Mini 559 - Cult Mafia again - Game over

[omg_im_innocent_wtf]

sup thread

[omg_im_innocent_wtf]

ha

i dont ever random vote ever

[omg_im_innocent_wtf]

ok so seriously, lets talk strat.

obviously there are 3 teams.

1 cultist.

2 mafia, one godfather and one goon.

im gonna take a stab and say a minimum of 3 power roles.

1 roleblocker (it was in the other game)

1 doctor (its used in the writeup)

1 cop (otherwise whats the point of a godfather)

and thus a maximum of 6 vanillagers.

this ratio could easily be 4 power roles and 5 vanillagers, with another role in there or 2 roleblockers/doctors.

if we use the 1-2-3-6 ratio,

if we lynch a townie day 1 (we will probly be forced to lynch the first townie to claim so they arent cultified), then we are left with:

1-2-3-5

if worst case scenario mafia kills a power role and cultist recruits a townie, on day 2 we have a situation of:

2-2-2-4.

if the same happens again, on day 3 we have a situation of:

3-2-1-2

village is left completely outweighed, and the cult can easily group together to kill off the mafia and town.


tbh this is kind of rambling, but the general points im trying to make is that

a) the cult is a common enemy of both mafia and town, so in a sense the mafia should be working with us at this stage.
b) it seems very important to get a good start to this game, which probably includes forming some kind of game plan, as otherwise it could end up all but over by day 2 or 3.

[omg_im_innocent_wtf]

forget commenting on me.

if everyone is 100% sure im mafia/cultist, it STILL makes sense in such a role filled game for us to first discuss tactics. and logic is logic, regardless of anyones role.

[omg_im_innocent_wtf]

Omg: curiouskarmadog has stated that there could be 2-4 town powerroles in the game-setup thread. So the max number of vanilla is 7.

yeah, but which of the roles cop, doctor or roleblocker could possibly be left out?

i agree he said 2-4, but i think we can logically deduce from a balance perspective that it is more likely 3-4. just my thoughts.

[omg_im_innocent_wtf]

omg:
Your setup guess seems sensible.
You are also correct that the cult is the common enemy of town and mafia, but finding the cultist today is extemely hard, since he/she doesn't have a connection to anybody at the moment. Mafia, on the other hand, are connected, so there we at least have a chance to find anything.

true, i wasnt really trying to suggest that, rather just trying to get ppl talking. seems really bad in such a game to just push random ppl to lynch.

Regarding claims, I'm not sure about the lynch claimed townie-strategy.
If we decide that a claimed townie should be lynched (to make it possible for the recruit to fail) and a claimed power-role should be kept alive for the mafia to take out, then you are dead whatever role you have when you claim.

Of course, this means that any scum needs to claim power-role which is more beneficial to town than if they claim powerless (easier to counterclaim and verify). A claimed power-role who survives creates a WIFOM-situation of course, but that can always be taken care of.

Hmm... maybe you are correct. But the witch trial feel of claims in these cases made me think of an alternative strategy of no claims at all (confuses mafia and cult) followed by a mass claim at some strategic point in the game. Opinions?

i think this seems like a very good idea. no claims at all unless you are a cop WITH at least one living peeked person. anyone else want to weigh in on this?

[omg_im_innocent_wtf]

ot: [btw lol @ you guys being on conquerclub. i just joined that site like a week ago or so. my name there is riskriskriskrisk but im total noob.]

[omg_im_innocent_wtf]

it was in response to this post from elias. i felt that was pretty obvious tbh.

ugh. dont feel like commenting on all that stuff from OMG at present. I can back up his claim of not random voting though, ive played with him twice before.

im not being defensive at all. im making a general point that before we start looking to accuse people we should discuss overall strategy.

[omg_im_innocent_wtf]

guys its not defensive at all.

notice the word 'if'? im saying IF, hypothetically, IF, we were in a situation in which everyone wanted to lynch me, we should still discuss start first.

please read posts carefully before commenting. kinda sad that 3 ppl have now quoted that and missed that part.

[omg_im_innocent_wtf]

*strat

[omg_im_innocent_wtf]

before we continue, could i please just get a quick confirmation from those that misread/misunderstood my post that you now understand it?

i will try to word things a little easier/clearer in future.

[omg_im_innocent_wtf]

before we continue, could i please just get a quick confirmation from those that misread/misunderstood my post that you now understand it?

I agree that it's a hypothetical. But the problem I had wasn't the meaning, it was the fact that you even threw it out there as a possibility at all.

Although as far as the point goes, I'd say we can discuss suspicion and strategy at the same time.

Blaze: The reason why ppl random vote at the beginning of the game is to encourage disscusion. No discussions are pointless. You could sometimes work out the real intension of the people who start or join them.

Agreed. Picking out little things from strategy discussion can go a long way. Plus, we might even be able to come up with a useful strategy.

it is too hard to explain what hypothetical means. but i will summarise by saying that i didnt 'throw it out there as a possibility'. i did not at any point in that post consider that to be a possible scenario.

basically consider this, the following scale represents ppl that are 100% im evil:

0 -;-----------------------------1----------2----3-----* all

now, at the time i made that post i probably thought that the level of that scale was about ;. however, i was making a general point, and thus brought up the * situation to demonstrate that regardless of where the correct point on the scale was, this general point held. i brought up the * because as you can see on the scale, if the general point holds at that point, then it also holds at points 1, 2, 3 and ;. basically by proving that even at the most extreme point it is true, i have proved that it is true at all other points on the scale, and thus no other point on the scale will need to be discussed at any time. in fact this is how hypothetical situations are often used.

do you understand now?

[omg_im_innocent_wtf]

consider a very simple analogy,

imagine if there was 7 people left, no power roles and 1 mafia, and we were all 100% sure (somehow, this part is irrelevant) that one of those 7 was the cultist, and yet people were still trying to lynch me.

at that point, i could hypothetically say that "even if i am the mafia, we should still lynch the cultist because he is more dangerous to the village". note that in no point am i even considering the fact that i am mafia because obviously i would know that i wasnt. however, i bring up that case because it is essentially something like a 'worst case scenario'. if we shouldnt lynch me in that spot when i am mafia then obviously we shouldnt ever lynch me in that spot.

this is similar to what i was saying, in that if we should discuss strat even in the worst case scenario where everyone is sure im a scum, then obviously we should discuss strat first in any spot.

[omg_im_innocent_wtf]

Blaze: The reason why ppl random vote at the beginning of the game is to encourage disscusion. No discussions are pointless. You could sometimes work out the real intension of the people who start or join them.

So, do you think OMG was overdefensive, or others were just misunderstanding him?

this, is ridiculous. i have not been defensive in any way at all so far. i have also proved that others have misunderstood me. i dont see why a villager would ever make this post.

so, my first non-random vote:

Vote: XReyoX

[omg_im_innocent_wtf]

guh.... anyone that thinks i have written anything so far that is in any way defensive please read and reread posts 49 and 50.

if you still dont understand it please ask about the bit you dont understand. sorry but i honestly cant think of a way to make it clearer.

[omg_im_innocent_wtf]

if you are just skimming my posts then please at least read these two lines:

"at that point, i could hypothetically say that "even if i am the mafia, we should still lynch the cultist because he is more dangerous to the village". note that in no point am i even considering the fact that i am mafia because obviously i would know that i wasnt. however, i bring up that case because it is essentially something like a 'worst case scenario'. if we shouldnt lynch me in that spot when i am mafia then obviously we shouldnt ever lynch me in that spot.

this is similar to what i was saying, in that if we should discuss strat even in the worst case scenario where everyone is sure im a scum, then obviously we should discuss strat first in any spot."

[omg_im_innocent_wtf]

at that point i had already informed reyo that she had misunderstood my post, either through my post not being clear enough or her misreading it.

from there she continued to push a point she knew was incorrect in order to push suspicion on me further. there is no question because she knew at that point the latter part of her question was irrefutably correct, unless she hasnt been bothering to pay attention to the thread at all.

thus the question was only aimed for pushing suspicion on me and was not genuine at all.

[omg_im_innocent_wtf]

i said before this game even began that regardless of role i was going to be much more patient. which is why im accepting that the reason ppl misunderstood my post is most likely in part due to me not being clear enough in what i said, and why i am taking the time to actually explain what i meant so there can me no further misunderstandings.

but yeah generally:

thinking im evil because im posting a lot + being more patient than in other games - ok, your entitled to your opinion.

thinking im evil because ive been overdefensive/thought there was a possibility that everyone was sure i was scum - no. this is not valid and simply wrong. i havent made one defensive post so far and anyone that thinks this has just completely misunderstood my posts.

[omg_im_innocent_wtf]

at that point i had already informed reyo that she had misunderstood my post, either through my post not being clear enough or her misreading it.

from there she continued to push a point she knew was incorrect in order to push suspicion on me further. there is no question because she knew at that point the latter part of her question was irrefutably correct, unless she hasnt been bothering to pay attention to the thread at all.

thus the question was only aimed for pushing suspicion on me and was not genuine at all.

she already knew your point...she was asking someone else to take a stand. it is totally irrelevant whether she knew how she would have answered, the question was still meant to force another to take a stand on an issue. Im not saying its necessarily town, but what about it is scummy?

ok consider this, i post the following question:

"elias, please comment on whether you think reyo is scum based on the fact that she claimed scum 2 pages ago?"

the thing is that she never did claim scum 2 pages ago. the question is loaded and based on a false premise. it only serves to encourage you to think she is scum, based on false information.

[omg_im_innocent_wtf]

fine, here is a better example:

"elias, do you think reyo has been overdefensive so far or do you think she is just being misundersttod?"

would that be ok for me to post?

[omg_im_innocent_wtf]

fine, here is a better example:

"elias, do you think reyo has been overdefensive so far or do you think she is just being misundersttod?"

would that be ok for me to post?

no, because its still not a similar situation, as the assertion "reyo is being overdefensive" has not been widely made. At the point at which Reyo asked, 2-3 people had accused you of it, therefore making it a major issue in the game and worthy of a query.

they had accused me of it sure. but i then clarified it for those people that misread my post. which means that noone could possibly think that at the point her post was made.

[omg_im_innocent_wtf]

Whether or not posting too much is scummy might be disputable, but posting every single time anyone posts anything that could be considered as an attack with a detailed refutation just turns the thread into "OMG vs. everyone". And while that tells us a lot about OMG, we do need to consider other people too, since there are three bad guys out there already.

To comment on the one non-omg name that's come up, I must say I don't see where the Reyo accusation's coming from at all. He may have said other stuff that'd be worth a vote, but the bit OMG quoted wasn't it to me.

i have no problem with someone attacking me if it makes sense. if you were to say "omg has been suspicious in his bandwagon hopping today" and i actually had then there would be no refutation.

otoh, if you say "omg is being really overdefensive" when i havent posted a single defensive comment, then obviously i need to clarify it so you understand.

[omg_im_innocent_wtf]

OMG: I think people are questioning the reason why you used the possibility that people believe you are scum to proof your point in the first place.

ok

I never considered it a possibility.

I never considered it a possibility.

I never considered it a possibility.

I never considered it a possibility.

I never considered it a possibility.

I never considered it a possibility.

I never considered it a possibility.

I never considered it a possibility.

Read post 49. I dont understand why this is so hard for you to understand.

[omg_im_innocent_wtf]

What amuses me here is that OMG has in fact become overdefensive in my opinion. You have gone out of your way to prove the 'I'm 100% not mafia' post was not overdefensive, but in the process of proving your point, I think, you have gone far enough over the top to be called overdefensive.

It is one thing to post a refuting post, and then discuss what else is going on, but every point that comes up you seem to repeat the same thing, to the point of overdefensiveness. In the case of XreyoX's question, you don't need to push that fact that is wasn't overdefensive so much. Elias makes a vaild point in that it was prompting a lurker, but you constantly bang on about your innocence, like I've banged on about the same thing this post.

Also I would like to know why you felt the necessity to say that straight off the bat, nobody was accusing you. I simply can't wrap my head around why you felt you were so threatened. Yes I have read your lengthy discourse on why saying that wasn't defensive, but the timing is what I am questioning.

I'm beginning to feel that this constant noise may in fact be a deflection tactic, plus it really isn't helping with half of the thread being devoted to your protests of innocnece.

FoS: OMG

i have not yet made a defensive post.

find one post of mine that is defensive at all. i have simply been clarifying my post because somehow people still dont understand it. i have no idea how to make it clearer at this point.

[omg_im_innocent_wtf]

ok, reyo and anyone else that still doesnt understand what i said, replace what i said with:

"if everyone is 100% sure reyo is mafia/cultist, it STILL makes sense in such a role filled game for us to first discuss tactics. and logic is logic, regardless of anyones role."

it means exactly the same thing. i was talking about the game in general. please just sit back and think about this for five minutes it is really pretty simple. if still confused, reread post 49 and others.

to anyone that says i am being/have been defensive:

defensiveness = you accuse me of something i have done, i refute that and explain why.

clarifying = you dont understand what i have said, i try to explain it to you.

note the difference.

[omg_im_innocent_wtf]

err correction to votecount: im voting for reyo. ive never cast a vote for blaze.

just in case:

Unvote, Vote xReyox

fixed, in the future, please bold corrections if I should make them, thanks

[omg_im_innocent_wtf]

Reyo - You have done more to make me suspect you than anyone else in the game so far. i believe you understood my post earlier than you made out. i believe your question to blaze was also loaded and not genuine, and only aimed to generate further suspicion and confusion about me.

If i have a more solid reason to vote someone else i certainly will, and i would not be willing to hammer you *right now* if that was the situation.

[omg_im_innocent_wtf]

Also, we're not guarenteed either a cop or a doc.

Realistically with a godfather in the game the % chance of there not being a cop is almost negligible.

The fact that doc was used in the initial post is the only reason I believe a doc is in the game, but yes i agree that we need to consider the possibility we have none.

[omg_im_innocent_wtf]

Could someone please do something scummy so we could at least start getting some bandwagon analysis?

[omg_im_innocent_wtf]

elias - lol @ you.

you started by voting me.

then you threatened you were going to vote me (whilst still voting me).

then just now you unvoted me, and voted me.

amusing imo.

[omg_im_innocent_wtf]

suggesting that lalaland is scum for that comment is pretty lol imo.

that said, i would like to at least put pressure on someone to see what happens, and lalaland does seem to be lurking.

unvote, vote lalaland

[omg_im_innocent_wtf]

btw lol oman i think everyone misread that post.

i thought you were making a general comment as in 'there is no way that the mod would have put a godfather in this game.

[omg_im_innocent_wtf]

Oman, thanks for your reply.
You haven't commented on my suggested strategy of forbidding claims (except cops with guilty(s)) until a certain point when we mass claim. Isn't that better than trying to mix the proper blend of WIFOM?

omg: How exactly do you feel that you put pressure on someone when you vote her at the same time as saying the vote isn't sound?

it already got her to post. if other people start magically appearing to vote her also then it gives us something to work with as well. for example someone who never mentioned lala that suddenly finds a reason to put a 4th/5th vote on her is usually pretty dodgy. btw, thanks for making me explain this because now it really WILL be useless but please remember this in future.

im just trying to get something happening in this game.

Oman: None of us (including scums) know whether there is a doc except the doc himself. So someone claiming a powerrole doesn't mean the scum would target him that night, no? I understand that claiming will not always work (in any reasonable setup). I just want to point out that fake claiming make the game easier. So i suggest people should either not claim at all or think not just twice but everything through before deciding to claim.

omg: How exactly do you feel that you put pressure on someone when you vote her at the same time as saying the vote isn't sound?

At least I think he realize I'm not scum XD

not a snowballs chance in hell reyo. =)


btw, all - just a heads up, i dont think there is much point in me claiming at all. anyone that has played with me before knows i think lynch all liars is complete crap and would make up whatever role i felt best suited me. for example, if i am a roleblocker i would probly claim townie, if i was townie i would claim doc, if i was scum i can just pick from the 2, if i was cultist then i probably claim townie again lol.

[omg_im_innocent_wtf]

anyone that has played with me before knows i think lynch all liars is complete crap and would make up whatever role i felt best suited me. for example, if i am a roleblocker i would probly claim townie, if i was townie i would claim doc, if i was scum i can just pick from the 2, if i was cultist then i probably claim townie again lol.

Perhap thats the reason why people get pissed of at you when you're town. Also, by saying you've an inconsistence playstyle before making a fake claim doesn't make you less scummy in my view.Confusing a few scums together with a whole lot of townie isn't a wise choice I believe.

Do you even read my posts?

At what point in that entire post did i say that i was 'less scummy' at all? I dont even reference the role i have in this game at all, and am talking about my overall metagame.

I am being very patient but when you continuously skim my posts and misrepresent or misunderstand every single thing i say it becomes increasingly frustrating and wastes space and time in this game.

Unvote, Vote Reyo

for continuous anti-town behavior.

[omg_im_innocent_wtf]

No you didn't. But if you are to claim at some point, you're probly going to fake claim, aren't you? I'm just trying to point out that once people have found that you've fake claim, saying "I've told you that I'm going to fake claim early in the game" won't make you less scummy than a scum fakeclaiming. I'm suggesting you not to do it.

Im not saying it to appear less scummy. Im saying it to demonstrate the ineffectiveness of someone like me claiming day 1.

Im not saying it to appear less scummy. Im saying it to demonstrate the ineffectiveness of someone like me claiming day 1.

Im not saying it to appear less scummy. Im saying it to demonstrate the ineffectiveness of someone like me claiming day 1.

Im not saying it to appear less scummy. Im saying it to demonstrate the ineffectiveness of someone like me claiming day 1.

Im not saying it to appear less scummy. Im saying it to demonstrate the ineffectiveness of someone like me claiming day 1.

Im not saying it to appear less scummy. Im saying it to demonstrate the ineffectiveness of someone like me claiming day 1.

Im not saying it to appear less scummy. Im saying it to demonstrate the ineffectiveness of someone like me claiming day 1.


This honestly seems to be the only way anything goes through.

[omg_im_innocent_wtf]

Ok. Ill simplify it one time for you guys. This will be the only clarifying post i make on this matter so please just bother to read it.

FACT 1: In this game, it makes theoretical sense to not claim your true role, in most roles fakeclaiming is of benefit.

FACT 2: I am a player who plays to win and has no qualms about lying.

this amazingly enough leads us to,

FACT 3: As I would lie in most roles, there is no point to me claiming day 1 as it couldnt be believed and wouldnt tell you anything about my role.

This has nothing to do with 'being less scummy' or anything else reyo is talking about. It is not really that hard to understand provided you have taken english past a high school level and spend 20 seconds reading a post before commenting on it.

[omg_im_innocent_wtf]

ty for more eloquently making the point i was trying to explain blaze. you dont feel like being my omg -> reyo translator do you? if you could just summarise my posts after i post for those that arent reading them correctly?

for those that seem to have a problem understanding my posts, i think it must be that some of you are just skimming them because i post so much, that post by blaze is exactly what i was trying to say.

with the exception of those players who have a metagame of 'never lying' claiming becomes a levelling exercise and thus claiming is relatively pointless.

[omg_im_innocent_wtf]

Fos: Norinel + Friend of Old

both tried to jump on my bandwagon with crap logic when it looked like i may get lynched, now they have been exposed they both suddenly decide to vote elsewhere.

[omg_im_innocent_wtf]

(im not suggesting that they are a scum team, rather that both just appear scummy btw. particularly FoO)

[omg_im_innocent_wtf]

I'm keeping my vote on OMG for trying to paint Norinel as a bandwagoning scum when in fact it was a semi-random vote.

Unvote, Vote: GSGold

This was written right after i called out the 2 others for jumping on my bandwagon.

1. This looks to me like: 'Hey, Im not moving off, Im not scum'.

2. It is craplogic when thought about, particularly as I mentioned that I was in particular suspicious of Friend of Old and just included Norinel as he had done the same thing.

3. Constant lurking, and joining my bandwagon at an opportunistic time in the first place.

This is the first vote Im actually pretty happy with.

[omg_im_innocent_wtf]

Hmm. I'll wait for OMG's response on that one. My feeling is he didnt realize that Norinel had been voting him before the wagon, as scum doesnt really gain anything from making such an easily refutable accusation. And therefore its a nulltell.

As for the other things going on...I really should reread. I'll get back to you guys on that.

This is also true.

I realised a bunch of guys had jumped on, and when I called them out and it became obvious there was scum on my wagon, I noticed two of them suddenly unvoted me. I didnt know the original reasoning behind Norinel's vote. I still feel it is marginally suspicious however to 'get out' at that time, though obviously nowhere near as much as for Friend of Old.

Note: I would not have noticed this as any role so Elias is correct that this is a nulltell.

[omg_im_innocent_wtf]

I'm still a fan of an OMG lynch. The guy is all over the place. That last bit about Noriel was obviously a horrid defence.

XReyoX - STOP TALKING ABOUT CLAIMING! It doesn't matter because a fake claim could be helpful, but a real claim is helpful for the WIFOM. WE CAN'T DISCUSS IT, BECAUSE THE MAFIA AND CULT WILL KNOW AND THEN ITS VOID! WE NEED TO MMMMIIIISSSLLLLLEEEEEAAAADDDDD THEM!

In short Claiming = STFU!

omfg.

de·fense /dɪˈfɛns or, esp. for 7, 9, ˈdifɛns/ Pronunciation Key - Show Spelled Pronunciation[di-fens or, esp. for 7, 9, dee-fens] Pronunciation Key - Show IPA Pronunciation noun, verb, -fensed, -fens·ing.
–noun
1. resistance against attack; protection: Two more regiments are needed for the defense of the city.
2. something that defends, as a fortification, physical or mental quality, or medication: This fort was once the main defense of the island.
3. the defending of a cause or the like by speech, argument, etc.: He spoke in defense of the nation's foreign policy.
4. a speech, argument, etc., in vindication: She delivered a defense of free enterprise

[omg_im_innocent_wtf]

Basically comedy really, sometimes I dont even know if you guys are even serious or are just trying to annoy me with such silliness.

Me: I think this guy is a scum for this reason.
Random player: Wow thats a terrible defense man. Your all over the place.

[omg_im_innocent_wtf]

Elias - This isnt an fos etc, but i agree that i do get a general vibe from your posts of manipulative scum. im not going to give a direct example because i cant think of one, but i do get a general feeling of scumminess from you and have since early on in this game.

For clarification, this isnt an fos or anything close to a vote, as even if my feeling was stronger i still feel that you are active and logical so far and thus probably good to have around if you are town; however i feel there is some general validity to what Xtoxm is saying, from a third and more objective party. Take that for what you will.

[omg_im_innocent_wtf]

Elias - This isnt an fos etc, but i agree that i do get a general vibe from your posts of manipulative scum.

WISHY WASHY!

yeah ok another great post from oman.

[omg_im_innocent_wtf]

This wagon has grown way too fast for my liking.

Im pretty happy to kill oman or FoO instead, thoughts?

[omg_im_innocent_wtf]

unvote, vote oman

[omg_im_innocent_wtf]

no

[omg_im_innocent_wtf]

omg: you haven't explained why you were voting GSGold, and now you are voting oman without any explanation.

u suck.

unvote; vote omg_im_innocent_wtf

It really troubles me that nobody can tell me why the wagon on GSGold happened. And I note that omg was the first to vote him.

yes i had

yes i have

you are a retard

that is all.

[omg_im_innocent_wtf]

Right, this is getting irritating now, omg this is the second time you just come out and randomly pointed the finger, this time with a vote. You even have clearly stated that you refuse to give reasons, which is completely pointless. Earlier on you were snapping at people for differences of opinion, which are both inevitable and useful because the arguement could flush out a scum or protect a townie, and now you are refusing to contribute anything useful, which is as bad, if not worse than lurking.

Your style of play has become counter-productive to the town, and to be perfectly honest if you don't sort yourself out and start being helpful sharpish, I'll be glad to be rid of you no matter the outcome.

Unvote, Vote: OMG

Im voting for a scum.

You are voting for a pro-town.

Therefore I am better for town than you. Just saying

[omg_im_innocent_wtf]

btw, seeing as how i always cop it any time i say anything that could even remotely be considered offensive can something be done about this retarded puppy clown? at least a warning for abusive play? i have received more for doing much much less.

if nothing else i have remained civil this whole game.

[omg_im_innocent_wtf]

Right, this is getting irritating now, omg this is the second time you just come out and randomly pointed the finger, this time with a vote. You even have clearly stated that you refuse to give reasons, which is completely pointless. Earlier on you were snapping at people for differences of opinion, which are both inevitable and useful because the arguement could flush out a scum or protect a townie, and now you are refusing to contribute anything useful, which is as bad, if not worse than lurking.

Your style of play has become counter-productive to the town, and to be perfectly honest if you don't sort yourself out and start being helpful sharpish,

I'll be glad to be rid of you no matter the outcome.

Unvote, Vote: OMG

btw, whilst most of this post is just insane useless babble like 99% of his posts have been so far, there is one interesting point he has made.

FoO is openly admitting that he is voting for me whilst knowing that im town.

this implies that a) he is in a position to have a good guess at my role, and b) he is obviously not of pro-town alliance.

therefore he is more likely a scum than a cultist i guess, as they know 2 roles rather than 1.

think about that when im dead tmr as it appears i will be.

[omg_im_innocent_wtf]

omg: you haven't explained why you were voting GSGold, and now you are voting oman without any explanation.

u suck.

unvote; vote omg_im_innocent_wtf

It really troubles me that nobody can tell me why the wagon on GSGold happened. And I note that omg was the first to vote him.

yes i had

yes i have

you are a retard

that is all.

Why do we let 12 year olds on MS?

dude what is your problem?

i have been so patient this entire time. i have given reasons and explained everything, often repeatedly and very very clearly.

and yet i am still receiving personal attacks and claims that i am useless/anti-town. what more do you people want from me? just tell me.

[omg_im_innocent_wtf]

i really really have no idea what i can do.

i have tried being patient. i have tried being ultra nice.

i realise that not everyone on this site is as intelligent as me and what i am used to, and some of you have other difficulties english as a second language etc. so i have really tried so hard to be a good guy. i have tried to find scum, analyse strategy and win this game. why am i still receiving personal attacks and claims of uselessness/anti-town behavior?

[omg_im_innocent_wtf]

how am i anti-town?

[omg_im_innocent_wtf]

no answer?

oman - serious questions. how old are you? do you have any sort of mental disabilities? (this is not meant to offend at all, just so i know what i am dealing with here. simple 16/no would be all i need)

[omg_im_innocent_wtf]

well if im not mistaken thats about the most anti-town post ive ever seen in my life. lol.

and no i wont 'stfu'. tell me how i am 'anti-town', or 'useless' or 'all over the place' in any way when i have been the most pro-town player in the game for the first 10+ pages and am still being wagonned. if you cant do that then you are either a) scum, or b) as retarded as puppy.

[omg_im_innocent_wtf]

btw if you seriously find those questions offensive at all, then i can tell you that yes they were completely genuine because in your posts i see no intelligence whatsoever and i want to know if it is worth trying to engage in discussion with you.

also, calling me a 'useless 12 year old' is much much worse than me asking 'how old are you'. just saying.

[omg_im_innocent_wtf]

no answer?

oman - serious questions. how old are you? do you have any sort of mental disabilities? (this is not meant to offend at all, just so i know what i am dealing with here. simple 16/no would be all i need)

That's out of order. Mental disabilities?! This is a game. Don't start insulting people on a personal level. If you'd said that to me i'd have most probably requested replacement.

i was attacked on a personal level twice before making that post, and i just asked a question. i never said he actually had a disability. i was simply checking because like i said so far oman has done nothing in this game but post pointless crap and make personal attacks on me. i just wanted to make sure i didnt start defending myself to a 12 year old or someone actually incapable of discussion.

plus i was pretty drunk at that point so whatever.

[omg_im_innocent_wtf]

anyway, omans reaction did appear kind of angry townish.... so im gonna jump on FoO. like i said, im not happy with the speed of the GS wagon and i certainly know that im not scum.

so far he has been completely useless to the town, and is trying to get me lynched whilst acknowledging that he knows im a pro-town player.

Unvote, Vote FoO

[omg_im_innocent_wtf]

Also, BM, i stopped reading your post at:

His next post reeks of paranoia. Im not sure where he drew the conclusion that Elias suspected him of being scum, but his reaction leaves me completely bemused.

If you are not even going to bother to try to understand something that has been clarified about 6 times already im not going to go back over it with you. Its not my job to hold the hands and walk people through this game if they cant be bothered to put in any effort at all.

[omg_im_innocent_wtf]

Ok i tried a little more, but this is just frustrating to read how ridiculous that post is.

Post 50 is another false dilemma brought up by OMG. Its perhaps the most pathetically obvious mafia excuse I’ve ever seen. You think that, if we had 7 players, including 1 mafia and a cult recruiter, we would choose NOT to lynch the mafia member? Or perhaps more worryingly, you don’t seem to have quite got to grips with the fact that the Cult is an enemy of the town AS WELL AS the Mafia. Note how he aptly neglects to mention the possibility of him being a member of the former.

Please please just go use a dictionary yourself and find out what the words 'analogy' and 'hypothetical' mean. Please just put in 5 minutes of effort. If you still dont understand then by all means ask me and we can waste another 3 pages with me explaining it to you.

[omg_im_innocent_wtf]

I should probably address this tho:

In post 104 he again assumes that the mafia defo have a GF. Is this deliberately misleading the town, or is he revealing info? The latter seems more likely imo.

When I first read the original post (I dont play on this site much), I read it as: "Mafia PM's: then two mafia pms below". I was under the impression that as there were 2 mafia in the game, and 2 mafia pms listed, that those were the 2 pms that were sent out to mafia. I assumed from the OP that the role setup was 1 cultist, 1 mafia goon, 1 mafia godfather, and then an unknown amount of village power roles to enable those bad guys to claim easier. I also further assumed that if there was a godfather in the game then there must also be a cop, otherwise the godfather role would be useless. I mention this in my earlier posts.

I didnt realise my mistake until someone said later on that there was actually virtually no chance a godfather was in this game, and thus there was quite possibly no cop either. It was only then that I realised that they were just sample mafia pms, imo this was kind of unclear because the OP says 'Mafia PMs:', not 'Sample Mafia PMs' but whatever.

I didnt want to discuss this earlier, because I felt it would be really angleshooty and unfair to the real scum, as if i didnt know this then I am pretty much 100% town/cultist. I was quite happy to let it go and just play on without taking the unfair advantage of angleshooting.

However, as unbelievable as it is someone is actually reading this as a 'scumtell', I feel I should address it now. You forced my hand, I do apologise to the real scum but it was a simple misunderstanding.

[omg_im_innocent_wtf]

actually maybe im being a bit harsh.... it is just really frustrating for me when every post i make in my everyday language is not understood.

i again will promise to try to simplify things in future, and will try to explain what an analogy is now quickly so maybe you guys can understand my earlier posts a little better. Dictionary.com says an anology is "a form of reasoning in which one thing is inferred to be similar to another thing in a certain respect, on the basis of the known similarity between the things in other respects."

Ok lets say we are having a debate on whether or not downloading movies online illegally is morally ok. (Note: we are not actually having this debate, im merely using this as an example to show you how analogys are used.)

I could potentially make the argument, that 'Downloading movies is immoral and wrong'. (again, note that im not actually making this argument, it is just part of the example)

I could then use a hypothetical situation as an analogy. I could say that someone who downloads movies for free is similar to someone who steals a car. (Note: Again, I am NOT saying anyone here including myself downloads movies for free or steals cars)

What I am doing is showing that in general our society says stealing is wrong, and downloading movies illegally is technically stealing. Many people choose to accept one and not the other, and what the analogy does is say "Hey, why is this situation (dl movies) ok for you and this situation (stealing a car) not ok? They are both theft and thus analogous."

I hope you get it now, if not please let me know. I will be as patient as I possibly can. I cant think of a way to make this simpler right now.

To reiterate: I am not saying that I condone or support stealing movies/cars. I am not saying that anyone here has stolen cars/movies. I am simply using this conceptual tool to get people to reconsider what they believe and support my own argument.

[omg_im_innocent_wtf]

I will also simplify and summarise my posts in the game thus far, so anyone still not clear can understand. If you have trouble understanding my posts (which is my fault as much as anyone elses), then please just reference this post:

1. Early I suggested we should discuss strategy in the game.

2. Following this I suggested that discussing strategy in the game was more important than seeking scum.

3. I then suggested Reyo was being anti-town in his behaviour (I was unaware english was not reyos first language and have since retracted this stance).

4. I then moved to suggest that we pressure a lurker in lalaland.

5. Following this I suggested that there must be some scum on my wagon, and fosed Norinel+FoO (in particular FoO)

6. I then pointed out GSGold was lurking, had a scummy post (refusing to get off my wagon using craplogic, essentially trying to appear town, and cast my first serious vote on GSGold.

7. Everyone instantly agreed with me and we had a wagon on GSGold grow very fast. I believed that this was very suspicious as usually lynching scum has more traction, and thus moved to other targets of Oman + FoO, who have both been basically useless and anti-town in their behaviours thus far.

8. I found Oman's reaction to my vote on him fairly townish, so have now moved to FoO.

Do not reference any posts before this one if they do not fit with this post.

I am getting tired of wasting space explaining everything. So just look at this post for full explanations of all my actions thus far. Everything here is very black and white and I dont see how any of it could be misconstrued.

Again, I promise I will try to be clearer in future.

[omg_im_innocent_wtf]

rofl @ the idea of me and elias being scum together.

man that would have been fun.

battle mage - do you or do you not understand what an analogy is? you made it clear repeatedly in your earlier post that you didnt understand the language i was using, and thats fair enough, i should have been clearer. the misunderstandings are basically both our faults, and like i said i will not use such complex language again (i am used to playing with ppl that speak similarly to myself).

please reread post 339 and nothing else. explain to me which of my actions there is scummy. anything that isnt in post 339 YOU HAVE NOT UNDERSTOOD. i cant make this clearer for you. im not going to waste everyones time spending 3 pages explaining each little thing. im sorry for writing in complex language earlier and i will not write in such language again.

please address post 339 and then explain your vote.

[omg_im_innocent_wtf]

btw if i had to guess, i would say:

FoO + Elias are scum.

Unsure on the cultist right now. There are too many totally insane anti-town players in this game to pick it.

[omg_im_innocent_wtf]

Actually, you know what, lynching a townie is a great result for us today. It saves our power roles from claiming, and it means the cultist is completely in the dark tonite.

Also, and more importantly - If i wasnt to die, any cultist with an IQ >50 would be able to see that i was obviously a townie given my earlier give away about not being scum, and would recruit me tonight.

So much right now is confusing as heck because people cant see for sure that I am pro-town. Some people are having a lot of trouble understanding the things I have written, and I think things would be a lot clearer if I was dead and proven townie. Then you can all look back on today and actually look at who was pushing me with craplogic (FoO), and who was defending me with no reason (Elias).

This may be unorthodox, but this is not me giving up, this is me truly doing what I feel is best for the village, me surviving today ensures I get recruited tonite and thus makes a town victory very difficult. Gl guys, someone hammer please.

Unvote, Vote: Omg_im_innocent_wtf

Also - Mod please pm me the roles of scum/cultist after I die, my final guess is:

Scum - FoO, Elias
Cultist - Battle Mage

[omg_im_innocent_wtf]

Also and finally - I do swear that if I play any future games on here I will simplify my language from the beginning, I was unaware that things like analogies and hypothetical situations were so confusing/unknown to the general public and for the oversight I apologise.

[omg_im_innocent_wtf]

im timewarping here.

I'm sure OMG still thinks I am retarded. But I think that he should reevaluate his play style if his behavior always gets him lynched as town. He seems to think he is always right and anyone who disagrees with him is retarded. Nobody is always right. And I don't think anyone on this site is retarded, or even of below-average intelligence.

I never really thought you were retarded. It just annoys me when I am doing all I can to be patient and nice and I still receive personal attacks from yourself and Oman.

You attacked me, so I (partially because of how drunk I was) attacked you back. You apologised and withdrew your comment, and Im withdrawing mine. Lets move on.

[omg_im_innocent_wtf]

rofl @ the idea of me and elias being scum together.

man that would have been fun.

battle mage - do you or do you not understand what an analogy is? you made it clear repeatedly in your earlier post that you didnt understand the language i was using, and thats fair enough, i should have been clearer. the misunderstandings are basically both our faults, and like i said i will not use such complex language again (i am used to playing with ppl that speak similarly to myself).

please reread post 339 and nothing else. explain to me which of my actions there is scummy. anything that isnt in post 339 YOU HAVE NOT UNDERSTOOD. i cant make this clearer for you. im not going to waste everyones time spending 3 pages explaining each little thing. im sorry for writing in complex language earlier and i will not write in such language again.

please address post 339 and then explain your vote.

lol im not an idiot. I know what an analogy is. I just dont understand how you think that your suicidal strategies can be excused by using the 'a' word. Give me some context to work from please.

BM

Ok. Then clearly you just chose to skim my earlier posts before commenting on them, in particular post 50 in which I bring up a hypothetical situation to add to an earlier argument and you somehow infer from it that i am 'not accepting the possibility of being cultist'.

I assumed that it was because you didnt understand the terms, but its obviously because you simply skimmed my posts when making that long post. Please reread post 50 and others, in the context of the dialogue that was taking place at the time.

[omg_im_innocent_wtf]

Guys, if enough people really want to then I can unvote myself, but consider this:

Cultist WILL recruit me tonight if I remain alive. This means that if I am alive tomorrow I will need to be lynched then. Honestly if you still consider there to be a chance that I am mafia you are simply mistaken, and in a tiny minority. There is no way I could have planned that earlier angleshoot and the cultist knows it. To any impartial party reading this game there are only two possible roles I could be doing this as: Townie + Cultist. Im assuming the cultist at least knows this by now.

My death will clear up a LOT of confusion from today.

Most importantly: NO POWER ROLES have had to reveal. That is pretty crucial in this game.

At the start of the day when i was analysing this game i really thought that killing a townie with noone claimed would be a great result for the town, and I stand by that now. Things could go a lot worse than me dying here, and my detractors will come out in force tomorrow.

[omg_im_innocent_wtf]

Just want to point out that OMG and Elias can still both be scum even if they are not scum together. One can be mafia and the other cultist. Problem solved!

Is omg going to unvote himself?

My vote is on the person whose death I believe will bring most benefit to the town given the situation.

Feel free to dispute post 397 if you believe otherwise.

[omg_im_innocent_wtf]

Also, this post is like the exact opposite of correct:

lol. that about wraps it up i think. You are Mafia. (cult recruiter would not risk suicide like this). If you seriously thought the cult would try and recruit you, you are actually crazy. You are so obviously scum, its untrue, and i think the bussing implicates ur buddy as Elias.

to a logical player, i am never mafia here. if you honestly believe that i could be then you either are mafia yourself or have ridiculous blinders.

to a logical player, i would ALWAYS fake suicide here as cultist in an attempt to clear myself. it is for THIS reason that i must be lynched..

to a cultist, i am obviously not mafia and obviously not a power role to make this play, thus i am a guaranteed recruit at night.

this is just fact. im sorry but it is. it is undebatable to any logical person that has actually read this game thoroughly.

To every logical person except myself, I am either townie and cultist tomorrow (after being recruited at night), or cultist today fpsing. thus i must be lynched.

[omg_im_innocent_wtf]

I agree with OMG. but i think its kind of silly that hes defending himself from BMs accusation givne that fact.

not really defending.

saying 'omg is the cultist and must be lynched' = fair enough

saying 'omg is probably townie but still the best lynch' = fair enough

saying 'omg is scum' = ridiculous. anyone saying this has blinders, is scum/cultist themselves, or simply hasnt been reading the game thoroughly (im leaving out the chance of stupidity because anyone with an intelligence so low as to actually read this game through and come to the conclusion that i could be scum i doubt would have the intelligence necessary to be able to type)