Mini #553: Over!

[CoolBot]

vote: Spindax

To get things rolling

[CoolBot]

I'm not part of the Fellowship. That's shouldn't be surprising, as the game would be seriously broken if the town was only the Fellowship. So it's likely all a mass claim would accomplish is give the mafia clues to who our power roles are.

[CoolBot]

No, I'm pretty sure he originally wanted a full mass claim. Only after getting resistance, Khel switched to the three outsiders. Sounds like fishing to me.

[CoolBot]

I don't think we can just throw out the events of the first couple pages - khel did call for a mass claim on the first day with no justification for it. How can we ignore that?

[CoolBot]

To get this game moving again, we need a bandwagon. And Khel did present an anti-town plan, so I'm jumping on.

unvote: Spindax
vote: Khelvaster

[CoolBot]

If it was just the mass claim, maybe i could buy letting him go. But later he wanted to know if there were three people outside the fellowship. That's appears to be a clear case of role fishing to me. And it's not like there are a richness of leads right now. Unless someone has a better idea, Khel's our best option for a wagon right now.

[CoolBot]

Well, I guess he is too fishy to let go.

Huh? What did I say that changed you mind so quickly?

What are you talking about? I just explained why I wanted three people outside the fellowship in my previous post: This would almost certainly point to a 9-3 division of scum-town.

You were so certain that the town was Fellowship, and I don't see why. LOTR games have been played before and they've included many pro town roles outside of the fellowship. In properly balanced games, mass claim usually hurt the town, badly. You never gave any real justification of it. So a wagon is justified, IMO.

[CoolBot]

Ting, regarding Khel, that makes sense. I still think Khel jumped to mass claim too quickly, but I can see why he'd do it.

unvote: Khelvaster

I less comfortable with matt, though. In particular, posts 69 and posts 71 raise red flags for me. He changed his mind from Zyconium to khel for no reason. The post in between was one of mine where I explain my vote on khel, but with emphasis that my vote was there only because there wasn't really anywhere else to put it. Looks like he was just looking for an excuse to put his vote there.

vote: Matt_S

[CoolBot]

I'm not voting Matt_S because he's unnamed. I never said anything like that. I am voting him because of his quick change of vote around post 70. He gave no justification for it, and it looks odd to me.

Yet CoolBot mentioned that he wasn't Fellowship when coming to my defense. I'd think that he'd explain that not everybody had names, but he just said that he wasn't in the Fellowship.

Revealing if not everyone has a name gives scum a lot of help when they have to come up with a claim. Since the crux of Khel's argument was that there was

only

Fellowship, I only had to reveal I wasn't in the Fellowship to stop the mass claim. Unnamed townies should not have been revealed.

[CoolBot]

Lurk? What's there to say? There's been no new attack against me, and Matt hasn't done anything to warrant removing a vote. I'm hoping some of the new players will have a new perspective, but that hasn't happened yet.

[CoolBot]

I never claimed whether I have a name or not. And I won't do so until necessary. I don't know why ting thinks I don't have a name, but I didn't want to address it for fear that it might help scum craft a claim by knowing for sure whether there are named townies outside the fellowship.

[CoolBot]

The mass claim was always a bad idea, and it should be dropped. Why bring it up again, khel?

I don't see why ting is having such a hard time coming to terms with named townies outside the Fellowship. There are dozens of characters to choose from. There no reason the mod would restrict himself to just the Fellowship. In fact, this was one of the first arguments against the mass claim.

crazy_vlad, could you explain your last post a bit? It makes no sense. Skipping a whole bunch of nothing sounds fine to me. Several players have unvoted only because the bandwagon was getting large enough to accomplish something. That sort of play only drags things out.

[CoolBot]

Just to clarify, I haven't said either way, yet, because I think that gives too much information to scum.

[CoolBot]

I don't see what we gain by stopping the wagon on Matt. He hasn't really explained his actions, nor has he claimed. All we know is he doesn't have a name, but beyond that, it's speculation. Surely, he's part of a group like Gondor or Rohan. At the very least, we should hear what it is before moving on.

[CoolBot]

What makes you think he's in a group like Gondor or Rohan if he's unnamed?

Well, it seems more likely than being just some guy from Middle Earth. I don't believe Matt has been fully honest, and he hasn't claimed despite being only a couple votes from a lynch. I think he's laying low, hoping this blows over. This is especially evident in his tactic of leaving vague hints and only telling us what they mean after someone says something concrete

Finally, I haven't seen any convincing explanation of his quick turn around in post 70. Until I get one or he claims, my vote isn't moving.

[CoolBot]

No flavor?

[CoolBot]

Townsman in the Fellowship? That doesn't make any sense.

[CoolBot]

There are nine people in the Fellowship. In the novel, they all of names, and from khel's actions, it seems pretty clear that he has a name and is part of the Fellowship.

Fellowship means pro-town.

This doesn't really make sense considering your actions. When I said I wasn't part of the Fellowship, you said:

While it's comforting to learn that I'm not alone,

I don't get this. If you are part of the Fellowship, how did anything I said convince you that you weren't alone? I never said I had no name and I specifically said I wasn't in the Fellowship.

[CoolBot]

I agree with Talitha. There's been two wagons strong enough to get some information, but they have both died because someone unvotes because the wagons are too big. That sort of play does nothing but lengthen the game and give scum a reason to think they can just out last the wagon and don't have to claim.

[CoolBot]

Sorry for the double post; I forgot to respond to Matt

When YOU said fellowship, I thought you meant the book's and movie's fellowship people.

Uh, I did. Until this exchange between us, that's what I thought everyone was talking about when they used the word "fellowship". And it's what you implied way back on page 1. An earlier clarification would of been helpful.

[CoolBot]

My PM does not specifically say that the Fellowship is the Town; it says a lot of stuff about conquering the baddies, but it doesn't say anything about the Fellowship.

That's more or less what mine says too. That's why this townsman in the fellowship stuff confuses me. If anyone is named, I have to believe it's those in the fellowship.

[CoolBot]

I think it would be a safe idea to say the fellowship is town.

I don't think anyone was saying otherwise. The question is whether the fellowship comprises the entire town, not whether the fellowship is town or not.

Ruling people out over role pm claims that don't matter anymore (Or conviting then for it) is just bullshit.

No, we shouldn't throw out this info just because the game was categorized wrong. I think getting to the bottom of the Fellowship is a good idea, especially with a claim like Matt's.

[CoolBot]

When I last posted, Matt's post wasn't deleted. He paraphrased his role PM, apprently close enough to warrant mod action. So he's confirmed.

unvote: Matt_S

[CoolBot]

for f's sake quit with the followship talk the flvor is gone, and frnkly you can always have a traitor in the ranks. Ruling people out over role pm claims that don't matter anymore (Or conviting then for it) is just bullshit.

I don't like this post by Qman. He's trying to get the town to throw out useful information without any good reason. He could be scum trying to cover up a weakness. His vote on Talitha was not well reasoned, either.

vote: Qman

[CoolBot]

Oh, and ting, stop fishing. I'm not going to tell you what my role is.

[CoolBot]

Voting for someone that just wants to end the day, and doesn't care if we lynch a townie or scum. Yeah that's not a good reason to vote someone. Why didn't I know that? DAMN MY POOR SCUM THOUGHTS!

Calm down. A vote isn't the end of the world. And where did Talitha ever say she didn't care whether we lynch scum or town?

[CoolBot]

Talitha's post seems pretty straight forward to me. Care to explain what you don't like about it? Vague uneasiness isn't an convincing case.

[CoolBot]

I can see the value of getting the game moving, but I'd like to hear from Mert before ending the day. That, and I'm sure the minute someone votes eljcko someone else will unvote because the bandwagon is getting to big.

I said something about her posts didn't sit right with me.

And I'm asking what that something is. Otherwise, it appears you're just trying to spread suspicion without any concrete reason. I distrust that sort of play.

[CoolBot]

I don't know, I think you're reading into her posts what you want to, Imat. Especially the joke thing - I can't see how you're not seeing it.

[CoolBot]

Nothings Changed Again Vote Count!

Votes required:

7 to lynch

6, Eljcko

-

Destructor, ting =), massive, Qman, Khelvaster, Talitha

2, Talitha

-

crazy_vlad, Imat

1, Qman

-

Coolbot

1, ting =)

-

Matt_S

lol, MeMe

-

Mert

Furthermore, you just said you are a member of the fellowship and you are a vanilla townie. You haven't gone and said *which* member of the fellowship you were.

Isn't this exactly what matt said? Now, eljcko may just be scum following matt's laed, but I don't see why you'd believe eljcko over matt.

[CoolBot]

Unnamed townie, sure. Unnamed fellowship, not happening.

matt claimed unnamed fellowship. He quoted his pm and it said that. The mod then deleted his post for quoting the mod. So we know, beyond any reasonable doubt, that unnamed fellowship exist.

That said, I am leaning towards eljcko making up a claim he knows is in the game. His earlier posts look like he was trying to prepare a claim outside the fellowship, but now that he knows there's unnamed in the fellowship, he's going with that. His idea that matt's claim might've been a safe claim given to scum seems rather suspect if he has the same exact thing.

[CoolBot]

Me too, and nothing more seems likely to happen. Therefore,

unvote: Qman
vote: eljcko