i don't want to.

but it's been said i'll need to be, and I can sort of understand the reasoning considering my role.

[Nahdia]

basically, it's looking like GiF is gonna keep getting checks unhampered until the battleship dies since he's not being roleblocked/killed.

but all those checks have a slight unreliability factor as long as i'm alive.

[Nahdia]

I spose it's possible EP is scum and they were just lying about their checks.

[Nahdia]

impact hype

[Nahdia]

SpyreX didn't know who he was saving, just that he was sabbing mastina.

[Nahdia]

In fact, based on mastina's posting, he probably thought he was saving LLD.

[Nahdia]

would just like to point out that McMenno thought he could launch another nuke after canceling his first. and he tried to nuke RedCoyote.

[Nahdia]

that in mind i dont think it's unreasonable to think he's scum who just didnt wanna take the heat of lynching Nukebringer and thought killing RedCoyote would get him much less hate.

[Nahdia]

inb4 scum didnt get any PR's.

[Nahdia]

what

[Nahdia]

mastina's nuke was sabotaged. That was the terrorist's sub, which we all assumed was headed for GreyICE since at the time of launch there was a nuke headed for zito and I don't think Spyre had claimed yet.

[Nahdia]

you should check me on when SpyreX claimed in relation to the second nuke launch, I could be totally wrong.

[Nahdia]

[Day 3, DEFCON 1 - Game Event]

...

[NORAD SYSTEM] ALERT. ALERT. NUCLEAR LAUNCH DETECTED.
[NORAD SYSTEM] Attempting to locate launch site...
[NORAD SYSTEM] Missile unable to be tracked...
[NORAD SYSTEM] Analyzing flight trajectory…
[NORAD SYSTEM]

ERROR: MULTIPLE TARGETS DETECTED: GreyICE, hiplop, Untrod Tripod, Papa Zito, Nukebringer

[NORAD SYSTEM] Estimating time until impact...
[NORAD SYSTEM] Warhead will detonate in (expired on 2016-12-05 12:44:46)

Guys weve done this already.

Reck is town barring a cc and even then hed be scum not sk. Cancel the nuke.

Lld is drunk town and has been claiming fallout shelter soo hard hence the burning desire to be copped. And the discussion about the nk there is valid. Shes town.

Aaanndd cause i want zito to stop feeling sad mastins nuke is gonna go whiz pop because I'm na motherfucking secret agent up in this bitch so you're also alive.

And ut is town.

Sooo lets assume sk is doublenuke weve almost got the pool out with all the claims.

Additionally someone who isnt me get the shit on the d1 wagons and who totally shit the bird we should be able to carve a ascum.there

mhm i was right.

[Nahdia]

So either the terrorist

1) Knew mastina's nuke would fail (heavily incriminates SpyreX)
2) Isn't paying attention to the thread at all

[Nahdia]

P-Edit: So, Spyrex blocks the Zito nuke and then nukes him anyway?

Again, SpyreX didn't know who the target was of the nuke he was blocking. Covert Ops is a night action, which he targeted mastina with.

Although, Covert Ops does seem like a really weird draft pick for a role that wants as many people to die as possible. Not to mention, I really doubt SpyreX would be so careless. I doubt SpyreX is the terrorist here. I neglected to mention a third possibility though:

3) The terrorist thought mastina would recall their nuke.

[Nahdia]

Or, just so everything is on the table

1) The terrorist knew mastina's nuke would fail (heavily incriminates SpyreX)
2) The terrorist isn't paying attention to the thread at all. (indicates hiplop IMO)
3) The terrorist thought mastina would recall their nuke. (really not sure)
4) The terrorist was intentionally botching their nuke shot (only reason i can see to do this is as a cover; would indicate mastina terrorist IMO)

@mod if a submarine nuke's target is killed before it hits its target, would you instantly announce that nuke is out of play or wait for it to touch down and indicate it hit a dead body?

[Nahdia]

3) The terrorist thought mastina would recall their nuke.

i don't think anyone other than mastina could have thought this

Well, actually...

If you're sub zito and you shot me I'm gonna be soo sad

1/2 ain't bad

If this is a hardclaim of sub and I get a guarantee that nuke's not headed for me (we're talking, my name disappears from the list, guarantee), I'll recall the nuke. There is no name in Reck/Ircher/RC who vigging would be bad, and submarine is quite frankly the

only

claim from you aside from missile silo I'd believe because I know for a fact you love the vig role.

But if that nuke's headed my way, fuck no I'm not recalling mine.

Nahdia why in the name.of.all that is good in #1 would i announce i was saving.him

I agree. There's pretty much no doubt in my mind you're not the terrorist, esp considering why the fuck would the terrorist draft a role that keeps people alive. Just putting all my thinking on the table.

[Nahdia]

I don't think I'm particularly good at reading Accountant, I just had a bit of meta on them I felt it might be useful to put forward. It wasn't, really.

Amusing that you're asking me

after

you launch a nuke at them. I think their gradual fade from the forefront of this thread is more scum than town indicative. Tonally pretty neutral, unfortunately.

[Nahdia]

@MoI, I currently have Ircher leaning town because he intercepted a nuke headed towards RECK, who claimed to be the town roleblocker (which is probably a town claim considering no blocks on GiF). Thoughts on that action?

[Nahdia]

happy birthday hiplop.

terrorist could potentially have both a sub and a nuke.

[Nahdia]

So taking another look at Papa Zito & the SK's nuke. Stuff to note:

The order to send that nuke was given to Andrius between 2:30AM and 11:45AM EST on Dec 3rd.
People we know were around in that window are GreyICE, LLD, SpyreX, Accountant, mastina, xRECKONERx, Untrod Tripod, McMenno, and Zito themselves. Doesn't mean someone else wasn't lurking at that time, just thought I'd point it out.

Only possibly notable things I see in that window of time is Zito claiming sub, mastina offering to possibly recall her nuke on Zito if she knows it's not headed towards her, and Zito claiming his sub nuke is headed for "his biggest scumread". It's possible mastina believed it wasn't coming towards her when he said that, planned to recall the nuke later (she tried but was too late), and launched her sub nuke at that point. Also possible terrorist just wanted to kill the other sub, for whatever reason.

Other stuff Zito had been saying just previous to the terrorist sending in their shot includes saying SpyreX isn't town and being generally salty as mastin. Not much besides that. Day 2, he scumreads myself and mastina as a team. Also throws shade at RECK a bit.

[Nahdia]

nukebringer don't forget to unleash your nuclear loving

[Nahdia]

Only one I really feel justifies a vote is 4093, the rest are in line with what I've come to expect with Ircher, honestly.

[Nahdia]

Guess we'll see if saving RECK really was just for towncred.

[Nahdia]

the way they were talking i thought that was gonna be a terrorist flip, actually.

[Nahdia]

imo check hiplop for terrorist.

[Nahdia]

Personally at this point I think Nahdia needs to go sooner rather than later as the WIFOM about GiF's investigations needs to be cut down as much as possible given the following ...

Counterintelligence: Labeling documents "TOP SECRET" is useless if the enemy can walk right in and grab them off your desk. There are also other things that one might want to keep secret, like photos of ... stuff ... and ... yeah. Consequentially, it is unsurprising that governments have devoted just as many, if not more, resources to counterintelligence than intelligence gathering itself. {

Each night, you may target a player, choose an ability that “reveals” a result, and choose a legal result for that ability. If that player is targeted with the chosen ability, it resolves with the result of your choice instead of its normal result. Example: Player A, Espionage, Yes: Causes Player A to appear to be aligned with the selected faction if targeted with Espionage.

One night per game, you may secure all private communications as though it were DEFCON 5 until the end of the next night phase. This does not preclude them from choosing to leak posts.}

Sorry Nahdia that's where my head is at ...

I understand.

[Nahdia]

At this point though, you can pretty much trust any positive (ie is aligned with Russia/Terrorist) results you get even if I am alive. Otherwise even if I do get GiF to lead a mislynch on town, I die next because it's obvious I interfered with the result. If I'm Russian, I'm just lawyering my last living partner at this point.

[Nahdia]

I almost wonder if they thought there was a possibility of them surviving. But I don't see how :\

[Nahdia]

So you think I'm town then? Cause with EP dead, nothing stops me from framing you except possibly RECK.

[Nahdia]

Actually, as long as someone nukes me tomorrow you can know any results you got are reliable once I flip american.

[Nahdia]

yeah, no shit.

[Nahdia]

That said, why was Guy NOT nuked by Nuke? That would make the most sense.

Might have been worried he was battleshipped or something.

[Nahdia]

neato we've had a lot of death i'll update my list. previous one for reference:

turns out i'm really just townhunting this game. no confident scumreads atm.

Townreads: LLD, Untrod, mastina, GiF, RECK,
Leaning Town: Zito, MoI, Cheetory6, Vax, GreyICE, Cephir, Ircher
Actually might be Terrorist tbh: hiplop

leaves Spyre, RedCoyote, Nukebringer, Accountant, McMenno, & ErrantParabola

{LLD, Untrod, GiF, RECK, Ircher}
{mastina, Cheetory6, Cephir}
{Vax}
{MoI, SpyreX}
{Accountant, McMenno}

probably terrorist: {hiplop}

[Nahdia]

I feel reluctant to lynch hiplop today due to GiF's check but honestly, my prior analysis about the terrorist kill really makes me think whoever the terrorist is just isn't paying attention. Which would point to hiplop.

[Nahdia]

Fighter: The fast and lightweight fighter is easily able to penetrate enemy territory, making it the perfect craft for reconnaissance. {Each night, you may target a player. I will reveal to you what deployment that player has made.

Note: Factional abilities are not revealed.

}

Terrorism: Starting at DEFCON 3, you may utilize any and all methods available to you to kill another player once per Night Phase.

This is a factional ability.

[Nahdia]

QUOTED THE WRONG THING

Note: The Stealth Bomber and terrorist attack are factional abilities and cannot be detected.

[Nahdia]

THAT'S FROM THE RADAR THING TOO

[Nahdia]

i may be a ditz but i know my mechs dammit

[Nahdia]

realized GreyICE disappeared from my list somehow also wanted to bump LLD down because not quite as confident on her

{Untrod, GiF, RECK, Ircher}
{mastina, Cheetory6, Cephir, LLD}
{Vax, GreyICE}
{MoI, SpyreX}
{Accountant, McMenno}

probably terrorist: {hiplop}

I wanna do some speculating. GiF being alive means Battleship is probably in town hands. It could have been what stopped Russia's kill last night. But I think the fact that Nukebringer didn't nuke GiF means they were trying to make sure they weren't targeting someone a battleship might be on. Which would only make sense if they felt that their target

wasn't

protected by the battleship, meaning they had way of already knowing why their kill failed. Which would only be the case if... LLD was roleblocked.

Or maybe Nukebringer was just being weird. I dunno.

[Nahdia]

Also worth noting I don't support a lynch on anyone that hasn't claimed today.

[Nahdia]

Ok lemme clarify.

I'm going to treat voting anyone who hasn't claimed as fishing for claims at this point. We know there has to be at least one, if not more, scum outside the unclaimed. Lynching in that group is doing scum's job for them.

[Nahdia]

mastina my friend, I know you're an intelligent lass. Surely you can appreciate the idea of ceph, magna, and grey being off limits today, no?

[Nahdia]

mastina my friend, I know you're an intelligent lass. Surely you can appreciate the idea of ceph, magna, and grey being off limits today, no?

why those three?

They're the only people who haven't claimed.

[Nahdia]

And, you know, that means one of them has a role scum is hunting for. *cough*

[Nahdia]

mastina my friend, I know you're an intelligent lass. Surely you can appreciate the idea of ceph, magna, and grey being off limits today, no?

why those three?

They're the only people who haven't claimed.

JESUS christ, it's been that many?

Yup. I have a table. Want to see my table?

[Nahdia]

By the way, the table proves mastina was telling the truth about every troop being drafted unless one of those thread has a silo in defense mode or whatever.

[Nahdia]

Ok lemme clarify.

I'm going to treat voting anyone who hasn't claimed as fishing for claims at this point. We know there has to be at least one, if not more, scum outside the unclaimed. Lynching in that group is doing scum's job for them.

How? We should mass-claim anyway. Scum obviously doesn't have the power to eliminate all the town prs at the end of this cycle.

No no no no no no no no no no no no no non onono no nono no no no no on no no no

mass claim tomorrow

Fighter is out of play, meaning unless

both

remaining Russians are in the unclaimed, they still have to take a shot in the dark to try and sink our battleship tonight.

They're the only people who haven't claimed.

Actually, to my knowledge, SpyreX hasn't claimed either, so it's four unclaimed.

But yes I know I'm not going to lynch them.
Nothing stopping me from voting them though.

Ooooo, someone hasn't been paying attention!!!

[Nahdia]

In fact, you KNOW he's claimed. You acknowledged his claim yourself. You're just forgetting.

[Nahdia]

Nuclear missiles are deadly – even if you aren’t killed in the initial blast, a slow death by radiation is sure to follow. If you aren’t tough enough to handle the grueling experience, there is an easier way… {If you are being targeted with a nuclear missile, you may post I do not wish to die a painful radioactive death in the thread. This will cause you to commit suicide and leave the game immediately. ***WARNING***: This command is irrevocable and cannot be reversed or prevented by any means, including the battleship, fallout shelter, or abort launch. If you post it, you instantly die.}

*cough* Accountant *cough*

[Nahdia]

Honestly, I wouldn't mind lynching Menno even before Accountant flips. I don't think Accountant's alignment will change my mind on who to lynch at all, and by the time the nuke does hit Accountant there'll still have plenty of hours left in the night to reassess night actions if people need to.

I don't think Menno is 100% going to flip scum, but we're at 13/2/1 atm and we can afford to make some lynchbait lynches. I've got no good reason to think he's defo town.

[Nahdia]

mastina my friend, I know you're an intelligent lass. Surely you can appreciate the idea of ceph, magna, and grey being off limits today, no?

why those three?

They're the only people who haven't claimed.

JESUS christ, it's been that many?

Yup. I have a table. Want to see my table?

girl you KNOW I do

behold, my table

(bold is confirmed, italic is claimed)

[Nahdia]

Thank you!

[Nahdia]

Bye Accountant. Sounds like you were town, sorry about that <3

[Nahdia]

VOTE: McMenno

[Nahdia]

Do you think we should wait to lynch him?

[Nahdia]

[Nahdia]

what the fuck, hero

[Nahdia]

did RECK blind roleblock into the god damn unclaimeds or something

[Nahdia]

Battleship coulda been with Russians all along if something else stopped their kill and they tried to kill GiF.

[Nahdia]

Tried to kill GiF the night before last, that is.

[Nahdia]

Very brave of you to just blindly nuke someone who has a 1/3 shot of owning failsafe -_-'

[Nahdia]

Well here's my damn list for what it's worth.

{Untrod}
{mastina, LLD, Cephrir}
{Cheetory6}
{Vax, GreyICE}
{MoI, SpyreX}

Terrorist: {hiplop}

p-edit: well this is a disaster.

[Nahdia]

Would it take 48 hours for a nuke to travel from me to me?

not if you nuke yourself then shoot yourself in the face.

[Nahdia]

Keep in mind someone got sabotaged today.

[Nahdia]

Zito is dead. Very dead.

Maybe the terrorist will kill one of us for ya.

[Nahdia]

Yes, Zito is dead. Zito has been dead for awhile.

[Nahdia]

Yeah, it did. But then it turned out the terrorist nuked them too.

[Nahdia]

I'm not gonna go back and find that post or explain the whole thing but TL;DR

Terrorist sub nuking Zito when another nuke was already headed towards him, not yet revealed to be a sabotaged nuke, means the terrorist is probably not paying any attention. In other words it's friggin' hiplop.

[Nahdia]

I would wait for the current nukes to drop, just in case. But you do you, man.

[Nahdia]

Shoot your nuke too, hiplop.

[Nahdia]

Your sub* nuke.

[Nahdia]

@mod If someone is targeted with the aircraft carrier, do their nukes visibly fail directly at launch or at the end of the countdown?

[Nahdia]

Wondering if it would have been a better idea to discuss his target.

[Nahdia]

If scum have doc, I don't see any reason why GiF wouldn't have been the target N2 meaning the only way that kill could have failed is if RECK blocked the person executing the kill. That's where my head is at.

[Nahdia]

If scum have doc, I don't see any reason why GiF wouldn't have been the target N2 meaning the only way that kill could have failed is if RECK blocked the person executing the kill. That's where my head is at.

Except he blocked me, and I'm town.

So.

Yeah.

On the other hand I'm pretty much in the opposite headspace as mastin and have actually been townreading LLD today so far. But fuck it, maybe I'm wrong.

If there's a scum doc flip, LLD needs to be lynched. That's all there is to it.

[Nahdia]

I just.

Why would Russia shoot MoI over a claimed cop. Especially right after MoI pushed through a lynch on a townie.

[Nahdia]

I don't deny the possibility but it doesn't make sense to me.

[Nahdia]

...True enough.

[Nahdia]

Naw. mastina is saying scum battleship parked on GiF in case they were being tracked, so they could look good if there was a mass claim.

[Nahdia]

Yeah. Ceph being doc was pretty obvious.

Sigh.

[Nahdia]

Cheet? Seriously?

Cheet!?

Why in God's name would scum aim for a fucking missile silo at this point in the game. My god. Ceph I like you but if you're town that was a serious miscalculation.

[Nahdia]

I like the part where you admit your nuke wasn't justified.

I wish I'd managed to die. I thought my request that Grey and MOI not claim was potentially too obvious, but I guess not.

It was obvious for me at least, which is why I started trying to shout it louder than you

[Nahdia]

I mean, I guess. I felt at this point though it was either apparent scum needed to take a shot in the dark aiming for the battleship in the unclaimeds, or they needed to throw a Hail Mary and shoot for GiF. Killing Cheet doesn't solve the problem of GiF mechanically solving the game for them.

[Nahdia]

Let's wait on SpyreX to hear who he targeted last night.

[Nahdia]

GROAN.

WHY NOT.

[Nahdia]

SURE, FINE, LET'S JUST WAIT 48 HOURS AND SEE THEN -_-.

[Nahdia]

V/LA until 12/12. Finals week.

[Nahdia]

peggy: maybe alice?
____________________________________________________

we want to admire alice anyway.
______________________________________

expect adverse effect to peggy from 294 but if needed maybe

might also cause reverse
______________________________________

is admiring sam possible

______________________________________

that would be great
even better for peggy if it happens without alice delivering
______________________________________

peggy admire neil ?


Peggy is clearly scum, because they are talking about using an ability. This ability and peggy appears over a wide time and my guess is that they are still alive, and only peggy can admire, so is a troop of some sort.

So what troops are still active that people could have a question about their target (is admiring sam possible)

When are these from? Today?

[Nahdia]

Vax, many troops could have a question as to their target. Battleship, Covert Ops, Counterintelligence all do and they're still in play. Not to mention admiring could just mean

nuking

, or it could mean the night kill.

[Nahdia]

I doubt the names have any connection to our usernames. It would be way more secure not to mention easy to just come up with a list of common names and put it next to the player list with no credence for what goes to who. They can all refer back to earlier posts in the scumread; they key was obviously made before DEFCON 3.

[Nahdia]

Gotta get back to work.

Vax, MoI, SpyreX, hiplop.

I want all of them dead. Everyone else is fine by me.

[Nahdia]

But she's town... seriously. I'd bet actual cash on it.

Maybe. But not all Town need to be in endgame. I can point to many, many examples of Town who cost Town the game.

Do you agree that group of four players makes sense as containing all three remaining scum?

VOTE: MagnaofIllusion

Never ever unvoting this. This isn't a town mindset at this point in the game. Not ever.

[Nahdia]

Stop acting like I'm a fucking liability when you're reads have been hot garbage all game. Did SAD flip scum? I think not.

[Nahdia]

Nahdia, do you think the doctor protect by Cephrir blocked the kill, given Firebringer's nuke target?

Probably, but that really depends on who has the Air Base. Andrius' answer just now makes it seem that the Aircraft Carrier can't have blocked the kill, meaning all that analysis is out the window.

So I agree here that peggy is a scum player, and does indeed have a role. That limits the pool down to GI/MoI/Cephrir/SpyreX/Nahdia/LLD. From there, I can say I sincerely doubt Peggy means Nahdia.

Just want to point the obvious for people who don't read mastin's posts - this is so wrong it hurts. None of LLD, myself or GI have a role that can target. That much is abundantly clear even if you don't know which of the missing Roles with myself or GI has.

Yet Mastin is trying to include the three of us as possibilities.

Which is why even if Town mastin's nuke by UT is completely Pro-Town

Alright, look.
UNVOTE:

I'm trying to be respectful here. I still have plenty of room to reassess especially after the current nukes in the air drop. But please just hear me out. I'm confused by this mindset you seem to have about mafia where everyone who doesn't 100% agree with you needs to die, no matter what. It just doesn't make sense. This game isn't about killing people who don't agree with you, it's about finding scum, something which seems to be second priority to you. From my perspective, your goal seems to be to kill the people you don't like. Normally, I would have trouble seeing any kind of town-motivation in legitimately pushing a multitude of liability kills. Even in the context of this game, I'm seriously struggling with it. If you're town, you have to work with me. If you think I've made an error in analysis or judgement, don't just say I need to die as a liability,

explain

it to me.

Please

. I'm not ridiculously stubborn, I will listen to you, and I will work with you.

[Nahdia]

GreyICE, who do you think is Russian? I'm having trouble with a MagnaofIllusion townread. And quite frankly, I think Vax is more likely than not going to flip town. My head is currently at MoI and SpyreX. Which one of my townreads is wrong?

[Nahdia]

FWIW, the earlier analysis involving RECK's block that LLD can't be terrorist is still correct, since the submarine nuke still went off without a hitch.

[Nahdia]

SpyreX and LLD springs to mind as a possibility, since SpyreX would have been saving LLD presumably by nuking mastina. But that doesn't make sense since LLD had the fallout shelter, and it's not as if she shied away from claiming it.

I don't think that launch should have been aborted. I'm still trying to follow the logic that mastia responded to, but i have to get home, will be posting later tonight. hiplop for the love of all that is mighty you need to cancel that shit. If he doesn't, kill hiplop for me.

The logic is that since ACC can't block the kill, Nukebringer hitting Ircher now is that much more likely a result of Russians worrying the battleship would still protect GiF.

Although mastina's earlier speculation that a Russian battleship might have parked on GiF anyway just in case is still valid (although I personally find that a bit unlikely).

[Nahdia]

Hey. mastina.

Your VCA is complete garbage.

[Nahdia]

Because she's completely replacing 200 pages of content with a very very basic idea of "I don't think all scum will vote together". It's dumb.

[Nahdia]

I have mad respect for the amount of effort you're putting into this but quite frankly I don't see any value in it, sorry.

[Nahdia]

Honestly

I sort of wish mastina had let that nuke his Ceph.

[Nahdia]

Did GreyICE actually ever say he knew he was getting nuked? I certainly speculated as to it, but I don't recall him commenting on that. And I wouldn't exactly blame him for not wanting to claim outright; more claims narrows the battleship even more.