STEVEN UNIVERSE 2 - GAME OVER

[Cerberus v666]

Titus I have never suggested that twie would flip before NC.

What the fuck are you going on about?

-Cerb

[Cerberus v666]

]This is being written at the start of LYLO, without the benefit of knowing how Mastin is going to decide to resolve things. I just thought I should take the time to explain some of the decisions we've made without necessarily forcing everyone to wade through the infinite logs Drixx and I have left in our hydra PT.

1) The SC wagon. This was a bit of shitshow. We were prepared to step in and keep SC from being lynched, however his posting, for the most part, never really dissuaded anyone in and of itself. Even though we knew his loss would be a major blow to us, especially given that it would remove any uncertainty from the DGB/KC situation(even though somehow it didn't....), we couldn't risk throwing good money after bad, as it were, and risking our slots who were decently positioned.
2) The Klingoncelt kill. We knew that KC was a gem, and from what Yume had told us had a good idea that the gems had a pt together/were confirmed to one another. During D2 there was a major incident where mastin2 insisted that there were no third parties, which we knew to be false. The goals with this kill were threefold: First, to remove a Crystal Gem, so as to enable Skybirds late game powers; Second, to prove that there WERE third parties, and thus discredit mastin(at that exact moment her reads were actually atrociously wrong, however we were in more contact with Titus, the other likely town leader, and thus wanted town to be more inclined to listen to the individual we were actively influencing, rather than the one we had no communication with; Third, simply to remove someone who we expected to have a very powerful role.
3)Beach-A-Palooza: Yes, Mastin, we did deliberately give you the victory here. Out of all the reasons you had for suspecting us, this particular connection was the soundest one. We specifically told you about our hammer power(which did exist, and which Varsoon did tell us would count as a killing power even if we didn't have access to our factional) because we knew we'd be your most likely target, and because the rest of the target you had expressed interest in were either town, or S_S, who would show up as innocent to a gunsmith. In hindsight, piling onto Titus would have likely been better, but we expected the gems, at least, to follow along with the plan as we had presented to them, and to hopefully get their allies to go along as well. Basically, Titus winning seemed unlikely if people acted as they said they would.
4) The Yume kill: A rather critical moment of this game. First of all, full disclosure: This was a fuck-up, plain and simple. The objectives were to, again, work towards removing all the gems, buying skybird some town cred from the unlikeliness of scum!her removing Yume, as well as hoping that removing Yume would cause the gems actual win condition to be revealed, and/or remove the delay on flips, and finally, to pile on so much stress as to enable strong town powers whose usage would slingshot stress back down to -3, so the cluster could be activated the next day. Only the third objective was attained, through enabling TFL99's vote/lynch event. The fuck up here was simply that we completely forgot about XKFYU's event. We did not consider that we would be enabling it at all. Perhaps our reasoning would have been similar to that which we were accused of, that we wouldn't have thought he would have dared to use it on Skybird, had we considered it...but we didn't. And it cost us our end game plan.
5) Historical Fiction: During this event, we didn't have ANY plans in place. We had expected to be able to communicate during it and learn exactly what people claimed and determine how best to manipulate the game, but due to Fuzzy's event, we were unable to speak with TWIE. The most important thing that occurred here was TWIE's decision to make Skybirds declaration of actions true. She originally submitted that she attempted to kill us, but TWIE decided that if/when no explanation for our survival surfaced, that would immediately lead to our death, and that "clearing" grapes was worth removing that risk. i think both lines could have worked, given that protectives generally won't claim, and all it would take is one flipped targeted protective that hadn't claimed an action N1 to allow that gambit to work. Either way, we had no influence over the way this event played out.
6) Return to Earth: This event was bullshit. Such an incredibly weak, CRAPPY thing. Drixx and I joked about how useless it was as soon as we sat down and chatted about events. We planned to NEVER use it...until Farside hammered and left the town with nearly no planned alliances. That turned it from "shit event" into "free no lynch", and coupled with the guilty on TWIE, "potential free kill with a bus that would get everyone EXTRA cred since we could have made ourselves unable to vote". I still don't understand how this didn't work, btw....kraska should not have been able to ally with farside, so there should have been NO alliances at all, so kraska should not have been able to stop it. Of course, since our own planned alliances ended up failing for other reasons, I think if kraska hadn't stopped the event, we wouldn't have been able to submit a kill for the night either, making the day a wash and the event a waste.
7) Shooting Farside: This was spurred by S_S's realization that farside had claimed to be a roleblocker, and that she was suspicious of my slot. Since S_S was incapable of submitting the kill, this meant if Farside remained around it was simply a matter of time until she stopped one of my kills and caught us, so she had to go...which was a damn shame, because this whole time Drixx and I had planned to have her as a ripe LYLO lynch. Unfortunately, farside didn't understand her own role, and we could have ignored her safely, and not wasted this kill. Fun fact Farside: Drixx and I, prior to Titus stealing our power, had considered making you an offer of nightly targeting in our alliance, to guarantee you'd get your 3p win. After we lost our power, our team no longer had any means of targeting other than the NK, making this idea unworkable, but I think it could have been an interesting gambit.
8)Shooting MoI: Simply put, we determined that succeeding or failing on this kill would have no effect on how many lynches we needed to succeed on in order to win, and decided it was worth it to take the shot and add to the weight of evidence against the possibility of us being scum. Our information was also incomplete and we didn't know exactly what form MoI would continue in, so we had some hope that they would simply be stumped or otherwise weakened.
9) Getting Farside shot by Fuzzy, and skipping our own kill: At this stage, as I outlined in the game, we couldn't afford for there to be any more clears...this meant we had to deal with A50's track on grapes. A50 was an essential part of our lylo win at this stage, so the simplest option, simply shooting A50, wasn't an option...and we didn't trust that the town would seriously consider that grapes could be a ninja. That meant the next simplest option was simply skipping our kill, empowered though it was, to maximize the uncertainty in the game. At this stage, Farsides death was, again, unfortunate. We would have preferred to have her alive in lylo, or removed via her 3p win con to give us a free kill, but keeping A50 alive to vote with us was more important than keeping her alive to be voted on. On this day we could have also let Fuzzy shoot A50, while we shot mastin, but again...we WANTED A50 alive in lylo pretty badly.
10)Setting stress to +4: The event used to set stress to +4 was intended to cause the following sequence to happen(because we did not expect the bubble to happen that night): mislynch grapes, shoot a gem, in 4p mylo. Stress is at +4, and nobody is lynchable because tragic destiny was in effect. Get a free kill that night, which would be on either Mastin or Shiro, both of whom were conftown(Shiro because we had reached 4 or less alive, therefore there couldn't be two scum alive), putting us into an us, a50, mastin/shiro LYLO. We weren't certain which one we preferred to have in lylo with us, there were argument to be made for both.
11) The bubbling of grapes etc: The "guaranteed wins" which we offered town on this day phase were all fundamentally flawed because once grapes was returned and left the game, we would again be at 4 alive, forcing a no lynch. This would force the game into a state where a missed bubble by random would result in a game loss. An unfortunate side effect of this plan was that if random didn't bubble that night, we would immediately lose because it would be impossible for anyone else to be scum. Our only counter in that situation was no killing YET AGAIN and hoping to force the lynch on Shiro or Grapes. It would be a long shot, but it was our only play in that situation.
12)After Grapes' event was revealed my MoI, we were quite concerned since that ability obviously messed up our timeline that would allow us to sculpt the endgame we desired, with the conftown we wanted left alive. We decided to push ahead with the plan though, raising stress to +4 and enabling it etc, because we believed that grapes was most likley to use his power on A50, which wasn't going to be fatal, and that it was POSSIBLE that grapes' power was climax only, in which case his refusal to use the event could be easily painted as scum in mylo just trying ot eke ou that last day to get a win. In spite of this prior planning, we were surprised when the morning came and grapes and A50 were gone. I had assumed that grapes, being town, had honestly claimed his power to random, and the fact that they didn't use it during the previous day came down to the inactivity that comes from not being alive in a game anymore. This put us into a rather desperate spot, where we did in fact expect to lose almost immediately due to the fact that mastin remained alive and had been both reluctant to consider the idea of a seven man scum team and tunneling us all game. Our initial plan for the day was to keep all the possible options for the scum team open, that is,A50, RR, A50/Grapes, Grapes/Shiro, and Shiro/A50(because we knew the town had not been paying close enough attention to the tragic destiny mylo/lylo triggers to clear them on that basis(as is easily noted because when Grapes was returned to teh game, Varsoon did not include the Tragic Destiny increase in the lynch threshold, and nobody mentioned it) however we soon realized that on a 14 day timeline, we had to expect that the easily cleared pairings would be caught and decided to get out ahead of them. This is what led to us removing A50, A50/Shiro(this was a mistake on my part, I KNEW they were cleared by the same reasoning but forgot to include it in my posting), and then eventually Shiro alone. This led us to a game state where we were able to nudge Shiro towards no lynching without causing alarm in mastin that could have caused her to immediatley hammer us. Unfortunately, Shiro didn't engage with us anymore after we had responded to his mechanical concerns about a 7 scum man team, and so the opportunity to shut mastin out of the equation entirely and jump straight ot a win wasn't realized.

I'll have more to say later, but I just wanted to get all this out as soon as the end of game was announced.

Pedit: McMenno, don't. I will be EXTREMELY pissed if anyone else displays even the tiniest bit of arrogance in victory.

Seriously.

I haven't had fun in this game for like 2 months and Varsoon requested we not give up REPEATEDLY. We knew we had a miniscule chance of winning off purely mechanical things for months, and that was when we thought the gems only had limited bubbling.

I will not abide anyone thinking they can, joking or not, gloat in any way.

[Cerberus v666]

Oh, and mastina/shiro: sorry for leading you on about the end of the game.

Look at the setup, now that it's revealed.

We had DAMN good reason to expect there to be another anti-town role, and I didn't want us coming clean after you hammered to mess with the potential endgame of someone else.

[Cerberus v666]

Oh and to those few who may read our hydra pt:I handed off logging responsibilities to drixx back when I stopped having fun, and he hasn't done it in those intervening months. The last of our logs should be posted to the pt sometime in the next day, because I'll do it if he doesn't.

[Cerberus v666]

Varsoon, I tried to rally CG paranoia as soon as I discovered they had lied to conftown, but nobody cared.

If nobody cares about a faction with a hidden win con lying to conftown, then there were no circumstances under which they'd be paranoia about the gems in large enough numbers to actually lynch them.

[Cerberus v666]

Titus.

I know, as the winning team, it's hard to admit that the game was fundamentally imbalanced in your favor, but seriously.

What about THAT was balanced?

The only scum that was even close to the power level of ANY ONE of the gems was DGB, and she was the traitor and couldn't be coordinated with.

Scum had up to 3 extra kills, two of which were EXTREMELY gated and untargetable(we were only able to trigger the cluster because we devoted every resource we could to getting stress as high as possible, so we could enable town powers that we hoped would drop stress low enough to enable us using it...and this was with a D1 lynch on a member of our team), and one of which would have never come into play if town had just listened to the mod.

Town had more kills than the scum had access to extra kills, with less strongest restrictions generally, and those kills were twice as likely to hit scum as they normally would be. The scum teams protections were okay, but those empowering things that varsoon mentioned town had could have easily benefited those shooting at them.

The gems(I haven't fully read their roles yet because I'm mobile snd things are cut off) had protective powers on 4/5 of their members, combined with passive bodyguarding between them when fused, and two events that made it impossible to kill one of them.

There's more. There's loads more.

Don't argue that this was balanced.

[Cerberus v666]

@Yume/SQ: I'm really sorry about that. I explained my reasoning for killing you in that first post I made in postgame, it just didn't accompish the goals we wanted at all. :/

[Cerberus v666]

@Cerberus I think varsoon was saying you guys treated CG too much like conf town so they became conf town which hugely put them in towns favor as looking like actually masonry when they could easily be viewed as anti town faction that was detrimental to their win.

In essence if they played differently the game could have been more balanced but ehhh...not sure

We didn't though? The town leaders all decided they were definitely town, as soon as a chink in that appeared we attempted to raise paranoia, we spent two early kills on them in hopes of revealing their redacted win con(which we believed wasn't pro town). Like, I don't know what else we could have done. If we had decided not to shoot them, in spite of haVing a role that was DESIGNED to go gem hunting and made our weak team much stronger if we succeeded, we just end up with more unlychables than scum.

Like, at no point in the game did we have a numbers advantage on the gems+IC.

[Cerberus v666]

I know, BUT there was no reason to play it that way, AND we had a role telling us "Go kill gems, it's good for you!"

Even in that best case scenario, the game ends from our victory before the cgs removal matters.

And in the scenario where there are loads of gems and few town and scum, the chances of us escaping a lynch with the collective attention of 4-5 players on us was even less likely.

The gems "weakness" was one we were mechanically told didn't exist, essentially.

[Cerberus v666]

In post 12637, Firebringer wrote:
@Cerberus I think varsoon was saying you guys treated CG too much like conf town so they became conf town which hugely put them in towns favor as looking like actually masonry when they could easily be viewed as anti town faction that was detrimental to their win.

In essence if they played differently the game could have been more balanced but ehhh...not sure


We didn't though? The town leaders all decided they were definitely town, as soon as a chink in that appeared we attempted to raise paranoia, we spent two early kills on them in hopes of revealing their redacted win con(which we believed wasn't pro town). Like, I don't know what else we could have done. If we had decided not to shoot them, in spite of haVing a role that was DESIGNED to go gem hunting and made our weak team much stronger if we succeeded, we just end up with more unlychables than scum.

I think you killing them specifically was the huge mistake.

Leave them alone and when town is looking around going "hey why these gems alive" natural paranoia will kick in.

Kill the town leaders not gems.

I disagree. As I said...they lied to conftown, were caught doing it, and nobody cared. No other situation exists where town would be more likely to go after them.

[Cerberus v666]

@Titus: whether you or mastin won was immaterial. We chose mastin purely for the sake of consistency in the plan I had outlined to you and yume.

[Cerberus v666]

And I couldn't care less about anyone's play if they weren't alive in the last two day phases.

This game has gone on so long that I have difficulty recalling what occurred early game.

Pedit: we had no reason to think you'd trigger an IC.

You may have thought you were clear, but you weren't.

@Varsoon: I'm not suggesting the scum team should have KNOWN about the weakness. I'm saying that we were incentivized to kill them, and so the closer we got to killing then all, the less the weakness mattered.

[Cerberus v666]

@Cerb: Well, yeah, I also didn't want it to be an outright easy call. I wanted the decision to be a harder one to make, with incentives for both sides:
Kill Crystal gems--remove pro-town, strong PRs.
Kill Town--throttle towards a quicker win.

You're making the mistake of thinking there was a choice to be made here.

There was no reason to believe there was any benefit to leaving the gems alone(other than the steven slot). None at all, at least not early enough in the game to choose to keep from killing them.

There WAS a benefit known to removing them all.

There's absolutely no reason why any intelligent party would believe they shouldn't target the gems.

If you wanted there to be some choice to make, you needed something in the scum teams factionals or roles that benefited from having more gems than just steven alive, otherwise the optimal play, barring godtier town players that the scum team didn't believe they could avoid, is to remove the slots most likely to have the largest mechanical strength, which also happen to supercharge your own team once they're all gone.

Cerberus seems reluctant to hydra with me. :/

I thought he wouldn't be opposed to that given his assertions that he likes me.

Sorry, Id like to hydra with you, just not sure when. I'm pretty sick of mafia. The delay in answering came because we can always hydra..but I won't always have people around making these assertions that I disagree with. The discussions were having are more immediate since I expect interest to wane, and these are things I'd like to talk about.

[Cerberus v666]

@Titus: whether you or mastin won was immaterial. We chose mastin purely for the sake of consistency in the plan I had outlined to you and yume.

It was though, and you should have aborted when I objected and you knew or should have know I was triggerring my IC. You did get Mastina a win, but at the expense of revealing a scum mastermind.

If you said, Titus will confirm herself as town most likely, we should elect Titus en masse and play to her pride, town gets a lot less info. Mastina looks better and thus I compromise onto Snarky/town faster, rather than leading a DGB lynch. There's also less data on numbers with split wagons. We had a three pronged equation with the division instead of there are x many group scum.

The beachapalooza vote division was meaningless. It ended up being useless because of the NC/Farside votes(which we expected, btw. Not them exactly, but that some alliance would make the floor 5 votes). Matin was right that it was never used to lynch someone, and it never could have been used.

Seriously, the event wasn't important other than giving mastin a gunsmith.

Revealing that there was a "mastermind" also wasn't important. None of the arguments against us that were substantial were based on that. Mastin tried a bit in the midgame, but it wasn't a threat.
The eventual choice she made was based off of her inability to absorb all the information available fast enough. I'm quote confident that had she had the time to actually respond to everything drixx was saying, and read through the rest of the game, she wouldn't have voted for us.


Granred, this is all hindsight. It's possible that it would have been BETTER to handle beachapalooza differently, but I don't believe it hurt us in any significant fashion.

[Cerberus v666]

Oh, akso, ai agree that not killing the cgs was optimal. The problem is that killing crystal gems was sold to the scum team as a way to endgame faster, by gaining access to another vote.

So, we WERE taking the line thar ended the game the fastest, given the knowledge we had.

[Cerberus v666]

@Cerb: Ah, I figured it was communicated enough via wincon of removing 'Earth-aligned' players.

Ummm.

Our win con was equal or exceed remaining players.

Not remove earth-aligned.
Had that been the case, yes, it would have been clear...but that wasn't the case.

[Cerberus v666]

Ph, you mean he fact that the towns win con required survival of am earth aligned.

That's not sufficient. All that does ia tell us there's another faction that could remove the last scum while no town live(which actually makes It misleading, because no such faction existed).

[Cerberus v666]

Skimmed your last post once I reached the part where it fell apart....namely, where Yune and mastin both vote for her, which is something I couldn't control. The floor is set at 2 5s. It's the same situation, with a pool of non voters and a pool of voters.

[Cerberus v666]

D'oh. Now I feel like a chump.
For some reason, I thought I built it such that it was like:
You win if you have equal numbers or higher to non-scum,
or You win if all town (earth) are eliminated from the game.

That's what I intended, regardless.
I think it's only evident in this iteration by actually realizing the CG's get end-gamed when no Town players are left.

Yeah, and that's something that only someone extremely mechanics and balance minded would even suspect, and which would NEVER be known for certain.

[Cerberus v666]

Holy shit epic length dead thread.

[Cerberus v666]

Magna is an example of the worst shit on this site. The people with older join dates are always trying to tell people how to play and are super preachy judgy assholes to newer people. It's like gigantic e-dick slapping. Some of the worst people on this site are among the ones with older join dates who think that entitles them to be god of mafia and dictate to others how to play. To my knowledge I've never played with that guy before, and this game makes me never want to play with him again.

@Drixx

- I will certainly make sure to keep my "worst shit on site" self out of games that you are commited to first also.

Fyi, it's unlikely that drixx will avoid doing things he wants to do just to avoid you. He's not one to give someone else power over him.

Holy shit epic length dead thread.

theres also a lot of salt in there.

Finally finished reading it.

So many things I could respond to, but in true me fashion, I have to respond to the one thing that's not true.

@TFL99: We were not lying about the farside shot. Maybe you viewed it aa pushing, but we were VERY careful to work with a very light touch.

[Cerberus v666]

Ohhh I need to explain the shitstorm of bitching by us when mastin showed up to say nothing but reiterate stuff she had already said: this was a perfectly honest, real response. We both felt like she had just asked us to waste a shitload of time for no reason. Posting all of it in thread though, was strategic. Normally drixx and I would just vent to one another, mostly. By posting it in thread, it opened up the possibility that mastin would either just hammer us, which we were desperate to see happen....or think "why are they STILL trying to piss me off if they're scum?" And possibly hammer shiro. It may have been better to simply answer everything as quickly as possible that night, instead of giving into my urge to vent, because we really do believe that a mastin who put in as much time and effort to make her decision as she said she would, who had spent enough time thinking about it to overcome her bias(which all you dead people saw her admit to you), she wouldn't have believed we could be scum. Responding faster would have meant more time she could have spent reaching that point.

[Cerberus v666]

whoaaa

Kts, we could(and should) have blown up your slot as soon as you said you were garnet. I sincerely regret not doing thst, jist for the shock and awe it would cause, plus it would have bypassed your roles protections(per varsoon after you flipped, though by the letter of your ability you would have still been alive).

[Cerberus v666]

Oh, and drixx has finished with the logs. Anyone who wants to know the majority of our thoughts during these last few days can now see them.

[Cerberus v666]

Yep, I'm a robot. When Grapes asked said I was either scum or not human, I had to bite back an immediate response of "why can't I be both?"

[Cerberus v666]

I actually believe had we realized that Titus was going to IC, on D1, when we considered that maybe the gems were removed upon achieving their win con, we would have put more weight on that line of thought and played towards the "only kills town" plan, keeping yume pocketed and using our roleblock to shut down another gem.

Our obtuseness could have easily been the biggest factor is us pursuing a game plan that got ruined when skybird was killed.

Pedit:@KTS: I KNOW! IT WOULD HAVE BEEN HILARIOUS. Imagine town just tiptoeing around any mention of flavor all game...:p

[Cerberus v666]

GG all.

@Mastina:

Good Reads and GOOD DETERMINATION.

@RR:

You guys are GREAT. I enjoyed your Scum play even more than I had enjoyed your Town play before.

@Creature:

Yeah, I'll be sure to change my profile soon enough!

@Shiro:

Your "gut" isn't any better than mine!

@Grapes:

You too! We should be competing for the wooden spoon trophy or something!!

@MoI:

Once again, SORRY for the outburst, but it REALLY peeved me that you skimmed and misread (and thus misrepresented) everything I said in our PT.

@Far:

Your play is scummy. End of.

@Yume:

I have yet to see you play a better game, despite having rusted Sky too much.

@Titus:

You're one of the few players who CAN tell the difference between my Town play and my Scum play.

@Varsoon:

You're A LEGEND!

Yea drixx fooled me at the end. Dx I thought he was town there.after the lynch, thank god I followed my mechcanil anylisis after all

*shrug* Looking at the mechanics, there should have been more scum. SOMETHING MORE anti-town needed to exist. We weren't just using that to push people, it was legitimately the viewpoint town!us would have with what we had seen of the setup.

Like, we were so sure that there was another anti-town role of some sort that when Varsoon forgot to adjust the lynch threshold when grapes was returned to the game, we started speculating about how he could possibly be another anti-town role, and maybe somebody else was a survivor or something, so we were in LYLO.

Point is, your mechanical analysis was wrong/the game just wasn't balanced. ^^

[Cerberus v666]

i haven't read the scum PT but, i assume i was killed due to being near-confirmed town?

I have no recollection of why we killed you over others. I'm sure it's in there though.

Regarding the whole stress reduction thing: Just you talking isn't worth enabling a strongman kill. Seriously. Especially not in the situation town was in. Nobody has a voice I, as town, would want to pay that price for.

Now if you compare the cost's as flipping you versus using up a one shot power...the scale is CLOSER, but it's still in favor of performing the action that doesn't cost any resources as far as I'm aware of.

Again, what town was losing was your voice being channeled through MoI, which is something of no mechanical benefit.

Now, if the gems had used their bubbling properly, and enabled the people who were NK'd to use their climax actions while they were bubbled, got full claims from them, etc...then yes, there would have certainly been good cause to keep people bubbled over using the one shot, because it's a matter of enabling the usage of multiple powers from your role, rather than using the one from kraska.

Unfortunately, they didn't use that power at all, AND they didn't tell anyone about it.

So, I stand by my advise there. It was the best play for town to make with the knowledge I had. I was HOPING that exactly what happened would occur, wtih the hammer happening before any actions were taken, but my advice was optimal from my position.

[Cerberus v666]

Dunno, I stopped reading the PT once I got to something you were irritated at me about. ^^

I'm seriously blown away by the underutilization of the mechanical benefits town had in this game.

I mean..this totally sounds like I'm being a dick here, but I'm not trying to be...

But fuck. Just the bubbling alone means they could have had two conftown slots(ones who were shot by scum, and thus they knew were town) who still maintain a decent portion of their power. They could have bubbled Yume themselves, and kept her completely safe from anything until they needed to use her ability to resurrect someone(for example, on the snarky snowman lynch, which even without a flip, they KNEW was on a town slot), OR bubbled any number of other slots with useful climax actions.

Not to mention the fact that once some gems were exposed, kraska just needed to get a single alliance with any of them and she could empower all their abilities for the rest of the game while still keeping her abilities a secret.

Or the fact that SS could have easily dodged his lynch if he were paying enough attention.

And...*sigh*

The list goes on.

Just.

The things I could do with the level of power this town had. Usually in Varsoon games I'm on the town side and looking at the scum team going OMG, but it's the exact opposite here.

Lol, another thing I just realized, if MoI had gone into Ruby after death rather than Sapphire, and was then bubbled(this would have required a different line early on, obviously, something to get themselves killed early), they could have been bubbled and the gems would have then had an unstoppable roleblock>kill>roleblock>kill on top of their bubble.

Like, the power is fucking disgusting.

[Cerberus v666]

The know, SS, the fact that nobody is actually coming back to respond to that comment and argue with it probably says everything that needs to be said.

[Cerberus v666]

Fb, I sincerely believe that if you run this game 1000 times, with this flavor and with people aware of the flavor, the gems will be considered masons by the town, and any attempts to disparage them without cause will result in suspicion being placed upon those disparaging them, while disparaging them with cause will simply be ignored, as it was in this game.

[Cerberus v666]

Missed a word! The gems will ALWAYS be considered masons by the town. ^^

And the scum team will ALWAYS go after the gems until skybirds role is dead, because there is no indication that removing the gems ISN'T the fastest path to victory.

[Cerberus v666]

I don't believe we ever tried to buddy Mastina in the entire game. We were somewhat deliberately and needlessly obstructive to all her goals, and places ourselves against her at almost every turn....