DEFCON Mafia 4.0 - СЛАВА РОССИИ МАТЕРИ

[MagnaofIllusion]

Vote: For Total War!

The only correct choice ...

[MagnaofIllusion]

Ok dropping some thoughts –

On the Draft – if you want anything other than a Nuke then think very carefully about your top choice – if you don’t get your first choice then it is very likely you will get a Nuke. So don’t bother putting a high priority item like Air Base or Sub anywhere but first position on your list.

RedCoyote absolutely needs Nukes / lynched on the soon side of sooner or later. Town RC would not be feeling out the thread to see if there is any support at all for not voting Total War. 118 is basically asking “Town is it ok if do this thing?”

If he was Town he’d have put on his American Denim and voted against it like Reck did.

--

It occurs to me that I'm thinking troops re-happen every night, they do right?

Nope.com.

--

Along those lines I’d like to offer a few dissenting opinions on Troop Analysis from the Red Communist. Firstly all Town players need to consider the scum potential upside if they are looking at a Troop. Sub is probably the most abusable by scum.

Secondly any Town player who takes Counter-Intelligence must claim it in their first post after the Draft. Failure to do so should be considered the equivalent to waving the hammer and sickle in public while shouting praise to Mother Russia.

Troop options for dummies:

Submarine: Vig. (Usefulness for the town: 7/10)
Fallout Shelter: Unlimited Bulletproof for nukes only. (Usefulness for the town: 2/10)

Eavesdrop: Sometimes hear scum night talk (Usefuleness for the town: 6/10)

Fail Safe: PGO. (Usefulness for the town: 2/10)

Disagree with most of these assessments.

Sub is 10/10 for Town as it keeps it out of the dirty red paws of the Communists. The strength Town has in this set-up regarding Nukes is the public nature of pressing the button. It holds YOLO Nukers accountable with rope.

If the Communists haven’t figured out how to completely make Eavesdrop useless then they aren’t going to last long anyway. Consider it a 1.5 / 10 at best for Town.

Fail Safe’s ability to Vengekill a Stealth Bomber kill makes it at least a 4/10 for Town.

In other words, whoever gets the "best" power should be given a second look.

Well given that the Terrorist has their normal draft result to cover for the “best power” they choose I’m wondering how you expect to this theory to work exactly …


--

Like, what's to stop town from just powerlynching through the playerlist with nukes?
Time limitations?

Maybe because it paints a picture for scum where to aim for important Troops?

[MagnaofIllusion]

also if we're doing the planning roles thing, give me the eavesdrop.

Don't tell me you are scum again LLD. It will make me sad ...

[MagnaofIllusion]

Is being tentative something you've seen specifically from scumRC?

I'd have to dig up old games from 4 to 5 years ago to be sure since I haven't seen him as scum since my return. I do not TownRC is stubborn and doesn't much care about popular opinion. Do you disagree with that assessment?

[MagnaofIllusion]

Nah, dude. I just want to redeem myself from last time.

Then why are you wanting the Eavesdrop and not Righteous Nuclear Power?

[MagnaofIllusion]

I guess I'm kneejerking partially because I feel indirectly attacked and also feel wary of the idea of knocking out big voices earlygame >.>

I honestly think it would be easier to make a list of "Not Big Voices" in the playerlist myself. And I know you didn't hang around Kids Characters long but Imperium / Nacho was an example of a scum "Big Voice" that took a Vig shot to take down that game.

[MagnaofIllusion]

If you'll recall, I had a nuke last time.

No I don't recall. I thought you took Eavesdrop.

Grumble grumble making me look way back to find that info ...

[MagnaofIllusion]

And I would like Magna to respond to the point RC made that Magna was town and against Total War last game and clearly for it this game; that was an interesting catch which warrants explanation.

So you think that in a game from over 5 years ago the only possibility of why I would change my stance is Alignment indicative?

Very curious to see your response. Also - have you read Defcon 3.0?

[MagnaofIllusion]

Untrod you missed a

Vote: mastina

or two I think.

[MagnaofIllusion]

Hey I now have a Nuke target ... good times ...

Nothing says "Kill it with Radioactive Fire" than lame political jokes ...

[MagnaofIllusion]

I would like to see Fate’s reaction (if any) to his SDC buddy submarining (ha, I went there) the Total War movement.

318 – Good to know Ser Arthur and Cheet aren’t scum together.

GuyInFreezer can be Town. As can Papa Zito.

And Something Smart is probably the first to eat rope. 405 has all the hallmarks of scum posting – pointless “For” vote that means nothing, refusing to commit to a read on Reck who called him solid Town for bad reasons, and a list of “scummy” people which makes no sense. Also fence-sitting on three players which I think I probably where his Communist partner are. Also 407 is laughable as reasons to scum read GIF (OMGUS and the ever dreaded “forced” which is the New Hotness Buzzword for the Commies).

--

can't argue with that.

Why would you nuke me spyrex?

The more cogent question is – why wouldn’t someone want to Nuke you?

--

because scum don't make that post

Oh dear god … really you think this?

[MagnaofIllusion]

@Reck: Gimme my dayvig I have needs man

He can't. The votes for Total War are irrevocable per Andy.

[MagnaofIllusion]

@PZ -

It is now Day 1, DEFCON 5. This phase will last 72 hours. Your vote FOR or AGAINST Total War serves as your confirmation. You may not change your decision - once your vote is cast, you are locked in and confirmed.

[MagnaofIllusion]

VoteCount

FOR TOTAL WAR [16] - SpyreX, MagnaofIllusion, Untrod Tripod, Nukebringer, McMenno, Papa Zito, Spiffeh, GuyInFreezer, Errantparabola, Nahdia, Fate, mastina, hiplop, Accountant, Ser Arthur Dayne, Something_Smart
AGAINST TOTAL WAR [1] - xRECKONERx

Not Voting [7] - Everyone Else


Countdown to the End of DEFCON 5: 2 days, 5 hours, 40 minutes

Since we will not be going to Total War, we will move to DEFCON 4 when everyone has arrived or at the above deadline

.

So I've highlighted the part which shows that people no longer need to vote simply show up to move to Defcon 4. Which shows that SS's "For" vote was pointless since he had already posted.

So Something Smart - are you not reading fully?

[MagnaofIllusion]

I've always been bad at finding scum just by reading posts and looking for what sticks out, so I might try a different approach and see if it works better for me.

Are you gonna be performing voodoo to figure out scum or???

I'm honestly up for policy lynching you off those three posts alone b/c it seems like you're gonna be utterly useless this game.

Why is Ser going after low lying fruit?

Yes a little sarcasm while phone posting to say I'll be catching up tomorrow ...

[MagnaofIllusion]

if you put in 1 troop and dont get it, silo.
If you put in greater than 1 troop and dont get it, vanilla?

No Spyrex you should know this - anyone who doesn't get a troop gets a Silo.

[MagnaofIllusion]

So trying to keep this as manageable as possible ..

Ser Arthur (or SAD as I will refer to him from here on out this game) will remain as scum-read for me. I’ve seen the idea floated that he’s playing too loud and obnoxious to be scum. With this playerlist I don’t see playing in that manner as a downside. It explains away long term why he isn’t getting Stealth Bombed or Terroristed. The inherent WIFOM doesn’t scare me off because as Town the question still remains – what’s the motive for playing in a way likely to get you killed early (same applies to mastina, BTW)? I also think the dichotomy between him strongly defending some “low hanging fruit” while attacking others feeds into my scum read on the slot.

Someone check in with Hell to see if it has frozen over … Cephir and I had the exact same thought about 482. After Kids Characters Mafia I never expected that would happen this game especially this early.

Spyrex can be Town also …

@LLD

– why did you address hiplop’s “I want to nuke MoI” with chastisement of him instead of asking him why?

@Accountant

– re 656 remind me if I am wrong but I don’t recall you objecting to all the other policy Nuke statements (and there are tons of them). Why specifically PZ on Nukebringer as opposed to his mastina Policy nuke call? Why not any others that have been made?

--

I would love words on this.

Pretty easy to do. See 369. GIF is thinking exactly what I was thinking there. This is enough early on to have me give them a provisional Town read since their mindset is similar to mine.

My question to you is – why not ask about my Naked Zito Townread as well?

--

I could also see scum!GIF

He's around enough to make a few fringe comments and have somewhat of a presence but he's not making any "waves" and seems to be escaping everyone's radars

which is a sweet spot I'd expect scum to seek out given the nature of this game

Quick question Spiff – how is that the “scum hiding sweet spot” if you immediately assess someone meeting that profile as scum before votes can even fly?

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This is a scum action... why? "Discussion tabled" means I am going to discuss him later.

Sure it can mean that. For certain my scum read on you isn’t “Bet the game on it” level of confidence. Fact remains the way you specifically hedge from making any sort of assessment at all struck me as suspect on initial read.

ok now he's scumreading me because my pregame reads are not up to par with his standards

Nope. What is off about them is, as you later clarify, are all vague “gut” reads that have nothing other than “I don’t like it” about them. Given that my reads don’t line up with yours and your reasoning is “gut” the first place my mind goes is scum faking reads.

Way to beg the question. The simpler explanation for those reads is that I was genuinely conflicted, and you're assuming that I'm scum in trying to prove that I'm scum.

Nope. I’m pointing out that out for future analysis if you ever flip scum. Kind of absurd for you to claim I’m using that to “prove” you are scum.

--

There's absolutely no need to reserve yourself when you vote for Total War given that it requires unanimity. There's every reason to do so when you intend to be a detractor

Ok. What do you think of Reck’s decision to just vote No War without discussion then?

I don't understand.

You said the players who get the “best” roles should receive extra scrutiny as possible Terrorist. But the Terrorist themselves go through the process of drafting also. And can easily decide to go for a Silo as a means to hide their Terrorist choice. So I’m asking how you think the extra scrutiny should be addressed.

You said it, not me. For what it's worth, as scum I wouldn't care about Total War, and I certainly wouldn't be willing to fight the tide.

So is your stance then that because you took a careful approach you are obv Town?

[Town]-----Cheet--Nahdia-GiF---Grey---MoI-Nukebringer-Ceph-Spiff--PZ--Reck-Ircher--hiplop-Fate-Spy[∙]-LLD-Accountant-Dayne--mastina--Errant--McMenno----SS------------[Scum]

Toog hasn't posted yet.

Please confirm where your Null read band starts by playername please.

[MagnaofIllusion]

Please explain which low hanging fruit I have gone after.

Ircher. Duh. I pointed it out when you did it.

[MagnaofIllusion]

I do like how SAD gets his dander up when called out as scum … it’s cute.

MoI your whole interaction with Something Special is really

really

really

fucking forced.

This is so empty of anything meaningful it makes my sides hurt when I laugh. First off as previously discussed “forced” is pure buzzwording with no meaning at all. And adding repititions of “really” doesn’t improve the empty vacuum of this post.

Wtf is this. He made assessments about a lot more players. The fact he doesn't make it about one is bad????

Like he could have just not mentioned Reck at all if he was scum and ~scared~ of giving a read on him.

When the one is the player who specifically Town read him for whack-a-mole reasons it is worthy of an early scum read. Try to keep up with what is actually happening in thread SAD.

Am I supposed to purposely coat my posts with a level of scuminess as to try and not be killed early?

Well that’s the only non-derp explanation I can come up with for why you are posting so scummy. I mean I think it's a pretty dumb route to take regardless of your alignment but you do you ...

Like there's nothing wrong with trying to help low hanging fruit to open up to get a read on them and make them interact more with the game.

Even if you do it in an obnoxious way.

And there is everything wrong if you have a scumread on a low hanging fruit early.

Even if you're the nicest person in the world.

Lol. Ircher doesn’t need any help playing. Same with Something Smart. Neither are Vis. Maybe you are the kind of dense player who equates ability with join date (which is a hoot). But they don’t mentoring or guidance on how to play. Frankly the uber Chainsaw you are doing for SomethingSmart has I think has been good. I very much doubt you are partners.

Pro-Tip - if there is real "low hanging fruit" in this playerlist it is McMenno.

--

jesus christ the last half of page 30 almost killed me reading the amount of selfimportance dripping from mastina's posts

1. How does this surprise you about mastin?
2. You are still reading his posts?

--

@MoI: Because I don't care what his reasons are. I'm pretty sure he's town on gut and he was wasting his energy and resources on you. I wanted to refocus on him onto more productive paths.

I don’t get how you are Town-reading hiplop but ok.

--

I think this could lead you astray quite often, especially in this player list.

Meh ... it's not like this is a “Ride or Die” Town read as opposed to a “Hey, can be Town right now” read pre-game.

I could see "tonally bizarre" but I'm not sure about forced

Lisa, tone reading is make-believe like vampires, leprechauns or Eskimos …

[MagnaofIllusion]

imma nuke you

Not until day 3 because you voted against total war~.

[MagnaofIllusion]

GiF is straight town at this point

Hopefully there are some seasoned commies to nuke

Yeah I agree.

Goddammit this confused me so badly. Not cool.

So this gut scum read of yours does some quote tampering and your reaction is "Not Cool" and not "scummy"?

[MagnaofIllusion]

i go so long without reading his posts that i start to think "maybe im just being unfair" so i read them again then i have a seizure and die

Are zombies nuke proof? Because ... hey ... it might work out in your favor I guess ...

[MagnaofIllusion]

While phone skimming last Night I realized that SAD’s sig contains quotes from both Chesskid and Vezo. I’m kinda astonished that someone who reveres two of the Patron Saints of VIs is making assessments of others as such.

I don't understand why anyone should be thinking about a plan for the dayvigs or forming a bloc or anything right now (other than obv pming the mod with a choice for role/nuke - but do that in the privacy of your thoughts while watching tv or the much more superior anime).

We have two days to go without nukes. Stop the dumb lining up of events. Treat the game in a more spontaneous matter.

“Dear Americans – please do not organize together in a meaningful way it compromises me and my scum partner’s abilities to kill you.”

Spiffeh are you Town reading this?

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so basically ircher needs to eat rope because he almost certainly has bunker or failsafe or defense missiles with teh way he's been acting

Funny I haven’t gotten any PMs from Andy specifying the draft is done. Because it can’t be with Toogs being replaced and all.

So why are you assuming Ircher has certain Troops / a Missle Silo in defensive formation when he can’t possibly have it yet?

--

i swear by literally every god i know that i will do these things when in office:

1. Finish my math homework
2. Go to class
3. Read the whole game and post good shit
4. Cure cancer

It looks like the worst odds on this list were not curing cancer but posting good shit …

--

Ser Arthur Dayne could literally claim scum, in-thread, and broadcast exactly how and why he is scum and what he is doing as scum...and I wouldn't believe him. He is my strongest townread, and as far as I'm concerned if he's scum we already lost.

Thank God, Mom and Apple Pie that this is a game where one good old fashioned American Patriot with nerves of steel and the gumption to get things done can pre-empt that loss with the push of a button and Nuclear Glory for America!

--

Why am I defending someone who is ignoring shit directed at them.

Great question …

[MagnaofIllusion]

Reminder - I need to go see a couple of games and see if Fire pulls his "teehee I'm scum" as both alignments ...

[MagnaofIllusion]

You can't be this bad at mafia.

Organizing a town bloc TWO DAYS before dayvigs benefits scum. In fact, believe it or not, organization in general benefits scum. It allows scum to easily sheep better without looking suspicious, as well as allow them to play in a much more lax manner because they can get away with much more.

Also you have started reaching OMGUS territory (especially indicated by your pointing out my sig and relating it to VIs) so I'm going to start ignoring almost everything you say till a much later point in the game when you feel like starting to be relevant to the game.

I'm not sure what you think good Mafia play is, and frankly I don't really care. Fact remains Townblocks can be very useful to Town. Aren't always but the fact that you are selling that organization "in general benefits scum" is pretty ludicrous. I'd ask you what more scum can get away - specifically the details - but if you think scum having to sheep in a constrained pool of targets than with a good Town block means self-cannibalization is Pro-Scum I doubt you'd provide anything but fluffy stuff.

Especially since you seemed to understand the concept earlier in the thread ...

Accountant can we form a town bloc???

Funny how your opinion shifted on the concept of early Townblocks.

I love that you are now adding another buzzword to your lexicon ... OMGUS. If it were OMGUS that would have to mean I only suspected you after you suspected me. Instead of right after your first posts (see 308) when I called you my Nuke target. Oops. Run off to the Wiki and find another buzzword now SAD.

But speaking of your first post looking back I had forgotten this gem ...

oh hey I finally rolled town in a large
but now I have 23 slots to sort...
I'll probably just sheep people who are actually good. (Which is like, everybody. Except me. )

I'm dayvigging the shit out of you.

So much for that earlier statement about how you were "interacting" with your claimed VIs to coax more out of them. Had you not decided to white-knight the slot yet?

[MagnaofIllusion]

I know, right? Hard for SAD to keep up with what he "believes" when he is scum I guess.

[MagnaofIllusion]

Hey Cephir - what do you think of SAD?

[MagnaofIllusion]

Hmmm where did SAD run off to?

Probably the PT to discuss how he can backtrack from his "Townblock" stance that just got Mic Dropped in his face.

[MagnaofIllusion]

MoI do you have any strong reads other than SAD?

Strong Scum reads - not as signifcant.

SS I read as scum but I don't think both SS and SAD are Commie partners. Perhaps one is the stinking Terrorist but I don't see them aligned.

I still have RC on the back-burner of my radar. I expected Town him to come after me based on my initial call for his head. The fact that I might be even a weak Town read for him is a little suspect given that he thinks I "dodged" the issue of why I am Pro-Total War now and wasn't 5 years ago which implies I'm scummy with something to hide.

And I have two mostly gut scum reads that I would not be nuking at this stage so I'm not broadcasting them.

I don't really get "strong" Town reads but I'd be happy with group for Townblock that includes you, Cheet, Spyrex, and PZ.

[MagnaofIllusion]

I will nuke you the first second I will get a nuke.

Well I have not a worry about that then since you'll be roped and hung well before DEFCON 1.

I'm sure your partners will be prompt and send your Red Commie Stealth Bomber my way after your flip.

[MagnaofIllusion]

Ftr you have pushed me every game we've been together - Saw Mafia, Kingdom Hearts, and A Dance with Dragons. I no longer give a shit what you do because I'm convinced you get orgasms from purely arguing pointlessly.

And here we have a winner folks. Is this the way you talk to your scum read? Of course not. But let's dig deeper ...

Saw Mafia -

Saw Mafia

Ser Arthur Dayne, Mark, Lieutenant/Godfather, Mafia, met an unfortunate end and lost on Night 2.
MagnaofIllusion, Xavier, Drug Dealer, Town, was found dead after Night 3.

Kingdom Hearts

:

18. Ser Arthur Dayne

, replacing Armageddon

,

Tarzan

,

VT

, member of the

Town

, lynched D3.
1.

MagnaofIllusion

,

Pluto

,

Tracker

, member of the

Town

, killed N3.

A Dance with Dragons

MagnaofIllusion (Balon Swann, Vanilla Townie and a member of the

Lannister

Allia

nce

) was killed Night 3.
Dolorous Edd (

Hydra with Ser Dayne

) - (Robert Strong, 1-shot even knight Champion and a member of the

Lannister

Allia

nce

) was killed Night 3.

So in not one of the listed games was I scum. And in one of them he was scum who needed lynch.

[MagnaofIllusion]

2. I never claimed you were scum this game??? You have this ability to get a boner whenever I point out anything related to you (in this game it was the fact I pointed out you were attacking low hanging fruit), assume that you are my strongest scumread, and then devolve the game into you mindlessly attacking everything I say (or that I sig). Which is why you're useless to talk to at this point.

Oh, so when you repeatedly pointed out how "wrong" it was that I had a scum read on "Low hanging fruit" that wasn't pointing out scum behavior that was just fluff? I'm having a hard time reconciling your posting with actual scum hunting.

[MagnaofIllusion]

So SAD - why don't you clearly give us a scum read list and any Town reads you might have?

[MagnaofIllusion]

All right who didn't vote for total war????

Reck. What are you going to do about it?

[MagnaofIllusion]

Also you have started reaching OMGUS territory (especially indicated by your pointing out my sig and relating it to VIs) so I'm going to start ignoring almost everything you say till a much later point in the game when you feel like starting to be relevant to the game.

2. I never claimed you were scum this game??? You have this ability to get a boner whenever I point out anything related to you (in this game it was the fact I pointed out you were attacking low hanging fruit), assume that you are my strongest scumread, and then devolve the game into you mindlessly attacking everything I say (or that I

sig

). Which is why you're useless to talk to at this point.

Anyone else spot the inherent contradiction in these posts? Free internet cookies if you do ...

[MagnaofIllusion]

that is only true if you first assume him not to be a VI. I would suggest those summary posts are a very good indication he is, though

Ircher isn't a VI. Stop being elitist and mean Cephir.

[MagnaofIllusion]

ircher is totally a vi, my rule of thumb on reading him is if he is being scummy he is town and if he being super scummy he is scum.

Which head wrote this post? If it is Equinox I repeat - stop being elitist and mean.

If it is Firebringer you really should not be calling people VIs.

[MagnaofIllusion]

magna, ive been reading your posts and i don't like it.

The department of “Zero Fucks Given” called and wants to schedule a meeting with you at your earliest convienance.

--

I'm gonna pistol whip thennext person that says VI

[MagnaofIllusion]

MoI you are so sassy this game

Expectation of both a limited lifespan and sweet sweet Nuke-age of my scum reads independent of needing others has me feeling more carefree than usual.

[MagnaofIllusion]

VAXKILLER

I have 2 questions.

1. Did you read the setup before you /in to replace and/or before agreeing to replace in?
2. If you had to take a totally random guess how long (in pages) do you think the scum pt was when you replaced in?

Hey look completely useless questions meant to look like sorting a player but really just pointless busywork for said player.

[MagnaofIllusion]

yeah, magna is scum guys.
Normally he would be mad at me.

Zero presence of it.

Lol. So much comedy. I don't have to get frustrated with your terrible play because you can be made a glowing crater soon enough. No worries about useless Town Firebringer being carried to endgame because he's terrible or Scum Firebringer sliding by on his usual useless play.

I mean if that isn't clear to you probably get a PT with Equinox and have him help you with these obv things.

[MagnaofIllusion]

Hey Magna, don't be elitist~.

You forgot to say mean also ...

Tsk tsk ...

Although Firebringer proudly acknowledges his VI status so ...

[MagnaofIllusion]

i am the definition of vi.

[MagnaofIllusion]

MOD – I’ll be V/LA from basically now til Monday morning for my usual weekend duties.

Already got my list in so if this draft gets drug out I probably will not be missing much.

@RedCoyote

– any reason you didn’t bother to answer my questions from 767? Should I note you are “dodging” lol?

--

Maybe our nukes can wave to each other in the air as they sail towards dumbasses

AMERICA!!!!!

[MagnaofIllusion]

Have I said lately I like Papa Zito?

Well I do.

[MagnaofIllusion]

Okay.

We can lynch Vaxkiller Day1.

Thanks.

Vaxkiller flips Commie scum and I hearby label their whole exchange the most painfully awkward bus / distancing ever ...

[MagnaofIllusion]

I get it, you don't love me anymore.

I-I thought we had something special

Just because I like Papa's posting doesn't mean I dislike you LLD.

Don't be that way ...

[MagnaofIllusion]

Also second time you're lining up lyches.

Extremely scummy thing to do.

Ok nice another box on you Meaningless Buzzword Bingo sheet. What do you to match five in a row? Over-defensive?

I guess if you have to dodge the fact that you questions to Vax were vapid and pointless calling me pointing out the only way you'd make that read from your fluff is if you are partners as "lining up lynches" isn't the worst tactic.

[MagnaofIllusion]

Like I don't believe for a second you actually took the time to sort this list, I think you just took a bunch of random names that you didn't think you could justify putting in your scum pile and tossed them in the middle somewhere

Glad others are finally seeing what I am.

Less the three you LLD.

Accountant you are good too.

[MagnaofIllusion]

VOTE: Vaxkiller

While I think it’s hilarious that no-one thinks that SAD isn’t bussing Vax for “Cool guy creds” I don’t object to Vax’s lynch. Vax has done nothing this game that warrants remaining alive and some of his posts are so ridiculously bad (1540 is the top spot) that him eating rope is a great plan. Plus it puts us ever nearer to Defcon 1 which is where things really get interesting.

I mean let’s be frank – if SAD is the master scum-hunter he’s trying to peddle in thread who carefully dissected Vax’s initial entry and laid down a tricksy trap to catch him as scum then there is no universe where he’s reading the thread as closely as he is and makes the following post as Town –

I mean I def see the general uselessness in UT's posts.

Mcmenno and UT are the ones who have been skating the most under the surface. The former has some substance in his posts, the latter has none.

Um what? McMenno has substance in his posts? Look at that ISO and tell me McMenno has one tiny spec of substance. It is Lol-worthy that this even came out of anyone’s keyboard period but the Night and Day between surgeon-like dissection of Vax and “Herp-A-Derp McMenno’s got substance” has to trigger alarm bells people.

And let’s not mention 1543. I mean that is the epitome of scum looking for things in ISO review they can sell as scummy as opposed to actually reading the game flow. GiF’s first vote is clearly a sarcastic response to Cheetory saying “you aren’t even voting someone”. And the second vote is clearly a vote for SS. There is not inherent scum motivation there. Yet SAD response of "WTF is this" is bad bad bad scum looking for nits to pick as opposed to actually looking for scum.

And LLD why did you have to be scum also? Because 1568 is the exact same cherry-picking bullshit that SAD (you know, your top scum read) just did.

Also – Nahdia’s actually getting and claiming CounterIntelligence is a huge Pro-Town move even if she is the either scum affliation. The second a false investigation result occurs she’s locked into a 1v1 with whoever claimed the Guilty and Nukes make that an accelerated process which does not benefit scum no matter who’s fucking around. My worries about her slot are abatted.


--

I very specifically put in literally EVERY troop, in an order of most to least.
Given how many troops there were, I shoulda gotten at least ONE of them, especially since I figured...well.
Yaknow.

So mastin – sell me on you not being scum. Because this post either comes from scum or is an approach so stupid I’d think massive amounts of alcohol were involved in making that decision. I don’t recall you ever mentioning booze and I don’t think you are stupid. So that leaves me with scum.

I said WAYYY BACK at 225 that if you didn’t get your top choice you were very likely getting a Nuke. So for you to specifically have listed all the choices from “Best to Worst” means if you don’t luck out on your first choice you have every likelihood of not getting any of the others. Because if the RNG is not kind to you then your second choice being highly sought after means odds are staggeringly suggest that it would already be gone when Andy looked at everyone’s second choices. And turtles on down as the odds get worse in each round.

So if you really, really wanted a troop you managed to go about it in the worst possible way.

On top of this please claim specifically what your first and second choices were.

[MagnaofIllusion]

is there any point to that question at all

i would say "rolefishing before you die" but it's not even useful rolefishing

she also already answered that question

Can you point me to where mastin specifically listed the order? Because if Sub was not the first on the list I have a real, real hard time believing mastin ordered them by usefulness. Sub is 100% must have material.

And there are reasons that make sense Cephir if you noodle hard enough. I know because I asked mastin to confirm his first two choices for a very good reason.

--

MoI the scum team isn't fucking half the player list.

You complemented LLD for "seeing what you're seeing" in your previous post about the scumread on me.

Now you're calling her scum.

Show me a tier list of your reads.

This … this is great.

The first line is classic undermining. Anyone want to raise their hand who thinks I have more than 6 suspects (which, BTW, isn’t inherently scummy since Town has every reason to think they aren’t going 6/6).

And ooh … the second part where I complimented LLD for seeing SAD as scum (and also other people, but those get left out of this very selective argument) and somehow suggesting she can’t a Terrorist with you Commie or vice-versa or hell even distancing buddies who just dislike each other.

The most Teck part of this response is ignoring all the points made in hoping that not addressing his scummy ass post about GiF or the fact that he demonstrated he isn’t having to read to find Commies by saying McMenno has substance will make those points go away.

And yes – I’m specifically ignoring the last line because IDGAF about your opinion. My scum reads are well established in thread.

--

Nice misrep. I like how you reference the beginning post instead of how it ended:

The point – you missed. I don’t care where “it ended” because it was massively bad post. There is no “secret information” and SAD couldn’t possibly have his role at the point he made those posts. This is an open game. Period. The fact that you are scrambling so hard to find “lies” by SAD (which were clearly just dumb posts) to undermine the wagon on you and coming up with garbage means you are a great lynch today.

[MagnaofIllusion]

Um what? McMenno has substance in his posts? Look at that ISO and tell me McMenno has one tiny spec of substance. It is Lol-worthy that this even came out of anyone’s keyboard period but the Night and Day between surgeon-like dissection of Vax and “Herp-A-Derp McMenno’s got substance” has to trigger alarm bells people.

This is a solid point, but it needs to be filed under 'L' for Let's Cross The Bridge When We Get There.

Random notes:

SAD vs LLD is town on town, I think.

For the record I am still on board with a RC nuke / lynch after he tells me "Oh, this is an absolutely solid point that SAD's posts don't make sense from a Town perspective but we should deal with it later" and then IMMEDIATELY calls SAD Town.

[MagnaofIllusion]

@Ceph

- I didn't read it that way but here is the post in question and there is enough lack of clarity which is why I asked mastin specifically for the top two choices ...

What the hell.

I very specifically put in literally EVERY troop, in an order of most to least.
Given how many troops there were, I shoulda gotten at least ONE of them, especially since I figured...well.
Yaknow.

You'd be a bunch of nuke-happy gun-toting 'MURICANS.

Apparently not!

No Espionage. No Battleship. No Eavesdrop. No Aircraft Carrier. No Air Base. No Radar. No Dead Hand (my name for the failsafe). No Submarine. No Covert Ops Team. No Strategic Missile Defense. No Fighter. No Fallout Shelter. No Counterintelligence.

Literally EVERY. SINGLE. ONE. Of them got picked. By someone in the game.
Because if so much as ONE of them had been left unpicked, I should have gotten something!

I mean if that list at the bottom is the order then mastin is crazy in the head with Submarine BELOW seven other choices that include Eavesdrop or Radar.

[MagnaofIllusion]

Further, your SAD scumread relies utterly and completely on Vax flipping scum. Any scum flip necessitates reevaluation.

Um nope. That's clearly not the case. I've been calling SAD scum well before Vax replaced in.

So are you actually reading the thread?

The whole "Vax and SAD scum theatre side-show" is just the most recent of reasons why SAD needs rope or to be a glowing crater ASAP.

[MagnaofIllusion]

Kind of makes sense given mastin's apparent disinterest in nuking.

Meh. I mean if he didn't want the Sub because it is still Nuking why bother submitting it. Clearly unless he put it first he wasn't getting it. Which makes me think that whole post might be more song and dance than anything else.

Still I want clarification from mastin on the top two choices regardless.

[MagnaofIllusion]

So Vax's alignment has no bearing whatsoever on your SAD read?

Not a ton, no. Why do you think it should?

[MagnaofIllusion]

My understanding is that her objective was to ensure every troop was taken and grab any troop that was not taken by submitting all of them. In that case, no reason not to.

Maybe. But let's be real - 0.000000% chance the Sub doesn't get taken. And 0.000000% mastin got the sub unless she put it at the very first slot of her list.

[MagnaofIllusion]

LOL

MoI needs hardcore nuking.

He basically just said on thread that he's unwilling to revaluate based on a flip.

Lol indeed.

What Vax flip should make me question my you-as-scum read given that I'm already fully on record that your "Scum-hunting" of Vax looks like some of the most obvious fakery this side of PT Barnum's "Come See the Egress"?

I'm waiting for your fully thought out and well articulated response.

[MagnaofIllusion]

Though I do wonder why someone who doesn't give a fuck about my opinion wants my opnion through a fully thought out and well articulated response???

Well mainly to demonstrate that you couldn't actually make one.

It's pretty straightforward. Given I am scum-reading you pretty strongly and your push on Vax reads as pretty ludicrously based it makes sense as a bus. So what flip of Vax would you take a stab at being a reason for me to drop everything and re-think my read?

Commie Scum? Nope .. that's what I expect to happen.

American Hero? Of course not given your reasons for scum reading Vax are moonbeams and pushing lynches on Town are part and parcel of what scum have to do.

Terrorist? Again - not clearing alignment wise of you in any way.

I just wanted to see if you would even try to justify your "OMG NUKEZ THIZ DUDEZ HE'S LINING UP LYNCHES OMG" stance as anything more than empty buzzwording.

[MagnaofIllusion]

hmmm I take that back there might only be 1-2 scum on the UT wagon, being Ircher and Reck

here we go

So Fate isn't allowed to ever suspect you?

[MagnaofIllusion]

I'm also wondering why Untrod is getting so much crap for having an empty pointless ISO while hiplop is getting none .. it puzzles me ...

[MagnaofIllusion]

i mean he's free to do it, he's just wrong for the 11 billionth time

Well ok .. as long as he's free to do it.

Lack of freedom is a hallmark of Commie ideals you know ...

[MagnaofIllusion]

I will refrain from namecalling which would call into question your intelligence and instead simply settle on calling into question your reading comprehension as the list was explicitly a most to least.

Lol. Just lol.

[MagnaofIllusion]

Please help why isn't it working

It only applies to Non-Mafia game forums.

[MagnaofIllusion]

If THAT'S one of the red flags you come up with than I don't see why you're worried

Because he's scum who has to keep his options open for inventing reasons why down the line he can stop Townreading you ...

[MagnaofIllusion]

MoI I get you're scum reading him but you can't really think every little thing he does is scummy?

I'm still town reading him pretty hard despite my dislike of many of his opinions

I know what I'm doing Spiffeh ...

[MagnaofIllusion]

At this stage lack of Vaxkiller votes are holding up advancement to Defcon 1 and glorious flying Nukes. Let’s get on this people.

--

It is very concerning that this is ALL S_S has to contribute ever since he's been off the chopping block

Especially since he promised to give reads and reasoning "later".

How long do I have to wait?

As long as he thinks he can get away with not contributing …

--

I need to glance over the Vaxkiller case. Can anyone point me in the direction of ISO's that have reasons Vax is scum?

The case is that he’s not doing anything especially Town, is making moonbeam posts, and generally is more a sacrifice on the Altar of “Getting to Defcon1” than anything else.

--

I don't agree that Vax vs SAD is a bus; I can't imagine SAD would try to bus by asking a dumbass question and pretending to scumread Vax for it, especially not since this kind of bus out of nowhere is almost certainly planned in the scum PT.

Two questions –

1. Since you seem to agree that the pure basis of SAD’s magical scum-read on Vax is garbage what do you think of SAD?
2. Why don’t you think SAD and Vax didn’t plan this in the scum PT?

[MagnaofIllusion]

im bored now

Then vote Vaxkiller to get us one step closer to Defcon 1.

[MagnaofIllusion]

VOTE: Faxkiller

[MagnaofIllusion]

Vaxkiller because he tried to defend Ircher's post by accusing me of a misrep while making a misrep himself, he tried to appeal to people defending him, and his tone is very stilted and doesn't feel like town under unjust pressure.
Ircher because his readlists contained numerous strange reads with weak or basically nonexistent reasoning (Cheetory, SpyreX, mastina, Cephrir, Reck, and me in particular).
Nukebringer because gut. Well, more than that, it seems like Firebringer is trying to imitate his town play and not doing a very good job of it.

Where'd I go? I thought I was your first "non-gut" read.

[MagnaofIllusion]

I got eavesdropper. I asked for it 2nd. Here is my request list in order. espionage, eavesdrop, sub, strat missle defense, missle silo

@LLD

- I thought you were taking Eavesdrop as your first pick ...

[MagnaofIllusion]

I've only been able to phone follow but am I really seeing arguments that "Vax must be Town since he has Eavesdrop"?

Really?

Has LLD chimed in to call bullshit on that yet?

[MagnaofIllusion]

Nah, dude. I just want to redeem myself from last time.

Then why are you wanting the Eavesdrop and not Righteous Nuclear Power?

If you'll recall, I had a nuke last time.

If I could find someone who I thought was town but didn't trust with a nuke I'd shove it onto them and take a nuke.

But I don't have that yet, so.

If you'll recall, I had a nuke last time.

No I don't recall. I thought you took Eavesdrop.

Grumble grumble making me look way back to find that info ...

Nope, I had a nuke and someone else has eavesdrop and they fed me the codes and I pretended to solve them.

God damn it LLD in my head cannon you had Eavesdrop as scum.

Stop correcting my head cannon with facts!!!!!

[MagnaofIllusion]

Yup ... and it fires Nukes ...

[MagnaofIllusion]

MOD – I’ll be V/LA from tonight at 4:30 EST until Monday. Thanksgiving family time and normal weekend duties. I will try to get some content into the thread but it will sporadic and phone-posted most likely.

I just want Nuke-blood to quicken the process of awakening the Nuke God. While I think Vax is still a perfectly acceptable lynch for reasons I elaborate on below if at any point my vote moving to SomethingSmart is the tipping point for making it a bigger wagon than Vax’s I will go there. Still have a scum read on that slot. Spiffeh is spot on in 1934 on why SS’s “Oh, ask me stuff” is scum motivated.

Vax is still a good rope / Nuke target because his behavior has rapidly shifted into “I’m helping” Mode after his claim. Suddenly the vast majority of his posts are simply info dumps of his claimed Eavesdrop info. With the occasional OMGUS thrown in. The posts completely lack any attempt to analyze the data he is providing. This is classic “active lurking” play … he’s making posts in thread but actually contributing nothing to actually parsing out who can be scum. Take his initial post claim dump. How long has he been sitting on those posts? Who knows … but it has to have been long enough to have given him some time to try and parse something out of them. Yet he clearly has shown no inclination to work with the “important” information. Which is something you would expect for Town who took the Eavesdrop role to “catch scum”.

Now personally if Vax is not Commie and just terrible I think I want RC to die ASAP. He’s played this whole Vax wagon like he knows it is a not Commie flip. 1995 reads as “Oh, I finally have the justification to get on the wagon without getting flack for sheeping”. And the speed at which he pulls the ripcord post claim says “Not getting caught on that lynch nope nope nope”. I mean read 2071 and don’t tell me RC is considering for a second that Vax-scum could have lied about where Eavesdrop went in his draft list. He’s not. He’s taking Vax’s statements at face value. Which Commie scum tend to inadvertently do when they know they aren’t dealing with a partner. Same unsurprisingly goes for SAD in 2077.

2028 by SAD is nice because I can be happy that Sprex is not his partner given that it is later shown that clip is more or less directly ripped from GreyICE’s ISO.

If anything those drops with lack of punctuation and capitalization look like hiplop to me who shocker of shocks has been more or less thread absent.

Mastin’s 2049 is finally a post that I can see from mastin Town. I don’t agree with the conclusion (it is much more likely in my mind to be a hiplop thing …he’d totally troll like that) on UT but I can see the Town perspective there.

Oh and Ircher is scum of some sorts – 2193 is totally fabricated “frustration” since his vote is parked on vanity wagon McMenno and he is doing nothing to actually move the day forward aka voting a big wagon.

--

I form reads by reading what the person says and taking a lot of small things into account. But I can't take notes because it would disrupt my thoughts and I don't have a god memory, so it's a pain for me to explain reads.

So you form reads by taking many small details into account. And you have a not so godlike memory so it is hard to explain it. But you don’t do the one thing that would make your playstyle effective (taking notes)?

This so can die …

By the same token, the fewer people left in the game, the more initiative I can take in explaining stuff. In other words my content level will increase as the game goes on.

“Just leave me alone so I can coast I promise I’ll be more effective at faking Town later in the game”

--

If you took even a cursory glance at any of the three previous games, you'd know this. I mean, you have 24 players and 13 troops. One is taken off the top for the Terrorist, so let's make it 12 troops. Three other troops were openly 'claimed' to my knowledge (Counterintelligence, Eavesdrop and Submarine).

So in a long piece (and condescending) piece about how mastin was bad for not understanding the past and the set-up you posted incorrect information about the set-up (specifically that the Terrorist automatically takes one troop out of play). Do I have that correct?

[MagnaofIllusion]

VOTE: Something Smart

Fate's move means my switch makes SS a more viable wagon than Vax.

[MagnaofIllusion]

2023 looks rly town to me

Spiffeh read 2193 and then look at the Vote Count and get back to me ...

[MagnaofIllusion]

2023 looks rly town to me

Spiffeh read 2193 and then look at the Vote Count and get back to me ...

ok I did it and still think he's town

Why? There is fuck-all reason for Ircher to be complaining about the day still going on when he's parked on a vanity wagon and has been all day long.

[MagnaofIllusion]

I mean it's a stupid thing to say but not really indicative of scum?

But it isn't stupid per se. Plenty of other people have been begging for Day to end. Spyrex and myself I know and I suspect UT as well. Probably more can be found if I wanted to dig (I don't). So it is a way to get in on the "Oh this Day keeps dragging let's Nuke baby" train being floated. But his actions don't match up to what he said motivation-wise.

[MagnaofIllusion]

MAGNA

MAKE HIM GIVE ME THE EAVSEDROPS

I would if I could.

But mean old Reck denied us sweet Nukes today so I can't threaten him with glowing crater death ...

[MagnaofIllusion]

xavier frank tom laura

xRECKONERx, Fate, Toogeloo (Now Vex), LLD

Way too obvious if you want to actually scum-hunt with it.

If scum have parsed out fake names and actually want to use them for themselves instead of for Town then they did it pre-game before the Eavesdrop was activated and didn't make it this easily broken.

If scum want it for WIFOM we ignore it.

Either way no benefit trying to align players to names.

[MagnaofIllusion]

The sun is out, the sky is blue, and MoI and LLD still need nukes.

What else is new?

For the record I totally can't wait for this to be a glowing radioactive crater ...

[MagnaofIllusion]

This is honestly the vote count?

Balls to that.

Vote: Mastina

LLD is scum.

So your action when stating LLD is scum is to vote the player who stated they are nuking LLD?

Whut?

[MagnaofIllusion]

Good work guys see you tomorrow please don't kill me SK.

The terrorist usually doesn't want to hit Commies this early so I think you are safe ...

VOTE: UT

This day has to end. I don't want to have to wait til page 200 for Nukes to fly.

[MagnaofIllusion]

Well I guess SS is viable again ...

VOTE: Something Smart

[MagnaofIllusion]

About damn time ...

Since I'm voting SS scum already I don't have to move my vote. I'll try to get caught up with anything of import before the thread gets locked today but have a few pressing items.

All Town Power-Roles

- Ignore any plans laid out by SAD when SS flips Commie. His "Oh don't counter-claim actual Esp" crap should make it clear he's SS's Commie buddy. The Doctor

MUST

be on GiF with a scum flip on SS. Failure to do so is tantamount to a scum claim.

A Commie flip from SS makes today not so bad from a scum-hunting perspective. We have tons of wagon movement around SS to mine for partners. SAD should be going tomorrow as he's been chainsawing for SS since very early on and his play reeks of buddy. Frankly his play reeks of obv scum anyway but I was apparently the only one who saw it. Mastin probably needs to be Nuked the minute we get to DEFCON 1. Mastin may or may not be a partner but needs to be gone just to minimize the amount of mastin ego-noise in thread.

Further a SS Commie flip means UT is very likely Town (or more precisely Not-Commie).

More later - need to get my own game Vote Counts up to speed.

[MagnaofIllusion]

Why is MoI going after low hanging fruit.

Something Smart is probably town.

Yup. Commie SS means SAD can be roped with impunity tomorrow.

[MagnaofIllusion]

VOTE: SAD

I'll be providing a complete tour-de-force of why this is the choice for today.

[MagnaofIllusion]

So let’s have a look at how strongly SAD works Day 1 to protect SomethingSmart shall we?

oh hey I finally rolled town in a large
but now I have 23 slots to sort...
I'll probably just sheep people who are actually good. (Which is like, everybody. Except me. )

I'm dayvigging the shit out of you.

SAD’s response to SS’s scummy opening. But wait for it …

Why is MoI going after low hanging fruit.

Something Smart is probably town.

Oh look – the second someone voices suspicion of SS suddenly he’s “Low hanging fruit”. Funny that a great person to Nuke suddenly is Town simply because they were getting suspicion.

PAPAZITO IS TOWN

CHEETORY666 IS TOWN

Something Special and Reck leaning town.

And the Town read (with no reasons for such) continues …

You were making hella awkward posts though I needed to PRESSURE you like others did for Something Special.

Now you're both in the VI category of low hanging fruit that are prob town.

Now I will SET MY TRAP CARD:

To see who goes for the low hanging fruit.

MoI and Ceph have already fell into it.

Note the SAD is acknowledging that SS’s posts were worth pressure but everyone who pressured him is suspect. Nice little dichotomy.

Because low hanging fruit != town.

Well they usually lean town if they're making VI yet genuine sounding posts.

Which both Something Special and Nahdia are doing.

STREEETTTCCCHHHING to justify that Something Smart’s posts were a reason to Town read him.

re: the setup, I'll think about that when it's not 2 am.

^ This sounded genuine.

I think scum would have already discussed the setup in their private thread and most of them have already formed opinions about it.

So if scum were asked, even if they have have not formed a strong opinion themselves they would have leaned one way or another due to the amount of discussion regarding the setup in the private thread.

Now obv that's assuming scum discussed the setup, but I strongly believe in that and willing to go on that assumption.

Oh look – terrible reasoning to further justify his “genuine” read on SS’s posts.

Actually take this response on a whole:

VOTE: For

Something_Smart.
Can you give some thoughts on the setup or some reads?

good question

re: the setup, I'll think about that when it's not 2 am.

re: reads, initial feelings say:
towny: Cheetory, mastina, UT, MoI, Spiffeh
scummy: Nukebringer, GiF, Cephrir
conflicting feelings: RC, LLD, Nahdia
discussion tabled for now- Reck

What's easier for scum:

To give thoughts on the setup
Or to give reads.

I think theorizing about the setup or giving your opinion about it etc is much much easier for scum seeing as they have other people who they've already talked to or seen talking about the setup.

The fact that he skips the setup question and answers the reads question just reads super genuine and townie.

To quote DJ Khalid – and another one …

What do you think about what I said about Something Special?

Do you see it as genuine, someone who sincerely hasn't given much thought/bothered with the setup (because I can assure you scum would have much more thought about the setup - so your only two options really are that it reads genuine or that he faked not having any thoughts about the setup)?

Do you disagree that he went after something that is more dangerous when he could've went with the easier route?

And is this:

oh hey I finally rolled town in a large
but now I have 23 slots to sort...
I'll probably just sheep people who are actually good. (Which is like, everybody. Except me. )

^
RED EVERYWHERE IN THIS POST

You only reasoning for your scumread?

Pedit: @GIF

And here we see throwing shade at GiF to suggest that his suspicion of SS is bad – classic chain-sawing.

How are you guys gonna strawman this hard:

every post is a reaction test if you think about it the right way

>being flippant to dodge the point I made

what's your point? obviously it wasn't intended to produce reactions. that doesn't mean I can't look at the reactions it did produce.

He admits he didn't intend for it to be a reaction test, he just happened to be looking at the reactions that it stirred up. I don't see the problem with that?

And yet another defense of how Town SS was.

MoI your whole interaction with Something Special is really

really

really

fucking forced.

I lolled hard when I got to this part of his ISO.

So SAD - why don't you clearly give us a scum read list and any Town reads you might have?

Cheetory, Something Special, Reck
Accountant, Mastina, Zito, Greyice, Nahdia
Mcmenno, EP, Vax, UT, Fate, Cephrir, hiplop, Nukebringer, RC, lrcher
Spyrex, MoI, LLD, GIF, Spiffeh

Oh look one Red Commie Scum flip in this Town and a Blue True American flip in his Null reads. This will be useful for further dissection when SAD flips scum.

It has been 96 pages since Something Special's first post and UT wants to use it now to scumread him and want him lynched.

This is a shallow way of looking at it. UT is entirely right that the opening to a game is one of the most vulnerable times for scum.

I mean, if he caught it on page 3,

or 5, or 10, or anything that's not near page 100, sure.

But he's literally just using it now to scumread someone.

I typically don't like tipping my hand to the scumteam as it is, in this game where I get to just fucking shoot them I'm even less inclined.

A man after my own heart.

I've been slammed lately, but I'm off work Wednesday-Sunday so I'll go back tonight and see what I've missed or skimmed. Off the top of my head though, I'm unsure why SS is getting a pass going into D1 considering that he hasn't done anything that made his first post(s) in the game less awful and his vote on my wagon was opportunistic and scummy as shit. mastina is still terrible and nukeworthy. Grey is town as fk. not a huge fan of Cheet's post right before this. Accountant is town.

vote SS

I still want this to die. I'm nuking it tomorrow, if I don't live that long someone else needs to nuke it.

> "I still want SS to die.
> First time mentioning Something Special in his life.

Cut to much later where SAD is still chainsawing at anyone who suspects SS.

Zzzz Something Special's wagon looks like a disaster of a lynch waiting to happen.

LOL.

Well I guess SS is viable again ...

VOTE: Something Smart

Congrats you have jumped on all 3 leading wagons without good reasons.

Got to give him credit for balls calling my vote for someone he’s been calling me scum for suspecting as “without good reasons”.

Here is where I'm at currently before end of Day1

Reck, Mastina, lrcher, Something Special,
Cheetory, Nahdia, Accountant, Greyice, Cephrir, hiplop, Spiffeh
Zito, Mcmenno, Nukebringer, RC, Fate, EP
Vaxkiller, Spyrex, GIF
UT, MoI, LLD

Need to evaluate some of those reads esp like tier 2 and 4 cuz I have faint memories of some of the slots. And need to actually put in the ~effort~ to pay attention to and prob reread some of the null slots.

prodge because thanksgiving, etc

Claim asap tia.

DO NOT

DO NOT

COUNTER CLAIM

If you don’t see a pre-planned sequence here I can’t help you. It could not be more obvious that SAD knew the Cop claim was coming and wanted to make sure it didn’t get counter-claimed to save his buddy.

[MagnaofIllusion]

TL : DR Summary for whiners -

SAD spent all of Day 1 chainsawing and defending scum for moronic reasons. He set up a "Real Cop don't counterclaim" scenario to buy his buddy a few more days until he could get a Nuke off before dying.

[MagnaofIllusion]

Now back to business –

@GreyICE

– why near the end of Day 1 was I your IC when I had been pushing your Town read SAD all day and you had not mentioned me before that point?

Glad to see a result from GiF even if it was on Fate.

--

VOTE: Nukebringer

Can we please do this

Show me something at least as compelling as the SAD case and we can talk. Otherwise no.

[MagnaofIllusion]

P-Edit: Inb4 UT is SK who killed Fate to free up his nuke. :'D

I think that Fate being a Terrorist kill makes me more suspicious of a swath of players that includes UT, Spyrex, Reck, Grey and LLD as possible Terrorists.

[MagnaofIllusion]

There's also that I think after all of the stink that Spiff and I have made, there should have been more of a response from Nukebringer in general, but instead they've been pretty muted.

Also also feel like there's a very real possibility that they're trying to abuse hydra dynamics to avoid Fire posting things in the game after he got a lot of heat earlier in the game.

I think worst case Nukebringer needs to be turned into a glowing crater ASAP Defcon 1. However I think the SAD case is stronger and scum have shown they are more than willing to work hard to get their SILOs to Defcon1 for extra kills.

[MagnaofIllusion]

I do think there's a wealth of information in the thread and we would probably be remiss to lynch and get more things to talk about without fully processing it all.

pedit shhhh im posting

I do agree with this. I know you disagree with wagon analysis but I think the interchange between Vax UT SS and Mastin wagons will yield some PoE possibilities once we have some more flips.

[MagnaofIllusion]

MoI makes a lot of good points and maybe I've just been blinded by how tonally town SAD has sounded the whole game?

Which is why I've always said that Tone reading is usually not meaningful as it has as much to do with play-style as alignment IMO.

[MagnaofIllusion]

Why kill someone who was probably gonna get nuked anyway?

Who was going to Nuke Fate in your mind? Maybe I missed some context there but he to my mind was way down the "Nuking" chain of priorities.

[MagnaofIllusion]

I don't really know how useful it is to spec on third party at this point anyways.

Meh. In my mind it is something to do while we wait for SAD to post his "notes" and pray that his super-conciliatory surrender cobra stances today save him from the rope.

Which is absolutely not happening.

[MagnaofIllusion]

Nahdia is on my list. Grey also looks like a strong candidate. I'm up in the air on Vax and re-reading his ISO is on my list of priorities. That's my top of mind list.

I took a quick look at wagons overnight and now think RC is much less likely to be scum but also want to ISO him also.

Lastly I want to look at the people who put early pressure on Something but didn't end up pushing him pre-claim.

[MagnaofIllusion]

Not to worry, I have a foolproof method of proving I am town, and that is...my activity! Because, you see...I did not log into mastina at all between the time of the lynch and the time of day start! And clearly, that means there is no POSSIBLE way I am scum.

Clearly. Because surely not logging onto mastina is proof that I could in no way whatsoever be scum!

Lol. Just Lol.

[MagnaofIllusion]

So looking at wagon movement at the important moments. and such I have the following initial thoughts –

Gif, Untrod, Cheet, RC and Accountant have movement patterns I think look pretty Town.

Spiffeh and Spyrex have so-so patterns. Nothing great but nothing terrible.

Nukebringer and GreyICE have votes that look very much like bussing if it was happening.

Those who either never voted SS in the period or didn’t stay on long enough to hit a vote-count:

PZ, McMenno, LLD, mastina, Reck, EP, Vax, SAD, hiplop, Nahdia, Ircher

Of those I want SAD terminated today and only think PZ looks fairly good on the basis of the rest of his play to be excluded from the Nukeable pool. I’m most interested in looking at EP and Ircher in ISO.

[MagnaofIllusion]

moi you forgot me :'(

Yeah sorry. You are in my "Town looking voting pattern". I'm guessing in all my back and forth movement of names you got swallowed since you and Cheet are similar enough ...

[MagnaofIllusion]

The closest I have to a reason for suspecting Nukebringer is that I am not only one, agreeing with Firebringer, but two, that he would defend me.

...All the same. He's totally right here.

Something_smart is NOT a scumbuddy you hardcore defend, and ANYONE who thinks otherwise is a complete and total fucking moron.

Well given you were dead wrong on Something and your defense was second only to SAD's which way should I go -

That your reads are garbage and should be ignored as Town / Terrorist?

or

You are scum making a self-serving "I'd have bussed SS" argument even thought you are completely anti-bussing historically?

[MagnaofIllusion]

we seem to like forgetting that this setup discourages bussing pre-nukes

Yup. That little tidbit is why SAD is today's lynch. SS being a Silo means he had to get to Defcon 1 to get the free scum kill.

[MagnaofIllusion]

I get the sense as I depart my computer that mastin's sudden flurry of activity is more or less motivated to derail the righteous SAD lynch.

[MagnaofIllusion]

Hey.
Hey Magna.

What do you think of your glorious crusade now?

When I tell you someone is my fucking strongest townread and not to fucking lynch them because they WILL be flipping town.
Maybe, juuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuust maybe.
You should recognize that they are my fucking STRONGEST townread and will be flipping town. Because while I can and will be wrong about my townreads. I am NEVER fucking wrong about my absolute STRONGEST townread.

I think you spent so much time arguing against SS to be lynched Day 1 that I don't really care if you were right on SAD. SAD was a quality lynch and regardless whether you think so or not that's the truth.

True story.

So juuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuust maybe you should maybe chew on the fact that I don't really care if he was your strongest Town-read or not.

Do like it? Too bad.

[MagnaofIllusion]

Covert Ops Team: (*NEW*) In order to carry out a successful nuclear strike, it is crucial to ensure the missile will not be deflected and the enemy left unscathed and free to retaliate. Special infiltration teams are secretly positioned in every enemy nation, read to make sure this happens when the brass gives the word. {Each night, you may target a player. If target player is currently deploying a missile silo, you sabotage it.

Until the next night phase, if the missile silo uses either function, the missile will launch but not detonate

. For nuclear launch mode, the ICBM will not detonate and the target will not die. For Anti-ballistic missile mode, the missile will launch but will not intercept its target.}

Just dropping this here to point out something else Mastin is wrong about - we don't know if he was sabotaged until after the nuke lands. Maybe next time do a bit more thinking about your grand plans ...

--

MOD - I'll be V/LA as usual for the weekend

.

Spiffeh's flip and what happens with Nukebringer and PapaZito will help me when I go through my analysis of the Day 1 wagons after I get back.

[MagnaofIllusion]

@MoI

Spiffeh, Russian (Missile Silo), was Sabotaged N2.

So? I don't understand your point GiF. Spiffeh was Terroist killed not subject to the Covert Ops Team.

[MagnaofIllusion]

Please vote EP with me?

Sure ... he was on my short list of death before Spiffeh flipped.

VOTE: EP

Off to bed.

[MagnaofIllusion]

So taking a quick read through Spiffeh's ISO I think the chance of Nuke as Commie scum are basically nil.

McMenno should probably recall that nuke.

I might start screaming for McLynch otherwise.

[MagnaofIllusion]

Phone post to say with all the proven Silos out there PoE for the Terrorist is going to be a powerful tool long term.

UNVOTE: EP since I want to see the carnage results and process Defcon 3 wagons before we hang someone.

[MagnaofIllusion]

God dammit I wheeled and dealer and traded my nuke for my life

I'm gonna fuckin use it goddamit

Keep an eye on the clock with the Sub shot (or shots I forget both lists) and make sure you have a target lined up before you may expire.

[MagnaofIllusion]

Phone post to say with all the proven Silos out there PoE for the Terrorist is going to be a powerful tool long term.

UNVOTE: EP since I want to see the carnage results and process Defcon 3 wagons before we hang someone.

Never fucking mind on the first point ... Derp ... The Terrorsit can have a Silo as their draft and thus access to three kills a day.

[MagnaofIllusion]

I have a hard time, though, seeing SK-Reck letting me live instead of going to for the slam dunk lynch D1

I have a hard time believing an SK would stick their neck out that much for a Day 1 lynch ...

Although it makes sense if you are Commie scum UT.

[MagnaofIllusion]

VOTE: hiplop

[MagnaofIllusion]

VOTE: hiplop

And my vote for worst vote in the thread goes to

Hilarious Grey. I mean it's not like Nuke is so unlikely to be Commie that we already called of one nuke on him.

Is he your Commie partner.

[MagnaofIllusion]

So the spamming began once Defcon 1 hit. Well at least my catch-up will be easier to handle.

So once again – hiplop needs to die sooner rather than later. We’ll see whether my read on Nuke not being Commie is correct soon enough but looking at Spiffeh’s ISO I don’t see them as partners. So the fact that hiplop dropped in to nuke a player who is very unlikely to be scum means I don’t want his fucking judgement anywhere near LYLO.

Can’t wait to see what reaction Spyrex sabotaging Mastin’s Nuke elicits from Mastin.

Also highlights from Spiffeh’s ISO –

I think the nuke doctor is way more useful than 3/10

Dropping this here so everyone can note that Commie Spiffeh would probably have prioritized one of his partners going after SMD. Which puts Ircher back at the forefront of my potential scum list. 1248 also makes me think Ircher stands a good chance of being a partner.

Also RC’s interactions with Spiffeh also didn’t make him a good scum candidate on top of his having good voting patterns re: SS. PapaZito is now not a Town read for me for that shot.

Cheetory and Spiffeh’s interactions don’t say scum partners to me but I don’t have any direct experience with either of them as scum to be super confident in that.

My current ultra conservative nuke pile is {Something_Smart, Nukebringer}

For the record – look at how Spiffeh treated these two in his “conservative Nukepile” to see why Nukeis likely not scum. He pushed Nukebringer all Day 1. He basically prods SS to be better while softly calling him scum (see 865 as example).

Cheet and Accountant are my most confident town reads that I'm willing to suggest for this "bloc" atm

Posting this to show the odd “Most Confident” Town read on Accountant when Spiffeh had basically zero interactions with him prior to this post.

People I don't want nuked this phase under any circumstance: {Accountant, Cheetory6, MoI, Papa Zito, Cephrir, Reck, SpyreX}
People I think are town but not enough to warrant being in the first group: {LLD, hiplop, mastina, SAD, McMenno, RedCoyote}
People I wouldn't mind seeing get nuked: {Untrod Tripod, Fate, GreyICE, Nahdia, Something_Smart, ErrantParabola, Ircher}
People that need to be lynched/nuked at the earliest opportunity: {GIF, Vaxkiller, Nukebringer}

So I don’t see Spiffeh sticking more than two of his parters in the later two categories. Ircher is my best bet from that pool as it currently stands.

Will mull over who in the top two categoires makes the most sense as partners.

1864 – chainsaw against RedCoyote for (mastin, McMenno, Ircher, Vax) is worth remembering.

2283 – This is enough for me to vote Ircher at this stage …

VOTE: Ircher

At this point in time I want all of {Nukebringer, Vaxkiller, UT, EP, Something_Smart, Nahdia, Fate, GI, RedCoyote} dead by the end of the nuke phase

Probably no other partners on this list …

[MagnaofIllusion]

So on a good note I got to skip like 5 pages of Reck / UT / LLD so that’s something …

I think it is pretty telling that mastin has been all “Scum would sabotage me if LLD is scum”, has that proven to have happened, and just dropped both LLD and Spyrex as scum.

--

Also, didnt scum have a kill too? Whered it go?

Missed this before – “Congratulate the Doctor” scum tell engaged …

1 in 3 is a better chance than anything else.

Yup … this gets rope.

One problem though: If the SK and mafia both decide to kill GIF.

Translation – “Hello Mr. Terrorist work with us tonight to get this pesky Cop out of the game thank you so much!”

And before anyone says “Why would scum Ircher save Reck Town” let me post this little tidbit ..

OH HEY.

thanks Ircher, you're a bro

Ircher can be town forever now

all praise

VOTE: McMenno

No one's nuking this slot right now, and I feel there's a decent chance of scum here. Disclaimer: I'm a terrible scumhunter.

VOTE: Ircher

Yes, I was already voting him but this post deserves it again …

--

I believe in you Cheeto.

That makes one of us.

So you’ve just come off having Spiffeh buddy you hard and this didn’t ping you even a little bit?

--

you people and your analyzing lists like they aren't pointless drivel

i swear youll be the death of me

Hey Cephir – remember Kids Mafia where I had fairly good reads on ALL the scum who weren’t Bro being a jackass but was ignored (aside from Trans who vigged them all) for my methods?

Yeah …

[MagnaofIllusion]

a broken clock is right twice a day.

i also assume you did more than just that.

It did. And am. I frankly just get sick of seeing the whining about, you know, actually trying to scum-hunt using the words scum actually wrote in the thread.

Should I make a crack about said broken clock being right at least once? Lol.

--

@MoI, I currently have Ircher leaning town because he intercepted a nuke headed towards RECK, who claimed to be the town roleblocker (which is probably a town claim considering no blocks on GiF). Thoughts on that action?

And before anyone says “Why would scum Ircher save Reck Town” let me post this little tidbit ..

OH HEY.

thanks Ircher, you're a bro

Ircher can be town forever now

all praise[/quote

[MagnaofIllusion]

Just call me scum. It's probably easier than appealing to my sense of decency after calling me an idiot multiple times.

Actually the fact that he refuses to do so is probably justification for keeping your Nuke in the air ...

[MagnaofIllusion]

@Nahdia

- since you brought up your Town read on Ircher earlier ... what do you think about these specifically?

Also, didnt scum have a kill too? Whered it go?

Missed this before – “Congratulate the Doctor” scum tell engaged …

1 in 3 is a better chance than anything else.

Yup … this gets rope.

One problem though: If the SK and mafia both decide to kill GIF.

Translation – “Hello Mr. Terrorist work with us tonight to get this pesky Cop out of the game thank you so much!”

VOTE: McMenno

No one's nuking this slot right now, and I feel there's a decent chance of scum here. Disclaimer: I'm a terrible scumhunter.

VOTE: Ircher

Yes, I was already voting him but this post deserves it again …

[MagnaofIllusion]

[Day 3, DEFCON 1 - Nukebringer]

"What is best in life? To nuke your enemies. To see them burning before you and hear the lamentations of the survivors." -- Nukebringer

"Mr. President."
"This better be good news. We just lost Nellis, Cheyenne Mountain, and the Puntbucket. There is no way to spin this in a positive light."
"There is now. One of the task force members fired their ordinance at a small coastal town in Eastern Russia, seemingly on a gamble. It paid off. The entire facility has been destroyed, along with their commander."
"That is excellent news. We've got the Russians running scared!"
"Well, it would be if we hadn't lost so many."
"Yes, but their sacrifices have not been in vain. America will not be defeated by these petty commies."

Nukebringer, Russian (Missile Silo), Nuked D3!

Well on a good note ...

On a bad note up is down, dogs are cats, and my reads are all fucked up ...

[MagnaofIllusion]

Also

UNVOTE: Ircher

No chance he turns up Commie now ...

[MagnaofIllusion]

Can someone link me to where LLD claimed Fallout Shelter? I missed it apparently.

--

Well this confirms Mastina non-SK I believe, since Covert Ops team should sabotage all abilities from my reading.

Um, whut?

Covert Ops Team: (*NEW*) In order to carry out a successful nuclear strike, it is crucial to ensure the missile will not be deflected and the enemy left unscathed and free to retaliate. Special infiltration teams are secretly positioned in every enemy nation, read to make sure this happens when the brass gives the word. {Each night, you may target a player. If target player is currently deploying a missile silo, you sabotage it. Until the next night phase, if the missile silo uses either function, the missile will launch but not detonate. For nuclear launch mode, the ICBM will not detonate and the target will not die. For Anti-ballistic missile mode, the missile will launch but will not intercept its target.}

Read that again and please point me to where it says anything about any ability other than Missle Silos.

--

i can only assume they wanted that role out because.... the other scum have nukes maybe??

the fact that he didn't nuke the cop is very interesting

Yes that is suspect as fuck. I mean with Nuke flipping Silo that means scum preferred to kill a Day Nuke Doctor over the Cop or a Roleblocker when three Commies already flipped Silo …

[MagnaofIllusion]

Personally at this point I think Nahdia needs to go sooner rather than later as the WIFOM about GiF's investigations needs to be cut down as much as possible given the following ...

Counterintelligence: Labeling documents "TOP SECRET" is useless if the enemy can walk right in and grab them off your desk. There are also other things that one might want to keep secret, like photos of ... stuff ... and ... yeah. Consequentially, it is unsurprising that governments have devoted just as many, if not more, resources to counterintelligence than intelligence gathering itself. {

Each night, you may target a player, choose an ability that “reveals” a result, and choose a legal result for that ability. If that player is targeted with the chosen ability, it resolves with the result of your choice instead of its normal result. Example: Player A, Espionage, Yes: Causes Player A to appear to be aligned with the selected faction if targeted with Espionage.

One night per game, you may secure all private communications as though it were DEFCON 5 until the end of the next night phase. This does not preclude them from choosing to leak posts.}

Sorry Nahdia that's where my head is at ...

[MagnaofIllusion]

I believe the Fighter has been on her up to this point? Or whatever the trackerish thing is

Clarify - do you mean Nahdia? If so that's incorrect given this post ...

but gif targeted fate and hiplop targeted no one

This also clears hiplop of being the Serial Killer so the only way he can be Commie is if either Nahdia or GiF is Commie also.

[MagnaofIllusion]

Clearly EP didn't agree.

@Gif

- I think you need to not claim exactly who you are investigating going into Night from here on out ...

[MagnaofIllusion]

I can't get over seeing Counterintelligence as an incredibly stupid pick for scum. You can't hide your role in this game, and it's not exactly high utility anyway since you have to play whack a mole.

Yeah ... but at this stage it represents uncertainty. Given we have three Commies dead the amount of uncertainty we can remove from things we think we know are facts needs to be as high as possible.

[MagnaofIllusion]

Nahdia hiplop is cleared of Terrorist be flipped Town EP ...

[MagnaofIllusion]

Nhadia EP was Radar ...

If I wasn't mobile posting a face palm pic would be here

[MagnaofIllusion]

Fuck Radar doesn't track factional ...

I fucking hate posting on a phone ...

[MagnaofIllusion]

@UT – Do not under any circumstances recall that Nuke

.

Game is at a tipping point. Clearing players as either Mafia or Terrorist is paramount for endgame purposes. And mastin needs to die anyway for the copious WIFOM he’s drowned the thread in about how he’d play as alignment blah blah blah.

Right now we know the following –

LLD is not the Terrorist (Blocked by Reck on a Night the Terrorist Nightkill went through).

Hiplop is not Mafia (Both GiF’s investigation which has little chance of being Tailored and nuking Nukebringer)

That’s all the concrete evidence we have. UT is very likely not Mafia being a significant counter-wagon to SS (which Vax also was so I’m not hella thrilled with the Nuke on Vax but he could be the Terrorist I guess). But that isn’t concrete. So confirming whether Spyrex chose to pre-empt and of the Nukes WITHOUT him claiming it in thread is good for both sorting the targets and Spyrex’s possible motivations.

I’m not claiming before the Terrorist gets his Sub shot on. Neither should Grey. The reasons are pretty obvious to anyone now that Cephir claimed Doc. Personally the fact that GiF only dies to Commie strike after the Radar player is Nuked has me leaning wanting Cephir dead. And his play after mastin launched the nuke doesn’t help.

--

In short, I've been right on every player being town. (Well, except Ircher. That one caught me off-guard.) It's the scumflips I've been wrong about.
And when you think about it, this is a natural consequence of my playstyle, which focuses on an "innocent until proven guilty" approach. It's easier to townhunt and name town than it is to scumhunt and name scum.

Literally this is the exact profile of Mafia scum who are allergic to bussing. Which is why Mastin needs to be a glowing crater in the next 36 hours so mastin isn't anywhere near endgame. Of course Cephir flipping Commie means he isn't but it appears that isn't happening until after the recall period.

--

Who fucking cares? Cheet, GIF, Cheet. Yeah, I'm sure I didn't say that in your mind because it was just too darn hard to make up.

So you didn’t protect the claimed Cop N1? I mean you were clearly in the group that new mastin’s theory on GiF being a scum counter-claimer to SS was moronic so you had to feel GiF was Town. Yet you took a chance the Terrorist would hit there even if it was fucking minimal?

[MagnaofIllusion]

Lld whar do people.mean by use my boats

LLD and others are waiting for you to fire your Sub Nuke since they think you are the Terrorist.

And to pre-empt your response you are not confirmed Non-Terrorist. I was wrong that Radar cleared you of being a filthy bombing meanie.

[MagnaofIllusion]

She wants to slaughter everyone... to prove who is and who isn't town. Shes doing the math and trying to end this game tonight

So what is her alignment?

[MagnaofIllusion]

I'd say the SK, which makes hiplop town. Which is though because I really don't like his play either.

Are you reading the thread? With Reck's Town confirmation flip there is no way she can be the Serial Killer ...

[MagnaofIllusion]

So ... have any Eavesdrops to share Vax?

[MagnaofIllusion]

Do you really think her play is town? Tunneling mastina the entire game, begging to be investigated by everyone, then claiming it was a town action to do so. Picking a scummy deployment. Looking to kill people to prove others are town?

I didn't say that. But we know she isn't the Serial Killer and can only be Commie scum.

What about her deployment is inherently scummy? And what do you think of Spyrex's choice?

[MagnaofIllusion]

My choice? I haven't said mine today yet

Your hippie dippie choice to be a tree-hugging Anti-Nuke element of course SpySpy

I mean, since I was asking why LLD's deploy choice was scummy and then followed up with asking him about you ...

[MagnaofIllusion]

Instead, isn't it far more likely that the scum shot the person in {Me, MOI} that had the airbase? Then Nukebringer shoots Ircher, Cephrir thinks "look at this amazing job I did I'll WIFOM the scum" and scum bank shot GIF because things were looking pretty bad for them.

The only way that makes sense is if the Commies still have a Nuke running today. Because a Commie shot into (you, me) means that they KNEW who the Airbase is and I don't see Nukebringer not taking out the Airbase if they didn't have a Nuke in reserve. If they deemed Ircher a big enough threat they could have always Nightkilled him since he wasn't drawing Doc protection over the Cop or Reck. And hell - the fact that they chose him over Reck or GiF says they had a vested interest in keeping all Nukes airborne.

I find it more likely if Cephir didn't stop the kill with GiF that Reck did by blocking LLD.

[MagnaofIllusion]

Would LLD really submit the NK for the scum? She doesn't like to do that. Like seriously I've been on scumteams with her and I know she hates doing that.

Maybe. Scum knew the Town (or Terrorist from their perspective but we know that's not correct) Roleblocker was floating around. I suppose Spiffeh was more Town read than her but until Spiffeh's flip Nukebringer sure wasn't. If the last two members were not super Town read then she could have been elected for whatever reason.

[MagnaofIllusion]

The only scenario I see Cephrir scum here is if he is the scum doctor, decided to target GIF to play around radar, AND the scum night kill was intercepted some other way (either Reck or Airbase).

Agreed. But pending Spyrex tampering with mastin's Nuke we will see soon enough.

[MagnaofIllusion]

Also I got a chuckle out of 4998 seeing mastin almost break her neck going from "MoI is not a real scum read for me" earlier to that post which is classic smearing since I point out she needs to be dead as a doornail.

[MagnaofIllusion]

I suppose it's possible Cephrir is scum here, but it would not at all surprise me if MoI is rejoicing that we have THREE town players being nuked right now because that's exactly what he needs.

And you want to see why mastin needs death? Read this right here and think through the implications.

Mastin is calling me scum rejoicing in three Town being nuked. And yet she has the complete ability to call back that Nuke on Cephir.

If she really thought what she posted in there she's have aborted it to save Town Ceph.

And she doesn't. Instead she hedges saying Ceph still MIGHT be scum but spending all that time calling my post obvious scum posting.

Her words don't match up to her in-game actions.

[MagnaofIllusion]

Gotta get back to work.

Vax, MoI, SpyreX, hiplop.

I want all of them dead. Everyone else is fine by me.

Also a reminder that Nahdia CANNOT make it to endgame with logic like this.

Because the only way that this ends the game for Town is if the scum team is Vax and Spyrex and hiplop is the Terrorist. Which would require Spyrex-Commie to have anticipated mastin's "master" gambit and thought mastin might Nuke a partner. Given that mastin has not scum-read a single scum so far that seems like a longshot.

[MagnaofIllusion]

But she's town... seriously. I'd bet actual cash on it.

Maybe. But not all Town need to be in endgame. I can point to many, many examples of Town who cost Town the game.

Do you agree that group of four players makes sense as containing all three remaining scum?

[MagnaofIllusion]

No, it doesn't make sense. But I want to be lynching/nuking scum here, not town, because I still think we can skip out on endgame entirely.

Then you misunderstand my point of the comment. Lynching her today is not my position. If there comes a point where a Nuke on Town can be spared then it would be a good move to have her be that glowing crater.

[MagnaofIllusion]

Stop acting like I'm a fucking liability when you're reads have been hot garbage all game. Did SAD flip scum? I think not.

[MagnaofIllusion]

So I agree here that peggy is a scum player, and does indeed have a role. That limits the pool down to GI/MoI/Cephrir/SpyreX/Nahdia/LLD. From there, I can say I sincerely doubt Peggy means Nahdia.

Just want to point the obvious for people who don't read mastin's posts - this is so wrong it hurts. None of LLD, myself or GI have a role that can target. That much is abundantly clear even if you don't know which of the missing Roles with myself or GI has.

Yet Mastin is trying to include the three of us as possibilities.

Which is why even if Town mastin's nuke by UT is completely Pro-Town

[MagnaofIllusion]

Ok I'll look at vca tonight hopefully. Can someone step up and help me look at the defenders of ss versus who is alive.

Actually hmm him claiming cop makes me think nad is town cause aim there worth gfmaker is better

Tonight or tomorrow I will get on this.

[MagnaofIllusion]

If I wasn’t waiting for Nukes to land on Vax and mastin to confirm they aren’t Commie or Terrorist I’d probably be voting LLD this second. There is no earthly reason for her as Town who seemed to understand why I delayed our claims to have constantly been badgering Grey about the whole “He knew he wasn’t Sub Nuked” issue. All that accomplished was making her argument look bad (which it was) and specifically make the Sub’s Nuke choice today if they want to eliminate the Airbase fucking simple.

@Grey

– God damn it man why did you let her bait you like that? You know that the entire reason I delayed claiming was to keep the uncertainty about your deploy as cloudy as possible in case the Terrorist truly isn’t paying attention to the thread and missed you obv crumbs yesterday, right?

@Spyspy

– please confirm to me that you didn’t Sabotage UT. I don’t care if you did anyone else at this point but I absolutely need to know that in a number of hours the thread will be spared mastin’s posting.

Did Andy ever positively confirm that the Aircraft Carrier could not block the Commie or Terrorist Nightkills? I haven’t had time to read through all 10 or so pages overnight yet. Because if so I absolutely want to revisit the choice for Nukebringer to kill Ircher with those facts solidified in my mind.

--

At the risk of ~pushing it~ it occurs to me to wonder why my suicide was presented as urgent when we knew ut was setting an alarm. I almost bought into that.

The number 1 person was LLD on that BTW. What are your thoughts on her?

--

I'm trying to be respectful here. I still have plenty of room to reassess especially after the current nukes in the air drop. But please just hear me out. I'm confused by this mindset you seem to have about mafia where everyone who doesn't 100% agree with you needs to die, no matter what. It just doesn't make sense. This game isn't about killing people who don't agree with you, it's about finding scum, something which seems to be second priority to you. From my perspective, your goal seems to be to kill the people you don't like. Normally, I would have trouble seeing any kind of town-motivation in legitimately pushing a multitude of liability kills. Even in the context of this game, I'm seriously struggling with it. If you're town, you have to work with me. If you think I've made an error in analysis or judgement, don't just say I need to die as a liability, explain it to me. Please. I'm not ridiculously stubborn, I will listen to you, and I will work with you.

Well let’s talk. There are several incorrect assumptions in the post. I’m not sure whether that is intentional (scum indication) or just happenstance. So let me address them.

1. My wanting you not to go to endgame is based on you disagreeing with me. That’s far from the truth. The reason I don’t want you in endgame for that post specifically is that is shows to me a complete lack of reflection on the game state from my point of view. You’ve lined up four people who from that post are the only players you think are Commie and Terrorist – Vax, myself, Spyrex and hiplop. From my perspective that is a bad list on its face. Let’s set aside hiplop for a second since you clearly think he’s the terrorist. How do you think teams of Spyrex / me, me / Vax or Vax / Spyrex make sense. There is nothing in your posting that indicates why you think that. And from my own perspective I know I’m Town so you’ve basically called the scum team of Spyrex / Vax. We’ll know whether Vax is Mafia soon enough. Before that can you explain why you think that team pairing makes sense? I don’t see it myself and thus have a hard time believing you honestly thought all four of those players being dead would win the game for Town. And if you didn’t think that when making that list then congratulations you’ve done exactly what you called me out on – asking for kills on other than a scum-read basis.

2. That I think you are Town. This is more implied but the fact remains you spent the early days saying “I should be utility Nuked” over and over. Yet today when I basically say “Utility Nuke her before endgame” your reaction is “OMG WHAT SCUMZORZ” which is not consistent at all. If you were OK being a Utility Nuke before that should not have changed for you as Town. I find that suspect.

3. That my pushing for multiple deaths is not Town. Wrong. Just plain wrong. Given my issues with point 1 and my perception of your play I don’t want you, if you are Town, alive to be part of a decision that might lose the game when Town still has a solid chance. The fact that you have LLD as solid Town in your reads list reinforces my perception for the reasons I addressed above. That may sting your ego and that's unfortunate but I've had career here on MS of dying and watching players make poor decisions in endgame. In this set-up Town has significantly more power to shape endgame while not sacrificing lynches on scum candidates. And that power should absolutely be used.

[MagnaofIllusion]

MOD – I will be V/LA starting at 3pm EDT today until Monday morning as normal. Also activity today may be spotty as I have some unforeseen complications to my regular schedule.

--

The reason for utility nuking me was based on me potentially corrupting GiF's ability to mechsolve the game. GiF is dead. One of his checks is dead. The other of his checks has a nuke in the air headed towards him. There is no good reason left to utility nuke me unless you want to do so purely because you disagree with my reads, which is never something I've been okay with.

How about I think you still stand a chance of being scum? Does that not sit okay with you? Don’t answer that – that’s just to demonstrate you are trying to parse suspicion of you as scummy. I mean the discontinuity with “I think these players could all be scum and if I’m wrong I’ll move on” is painful at this stage. That’s exactly my stance on you and mastin and yet you are OK with yourself ticking off questionable players from the game so you can PoE later but find it distasteful for me. Cognitive Dissonance at work.

And you are incorrect – hiplop does not have a Nuke in the air aimed at him. Just the opposite in fact – he’s got a Nuke in the air aimed at Vaxkiller.

Alright. I can accept there's potential town motivation in it (I still think it's a terrible, arrogant strat) but quite frankly, the scum motivation for pushing such a move is still just as blatantly apparent.

Congratulations on trying to sell something you now admit as being NAI as scummy.

[MagnaofIllusion]

[Day 3, DEFCON 1 - Game Event]

...

[NORAD SYSTEM] ALERT. ALERT. NUCLEAR LAUNCH DETECTED.
[NORAD SYSTEM] Attempting to locate launch site...
[NORAD SYSTEM] Missile tracked to facility XR-843, currently commanded by

Cheetory6

.
[NORAD SYSTEM] Analyzing flight trajectory…
[NORAD SYSTEM] Missile is currently targeting coordinates registered to

hiplop

.
[NORAD SYSTEM] Estimating time until impact...
[NORAD SYSTEM] Warhead will detonate in (expired on 2016-12-11 00:00:35)

I know Cheet is gone but really - before the other two Nukes landed?

Well at least we'll know if all the people absolutely confident in hiplop as Terrorist are correct.

[MagnaofIllusion]

Great so clearly the Sub hasn't tried to fire yet.

[MagnaofIllusion]

If I wasn’t waiting for Nukes to land on Vax and mastin to confirm they aren’t Commie or Terrorist I’d probably be voting LLD this second. All that accomplished was making her argument look bad (which it was) and specifically make the Sub’s Nuke choice today if they want to eliminate the Airbase fucking simple.

Did Andy ever positively confirm that the Aircraft Carrier could not block the Commie or Terrorist Nightkills? I haven’t had time to read through all 10 or so pages overnight yet. Because if so I absolutely want to revisit the choice for Nukebringer to kill Ircher with those facts solidified in my mind.

Just wanted a reminder for why MoI is scum out.

How do you think teams of

Spyrex / me

, me / Vax or Vax / Spyrex make sense.

Well, actually......

But since I know I'm town I can chalk this up you either being scum or just yet another bad Mastin read.

[MagnaofIllusion]

Thanks god ... Sad to see Cheet go but the relief of Vi versus Kats is almost off the chart.

[MagnaofIllusion]

I think that the time is now for {LLD, GreyICE, UT, SpyreX} to start voting. It really should be Ijji Modo at this point, should it not?

No. Still V/LA but voting should absolutely wait until

1. The Terrorist nuke actually hits.
2. I have some time to lay out my thoughts.

Until then ...

[MagnaofIllusion]

So now that I am back from V/LA I’m going to drop my thoughts about every other living player into thread before going back to look over what back and forth I missed.

So without further ado –

Category – TOWN

UT – If I had to put money on a player being Town to win the game (besides myself, duh) this is the slot I chose. He’s not Commie scum given he was a strong counter-wagon to SS scum Day 1 (like Vax). And I don’t get the sense he’d double up his Sub Nuke on PapaZito given the “in the air” Nuke already going Papa’s way. I need to fully review that timeline and when Spyrex claimed the sabotage on mastin but I know UT isn’t stupid. So for the moment he’s Town and if you don’t like it you can suck it.

Category – DOESN’T MATTER MY READ

Cephir – Odds seem favorable he’s getting Nuked in a little bit. Regardless if that’s wrong and GreyICE is the one going up in a mushroom cloud I really don’t care what alignment Cephir is. He isn’t living long as any alignment with that Role. If he’s Town both sides can’t have him living another Night as he can complicate endgame with the Doc protect. As either non-Town alignment the same holds true … the other side can’t have him mucking around with their kills / nukes. So there is no real need work hard to sort him. That said – there is little reason for me to think he’s Commie. I don’t see it making sense that as Commie with the Doc ability he’s immediately throw away the shield from lynch the role gives him by immediately not defending GiF the next Night and catching flak for it.

Category – NOT SERIAL KILLER

LLD – Reck claims Night 2 block on her and has no reason to lie as Town. The Terrorist Sub nuke went off Day 3. She can’t be the Terrorist.

Spyrex – Main reason I have him here is he deploy choice … as the Terrorist he risks pissing of Town and Commies by possibly being able to prevent their Nukes form happening. That’s a disaster in this game where everyone’s deploys are going to come out fairly soon.

Nahdia – Same reason effectively as Spyrex given her choice. Flying solo and asking for Policy Nukage may be a “Ask for it so you don’t get it” kinda gamble but it makes no sense for a Terrorist to go for that Assignment and pre-emptively claim you were going to Day 1. And mastin’s “I chose everything” proves she has it.

Caegory – NOT MAFIA

GreyICE – Night 2 lack of Mafia kill almost certainly proves he’s not Mafia as the missing Commie kill should be his doing. Why I say this – there is no scenario where Nukebringer (and the Equinox head specifically … look at the last posting before he dies .. that’s not Fire) as scum doesn’t eliminate GiF with his LOL-Nuke instead of GiF given they killed him Night 3 unless they knew it would fail. Which points to them suspecting Doc protection (or knowing it with Cephir scum) and knowing their kill failed on Grey not GiF. Now why they Nuked Ircher and not Grey? Hard to say.


Category – EVERYONE ELSE

Vi – If you are here there is no overriding reason I can clear you of either scum alignment. Cheet looked pretty Town but in the back of my mind I have some worry about that his “Spiff you buddying bastard” comment was scum theatre. Also my reading of Vi’s posting since replacement has my gut at “Looking at who can be mislynched” as opposed to game-solving. Could just be an artifact of phone skimming which a full read at a computer should help with. My one hold-up on Commie Vi is that it would require 4/5 scum to have missed deploys or the Scum team specifically choosing to go a minimalist deploy route. Also not sure Cheet would target Fate Night 1. The Spiffeh shot Night 2 however does make sense from Cheet.

If I had to call right now who I think is what?

GreyICE as Serial Killer – the kill on Fate makes sense, his claiming his role in advance of today’s Sub Nuke might indicate he unconsciously wasn’t worried about being Nuke since he controls it. Not overwhelmingly confident. If it isn’t Grey or Cephir (which we find out soon enough) then Vi is pretty much has to be it.

LLD and Nahdia – I’ve been reading LLD as scum since very early on in the game and today’s play doesn’t dissuade me from that. Nahdia has basically been coasting on the “Oh, I’m choosing Counter-Intelligence Policy Nuke me” stance. Both solidly Town-read each other at a time when paranoia about the Serial Killer should be running high which coincidently is also the time Commies absolutely cannot afford to bus. Both have deploys and we already have three Commie Nukes already flipped.

Lastly Nahdia’s “These four are the ones I have issue with” reads is already 0-3 (0-2 for those of you who aren’t me) and I don’t see a LLD – Spyrex Commie team with Spyrex’s saborage on mastin. Them as partners would not care if mastin was going to lolNuke the claimed Nuke-proof. And since I’ve already stated why I thought her group of 4 showed little Town perspective I don’t need to rehash that.

So that’s where I am at right now. Need to read back the weekend to see if that changes my stance.

[MagnaofIllusion]

So catching up on the thread –

We aren’t lynching Vi’s slot today (for reasons made clear by 5344). Not that it really was a likelihood but I wanted it posted right up from that we have to have a successful lynch on some flavor of scum today.

Also LLD’s Self-Vote is something I would expect from her Scum game – it is a pure AtE and WIFOM “why would I do that as scum” move given the timing when it was pretty much assured no lynch was happening while Nukes were airborne.

I have some issues with Vi’s VCA at 5494. Personally looking at those I don’t see how LLD and Nahdia don’t stick out like sore thumbs.

Despite scum reading Nahdia I think 5546 is a very valid point.

--

That's fine. If you honestly think I'm scum, fine. But you keep making reasons why I should die despite my being town. That's scummy to me; you're basically giving yourself an out regardless of my flip. When I flip town, you can just say "well I already said why they needed to die even if they're town". I'm not making justifications for why my bottom four need to die regardless of their alignment, I'm just saying "these are the people who I'm not townreading. I want them dead because I think there's a good chance we find multiple scum in them".

Just wanted to revisit this for a couple of reasons –

1. I should point out that nowhere in my 5012 initial post that Nahdia reacted to did I call her Town who has to die. And even 5021 isn’t outright calling her Town – that’s just me doing exactly what she is claiming in the above – specifically thinking that she’s scum but wanting to make sure that if my read is wrong Town isn’t boned because of it for Nuking her slot.

2. I want Nahdia on record as of right now – for the “finding multiple scum” in her group to be true both Spyrex and myself HAVE to be scum.

@Nahdia]

– do you think both Spyrex and I as scum of whatever flavor still?

if hiplop flips town, I can only assume SpyreX is the terrorist, even though I find that totally baffling. i can't comprehend anyone else nuking Papa Zito there when a nuke was already flying towards him. MAYBE untrod?

See this is the sort of post that makes me think she’s absolutely not game-solving. She expresses doubt that Spyrex would have no reason to Sub Nuke Papa since a Nuke was flying in the air at Papa at the time. Yet that makes no sense given Spyrex knew mastin’s nuke was a dud. So SK Spyrex would know that Papa was living.

And yet Nahdia tries to pass of Untrod as the person who MIGHT have done it when Spyrex would know he wasn’t dying. I agree that it isn’t Spyrex for other reasons but this shows to me Nahdia is not actually thinking about the game and game-state (despite her saying she is “rock solid” on mechanics earlier).

Which lines up with Scum motivated play – look active but not actually be doing the work behind the scenes. I see the backpedal when Spy points it out and the saving throw of “Oh, why would Terrorist chose Sabotage” which is correct. Not convinced.

I realize no one is pressuring me rn (except MoI kinda) but just wanted to point out that unless I'm scum with Cephrir as my partner, taking that huge risk in shooting GiF is some serious meshugaas coming from me. With radar dead I could just let GiF get false checks.

Umm … Gif staying alive points right to you being able to give false checks …

So, just a recap. Whoever is the SK shot a nuke at Papa Zito while a nuke was already in the air towards him, and the only person who knew it was going to fail was SpyreX (and if he's Russian, any partners ofc)

It still follows that whoever make that shot is either SpyreX themselves or severely lacking attention to detail. That's why I thought strongly it was hiplop but apparently not.
Also, it being a weekend when the sub shot off, I'm thinking MoI is clear of being the terrorist unless Andrius allowed him to queue up a sub shot for midway through the weekend.

Um …

1. Whoever shot the Sub at Papa was the Serial Killer so it is irrelevant if Spyrex as scum told his partners since they can’t be the Serial Killer by default.
2. Andy would totally allow for a queued up Sub Shot and I could do it from my phone so the reason for clearly me here is very weak.

--

1a) Is anyone actually questioning Nahdia-Town?
1b) Is anyone thinking of questioning Nahdia-Town in the future?

Yes times two.

--

I felt and still feel Cephrir MUST DIE for his actions is letting GIF die, and wanted to force a situation where if town Cephrir truly felt conviction in his Mastin stance, he'd swallow the pill, confirm himself as town, and watch Mastin die in a nuclear glow.

Let me point out again why this is a Scum perspective post? As I have said before Cephir is going to die Commie / SK or not. That role is too dangerous to the other side at this stage even without the Sub Nuke possibly resolving the issue.

Yet LLD absolutely wanted there to be no chance of a Night protect if she was wrong (and we see soon enough, a Town Ceph flip and this is pretty damn strong) and Cephir was Town by pressuring him to suicide.

They don't take 2 nukes and leave themselves open to jsut about every feasable form of random death possible in the game.

So remind me – were you a proponent of Hiplop SK at any point?

--

I'm having trouble figuring out who LLD's scumbuddy would be. You (Cheetory) seem out based on the replace out interactions, Nahdia seems out, Cephrir seems out, that leaves MOI, UT and Spy? And I think both MOI (failsafe-scum? Plus townread?) and UT (counterwagon to scum, although he has been generally not amazing) are not likely and that's leaving SpyreX by POE.

Um there is no way Spyrex Commie sabotages mastin who has been publicly claiming to want LLD radioactive if LLD is his partner given he HAD to know she is Nuke-proof.

So your PoE is bad here …

[MagnaofIllusion]

I told hiplop to nuke Vaxkiller and he did

So you directed Town to nuke someone who looked very much like a Town player from the Day 1 wagons as opposed to your SK candidate GreyICE who can only be nuked or lynched huh?

Why is that again?

2) Nahdia;s fatalistic approach to this game has been town since GIF died on Night 3 and let me explain to you why.

If Nahdia truly was scum who picked CounterIntelligence (after claiming she would do it in thread at Defcon 5), she had to know she has a limited shelf life. There's no way she can reasonably expect, with people saing "Nahdia must die" every day, she'll live too long.

Lol. So your reasoning that she’s Town is because she’s doomed to die early if she was scum. Is that it? Because that sort of flies in the face of the fact that I called for her to be killed before endgame and she threw a literal temper tantrum. Go back and look. Her reaction basically was “OMG YOU ARE SCUM AND YOUR READS ARE GARBAGE”. Not fatalistic at all.

So with the option to try and kill the doctor on the table why didn't a Nahdia scum team frame me, and let GiF live one more day?

FURTHER, if you think that Nahdia and I are scum TOGETHER, WHY WOULDN'T WE LET NAHDIA USE HER ABILITY TO LAWYER ME AND THEN KILL GIF AFTER?

Let’s see – killing the Doc requires scum to take a shot between myself and Ceph (assuming that Ceph is Town for the sake of argument) with the downside of a mistake handing the FailSafe a free unblockable kill. Don’t let that little fact escape you ..

Also GiF living WITHOUT a missing Mafia kill means any Innocent she produces is put under WIFOM scrutiny. Nahdia herself said that was the only play for scum at that stage before Night so I’m not sure why you think that is such a Town point.

And that of course assumes that GiF doesn’t target Nahdia herself … can’t protect herself and a partner at the same time.

But yep .. keep on keepin on with those conclusions that ignore the gaping holes in your logic.

[MagnaofIllusion]

Whatever, MoI is making me not give a fuck anymore.

I'm back to hoping we lose.

And now we again get AtE ...

[MagnaofIllusion]

Cephrir, Russian (Battleship), was Nuked D4.

Just a note to say that with a Cephir Commie flip my reads are completely in flux and as such I will reset tomorrow ...

[MagnaofIllusion]

Can we like wait for 24 hours? Just because a Ceph flip gives us breathing room doesn't mean we need to waste it.

[MagnaofIllusion]

To borrow a word from Moai, GreyICE being at L-1 is noted.

[MagnaofIllusion]

...okay it's like two hours later and I'm looking at this now and this... doesn't resolve anything about UT. It only really works if the Terrorist knew that Mastin's nuke was going to fail...

...doesn't... it...?

The other theory is that the Terrorist wasn't paying close enough attention to the thread and didn't know the Nuke on Papa was launched.

[MagnaofIllusion]

So first I want to look at the timing of the Sub Nuke on Papa as opposed to when Spyrex first claimed to have sabotaged Mastin.

3720 is the announcement of the Terrorist Nuke. Andrius’s previous past was 3701. That’s basically a 9 hour window if you consider the Terrorist Nuke was not set to go off at a specific point.

PZ claimed Sub at 3695 after mastin Nuked PZ at 3487. Much later than I remember and means the window between when Papa confirmed he was the Sub and the sub launched was at most 12 hour period.

So even if you accept a Queued up Sub Shot by the Terrorist the window between PZ claiming sub and the Sub’s official firing is at most 12 hours. That’s the window in which it makes any sense for the Terrorist to have actively nuked PZ even if you think they were not paying attention.

Spyrex didn’t officially claim to have sabotaged Mastin until after all this at 4009.

@Spyrex

- you can show me if I’m wrong on this …

I don’t think anyone left alive is incompetent enough to have fired of a Terrorist Sub at a target who is already slated for Nuclear Death due to not paying attention. Which means very probably that they felt PZ was enough of a threat to them that it was worth wasting their Defcon3 stealth nuke in case PZ had been Doc protected.

Remaining Living Players that PZ mentioned as scum or “needing death” –

Nahdia – 428, 440, 499, 516, 772, 3303, 3324,3403
UT – 2303

So everyone can feel free to check my time-line on this and debate my analysis but this is quite surprising to me.

And for the record - Nahdia did post at least once during that 12 hour window (3715).

[MagnaofIllusion]

MoI, has your opinion changed about GreyICE being the SK?

Not completely. My hurdle for it is the timeline. Why does GreyICE fire that Sub Nuke BEFORE Spyrex claims to have sabotaged mastin? If he felt PZ was a threat why not simply hit him with the Terrorist Nightkill.

I mean the kill on Reck suggests he was more worried about not being able to Sub Nuke if blocked but why not Sub Nuke Reck in that case? I’m having a hard time reconciling how that Nuke went off given what I just dug up.

Do you disagree with my timeline or analysis?

--

Ah yes, my brilliant master plan as terrorist; pick the framer/lawyer role, explicitly say im picking it, acknowledge early on that there are scenarios under which i will need to be utility nuked. A role that will bait the ACC, which at the time I thought stopped the kill. Yes, brilliant. Man I'm good at mafia.

This is pretty bad as responses go.

1. You were not going to get ACCed for your claimed role. The role you should have been worried about was Radar and wham – Terrorist doesn’t care as the Radar doesn’t see the Nightkill, you can quietly sit and not CounterIntelligence like a Good Little Townie, and begging for a Utility Nuke seems to served you well to not get nuked doesn’t it. Also – you aren’t going to get targeted by the Commies as your claimed role is no threat to them.

--

it's almost like the terrorist would want to eliminate possibilities of being nightkilled or nuked. can't imagine why that would be.

I don't understand, are you advocating that Nahdia is the terrorist, or are you saying it's a hamhanded framejob?

Fact remains that besides PZ had a hard on for Nahdia and probably had her next after Red Coyote if he survived. And let’s be real – what Nuke is the most dangerous to the Terrorist? The one that can’t be easily intercepted and doesn’t immediately say “This is my target”.

[MagnaofIllusion]

Also of some import – the last scum totally doesn’t want the Serial Killer lynched today. Because that puts a massive, massive dent in the Commie’s chances of winning tomorrow.

--

This means GreyICE is clear of being Russian btw. Unless you think Russia no killed. Which I mean, maybe.

No way on God’s green Earth Commies no-killed that Night after losing Something Day 1.

Grey is certified not Commie.

--

So you think i tried to convince my partner to kill himself on a nuke that wouldnt hurt and then have him climb up my ass so hard my response got a be civil from the mod.

You do know this is like pure crap, right? Ceph was not killing himself regardless given he was Commie so your “Oh Ceph, do the right thing and suicide” easily could be posturing.

--

@MoI: Could you explain the whole doubled-nukes thing about UT? It's been said a few times and I didn't understand it any of those times.

You’ll have to be more specific if you want me to explain this since I’m not clear on what “Double Nukes” means.

If it means “Can the Serial Killer not have a Silo and the Sub” then my answer is that theory is out the door.

the vote counts basically show the scum team imploding from day 1 so idgaf about counterwagons plus he could be Terrorist+butts.

Explain this because I very much disagree. Given only member of the scum team who got ANY pressure was Something I have a hard time getting into a head space that “VCA shows an imploding team”.

[MagnaofIllusion]

Untrod Tripod [7] -

mastina

,

Papa Zito

, Cheetory6,

Ser Arthur Dayne, xRECKONERx

,

Nukebringer

, SpyreX

Something_Smart

[7] -

GuyInFreezer,

Untrod Tripod,

RedCoyote

,

Cephrir

,

Accountant, MagnaofIllusion

,

Spiffeh

Vaxkiller

[3] - GreyICE, Lady Lambdadelta,

Fate

Ircher

[2] -

McMenno, ErrantParabola

McMenno

[1] -

Ircher

GuyInFreezer

[1] -

Something_Smart

SpyreX [1] -

Vaxkiller

Not Voting [2] -

hiplop

, Nahdia


Untrod Tripod [8] -

mastina, Papa Zito

, Cheetory6,

Ser Arthur Dayne, xRECKONERx

,

Nukebringe

, SpyreX,

Fate

Something_Smart

[7] -

GuyInFreezer

, Untrod Tripod,

RedCoyote

,

Cephrir

, Accountant, MagnaofIllusion,

Spiffeh

Vaxkiller

[1] - GreyICE

Ircher

[2] -

McMenno, ErrantParabola

McMenno

[1] -

Ircher

GuyInFreezer

[1] -

Something_Smart

SpyreX [1] -

Vaxkiller

mastina

[1] - Lady Lambdadelta

Not Voting [2] -

hiplop

, Nahdia

Untrod Tripod [5] -

mastina

, Cheetory6,

Ser Arthur Dayne

,

Nukebringer

,

Fate

mastina

[5] - Lady Lambdadelta, SpyreX,

Papa Zito, GuyInFreezer

, Untrod Tripod

Something_Smart

[5] -

RedCoyote

,

Cephrir,

Accountant, MagnaofIllusion

,

Spiffeh

Ircher

[2] -

McMenno, ErrantParabola

Vaxkiller

[1] - GreyICE

McMenno

[1] -

Ircher

GuyInFreezer

[1] -

Something_Smart

SpyreX [1] -

Vaxkiller

Not Voting [3] -

hiplop

, Nahdia,

xRECKONERx

Something_Smart

[8] -

RedCoyote

,

Cephrir

,

Accountant, MagnaofIllusion

,

spiffeh

, Untrod Tripod,

GuyInFreezer

,

Nukebringer

Untrod Tripod [4] -

mastina

, Cheetory6,

Ser Arthur Dayne, Fate

mastina

[3] - Lady Lambdadelta, SpyreX,

Papa Zito

Ircher

[2] -

McMenno, ErrantParabola

Vaxkiller [

1] - GreyICE

McMenno

[1] -

Ircher

GuyInFreezer

[1] -

Something_Smart

SpyreX [1] -

Vaxkiller

Not Voting [3] -

hiplop,

Nahdia,

xRECKONERx

See looking at these four successive Vote Counts I have a real hard time seeing Untrod as scum.

For that to be the case scum had to have dueling wagons on them, had a window where unpopular Town mastin is tied with both of them, and chosen to have broken to a quad bus on Something Smart as opposed to any scum landing on mastin.

Not seeing that.

However Untrod as Town (or specifically not Commie) has me seeing Cheet and Spyrex in places I would totally expect a partner to be.

[MagnaofIllusion]

So at this point here we are. I would feel completely great if we lynch the Serial Killer today as I think the last Russian is either Vi or Spyrex and eliminating two additional kills would basically lock-down the Commie.

So I’m pretty much down to GreyICE or Nahdia as the Serial Killer. UT is an outside shot and the Communists absolutely can’t allow him and his two Nukes to live til tomorrow if that is the case. Everyone else doesn’t make sense. So my vote needs to land on either Grey or Nahdia.

Grey is a high risk high reward lynch. If he is the Serial Killer then game is locked. If he’s not then I’ve just snuffed the Town player that the Sub and Vi (if she is Commie) has to expend a Nuke on tomorrow.

VOTE: Grey

Doing this for five reasons.

1. Grey’s deploy does make sense for a SK.
2. Fate N1 kill does make sense.
3. Vi refusing to hammer combined with my Vi Commie read.
4. Nobody is going to hang Nahdia with me.
5. Grey hasn't bothered to even campaign to me. I think Town Grey would likely do so.

If I’m wrong I’m sure I will hear all about it in the Dead Thread and post-game. Personally I can deal if that is the case.

GreyICE SK means that regardless who dies tonight Vi should be lynched immediately tomorrow.
GreyICE Town means that I was probably correct on Nahdia.

--

@Moai 6012: Protecting PZ over the Cop? When evidence strongly pointed to a failed kill anyway, therefore the Doc protection wouldn't apply? I don't think the intentional double-up theory holds.

See this is the sort of post that tips me towards you as Commie scum. The whole point of the theory is that the ONLY reason that I can see for that Sub Nuke to be fired in the circumstance it was is for the Terrorist to find PZ such a direct threat that they risked potentially wasting a Nuke on the off chance that PZ had draw protection to justify a firing on a target already “slated” for death. I can’t see any reason otherwise they didn’t bide their time and see the result of mastin’s Nuke.

You aren’t arguing the time frame or facts about claims and have gone straight to “drew a protection” which isn’t even a point I was making. I don’t think PZ drew a protection – the Sub Nuke only makes sense if Terrorist sees him as such a direct threat that they want PZ dead even if he drew protection. Dayplay says that points straight at Nahdia. No other Terrorist should feel that threatened.

I mean it’s possible that Sub Nuke was just derp and yolo stupid. Would not be the first time. But the fact you are buddying up to Nahdia and still not hammering Grey just stinks of Commie.

Looking at the scum in isolation and also looking at the vote counts I got the distinct impression that they were all after each other. Except Cephrir who didn't want to attack anyone ever.

I find the idea of lynching someone out of {LLD, UT, SpyreX} to be incredibly attractive for this reason.

LLD is 100% proven not to be the Serial Killer. Town wants the Serial Killer dead today. The fact that you even include her in your Today’s Lynch pool is scummy as fuck.

[MagnaofIllusion]

Bring on the flip Andy - I want to see if Town is doomed or winning ...

[MagnaofIllusion]

NUKE: Vi

[MagnaofIllusion]

Thanks for the game Andrius. A return of Defcon was a nice blast from the past.

The one suggestion I would have for your suggested sequal - have every possible interaction between roles hammered out BEFORE the game is started. There seemed to be some confusion regarding what my Failsafe response could or could not overcome (Interception mode of a Silo doesn't make sense to me, Fallout Shelter does) in the Dead PT. Also think removing the Terrorist makes sense since that adds significant swing to the set-up.

Glad Town was put in a position to win regardless of the outcome.

I don't regret the Vi Nuke. Spiffeh and company had already shown that they'd take any action possible towards a Commie partner so Spiffeh's buddying of Cheet didn't remove suspicion. Vi also supplied twinges with the constant "MoI I can't parse ..." comments. When it became clear I couldn't nuke LLD with my Failsafe I had to remove the other more dangerous if Commie dayplayer.

I also agree with Spy - I think they day could have gone much differently if LLD hadn't been on the attack and calling everyone who looked her way effectively stupid or scum. That poisoned the atmosphere and made it easy for UT to dodge pressure on his "Silo in Defensive" play and look more reasonable.

Also glad that know the proper play is to always assume Spiffeh, Ceph and UT are bussing if they vote for scum. I'll be linkiing this game every time one of them ever says "Why would I vote my partner in that situation".