Mini Normal 1873 (Game Over)

[ThinkBig]

1. shannon

3. TheRealGin-N-Tonic

5. Pepchoninga
6. Lexa

8. ThinkBig

10. Garmr

13. PranaDevil

Lexa, pep, and shannon are the only real possible scumspects left. Despite our back and forth yesterday, I do think you're town and I do think you were evaluating the position from a town PoV

[ThinkBig]

@Garmr, would you mind claiming?

[Garmr]

@Garmr, would you mind claiming?

vanilla town.

[ThinkBig]

Claim List

1. shannon - No claim
3. TheRealGin-N-Tonic - JOAT (1-shot cop, 1-shot gunsmith, 1-shot neapolitan)
5. Pepchoninga - No claim
6. Lexa - Vanilla (found to be false by neapolitan)
8. ThinkBig - Vanilla
10. Garmr - Vanilla


13. PranaDevil

[ThinkBig]

Claim List

1. shannon - No claim
3. TheRealGin-N-Tonic - JOAT (1-shot cop, 1-shot gunsmith, 1-shot neapolitan)
5. Pepchoninga - No claim
6. Lexa - Vanilla (found to be false by neapolitan)
8. ThinkBig - Vanilla
10. Garmr - Vanilla
13. PranaDevil - No claim

EBWOP

I think it is time for a mass claim. I especially want to hear from Lexa.

[PranaDevil]

No mass claim for Christ's sake. Waiting to get at the computer to do a type up (had started yesterday then had to collapse due to tiredness), but checking on the phone, a mass claim would just gove scum better direction in future night phases. If you have solid information like Gin yesterday, go for it, otherwise stay quiet.

The exception is obviously Lexa who has some questions to be answering obviously.

[Lexa]

@Lexa, why did you lie about being VT and why do you TR Shannon?

Claiming roleblocker (All Alone --> Pepchoninga --> Garmr). As far as I was concerned Alisae's claim was blatantly faked and designed to try and direct pressure away from him, I wasn't about to give (what I thought was) the scum team free information. Didn't expect a town to lie about their role so many times, though. Aimed my roleblock at my strongest scum reads n1 and n2 and then at Garmr n3 who I had concerns about "quitting but not really" as scum to avoid targeting given he'd been seen as more suspicious near the end of the day.

Town read on shannon was primarily based on their posting motivations (ref page 933 in my iso), their posts seemed almost exclusively town motivated from day 1 and in particular I didn't see any reason they would post the voting associations is 637 as they did. I haven't noticed anything since my catchup post that really enforces that position though, they've fallen a bit under my radar probably due to the short days and I'm thinking I'll have to take a closer look at them tomorrow. @anyone who's played with her, is she capable to pull of a deep-cover scum game like this?

[PranaDevil]

Scrapped my original writing, in my sleepless state even I couldn't work out what i was saying, and the Lexa stuff brings to light some other stuff.

First off, I'm happy to view Gin and TB as confirmed town. My reasoning for this is that Gin could only be lying if BBT was scum. Otherwise Gin would have been scum praying BBT wasn't a vig. As BBT was vanilla town, Gin is town for certain, which means TB is as well, so look at these guys only to see why they're being kept alive, as I'm confused.

That leaves:
Lexa, Myself, shannon, Pep and Garmr

This is where focus has to be for the remainder of the game.

This is where I want to do vote analysis of the lynches.

Day 1:

karnos

(scum)
Garmr,

XnadrojX

,

BlueBloodedToffee

, PranaDevil,

All Alone

, shannon,

ThinkBig

We know Jordan, BBT, AA and TB are town, which leaves:
Garmr, Myself, shannon

I'm going to be certain that someone was bussing to attempt to make sure they got town points, so one of those three is scum.

Day 2:

LQ

(town)
Garmr,

All Alone

,

Alisae

, shannon,

TheRealGin-N-Tonic

,

BlueBloodedToffee

We know AA, Alisae, Gin and BBT are town, which leaves:
Garmr, shannon

I'm not accepting there was no scum on this wagon either, which means combined with day 1, one of these two is scum, for certain. That wagon took off way too quick for scum not to be aiding it.

Day 3:

Alisae

(town)
PranaDevil,

BlueBloodedToffee

,

ThinkBig

, Lexa,

TheRealGin-N-Tonic

Again, known town are BBT, TB and Gin, leaving:
Myself, Lexa

Based on Gin's response from his check of Lexa, I'm more than happy to accept Lexa scum on this (I'm more than happy to accept that to anyone else this would be me wanting to lynch not-me, but Gin's investigation result should help confirm this)

So the most likely scum comes down to:

one of Garmr/shannon thanks to day 1 and 2
one of me/Lexa thanks to day 3

Lynch among this pool and we win.

Also, I'm not voting until Pep posts today, I don't want a lynch before he posts, so I refuse to place a vote until he does for fear of another quick lynch. But for all intents and purposes, based on the fact it's clearly between me and Lexa from day 3, and Gin's investigation, my vote is on Lexa. However for obvious reasons I could accept a lynch of shannon or Garmr. But to me, Lexa is more confirmed scum than the 50/50 chance of Garmr/shannon.

[Garmr]

@Lexa, why did you lie about being VT and why do you TR Shannon?

Claiming roleblocker (All Alone --> Pepchoninga --> Garmr). As far as I was concerned Alisae's claim was blatantly faked and designed to try and direct pressure away from him, I wasn't about to give (what I thought was) the scum team free information. Didn't expect a town to lie about their role so many times, though. Aimed my roleblock at my strongest scum reads n1 and n2 and then at Garmr n3 who I had concerns about "quitting but not really" as scum to avoid targeting given he'd been seen as more suspicious near the end of the day.

Town read on shannon was primarily based on their posting motivations (ref page 933 in my iso), their posts seemed almost exclusively town motivated from day 1 and in particular I didn't see any reason they would post the voting associations is 637 as they did. I haven't noticed anything since my catchup post that really enforces that position though, they've fallen a bit under my radar probably due to the short days and I'm thinking I'll have to take a closer look at them tomorrow. @anyone who's played with her, is she capable to pull of a deep-cover scum game like this?

Role blocker in this set up is pretty much a scum claim.

VOTE: lexa

[Garmr]

Scrapped my original writing, in my sleepless state even I couldn't work out what i was saying, and the Lexa stuff brings to light some other stuff.

First off, I'm happy to view Gin and TB as confirmed town. My reasoning for this is that Gin could only be lying if BBT was scum. Otherwise Gin would have been scum praying BBT wasn't a vig. As BBT was vanilla town, Gin is town for certain, which means TB is as well, so look at these guys only to see why they're being kept alive, as I'm confused.

That leaves:
Lexa, Myself, shannon, Pep and Garmr

This is where focus has to be for the remainder of the game.

This is where I want to do vote analysis of the lynches.

Day 1:

karnos

(scum)
Garmr,

XnadrojX

,

BlueBloodedToffee

, PranaDevil,

All Alone

, shannon,

ThinkBig

We know Jordan, BBT, AA and TB are town, which leaves:
Garmr, Myself, shannon

I'm going to be certain that someone was bussing to attempt to make sure they got town points, so one of those three is scum.

Day 2:

LQ

(town)
Garmr,

All Alone

,

Alisae

, shannon,

TheRealGin-N-Tonic

,

BlueBloodedToffee

We know AA, Alisae, Gin and BBT are town, which leaves:
Garmr, shannon

I'm not accepting there was no scum on this wagon either, which means combined with day 1, one of these two is scum, for certain. That wagon took off way too quick for scum not to be aiding it.

Day 3:

Alisae

(town)
PranaDevil,

BlueBloodedToffee

,

ThinkBig

, Lexa,

TheRealGin-N-Tonic

Again, known town are BBT, TB and Gin, leaving:
Myself, Lexa

Based on Gin's response from his check of Lexa, I'm more than happy to accept Lexa scum on this (I'm more than happy to accept that to anyone else this would be me wanting to lynch not-me, but Gin's investigation result should help confirm this)

So the most likely scum comes down to:

one of Garmr/shannon thanks to day 1 and 2
one of me/Lexa thanks to day 3

Lynch among this pool and we win.

Also, I'm not voting until Pep posts today, I don't want a lynch before he posts, so I refuse to place a vote until he does for fear of another quick lynch. But for all intents and purposes, based on the fact it's clearly between me and Lexa from day 3, and Gin's investigation, my vote is on Lexa. However for obvious reasons I could accept a lynch of shannon or Garmr. But to me, Lexa is more confirmed scum than the 50/50 chance of Garmr/shannon.

I can agree with a majority of this logic. But it ignores the possibilty of pep being scum despite him not being here.

[shannon]

Holy shit no more votes. Can't believe you guys lynched yesterday and I didn't even get to post.

BRB checking what I did last night. I'm going to claim x

[shannon]

I am (was!) a town JOAT.

N1 I jailkept Think Big
N2 I doctored Gin and Tonic
N3 I bodyguarded Gin and Tonic

[PranaDevil]

I agree Pep-scum is a possibility, though at that point it doesn't ignore the fact scum were definitely on lynches day 1 and day 2, as one lynch I could somewhat accept at a push, but not normally this early, and at that point we would then be looking more at Myself, you (Garmr) and shannon, while ignoring Lexa who wasn't on either of the first two wagons. As I don't believe scum wouldn't bus their buddy, even if just the one of them. So one of us three must be scum.

That means if Pep is scum, Lexa likely isn't, which I don't feel matches up, and in fairness, I don't feel you do either as you've voted Lexa yourself. Meaning you would be of the opinion of a potential Lexa/Pep scum team? I still don't believe that in two lynches scum weren't on either, which wouldn't match up with Lexa/Pep as a team.

In fact... Pep scum would mean that at least one lynch happened without scum on it. Of us other four, day 1 had no Lexa, day 2 had no Lexa or myself, and day 3 had no shannon or Garmr. I still don't feel that fits. I'll accept it's not solid evidence that Pep can't be scum, but with karnos' actions it was easy for scum to bus him. In fact arguing for the three people on his wagon.

Garmr could have been bussing, then karnos imploded at which point it was impossible to get off before the wagon picked up steam.

Myself and shannon could be argued were hopping on when it picked up steam, despite us both heavily pushing him as well.

So I'd say all three of us could be on the wagon with possible scum motives behind it, the only knowledge all three of us have are our roles which we need to convince others of.

Day 2 was just Garmr and shannon that aren't flipped town or confirmed town at this stage, and that lynch was so quick I'm 100% scum was on it, so something is up there

Day 3 was myself and Lexa, and I again think scum were on here, so eliminating myself (solely for myself, not for others) means I deduce it must be Lexa. If any wagon had no scum on it I would argue it would be this one as Alisae was so scummy it would be easy for scum to avoid ad let the lynch happen naturally. However the recent Lexa stuff stops that I feel.

Speaking of which, I'd also like Garmr to explain the reasoning behind Roleblocker being a scum claim, I have a theory, but I want to see if it matches up with mine.

[PranaDevil]

Hold on... another JOAT claim, AND a roleblocker claim.... so that's three JOATs in the wild (well, 2 alive now)... I'm not buying all these claims. As i said before, another JOAT claim imbalances this game, and it's very easy on day 4 to say "yeah, I did these things and these people are still alive".

It doesn't change my statement though.

Scum is in shannon/Garmr
scum is in myself/Lexa

[mastina]

Thirty-third Votecount

:

(Third Votecount D4)

Lexa - 2 (ThinkBig, Garmr)

Not Voting - 5 (shannon, TheRealGin-N-Tonic, Pepchoninga, Lexa, PranaDevil)

With

7

alive, it takes

4

to lynch.

Lexa is at L-2.

Day 4's deadline is Tuesday, February 28th, @ 9:00 PM PST--(expired on 2017-03-01 01:00:14).

V/LA Notices/Mod Notes:

• mastina, the moderator, is V/LA over weekends.
  

[mastina]

(I could use the caution sign, but when it takes so few to lynch, it gets a little bit silly advertising L-2.)

[shannon]

Hold on... another JOAT claim, AND a roleblocker claim.... so that's three JOATs in the wild (well, 2 alive now)... I'm not buying all these claims. As i said before, another JOAT claim imbalances this game, and it's very easy on day 4 to say "yeah, I did these things and these people are still alive".

It doesn't change my statement though.

Scum is in shannon/Garmr
scum is in myself/Lexa

If you believe that, then it's Garmr + Lexa.

I was hoping that scum would try to hit G+T last night after he claimed, because then I'd die instead. We'd then have conf town G+T alive, and conf town me dead, which would help with wagon analysis.

[shannon]

VOTE: Think Big

Based on a few things:
1) I think he has been quite circumspect in his posting. It doesn't seem natural.
2) I think he's pushing too hard to try to make a 'town block' with him in it.
3) All these things quoted below.

539 says he will get serious and post thoughts when he gets home; no real serious thoughts happen.

670 Puts Karnos to L-1 with absolutely 0 comments or questions on him, just has him at the bottom of reads lists. Looks like he's bussing. Unvotes without explanation in 696.

Let's try and form a solid town block

and try to eliminate possible scum mates from the remaining pool.

@Garmr, I still think you are scum. Sorry.

Reads as quite insincere.

We also have TB disavowing meta:

*snippy*

Guess what? I don't give a flying fuck about previous games.

All meta is bullshit.

But then when it comes to the pointy end of things, all of a sudden meta is important:

Here is another scum game from pep.

Town Shannon

vs

Scum Shannon

[shannon]

Bloody hell I just lost all my Q+s because I hit reply on a different window.

Anyway, current crackpot theory: Gin is faking his claim, and has fake cleared TB. He has a scum investigative power, which is how he cleared BBT (who is really clear), having found him to be a VT.

Thoughts??

[PranaDevil]

I think if you believe Gin is scum with TB, why did you bodyguard him, and say you hoped scum killed him? Surely you should bodyguard elsewhere? Also how would you dying through bodyguard prove Gin was town then? Wouldn't it just show you died and not that Gin was protected in that scenario?

I'm happy with a Lexa/shannon team at this point

[ThinkBig]

@Lexa, why did you lie about being VT and why do you TR Shannon?

Claiming roleblocker (All Alone --> Pepchoninga --> Garmr). As far as I was concerned Alisae's claim was blatantly faked and designed to try and direct pressure away from him, I wasn't about to give (what I thought was) the scum team free information. Didn't expect a town to lie about their role so many times, though. Aimed my roleblock at my strongest scum reads n1 and n2 and then at Garmr n3 who I had concerns about "quitting but not really" as scum to avoid targeting given he'd been seen as more suspicious near the end of the day.

Town read on shannon was primarily based on their posting motivations (ref page 933 in my iso), their posts seemed almost exclusively town motivated from day 1 and in particular I didn't see any reason they would post the voting associations is 637 as they did. I haven't noticed anything since my catchup post that really enforces that position though, they've fallen a bit under my radar probably due to the short days and I'm thinking I'll have to take a closer look at them tomorrow. @anyone who's played with her, is she capable to pull of a deep-cover scum game like this?

Role blocker in this set up is pretty much a scum claim.

VOTE: lexa

Not following how RB=Scum claim

[shannon]

I think if you believe Gin is scum with TB, why did you bodyguard him, and say you hoped scum killed him? Surely you should bodyguard elsewhere? Also how would you dying through bodyguard prove Gin was town then? Wouldn't it just show you died and not that Gin was protected in that scenario?

I'm happy with a Lexa/shannon team at this point

The crackpot theory only just occurred to me today. Literally, as I posted it. Promise me that if I get lynched today you'll pursue this, because I'm going to flip exactly as I've claimed.

You're right, I could've just died and it wouldn't have proven shite about Gin. But I thought it was likely that scum would target the claimed PR, and my death (and shown to have had bodyguard power) might have helped people put 2 and 2 together. Given that he didn't die/wasn't targeted (or was targeted by a doc as well I suppose, so he didn't die and then I didn't die), it looks suss.

[TheRealGin-N-Tonic]

VOTE: Think Big

Take this vote off

[TheRealGin-N-Tonic]

Also, Lexa is the conf!lynch for myself as a scum roleblocker with apparently 3 JOATS makes the most sense. Now, how much I believe Shannon's claim, I'm not quite so sure of it.

Also, why I could use my Neo-shot on Lexa to prove she wasn't actually a VT and that not prove my role, I still don't know.

Again, how I could claim at the time that I did under no pressure be seen as scum, I won't know.

Lastly, I don't know how I could D1 start to suspect ThinkBig in the beginning, slowly build a TR, and then drop a shit ton of hints in case I died N2 that I checked TB and preplanned all that not knowing a JOAT was in the game besides myself; while also knowing if I ever flipped scum, all that would be meaningless; I seriously won't know.

[TheRealGin-N-Tonic]

I'm also not liking how you made this wild theory and voted conf!town and stopped townreading TB and I as soon as a Lexa wagon formed. It's sketch.