omg_im_innocent_wtf wrote:ty for more eloquently making the point i was trying to explain blaze. you dont feel like being my omg -> reyo translator do you? if you could just summarise my posts after i post for those that arent reading them correctly?
for those that seem to have a problem understanding my posts, i think it must be that some of you are just skimming them because i post so much, that post by blaze is exactly what i was trying to say.
with the exception of those players who have a metagame of 'never lying' claiming becomes a levelling exercise and thus claiming is relatively pointless.
OH NOES now they will think I am sided with you *runz*
Blazerunner wrote:There is something, IMO about this fakeclaiming discussion, that might be going a little unnoticed
It can be good for townies, if all townies understand it is fake, AND ALL SCUMS DON'T, and if we are all openly saying "fakeclaiming is ok", then the mafia wont buy it... Its a coinflip.
Blaze: you didn't take into account that townies are on their own while scums can discuss together at night. If we assume that everyone's analytical skill is equal, then coudl figure out whether someone's fakeclaiming before the rest of us.
XReyoX wrote:
This means the scum would have gone for someone else and that someone else could be a doc/ cop (more powerful power roles).
Its better to have that risk with the chance of hitting vanilla than a guaranteed lost roleblocker.
This is only when you are assuming we haven't got a doc.
No. I'd rather take the risk with other power roles then the assured loss of one. Its more likely they hit vanilla than power role.
XReyoX wrote:
Elias_the_thief wrote:
If they do that then they are retarded. You explain your reasons for falseclaiming, if the town disbelieves you thats not your mistake, its the towns.
This is the point, how could you distinguish a fakeclaiming town and a fakeclaiming scum? When playing mafia, people get paronoid. They try to question everything everyone says. Now that if you fakeclaim, then it doesn't only make people disbelieve you but also give excuses for the scums to jump onto your wagon.
If he's already explained that he fakeclaims prior to making the claim then the town should believe him. Even if he takes back his claim, it doesnt make him that suspicious because revealing yourself as something else really doesnt have THAT much benefit to scum.
Elias_the_thief wrote:
If he's already explained that he fakeclaims prior to making the claim then the town should believe him. Even if he takes back his claim, it doesnt make him that suspicious because revealing yourself as something else really doesnt have THAT much benefit to scum.
I dont like the sound of you saying now that even if he fakeclaims, we should believe he is townie just because he already told he might fakeclaim... If thats the case, everybody can come here, say "I agree, fakeclaiming rox" and everybody claims the fuck up... Then the town is with trouble...
um...ok. Because one person saying that they fakeclaim definately means that EVERYONE will do it. Makes perfect sense.
Listen, I'm not saying we should believe everyone on this, but OMG ALWAYS fakeclaims. I've seen it in games with him before. I'm talking meta right now.
Anyways, why exactly are you voting me? Does saying that I would believe a fakeclaim really make me scum? Think before you vote, what benefit does it give to scum? If its not much, then your vote is a poor one (hint: your vote is a poor one).
There is an amazing amount of bad voting going on. Why are so many of you jumping at the smallest thing? It does nothing more than make you look more suspicious.
XReyoX wrote:Blaze: you didn't take into account that townies are on their own while scums can discuss together at night. If we assume that everyone's analytical skill is equal, then coudl figure out whether someone's fakeclaiming before the rest of us.
More importantly, the scum knows who's scum, so they know that a claimant is either townie or cult, and can rule out quite a few possibilities accordingly.
unvote: omg
since that bandwagon doesn't seem to be accomplishing anything.
vote: lalaland
for being really low volume and trying too hard to get things moving even though she admits it's kind of pointless. There are other people I'd vote right now, but she's the only one that's got an other votes.
both tried to jump on my bandwagon with crap logic when it looked like i may get lynched, now they have been exposed they both suddenly decide to vote elsewhere.
OMG: (Sigh) Listen, I don't think I have misunderstood you at all. All along, I'm just trying to say that i think fakeclaiming is not a good idea. I've said in one of my posts in the beginning of the game that confusing scums is good but you'll have to consider the confusion it would cause the town and how it's going to affect the decisions the rest of us would make. In this game, it's not you alone against the scums, its all of us. By claiming a power role when you are not, you could be wasting a doc's protection; by claiming a townie when you're a power role, the doc could waste his protection on someone else. The person who has claimed to be a power role is usually asked to provide evidence of their role. When he fails to convince others that he is not lying, he could draw a cop's investigation (which obviously would be a waste). With more than 10 people in the game, someone would be able to figure out if you fakeclaim. All of us know that scums, when asked to claim, would claim townies/ town power roles, and the most obvious evidence to tell they are scums is when the identities of the dead and the night scenes contradict with what they said they've done or what they are. When the towns fakeclaim as well, how are we able to tell whether they are lying townies or lying scums? Townies don't NEED to lie, scums do (unless they are stupid). Townie fakeclaiming will allow another door for the scums to lie, blend in, and confuse the town, and possibly escape from a lynch.
As for the basis of your strategy, the scums have to believe that you're claiming true in the first place. This has already been blown since you more or less is telling everyone that you're going to fakeclaim. Now, try and put yourself in the scums shoes. If you see OMG claiming so and so later in the game, are you going to believe in what he has claimed? In addition, as norinel and I have said, scum know who's scum. They can discuss at night and this means they are much more likely to work out that you're fakeclaiming than individual townie would.
I'm still open to discussion on this strategy and I hope you can provide me with links which shows you've tricked the scums into falling into that fakeclaim trap of yours or any other games which show town fakeclaiming has worked without causing any side effects on the town. I've not played any games where a townie has fakeclaimed with good results ( actually most of them ended quite badly).
Of course you can still fakeclaim to be whatever you want. You can sabotage the town by doing bizzare things. I've provided the reasons in which I think it's not a strategy I'd like to use and how I'd response to such a situation.
Perhaps I should have used "wouldn't" instead of "doesn't" when I was saying claiming to fakeclaim before fakeclaiming doesn't make one less scummy. I'm sorry if my posts sounded like i'm attacking you but if you isolate them, you see that I haven't even put a fos on you. I was supprised that you were continously voting and unvoting me. And I was even more supprised that you've got to L-2 without me voting at all but because this is the first wagon, it's hard to tell whether people were trying to pressure vote you or scum were diving in in hope for a lynch (which is stupid).
Also, I hope that you were just frustated and weren't trying to insult me personally when saying I should understand your post if I have taken english past a HS level. English is literally my fifth language if you haven't realize already from the way I write. I wasn't skimming your posts either.
Elias_the_thief wrote:um...ok. Because one person saying that they fakeclaim definately means that EVERYONE will do it. Makes perfect sense.
Listen, I'm not saying we should believe everyone on this, but OMG ALWAYS fakeclaims. I've seen it in games with him before. I'm talking meta right now.
Anyways, why exactly are you voting me? Does saying that I would believe a fakeclaim really make me scum? Think before you vote, what benefit does it give to scum? If its not much, then your vote is a poor one (hint: your vote is a poor one).
Hmmm, it seemed to me you were kind of defending OMG when everybody was atacking him, saying we should believe hes townie even if he claimed andwe discovered it was a fake...
But you are right, a vote was kind of hasty, I should have FoSed you or just asked for an explanation...
Anyway, can I just unvote, or do I need to vote someone else to do it?
If I can...
GhostWriter wrote:Reyo... this whole time, OMG has been stating why he will NOT be roleclaiming on day 1. Why do you believe that he plans to roleclaim?
I'm not talking about day 1 only. claiming on day is plain stupid.
GhostWriter wrote:Reyo... this whole time, OMG has been stating why he will NOT be roleclaiming on day 1. Why do you believe that he plans to roleclaim?
I'm not talking about day 1 only. claiming on day 1 is plain stupid.
