Mini 559 - Cult Mafia again - Game over

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d12 = 1016563314

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^ does that mean I have to vote myself?

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Omg: curiouskarmadog has stated that there could be 2-4 town powerroles in the game-setup thread. So the max number of vanilla is 7.

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I can see how omg came up with the "might as well lynch the claimed-townie cos he will be cultified if we don't" strategy. The no claims at all strategy proposed by dahem could confuse the scums but it would be harder for the other towns to find the scums as well because claimed townie-scum interaction is a vital piece of evidence for spotting scum in most games.

I think the best way to approach this is for the vanilla to claim ONLY when he can free himself from the lynch _AND_ direct it to whom he strongly believes is scum. Otherwise, claiming would hurt the town more than the others. Use claiming as the very last resource.

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I'm not sure about fake claiming. Townie claiming Doc would draw suspicion from the real one( which leads to lynching?). Confusing the scums is good strat. But you have to weigh in the confusion it can cause on the town as well.

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what is CC?

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Unless someone conterclaim, its hard for others to know whether they're lying i think, at least for me. I'm still against the idea of townie fake claiming.

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Vote: Blazerunner

until he speaks.

OMG, I don't think we'll have to discuss strat anymore if we're all 100% sure you are scum. But I get your point.

My strat is *Vote: scum*. nice and simple. XD

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I just realized that doc can prevent cultification. So I don't think lynch-claimed-townie strat is a good idea.

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Blaze: The reason why ppl random vote at the beginning of the game is to encourage disscusion. No discussions are pointless. You could sometimes work out the real intension of the people who start or join them.

So, do you think OMG was overdefensive, or others were just misunderstanding him?

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Currently I'm dealing with my idiot brothers rampage with my account while I was out of town.

Would that be a reason why you might be making scummy posts in the future (your idiot brothers messing with your account) ?

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OMG: I think people are questioning the reason why you used the possibility that people believe you are scum to proof your point in the first place.

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OMG: As mentioned by elias, I asked blaze what he thinks so that I would know his stance on the issue. I appologize for not phrasing the question so that its more open ended( i.e. what you think about omg's post). But other than agreeing with some people who says you're overdefensive or agreeing with you who says peoples are misunderstanding you, I didn't think of a third option where someone can stand.

Elias: I would assume that there is a doc, (see sample town power role by the mod). Of course there is no guarentee that there will be any specific power role at all. There could be ...oh 4 role blockers... but how likely is that? XD

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Blaze: I disagree with using your strategy. The simple fact that lynching is our only chance for eliminating scums and the more important fact that reading the interaction between the lynchee and other people is vital clues make me go against no-lynch.

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Important note:

I'm a he, read the gender icon!

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Ghost: I understand that it seems people are reading too much into trivial things. It makes me think why people bother defending this and that when they don't really matter. Are they overdefensive? and sometime make me think whether it's scums trying to pick on a town even when people start voting/fosing others for minor things. But I guess it's the way to start the game rolling. I don't tend to read too much at the beginning tho.

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So are you going to join this discussion or not?

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Arg... This is getting irritating. OMG: When did I, Reyo, ever mentioned that I think you are overdefensive? Also, if a message is not going across, its never going to even if you repeat it 10 times in a post. Try a different approach if you must, although I don't think it's necessary.

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BTW, are you still voting me because I tried to ask blaze to give us some input? I think you're misunderstand me more than the other way round really =_=

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Blaze: your strat won't work because mafia could easily fake claim to be that cop of yours. If two/ more people claimed cop, who will you believe? Bare in mind that there could also be some stupid townies who would decide to join this fake-claiming thing. If you aren't a complete newbie, I would be fosing you for 1) suggesting no-lynch on D1 to maximize the chance for the cult leader to sucessfully recruit a town and 2) suggesting the cop to claim on D2 regardless on what they've found (giving away another piece of info to the scums).

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OMG: There is no godfather in this game for sure.

Why? have you read the mod's post?

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Could someone please do something scummy so we could at least start getting some bandwagon analysis?

Scum awaiting for an opportunity to bandwagon, eh?

I am in the same position as you, i dont know who to vote for

You might not know who to vote for because no one has committed any major scumtell. But you should at least pick on a few threads and say whether you agree or disagree with them so that we know where you stand. The posts you've made aren't exactly useful to be honest.

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@ elias. Why are you voting OMG?

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dahen: Ihe reason I haven't comment on your vote is because oman hasn't replied yet. I usually let people explain/ defend for themselves first to see where they're going. As for you, starting a wagon in my opinion is not scummy (unless the points made are ridiculous). Scums usually tend to be those who make excuses to join the wagon. I've read all the post but I'm just poor at digging scumtells out at the beginning of the game.

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Just wondering, who hasn't talked too much yet?

lalaland?

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oman:
I'm sorry. I still don't see how it would be beneficial for town to claim doc and doc to claim town. Yup, the existence of a cult means role-claiming would benefit them as well unless the leader is dead. However, i believe the confusion you would cause the town by fake claiming would outweigh the benefit from confusing the scums. In my opinion, your suggestion for doc claiming town and town claiming is an unwise tactic / scumplay.

Also, I'm wondering where this comes from:

OMG: There is no godfather in this game for sure.

When mod has stated that:

[quote="curiouskarmadogThere are exactly 3 different factions in this game: a Cult (one person to start), a 2 man Mafia team (possibly with power roles), and a T (with 2-4 poweroles).
[/quote]

This, to me, looks like you've either misread the mod's post or you're scum to be so sure.

Dahen: I think his vote on bladerunner is fair though. It doesn't look scummy to me, more like encouraging discussion since blade hasn't got a wagon yet and it's unlikely to build up to a lynch with his vote.

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Oman: None of us (including scums) know whether there is a doc except the doc himself. So someone claiming a powerrole doesn't mean the scum would target him that night, no? I understand that claiming will not always work (in any reasonable setup). I just want to point out that fake claiming make the game easier. So i suggest people should either not claim at all or think not just twice but everything through before deciding to claim.

omg: How exactly do you feel that you put pressure on someone when you vote her at the same time as saying the vote isn't sound?

At least I think he realize I'm not scum XD

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lalaland: could you please state why you're voting OMG.. in your post, you said his posts are innocent yet he is the most suspicious. ???

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anyone that has played with me before knows i think lynch all liars is complete crap and would make up whatever role i felt best suited me. for example, if i am a roleblocker i would probly claim townie, if i was townie i would claim doc, if i was scum i can just pick from the 2, if i was cultist then i probably claim townie again lol.

Perhap thats the reason why people get pissed of at you when you're town. Also, by saying you've an inconsistence playstyle before making a fake claim doesn't make you less scummy in my view.Confusing a few scums together with a whole lot of townie isn't a wise choice I believe.

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I have mafia experience, not a total n00b, but 98% of that is from real life games, in which day one lynch always seems to be "You never paid me the dollar you borrowed from me two weeks ago" as the basis for a lynch.

I have played a few games on Conquer Club {see my sig} and in a current one, Day 1 went to page 40 something before a lynch was decided upon.
Although we are nowhere near close to 40something pages, I am going to try to avoid another one of those occurences.

By saying you're not a total noob, I would say suggesting a random lynch on D1 is a point against you.

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No you didn't. But if you are to claim at some point, you're probly going to fake claim, aren't you? I'm just trying to point out that once people have found that you've fake claim, saying "I've told you that I'm going to fake claim early in the game" won't make you less scummy than a scum fakeclaiming. I'm suggesting you not to do it.

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But how is that any different from the earlier general discussion on whether or not fakeclaiming is a good idea in this game? The setup kind of encourages it anyway, metagame or not.

The setup encourages people to think twice before they claim, not encourages fakeclaims to confuse the hell out of other townies.

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By claiming town as RB he prevents himself from being NKEd by scum first night.

This means the scum would have gone for someone else and that someone else could be a doc/ cop (more powerful power roles). And if later on in the game you've found a scum with your role blocking, it would be very difficult to convince other townie since you've lied at the beginning. If you've blocked a town power role previously, by not declaring you are one and whom you've blocked, they would think there is a mafia role-blocker as well.

if he claims doc while town he draws the kill away from power roles.

In this case, you'll draw more suspicion from the real doc if there is one. You might even cause the real doc to claim if he really think you're scum. Also, if a doc die after you've fakeclaim, unless you're really good, the chance you could talk yourself out of this is dim.

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This means the scum would have gone for someone else and that someone else could be a doc/ cop (more powerful power roles).

Its better to have that risk with the chance of hitting vanilla than a guaranteed lost roleblocker.[/quote]

This is only when you are assuming we haven't got a doc.

If they do that then they are retarded. You explain your reasons for falseclaiming, if the town disbelieves you thats not your mistake, its the towns.

This is the point, how could you distinguish a fakeclaiming town and a fakeclaiming scum? When playing mafia, people get paronoid. They try to question everything everyone says. Now that if you fakeclaim, then it doesn't only make people disbelieve you but also give excuses for the scums to jump onto your wagon.


Got to go, I'll continue when i get back.

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There is something, IMO about this fakeclaiming discussion, that might be going a little unnoticed

It can be good for townies, if all townies understand it is fake, AND ALL SCUMS DON'T, and if we are all openly saying "fakeclaiming is ok", then the mafia wont buy it... Its a coinflip.

Blaze: you didn't take into account that townies are on their own while scums can discuss together at night. If we assume that everyone's analytical skill is equal, then coudl figure out whether someone's fakeclaiming before the rest of us.

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if he claims doc while town he draws the kill away from power roles.

Also, in the one, I'd rather not draw the NK from the scums. The fact that the NK might hit the cult leader is a big plus to the town side.

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if he claims doc while town he draws the kill away from power roles.

Also, in

the

this one, I'd rather not draw the NK from the scums. The fact that the NK might hit the cult leader is a big plus to the town side.

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OMG: (Sigh) Listen, I don't think I have misunderstood you at all. All along, I'm just trying to say that i think fakeclaiming is not a good idea. I've said in one of my posts in the beginning of the game that confusing scums is good but you'll have to consider the confusion it would cause the town and how it's going to affect the decisions the rest of us would make. In this game, it's not you alone against the scums, its all of us. By claiming a power role when you are not, you could be wasting a doc's protection; by claiming a townie when you're a power role, the doc could waste his protection on someone else. The person who has claimed to be a power role is usually asked to provide evidence of their role. When he fails to convince others that he is not lying, he could draw a cop's investigation (which obviously would be a waste). With more than 10 people in the game, someone would be able to figure out if you fakeclaim. All of us know that scums, when asked to claim, would claim townies/ town power roles, and the most obvious evidence to tell they are scums is when the identities of the dead and the night scenes contradict with what they said they've done or what they are. When the towns fakeclaim as well, how are we able to tell whether they are lying townies or lying scums? Townies don't NEED to lie, scums do (unless they are stupid). Townie fakeclaiming will allow another door for the scums to lie, blend in, and confuse the town, and possibly escape from a lynch.

As for the basis of your strategy, the scums have to believe that you're claiming true in the first place. This has already been blown since you more or less is telling everyone that you're going to fakeclaim. Now, try and put yourself in the scums shoes. If you see OMG claiming so and so later in the game, are you going to believe in what he has claimed? In addition, as norinel and I have said, scum know who's scum. They can discuss at night and this means they are much more likely to work out that you're fakeclaiming than individual townie would.

I'm still open to discussion on this strategy and I hope you can provide me with links which shows you've tricked the scums into falling into that fakeclaim trap of yours or any other games which show town fakeclaiming has worked without causing any side effects on the town. I've not played any games where a townie has fakeclaimed with good results ( actually most of them ended quite badly).

Of course you can still fakeclaim to be whatever you want. You can sabotage the town by doing bizzare things. I've provided the reasons in which I think it's not a strategy I'd like to use and how I'd response to such a situation.

Perhaps I should have used "wouldn't" instead of "doesn't" when I was saying claiming to fakeclaim before fakeclaiming doesn't make one less scummy. I'm sorry if my posts sounded like i'm attacking you but if you isolate them, you see that I haven't even put a fos on you. I was supprised that you were continously voting and unvoting me. And I was even more supprised that you've got to L-2 without me voting at all but because this is the first wagon, it's hard to tell whether people were trying to pressure vote you or scum were diving in in hope for a lynch (which is stupid).

Also, I hope that you were just frustated and weren't trying to insult me personally when saying I should understand your post if I have taken english past a HS level. English is literally my fifth language if you haven't realize already from the way I write. I wasn't skimming your posts either.

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Also,

fos: lalaland

for not replying to my post and lurking. She hasn't provided a clear reason for her vote as well.

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Reyo... this whole time, OMG has been stating why he will NOT be roleclaiming on day 1. Why do you believe that he plans to roleclaim?

I'm not talking about day 1 only. claiming on day is plain stupid.

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Reyo... this whole time, OMG has been stating why he will NOT be roleclaiming on day 1. Why do you believe that he plans to roleclaim?

I'm not talking about day 1 only. claiming on day 1 is plain stupid.

fixed

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I'm asking OMG not to fakeclaim if he ever has to claim.

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Nothing to do with day 1 at all.

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The game seems to be slowly down.

First of all, I don't think Norinel's vote is scummy, it was a page one vote.

Not too sure about Friend of old though, the timing for the vote and unvote when the wagon wasn't going anywhere is a bit suspicious. I'll decide after his response on this.

To me lalaland has the most suspicious vote at the moment. She voted OMG with a not-so-clear reason then dissapear. I'm going to voting her if she doesn't speak up soon.

I guess we need to replace militant. Newbies dropping out is getting annoying in this forum.

Ghostwriter: If you are to vote, who will you vote and why? Apart from saying OMG's strategy wasn't antitown and people (lurkers as you've described) jumping onto his wagon suddenly, you haven't given us much of your views on other players.

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sorry, pls forgive my grammar. I'm a bit tired.

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XReyoX - STOP TALKING ABOUT CLAIMING! It doesn't matter because a fake claim could be helpful, but a real claim is helpful for the WIFOM. WE CAN'T DISCUSS IT, BECAUSE THE MAFIA AND CULT WILL KNOW AND THEN ITS VOID! WE NEED TO MMMMIIIISSSLLLLLEEEEEAAAADDDDD THEM!

In short Claiming = STFU!

Oh no... Am I misleading you? If you're not stupid enough to be mislead, I doubt the scums would fall into the trap honestly. And next time, back up your fakeclaim strategy with previous games please, this would be appreciated, that is if you still want to dig deeper into this discussion. Otherwise, I suggest you concentrate on expanding the other discussions rather and ignore my rant if you can't be bother to read them.

And the Noriel thing is a scumtell, not only is it OMGUS, its also him trying to shift the wagon.

I don't think so. He was accussing him for getting OFF his wagon. He was on 3 at that time. Do you think he really needed to shift it?

Also:

Unvote

Waste of space.

then

You pretty much hit the nail on the head. Ask anyone who plays with me regularly, I rarely vote no-one. Espeically early D1, I try to find a wagon (any wagon) that has even the slightest merit in it, then hit it.

I also dislike the fact that you start telling people that you think the best strategy is this:

The best idea for townies is to claim Doctor and draw the NK. Best idea for the Doctor is to claim tonwie and draw the cult recruit.

Then you're now tell me to shut up and not to discuss it.

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Fos:GS

1) for lurking (4 posts so far)
2) not contributing to the discussion in his first 2 posts then suddenly got onto OMG's wagon after he was prodded.
3) The reason for keeping his vote is weak
4)Not commenting on any other players other than OMG.

Mod: prod lalaland and possibly replace militant please. Thanks

militant has 48 hours from 02/17 1:54pm, if he doesnt post by then I will find a replacement.

lalaland prodded.

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Fos : Friend of Old

Your voting pattern in scummy. Saying no one is using any logic in the game and therefore not adding anything to the discussion is a scummy way to hide. You are making yourself hard to be read. Do you realize that its already past noon and what you've been doing is jumping onto wagons without adding sound reasons?

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Hello toshiro, what do you think about the game so far.

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For the moment,

Vote: GS

since lalaland seems to be a newbie going to drop out so there's not much point if she's going to be replaced soon, like militant.

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actually, it should be

Unvote, Vote: GS

mod: vote count please thanks

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Reyo and Friend of Old, why are you voting for GS (I know you didnt actually vote yet reyo)?

My random vote on blaze is doing nothing. It would be more useful on GS for now. Plus his votes and lurkiness do look a bit scummy, as I've said before. Though I would like FOD and lalaland to post more.

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Toshiro: there are only 2 mafia, the other one is a cult leader. I don't see much of a link between elias and GS either.

Also, where is ghostwriter?

I agree that norinel is hard to read.

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OMG: Would you mind pointing out how elias is being manipulative? I'm not getting scum vibes from elias so he's still neutral in my list. I'll see if I can find something from his previous games as scum.

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Blaze: Could you place a vote, fos or give us an idea of who you think is scummy at the moment on your next post please.

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Blaze: True, and thinking about it, not have a connection with a scummy character is not a towntell either. Its just that I find it more sucessful to spot scums in pairs than finding them individually.

GS: speak up, you're on L-2

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FOD: I'm afraid I'll have to say that you're close to useless if all you do is jumping onto wagons to pressure people without adding extra content to the discussion.

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OK FOD, I'm not buying your reasons behind your behaviour.

Firstly, as toshiro has said, 9 pages and you couldn't find anything useful to comment on is ridiculous.

secondly, think about it. If everyone follow what you're doing, we'll all be sitting around, waiting for a wagon to show up. You're voting purely for the sake of bandwagoning.

Thirdly, you are what I considered as active-lurking, posting enough just so that no one call you out for lurking, but not contributing to the discussion.

In addition to that you are saying none of the discussion is useful and that is just not true. We might not have gotten a wealth of information from it but its obvious better than nothing. You currently struck me as a scum trying to dampen down the discussion or a very bad town who doesn't know how to play.

And what do you mean by genuine scumminess? If you're waiting for someone to yell out" I'm scum, vote meeeee!!!", then I guess you'll have to play till you're REALLY OLD to see that.

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If you aren't buying it, why aren't you voting? Is the current topic of discussion less important than the fifth vote on a lurker wagon?

My vote is on GS.

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This wagon has grown way too fast for my liking.

Im pretty happy to kill oman or FoO instead, thoughts?

Vote whoever you want but just back it up with more reasons. I'm not happy that GS is not showing up so I'm sticking with my vote for the moment.

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I think my words sort of got twisted around... why aren't you voting FoO? GSGold's primarily a lurker who'll get unvoted once he gets replaced

My main focus was just to get them posting. I was deciding between lalaland, oman, GS and FOO at that time.

Firstly, elias unvoted lalaland and went for GS so she was on 1. Putting my vote on her making it a 2 doesn't look like it would do much. She was prodded that day as well so I she was out of my list.

Secondly, I kind of made a post addressing oman before I post. Oman is quite active, so I didn't think I'd need to vote him to get a reply or something.

FOO just started to get more active and I made an fos against him on the same post I vote GS. I think that was all I need to get him posting.

Since I've fos GS before I placed my vote on him which didn't do anything and the fact that the wagon is building up, I believed my vote best go to him.

I usually fos people first and wait to see if I could get the answer I want before voting them. It let other people to know where I'm going at the same time as well which I think should be a bad thing. I find people who go "Wah... This is a scumtell! Vote: You straight away " quite scummy, so I don't do it usually.

FOO: Thanks for the effort. It is going to take me some time to digest your post though. But before I'm off, just wanna point out that GW's posts have constantly been sending me scummy vibes. I've tried re-re-rereading his posts numerous times but I couldn't nail down whats so scummy. After spending an hour or so just reading his 10 odd posts, I realized that it was his avatar (not joking). His posts don't alarm me when I'm not looking at it. It really creeped me out like hell, but its probably my brain messing up (as usual). gah....

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I think I've brought something up about GS before and I'm still not sure why people think elias is scum. GW telling people they are crap voting but not making any effort to improve the situation is not useful. But I don't think its that scummy. It just sounded like "Are you all stupid? Why are you guys voting like this? (Sigh) I'm coming back when there are more stuffs happening."

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[quote="Oman]The best night for us is when the mafia kills

a townie and

the cult

tries to recruit a powerrole (barring doc protect etc).

[/quote]

fixed

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unvote, vote oman

Care to explain just a little bit more?

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Mod: I'd like to ask for a deadline extension please. thx

thats fair, I will probably need another replacement for GSGold. Once I get that replacement I will give you guys another week.

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Pink Puppy: Read my posts. I've given my reasons.

Fos: FOO

for this

I'll be glad to be rid of you no matter the outcome.

Unvote, Vote: OMG

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OMG, next time when you're going to insult someone, click on the little cross on the top right-hand corner instead of the sumbit button, Please? People don't vote you for no reason, and one could be because they are scums. Also, you are not the one who can judge whether you are the most protown person in the game. When you think someone is voting you based on crap logic, ask him to clarify (nicely), suggest why he is doing this and how it would benefit from it if he is scum (nicely), quote his scummy bits, ask others to add in their opinions on the case (nicely). Seriously, read your own posts and imagine you are another player trying to read them. There might be 1 or 2 stupid, dumb towns but there is no reason why you should get mad over them. At least half a dozen of people in here are trying to find scums just as hard and enjoy the game as well. Don't ruin it for everyone. K?

Oman and pink puppy, provoking him is just as bad if not worse.

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FoS: Blazerunner

for keeping a low profile.

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I kind of feel that you're making yourself hard to read and hve NOT put a tiny bit of effort into finding scum at all. You voted elias before because he agreed that fakeclaiming is alright. Fair enough at the beginning, but you made no effort in pushing the case further or anything and took the vote back on the next day. You then appear only once every 2 or 3 days thereafter just to comment on the inactivity of various people. What about dahen, FoO, GW, Norinel, Pinkpuppy, Xtoxm, oman and me? Thats more than half the players in the game. Haven't you got anything to say?

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Now omg seems more interested in himself, which is not good townie behaviour.
Elias seems to share my view.
omg continues to focus on himself

LOFL

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OMG. I'm too tired to read this thesis right now. Maybe Tommorrow.

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OK, I've isolated the stuffs that you've said against me so that I can adress them a little bit easier.

Page 4, and Xreyox appears to be taking up the Prolific Poster mantle from OMG.

Is that scummy?

Interesting that Xreyox questions CKD’s vote, and Blazerunner again undermines it.

What is CKD?

Don’t like Xreyox’s post 136. Seems like fabricated reasoning to attack Oman. Either that, or he has serious comprehension problems.

Could you explain how it looks facbricated?
The first half is me explaining why i think fakeclaiming is not beneficial and the second half is me misreading oman's post. He has explained it 3 posts below mine.

It worries me that in Post 153, XReyox looks like he wants to use LLL’s honesty as a reason to vote him…

Anyone who have played mafia would know that random lynch is almost the worst thing you can do. when lalaland suggested it, I assumed that she is completely new to the game. I really don't think player who has at least some experience would suggest that. Or are you saying you support the idea of random lynch?

Post 163 by Xreyox is shit-logic btw. Through and through.

Point it out for me please. ?

should note that I disagree with Xreyox’s assuation that a Doc is more useful than an RB. I’d say an RB > Doc but a Cop > RB in terms of ability to help the town catch scum.

It's just a different point of view. I only believe that Doc is more useful because his ability can only be beneficial to the town. On the other hand, roleblocker can prevent town power roles from performing their night actions as well. Assuming that the number of town power roles is usually higher than that of the mafia, the chance of a role blocker causing negative effects on the town is higher. I agree with you that in terms of finding scum, a roleblocker might be more useful in some case, but keeping the town alive is important as well.

His suggestion that a Mafia RB might be suspected is only true if the RB blocks a CLAIMED POWER ROLE, which is a false dilemma.

I did not say that its only true if the RB blocks a claimed power role. Why would a Town RB want block a claimed power role?

Xreyox makes little sense at the end of Page 8/start of Page 9.

OK

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CKD is what i call CuriousKarmaDog. Which is odd because he is the Mod. I guess i mustve made a mistake. It should be pretty apparent who i meant if u read back. The entire analysis is done in chronological order.

I've checked. It should have been elias. I didn't get the joke becaues I didn't know he was already voting OMG until others pointed it out. Nothing to read from there.

Correction. The first half is you trying to make Oman's suggested strategy seem scummy, when in fact it is not. The second half is you misrepresenting him further. I did say that it could just be that you didnt understand any of what Oman had said.

I wasn't trying trying to make Oman's suggested strategy seem scummy. I still believe it is scummy because it confuses the town and allow the scum to make an excuse to fakeclaim as well. Still... no one has given me an example of how effective fakeclaiming on the town side can be so the strategy isn't back up by previous games or anything.

Exactly. And someone with even the slightest amount of experience understands the concept of the 'newbie card'. LLL chose not to play it, and made himself look scummier, but in a way i felt was genuine.

Actually, choosing not to play the newbie card was one of my scum tactics. I won 2 games as scums when I first joined. I don't know whether doing so actually contribute to me winning the game or not but i did say, don't treat me like a newbie and attack me if you find me scummy, thinking it would make me look pro-town. Maybe i was just me. But then i wasn't focusing on that. It was the fact that a) she is an experienced player and b) she suggested we should random lynch together made me feel she's scummy.

its post 163. If you really think any of it valid, repost it, and ill happily take it apart for you.

Break me down for it please. AND with links to games if possible.

You've never played a game with multiple killing groups?

I have but this is not one of those, is it?

But the advantage would be that the RB could be confirmed by the blocked power role, and so even a worst case scenario achieves some good.

A RB can be confirmed, but you won't know which side he is on. Pretty pointless don't you think? On the other hand a doc can also be confirmed by misskills. The scums can choose not to kill at night but it would be their loss. In this game, it would be even worse for them if they do so as the cult will keep growing.

His suggestion that a Mafia RB might be suspected is only true if the RB blocks a CLAIMED POWER ROLE, which is a false dilemma.

I did not say that its only true if the RB blocks a claimed power role. Why would a Town RB want block a claimed power role?

????? OK, lets say someone claims to be a cop but it is not confirmed. Why would you block him if you're a town RB? How is that beneficial to the town?

I'll comment on other stuffs after these are sorted. I first thing I don't want is people thinking I'm scum because I haven't explain myself clear enough or thinking I'm scum for reasons I don't even understand. If you have particular ones that you want me to give my views on urgently, then feel free to ask me.

[XReyoX]

I'm confused and don't really know what I'm answering but this is post 163.

By claiming town as RB he prevents himself from being NKEd by scum first night.

This means the scum would have gone for someone else and that someone else could be a doc/ cop (more powerful power roles). And if later on in the game you've found a scum with your role blocking, it would be very difficult to convince other townie since you've lied at the beginning. If you've blocked a town power role previously, by not declaring you are one and whom you've blocked, they would think there is a mafia role-blocker as well.

if he claims doc while town he draws the kill away from power roles.

In this case, you'll draw more suspicion from the real doc if there is one. You might even cause the real doc to claim if he really think you're scum. Also, if a doc die after you've fakeclaim, unless you're really good, the chance you could talk yourself out of this is dim.

Lol Mafia RB is generally pretty rare. Id even say more rare than a mafia choosing not to kill, or the doc protecting against a kill that would have hit scum.

Rare=/= doesn't exist

what the fuck are you talking about? A town RB isnt going to block a claimed cop unless he has a V good reason. You seem to be insinuating that anyone who considers blocking a claimed power role MUST be a mafia RB, which is untrue.

Thats what I'm saying. A TOWN RB isn't going to block a claimed cop unless has a V good reason. So if you're a claimed cop and you get blocked, what do you think?

[XReyoX]

I agree with puppy.

In addition, omg, if you lynch yourself, we will have less information to work with on day2 in comparision with having 7 other people on your wagon.

[XReyoX]

4) Elias piles on and votes GS and then ask others for their reasons for voting GS.

Agree with the above post, but I believe GS would be better suited with a vote: GS.

Reyo and Friend of Old, why are you voting for GS (I know you didnt actually vote yet reyo)?

Elias votes GS because he agrees with somebody else's reasons (no original thinking here). Then he asks people for their reasons. Which is usually something you do when you don't understand the reasoning. And if you're voting the guy, you should know why he's scummy.

I gave my reasons as the ones that were listed in the post above mine. The two players I asked literally didnt even do that much. I was completely in the right to ask their reasons.

I was the one who made that post above yours.

[XReyoX]

I couldn't believe OMG gained 2 votes in just half an hour. Not allowing people to response to a L-1 situation is something I didn't expect from an experienced player like you, norinel.

[XReyoX]

I just hope we've got a vig, not a SK or anything.

[XReyoX]

What do you mean by I reversed and say GS is scummy? I don't think I've mentioned that he seems protown to me before. When did I say I would disagree with the wagon as well?

I think norinel's vote wasn't scummy. But i don't think omg fosing norinel for his vote was scummy either. I was just pointing out to OMG that norinel's vote was more like a random vote, not a bandwagoning one.

I didn't pay much attention to GS's behaviour until GW mentioned it.

Foo and I were both voting GS but it doesn't mean I can't find him scummy, does it? He was bandwagoning just for the sake of bandwagoning.

:arrow: Wagon starts when GSGold defends Norinel. Wagon ends when Norinel defends GSGold.

Sorry, I don't quite get the meaning of this. Do you mean you think norinel and GS are connected?

[XReyoX]

Pinkpuppy-

To be precise, I was only agreeing with the last half of his statement. Since GS was already voting OMG, I thought he was only trying to add pressure on him to see how he'd respond.

And even if I'd have agreed with GS on that one, i don't think it would have stopped me from suspecting him. Scums don't only do scummy things. Majority but not all of what a scum says are lies.

[XReyoX]

BM-

I think you might want to check if your scumdar has the newest driver installed, after being so determined to lynch OMG and accussing elias of being his scumbuddy.

[XReyoX]

I agree that there is no point in speculating who has been recruited for now. There is roughly 50% chance that the leader couldn't recuit anyone last night.

[XReyoX]

I agree with pinkpuppy that discussing potential Mafia PRs doesn't really benefit the town much. However, I don't see talking about it is much of a scumtell at this point. The best would be to ask people to be more carefull no to drop clues about their roles.

so Xtoxm, you viged elias last night?

[XReyoX]

The thing is that scums don't know whether there is a doc either. The can try to NK xtoxm and see what'll happen.

[XReyoX]

I don't have a shotgun either.

[XReyoX]

So are we all agreeing that xtoxm is the vig?

[XReyoX]

Hey dahen, I'm more interested in your thoughts about various people rather than a summary of what we did.

---

Btw, English is my fifth doesn't mean I’m better at all the other four. I meant it’s the fifth language I started speaking. It's not a good thing really. I can't even speak my mother tongue properly. Everyone thinks I’m foreign where ever I go, not to mention I’m not fluent in anyone of them. Don't try to do it to your kids, they won't become tri/quodro/or-whatever-lingual.

---

[XReyoX]

that said, from his LoS, i'm 95% sure he's town.

....That probably means he is scum.......

[XReyoX]

that said, from his LoS, i'm 95% sure he's town.

....That probably means he is scum.......

Are you saying my scumdar is shit?

*runs and hides in a corner*



BM

*pat BM on the head*
Judging that you were going after me like a mad bull last time when we played and nearly got me lynched and combining with how certain you thought OMG was scum, that is my conclusion.

My sumdar is just as bad if not worst.

*Beep....Beep.... ZZZZ...(high frequency noise)* Error 404: Scum not found....Critical error occured. Failed to connect to the brain.

[XReyoX]

I don't want to lynch someone just for being a lurker. But I would hate to lose to lurker scum. I would much rather lose to active scum that legitimately outsmarted me.

In addition, lurking kind of defeats the point of the game anyway. We have the day phase to discuss, not to stay quiet. The fact that lurkers are more likely town is purely because we have more towns than scums. I would go for them if I have no better choice instead of having no lynch.

[XReyoX]

I'm not marking him down as town just yet. He really hasn't given us much of his thoughts except his case against oman. I can't tell anything from that to be honest.

[XReyoX]

Of course, this FoS wont bother you, because it

probably

means you are town, right?

fixed

---

Anyway I don't understand what you're trying say, sorry.

[XReyoX]

Code: Select all

[hr][/hr]

FOO: I personally think oman is getting protown for what he has suggested lately.

#449 and #472

[XReyoX]

Not everyone has commented on this. But for the moment, the "everyone" you are referring to is only you, xtoxm and GW.

Anyway, I don't see anything wrong with me not agreeing with most of the town. And I certain don't think because everyone thinks he is town I'll then have to agree. I can judge on my own, i think, and I hope.

[XReyoX]

I just thought of something that could be funny. sorry if its out of context but hey.

BM: Do you think you are scum?

Well... perhaps not that funny really.

[XReyoX]

I agree that that is a frequent scum reaction -- the more people you either confirm as town or express that you think they are townish -- the harder it is for you to hide and get somebody else lynched.

I don't agree with that because once a scum knows that everyone thinks someone is town, disagreeing with everyone else won't do him any good. He is not going to get him lynch on his own anyway so whats the point? He can keep his option open but it doesn't serve any perpose. He wouldn't be too late to turn his back on that guy when people starts to throw suspicion at and voting for him anyway.

[XReyoX]

GW:

Why is Foo scum and why is pinkpuppy town?

[XReyoX]

Aren't we accepting xtoxm is the vig... and thus NOT scum?

I believe xtoxm is the vig and I believe BM's scumdar is broken.

[XReyoX]

BM:
So you are you not accepting xtoxm is the vig?

[XReyoX]

i'm the vigmeat. :p

Yummy

---

GW:
one more thing.
What made you shift from these:

You have made a total of 9 posts since this game as started. Not a single one has held heavy/deep, unique thought traits, fresh ideas, or anything of that sort. combined, their total is less than 25 lines of posting.

Unvote; Vote dahen

.

That wasn't pressure. That was an actual vote. He doing just enough to not be replaced in this game, and nothing more.

To this?

His general inattentiveness makes me believe that he's town.

[XReyoX]

Everyone else has a 50% chance of being scum, I noticed.

[XReyoX]

xtoxm, <50% for you.

Not for me, I think you're the vig.

[XReyoX]

I mean. Viewing from my side or other towns side,
it would be 2mafia +1 CL / 7 ppl = 42%
2 mafia +1CL +1CR/7 ppl = 57%
so i'm just assuming the average of the 2, roughly 50%.
not relevant. But it tells me the reason for the inactivity. The scums are probably doing this deliberately. =_=
I cant really think of more questions to ask anymore. People are away, oman's not posting, norinel said he was going to check in 5 days ago but didn't, dahen said "see you soon" but didn't say how soon, GW still hasn't responded.... thats like half of the players.

[XReyoX]

Pink puppy:

Thanks for bringing this out. I thought of it yesterday (as in Day1) but somehow has forgotten about it.

I'm not sure about FoO. His posts.... I'd say they're well "crafted".... Its a feeling and i don't have anything that is a good indication of he is scum. Its like when you say "hm.... really?", re-read the post then say"hm... he's probably right"...something like that.
So no, I don't think he is scum at the moment, however i think he should post a more detailed case against oman.

---

Norinel:
So what information do you think OMG has given us?

[XReyoX]

Mod:

Could you do a mass prod please?
There are quite a few questions out there that need to be answered.

[XReyoX]

GhostWriter, oman

, norinel(away),

dahen

[XReyoX]

Pink puppy:

I don't feel it that way, I think FoO knows what's going on. His posts are more like a recap of what the town is doing, rather than trying to find scum.

FOO reads the thread, put a case together, place his vote, then thats it. He only comes in onces in a while to stay in the game or when someone questioned him. It seems like he lacks the will to interrogate his suspects and that is strange because it means he didn't care whether his suspects are really scum. His OMGUS vote on OMG yesterday adds to that.

[XReyoX]

I just wanted OMG out really, his attitude was annoying and he had to use several posts instead of poting just one long one.

Annoying attitude =/= scum
Using several posts instead of one long one =/=scum
Thus your vote is based on OMGUS.

[XReyoX]

FoO's LoS is rubbish. Basicly, he could have summarized it into:

Town-People who are active.
Scum-People who post little.

He is not trying to catch scum at tall.

[XReyoX]

I'll grant you it is not the most detailed and most certainly not the most accurate LoS ever made, but don't you think there is a reason that an active person seems more townish than a lurker?

Yes, an active person can seem more townish but that is not the only thing. You seems to look at how much someone posts to determine whether he is town only.

If you were to do an LoS right now, how different would it be, just out of interest?

I don't know tbh. I don't keep a LoS. Even if I do make a list, I don't usually post it unless someone wants one. I always feel like the scum can make use of it.

Okay, I'll admit that I'm not going out of my way to scumhunt right now, but neither are you Reyo, nobody is right now.

I don't think thats true. I've asked questions and I'm waiting for responses. Although the stuffs I've pointed out aren't major scumtells, I believe the answers can move the game forward. "Nobody is scumhunting right now" <-- is not true either.

---

I did think the last two votes in half an hour was pretty suspicious.

Honestly, I didn't notice that my vote was so soon timewise after the second-to-last one. I read since the last time I'd gotten on, saw OMG's self vote and claim and more than a page of discussion since then, and figured things had about gone far enough.

It is not only the timeframe in between the last 2 votes. It is the fact that the only post in between the two is OMG's last post. You didn't allow anyone else to respond to the situation, norinel.

[XReyoX]

Buddying up, bussing and distancing are only reliable when the lynchee has committed a major scumtell or nothing at all. In the OMG case, i think discussing about it will just lead us into a WIFOM argument, IMO.

[XReyoX]

I just wanted OMG out really, his attitude was annoying and he had to use several posts instead of poting just one long one.

Annoying attitude =/= scum
Using several posts instead of one long one =/=scum
Thus your vote is based on OMGUS.

actually i have to concede, your post does not make for a good case validation.

BM

BM, are you denying the correlative?

[XReyoX]

What situation was there to respond to? OMG still advocating for his lynch, or Elias voting?

The L-1. Maybe someone might have unvoted, thus creating an alternative discussion. People might have wanted to question elias about his vote. OMG was basicly the only candidate yesterday, that why it was bad.

[XReyoX]

#575 Reyo replied to Norinel's post
#576 GW warned Dahen not to give a summary again
#577 Reyo made a summary of the last 2 posts.

[XReyoX]

Oman has been posting across the site every single day =_=

[XReyoX]

I'd lynch Oman

[XReyoX]

XReyoX, why would you lynch me?

Because I don't have a reason not to. I'm trying a different approach now in this game since everyone else is lurking.

I like your suggestion about the claiming thing but thats about it. Try and find someone that is scummy then I'll reconsider.

What do you think?

[XReyoX]

no. I was talking about telling people to couterclaim if they are vig.

[XReyoX]

I know. I've pretty much lost my motivation. But I bet if I'm going to vote FoO now, he is going to show up within the next few posts. This is what he does.

[XReyoX]

You should.

Vig the silent people since they are useless anyway. I'd rather loss against active scums than lurking scums if I'm to die.

[XReyoX]

Norinel:

Why are you pointing me out particularly? and what do you mean by "mafia's more likely than cult"?

[XReyoX]

??????? I was referencing to this post.

Okay, if we look at this at face value (the vig will kill Xtom tonight if he is fakeclaiming) and say that Xtom is a powerrole, he is NOT CULT. This is big, we have one guarenteed non-cultist. Meaning that even though vig is a dicey role in this game (I know I was the vig last game).

I say we are at a very interesting decision here.

let 1 townpowerrole = doc:

Let Xtoxm = Vigilantee -> obviously protecting him from night kills is the best move as we have a confirmed townie with no cult-ableness.

Let Xtoxm = Scum -> obviously the vig will try to kill him, but the doc should protect him (see Xtoxm = vigilantee).

Thus, I think that contrary to standard vig play any vigilantee should counterclaim now, if not, we should accept that Xtoxm IS town.

[XReyoX]

Mafia just wanna lynch anyone but themselves whereas cult wanna lynch powerroles and mafia,l leaving vanilla alive. There is a difference, although almost impossible to see i agree.

[XReyoX]

Whats the point of the claim?

[XReyoX]

Mod:

I've only had one chocolate easter egg this easter. May I have a deadline extension from you as a present please?

[XReyoX]

Is 1 week ages?

[XReyoX]

Thats why I don't see the reason. He has anounced that he would claim whatever. This is just so random and out of the blue that any scum/cult or whoever would know its pointless and its an unreliable claim. What I don't see is reason why he bothered to post that and not something more useful maybe?

[XReyoX]

FoS: FoO

[XReyoX]

Reply to Norinel:

I don't think he was breadcrumbing he is a doc. He has made it clear that he would claim something random. There is no telling what he is claiming is true or fake. I just don't see why he is doing it now. Both uneccassery and confusing. I don't know.

PP is not in my pro-town list. Maybe in the active list. I'm still a bit suspicious of her role mainly because she replaced lalaland and I did think that lalaland was scum at some point yesterday until she got replaced. I don't think PP is a good lynch for today tho because we'll then be left with me and xtomx chatting with each other or him talking to himself tmr if I die. BM seems to have dissapeared.

Thanks for pointing out that there are more people on FoO's scumlist that have already got a few votes. I only thought he was laying his vote somewhere just to look commital without pushing his case.

xtoxm. I hate you for being the vig. I wish I can just do this bizzare "I want him lynched now" thing and not worry about anything. I guess if I do that, the scums or cult or whoever whatever are just going to get me lynched.

[XReyoX]

we need 5 for a lynch. For the activity yea. But it seems like the active peoples are suspecting each other. I feel that we might end up votes everywhere which is no good. Just a rant.

[XReyoX]

The people who I think are active are Xtoxm, PP, Norinel, GW and me recently. Oman is doing his weird things, I don't understand what he's trying to do after openly saying he was lurking on purpose. FoO just wanting stay in the game as I see it. The rests are just lurking.

I feel that unless all of us (5) vote on the same one, we'll end up with no lynch.

I'm not happy xtoxm. You know that your words are more reliable than anyone else in the game because we all know you cant be lying. So please say something more helpful will you? Stop abusing your power!!!!!

[XReyoX]

I'd say Oman and FoO stands equally at the moment. I'll need to read again >_<

If we mislynch again today, we'll start with a really bad position tmr.

The worst case scenario would be 1 town left and that would be xtoxm.

[XReyoX]

I still don't believe it. He claimed that crap and is now lurking again. Hanging us in the air. Check his profile. He is posting everywhere but this game.

[XReyoX]

Thats why I don't see the reason. He has anounced that he would claim whatever. This is just so random and out of the blue that any scum/cult or whoever would know its pointless and its an unreliable claim. What I don't see is reason why he bothered to post that and not something more useful maybe?

well in fairness to him, he breadcrumbed to the extent that any other claim would have got him lynched instantly (for my part at least).

BM

Why did he has to claim then?

[XReyoX]

I'm deciding between Oman and FoO

[XReyoX]

xtomx, i think we're dead. I think the cult and the scums have united.

[XReyoX]

Will be away for the weekend. I might not be able to post until monday.

[XReyoX]

Sorry. Got some personal issues to deal with recently and hasn't been in good shape to read things through properly. To be honest, I'd like to be replaced awhile ago already.

BM. Oman would be my first choice if a lynch is possible. If not, then FoO. Tommorrow.

Don't have much reason. Most of reasons are from day1 really, the fact that they were on OMG’s wagon (I think, point this out if this is incorrect, cant be bother to check back). The lurking contributed to it as well.

BM, if you’re going to make a case against me, then please do it quicker so I can get it over with before I leave. I don’t see any breadcrumb from Oman.

Mod:

May I be replaced during the night, or earlier. Thanks

[XReyoX]

how many hours and what is the vote count? it is the 30th at 10:50 pm here.

[XReyoX]

BM,
sorry, could you make them as bullet point questions. I really can't be bothered to look back.

[XReyoX]

who is L-1? foo?

[XReyoX]

Is FOO dead?

I'd be voting FoO if that is what needs to be done. I think he is scum. So as Oman.

BM, there is no reason to claim. You are wasting other people's brain cells.

[XReyoX]

I'm back

Bah~

---

I've been replaced

Bah~

---

I'll shut up

Bah~

[XReyoX]

Well done.

[XReyoX]

I dunno. I don't think I could have stayed in the game due to external reasons. If I were still alive, my list would have been, from scum to town, Oman-BM-PP-dahen-Norinel. And that would have probably, IMO and not including the possibility that I might have been recruited, lose us the game. Also, I was thinking of claiming bullet proof, although I didn't do it, to save my role. And that would have probably get me killed, too.

Anyway, I'm better off staying out of Mafia games for now. My prediction is telling me that I'm going to lose the next game. And I've got lots of work to do for my mishmash.

Good game mod.