DEFCON Mafia 4.0 - СЛАВА РОССИИ МАТЕРИ

[Ircher]

VOTE: No War

[Ircher]

Ill catch up this evening.

[Ircher]

I might try a different catch up style this game... I've always been bad at finding scum just by reading posts and looking for what sticks out, so I might try a different approach and see if it works better for me.

That said, summaries are always appreciated.

[Ircher]

And, as evidenced by the signup thread, I voted no to Total War partially because I don't want to be nuked N1 (very likely regardless of my alignment) and because I think that that adds too much chaos to this game at the beginning.

I have other responsibilities to do including homework and other modding commitments, and this game generally comes as last in my priority list.

[Ircher]

@Mod - Since Toogeloo's vote wouldn't change anything anyway, can we go ahead and move on into Defcon 4?

[Ircher]

I've always been bad at finding scum just by reading posts and looking for what sticks out, so I might try a different approach and see if it works better for me.

Are you gonna be performing voodoo to figure out scum or???

I'm honestly up for policy lynching you off those three posts alone b/c it seems like you're gonna be utterly useless this game.

Way to jump to conclusions. I'm gonna catch up; just been busy elsewhere. In fact, I'm starting right now.

Pedit: 48 hour deadlines are pretty typical here. Its also pretty typical to start the game despite not everyone confirming. That said, I can understand what you are saying, but finding a replacement shouldn't be hard. Worst case scenario is just extend Defcon 4 deadline.

[Ircher]

Sounds good.

[Ircher]

Gonna go ahead and say that you won't be nuking me, no sirree.

[Ircher]

Why not? We could hash out deadlines and be organized about it.
I'm probably barking up the wrong tree with this game and playerlist but I mean, theoretically this setup could be easy as fuck to basically give town so many more lynches than they normally get.

The practical answer is no one wants to.

Other than that, well, is vanilla 18:5:1 nightless balanced? it might be

Highly doubt thats balanced.

[Ircher]

Yes, it is not. It's also very irrelevant as it turns out. Is that really the most important post you've seen so far

Nope; just not commenting on it in my catchup post, so......

[Ircher]

Kay, prob. gonna stop at the end of page 10.

[Ircher]

Spoiler: Summary Pg 1-10

1. Pg 1 #8 --> Cheetory asks for an argument for total war.
2. Pg 1 #10 --> Spiffeh plans to nuke Hiplop
3. Pg 1 #23 --> Cheetory shows that no Total War saves town from a single night kill by the mafia.
4. Pg 2 #26 --> Something_Smart : Town at last? Plans on sheeping people he thinks are good.
5. Pg 2 #33 --> Untrod wants to nuke Spyrex before Nukebringer
6. Pg 2 #39 --> Papa Zito asks for people to kill everyone except him
7. Pg 2 #40 --> Cheetory draws target on Something_Smart
8. Pg 2 #45 --> SpyreX suggests that No Nuke == Communist
9. Pg 2 #47 --> Cheet believes Spiffeh to be SK
10. Pg 3 #50 --> SpyreX contemplating Submarine
11. Pg 3 #57 --> Cephir against Total War (get reads first then nuke); also plans to get in Spiffeh's way
12. Pg 3 #60 --> McMenno suggests its a Communist plot to not have total war.
13. Pg 3 #71 --> SpyreX tells McMenno not to get a nuke.
14. Pg 4 #78 --> Guy scumreads Smart for #26
15. Pg 5 #108 --> RedCoyote compiles a useful list concerning the usefulness of roles
16. Pg 5 #117 --> Red against total war & states why
17. Pg 5 #119 --> Mastina disappointed that she didn't get scum
18. Pg 5 #122 --> Mastina spamming the thread about being able to troll since she didn't draw scum
19. Pg 6 #126 --> Nukebringer claims scum
20. Pg 6 #132 --> RedCoyote analyzes and pulls out stuff from previous games
21. Pg 6 #143 --> RedCoyote mentions the American Win in Defcon 3.0
22. Pg 6 #146 --> RedCoyote quotes Magua's troop selection strategy from Defcon 3.0
23. Pg 7 #153 --> Mastina states she hasn't read the thread yet (and may or may not do so)
24. Pg 7 #156 --> UT will nuke Cheetory after the hydra
25. Pg 7 #167 --> Lamb suggests nuking RedCoyote for quoting past games & trying to look useful
26. Pg 7 #172 --> Xreck votes no to Total War
27. Pg 8 #176 --> Lamb requests the Eavesdrop
28. Pg 8 #179 --> Mastina states that if she nukes anyone, she's scum and if she defends herself, she's scum.
29. Pg 8 #180 --> More quotes from RedCoyote; this time about support/anti-support changes from 3.0 to 4.0
30. Pg 8 #197 --> Nukebringer is nuking Cheetory
31. Pg 9 #201 --> Spiffeh calls Errant scum.
32. Pg 9 #207 --> Guy nuking Mastina
33. Pg 9 #212 --> Spiffehs states its scum!Fire (Nukebringer)
34. Pg 9 #218 --> Mastina refuses to share reads because it isnt a troll move
35. Pg 9 #221 --> Lamb is scum according to mastina
36. Pg 10 #225 --> Magna calls RedCoyote scum because he was fence-sitting/testing the waters for the Total War. Also demands town players to claim Counter-Intelligence immediately if they take it.
37. Pg 10 #228 --> Cheet asks Mastina to expand on the Lamb read.
38. Pg 10 #238 --> Accountant will nuke Reckoner for stopping total war.
39. Pg 10 #245 --> Nahdia expresses scumread on Reck, townreads Red, and plans on selecting Counterintelligence

Spoiler: Reads

Confirmed Town

(From my perspective) (98%-100% Confidence)
Ircher  (100%) - Role PM

Likely Town

(85%-97% Confidence)

Leaning Town

(60%-84% Confidence)
Cheetory (75%) - I really liked his early posts especially #23; just strong town vibes from this guy.
GuyInFreezer (65%) - I have seen nothing wrong with his posts and the thought process he exhibits seems town-motivated

Null

(0% - 30% Confidence; No/Very Weak Read)
Cephir (+20%) - I liked #57, but Cephir hasn't posted enough content to sway me strongly one side or another
Nukebringer (+1%) - Extremely hard to tell here when they're just trolling per usual.
McMenno (0%) - Nothing to convince me one way or another, not even a little.
Papa Zito (-1%) - Not much from here either; kinda didn't like #39 even though its a troll post....
Accountant (-5%) - Not too many posts to go off by, most everything that has been said by Accountant seems to be just rehash material. Not a huge fan so far.
Untrod Tripod (-10%) - Has this slot even done anything constructive yet? Seems to be "Nuking X" then "I'm gonna Nuke Y" with the sole intention of making the thread longer.
Mastina (-20%) - Being utterly useless (KTS useless or worse) and needs rope immediately.

Neutral

(31%-59% Confidence; Mixed Read)
Magna (+50%) - Post #225 was a very strong post and seems to be a typical town!Magna post. (Not sure if I got scum meta with Magna though...)
Nahdia (+45%) - Very clear and articulate; post #210 gave me strong town vibes.
SpyreX (+40%) - I haven't really liked his posts, but I think that's more a personal bias. Probably biased because SpyreX is trolling a good bit.
Lamb (+35%) - Could go either way here, but the fact she called out Red in #167 leans me toward town here.
Spiffeh (-40%) - Main complaint here is Spiffeh's just pointing random fingers at people and saying their scum without backing up their claim. I guess thats really a null tell, but I'm reserving further judgement until I see otherwise.

Leaning Scum

(60%-75% Confidence)
RedCoyote (-70%) - I was townreading Red until Lamb's comment in #167 which got me suspicious. Red proceeds to post #180 which really struck me as what Lamb said in #167. While some of Red's info has seemed useful, a lot of it really does look like filler and trying to look busy.

Likely Scum

(76%-100% Confidence)
Something_Smart (-76%) - Post #26 really pinged as the scum thing to do. Yes, it's a self-meta statement, but also the fact that he justs plans to sheep whoever and not try to solve the game is even more indicative of scum.
xReckonerX (-82%) - I really didn't like the way he voted No to Total War.... I guess Reck is known for trolling, but still, that post just pinged me as super scummy when he did it and then trolled afterwards.

The second spoiler is not optional. Anyway, hopefully this was worth the wait (?).

[Ircher]

Sorry, not happening.

[Ircher]

Maybe (More likely just gonna use the def. mode of the nuke bunker)

I'll try catching up more tomorrow.

[Ircher]

*missile silo.

[Ircher]

So how's everyone? Are we thankful that the Nukes got delayed?

[Ircher]

If you post these 3 posts in succession:

I might try a different catch up style this game... I've always been bad at finding scum just by reading posts and looking for what sticks out, so I might try a different approach and see if it works better for me.

That said, summaries are always appreciated.

And, as evidenced by the signup thread, I voted no to Total War partially because I don't want to be nuked N1 (very likely regardless of my alignment) and because I think that that adds too much chaos to this game at the beginning.

I have other responsibilities to do including homework and other modding commitments, and this game generally comes as last in my priority list.

@Mod - Since Toogeloo's vote wouldn't change anything anyway, can we go ahead and move on into Defcon 4?

You need some Jesus or something.

Whats wrong with them?

1) Whats wrong with trying something different. Especially if what you usually do doesn't work very well? Not all of us are great at mafia; not all of us are even good at mafia.
2) It's an opinion. What's wrong with an opinion. Also, what's wrong with having other IRL stuff and commitments?
3) Ok, thats perhaps is a bit questionable, but it's more an attempt to keep the game moving versus trying to be rude. Still not sure what the big deal.

Pedit: Be thankful that I won't nuke anyone.

Pedit2: No?

[Ircher]

I've let go of an ircher scumread before, won't happen again

also first

I've no clue what you're talking about right now.

[Ircher]

Please explain which low hanging fruit I have gone after.

Ircher. Duh. I pointed it out when you did it.

Do you see the difference.

I have Ircher as null and wanted to get a better read on him, so in the hope that he stops being useless, I tried to push on him to do something in fear that all he was going to do was those 3 posts then fade back into oblivion.

You on the other hand specially scumread a low hanging fruit and started building a case on him.

Hey, reading the thread took like 1h 30m yesterday FOR 10 PAGES! So, you can su about "fading back into oblivion".

Pedit: Whelp, so much for a flawless game.....

[Ircher]

It's more the fact that you made those three posts in succession. Like you're just being defensive right off the bat, and then it doesn't help that you're carrying this attitude of OH AREN'T YOU GRATEFUL FOR ME STOPPING THE NUKES even though you make it p clear that you did that out of self-interest.

It was self-interest for the nukes.

Concerning my "attitude", you gotta to remember its Thanksgiving in the US; hence my commentary although I see what you mean.

[Ircher]

It's more the fact that you made those three posts in succession. Like you're just being defensive right off the bat, and then it doesn't help that you're carrying this attitude of OH AREN'T YOU GRATEFUL FOR ME STOPPING THE NUKES even though you make it p clear that you did that out of self-interest.

It was self-interest for the nukes.

Concerning my "attitude", you gotta to remember its Thanksgiving in the US; hence my commentary although I see what you mean.

Also, not really "defensive" so much as explaining some things off the bat.

[Ircher]

so basically ircher needs to eat rope because he almost certainly has bunker or failsafe or defense missiles with teh way he's been acting

What's wrong with that stuff?

[Ircher]

Whats wrong with them?

1) Whats wrong with trying something different. Especially if what you usually do doesn't work very well? Not all of us are great at mafia; not all of us are even good at mafia.
2) It's an opinion. What's wrong with an opinion. Also, what's wrong with having other IRL stuff and commitments?
3) Ok, thats perhaps is a bit questionable, but it's more an attempt to keep the game moving versus trying to be rude. Still not sure what the big deal.

1. Because you say you want to try something different but you don't say what it is (and you claim you're bad at finding scum by reading posts). So I didn't know if you'll be singing kumbaya, collecting the exodia pieces to call forth the forbidden one, or gathering the dragon balls to summon shenron as your new innovative method to solving mafia.
2. Your other responsibilities part combined with claiming this game comes as last in your priority list cemented you as possibly being useless this entire game.
3. Because it's anti-town and unfair as I already pointed out. Also for a person who had just come into the thread and has yet to be catch up, I'm not sure why you were particularly interested in "keeping the game moving".

1) I generally skip summaries. This time, I've added a summary of a lot of posts in the game. Different strategy; again, I think you are overreading.
2) I'm active in about 85% of games I play. I was just saying that this thread would be last in my priority list. That doesn't mean I'm useless; there are SEVERAL players who do much less than I generally do. (Not sure about this playerlist though.)
3) It's neither anti-town nor unfair as I already explained. Explain how it was anti-town. And I'm interested in keeping games moving cuz if they stall, they become boring and then I stop trying. I play and mod games for the suspense of reading your responses; dead games are zero fun because there is zero new content.

[Ircher]

Spoiler: Summary & Thoughts Pg 11-15

1. Pg 11 #250 --> Accountant is choosing submarine.
2. Pg 11 #258 --> Lamb explains how she "broke" codes in Defcon 3 and that's why she wants Eavesdrop
3. Pg 11 #260 --> Mastina references Left for Dead mafia and says she's never (?) trolls as town. <-- I'm not familiar with that game. Elaborate possibly?
4. Pg 11 #268 --> Accountant states mastina is obvscum <-- I disagree w/ the assettion; things are never as simple as they seem. Mastina is just asking to be lynched prob. regardless of alignment.
5. Pg 11 #272 --> Nuke asserts Accountant is town <-- What made you decide this? I was thinking the exact opposite just now.
6. Pg 12 #283 --> Nahdia townreads mastina cuz its a pretty "ballsy" move to make as scum <-- In essence, the argument of wine in front of me. Seriously, the trolling is null imo.
7. Pg 12 #285 --> Nuke says Nahdia is scum <-- Are you just gonna randomly call people scum all day? Why is Nahdia scum?
8. Pg 12 #286 --> Nuke believes mastina is prob. town
9. Pg 13 #307 --> Arthur plans to "dayvig" Smart for his earlier post #26
10. Pg 13 #310 --> Spyrex: "307 is a pretty good redemption" <-- I have no idea what you are talking about right here. Would you please clarify what you were referring to?
11. Pg 13 #315 --> Arthur quotes #245 by Nahdia & underlines the Counterintelligence as #1 pick and exclaims wtf <-- What's so bad about Counterintelligence? Why would scum want it more and openly claim like so? I'm assuming you scumread the post (?).
12. Pg 13 #320 --> Accountant claims Dayne is probs scum <-- I'm starting to get annoyed by these shallow reads. Personal issue of mine I guess, but can't we add a little more meat than simply "X is scum. Y is town. Z is probably scum.", etc.?
13. Pg 13 #321 --> Reck complains about being unable to win no matter what <-- Tbf, you just came in & voted No War & everything just to be a jerk. Besides, that post looks like frustrated scum; that does not look town-ish in the slightest, even given the benefit of the doubt.
14. Pg 14 #325 --> Reck says **** and asks people to remind him of the page to see if he can remember why he said **** <-- Why did you say **** at the top of the page?
15. Pg 14 #326 --> SpyreX claims Reck is town
16. Pg 14 #327 --> Reck remembers about 325 and says Spyrex is scum <-- ??? Where did that read come from?
17. Pg 14 #329 --> Reck provides a readlist and states opinion on Lamb <-- This post is better than your past few posts, but I would like your scumread explanations
18. Pg 14 #331 --> Asks if Reck's reads will be explained <-- Why are you so suddenly interested in reads explanations? Baffles me; truly, it does.
19. Pg 14 #335 --> Reck explains his reads <-- Fair enough, I guess. At least you're finally doing stuff.
20. Pg 14 #349 --> Accountant explains suicide to save nukes idea
21. Pg 15 #361 --> Accountant mentions Cephir's shallow reaction to posts <-- Hrm... Good point, will keep a closer eye on that

Spoiler: Reads

Confirmed Town

(From my perspective) (98%-100% Confidence)
Ircher  (100%) - Role PM

Likely Town

(85%-97% Confidence)

Leaning Town

(60%-84% Confidence)
Cheetory (75%) - I really liked his early posts especially #23; just strong town vibes from this guy.
GuyInFreezer (70%) - I have seen nothing wrong with his posts and the thought process he exhibits seems town-motivated. Still like his posts.

Null

(0% - 30% Confidence; No/Very Weak Read)
Hiplop (0%) - Also nothing notable in either direction from this slot.
McMenno (0%) - Nothing to convince me one way or another, not even a little.
Papa Zito (-1%) - Not much from here either; kinda didn't like #39 even though its a troll post....
Untrod Tripod (-10%) - Has this slot even done anything constructive yet? Seems to be "Nuking X" then "I'm gonna Nuke Y" with the sole intention of making the thread longer.
Nukebringer (-12%) - Nothing to townread here and a lot of finger-pointing and trolling. Starting not to like this.
Mastina (-25%) - Being utterly useless (KTS useless or worse) and needs rope immediately. Probably not mafia, but I could see this as a Terrorist. Day 1 PL please.

Neutral

(31%-59% Confidence; Mixed Read)
Magna (+50%) - Post #225 was a very strong post and seems to be a typical town!Magna post. (Not sure if I got scum meta with Magna though...)
Nahdia (+43%) - Very clear and articulate; post #210 gave me strong town vibes.
Accountant (+41%) - Have liked this slot's observations so far, esp. #361.
SpyreX (+40%) - I haven't really liked his posts, but I think that's more a personal bias. Probably biased because SpyreX is trolling a good bit.
Arthur (+38%) - Decent entrance.
Lamb (-31%) - Could go either way here. Not sure that the thought process from this slot is town; this suicide idea sounds rather stupid as done the decryption idea.
Cephir (-32%) - Accountant's #361 gives me a reason to scumread the slot and Cephir hasn't been super constructive. Nonetheless, I need to investigate further here it seems.
Spiffeh (-40%) - Main complaint here is Spiffeh's just pointing random fingers at people and saying their scum without backing up their claim. I guess thats really a null tell, but I'm reserving further judgement until I see otherwise.

Leaning Scum

(60%-75% Confidence)
RedCoyote (-70%) - I was townreading Red until Lamb's comment in #167 which got me suspicious. Red proceeds to post #180 which really struck me as what Lamb said in #167. While some of Red's info has seemed useful, a lot of it really does look like filler and trying to look busy.
xRECKONERx (-75%) - I really didn't like the way he voted No to Total War.... Some of his posts like #321 really look like scum posts, but the slot's posts are starting to look better.

Likely Scum

(76%-100% Confidence)
Something_Smart (-76%) - Post #26 really pinged as the scum thing to do. Yes, it's a self-meta statement, but also the fact that he justs plans to sheep whoever and not try to solve the game is even more indicative of scum.

[Ircher]

Spoiler: Summary & Thoughts Pg 16-20

1. Pg 16 #375 --> Cephir is easy to manipulate & would scumread Arthur if he was being frustrating on him (which he isn't)
2. Pg 16 #376 --> Accountant quotes #375 & states it needs to be lynched <-- Looked fairly innocuous to me. I'll wait for your explanation though...
3. Pg 16 #377 --> Accountant explains that Cephir could use it to say he was scumreading Arthur & that he was easy to force elsewhere <-- Valid point; I'll wait and see
4. Pg 16 #380 --> Arthur states that Cephir's post about no total war looks bad cuz it makes him appear to be busy <-- Not sure I agree with the argument here under the fact of how early the post was
5. Pg 16 #381 --> Arthur suggests a townbloc with him & Accountant <-- Highly suspicious here; there is no way that there's enough for you to read to be considering a townbloc. Seems like scum trying to force themselves into a townbloc so they wont get lynched.
6. Pg 16 #392 --> Arthur asks SpyreX how fast he'll dayvig Lamb <-- Umm.... What? Where did this question coming from and why did you ask?
7. Pg 17 #405 --> Smart posts a readslist w/ scumread on Cephir, Guy, and Nuke
8. Pg 17 #407 --> Smart references his post in 26 and states he liked Guy's response the least. Also states that Guy's posts 207 & 213 feel forced <-- I disagre on everything you said besides post 213 which was questionable now that you mention it. Imo, you are being nitpickey, although I guess more substance from Guy might be a good thing.
9. Pg 17 #408 --> Accountant mentions that Smart is implying #26 was a reaction test <-- I concur; all the more reason why the post looks really bad
10. Pg 17 #415 --> Smart states it wasn't intended to produce reactions (#26) & that his vote was delayed cuz it used to matter and now does <-- Two problems: a) The way it was worded (the fact you mentioned it at all) was guaranteed to produce reactions b) You voted For Total War despite it no longer mattering. Why? Also, the wording there is just makes it feel this is scum I'm seeing....
11. Pg 17 #417 --> Smart admits he still hasn't decided <-- Then again, why did you vote? Your earlier answer was a non-answer; it's a scum answer evading the point. *Why did you vote for Total War now despite still being undecided, and what difference does it make that we aren't going to Total War other than we aren't going to Total War?*
12. Pg 17 #424 --> Cheet gives a meta description of Cephrir (incredibly self-aware), questions Smart's unexplained reads, and does other stuff. <-- Strong post imo by Cheet.
13. Pg 18 #428 --> Zito says Red Coyote and Nahdia need death by nukes <-- My question is, how do you read a thread in less than 30 minutes without hardcore skimming? This is taking me like an hour plus per 5 pages, yet it takes you 20 or so minutes to read the thread?
14. Pg 18 #430 --> Reck argues Smart is town cuz scum don't make those posts <-- Less wine please. More logical/substandial explanations please rather than shall reads. Thank you.
15. Pg 18 #434 --> Cephrir reads Reck as town <-- The wording here makes me question the sincerity; kinda feels like scum kissing up to a player for towncred.
16. Pg 18 #436 --> Zito apologizes that Accountant is a slow reader <-- Maybe writing this takes up a lot of time, but I don't think reading speed has anything to do with this cuz a good reader TAKES NOTES (aka ANNOTATES) and you cant annotate without reading thoroughly. Not saying you're bad at reading, I'm just saying there's no way you did a THOROUGH read in 20 minutes
17. Pg 18 #443 --> Nahdia expresses some views and states she can be Policy-Nuked after counterintelligence is out of the game <-- I like this post & I feel that agree with quite a few of the assertions in it.
18. Pg 19 #451 --> Spiffeh can't understand the Red scumreads and states Red is in top 3 townreads <-- Care to elaborate? I was townreading that player until what Lamb's point in #167
19. Pg 19 #464 --> Cephrir votes against total war <-- Interesting... What are your reason(s)?
20. Pg 19 #469 --> Smart says MoI's posts were bull**** <-- Yep, flailing scum at this point. Magna's points were on-point in #452.

Spoiler: Reads

Confirmed Town

(From my perspective) (98%-100% Confidence)
Ircher  (100%) - Role PM

Likely Town

(85%-97% Confidence)
Cheetory (88%) - I really liked his early posts especially #23; just strong town vibes from this guy. I continue to see multiple strong posts from this slot like #424.

Leaning Town

(60%-84% Confidence)
Accountant (80%) - Have liked this slot's observations so far, esp. #361. Continued to like the observations & questions throughout pages 16 and 17.
Magna (70%) - Post #225 was a very strong post and seems to be a typical town!Magna post, and Magna continues to make well-reasoned and valid posts like #452. (Not sure if I got scum meta with Magna though...)
GuyInFreezer (65%) - His posts are fine, but need more substances. I'm becoming paranoid of my townread here right now.

Null

(0% - 30% Confidence; No/Very Weak Read)
Hiplop (0%) - Also nothing notable in either direction from this slot.
McMenno (0%) - Nothing to convince me one way or another, not even a little.
Papa Zito (-5%) - Not much from here either; kinda didn't like #39 even though its a troll post.... Didn't like how he seemingly did a thorough read of the thread in 20 minutes; seems unrealistic.
Untrod Tripod (-11%) - Has this slot even done anything constructive yet? Seems to be "Nuking X" then "I'm gonna Nuke Y" with the sole intention of making the thread longer.
Nukebringer (-13%) - Nothing to townread here and a lot of finger-pointing and trolling. Starting not to like this.
Mastina (-24%) - Being utterly useless (KTS useless or worse) and needs rope immediately. Probably not mafia, but I could see this as a Terrorist. Day 1 PL please.

Neutral

(31%-59% Confidence; Mixed Read)
Nahdia (+55%) - Very clear and articulate; post #210 gave me strong town vibes. I also liked post #443.
Cephir (+42%) - On further investigation, especially the meta description, I'm back to leaning towards town on this slot.
SpyreX (+40%) - I haven't really liked his posts, but I think that's more a personal bias. Probably biased because SpyreX is trolling a good bit.
Lamb (-31%) - Could go either way here. Not sure that the thought process from this slot is town; this suicide idea sounds rather stupid as done the decryption idea.
Arthur (-32%) - Decent entrance, but I wasn't a huge fan of his comments on page 17, esp. asking Accountant to be in a townbloc with him. Possibly biased here (?)
Spiffeh (-37%) - Main complaint here is Spiffeh's just pointing random fingers at people and saying their scum without backing up their claim. I guess thats really a null tell, but I'm reserving further judgement until I see otherwise.

Leaning Scum

(60%-75% Confidence)
RedCoyote (-70%) - I was townreading Red until Lamb's comment in #167 which got me suspicious. Red proceeds to post #180 which really struck me as what Lamb said in #167. While some of Red's info has seemed useful, a lot of it really does look like filler and trying to look busy.
xRECKONERx (-72%) - I really didn't like the way he voted No to Total War.... Some of his posts like #321 really look like scum posts, but the slot's posts are starting to look better. Possibly reevaluate this slot (?)

Likely Scum

(76%-100% Confidence)
Something_Smart (-90%) - Post #26 really pinged as the scum thing to do. Yes, it's a self-meta statement, but also the fact that he justs plans to sheep whoever and not try to solve the game is even more indicative of scum. His posts in pages 16-20 continue to be bad and indicative of scum. Needs rope.

[Ircher]

I don't think anyone ever tried when there were no nukes calm down dag

And ircher i swear to everything holy I'm gonna need you to get crayons out and explain trolling or a lolbomb is going right in your facemeat

My read didn't really change for you, but you were trolling a good bit at the beginning of the game. It kinda stopped as the game has progressed, but that was the last major reason for reading you.

[Ircher]

Don't put yourself as confirmed town, Ircher. That's so silly and unnecessary. I guess it's a pet peeve. No one expects you to analyze yourself.

It's a copy-paste template from when I was starting the site. Besides, it's merely an issue of style as I'm not sing it to suggest anything significant given m reasoning (role pm); it does help reinforce that secton of my reads: it's from MY perspective not other people's perspective or the bystander's perspective, so in essence, the marking may actually be useful to some extent.

You can ignore that though, I have no issue with that, but I refuse to be assimilated into your style of doing things.

[Ircher]

Vote: Against Total War

Spoiler: Extremely obnoxious, possibly seizure-inducing Animated GIF

Seriously Reck? SERIOUSLY?

[Ircher]

Untrod Tripod (-10%) - Has this slot even done anything constructive yet?

No.

Mastina (-25%) - Being utterly useless (KTS useless or worse) and needs rope immediately. Probably not mafia, but I could see this as a Terrorist. Day 1 PL please.

This read is really horrible. Why do you think the SK would be acting like that?

Magna (+50%) - Post #225 was a very strong post

In what way.

SpyreX (+40%) - I haven't really liked his posts, but I think that's more a personal bias. Probably biased because SpyreX is trolling a good bit.

So he's trolling and you don't like his posts yet he's sitting at "+40%", 1% under someone whose observations you're liking?

1) ?
2) Wine In Front of Me
3) Read the flipping spoilers. The better idea is for you to point out what's wrong with it and then I can either explain why I still think its strong or amend my read. Simply contesting a read of a post is useless.
4) Personal bias against SoyreX's playstyle & the fact that I factor in quantity AS WELL AS quality into my reads.

[Ircher]

Also stop thinking you're a special snowflake and posting in colors because half of them are unreadable and are headache inducing.

Simple solution: Don't use Tigers theme. Shouldn't be a problem on Mafblack and it cannot be that bad on maf!Sepia cuz red works there and yellow is probably readable & orange isn't a stupid color.

If you're using Sepia, that's on you; I personally like the color-coding and the colors are not as you say "unreadable". They show up fairly well; the worst one is prob. the yellow.

[Ircher]

Be thankful I took the time to try to read the thread and develop reads.

[Ircher]

Is probably better to use a 1 colour to 1 colour gradient and maybe organize them from most scummy to most townie.
But that's just me/my preferences.

@RC

, any updated thoughts in terms of like.. people's play?

It's organized in that manner with the small exception that the Null-Scum and Null-Town are collapsed into a single Null category and the Neutral-Town and Neutral-Scum into a single Neutral category. I coukd do that, but I like the colors. In terms of reading Null/Neutral reads, it's important to pay attention to signs which I make explicit.

Stop whining about how other people format their posts unless they make it literally deliberately unreadable

Is this at me or someone else?

Pedit: Can we agree to disagree on that score?

[Ircher]

Spoiler: Summary & Thoughts Pg 21-25

1. Pg 21 #502 --> Spiffeh states Smart and Nuke needs nuke <-- Why Nukebringer? I understand Smart (he really does need lynch anyway), but not Nukebringer
2. Pg 21 #507 --> Spiffeh explains a possible scumread of Guy <-- I agree that the evidence suggests this, but I question whether or not this is scum. Do you have any meta with town!Guy? Does he normally act like such? (Huge reason why I believe meta is important even though it's not holy).
3. Pg 21 #511 --> Zito lols at a quote of Soiffeh's null reads in #511 <-- What's so funny?
4. Pg 21 #514 --> Arthur copies what Zito did only quoting the Cephrir townread <-- Wasn't funny the 1st time and even less so the 2nd time. What don't you like about the Cephrir read and why?
5. Pg 21 #516 --> Zito wants to kill Nuke for being a hydra <-- And the purpose of such a policy lynch/nuke is _____. PLs have, in my experience, been generally bad ideas without sufficient warrant (eg: mastina trolling in this game is disruptive to the flow of the game & should be dealt with)
6. Pg 21 #519 --> Arthur leans town on Smart <-- Why? What has Smart done that you found townie?
7. Pg 22 #529 --> Nuke scumreads Spiffeh cuz the reads seem fake & apparent lack of opinion on Nuke despite scumread <-- I can see this.
8. Pg 22 #533 --> Spiffeh argues meta experience when reading Nukebringer head & that head is trying to discredit from the get go <-- Unless I'm mistaken, aren't you talking to Equinox? Fire has signed a lot of his posts, and yet I feel as if you're referring to Fire here. Just asking for clarification.
9. Pg 22 #536 --> Top part of Red's post states that the Total War vote doesn't matter versus the argument itself <-- I beg to differ; those who vote against should be required to give some form of explanation which can later be used for scumhunting and consistency checks. The vote alone is indeed practically useless at this point, but the motive behind the choice is still important.
10. Pg 22 #542 --> Arthur has a problem with Red voting against Total War <-- Why is that an issue? Besides, Red had already way back when mentioned he was leaning towards such anyway.
11. Pg 22 #547 --> Hiplop has a solid townread on Grey <-- Where does that townread come from? Grey has done so little that it's not worth keeping space in my readslist for him.
12. Pg 23 #557 --> Red posts a readslist <-- This readslist is unreadable cuz its a sliding scale with no indication of where null reads fall.
13. Pg 23 #558 --> Lady Lamb calls put Hiplop for backing off on his strong townread of mastina after a little pressure <-- Agreed.
14. Pg 23 #563 --> Hiplop states that mastina will be killed anyway regardless of Hiplop's read <-- That's a non-answer. I'm more curious as to why you are evading the question.
15. Pg 23 #565 --> Hiplop has scumvibes on Errant <-- Elaborate; Errant has barely posted in-thread
16. Pg 23 #568 --> Arthur calls Red for fluffing in the thread <-- You and Lamb thought alike on this score; see #167
17. Pg 23 #572 --> Hiplop speculates scumteam is Nahdia-McMenno-Untrod team <-- Interesting.... Care to elaborate?
18. Pg 24 #575 --> McMenno states Lamb is scum <-- Can you elaborate on this read?
19. Pg 24 #581 --> Spiffeh cannot understand why anyone is townreading Firebringer after his "bull****ery" <-- If you're referring to the trolling, then I don't understand how that is at all indicative of Fire!scum. Enlighten me perhaps?
20. Pg 24 #585 --> Nahdia's 3 townreads are Cheetory, Zito, Cephrir <-- I understand all of those except perhaps Zito.
21. Pg 24 #587 --> McMenno asks Hiplop who the terrorist is <-- Why are you so keen on finding the terrorist right now?
22. Pg 24 #588 --> Guy states Nahdia is town <-- Question: Are you gonna to continue to post 1-liners?
23. Pg 25 #601 --> Arthur states he was watching for those who go for low-hanging fruit and says Magna & Cephrir already fell for it <-- Seems a pretty bad idea in terms of early analysis especially since I don't see Nahdia as a VI and Smart being a VI is debatable. How confident are you in the accuracy of this "trap card"?
24. Pg 25 #603 --> Guy states Low Hanging Fruit != Town <-- Totally agree w/ this although you have to be more cautious when reading them
25. Pg 25 #610 --> Smart thinks that Guy is saying low hanging fruit = scum & that's the reason for scumread <-- I might reevaluate my read here, but thats not at all what they were saying. Bad posts can be town, they can be scum, they can be neutral/null.
26. Pg 25 #611 --> Arthur says VIs are town if they sound genuine <-- And how do you guage genuineness?
27. Pg 25 #619 --> Grey makes a post addressed at Arthur about the trap card nonsense and bad players can draw scum too <-- Concur entirely with what was said in this post
28. Pg 25 #622 --> Arthur found Smart's #405 to be genuine because he had to think about the setup <-- Too much wine in front of me this game..... Ugh.... And I don't even drink (nor am allowed to....)

Spoiler: Reads

Confirmed Town

(From my perspective) (98%-100% Confidence)
Ircher  (100%) - Role PM

Likely Town

(85%-97% Confidence)
Cheetory (88%) - I really liked his early posts especially #23; just strong town vibes from this guy. I continue to see multiple strong posts from this slot like #424.

Leaning Town

(60%-84% Confidence)
Accountant (80%) - Have liked this slot's observations so far, esp. #361. Continued to like the observations & questions throughout pages 16 and 17.
Magna (68%) - Post #225 was a very strong post and seems to be a typical town!Magna post, and Magna continues to make well-reasoned and valid posts like #452. (Not sure if I got scum meta with Magna though...)
GuyInFreezer (66%) - His posts are fine, but need more substance.
SpyreX (60%) - Meh, I'm satisfied with this slot for now. The trolling was just the beginning of the game; it stopped a long time ago.

Null

(0% - 30% Confidence; No/Very Weak Read)
Grey (+25%) - One good post from this slot (#619), but otherwise, nothing to read this slot off of.
McMenno (-3%) - Was a bit keen on finding the terrorist which I feel is less important than finding group!scum
Papa Zito (-8%) - Not much from here either; kinda didn't like #39 even though its a troll post.... Didn't like how he seemingly did a thorough read of the thread in 20 minutes; seems unrealistic.
Untrod Tripod (-11%) - Has this slot even done anything constructive yet? Seems to be "Nuking X" then "I'm gonna Nuke Y" with the sole intention of making the thread longer.
Nukebringer (-13%) - Nothing to townread here and a lot of finger-pointing and trolling. Starting not to like this.
Mastina (-15%) - Being utterly useless (KTS useless or worse) and needs rope immediately. Probably not mafia, but I could see this as a Terrorist. Day 1 PL please. Leaning towards null now.

Neutral

(31%-59% Confidence; Mixed Read)
Nahdia (+55%) - Very clear and articulate; post #210 gave me strong town vibes. I also liked post #443.
Cephrir (+42%) - On further investigation, especially with the meta description, I'm back to leaning towards town on this slot.
Lamb (+3%) - Could go either way here. My read keeps flip-flopping; half the stuff seems town; the other half scum
Spiffeh (-32%) - I haven't followed this slot's reads in terms of why -- Seems toorandom
Arthur (-40%) - Decent entrance, but I wasn't a huge fan of his comments on page 17, esp. asking Accountant to be in a townbloc with him. His defense of Smart seems over done & the result of multiple logical fallancies.
Hiplop (-59%) - Is just throwing out stuff that make zero sense; reads APPEAR to be contradictory and inconsistent from one post to the next.

Leaning Scum

(60%-75% Confidence)
RedCoyote (-68%) - I was townreading Red until Lamb's comment in #167 which got me suspicious. Red proceeds to post #180 which really struck me as what Lamb said in #167. While some of Red's info has seemed useful, a lot of it really does look like filler and trying to look busy.
xRECKONERx (-70%) - I really didn't like the way he voted No to Total War.... Some of his posts like #321 really look like scum posts, but the slot's posts are starting to look better. Possibly reevaluate this slot (?)

Likely Scum

(76%-100% Confidence)
Something_Smart (-89%) - Post #26 really pinged as the scum thing to do. Yes, it's a self-meta statement, but also the fact that he justs plans to sheep whoever and not try to solve the game is even more indicative of scum. His posts in pages 16-20 continue to be bad and indicative of scum. Needs rope. Considering the possibility that this is a weaker player, but Smart seems to be above the "Newbie-feel" and more on par with prob. my own skill in mafia.

[Ircher]

Stop whining about how other people format their posts unless they make it literally deliberately unreadable

Ok, that is a bit hard to read.

Is this readable?

Is this readable?

Is this readable?

Is this readable?

[Ircher]

?

[Ircher]

I'm still stuck on trolling

Like boy you aint seen a moose much less a troll if you think I'm a troll dag

Ok, I looked back at your ISO.

I concede -- Not trolling (more likely carefree-ness which is ok just not my style; I'm generally serious about stuff)

[Ircher]

xRECKONERx (-75%) - I really didn't like the way he voted No to Total War.... Some of his posts like #321 really look like scum posts, but the slot's posts are starting to look better.

why do you not like me voting no

why do my posts look like scum posts

I got lazy with my explanations, and some of it can be best describe as "gut". Regarding your vote --> The way you did it seemed super care-free amongst other things; really pinged me.

Vote: Against Total War

Spoiler: Extremely obnoxious, possibly seizure-inducing Animated GIF

Seriously Reck? SERIOUSLY?

what does this mean

Did you even READ the spoiler text I ADDED IN?

"Extremely obnoxious, possibly seizure-inducing animated GIF"

ircher how is it i have been listed as "reevaluate this slot" for several consecutive posts now

ircher can die to nukes imo

Reevaluate later means I do it when I finish catching up or your posts and do ISOs, you give me reason to change my opinion, or someone else's posts give me a reason to change my opinion.

[Ircher]

Spoiler: Summary & Thoughts Pg 26-30

1. Pg 26 #625 --> Arthur explains why Smart's post sound genuine: he elected to provide reads instead of answer the setup question <-- That's a fair evaluation. Scum would imo be less likely to skip the setup question because it is probably easier.
2. Pg 26 #628 --> Grey states that Arthur explaining a game mechanic from a completely scum perspective is a huge scumtell <-- I don't think I quite understand; what do you mean by "fully scum" perspective (how is it different from just a "scum" perspective); furthermore, how is it a huge scumtell?
3. Pg 26 #649 --> Arthur quotes #644 and asks if I'm gonna perform voodoo and states he asks cuz he thinks I'm gonna be useless the entire game <-- Out of curiosity, while that may have been your immediate response, why did you NOT give the benefit of the doubt; why did you just jump to xonclusions rather than give me a chance to do something? If you were expecting the thread to be read in 5 or less minutes, then that's unreasonable. Otherwise, you could've given me some time to do SOMETHING before you jumped to such a conclusion.
4. Pg 27 #652 --> Arthur states that moving to Defcon 4 is unfair <-- While I appreciate your concern for the replacement, you are making a few assumptions. First of all, you are assuming that the player needs to read the entire thread to make a decision; I disagree, the first few posts by the mod and your role pm is probably more than sufficient in terms of deciding your role. Second of all, you are assuming that not moving gives the replacement more time. It realky doesn't; maybe 24 hours maximum, but your assertion that the replacee cannot catchup in 72 hours is flawed by the fact that such deadlines (actually 48h) are quite common here. Also, explain how moving on is anti-town -- I don't see that.
5. Pg 27 #656 --> Accountant states Hiplop is scum and we shouldn't policy-nuke Nukebringer <-- While I concur on both, I would prefer for Nukebringer to start doing stuff cuz they're not playing in a town manner atm. Aka, they need to be gone sooner or later unless they start trying and doing stuff.
6. Pg 27 #663 --> Accountabt states I'm the terrorist <-- While I can see that, do you not doubt yourself for a moment? Also, why are we interested in identifying the Terrorist at this stage of the game?
7. Pg 27 #666 --> Accountant states I'm paranoid about nukes & staying out of the lime light <-- Eh, just no. Why is nuke paranoia a Terrorist tell? Why can't scum be paranoid? Why can't town be paranoid, esp. if they get wagoned/lynched a lot? Also, I very much doubt I'm staying out of the limelight; on the contrary, I'm probably bringing undue notice onto myself.
8. Pg 28 #676 --> Spiffeh says Hiplop is inconsistent and tends to dig himself into a hole <-- Interesting, I'll keep this in mind
9. Pg 28 #682 --> Accountant shares case on Hiplop <-- I concur w/ this case; really have been liking practically all of Accountan's posts
10. Pg 28 #684 --> Untrod plans on nuking me <-- Can I ask why?
11. Pg 28 #698 --> Untrod quotes Smart's posts in relation to his "reaction test" <-- While I come to the same conclusion, I like how you conveniently decided to leave out the part where Smart stated it wasn't intended as a reaction test. No matter your case, try to provide both sides of the argument; it gives the best view of the game.
12. Pg 29 #700 --> Arthur brings up the part where Smart said it wasn't intended as a reaction test <-- Here we go, the conveniently left out part of the entire convo about Smart's #26. I wouldn't call it a backtrack, but I still question why Smart posted #26 at all; I believe Smart when he says it wasn't intended as a reaction test.
13. Pg 29 #707 --> Arthur asks what the scum intent in #26 <-- My answer is his use of the meta statement to help justify himself sheeping the entire game and not forming his own reads. THATS the scum intent, not the fact that he guaged reactions with it. This may be contradictory to my earlier stance; I forgot what it was, but I feel this is a more objective stance to take if that is the case. Also: AtE.
14. Pg 29 #717 --> Zito questions Accountant when Acct says Zito is acting silly versus an earlier comment that Zito was acting scummy <-- How are the two mutually exclusive? Why can someone not be both silly and scummy? Also, scummy != scum just as townie != town; that is the essence of WIFOM and why "scumtells" hardly ever work. I do love (not) how you decided to nitpick word choice though.
15. Pg 30 #726 --> Arthur says scum would recover from an "I'm town" mistak in a more obvious way <-- I agree with the logic here, but I think you ignored the larger context of #26 and how it was worded. See my earlier comment.
16. Pg 30 #732 --> McMenno says he had a scumread of me once, let go of it, and vows never doing that again <-- There are so many things wrong with this. The first and primary one being is how many times (outside of marathons), have I been scum against you, McMenno? I think zero (maybe once if you counted that super-bastard not really mafia game where I was SK...). Next, how is your statement relevant at the current moment. And third, what kind of STUPIDITY IN TERMS OF PLAY is that; alignments are random and reads SHOULD BE DYNAMIC; you shouldn't be deciding to stick to a Day 1 scumread on Day 4 just because you were wrong maybe once in the past when you changed your mind on a read.
17. Pg 30 #733 --> GreyIce asks McMenno to elaborate on #732 <-- Respectable post; very good question to ask
18. Pg 30 #744 --> McMenno responds to GreyIce by stating he scumread me then he didn't, .... <-- What nonsense is this? Sarcastic or not sarcastic, I want the questions answered WITH AN ACTUAL ANSWER since you decided to bring it up in the first place.
19. Noting that mastina starts playing the game on page 30.

Spoiler: Reads

Confirmed Town

(From my perspective) (98%-100% Confidence)
Ircher  (100%) - Role PM

Likely Town

(85%-97% Confidence)
Accountant (93%) - Have liked this slot's observations so far, esp. #361. Continued to like the observations & questions throughout pages 16 and 17. Very few posts I have complaints with, and most are more on a perspective/viewpoint complaint rather than posts I think come from scum. I really like the questioning as it not only feels natural but also shows a genuine interest in finding scum.
Cheetory (87%) - I really liked his early posts especially #23; just strong town vibes from this guy. I continue to see multiple strong posts from this slot like #424.

Leaning Town

(60%-84% Confidence)
MagnaofIllusion (68%) - Post #225 was a very strong post and seems to be a typical town!Magna post, and Magna continues to make well-reasoned and valid posts like #452. (Not sure if I got scum meta with Magna though...)
GuyInFreezer (66%) - His posts are fine, but need more substance.
SpyreX (64%) - Meh, I'm satisfied with this slot for now. The trolling was just the beginning of the game; it stopped a long time ago.

Null

(0% - 30% Confidence; No/Very Weak Read)
Untrod Tripod (-15%) - Noting that he conveniently left out Smart's statement that #26 wasn't intended as a reaction test in his argument in #698
Nukebringer (-18%) - Nothing to townread here and a lot of finger-pointing and trolling. Starting not to like this. This slot needs to start doing things.
Papa Zito (-20%) - Post #717 felt like questioning just to question; it seemed unnecessary and noisy.

Neutral

(31%-59% Confidence; Mixed Read)
Ser Arthur Dayne (+58%) - Decent entrance, but I wasn't a huge fan of his comments on page 17, esp. asking Accountant to be in a townbloc with him. His defense of Smart seems over done & the result of multiple logical fallancies. This slot's thought process is town as evidenced by his reasonable defense of Smart; scum!Smart + scum!Arthur team would imo more likely end in a bus of Smart.
Nahdia (+55%) - Very clear and articulate; post #210 gave me strong town vibes. I also liked post #443.
Mastina (+52%) - This slot's town. Reading page 30 just tells me this slot is town (gut).
Cephrir (+42%) - On further investigation, especially with the meta description, I'm back to leaning towards town on this slot.
GreyICE (+35%) - One good post from this slot (#619), but otherwise, nothing to read this slot off of. When he posts, his posts are decent and show an attempt to solve the game.
Lady Lambdelta (+33%) - Could go either way here. My read keeps flip-flopping; half the stuff seems town; the other half scum
Spiffeh (-32%) - I haven't followed this slot's reads in terms of why -- Seems too random
Hiplop (-52%) - Is just throwing out stuff that make zero sense; reads APPEAR to be contradictory and inconsistent from one post to the next. Adjusted read based off meta comment.
McMenno (-55%) - Was a bit keen on finding the terrorist which I feel is less important than finding group!scum. Didn't like his comment in #732 because it seems extremely irrelevant, noisy, and FALSE/unnecessary (pretty sure I've not played against McMenno as scum thereby decreasing his statement's value). The non-answer in #744 is suspicious; these aren't the kind of statements makes if they want to troll. You should be prepared to back up/elaborate statements like that if they are to be seen as anything besides blind accusations/fluff.

Leaning Scum

(60%-75% Confidence)
RedCoyote (-68%) - I was townreading Red until Lamb's comment in #167 which got me suspicious. Red proceeds to post #180 which really struck me as what Lamb said in #167. While some of Red's info has seemed useful, a lot of it really does look like filler and trying to look busy.
xRECKONERx (-70%) - I really didn't like the way he voted No to Total War.... Some of his posts like #321 really look like scum posts, but the slot's posts are starting to look better. Possibly reevaluate this slot (?) (if the slot would post.....)

Likely Scum

(76%-100% Confidence)
Something_Smart (-82%) - Post #26 really pinged as the scum thing to do. Yes, it's a self-meta statement, but also the fact that he justs plans to sheep whoever and not try to solve the game is even more indicative of scum. His posts in pages 16-20 continue to be bad and indicative of scum. Needs rope. Considering the possibility that this is a weaker player, but Smart seems to be above the "Newbie-feel" and more on par with prob. my own skill in mafia. Not as confident in this read as I was, esp. after Arthur's defence of the slot.

[Ircher]

So.... How's everyone?

[Ircher]

He's town guys.
Didn't you hear him?

Are you sure?

[Ircher]

Because?

[Ircher]

VOTE: McMenno

[Ircher]

VOTE: McMenno

why did you piggyback off of cephrir's vote instead of voting redcoyote or something_smart, which I'm sure could have a wagon built on them?

RVS, you're obnoxipus, and your idiotic post that I already addressed elsewhere

[Ircher]

for the record I believe EP's pronoun is they

i have literally never seen someone err in the other direction so that was interesting

this LLD is reading Town atm.
Pushing on someone because they didn't know what an abbreviation meant is stupid but also feels towny to me just cause I don't see anyone with any amount of self-respect pulling something like that as scum.

~i dont like this~
but! there's this little seed of thought that you've inceptioned into my mind that you are town, we'll see where we take that

Small bad feelings towards accountant. Maybe ISO worthy because I can't pinpoint it.
Cephrir too.

both of the mcmenno votes leave me unhappy. not sayying that mcmenno is town. Cephrir's vote is founded on insignificant potshots (which is at least more excusable than ircher's vote which is terrible and unjustifiable)

VOTE: ircher

Did you even read my posts?

[Ircher]

What the hell.

I very specifically put in literally EVERY troop, in an order of most to least.
Given how many troops there were, I shoulda gotten at least ONE of them, especially since I figured...well.
Yaknow.

You'd be a bunch of nuke-happy gun-toting 'MURICANS.

Apparently not!

No Espionage. No Battleship. No Eavesdrop. No Aircraft Carrier. No Air Base. No Radar. No Dead Hand (my name for the failsafe). No Submarine. No Covert Ops Team. No Strategic Missile Defense. No Fighter. No Fallout Shelter. No Counterintelligence.

Literally EVERY. SINGLE. ONE. Of them got picked. By someone in the game.
Because if so much as ONE of them had been left unpicked, I should have gotten something!

My apologies.

[Ircher]

I am pretty sure I did not ask your reasons

and why are you still in an rvs mindset

Errant asked.

And RVS cuz we didnt have it at the beginning of the game.

[Ircher]

On the bright side:
Since we know 13 players didn't choose the nukes, we can probably safely assume most if not all of the scum were vying for troops.

On the negative side:
Since we know the scum most likely were vying for troops, that means we could potentially have six scum having stolen the assets the town was to have.

So keep that in mind.

I only submitted 5:

1. Strategic Missile Defense
2. Fallout Shelter
3. Covert Ops Team
4. Counterintelligence
5. Missile Silo

[Ircher]

I do believe though I made my intentions rather clear, so we'll leave it at that.

What's the case for Vax?

[Andrius]

What's the viting threshold?

(Just checking)

I'll edit it in. Was just thinking of what I forgot. Thought it was a V/LA. - Andy

[Ircher]

I really don't think it's a good idea to reveal draft selections

Hrm... Perhaps your right.

I'm expect to get lynched anyway though so prob. doesn't matter.

[Ircher]

I am pretty sure I did not ask your reasons

and why are you still in an rvs mindset

Errant asked.

And RVS cuz we didnt have it at the beginning of the game.

Rvs exists for a reason and it's one that clearly doesn't apply to this game

Killjoy.

[Ircher]

Can someone explain the Vax case/point me to it?

[Ircher]

@Vax
You know as well as I do it's not about experience but its about skill level.

Two completely different things; we are both arguably experienced at this game having played for over a year now.

[Ircher]

conspiracy paranoia is mostly newbtown thing.

If it's his first game? Maybe. But it's not.

Read my earlier comment.

[Ircher]

He certainly posts like newb.

Where?

[Ircher]

Actually, I think Guy might be right. People sure like to jump on the weakest links a lot.

Smart wagon perhaps? I'm up for Red too. We could also get rid of McMenno cuz he's a nuisance.
VOTE: Smart

Pedit: We could nuke Vax, we could nuke me (even though it will fail), yes, but I dont think Vax is good for lynching.

Pedit2: Stop ninjaing

[Ircher]

...I'm open to other choices too. Not Vax; I was considering it, but there is that less-skilled-at-mafia-than-most-players tone in the ISO.

Pedit: Links to the meta please? Anyway, I've only read about a half this thread plus some fragments.

[Ircher]

VOTE: someone

Oh right I forgot about him

VOTE: Smart

Are you fucking high.

Are you

[Ircher]

why the pedits every 3 secs?

[Ircher]

I'm treating GIF's "he's paranoid newbtown" argument as exactly equivalent to "my gut says he's town"

And that means?

Pedit: I asked like 3 times already to no avail.

Pedit2:

[Ircher]

Maybe one day I'll properly catch up
But it ain't today.

so just to make Cheetory even more angry, I'm going to ask him to link the case on vax

so I can just reply every points with "No, you're wrong."

Actually, don't.
The chance is, I'm not going to read it anyway today.

Ignore this post. I want the link.

[Ircher]

@Arthur --> Even for less skilled players, coherence and displayed skill can vary greatly depending on amount of effort. Do you have any examples of scum!Vax?

[Ircher]

Also, is Guy always terse and does he always post 1-2 liners?

[Ircher]

Vax seems pretty coherent there too. (I just glanced), so possibly an off-game? Your thoughts @ Arthur?

Pedit: @Cheet --> Seems legit. Still, there's some meat to the wagon; the question is if it's the right stuff.

Pedit2: Arthur/Zito brings up a valid point

Pedit3: LLD --> Case?

Pedit4: True, true.... But you kinda are @Guy

[Ircher]

Dont think it was a joke @Cheet

Pedit: I read the 1st 30 pages

[Ircher]

So, Vax vs. Arthur ==> Town vs Town it seems, moving on, who should we lynch?

[Ircher]

Cuz scum!Vax isnt any worse at the game than town!Vax

Pedit: WHY????? You arent nuking me anyway so.....

[Ircher]

also, tmrw?

Pedit: Not happening.

[Ircher]

Ill prob. sort Guy better later when PoE becomes a useful tool.

Pedit: Because I'll either survive or I'll shoot the nuke.

[Ircher]

Arthur, he's pulling nothing. The meta shows it. Scum!Vax is no less skilled than town!Vax.

[Ircher]

To be honest I would call Ircher town for that lulz-catchup he did but I am aware that effort != town.

I only went half-way through; will have to do the other 30 pages sometime I guess... 40 now prob.

Pedit: Not a VI. Just.... Different.

[Ircher]

Vax seems pretty coherent there too. (I just glanced), so possibly an off-game? Your thoughts @ Arthur?

Much more likely to have an "off-game" as second time scum, than it is to go from capable townie to pulling the newbie card this hard.

Sorry but when a townie has an off game it's with failing to keep up with the game, not getting enough good reads, lack of posting, being overwhelmed, etc.

Not fucking asking another player if they got a davig or not and general shitfest of posts.

That's much more likely nervous scum.

You're relying on prob.

Vax has a chance of scum, yes, but I am of the opinion that Vax is more likely town. He does seem to be having difficulty keeping up btw.

PEDIT: KNEW IT!

Pedit2: McMenno has had zero substance to his posts.

[Ircher]

I've let go of an ircher scumread before, won't happen again

also first

I've let go of an ircher scumread before, won't happen again

also first

Oh cool, tell me.

How did he fool you before and what reminds you of that time?

I scumread him

then I did not

then someone sarcastically asked me to recount these events

the end

And these posts were awful.

[Ircher]

Play what?

[Ircher]

ircher almost certainly has anti-nuke shit lined up, so if you want to get rid of ircher - which isn't a bad idea - we should use the rope

Maybe because I'm scum... Maybe because I'm Terrorist.... Maybe because I'm town who knows that someone will want to try to policy-nuke me for some dumb reason and wants to prevent that.... Who knows, who knows....

Pedit: Idk what that is.... Explain pls?

[Ircher]

NOOOOO! I'm #11!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! DAGNABBIT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Sorry.

[Ircher]

Lol
VOTE: Untrod
Sound case by Reck.

[Ircher]

He claimed he didn't know who didn't vote for not war.

He pointed to reading "posts like 505" and "not 559", and made his first post:

All right who didn't vote for total war????

Meanfuckingwhile

POST 505 SHOW WHO IS NOT VOTING FOR WAR.

At no point in the mod's ISO should Vaxkiller get the info we are not going to war WITHOUT also getting the info of "who didn't vote for total war????".

My theory is Vaxkiller found out we didn't go to war from the scum PT.

Hard to tell CUZ IT WAS HIS FIRST POST and VACKILLER MIGHT HAVE MEANT IT IN THE GENERAL (SETUP) SENSE.

Sorry fir caps; too lazy to bold rn.

[Ircher]

Ok, the wording's off, I'll give you that.

Still not comfortable with it as the D1 lynch though; feel like there's a better choice out there.

Pedit: Can we lynch Untrod first? We seem to have general support all-around.

[Ircher]

(Town do stupid stuff more oft then not simply by not paying as close attn. Scum would be less likely to make such a mistake and then go to such lengths to try to deny and cover it up)

[Ircher]

@SAD

Do you have a Dayvig or secret info about the game?

@Arthur --> Even for less skilled players, coherence and displayed skill can vary greatly depending on amount of effort. Do you have any examples of scum!Vax?

scumbuds spotted

could you stop chainsawing vaxkiller please? yeah.

I mean I def see the general uselessness in UT's posts.

Mcmenno and UT are the ones who have been skating the most under the surface. The former has some substance in his posts, the latter has none.

I've let go of an ircher scumread before, won't happen again

also first

I've let go of an ircher scumread before, won't happen again

also first

Oh cool, tell me.

How did he fool you before and what reminds you of that time?

I scumread him

then I did not

then someone sarcastically asked me to recount these events

the end

And these posts were awful.

aren't we all

Town can chainsaw / white-knight too. It's rarer, but I've seen it before.

[Ircher]

Reck's case was good and I wasn't townreading UT to begin with (Null leaning scum on UT).

My initial vote on McMenno was not piggyback --> I already explained my vote's reasons.

[Ircher]

Also, town can sheep too. Why is sheeping suddenly a massive scumtell?

[Ircher]

Would lynch D1: UT, McMenno
Possibly lynch D1: Red, Smart
Unlike to lynch D1, but not completely opposed: Vax
Won't lynch D1: Accountant, Cheetory, Mastina, prob. more people you can find in my last colored readslist

Pedit: So, reads should be static and oblivious to other players' reads? My UT read is null due to lack of content to adequately judge at the time. Again, what's wrong with sheeping a case I believe to be good?

[Ircher]

Reck was a scumread, yes, but for the past few readslist, I have had a note to reevaluate. Again, my most significant complaint was the way he voted for no Total War, but that aside, the case there is a lot weaker.

You also have to understand that the Neutral/Null reads work differently from the others; you have to pay attention to the signs of the percentages. He didn't jump even close to 15 slots; I cannit say without looking up, my guess is it was about a 6-8 positions change. I'm too lazy to separate Neutral-Tiwn from Neutral-Scum and Null-Town from Null-Scum so I put them in the same category and use the confidence percentages instead. Negative = Scum, Positive = Town.

Again, reads are not static; they constantly change esp. when someone has time to step back and reevaluate, even if a very little amount of time, a slot that they were possibly biased against.

[Ircher]

And noting I called Reck's earlier posts scummy, but in light of the fact of possible bias against the against vote, they're not quite as scummy as before. (Pings, yes; worthy to lynch, prob. not)

[Ircher]

Isn't that being nitpickey @Arthur?

[Ircher]

The two are independent of each ither imo even though some parts may be reevaluated based on flips.

[Ircher]

hmmm I take that back there might only be 1-2 scum on the UT wagon, being Ircher and Reck

Give your case.

[Ircher]

Calm down mastina.

We can work this out together.

[Ircher]

Basically mafblack is the only correct skin

Mafblack is a fucking cancer; mafsilver is the one true race.

are you crazy? Maf!Black is the most readable skin of them all! You're wrong if you use anything else; EVERYTHING (except black) shows up well on maf!Black.

[Ircher]

I'm not scum; I don't get how that is the FIRST assumption everyone makes whenever they read one of my posts. Regardless of what it states, it's "You're scum" that's the first thing that pops into everyone's mind.

Stop it.

Pedit: Black has no bugs

[Ircher]

In post 1464, McMenno wrote:

In post 1456, Ircher wrote:
VOTE: McMenno


why did you piggyback off of cephrir's vote instead of voting redcoyote or something_smart, which I'm sure could have a wagon built on them?



And you concluded it was a piggyback vote how?

wanted to address this in particular, you see he votes me immediately after cephrir does without any commentary then later tries to play it off as an rvs-y vote instead of you know... "yeah I was scumreading you and saw cephrir's vote as an opportunity to start a wagon on you"

and could you please be consistent? your posts sound like they're made by different players

oh and there's a difference between "scummy" (whatever that means) and "scum"

McMenno's scum; he's pushing for my lynch with some of the crappiest reasoning there is.

[Ircher]

Also, since McMenno is so keen on lynching less-skilled players and players with a habit of getting lynched as town this game without giving even a shadow of a doubt:

The phrase "scummy != scum" means that just because a player may do things that can be viewed as coming from scum (aka scummy), it doesn't necessarily mean that they are scum.

All those scumtells on the wiki..... They probably work about 10% of the time at best. Why? 1) Scum will actively avoid commiting them because.... they're scumtells 2) Townies, who are less cautious generally, have a tendency of commiting some of them by mistake/without intending to do so/sub-consciously.

Scumtells ONLY WORK if the player in question consistently does them as scum but not as often as town. You have to look at the big picture WHICH INCLUDES the player's

meta and playstyle

before you start trying to paint a behavior as something only scum would do even when it's quite obvious that town can do it too.

Sheeping is

not

a scumtell 9/10 times because 1) Town can do it 2) Town who townread a better player than themselves may decide that that player's reads are more likely to be accurate 3) Anyone will start sheeping if they become apathetic 4) It's not a behavior that even benefits scum a lot.
---
That said, my McMenno vote was

NOT

a sheep as I already explained giving

THREE

reasons for the vote, yet McMenno

focused on only

ONE

on those reasons and claimed my reasons were a

COVER-UP

because I

apparently

didn't want to be called out for sheeping.

Some other things people should realize: "Correlation doesn't imply Causation"; just because my vote came

soon after

Cephrir's vote

does not necessarily mean

that Cephrir's vote

caused

me to vote McMenno.

Maybe you didn't like my reasons for my Mc!enno; that's understandable as long as you show that you read them all. But, trying to press my vote as scummy even when 1) There's just as likely, if not moreso, chance that town COULD do something similar and 2) The number of assumptions to make for McMenno's account is more than the number of assumptions made for what I stated in terms of my vote (Occam's Razor) is beyond ridiculous;

it's scum behavior.

And I swear, if there were a lyncher in this game, it would DEFINITELY be McMenno with a win condition to try to lynch me; this isn't the first post of McMenno's that is outrageous and ridiculous with the sole intent of getting me lynched WITHOUT proper evidence or even effort to prove such.

It's obvious to me this is scum McMenno trying to get a lynch he believes to be easy to pull off.

VOTE: McMenno

[Ircher]

MafBlack is the best because it is the default skin

You clearly don't know your mafiascum history.
Mafsilver was the default since the site's conception, essentially.

It is the superior skin.

Welcome to the New Mafiascum where the Black is better than the Silver.

[Ircher]

@Mastina --> McMenno has so far done nothing constructive AT ALL this game imo.

Why do you think he's town?

[Ircher]

Also, since McMenno is so keen on lynching less-skilled players and players with a habit of getting lynched as town this game without giving even a shadow of a doubt:

The phrase "scummy != scum" means that just because a player may do things that can be viewed as coming from scum (aka scummy), it doesn't necessarily mean that they are scum.

All those scumtells on the wiki..... They probably work about 10% of the time at best. Why? 1) Scum will actively avoid commiting them because.... they're scumtells 2) Townies, who are less cautious generally, have a tendency of commiting some of them by mistake/without intending to do so/sub-consciously.

Scumtells ONLY WORK if the player in question consistently does them as scum but not as often as town. You have to look at the big picture WHICH INCLUDES the player's

meta and playstyle

before you start trying to paint a behavior as something only scum would do even when it's quite obvious that town can do it too.

Sheeping is

not

a scumtell 9/10 times because 1) Town can do it 2) Town who townread a better player than themselves may decide that that player's reads are more likely to be accurate 3) Anyone will start sheeping if they become apathetic 4) It's not a behavior that even benefits scum a lot.
---
That said, my McMenno vote was

NOT

a sheep as I already explained giving

THREE

reasons for the vote, yet McMenno

focused on only

ONE

on those reasons and claimed my reasons were a

COVER-UP

because I

apparently

didn't want to be called out for sheeping.

Some other things people should realize: "Correlation doesn't imply Causation"; just because my vote came

soon after

Cephrir's vote

does not necessarily mean

that Cephrir's vote

caused

me to vote McMenno.

Maybe you didn't like my reasons for my Mc!enno; that's understandable as long as you show that you read them all. But, trying to press my vote as scummy even when 1) There's just as likely, if not moreso, chance that town COULD do something similar and 2) The number of assumptions to make for McMenno's account is more than the number of assumptions made for what I stated in terms of my vote (Occam's Razor) is beyond ridiculous;

it's scum behavior.

And I swear, if there were a lyncher in this game, it would DEFINITELY be McMenno with a win condition to try to lynch me; this isn't the first post of McMenno's that is outrageous and ridiculous with the sole intent of getting me lynched WITHOUT proper evidence or even effort to prove such.

It's obvious to me this is scum McMenno trying to get a lynch he believes to be easy to pull off.

VOTE: McMenno

Quoting this for the new page....

[Ircher]

I've let go of an ircher scumread before, won't happen again

also first

What does this have to do WITH ANYTHING? How many non-marathon games have I played against you as scum, McMenno? Link them too. (I'm pretty sure the answer is zero, maybe one as a third party.) And, regardless, again,

what does past events in other games have to do with this game especially given the number of posts I made at the time?

I've let go of an ircher scumread before, won't happen again

also first

Oh cool, tell me.

How did he fool you before and what reminds you of that time?

I scumread him

then I did not

then someone sarcastically asked me to recount these events

the end

Here's McMenno evading a perfectly reasonable AND NOT SARCASTIC question with a non-answer. Answer the question.

732 pings me most. just feels weird considering he's never once talked about Ircher before this.

ircher started posting between that post and the last post I made at the time

And still, how does this justify your earlier two posts?

VOTE: McMenno

why did you piggyback off of cephrir's vote instead of voting redcoyote or something_smart, which I'm sure could have a wagon built on them?

Correlation does not imply causation; voting McMenno after Cephrir does not necessarily mean that Cephrir's vote caused me to vote McMenno.

I am pretty sure I did not ask your reasons

and why are you still in an rvs mindset

Definition of Confirmation Bias: Ignoring everything your opponent states under the argument it's either something scum say or you didn't ask for it. If you accuse me of sheeping Ceohrir's vote, then shouldn't I at least be given a chance to defend myself? (Aka, recount my side of the story?) It's "Innocent until proven guilty", not the other way around. And, I gave at least 1 reason for voting you that didn't have to do with RVS. (You can look it up yourselves.)

In post 1464, McMenno wrote:

In post 1456, Ircher wrote:
VOTE: McMenno


why did you piggyback off of cephrir's vote instead of voting redcoyote or something_smart, which I'm sure could have a wagon built on them?



And you concluded it was a piggyback vote how?

wanted to address this in particular, you see he votes me immediately after cephrir does without any commentary then later tries to play it off as an rvs-y vote instead of you know... "yeah I was scumreading you and saw cephrir's vote as an opportunity to start a wagon on you"

and could you please be consistent? your posts sound like they're made by different players

oh and there's a difference between "scummy" (whatever that means) and "scum"

Misrep, Correlation does not imply Causation, the anti-thesis of Occam's Razor (apparently, giving reasons to support a previous vote requires more assumptions than assuming the player is trying to cover up the fact that they are "sheeping"). And I basically explained "scummy != scum", but apparently, that's also something McMenno uses against me despite the number of times I've stated it as town. If you don't understand something, you ASK; you don't sarcastically DISREGARD IT.

[Ircher]

[basically a scumclaim]

I mean.
I could say "nuke this shit".

But what I really want is for us to just lynch Ircher.

I'm on UT because the wagon's larger.
(I also don't really support the Vaxkiller wagon right now.)

How is it a scumclaim?

"Innocent until proven guilty" and you have yet to explain with more than one sentence why I'm scum or why a certain post is a scum claim.

[Ircher]

I want the explanation; I'm tired of people being "That's scum" without even attempting to explain/show how/why that person is scum.

[Ircher]

@ircher I guess you've wiped marvel dual universe upick from your mind already

McMenno has so far done nothing constructive AT ALL this game imo. Why do you think he's town?

It's too early to tell for sure, actually. He's not town.
But the reason he's not scum is experience.

Have you

played

with McMenno before?

I have.
Tell me, what's the difference between here, here, here, here, here, here, here, and here.

Hint: 2 games scum, 6 games town. Which are which?

His posts aren't identical as both alignments, sure.
But they're pretty damn similar.

mastin are you twon

Ok, does my play here resemble my play there and in what way(s)?

[Ircher]

McMenno has so far done nothing constructive AT ALL this game imo. Why do you think he's town?

It's too early to tell for sure, actually. He's not town.
But the reason he's not scum is experience.

Have you

played

with McMenno before?

I have.
Tell me, what's the difference between here, here, here, here, here, here, here, and here.

Hint: 2 games scum, 6 games town. Which are which?

His posts aren't identical as both alignments, sure.
But they're pretty damn similar.

Fair enough.

[Ircher]

Can this day end yet?

[Ircher]

I've been a bit busy lately and may or may not get back to this thread until Friday.

[Ircher]

VOTE: UT

Not Smart; we can sort him later.
McMenno has zero traction.
Mastina is town.

So that leaves UT.

[Ircher]

his list of horseshit grows exponentially as he scrambles to save SS

If you look closely enough you'll see that Something Special isn't even opportunistically voting for you, or a big wagon.

If you really think as scum he wouldn't be trying harder to save his skin (*cough* like some other people) why in hell would you think a scum buddy would be trying this hard to save him like you're claiming I'm doing?

Counterargument = he's voting a vanity wagon that on one will join.

But still, how is that necessarily a bad thing?

[Ircher]

Scared scum hiding early votes on players who will never actual become a lynch target, so as to avoid having to push mislynches? Additionally it can seem like the scum is "actually scumhunting" by avoiding "easy targets" Seems pretty obvious to me why that would be bad....

True, but what about Devil's Advocate: what if they truly feel that that player is scum DESPITE oublic concensus? How is that wrong?

[Ircher]

Seems fabricated imo... Why would scum post such nonsense versus posting nothing at all?

[Ircher]

The mod tells them what messages were leaked? Now I don't understand......

[Ircher]

Vax, are you hammering?

[Ircher]

Well, I though SoyreX voted UT, apparently, it was an SS......

[Ircher]

I wonder how it is possible that you can manage to comment on the vote count (which contributes to the apathy about this game and also to making you look more disconnected from this game which is currently aiding in generating town reads on you), when you so clearly did not even read the vote count?

I mean, you might be able to explain not seeing my vote on Mastin by saying "oh it's a smaller wagon I didn't notice" but given you voted mastin in the very same post.... I'm not entirely certain that holds any water.

Like I literally glanced at the numbers. If I have to summarize how depressed I am in general it's a 9.5, and this game adds about 3.5 to that. On a 1-10 scale. It at least beats the other game I was in, because I don't want to punch anyone in the face yet, but it's a whole lot of not much. So yeah, I thought you were voting SS or something.

LLD as an unbiased source I can tell you mastin has done almost nothing scummy this game.

Some anti town stuff? Sure. Some trolling? Sure. But scum motivated posts? I see almost nothing.

But are you a good source?

I mean an unbiased source could mean anything. If I programmed a computer to randomly spit out headlines it would be unbiased. Would it be good? No. Mastina is scum.

Counter: There is no such thing as true "randombess" on a computer (aside from entropy....)

[Ircher]

I can't get over 2569 though. lmao.

"Reck put his social life on the line for us! UT is so scum that he'd unfriend Reck!"

That is so laughably bad, goodness gracious.

I agree.

[Ircher]

I'm really waiting for this day to end.....

[Ircher]

Why would someone counterclaim without the role? That makes zero sense.

[Ircher]

Nvm, I get it now.

[Ircher]

I've already mentioned I don't care how people read me.

That being said, I have ~super secret reasons~ for wanting to be investigated, that are worth people like you being paranoid about me being an SK over.

Reveal your reasons.

[Ircher]

Lambdelta is starting to look suspicious...

FoS Lamb

Pretty sure Lamb is the Terrorist by the way she's acting, but not definite....

[Ircher]

Thought exercise:

Given that cop works how it does, what are the motivations for a terrorist to ask to be investigated?

Especially when asking to be investigated in an inherently odd thing to do that will always draw attention?

That's no thought exercise -- people already explained why a Terrorist wants to be investigated: a "Not Mafia" result does not implicate them and may help them survive longer. We aren't Terrorist hunting right now; we're scumhunting right now, as in main faction mafia. You just one to slither your way to endgame on a free pass, and it isn't gonna escape our notice, so you can stop trying.

HoS Lady Lambdelta

[Ircher]

Thought exercise:

Given that cop works how it does, what are the motivations for a terrorist to ask to be investigated?

Especially when asking to be investigated in an inherently odd thing to do that will always draw attention?

That's no thought exercise -- people already explained why a Terrorist wants to be investigated: a "Not Mafia" result does not implicate them and may help them survive longer. We aren't Terrorist hunting right now; we're scumhunting right now, as in main faction mafia. You just one to slither your way to endgame on a free pass, and it isn't gonna escape our notice, so you can stop trying.

HoS Lady Lambdelta

Except it's

Prima Facie [/b] That a not mafia result doesn't exonerate someone from being a terrorist. So arguing that this is a reason why they'd ask for that is dumb.

Like "saying that allow you to slink into late game" is hilarious GIVEN WHO I AM.

Again, WE ARE HUNTING MAFIA FIRST.

A "not mafia" result on you would pseudo-clear you UNTIL all the mafia are lynched, so again, I don't see your point.

[Ircher]

VOTE: Untrod

Hammered

[Ircher]

Sigh this game will be very annoying purely because some people are refusing to read the game.

It's obnoxious to have >60 pages to read... I've been pushing reading this thread to the side....

[Ircher]

The ONLY interesting things that have been said were the last 2 messages received:

Pretty sure it would be a lot more helpful if you start putting the timestamps you're receiving them from the mod.

Isn't that against the rules?

[Ircher]

So, I'm guessing that pseudo-confirms Guy as not-mafia? Pretty bad bus otherwise imo since there was a lot of resistance to the lynch prior to the counterclaim.

[Ircher]

Skimming for now, but I am having a hard time buying that Ser Arthur Dayne would try to save Something_Smart that hard when it would've been easier to bus the guy.

That mastina wagon was shit, however.

Or would they? I mean, given the circumstances, it's definitely plausible & I wouldn't nonchalantly discredit anything.

[Ircher]

I feel really stupid saying this, but mastina's out of my townreads with S_S being scum :/

Not to worry, I have a foolproof method of proving I am town, and that is...my activity! Because, you see...I did not log into mastina at all between the time of the lynch and the time of day start! And clearly, that means there is no POSSIBLE way I am scum.

Clearly. Because surely not logging onto mastina is proof that I could in no way whatsoever be scum!

Just no.

[Ircher]

I investigated Fate. He was not with Russians. Unfortunately, we all know that already.

When GiF flips scum with the cop, I am going to LORD this over you.
This is such a damn scumclaim of an investigation it's not even funny.

But oh well.

His time will come.

I saw that and it pinged, but there's no real evidence to suggest it was more than just random chance right now.

[Ircher]

Fyi, I liked Magna's case on Ser Arthur.

VOTE: Arthur

[Ircher]

And personally, three of my strongest suspects right now are GiF, Zito, and RC.

How would these three people embody the trolling mentality you just described? RedCoyote, specifically.

The thing about the scumteam, from what we know of the leaks, is that there are two halves to them:
A trolling half.
And a code half.

The scumteam needs members who belong to BOTH halves.

GiF and RC belong to the code half: SOMEONE on the scumteam needed to have invented the code. And from what we have seen of the code, GiF and RC are likely candidates for having developed it.

The scumteam also needs to have members who are trolls.

This REEKS of being Zito's brand of trolling, if you know facts about Zito's personality. Look at his posting in speakeasy in particular and you'll get a fairly decent idea of what I mean. Zito thrives on this sort of thing, so he fits perfectly.

Ircher isn't quite as clean a fit, but I can ALSO see this trolling as his doing, which is why he is a candidate.

There's a reason I'm saying to focus on those four.

My apologies, but I don't troll, esp. not that way.

[Ircher]

Who should we nuke?

Pedit: Nahdia, no it won't.

[Ircher]

Also, didnt scum have a kill too? Whered it go?

[Ircher]

I think perhaps the better question is who NOT to nuke....

I see Accountant, Magna, Cheetory, Mastina, and Guy as likely town. (Granted, I haven't followed the thread well.)

[Ircher]

Hint: because he's scum.

Vehemently disagree. Sure, I'd love to have dead Ircher just so he wouldn't need to catch up on 60+ pages of game, but he's not scum.

The catchup prob. isnt happening tbh.

[Ircher]

McMenno could still die..

VOTE: McMenno

Pedit: Not Russian on Hiplop he said

[Ircher]

HEY MASTINA I TRUMPED YOUR SHITTY PLAN WITH MY EXCELLENT PLAN

WANNA KNOW WHAT THAT WAS?

??????????

[Ircher]

We could use mastina stilll... Imo, mastina should live.

[Ircher]

We can add the lolhammer to McMenno's transgressions this game... Anyone wish to join the McMenno wagon/nuke him?

Pedit: GreyIce, the caps are obnoxious; use your inside-voice.

[Ircher]

Actually I think Menno is town.

Can I ask why?

[Ircher]

mastina, if you scumread me so much AND feel that a nuke would be wasted on me, why ARENT you voting me?

[Ircher]

I refuse to be

assimilated

into the all caps club. From now on, I pledge to use the bold tag instead of caps for emphasis.

[Ircher]

Oh, say can you see
By the Dawn's early light.
What so proudly we held
At the twilights last gleaming...

[Ircher]

It was 2, but I believe McMenno quickhammered.

[Ircher]

Ah yes and the important part.

VOTE: SAD

VOTE: SAD

[Ircher]

I will not be assimilated.

[Ircher]

I've seen scum McMenno and town McMenno. While it's very difficult to tell, I feel this is scum McMenno whose playing.

Main thing that stands out is he's not trying at all... Like, he always trolls and always does next to nothing, but this game, he coasting more than usual and providing even less, and I think that could be indicative of scum McMenno.

So join me in this righteous wagon.

(Fyi Mastina: McMenno quickhammered within a minute, not much one could have done)

[Ircher]

p-edit i can be down with an ep murder at some point

Ircher is someone

we almost assuredly can't nuke,

whereas Errant we probably can.

Why?

Ircher posted his draft picks.

All three of the anti-nuke powers were on it, and not low, either. Strategic Missile Defense = Ircher can intercept the missile. Fallout shelter = Ircher survives. Covert Ops Team = he sabotaged a nuke.

All three were his top choices.

We know that all powers are at play because I didn't get any.
So that means he got one.

Ergo, we can't nuke him.
We CAN lynch him.

At best he can stop 1 nuke.

Role claiming, are you? Why?

[Ircher]

Anyway, my role is pretty obvious if people have payed attention to what I have said concerning that....

Pedit: You said I could stop 1 nuke at best.... That's a role claim.

[Ircher]

Fallout shelter stops all nukes unless I'm mistaken.

[Ircher]

@GreyICE -- Not role-fishing, just clarifying what Lamb suggested.... I see now....

Pedit: ... Unimpressive, you feel non-existent.

[Ircher]

That was @Errant fyi

[Ircher]

Fyi Mastina, as I stated in the signup thread, I was voting no to Total War regardless of my alignment.

[Ircher]

VOTE: Ircher

[Ircher]

VOTE: McMenno

[Ircher]

And that alas presents a problem w/ the game is setup. A coordination problem, that is.

[Ircher]

Simply guaging how people would react. What were you expecting, there was only 3 votes on me; I was in no danger of being lynched.

[Ircher]

Honestly, I kind of want to vote Ircher, because self voting is an "my best defense is I might as well die"

Even if this is a setup where you might as well give up if everyone wants you to die because sometime soon the nukes will come.

Honestly, I cannot believe you thought that was a defensive move.

[Ircher]

Simply guaging how people would react. What were you expecting, there was only 3 votes on me; I was in no danger of being lynched.

And what did you get out of it?

Not much.

Your reaction was fine; you saw something odd and pressed it.

GreyICE's response kinda pinged me cuz if he considered the current wagon formation, I was nowhere near to being lynched and the considering only mastina is hard-pushing me, it feels out of place to call it a defensive move/me giving up. Not conclusive though, but still.....

[Ircher]

Vaxkiller, please stop being useless and do something besides post the eavesdrops.

[Ircher]

Ok, that may be a misrep.... Vaxkiller, please be a bit more useful by posting more than just the contents of eavesdrops.

[Ircher]

Like kelly for SK

So Cheet confirmed no Russian?

Hrm.... I could see that.

[Ircher]

Oh my god she talked to me. I mean actually talked to me. Not about me, and not using completely moonbeams meta conspiracies, but actually engaged me in conversation. Today truly is a holy day. Strike up the band, let the confetti fly, someone find me a giant oversized novelty key, we must properly celebrate this historic event. Where's the poet laureate, only the best to commemorate this most awesome of occurances. And all it took was a fucking nuke. Hallelujah.

I am the sub because I'm the best and Andrius is the best and together we form Best Squared. I don't know what order he's going to remove people from the list so I can't guarantee anything there.

...Isn't that the point of subs... To be a

hidden

nuker?

[Ircher]

reminder that someone needs to kill mastin before that walking train wreck gets anywhere near lylo

Reminder that that is a horrible idea.

[Ircher]

why oh why must mastina die

Do you

really

want a slot that's playing that badly to stay in the game?

Bafly?

I'd argue mastinas play is probably better than at least a third if not half or more of the playerlist.

[Ircher]

but gif targeted fate and hiplop targeted no one

well that's completely fucking useless.

why'd you target the guy who claimed espionage?

im sorry.
i really am genuinely sorry.
i dont have an explanation other than yeah ive been disconnected from this game because it just sort of snowballed out of my control in the early game, and now its difficult to get it back to a place where i fully grasp things that are happening. i will continue to argue that that is not relevant to my alignment at all, but its probably futile now.
im just a burden to this town anyway whatever

Yea/Nea: Let Errant live?

[Ircher]

i suppose that's an accurate interpretation of the data, yes

can whoever has the SMD please intercept UT's nuke now

Wait, who fired the sub at Reck? Do we know?

[Ircher]

"I have the ACC I have the ACC I have the ACC"

and I'm supposed to believe you because...?

#1 no counterclaims
#2 i targeted LLD so we can fucking prove it easily by either having her confirm her night action failed or have her try launching a nuke and it will fail

like this isn't hard

if im claiming ACC and lying then someone would counterclaim me first off, but second off, we have a VERY EASY WAY TO PROVE I HAVE IT

I can do neither of those things. I don't have a night action and I don't have a nuke.

So passive ability. Noted.

[Ircher]

I tell you what sugartits, if the 3-man list for that sub shot doesn't include me I'll call off the nuke

otherwise we're going to join each other in the great radioactive waste in the sky

final answer though

Theres a time limit on recalls. 24 hrs I believe.

[Ircher]

UT has like 90 minutes to cancel because I'm pretty confident this is town reck and even if its sk reck, reck's roleclaim forces him to use his power for the good of the town or face the noose.

[Ircher]

VOTE: Lady Lambdelta

We have a semi-guilty here.

[Ircher]

1 in 3 is a better chance than anything else.

[Ircher]

@Untrod, yeah, you cannot wait for the sub choices to narrow. That gives a very small 4h window and that just isn't right.

Recall the nuke.

Pedit: True... Keeping you alive means that GIF can confirm you.

If GIF's RBed, we can lynch Reck.
If GIF dies, we lynch whoever claims Battleship.

One problem though: If the SK and mafia both decide to kill GIF.

UNVOTE:

Pedit2: I did in like the first 30 pages. Its a 112 pages w/ practically very little content that isn't worth reading. So in a way, yes, but as the saying goes, "Work smarter, not harder". (Why read the entire thread yourself when you can let other people do so and analyze their cases, claims, etc?)

[Ircher]

And Nahdia, no need to be so accusatory.

[Ircher]

@UT -- Recall the nuke already. There is evidence beyond any shadow of a doubt that Reck is town.

[Ircher]

Considering GiF has gotten checks both nights and I'm holding Counterintel, I think RECK is likely town if he's unCC'd.

Amendment: Town excluding sone very unlikely scenarios.

[Ircher]

But that relies on chance, and theres no guarantee that a person with the ability to stop the nuke would, for instance, be able to be online at that time.

[Ircher]

uhhhh do you think I'm going to roll a d6 every hour to make an int check to see if I remember? jesus christ

No, but the mod is rolling a 5d100 presumably to determine who crossed off the sub list. There's no guarantee you'll be crossed off.

[Ircher]

Intercept: Untrod Tripod

I'm not leaving this to chance; sorry.

[Ircher]

You dont need your stupid alarm anymore.

[Ircher]

wait so I'm not dead?

No, Reck isn't dead.

[Ircher]

lol

you are so fucking stupid dude

Perhaps not the best choice, but it's fairly safe choice and I'm unlikely to find a better interception anyway.

With that being said, I fully expect a nuke to be heading my way anytime now.

[Ircher]

Why would I want to save Zito?

[Ircher]

I mean sure, Zito could be town and I dont have a reason to necessarily scumread Zito, but I have no reason to townread him either. Plus, I'm trusting mastina is right about her target; I townread mastina.

Saving Zito makes little sense from my perspective.

Pedit: I forget about that.... Nonetheless, I think the Roleblocker has more utility for town, but we could argue all day on that.

[Ircher]

@Mastin -- Do you approve/disapprove of keeping Reck, the claimed RBer, alive?

Pedit: Lots of rules, lots to remember.

[Ircher]

I think Zito claimed he was nuking RedCoyote w/ his sub fyi.

[Ircher]

You guys are dumb and aren't reading.

We really are! Seriously, I can have a terrible memory when reading stuff.

[Ircher]

VOTE: McMenno

No one's nuking this slot right now, and I feel there's a decent chance of scum here. Disclaimer: I'm a terrible scumhunter.

[Ircher]

I'd argue mastinas play is probably better than at least a third if not half or more of the playerlist.

Reminder: I'm voting you.

Also, SpyreX: from what I gather you claim to own the counterstrike team and sabotaged me.
I made it clear I was nuking LLD, who has...the fallout shelter. Which you yourself acknowledge.

Explain.
If you knew I was planning on nuking the person

immune to being nuked

, tell me.
Why on EARTH did you "waste" the sabotage on me?

(I mean granted this is a case where I wouldn't too terribly mind given that Zito's town, butstill.)

Good players can be wrong. Although, you could step aside from your tunnel for more than a day.

[Ircher]

OH YEAH vaxkiller is leaking shit. hrmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm.

i think that makes vax town if he went for the eavesdropper. because duh, why would scum be encrypting shit in that case

i suppose it could be an elaborate rouse but that's a problem for future reck to decide

for now remove vaxkiller from my list

i feel pretty confident we'd hit scum among: SpyreX, Nahdia, McMenno, and GreyICE. (given current flips. if any other flips are scum then hoooo boy RIP russian scum team)

there's 3 scum left yeah?

Its a pretty towncred move to make, esp. when it can make vax look busy. Cuz thats ALL that Vax has been doing since the claim, so that carries some suspicion w/ it.

[Ircher]

like what if mastin lied about her bid placements in order to throw the game into chaos making us think there are more power roles out there than we thought

Mastin had a confirmed nuke launch. So she wasn't lying about losing the draft.

[Ircher]

[Day 3, DEFCON 1 - Game Event]

...

[NORAD SYSTEM] ALERT. ALERT. NUCLEAR LAUNCH DETECTED.
[NORAD SYSTEM] Attempting to locate launch site...
[NORAD SYSTEM] Missile unable to be tracked...
[NORAD SYSTEM] Analyzing flight trajectory…
[NORAD SYSTEM]

ERROR: MULTIPLE TARGETS DETECTED: GreyICE, hiplop, Untrod Tripod, Papa Zito, Nukebringer

[NORAD SYSTEM] Estimating time until impact...
[NORAD SYSTEM] Warhead will detonate in (expired on 2016-12-05 12:44:46)

[NORAD SYSTEM] Reanalyzing flight trajectory…
[NORAD SYSTEM]

ERROR: MULTIPLE TARGETS DETECTED: GreyICE, Papa Zito, Nukebringer

[NORAD SYSTEM] Estimating time until impact...
[NORAD SYSTEM] Warhead will detonate in (expired on 2016-12-05 12:44:46)

RECALL NUKE

OH SHIT I CAN'T BELIEVE I MADE IT IN TIME

GOOD THING THOSE DICE WERE KIND TO ME EH

See, but I would've cut it REALLY CLOSE had the dice not been favorible. Literally 6 minutes until it was beyond interception.

[Ircher]

*20 minutes.

[Ircher]

Umm.... I could've, true. But I already explained my reasons for today. If I'm still alive tomorrow, then yeah, I can use it for that.

[Ircher]

(WHY????)

[Ircher]

Oh, and I think the mod just confirmed UT as not SK.

[Ircher]

Votecount

Ircher [4] - McMenno, mastina, Accountant, RedCoyote
mastina [4] - Lady Lambdadelta, Untrod Tripod, SpyreX, xRECKONERx
McMenno [3] - Ircher, Cephrir, Nukebringer
Errantparabola [2] - GreyICE, GuyInFreezer
Accountant [1] - Papa Zito
hiplop [1] - MagnaofIllusion


Not Voting [5] - hiplop, Cheetory6, Errantparabola, Vaxkiller, Nahdia

With 20 alive it takes 11 to lynch.

Ircher is V/LA until 12/5.
Magna is V/LA until Monday.

It is now DEFCON 1. Day 3 will last until 12/16/2016 at 21:00 hours PST.


Projected Impact Times:
UT has recalled his nuke in time, so both his and the Interception are cancelled.

Papa Zito: (expired on 2016-12-04 20:37:02)
Unknown: (expired on 2016-12-04 23:58:53)
Errantparabola: (expired on 2016-12-05 03:28:31)
Unknown: #2 (expired on 2016-12-05 12:44:46)
Nukebringer: (expired on 2016-12-05 15:51:44)

Since the interception got canceled, UT cannot have the submarine.

[Ircher]

Again, the SK gets two picks.

[Ircher]

He technically could have the sub and the nuke....

Actually, that's interesting:

@Mod --> Theiretically speaking, if the SK has both the sub and the missile silo and has shot both (and both can still be intercepted), which nuke(s) will be interceoted by the strategic missile defense if they target the correct person? What if one of the nukes gets recalled? What happens?

[Ircher]

VLA until the end of the game

GreyICE at the time the serial killer's submarine nuke was launched, both Firebringer and Reck had nukes heading their way.

That means you're going to be killed by the serial killer in 17 hours.

I mean.
If you choose not to give any content in that time.

Your prerogative.

But you're a walking deadman right now, so.

If you have any interest of giving last thoughts.
Now's the time to give them.
You won't have a chance later.

But that reading comprehension of this game! Not conclusive imo.

[Ircher]

Oh wait you've got a nuke headed your way. Nothing to say then, adios

Does anyone have time to discuss our lord and savior McMenno Is Scum?

I posted a case on him earlier this game and whether or not you felt it was a good case, my opinion there has not really changed since.

[Ircher]

Because from Menno's attitude and the whole point of the game encouraging people to nuke each other based on their own reads rather than having to convince the entire town, recalling a nuke based off "popular demand" - esp. when he personally seems reluctant to recall it - seems scummy as fuck

He wanted to switch nuke targets I believe, but still sketchy imo.