DEFCON Mafia 4.0 - СЛАВА РОССИИ МАТЕРИ

[Untrod Tripod]

thanks UT i looked but didnt see that bless u.

anyway, that being the case, do u deny it's not optimal to let Something_Sultry live a day so he can get a result? from mastina's claim, we know SOMEONE has to have Espionage so if he's scum he'll be counterclaimed tomorrow.

unless, you know, he's scum who drafted espionage. which i guess is totally possible. idk.

I think SS is really, really, really transparently scum

And, frankly the fact that Martina sees it the opposite should be proof to you that I'm right

[GuyInFreezer]

(Yes this is me saying that I don't buy his claim either.)

[mastina]

Something_Smart is probably gonna flip town.

No shit, sherlock.

But it's post like these which make you be in my suspect pool. Not quite egregious enough to land you in the scum pool, but a useless post all the same. If you think Something_smart is going to flip town, and you yourself are town, then it's your obligation to fight against his lynch and search for a viable alternative--you're voting UT, sure, but why aren't you fighting for that lynch? Why aren't you pressing points against him? And why aren't you mounting a defense on S_S's behalf beyond "He's probably town"? Reasons and whatnot.

[Andrius]

12) This is a full reveal game. Upon death, that player’s alignment and any abilities they had will be flipped.

my guess would be yes

This is correct - a player's alignment and Silo/Troops would be included in a flip upon death.

The Terrorist will flip with both of their abilities.

[GuyInFreezer]

Like, I've never had the scumread this confident since, like, my first game.

And I also lynched the claimed cop there, which was scum.

[mastina]

When cornered, the scum will often fakeclaim to draw out their natural enemy the cop.

Yeah the problem with that is there's two people who put cop as their first draft and didn't get it, already.

So SOMEONE had to have gotten it as their first pick.

Furthermore: there are TWO roles which can reveal Something_smart as a liar, and unless you're saying:
-Scum put Cop first (okay, possible)
-A second scum put Fighter first (okay, I can see it)
-A third scum put Radar first (basically the scumteam purposefully denying the town its investigatives)...

...Then the simple fact is, the town can and will discover if Something_smart is lying.
You also have to keep in mind:

Unless the scum have EITHER the roleblocker OR the doctor, they can't stop follow-the-cop. So claiming to out the cop loses them a scummate...and gives them nothing. Literally, NOTHING. Because they cannot. kill. or. stop. the cop who counterclaims.

In other words: Something_smart either is scum and HAS the cop...
...Or Something_smart is town, and has the cop.

So the solution is obvious: we don't fucking lynch the cop and we force scum to reveal they either have the roleblock or the doctor at night. Something_smart claims to be blocked? Either he's scum and the scumteam has the block and chose not to use it (because a town roleblocker will counterclaim S_S), or he's town and the scumteam has the roleblocker and used it on him. (So in short, the results tonight--REGARDLESS OF SOMETHING_SMART'S ALIGNMENT--will tell us which alignment holds the roleblock.)

Something_smart is shot by the terrorist and not protected? Scumteam has the doc.
Something_smart lives and produces results?
Either he is scum guessing (remember, the scum get useless results--EVERYONE they investigate has an alignment different from their own, so he cannot catch the terrorist if he is scum), which we can potentially catch him in a lie about, or he is town producing real results.

So regardless of what your thoughts are on Something_smart (though at this stage it's pretty obvious he's town), the optimal town play is to let. him. live.

[Untrod Tripod]

Nah optimal town play is lynch the obvious fakeclaiming scum

But it's cool, you're a useful barometer for what the opposite of good play is

[mastina]

are you people seriously going to let this scumbag coast on a bullshit cop claim

Is anyone seriously going to let ^this scumbag coast on bullshit posting that amounts to nothing but whining about how he's being run up?

[Untrod Tripod]

The last thing I've been doing is whining about being voted

I've been trying to get actual scum lynched.

[GuyInFreezer]

Mastina let's have a fun here.

If UT's town, your vote proxies to mine for rest of the game.
If SS's scum, your nuke proxies to mine for rest of the game.

I will gladly offer the opposite.

[mastina]

unless, you know, he's scum who drafted espionage. which i guess is totally possible. idk.

It's really simple math. The scenarios you have:
-Something_smart is scum, without espionage: scum were hoping to draw the cop out.
*If the scumteam has neither the roleblocker nor the doctor, this is explicitly suicidal. A cop counterclaiming would receive doctor protection, and we could simply use follow-the-cop.
*If the scumteam has the doctor, then unless the terrorist kills the cop, the cop still gets at least one valid result.
*If the scumteam has the roleblocker, well, we know the roleblocker is in the hands of scum and we can work on finding it especially if radar/fighter are in town hands. (Finding a player visiting the cop = finding the roleblocker or the doctor. Finding a player with the roleblock = finding scum.)
This scenario is pretty unlikely.

-Something_smart is scum, with espionage:
*If the scumteam has the roleblocker, they cannot use it at night. This frees up all other town PRs, to allow for Something_smart to claim roleblocked.
*If the scumteam does not have the roleblocker, then Something_smart must "produce" results, results which mind you are a GUESS because a scum cop cannot locate the terrorist. He either busses scum, or risks getting caught on a false innocent.
I find this scenario less likely, but oh well.

-Something_smart is town with espionage:
*If the scumteam has the roleblocker, they use it on Something_smart. This frees up the other town PRs, and tells us information about the scumteam.
*If the scumteam does not have the roleblocker, but has the doctor, Something_smart gets one valid investigation (unless the terrorist is bold), and then is killed by the scumteam. Not a bad deal for a player so widely scumread.
*If the scumteam has neither the roleblocker nor the doctor, this game becomes :easymode: as we engage follow-the-cop. Either Nahdia is town with counterintelligence meaning all results are fully 100% accurate, or Nahdia is scum and any tampered with investigation reveals to us this fact.

No matter which, the optimal path is letting Something_smart live.

[mastina]

The last thing I've been doing is whining about being voted

Uh-huh.
If I wasn't feeling like a lazy ass right now, I'd show why this is bullshit.

Since I am, I'll just leave the work to someone like SAD because yeah. This is bullshit.

[mastina]

Mastina let's have a fun here. If UT's town, your vote proxies to mine for rest of the game. bIf SS's scum, your nuke proxies to mine for rest of the game.

Yeah fuck that shit.

Not only is this a game DEFINED by individualism (meaning fuck your idea of me sheeping anyone ever), but ALSO fuck the idea of following someone who has a higher-than-standard (we're talking like 60% compared to a default of 50%--not extremely over, but enough to be more than just a little past null) chance of being scum themselves.

If you're scum you already know the results of this lynch.

And while there's a good 80-90% chance UT is scum (and basically a 95% chance Something_smart is town), you are now the SECOND player to have given me reason to maybe suspect the opposite. Your posts reek of foreknowledge.

So FUCK no, not dealing with your shit.

[mastina]

Correction: THIRD.
Ircher did with both lynches.
Nahdia did with Something_smart.
And GIF now has done, mainly with UT but partially also Something_smart. (Albeit opposite to Nahdia, so yes those two would be mutually exclusive.)

[Untrod Tripod]

Things keep making me question my reads, but I will ignore then because I have no brain and I must trash

[Nahdia]

good job excusing yourself from having development in your reads.

[GuyInFreezer]

I managed to shake mastina's read with total of one post.

I'm so good at this game.

[Vaxkiller]

Okay tonight we need the Fighter to target Something Special.

Also prob should guide the cop investigation via like 3 options that Something Special picks out of.

And need the Radar to target him also.

Nahdia needs to not use her role.

I doubt all of Something Special/Nahdia/Radar/Fighter are scum.

If he's scum with the actual role (cop), then that will reveal itself in time.

If he's scum without the role and looking to bait out the actual cop, that will reveal itself in time,

If he's town and the cop, that will reveal itself in time.

I actually like this.

Lets wait a day on SS

VOTE: UT

[GreyICE]

So SS is scum.

That's nice to see.

[GreyICE]

Although who here is like "it's 90% likely this cop claim is complete bullshit, let's switch to the other leading wagon - I bet that was on scum too!"

Actually no seriously who thinks that. Can you explain your line of reasoning?

[Cephrir]

of course he is

pedit: you're right; i don't think the other leading wagon is especially likely to be on scum. what am i supposed to do about it? it really doesn't seem possible to start another wagon right now

then again, thinking that makes it true

[Cephrir]

i want to just lynch SS anyway, does that make me a bad mafia player?

[Untrod Tripod]

...so why aren't you voting him?

[GreyICE]

Like honestly. There's a possibility of a cop+doctor in this setup. Do you think scum bid on counterintelligence? Hint: Nadia claimed it in about the first post of the game. WHAT DO YOU THINK THEY BID ON INSTEAD?

Do I have to paint people a picture? This is PYP take 2 except I'm town here.

[GreyICE]

Also is anyone impressed that both of the day 1 wagons were derailed by claim in a small town setup?