Mini 559 - Cult Mafia again - Game over

[Oman]

Vote Noriel

For taking my reason to vote OMG.

[Oman]

We discussed this last game (did anyone else play both?)

We basically decided that lynching a claimed townie is a dumb goddamn move.

Basically, everyone claim whatever the hell you want. The best idea for townies is to claim Doctor and draw the NK. Best idea for the Doctor is to claim tonwie and draw the cult recruit.

Claiming in this game is broken.

Mafia NKed the cult leader N1 in 500, lets hope it happens again

[Oman]

ConquerClub.

Don't counterclaim if someone claims Doc. It'll be obvious if they're lying (of cause, this is all non-lylo/non-lategame stuff).

[Oman]

I don't think you're evil. I think you're misguided. XReyoX, we can't be sure we even HAVE a doc.

[Oman]

Elias, is he like this all the time? You two have history, right?

[Oman]

Elias, is he like this all the time? You two have history, right?

[Oman]

Well, I won't vote him on changed behaviour, because being away from the site will change your playstyle.

[Oman]

fine, here is a better example:

"elias, do you think reyo has been overdefensive so far or do you think she is just being misundersttod?"

would that be ok for me to post?

no, because its still not a similar situation, as the assertion "reyo is being overdefensive" has not been widely made. At the point at which Reyo asked, 2-3 people had accused you of it, therefore making it a major issue in the game and worthy of a query.

Its also a false Dichotimy, XReyoX could be both or neither.

[Oman]

Unvote

Waste of space.

[Oman]

Also, we're not guarenteed either a cop or a doc.

[Oman]

Vote Blazerunner

I dislike your plan from a town standpoint. Would be great if you were cult though.

OMG: There is no godfather in this game for sure.

[Oman]

Watching Underbelling, reading in ads. Will post.

[Oman]

Since Oman has played this game before, I think he should put some more effort in describing towns best strategies from his stand-point.

Unfortunatly, when it comes to claiming, we didn't find an optimal play for claiming. Claims are hard in this game, because powerroles will be NKed and townies will be recruited, so unless the town adds that level of WIFOM (which I was expecting you to rather than follow a preset path), we're in trouble. I expect everyone to take my claims with a grain of salt.

The strategy that town should claim doc and doc claim town is of course useless after it has been stated.

Thats the delicious WIFOM.

This question is valid, but the follow-up seems scummily prepared:

You don't explain how it is "scummily prepared" but let me say it this way. He was away from the site. He is not playing as he did in previous town games. That is to be expected. Therefor the conclusion that he is scum is not valid.

also dislike Blazerunner's plan. That doesn't mean I think he's scum. That vote by you is too easy. It seems like you have been trying to just find a place for your vote and finally had the opportunity.

You pretty much hit the nail on the head. Ask anyone who plays with me regularly, I rarely vote no-one. Espeically early D1, I try to find a wagon (any wagon) that has even the slightest merit in it, then hit it.

I also found Blazerunner's plan to be scummy in that it caused a higher benefit for the scum than for the town.

We dont lynch first day, second day the cop claims and gives his report, and doctor protects him.

What if there is no doc, or cop for that matter. This was a very scummy plan.

[Oman]

I'm sorry. I still don't see how it would be beneficial for town to claim doc and doc to claim town.

My point is that claiming will not work as a strat. Any way you look at it, the only time I can see a claim working is if someone claims townie and we have some sort of cult-doc role, or if someone claims a Power whilst there is no doc yet dead (of course, neither of these roles are guarenteed, so, again, claiming will not work).

This, to me, looks like you've either misread the mod's post or you're scum to be so sure.

Sorry its not "For sure there is no godfather" Its "We cannot be sure there is a godfather" i.e. "There is no godfather for certain." when you're reading it as "There is no godfather, for sure."

The Mafia has possible power roles, from a large list (standard ones being: Godfather, RB, Framer, etc).

[Oman]

Isn't that better than trying to mix the proper blend of WIFOM?

"Forbidding" claims is a bit much, mostly because I like players to play their own game.

For example, I might have set this all up to claim doctor later when i'm actually a townie. But if I was, why did I just tell the mafia my plan. But I'm smart enough to know the mafia would read that.... You see where I enjoy this.

Random lynch is a TERRIBLE idea.
unvote, vote lalaland

Jog on! Look at this: lalaland

Townsperson

First red flag
Gender:
Joined:

01 Feb 2008

Second red flag.

That is a bad vote. She suggested something that would've been scummy coming from you or me, but fits with a total newbie.

FoS Elias

You should know better.

[Oman]

Actually, its because everyone but you posts pressure votes as "THIS IS A PRESSURE VOTE!"

Oh, and OMG said that lalaland was not scummy but voted her "for pressure" I smell teh scumzors.

Unvote Vote OMG

[Oman]

I'm still a fan of an OMG lynch. The guy is all over the place. That last bit about Noriel was obviously a horrid defence.

XReyoX - STOP TALKING ABOUT CLAIMING! It doesn't matter because a fake claim could be helpful, but a real claim is helpful for the WIFOM. WE CAN'T DISCUSS IT, BECAUSE THE MAFIA AND CULT WILL KNOW AND THEN ITS VOID! WE NEED TO MMMMIIIISSSLLLLLEEEEEAAAADDDDD THEM!

In short Claiming = STFU!

[Oman]

What do you mean by "all over the place", and why is it a scumtell?

I mean he backtracks on himself a lot.

And the Noriel thing is a scumtell, not only is it OMGUS, its also him trying to shift the wagon.

[Oman]

Elias - This isnt an fos etc, but i agree that i do get a general vibe from your posts of manipulative scum.

WISHY WASHY!

[Oman]

Elias - This isnt an fos etc, but i agree that i do get a general vibe from your posts of manipulative scum.

WISHY WASHY!

yeah ok another great post from oman.

OMGUS!

[Oman]

Im pretty happy to kill oman or FoO instead, thoughts?

Why and why?

[Oman]

but I think Oman may be scum because of his attempts to kill off some of the strategy discussion

Where have i done this?

[Oman]

When this was happening you posted a few times telling him to stop where he was and shut up about it. I know you had valid reasons behind it, the WIFOM situation you claimed it would make, but it still struck me as trying to kill the discussion, and I wonder if there was an ulterior motive?

I did it because the mafia and cult are both looking for opposite things. The mafia is looking for powerroles, the cult is looking for townies. The best night for us is when the mafia kills a townie and the cult tries to recruit a powerrole (barring doc protect etc).

What Reyo was doing was basically giving each scum faction the information they want and reducing the chance of the perfect night to 0. I don't mind discussing strats, but lets make sure they're not going to ruin the game.

Okay lets discuss a good strat.

The only time I would advocate claiming (I'd advocate it now if people could use it to trick around the scums, but I don't know how smart half of you are), is if the mafia kill the cult leader tonight (as in 500) and we can play this like a regular game.

As always on my strat discussions: I could be wrong.

[Oman]

Wow. Subtle.

[Oman]

omg: you haven't explained why you were voting GSGold, and now you are voting oman without any explanation.

u suck.

unvote; vote omg_im_innocent_wtf

It really troubles me that nobody can tell me why the wagon on GSGold happened. And I note that omg was the first to vote him.

yes i had

yes i have

you are a retard

that is all.

Why do we let 12 year olds on MS?

[Oman]

YOU ARE BEING ANTI-TOWN!

See those votes on you, they're not just there for funsies.

[Oman]

Posted: Mon Feb 25, 2008 11:29 pm Post subject: 296

Posted: Mon Feb 25, 2008 11:30 pm Post subject: 297

Posted: Mon Feb 25, 2008 11:37 pm Post subject: 298

Sorry I didn't answer you, my refresh button broke waiting for you to post. I really wanted to sit here and hit it ASAP.

By the way, I refuse to answer your questions from now on, you've proven yourself unworthy of my time with that final post of yours. I shall respond TO your actions, to actions performed ON you, but you as a player are dead to me. STFU.

[Oman]

Oh BM, you silly man!

[Oman]

Whoa, BM super post.

Mod

: My ISP shit itself on me. I might be able to get on over the next few days, but maybe not.

[Oman]

Shot gunned?

Must reobserve.

[Oman]

"shot" is a vig IMO, but it can be either.

[Oman]

Okay, if we look at this at face value (the vig will kill Xtom tonight if he is fakeclaiming) and say that Xtom is a powerrole, he is NOT CULT. This is big, we have one guarenteed non-cultist. Meaning that even though vig is a dicey role in this game (I know I was the vig last game).

I say we are at a very interesting decision here.

let 1 townpowerrole = doc:

Let Xtoxm = Vigilantee -> obviously protecting him from night kills is the best move as we have a confirmed townie with no cult-ableness.

Let Xtoxm = Scum -> obviously the vig will try to kill him, but the doc should protect him (see Xtoxm = vigilantee).

Thus, I think that contrary to standard vig play any vigilantee should counterclaim now, if not, we should accept that Xtoxm IS town.

[Oman]

Pinkpuppy, first line stated that the entire thing required a doc to exist, if one doesn't its void.

[Oman]

I am not refuting Xtoxm's vig story.

Sooooo.

Who is next. Lets consider this:

1. Do we, as a town, want to "assign" Xtoxm a target?

I think NOT, all it does is let both groups know who we're targeting. Bad move.

[Oman]

Back. Sorry, forgot this game when I came back.

[Oman]

Actually, I haven't been ignoring prods. In a few games (so that it wasn't alignment based) I've been trying to try out lurking as people seem to think LAL is wrong. So I'm trying to get perspective. Unfortunatly, my findings aren't really ready, but I just don't feel right doing it any more.

Sorry.

XReyoX, why would you lynch me?

[Oman]

Suspicious of XReyoX due to this recent incident: Not having a reason to lynch someone != having a reason to lynch them. Also, is happy with getting claims out there.

[Oman]

no. I was talking about telling people to couterclaim if they are vig.

No no no! IF someone claims vig, and they aren't the vig, you let the real vig kill them. Always. Mafia are not likely to kill the vig (see cult mafia 1) as he is not a deadly threat to them, and often helps.

[Oman]

I'm trying to WIFOM as much as possible XReyoX.


BTW: I am actually the doc, and I won't be protecting the vig tonight.

[Oman]

IF it comes down to us, I'll vote for FoO.

In fact, I'm away for the next 24-36 hrs so

Unvote Vote FoO

I'll return.

[Oman]

Dude, XReyoX, who are you to dictate playstyle?

[Oman]

Vote XreyoX

Why did you not vote FoO?

XreyoX has been replaced (see first post of the page), vote does not count.

[Oman]

Vote Imat

[Oman]

I don't care if he is Cult leader (which I don't believe), he's right about Imat.

[Oman]

Reyo

[Oman]

I will lynch imat now. And yes, I am happy lynching someone who isn't here. Cause I was happy lynching him when he WAS here...cause he's scum. This is no pressure vote.

[Oman]

2-shot vig?

Wow...you really fucked up with that claim. Nice attempt though.

[Oman]

Fuck the cult is obviously controlling this lynch bye not voting at all.

FoS: Norinel, Pink Pupy, dahen

[Oman]

Fuck the cult is obviously controlling this lynch bye not voting at all.

FoS: Norinel, Pink Pupy, dahen

[Oman]

Guys. I'm a lot more alive than I thought I'd be but I might as well claim now: I was lying with my claim, trying to draw an NK and stop them killing BM (who I thought was a cop) I actually have no power. So, uh....sorry bout the lies, but lieing townies can be good for the game. just wanted to get that out before any real doctor counter-claimed and got me lynched. Yeah...well...I can't believe BM and I had the same idea.

Oh and the absoloute fail of dahen is quite obvious, whether that is scummy or not, I am unsure.

[Oman]

I say we take out Norinel tonight, destroy the cult and then go after Imat tomorrow.

Unvote Vote Norinel

[Oman]

isn't that optimal play?

Can someone crunch the numbers?

Oh right: tonight. Its 12.10 am here, and I'm tired, for me, this is TONIGHT.

Whatever the fuck.

[Oman]

Why DO you believe me?

Why WOULDN't you?

[Oman]

Roger, works for me.

You could be cult, but either way, you're correct.

[Oman]

Yeah. Oh yeah, you're the vig....Lulz. This is me confusing you with XreyoX but taking the fact that Imat was mafia into the equation as well.

I fail.

[Oman]

And does it look to me like Oman's post is less of a simple misunderstanding and more of a "I have to remember which people I've made up lies about" post? I, personally, got the latter, though I'm slightly biased due to the fact that the Town is COMPLETELY incorrect.

You play in 8 games and do Uni and we'll see if you ever forget who is or isn't in a game and what happened previously.


The first sentence sounds very claiming scum.

[Oman]

Yes, I totally claimed Scum. Because BM editing a quote makes the edited quote more trure than the original, right Oman?

You are patronising, and I dislike you. Tip: patronisation sounds better when it comes from a superiour, so go pick on newbies.

[Oman]

Bugger it, I'll take the scum today

Unvote Vote Imat

[Oman]

Vote Norinel

We need to kill the cult today. The mafia needs to do it too now.

[Oman]

unvote

Did you kill last night or did the scum?

[Oman]

Did you just say i was mafia?

That was certainly....subliminal.

[Oman]

How am I confirmed?

[Oman]

Dahen is up then.

[Oman]

Sigh. BM went from rational to rediculous in the cause of a day. Guess he's a powerrole.

[Oman]

They shouldn't should be a tie/double loss at least.

[Oman]

Dahen, I believe I know which Powerrole you are. I want to remain mum about it for now.

Next claim Pluz: alternatively

Prod

[Oman]

I'm read the above and find it flawed.

Especially as dahen's plans make me some form of scum.

Hey Xtoxm: Tell me what made you think Dahen was a powerrole.

[Oman]

I'm a nurse

I thought/knew there was a doc out there so I decided to claim doc so that I could draw the NK off him.

If dahen is the doc (as I guess that he is) I will confirm him innocent.

BM or Nirinel are my picks. "Might be niave" Piss off.

Now what made you think dahen was a power role?

[Oman]

Yeah well I was playing as a vanilla townie who couldn't be recruited. Which is essentially my role. Thats why I took the risk, trying to get NKed, thats why I am happy to hunt the scum and cult interchangably.

Anyway. I need to vote either BM or Norinel. In fact, I'd actually rather lynch one, vig the other, personally. Of course, this all depends on what Dahen says he is Power role wise.

[Oman]

Xtoxm...seriously, I can't see a CR doing what I did. I sure wouldn't risk it when I did (I might claim doc now as a CR, but only if I thought I was gonna get lynched). Mafia on the other hand...eh. I probably would've killed better if i were mafia.

For one thing, I would've killed YOU earlier, and then BM.

Oh and speculation on whether these powerroles are straight or back-ups are unfounded. Its only your opinion and its hardly accurate.

[Oman]

Yeh but, as a claimed Doc that wouldnt have looked very good now would it?

Too easy to refute ("Oh I was WIFOMing with the scum and they called the bluff")

Of course, that means we arent going to lynch you today anyway, so i dont see why you are so anxious to fakeclaim again...

The best part of that is that at least I won't be lynched until it doesn't really matter.

You think we have another Vig??

Goddamn I keep forgetting.

Oman: A nurse fake claiming doc, I'm not sure I see the point of that.

I had "protection" from both sides. Being powerless (essentially) means I wasn't afraid of getting NKed, my death could even confirm a doctor later. I also wasn't afraid of the cult, so it was game on for me, playing fearlessly.

My role PM says (unfortunatly this is from memory, because I just cleared my inbox and accientally didn't save a few role PMs) If a doctor dies, you will take their powers/will become a doctor.

A few things I looked for ASAP was: Did it specifically say there was a doctor in the game? No. Did it specifically say there would be only one doctor in the game? No.

I figured Dahen was the doc.

[Oman]

[quote="Dahen]Lynch C, Nightkill C: Town wins. But mafia won't do this. [/quote] Mafia can still win here.

[Oman]

Okay, now to beat on Dahen's worst post evar!

Oman: Clearing your inbox like that is stupid. You should die only for that.

Why thank you. Trying to get me killed for a logistical problem, how wonderfully protown of you.

And also for saying a Nurse is a powerless role who is not afraid to die. Nurse is a very good role for the town.

Not without a doctor, and not until the doctor dies. basically, the way I play nurse is none of your business, and how I play it worked well, didn't it?

If there was no gurarantee for a doc in the game, how would your death then guarantee one?

....lulz? If there is a doctor int he game, come crunch my existance would near confirm the doctor as real and not fakeclaiming scum.

Also, by claiming doc, worst case would have been a counter-claim from the real doc, leading to a lynched nurse and a night-killed doc.

Seeing someone claim doc the way I did, Only the worlds worst doctor would counter and get me lynched.

I trust Xtoxm as town, and Dahen as town (for some damn reason).

I want to lynch Norinel or BM, and I won't be swayed.

Norinel has been tagged as a scum for a while. His claim is worse than mine. And I'm getting flak from the "unknown" powerrole who is hardly sensical.

[Oman]

If A Doctor dies?? you didnt think that was a tad odd? I'm not buying that.

That was my point. I felt the role PM was sufficently vague to mean there was not a real doctor or several of them (Shrek Mafia was about several Docs and I was in that one).

So Norinel is claiming that me and dahen are scum...how interesting.

I like dahen for town about now.

Vote Norinel

Not to mention we're really the only lynches and I won't advocate my own lynch.

[Oman]

Vote BM

Yeah, I'm a nurse, Xtoxm is a vig, I trust Dahen (again, buggered if I know why).

[Oman]

Dahen: I'm a nurse. You're a doctor. You don't think that should me you don't lynch me?

Anyway, great play, shame BM threw in the towel like that.


Thanks CKD awesome fun setup, great play,

[Oman]

I was so shocked they lynched me over you.