Mini 559 - Cult Mafia again - Game over

[Elias_the_thief]

Thats exactly the problem with pressure votes. Every time someone used them, they have to go "CALM DOWN GUYZ IT R PRESSURE VOTE" in the same post. I generally dont do that seeing as it defeats the point, I just vote for any old reason in the beginning of the game and join in bandwagoning.

[omg_im_innocent_wtf]

Oman, thanks for your reply.
You haven't commented on my suggested strategy of forbidding claims (except cops with guilty(s)) until a certain point when we mass claim. Isn't that better than trying to mix the proper blend of WIFOM?

omg: How exactly do you feel that you put pressure on someone when you vote her at the same time as saying the vote isn't sound?

it already got her to post. if other people start magically appearing to vote her also then it gives us something to work with as well. for example someone who never mentioned lala that suddenly finds a reason to put a 4th/5th vote on her is usually pretty dodgy. btw, thanks for making me explain this because now it really WILL be useless but please remember this in future.

im just trying to get something happening in this game.

Oman: None of us (including scums) know whether there is a doc except the doc himself. So someone claiming a powerrole doesn't mean the scum would target him that night, no? I understand that claiming will not always work (in any reasonable setup). I just want to point out that fake claiming make the game easier. So i suggest people should either not claim at all or think not just twice but everything through before deciding to claim.

omg: How exactly do you feel that you put pressure on someone when you vote her at the same time as saying the vote isn't sound?

At least I think he realize I'm not scum XD

not a snowballs chance in hell reyo. =)


btw, all - just a heads up, i dont think there is much point in me claiming at all. anyone that has played with me before knows i think lynch all liars is complete crap and would make up whatever role i felt best suited me. for example, if i am a roleblocker i would probly claim townie, if i was townie i would claim doc, if i was scum i can just pick from the 2, if i was cultist then i probably claim townie again lol.

[XReyoX]

anyone that has played with me before knows i think lynch all liars is complete crap and would make up whatever role i felt best suited me. for example, if i am a roleblocker i would probly claim townie, if i was townie i would claim doc, if i was scum i can just pick from the 2, if i was cultist then i probably claim townie again lol.

Perhap thats the reason why people get pissed of at you when you're town. Also, by saying you've an inconsistence playstyle before making a fake claim doesn't make you less scummy in my view.Confusing a few scums together with a whole lot of townie isn't a wise choice I believe.

[XReyoX]

I have mafia experience, not a total n00b, but 98% of that is from real life games, in which day one lynch always seems to be "You never paid me the dollar you borrowed from me two weeks ago" as the basis for a lynch.

I have played a few games on Conquer Club {see my sig} and in a current one, Day 1 went to page 40 something before a lynch was decided upon.
Although we are nowhere near close to 40something pages, I am going to try to avoid another one of those occurences.

By saying you're not a total noob, I would say suggesting a random lynch on D1 is a point against you.

[curiouskarmadog]

due to the rules,

Blazerunner, Friend of Old, GSGold, militant

prodded

[omg_im_innocent_wtf]

anyone that has played with me before knows i think lynch all liars is complete crap and would make up whatever role i felt best suited me. for example, if i am a roleblocker i would probly claim townie, if i was townie i would claim doc, if i was scum i can just pick from the 2, if i was cultist then i probably claim townie again lol.

Perhap thats the reason why people get pissed of at you when you're town. Also, by saying you've an inconsistence playstyle before making a fake claim doesn't make you less scummy in my view.Confusing a few scums together with a whole lot of townie isn't a wise choice I believe.

Do you even read my posts?

At what point in that entire post did i say that i was 'less scummy' at all? I dont even reference the role i have in this game at all, and am talking about my overall metagame.

I am being very patient but when you continuously skim my posts and misrepresent or misunderstand every single thing i say it becomes increasingly frustrating and wastes space and time in this game.

Unvote, Vote Reyo

for continuous anti-town behavior.

[Friend of Old]

Please, stop metagaming before you start, play each game as an individual.

[OMG]I am being very patient but when you continuously skim my posts and misrepresent or misunderstand every single thing i say it becomes increasingly frustrating and wastes space and time in this game.

Unvote, Vote Reyo for continuous anti-town behavior.[/quote]

What? Did I miss something here? How exactly has XreyoX been going continuously against the town? As far as I'm concerned reyo was amking a perfectly vaild point, in fact I'd go so far as to say such a stratagy is scummy as it does not help the town in any way. If we pressure lies the lies may break, by deliberately lying as the town you are providing us with red herrings, which are a pain, if you must claim claim something that will be productive for town.

Unvote, Vote: OMG

for villainising reyo and counter-productivity

[XReyoX]

No you didn't. But if you are to claim at some point, you're probly going to fake claim, aren't you? I'm just trying to point out that once people have found that you've fake claim, saying "I've told you that I'm going to fake claim early in the game" won't make you less scummy than a scum fakeclaiming. I'm suggesting you not to do it.

[Norinel]

But how is that any different from the earlier general discussion on whether or not fakeclaiming is a good idea in this game? The setup kind of encourages it anyway, metagame or not.

[XReyoX]

But how is that any different from the earlier general discussion on whether or not fakeclaiming is a good idea in this game? The setup kind of encourages it anyway, metagame or not.

The setup encourages people to think twice before they claim, not encourages fakeclaims to confuse the hell out of other townies.

[GSGold]

Vote: omg_im_innocent_wtf

This is crap:

Vote Reyo for continuous anti-town behavior.

The worst thing Reyo has done was wonder about the things you've said, which a lot of people have been doing. That's not anti-town in the least, it's trying to figure out who's scum and who isn't.

This is crap:

that said, i would like to at least put pressure on someone to see what happens, and lalaland does seem to be lurking.

There are other people lurking in this game, I just got prodded for example. You could have voted for any of them, but instead you decide to vote for a person that someone else recently voted for?

And this is crap:

btw, all - just a heads up, i dont think there is much point in me claiming at all. anyone that has played with me before knows i think lynch all liars is complete crap and would make up whatever role i felt best suited me. for example, if i am a roleblocker i would probly claim townie, if i was townie i would claim doc, if i was scum i can just pick from the 2, if i was cultist then i probably claim townie again lol.

So you're an intentional liar instead of giving good claims? How is that supposed to help the town at all? You stink of scum.

[Elias_the_thief]

Vote: omg_im_innocent_wtf

This is crap:

Vote Reyo for continuous anti-town behavior.

The worst thing Reyo has done was wonder about the things you've said, which a lot of people have been doing. That's not anti-town in the least, it's trying to figure out who's scum and who isn't.

/agree. Reyo really hasnt been that anti town.

This is crap:

that said, i would like to at least put pressure on someone to see what happens, and lalaland does seem to be lurking.

There are other people lurking in this game, I just got prodded for example. You could have voted for any of them, but instead you decide to vote for a person that someone else recently voted for?

Disagree. Voting for someone thats already been voted for is better than someone who hasnt as it builds more pressure than one vote would. Bandwagons are good, when controlled.

And this is crap:

btw, all - just a heads up, i dont think there is much point in me claiming at all. anyone that has played with me before knows i think lynch all liars is complete crap and would make up whatever role i felt best suited me. for example, if i am a roleblocker i would probly claim townie, if i was townie i would claim doc, if i was scum i can just pick from the 2, if i was cultist then i probably claim townie again lol.

So you're an intentional liar instead of giving good claims? How is that supposed to help the town at all? You stink of scum.

Claims such as he mentioned actually do help town. By claiming town as RB he prevents himself from being NKEd by scum first night. if he claims doc while town he draws the kill away from power roles. These are all good plays, and reasons why lynch all liars is retarded.

[Elias_the_thief]

damn, i forgot to stick with my /agree, /disagree thing all the way through.

[XReyoX]

By claiming town as RB he prevents himself from being NKEd by scum first night.

This means the scum would have gone for someone else and that someone else could be a doc/ cop (more powerful power roles). And if later on in the game you've found a scum with your role blocking, it would be very difficult to convince other townie since you've lied at the beginning. If you've blocked a town power role previously, by not declaring you are one and whom you've blocked, they would think there is a mafia role-blocker as well.

if he claims doc while town he draws the kill away from power roles.

In this case, you'll draw more suspicion from the real doc if there is one. You might even cause the real doc to claim if he really think you're scum. Also, if a doc die after you've fakeclaim, unless you're really good, the chance you could talk yourself out of this is dim.

[omg_im_innocent_wtf]

No you didn't. But if you are to claim at some point, you're probly going to fake claim, aren't you? I'm just trying to point out that once people have found that you've fake claim, saying "I've told you that I'm going to fake claim early in the game" won't make you less scummy than a scum fakeclaiming. I'm suggesting you not to do it.

Im not saying it to appear less scummy. Im saying it to demonstrate the ineffectiveness of someone like me claiming day 1.

Im not saying it to appear less scummy. Im saying it to demonstrate the ineffectiveness of someone like me claiming day 1.

Im not saying it to appear less scummy. Im saying it to demonstrate the ineffectiveness of someone like me claiming day 1.

Im not saying it to appear less scummy. Im saying it to demonstrate the ineffectiveness of someone like me claiming day 1.

Im not saying it to appear less scummy. Im saying it to demonstrate the ineffectiveness of someone like me claiming day 1.

Im not saying it to appear less scummy. Im saying it to demonstrate the ineffectiveness of someone like me claiming day 1.

Im not saying it to appear less scummy. Im saying it to demonstrate the ineffectiveness of someone like me claiming day 1.


This honestly seems to be the only way anything goes through.

[omg_im_innocent_wtf]

Ok. Ill simplify it one time for you guys. This will be the only clarifying post i make on this matter so please just bother to read it.

FACT 1: In this game, it makes theoretical sense to not claim your true role, in most roles fakeclaiming is of benefit.

FACT 2: I am a player who plays to win and has no qualms about lying.

this amazingly enough leads us to,

FACT 3: As I would lie in most roles, there is no point to me claiming day 1 as it couldnt be believed and wouldnt tell you anything about my role.

This has nothing to do with 'being less scummy' or anything else reyo is talking about. It is not really that hard to understand provided you have taken english past a high school level and spend 20 seconds reading a post before commenting on it.

[Elias_the_thief]

By claiming town as RB he prevents himself from being NKEd by scum first night.

This means the scum would have gone for someone else and that someone else could be a doc/ cop (more powerful power roles).

Its better to have that risk with the chance of hitting vanilla than a guaranteed lost roleblocker.

And if later on in the game you've found a scum with your role blocking, it would be very difficult to convince other townie since you've lied at the beginning. If you've blocked a town power role previously, by not declaring you are one and whom you've blocked, they would think there is a mafia role-blocker as well.

If they do that then they are retarded. You explain your reasons for falseclaiming, if the town disbelieves you thats not your mistake, its the towns. Also, if youve blocked a town power role that doesnt indicate youre scum, as scum knows just as little about who the power roles are as town.

if he claims doc while town he draws the kill away from power roles.

In this case, you'll draw more suspicion from the real doc if there is one. You might even cause the real doc to claim if he really think you're scum. Also, if a doc die after you've fakeclaim, unless you're really good, the chance you could talk yourself out of this is dim.

Drawing suspicion from the doc is fine as youre also drawing the nightkill. A counterclaim is very unlikely if the doc is a good player, and if he isnt thats not your fault, its his. and the part about the doc dying after youve fakeclaimed doesnt matter. The whole idea is to draw the NK that night and protect power roles. Suspicion in the future doesnt matter because you'll be dead.

[curiouskarmadog]

Official Vote Count

(Page 7)

omg_im_innocent_wtf

– 5 (Norinel, lalaland, Oman, Friend of Old, GSGold)

Blazerunner

– 1 (XreyoX)

XreyoX

– 1 (omg_im_innocent_wtf)

Oman

– 1 (dahen)

lalaland

- (Elias_the_thief)

Not Voting:

Blazerunner, militant, GhostWriter

With 12 alive, it's 7 to lynch. 6 is a no lynch.

[Elias_the_thief]

mod, i switched my vote to lalaland a while back

fixed

[GhostWriter]

As far as I see it, OMG is proving to be more pro-town than that bandwagon is giving him credit for. By misunderstanding half the things he says and by not being able to fully see how certain fake claims can benefit the town, a lot of you seem to be blindly placing a vote on anyone that thinks differently than you or than you feel they should. So far, all he's done is explain his gameplay ahead of time. I find nothing scummy about that at all. The way that he's described what he WOULD do (not what he's actually doing, but what he would, theoretically do, or could have done) if he were in those roles that he has listed, it sounds very beneficial to which ever side he plays. As of right now, taking Elias' change to lalaland, various lurkers suddenly reappeared and jumped on a bandwagon, all following pretty much the same exact reasons and put him at L-2. If that's how you respond to a prod, jumping on the biggest vote at the time and regurgitating a previous reason, then please, never leave again.

[Elias_the_thief]

By the way, bandwagons are good. I'll agree that the one on OMG is baseless, and a little too large for my liking right now.

[GhostWriter]

Oh, I know bandwagons can be good. I was only specifically talking about this one.

[XReyoX]

This means the scum would have gone for someone else and that someone else could be a doc/ cop (more powerful power roles).

Its better to have that risk with the chance of hitting vanilla than a guaranteed lost roleblocker.[/quote]

This is only when you are assuming we haven't got a doc.

If they do that then they are retarded. You explain your reasons for falseclaiming, if the town disbelieves you thats not your mistake, its the towns.

This is the point, how could you distinguish a fakeclaiming town and a fakeclaiming scum? When playing mafia, people get paronoid. They try to question everything everyone says. Now that if you fakeclaim, then it doesn't only make people disbelieve you but also give excuses for the scums to jump onto your wagon.


Got to go, I'll continue when i get back.

[Blazerunner]

There is something, IMO about this fakeclaiming discussion, that might be going a little unnoticed

It can be good for townies, if all townies understand it is fake, AND ALL SCUMS DON'T, and if we are all openly saying "fakeclaiming is ok", then the mafia wont buy it... Its a coinflip.

That is the problem of metagame... We say "fakeclaiming is ok", so no one buys it, even the mafia. Then, if all scums will believe you are lying, claiming the truth now is the best thing to do. But if telling the truth is what people should do because everybody thinks they are faking, then everybody should expect people to tell the truth. But if mafia expects the truth, we should fakeclaim. Then we should tell the truth. Fake. Truth. Fake. Truth....

You see? Following the metagame leads us to a loop. So its basically a coinflip if people are, in principle faking or not, and if they are, in principle, expecting townies to fake or not...

[omg_im_innocent_wtf]

ty for more eloquently making the point i was trying to explain blaze. you dont feel like being my omg -> reyo translator do you? if you could just summarise my posts after i post for those that arent reading them correctly?

for those that seem to have a problem understanding my posts, i think it must be that some of you are just skimming them because i post so much, that post by blaze is exactly what i was trying to say.

with the exception of those players who have a metagame of 'never lying' claiming becomes a levelling exercise and thus claiming is relatively pointless.