Mini 559 - Cult Mafia again - Game over

[XReyoX]

If you aren't buying it, why aren't you voting? Is the current topic of discussion less important than the fifth vote on a lurker wagon?

My vote is on GS.

[omg_im_innocent_wtf]

This wagon has grown way too fast for my liking.

Im pretty happy to kill oman or FoO instead, thoughts?

[XReyoX]

This wagon has grown way too fast for my liking.

Im pretty happy to kill oman or FoO instead, thoughts?

Vote whoever you want but just back it up with more reasons. I'm not happy that GS is not showing up so I'm sticking with my vote for the moment.

[Oman]

Im pretty happy to kill oman or FoO instead, thoughts?

Why and why?

[curiouskarmadog]

Official Vote Count

(Page 11)

GSGold

– 5 (omg_im_innocent_wtf, Elias_the_thief, Friend of Old, XreyoX, Blazerunner)

omg_im_innocent_wtf

– 3 (lalaland, Oman, GSGold)

lalaland

– 1 (Norinel)

Oman

– 1 (dahen)

Not Voting:

Xtoxm, GhostWriter,

With 12 alive, it's 7 to lynch. 6 is a no lynch.

lalaland has not picked up her prod, she will be replaced tomorrow morning if she doesnt post

[Norinel]

If you aren't buying it, why aren't you voting? Is the current topic of discussion less important than the fifth vote on a lurker wagon?

My vote is on GS.

I think my words sort of got twisted around... why aren't you voting FoO? GSGold's primarily a lurker who'll get unvoted once he gets replaced; the OMG vote could be something, but is it more interesting than someone we can actually discuss now?

[Friend of Old]

Okay, I'll try and do something useful, however my thoughts aren't great. My analysis of before stands up pretty much as it did, we start talking about strategy, then OMG, then roleclaiming, then we have a few lurker wagons, nothing special much. Throughout play what I've noticed is that OMG has an incredibly short temper and a tad confrontational, speaking of OMG there are two things I'd like to say.
Firstly, why would you like me or Oman dead?
Secondly, if that is the case why are you voting GS?
The second question also applies to Reyo, you call me an active lurker and call me scum for saying I really have nothing much useful to contribute, but you follow my style of play and continue to sit on the lurker wagon. If you think I'm scum then you should at the very least FoS me. I wonder why you didn't.

Okay, so onto what is important in mafia, suspicions. Now, as I have already stated, I haven't as of yet got any major suspicions on anybody, and yes I know there are a load of pages to trawl through but most of that is the arguments beween Reyo and OMG. What has struck me throughout that is OMG's poor temper and tendancy to say things that are misunderstood, according to him.

The main point I picked out from OMG is that he always fakeclaims, thus rendering lynch the liar pointless. From what I recall OMG said at the start is that the first thing to do in any situation is to discuss strategy, which Reyo was more than happy to do in this situation, however this seemed to anger OMG because he claimed he was being misunderstood. However his unwillingness to discuss this with Reyo seems a tad inconsistent with his earlier statements.

However there is one person who really wanted to kill such a discussion, this being Oman, who claimed that discussing such would at worst render it pointless because the scum would know whatt the town is planning, at best render the whole thing WIFOM, niether situation did he like so he preferred that stone left unturned.

When I think about it there have only been a few major contributors to this thread, these being Reyo, OMG (for better or for worse), Elias and to a lesser extent GW and I believe blaze has made some valuable input. Most of the rest have been very minor players in comparison, thus difficult to get a read off. Reyo has mostly been arguing with Elias and OMG. GW has been sitting around declaring various people innocent, Elias has been hovering here and there making various comments. I don't really get the stink of scum from any of them, however I don't think I've really seen GW square up to someone and pronounce them scum as of yet nor cast a vote, but rather has been allying with other major players calling them town. So if I might be so bold as to ask, GW, who do you think is scum?

After all of that what do I think? Firstly I agree that OMG may well be town, but I think he is a bit of a loose cannon, and his last couple of posts have not been at all helpful. Reyo strikes me as the most townie player so far and I want to see Ghostwriter making some accusations. As for who is scum? I'd like to see the lurkers make themselves known, so as to get a better read off of them, but I think Oman may be scum because of his attempts to kill off some of the strategy discussion, and some confrontational posts I believe, and I think that GhostWriter may be buddying up to Reyo and OMG.

FoS: Oman & GW

[GhostWriter]

Right now, GSGold and militant look the most suspicious to me.

That's been said before, however, both of these players seem to have lurked themselves right out of the game. As of now, I'm actually willing to follow through on a lynch of GSG, that way, if he's replaced, his replacement does not get the chance to divert away from the feelings we already have towards his stance. Already, Xtoxm isn't on my list, though militant was. I also am having trouble seeing Oman's stance.

[XReyoX]

I think my words sort of got twisted around... why aren't you voting FoO? GSGold's primarily a lurker who'll get unvoted once he gets replaced

My main focus was just to get them posting. I was deciding between lalaland, oman, GS and FOO at that time.

Firstly, elias unvoted lalaland and went for GS so she was on 1. Putting my vote on her making it a 2 doesn't look like it would do much. She was prodded that day as well so I she was out of my list.

Secondly, I kind of made a post addressing oman before I post. Oman is quite active, so I didn't think I'd need to vote him to get a reply or something.

FOO just started to get more active and I made an fos against him on the same post I vote GS. I think that was all I need to get him posting.

Since I've fos GS before I placed my vote on him which didn't do anything and the fact that the wagon is building up, I believed my vote best go to him.

I usually fos people first and wait to see if I could get the answer I want before voting them. It let other people to know where I'm going at the same time as well which I think should be a bad thing. I find people who go "Wah... This is a scumtell! Vote: You straight away " quite scummy, so I don't do it usually.

FOO: Thanks for the effort. It is going to take me some time to digest your post though. But before I'm off, just wanna point out that GW's posts have constantly been sending me scummy vibes. I've tried re-re-rereading his posts numerous times but I couldn't nail down whats so scummy. After spending an hour or so just reading his 10 odd posts, I realized that it was his avatar (not joking). His posts don't alarm me when I'm not looking at it. It really creeped me out like hell, but its probably my brain messing up (as usual). gah....

[Oman]

but I think Oman may be scum because of his attempts to kill off some of the strategy discussion

Where have i done this?

[Friend of Old]

I'm reffering to when Reyo was trying to talk about fakeclaiming and its benefits or lack of thereof. When this was happening you posted a few times telling him to stop where he was and shut up about it. I know you had valid reasons behind it, the WIFOM situation you claimed it would make, but it still struck me as trying to kill the discussion, and I wonder if there was an ulterior motive?
I know it is weak, but like I said before there have been no major scumtells that I've seen so far.

[curiouskarmadog]

Pink Puppy replaces lalaland as of right now...

[Pink Puppy]

Hi all! I have been reading along with the game, so I sort of have a feel for it. I also am halfway through a good re-read, so I will be posting shortly.

The only thing I know for sure is that omg is overdefensive.

[Pink Puppy]

OKAY...

First, want to make a quick comment on the "omg vs. reyo" incident. The way I see it is that nobody ever misunderstood anybody else... you just have a difference of opinion. omg... did you really have to make a "scale of scumminess" in post 49?? LOL that was silly.

Norinel

- I feel is doing the minimum, which would sometimes make me suspicious, but when he does post I normally agree with the logic, and his reads of people. So I can't say I have any problem with him now.

reyo

- I think has been trying the hardest to participate and find scum. With the amount he is posting I would expect to find some little bits of scumminess is he was scum. But I can't pin anything down.

oman

hasn't been very helpful, and had to be pushed to discuss strategy (when he probably has a lot to add since he's played the cult game before).

dahen

- i generally agree with his points and haven't seen him say anything scummy. Although I would like more participation.

FoO

- has been making lurker votes and pretending to be lost -- having no read on people. That's lame. Now he's fosing oman and GW. I'd like a better explanation of that. Like maybe some quotes.

GW

- i didn't like post 183:

There is an amazing amount of bad voting going on. Why are so many of you jumping at the smallest thing? It does nothing more than make you look more suspicious.

I really dislike this post. He tells everyone they're voting badly... which you can't even know unless you know who scum is. I guess he just objects to people "jumping at the smallest thing." And I really don't like that comment, because that is the game of mafia: jumping at the smallest thing. You pick apart little things and see if they become bigger.

GW's comment here is a "stopper." It encourages people to stop posting, stop discussing. That's a prime scum tactic. Either confuse people or end discussion. Games with lurkers or low participation favor scum.

militant

was not helpful.

xtoxm

replaces and says:

Elias - I think is scum. Seems like he's making poor excuses for votes (lalaland) and as i've already said don't like the Omg case. Getting that general scum feel...

and then omg says:

Elias - This isnt an fos etc, but i agree that i do get a general vibe from your posts of manipulative scum. im not going to give a direct example because i cant think of one, but i do get a general feeling of scumminess from you and have since early on in this game.

And really neither of them have given good reasons IMO. I don't mind if they think elias is scum, but I do mind if they don't have a real reason. I doesn't have to be a big reason. It can be a small reason, explained well, and I would buy it. But this "feeling" stuff is BS. Also seems like omg is only too happy to lynch anyone but himself. This little bit with Elias goes nowhere and so Omg posts this:

Im pretty happy to kill oman or FoO instead, thoughts?

That comes out of nowhere, and is yet again, not supported with reasoning. At best, that's not helpful. At worst, scummy!

And I don't understand this wagon on GSGold. Is it just because he's lurking? Or everyone's getting tired?

[Pink Puppy]

It occurs to me I haven't commented on everyone's play. I guess that's because of lurking.

Although I haven't really commented on Elias either. I don't have too much to say about him, but I would like to hear why some people say he's scummy.

Can anyone make a case for why Elias is scum?

Can anyone make a case why GSGold is scum?

I think I brought up some stuff about GW, omg, and xtoxm. But I'm unclear about the Elias or GSGold cases.

[GhostWriter]

I never implied that they should stop talking and such. By having the statement of "bad voting" in the sentence before, that implies that I did not approve of the random jumping on of votes. Continued discussion of things is wonderful; I wouldn't want that to stop. However, I don't like the voting just for the hell of it, which is what seemed to have been going on. You claim I'm acting scummy, however, I think it's scummy that you feel it's alright for people to go around voting others, with half of them not stating why, and another bunch of them just repeating one another. If you see that as pro-town, then you may need to reassess your gameplay.

[Pink Puppy]

I'm just saying that you tell people they are playing badly without leading the way to better play or better voting, or really contributing anything other than to say others are playing poorly. You may say you don't want people to stop discussing, but I think that is the effect that your sort of comment can have. And it's page 11 and you're not voting anyone. How are you being helpful at all? You're just telling the rest of us how bad a job we're doing. Well, thanks for helping.

And I never said that I think people should vote whoever and give no reasons. In fact I asked lots of people to give more reasons, and explain themselves better. But actually, if people jump their vote around a lot and give weak reasons, it's really not so bad because it gives us something to discuss, analyze, and hopefully catch someone.

[Oman]

When this was happening you posted a few times telling him to stop where he was and shut up about it. I know you had valid reasons behind it, the WIFOM situation you claimed it would make, but it still struck me as trying to kill the discussion, and I wonder if there was an ulterior motive?

I did it because the mafia and cult are both looking for opposite things. The mafia is looking for powerroles, the cult is looking for townies. The best night for us is when the mafia kills a townie and the cult tries to recruit a powerrole (barring doc protect etc).

What Reyo was doing was basically giving each scum faction the information they want and reducing the chance of the perfect night to 0. I don't mind discussing strats, but lets make sure they're not going to ruin the game.

Okay lets discuss a good strat.

The only time I would advocate claiming (I'd advocate it now if people could use it to trick around the scums, but I don't know how smart half of you are), is if the mafia kill the cult leader tonight (as in 500) and we can play this like a regular game.

As always on my strat discussions: I could be wrong.

[curiouskarmadog]

GSGold has 48 hours to post or he will be replaced

[Norinel]

Can anyone make a case why GSGold is scum?

I'll also admit I'm curious. There was one thing that OMG came up with back in post 212:

I'm keeping my vote on OMG for trying to paint Norinel as a bandwagoning scum when in fact it was a semi-random vote.

Unvote, Vote: GSGold

This was written right after i called out the 2 others for jumping on my bandwagon.

1. This looks to me like: 'Hey, Im not moving off, Im not scum'.

2. It is craplogic when thought about, particularly as I mentioned that I was in particular suspicious of Friend of Old and just included Norinel as he had done the same thing.

3. Constant lurking, and joining my bandwagon at an opportunistic time in the first place.

This is the first vote Im actually pretty happy with.

Which is a point, though I'm not sure it's a point worth keeping someone at lynch-2 if they're probably just going to get replaced anyway. Admittedly, I have yet to come up with a better idea, so I'll throw one out there:

unvote: Pink Puppy, vote: GhostWriter

for the points PP and FOO made and going way out of his way to defend OMG earlier today. It seems a little too obvious for a GW-OMG scumpairing (Not that I'm ruling anything out at this stage, of course), but the behavior makes sense regardless of OMG's alignment. If a lot of people are coming down on an angry townie for halfway decent reasons, making it look like you're dissuading the town from it is a good way to generate goodwill for later. Plus there was the stuff I was telling OMG earlier about assuming laziness or ill intentions in large swaths of the town, but that's getting to what PP said anyway.

[XReyoX]

I think I've brought something up about GS before and I'm still not sure why people think elias is scum. GW telling people they are crap voting but not making any effort to improve the situation is not useful. But I don't think its that scummy. It just sounded like "Are you all stupid? Why are you guys voting like this? (Sigh) I'm coming back when there are more stuffs happening."

[XReyoX]

[quote="Oman]The best night for us is when the mafia kills

a townie and

the cult

tries to recruit a powerrole (barring doc protect etc).

[/quote]

fixed

[Blazerunner]

[quote="Oman]The best night for us is when the mafia kills

a townie and

the cult

tries to recruit a powerrole (barring doc protect etc).

fixed [/quote][/quote]

I thin by "etc." He meant such things that are obviously good, doc protection, cult killed, doc investigating one of the mafia...

[Blazerunner]

I thin by "etc." He meant such things that are obviously good, doc protection, cult killed,

doc

COP

investigating one of the mafia...

[Elias_the_thief]

So yeah...where is GSGold?