Mini 559 - Cult Mafia again - Game over

[XReyoX]

Now omg seems more interested in himself, which is not good townie behaviour.
Elias seems to share my view.
omg continues to focus on himself

LOFL

[Battle Mage]

Ok, first useful post of the game comes from Omg. His setup analysis seems pretty protown-it’s the first thing I thought of doing when I looked at the game.
We know there is 1 cultist. Im not totally convinced that we have a GF as opposed to 2 goons. The idea of a GF, is that it belittles the value of a cop. I think the POSSIBILITY of a GF could be enough to serve the same purpose. I mean, all cop innocents are going to be taken with a pinch of salt, which in itself could be the factor that balances it to the town and the cult. I think his comments on the protown power role front are extremely valid. Obviously we have a Cop, and most probably we have a Doctor and an RB. I’m torn about a 4th power role though, as whilst it would undoubtedly reduce the cults power and make it more reasonable, it could eliminate the likelihood of scum claiming power roles (obviously if 4 are already revealed, any more are going to be bogus).
Unfortunately this is where my praise ends. I don’t see the analysis of what COULD happen to be of much value, especially as it is built on false situations. When I first looked at this game, my thought was, “shit we need to kill the cult leader straight away, otherwise we are well and truly f*ed. But upon closer inspection, the odds of a recruitment being successful aren’t that great. Odds are, they will only make a successful recruitment on every 2nd night, which means even by Day 3, they will probably only be the same size as the mafia, except without an NK.
His next post reeks of paranoia. Im not sure where he drew the conclusion that Elias suspected him of being scum, but his reaction leaves me completely bemused.
Dahen is of course correct in saying that not claiming atall is the best policy, although im not sure what he means buy a strategic massclaim later in the game.

Explanation?

Oman’s post 24 is spot on. Good to see Friend of Old pick up on Omg for this. His responses (post 36-38) give a further impression of defensiveness.
Post 40 is made very nervously. Very scummy vibes.
Blazerunners defence of him is also notable.
OMG does explain himself later, but I still think he was protesting a bit too much.
Post 50 is another false dilemma brought up by OMG. Its perhaps the most pathetically obvious mafia excuse I’ve ever seen. You think that, if we had 7 players, including 1 mafia and a cult recruiter, we would choose NOT to lynch the mafia member? Or perhaps more worryingly, you don’t seem to have quite got to grips with the fact that the Cult is an enemy of the town AS WELL AS the Mafia. Note how he aptly neglects to mention the possibility of him being a member of the former.
Then he responds to Xreyox’s assuation of him being overdefensive, with a protest, and then an OMGUS vote. Just rofl. Srsly. Also notable is his seemed unfamiliarity with the townie role pm (referring to it as ‘villager’).
Then Elias chimes in, claiming that:
1. Overdefensiveness is not a scumtell (interested to hear reason for this)
2. OMG posts a lot, so he is probably town. (explanation on this should be forthcoming too)
3. OMG wasn’t being overdefensive anyway, although he was pre-emptively defensive to an unnecessary extent.

0.o

Post 55, and OMG continues pushing the same shite-logic. Here’s a question for ya: How do you suppose we differentiate between cult and mafia? They’re both scum at the end of the day. Using this logic is bad enough, but you are using it to DEFEND YOURSELF?
Post 56 by Elias is a slight change of tune. He suggests that perhaps OMG is posting too much, which is why he gives off a scummy vibe. But I thought posting frequently was a town-tell Elias?
Post 61, Elias claims that OMG is not playing to his town-meta, which is interesting, as it doesn’t appear to look like distancing.
Post 62 is so much bs, its hilarious. Could you get it any MORE wrong?
Post 64 seems paranoid. As far as I can see there was little bias in Xreyox’s question. OMG is still seeming way too defensive, and the fact he doesn’t realise it is all the more scummy.
Post 70 is frustratingly arrogant. Does this guy seriously believe that a pathetic explanation confirms his innocence?! Has he ever played mafia before on this site???
Hate to break it to you dude, but your whole attitude up till now has been defensive. Not entirely unforgivable as you have been legitimately attacked a fair bit, but even so, you cant argue with facts.
Blazerunner steps up to defend OMG, but does ask some pretty relevant questions. Not sure about his ‘village strategy’ though. Cant see how he came up with it, or how it would benefit us ATALL… :$
I really like Friend of Old’s post 77. Pretty much mimics how I’ve been feeling up to this point. Page 4, and Xreyox appears to be taking up the Prolific Poster mantle from OMG.
GhostWriter seems reluctant to talk. Something about him seems telling, but I cant figure out which way he goes yet…
Post 85 seems to be a false dilemma, but Ghost Writer does make it sound convincing I have to say. Sadly his theory comes unstuck at the fact that OMG was acting overdefensive long before he came under pressure for it.

Post 88 made me smile. Sounds like the kind of challenge I love. An incredibly easy one. OMG, I suggest you read everything I’ve said up till now. Then, I challenge you to find me ONE post of yours which ISNT uber-defensive.
In post 89 he is starting to make more sense. In post 90, Blazerunner seems to unintentionally belittle the case on OMG, on false grounds. But can I really find that malicious in a guy who doesn’t know what an FoS is? Lol

Woah, post 94 is ringing serious alarm bells with me. Elias- yep the guy who said posting frequently was a town tell- is now suggesting that OMG deserves a vote for doing this! 0.o
He denies the validity of the over-defensiveness argument, yet does not wonder at the motives of the people pushing such an argument. The meta argument makes his case stronger, but I don’t really feel he is actually scumhunting here.
Dahens post 97 (his first post?) features a good question.
My response to Blazerunner’s suggested strategy is that it is incredibly pro-cult. No lynching gives them a free recruit attempt, and there is no logic I can see for the cop claiming on Day 2, instead of Day 1. Post 103 brings up a strange situation. I actually think that in contrast to his immense faith in his own mafia ability, OMG does not think much of anyone else, and ironically, commits the same offence here that he attacked others for earlier…
In post 104 he again assumes that the mafia defo have a GF. Is this deliberately misleading the town, or is he revealing info? The latter seems more likely imo.
Post 105 by Oman is timely and accurate. Norinel suggests that we may not have a Cop and a Doc atall. Post 110 by Dahen is a little surprising, jumping in with a vote for Oman. His case isn’t terrible, but I think hes looking a little one-sidedly. Anyway, I don’t think its necessarily scum, just probably wrong. Friend of old puts pressure on lurkers. Militants subsequent post is scummy. Post 113 by Ghostwriter makes good sense. OMG requests more hasty bandwagonning.
Elias responds suitably with a vote for OMG. :p
Interesting that Xreyox questions CKD’s vote, and Blazerunner again undermines it. Militants post 122 is frustratingly pointless and dumb. Thank god for Ghostwriter tbh.
Post 124 is strange. CKD continues his vote, whilst admitting his reasons are weak…
Omans defence is strong. LaLaland makes Lalalittle sense… like so many others, he excuses OMG’s scummy play, stating that he finds him innocent, and then chucks a vote on, saying that he is the scummiest player so far. Wtf is that?
Don’t like Xreyox’s post 136. Seems like fabricated reasoning to attack Oman. Either that, or he has serious comprehension problems.
Post 138 by Elias is good. Oman is wrong in post 139. I think the Mod said that the only mafia power role available was a GF, but I could be totally off the mark here.
141 is another stinker by OMG. He says basically that the case on LaLaLand is laughably poor (which I feel is a bit strong) and yet he decides to put pressure on, despite having no reason to believe he is scum. Im not buying post 142 either. If I can understand what Oman means, theres no excuse for anyone else. Post 143 by Dahen made me smile with its legitimacy. 
Post 147 does kind of invoke sympathy for LaLaLand. I mean, his family deal in DOLLARS ffs. 0.o Him choosing not to play the newbie card is a towntell.
Post 148 makes Elias sound remarkably similar to LLL who he attacked for wanting a random lynch. Rofl
Post 151 makes me like OMG slightly more. He shares my policy on LaL, and he DID succeed in getting a lurker to post. Maybe once we’ve lynched you, we can meet up for a drink?
It worries me that in Post 153, XReyox looks like he wants to use LLL’s honesty as a reason to vote him…
Post 155 is a funny one. Mr

OMG

US USA 2008 votes for Xreyox, and I especially like his way of validating it to a ridiculously superficial extent. Somehow, Xreyox misreading him at the start of the post, turns into ‘Continuous Anti-Town Behaviour’ by the end! Lol
Friend of Old steps in with a good post. Elias, Elias, Elias. Where were you when I needed you in Clue Mafia?? Post 163 by Xreyox is shit-logic btw. Through and through.
Post 165 is fair enough, but it doesn’t explain why on earth OMG felt the need to mention his meta in the first place. It just gives the scum more chance of outguessing him. I should note that I disagree with Xreyox’s assuation that a Doc is more useful than an RB. I’d say an RB > Doc but a Cop > RB in terms of ability to help the town catch scum. His suggestion that a Mafia RB might be suspected is only true if the RB blocks a CLAIMED POWER ROLE, which is a false dilemma.
Ghostwriter defends OMG.
Elias claims that wagon on OMG is baseless in agreement with him. Post 173 by Blazerunner wins the BEST POST OF THE GAME AWARD! *insert copyright symbol here*
I should note that, following on from that, the ideal stance with regard to claiming, is either to not do it atall, or to make sure that everyone is aware that the claims MAY not be true. Giving the scum indication of the truthfulness of our claim is bad play.
175 is a strange post. Id like to think it’s a joke, but… 0.o
I feel Blazerunners vote on Elias is justified. It is possible that he is setting up for a scum gambit later on.
Post 186 is interesting. Im not sure I like the way Norinel bailed from the dying wagon there. Post 187 is remarkably protown by OMG. Its not how id expect scum to behave. Oh and the stuff about scum being somehow more intelligent and more able to crack WIFOM than town seems like BS to me. I mean 2 heads are better than one, but I don’t think we should be shitting ourselves just yet. Lol
I think Blazerunner lets Elias off lightly. Xreyox makes little sense at the end of Page 8/start of Page 9.
Odd that Dahen cites the first protown post OMG makes as being the first SCUMMY one. 0.0 Post 204 seems a bit impatient with regard to Ghostrider from Xreyox. Oman stinks of town. Elias on the other hand, seems a bit forced in his constant, unrelenting defence of OMG.
Post 212. OMG is back. OMGUSes GSGold. In post 213 he admits his logical error, but doesn’t take the vote off.
Need I say again that Xreyox’s logic is terrible. Oman has been spot on this game, probably because he’s played the setup before. Wagon on GS builds on grounds of lurking. Cant say I think its scummy to BW a lurker.

Ok im at the start of Page 10. Heres my LoS so far:

OMG – Highly Scummy
Elias- Fairly Scummy

Militant- Slightly Scummy
LaLaLand- Slightly Scummy (now Xtoxm)
XreyoX- Slightly scummy

Norinel- Neutral
Dahen- Neutral
BlazeRunner- Neutral

Ghostwriter- Fairly Protown
FriendofOld- Very protown
Oman- Highly protown

Anyone ranked Fairly Scummy or higher is someone I’d be willing to lynch on the spot. Anyone ranked Slightly scummy is one to keep an eye on, and could be lynchable in the future.
Anyone ranked neutral, I cant really find anything major that suggests they are either protown or anti-town.
Fairly Protown means that im leaning towards protown, but not absolutely sure.
Very Protown or above means you are virtually beyond reproach, and im nearly certain that you are town, or at the very least, not going to be lynched for a while.

I’ll continue reading over the weekend fo’ sure. In meantime,

Unvote, Vote: OMG

if I am not already.

BM

[Xtoxm]

I replaced Militant.

[Battle Mage]

ah sorry. i mustve put that on the wrong line. :p

[XReyoX]

OMG. I'm too tired to read this thesis right now. Maybe Tommorrow.

[curiouskarmadog]

Official Vote Count

(Page 14)

omg_im_innocent_wtf

– 4 (Oman, Friend of Old, Pink Puppy, Battle Mage)

Battle Mage

– 2 (Elias_the_thief, XreyoX)

Oman

– 2 (dahen, omg_im_innocent_wtf )

GhostWriter

– 1 (Norinel)

dahen

–1 (GhostWriter)

Not Voting:

Xtoxm, Blazerunner

With 12 alive, it's 7 to lynch. 6 is a no lynch.

Deadline: March 9, 6PM EST

[Oman]

Whoa, BM super post.

Mod

: My ISP shit itself on me. I might be able to get on over the next few days, but maybe not.

[Elias_the_thief]

Thoughts on BM's thoughts:

1) Overdefensiveness is not a scumtell. Townies do not have survivor win conditions, its true, but its only instinct to try to prevent your own lynch. Defensiveness is a key part of my town play. Also, being very defensive is good town play, as one less townie candidate for lynch = that much more chance of scum being lynched.

2) NOWHERE did I say that posting frequently was a town tell in general. I said I was getting a town feel from him early on based on his high activity level. That doesnt mean that he can just post a lot the rest of the day and be town, and at a certain point overactivity seems fishy to me.

3) Post 148 is by no means similar to LLL. LLL was suggesting a random lynch. I was suggesting a random

wagon

. Random wagons are extremely good for town. They force players to actually take a stand, they garner information about the playrs reaction, and in general create discussion. Comparing random wagons to random lynches is really dumb, and I thought you were experiened enough to know the difference.

4) I am defending OMG adamantly because I've played with him twice before and seen lynched for weak reasons that were spurred on by bad reactions on his part. Both times he's been town.

[omg_im_innocent_wtf]

no answer?

oman - serious questions. how old are you? do you have any sort of mental disabilities? (this is not meant to offend at all, just so i know what i am dealing with here. simple 16/no would be all i need)

That's out of order. Mental disabilities?! This is a game. Don't start insulting people on a personal level. If you'd said that to me i'd have most probably requested replacement.

i was attacked on a personal level twice before making that post, and i just asked a question. i never said he actually had a disability. i was simply checking because like i said so far oman has done nothing in this game but post pointless crap and make personal attacks on me. i just wanted to make sure i didnt start defending myself to a 12 year old or someone actually incapable of discussion.

plus i was pretty drunk at that point so whatever.

[omg_im_innocent_wtf]

anyway, omans reaction did appear kind of angry townish.... so im gonna jump on FoO. like i said, im not happy with the speed of the GS wagon and i certainly know that im not scum.

so far he has been completely useless to the town, and is trying to get me lynched whilst acknowledging that he knows im a pro-town player.

Unvote, Vote FoO

[omg_im_innocent_wtf]

Also, BM, i stopped reading your post at:

His next post reeks of paranoia. Im not sure where he drew the conclusion that Elias suspected him of being scum, but his reaction leaves me completely bemused.

If you are not even going to bother to try to understand something that has been clarified about 6 times already im not going to go back over it with you. Its not my job to hold the hands and walk people through this game if they cant be bothered to put in any effort at all.

[omg_im_innocent_wtf]

Ok i tried a little more, but this is just frustrating to read how ridiculous that post is.

Post 50 is another false dilemma brought up by OMG. Its perhaps the most pathetically obvious mafia excuse I’ve ever seen. You think that, if we had 7 players, including 1 mafia and a cult recruiter, we would choose NOT to lynch the mafia member? Or perhaps more worryingly, you don’t seem to have quite got to grips with the fact that the Cult is an enemy of the town AS WELL AS the Mafia. Note how he aptly neglects to mention the possibility of him being a member of the former.

Please please just go use a dictionary yourself and find out what the words 'analogy' and 'hypothetical' mean. Please just put in 5 minutes of effort. If you still dont understand then by all means ask me and we can waste another 3 pages with me explaining it to you.

[omg_im_innocent_wtf]

I should probably address this tho:

In post 104 he again assumes that the mafia defo have a GF. Is this deliberately misleading the town, or is he revealing info? The latter seems more likely imo.

When I first read the original post (I dont play on this site much), I read it as: "Mafia PM's: then two mafia pms below". I was under the impression that as there were 2 mafia in the game, and 2 mafia pms listed, that those were the 2 pms that were sent out to mafia. I assumed from the OP that the role setup was 1 cultist, 1 mafia goon, 1 mafia godfather, and then an unknown amount of village power roles to enable those bad guys to claim easier. I also further assumed that if there was a godfather in the game then there must also be a cop, otherwise the godfather role would be useless. I mention this in my earlier posts.

I didnt realise my mistake until someone said later on that there was actually virtually no chance a godfather was in this game, and thus there was quite possibly no cop either. It was only then that I realised that they were just sample mafia pms, imo this was kind of unclear because the OP says 'Mafia PMs:', not 'Sample Mafia PMs' but whatever.

I didnt want to discuss this earlier, because I felt it would be really angleshooty and unfair to the real scum, as if i didnt know this then I am pretty much 100% town/cultist. I was quite happy to let it go and just play on without taking the unfair advantage of angleshooting.

However, as unbelievable as it is someone is actually reading this as a 'scumtell', I feel I should address it now. You forced my hand, I do apologise to the real scum but it was a simple misunderstanding.

[omg_im_innocent_wtf]

actually maybe im being a bit harsh.... it is just really frustrating for me when every post i make in my everyday language is not understood.

i again will promise to try to simplify things in future, and will try to explain what an analogy is now quickly so maybe you guys can understand my earlier posts a little better. Dictionary.com says an anology is "a form of reasoning in which one thing is inferred to be similar to another thing in a certain respect, on the basis of the known similarity between the things in other respects."

Ok lets say we are having a debate on whether or not downloading movies online illegally is morally ok. (Note: we are not actually having this debate, im merely using this as an example to show you how analogys are used.)

I could potentially make the argument, that 'Downloading movies is immoral and wrong'. (again, note that im not actually making this argument, it is just part of the example)

I could then use a hypothetical situation as an analogy. I could say that someone who downloads movies for free is similar to someone who steals a car. (Note: Again, I am NOT saying anyone here including myself downloads movies for free or steals cars)

What I am doing is showing that in general our society says stealing is wrong, and downloading movies illegally is technically stealing. Many people choose to accept one and not the other, and what the analogy does is say "Hey, why is this situation (dl movies) ok for you and this situation (stealing a car) not ok? They are both theft and thus analogous."

I hope you get it now, if not please let me know. I will be as patient as I possibly can. I cant think of a way to make this simpler right now.

To reiterate: I am not saying that I condone or support stealing movies/cars. I am not saying that anyone here has stolen cars/movies. I am simply using this conceptual tool to get people to reconsider what they believe and support my own argument.

[omg_im_innocent_wtf]

I will also simplify and summarise my posts in the game thus far, so anyone still not clear can understand. If you have trouble understanding my posts (which is my fault as much as anyone elses), then please just reference this post:

1. Early I suggested we should discuss strategy in the game.

2. Following this I suggested that discussing strategy in the game was more important than seeking scum.

3. I then suggested Reyo was being anti-town in his behaviour (I was unaware english was not reyos first language and have since retracted this stance).

4. I then moved to suggest that we pressure a lurker in lalaland.

5. Following this I suggested that there must be some scum on my wagon, and fosed Norinel+FoO (in particular FoO)

6. I then pointed out GSGold was lurking, had a scummy post (refusing to get off my wagon using craplogic, essentially trying to appear town, and cast my first serious vote on GSGold.

7. Everyone instantly agreed with me and we had a wagon on GSGold grow very fast. I believed that this was very suspicious as usually lynching scum has more traction, and thus moved to other targets of Oman + FoO, who have both been basically useless and anti-town in their behaviours thus far.

8. I found Oman's reaction to my vote on him fairly townish, so have now moved to FoO.

Do not reference any posts before this one if they do not fit with this post.

I am getting tired of wasting space explaining everything. So just look at this post for full explanations of all my actions thus far. Everything here is very black and white and I dont see how any of it could be misconstrued.

Again, I promise I will try to be clearer in future.

[Battle Mage]

Thoughts on BM's thoughts:

1) Overdefensiveness is not a scumtell. Townies do not have survivor win conditions, its true, but its only instinct to try to prevent your own lynch. Defensiveness is a key part of my town play. Also, being very defensive is good town play, as one less townie candidate for lynch = that much more chance of scum being lynched.

I disagree. In fact, overdefensiveness is a great scumtell because it so neatly excludes the majority of townies. Simply put, scum need to survive to win. Townies dont TO THE SAME EXTENT. Equally, townies tend not to be defensive to start with. A defensive townie is useless. We want aggressive townies who keep scum on their toes, and are constantly watching for slips. If a player is not scumhunting, and instead seems to be solely concerned with his own survival, he is probably scum.

2) NOWHERE did I say that posting frequently was a town tell in general. I said I was getting a town feel from him early on based on his high activity level. That doesnt mean that he can just post a lot the rest of the day and be town, and at a certain point overactivity seems fishy to me.

Ah ok. I guess you didnt make this last point clear. So posting alot at the start of the day, when little of value is being discussed is ok, but posting alot when the town gets into its stride is real fishy, right?

3) Post 148 is by no means similar to LLL. LLL was suggesting a random lynch. I was suggesting a random

wagon

. Random wagons are extremely good for town. They force players to actually take a stand, they garner information about the playrs reaction, and in general create discussion. Comparing random wagons to random lynches is really dumb, and I thought you were experiened enough to know the difference.

Ok ill concede this one, although tbh, i cant see what you are expecting to happen.

Elias: Lets start a random wagon
OMG: Lets wagon BM
Scum: Yep lets show ourselves to be BWing retards. lol

But on a serious note, yes i get what you're saying.

4) I am defending OMG adamantly because I've played with him twice before and seen lynched for weak reasons that were spurred on by bad reactions on his part. Both times he's been town.

link me to these games please.

BM

[XReyoX]

OK, I've isolated the stuffs that you've said against me so that I can adress them a little bit easier.

Page 4, and Xreyox appears to be taking up the Prolific Poster mantle from OMG.

Is that scummy?

Interesting that Xreyox questions CKD’s vote, and Blazerunner again undermines it.

What is CKD?

Don’t like Xreyox’s post 136. Seems like fabricated reasoning to attack Oman. Either that, or he has serious comprehension problems.

Could you explain how it looks facbricated?
The first half is me explaining why i think fakeclaiming is not beneficial and the second half is me misreading oman's post. He has explained it 3 posts below mine.

It worries me that in Post 153, XReyox looks like he wants to use LLL’s honesty as a reason to vote him…

Anyone who have played mafia would know that random lynch is almost the worst thing you can do. when lalaland suggested it, I assumed that she is completely new to the game. I really don't think player who has at least some experience would suggest that. Or are you saying you support the idea of random lynch?

Post 163 by Xreyox is shit-logic btw. Through and through.

Point it out for me please. ?

should note that I disagree with Xreyox’s assuation that a Doc is more useful than an RB. I’d say an RB > Doc but a Cop > RB in terms of ability to help the town catch scum.

It's just a different point of view. I only believe that Doc is more useful because his ability can only be beneficial to the town. On the other hand, roleblocker can prevent town power roles from performing their night actions as well. Assuming that the number of town power roles is usually higher than that of the mafia, the chance of a role blocker causing negative effects on the town is higher. I agree with you that in terms of finding scum, a roleblocker might be more useful in some case, but keeping the town alive is important as well.

His suggestion that a Mafia RB might be suspected is only true if the RB blocks a CLAIMED POWER ROLE, which is a false dilemma.

I did not say that its only true if the RB blocks a claimed power role. Why would a Town RB want block a claimed power role?

Xreyox makes little sense at the end of Page 8/start of Page 9.

OK

[Blazerunner]

First off, sorry to BM for saying he was lurking, I hadnt realized his reading about the game was gonna be that detailed. His result justifies the time he spent without posting

Now, I started reading the game again, checking BM and Dahen's comments on their re-reads, and I realized I dont know what WIFOM means, i didnt want to ask when the game started, thinking I would eventually understand, but I am still confused...

Looks to me like something about metagame, but I dont quite understand it, and I think it is critical to understand, so I can re-read the game better

[Pink Puppy]

The wiki has a good explanation ot it here: http://www.mafiascum.net/wiki/index.php?title=WIFOM

[Battle Mage]

OK, I've isolated the stuffs that you've said against me so that I can adress them a little bit easier.

Page 4, and Xreyox appears to be taking up the Prolific Poster mantle from OMG.

Is that scummy?

It isnt. But then i never said it was. lol

Interesting that Xreyox questions CKD’s vote, and Blazerunner again undermines it.

What is CKD?

CKD is what i call CuriousKarmaDog. Which is odd because he is the Mod. I guess i mustve made a mistake. It should be pretty apparent who i meant if u read back. The entire analysis is done in chronological order.

Don’t like Xreyox’s post 136. Seems like fabricated reasoning to attack Oman. Either that, or he has serious comprehension problems.

Could you explain how it looks facbricated?
The first half is me explaining why i think fakeclaiming is not beneficial and the second half is me misreading oman's post. He has explained it 3 posts below mine.

Correction. The first half is you trying to make Oman's suggested strategy seem scummy, when in fact it is not. The second half is you misrepresenting him further. I did say that it could just be that you didnt understand any of what Oman had said.

It worries me that in Post 153, XReyox looks like he wants to use LLL’s honesty as a reason to vote him…

Anyone who have played mafia would know that random lynch is almost the worst thing you can do. when lalaland suggested it, I assumed that she is completely new to the game. I really don't think player who has at least some experience would suggest that. Or are you saying you support the idea of random lynch?

Exactly. And someone with even the slightest amount of experience understands the concept of the 'newbie card'. LLL chose not to play it, and made himself look scummier, but in a way i felt was genuine.

Post 163 by Xreyox is shit-logic btw. Through and through.

Point it out for me please. ?

its post 163. If you really think any of it valid, repost it, and ill happily take it apart for you.

should note that I disagree with Xreyox’s assuation that a Doc is more useful than an RB. I’d say an RB > Doc but a Cop > RB in terms of ability to help the town catch scum.

It's just a different point of view. I only believe that Doc is more useful because his ability can only be beneficial to the town.

You've never played a game with multiple killing groups?

On the other hand, roleblocker can prevent town power roles from performing their night actions as well. Assuming that the number of town power roles is usually higher than that of the mafia, the chance of a role blocker causing negative effects on the town is higher.

But the advantage would be that the RB could be confirmed by the blocked power role, and so even a worst case scenario achieves some good.

His suggestion that a Mafia RB might be suspected is only true if the RB blocks a CLAIMED POWER ROLE, which is a false dilemma.

I did not say that its only true if the RB blocks a claimed power role. Why would a Town RB want block a claimed power role?

EXACTLY. If an UNCLAIMED, UNCONFIRMED power role gets blocked, it is quite possible that the RBer was still protown. Its only if the power role has claimed and is widely believed that you would have reason to suspect a Mafia RB.

Xreyox makes little sense at the end of Page 8/start of Page 9.

OK

ok.

BM

[Battle Mage]

First off, sorry to BM for saying he was lurking, I hadnt realized his reading about the game was gonna be that detailed. His result justifies the time he spent without posting

Now, I started reading the game again, checking BM and Dahen's comments on their re-reads, and I realized I dont know what WIFOM means, i didnt want to ask when the game started, thinking I would eventually understand, but I am still confused...

Looks to me like something about metagame, but I dont quite understand it, and I think it is critical to understand, so I can re-read the game better

gd thinking. WIFOM is nothing to do with metagame. Its kind of hard to explain. Id reccommend reading the wiki. Or alternatively, look in mafia discussion. MoS made a thread on it a little while back.

also @Xreyox- i forgot to add that commenting only on things that pertain to you is slightly scummy. Id at least reccommend reading the stuff relating to your main suspects. I can be as guilty of this as the next guy, but it'd be nice if u have time to respond to the rest.

BM

[Battle Mage]

Also, BM, i stopped reading your post at:

His next post reeks of paranoia. Im not sure where he drew the conclusion that Elias suspected him of being scum, but his reaction leaves me completely bemused.

If you are not even going to bother to try to understand something that has been clarified about 6 times already im not going to go back over it with you. Its not my job to hold the hands and walk people through this game if they cant be bothered to put in any effort at all.

Cut the crap with me kiddo. Firstly i read through the game chronologically, so when i wrote that, i hadnt read your numerous subsequent excuses. Secondly, they were all poor, and dont excuse your original behaviour in my mind.

Ill respond to some more of your posts when i can. Mod, if you could please fix the tags of my earlier post, thatd be great thanks

BM

fixed

[Pink Puppy]

3) Post 148 is by no means similar to LLL. LLL was suggesting a random lynch. I was suggesting a random

wagon

. Random wagons are extremely good for town. They force players to actually take a stand, they garner information about the playrs reaction, and in general create discussion. Comparing random wagons to random lynches is really dumb, and I thought you were experiened enough to know the difference.

Is random wagonning really an accepted practice? I'm still new, so maybe I'm wrong, but I think even early in a game you can pick on something small to start a bandwagon. It shouldn't be entirely random... ever. I mean, how will a random bandwagon tell you anything? It puts pressure on the person being bandwagonned, and you can get info about that person. But isn't the person apt to attack you for random bandwagonning? And how are you supposed to analyze anything about the bandwagonners? Any attack on their behavior can be explained away by "hey, guys, it was just random, I didn't mean anything by it." So it's not helpful in a lot of ways and only serves to confuse people. It gives scum a really good place to hide, I think.

Feel free to correct me if I am wrong!

BTW, I know I replaced LLL, but I would never agree to her suggestion of a random lynch. I think she was more saying that it's hard to be sure D1, and so it's a lot like a random lynch because you have less to go on than other days. I don't know if I'm right in my interpretation of her thoughts. Nor do I agree. Just wanted to make it clear that I disagree with what LLL said!

[Battle Mage]

^ i wholeheartedly endorse the above post.

[Battle Mage]

Ok i tried a little more, but this is just frustrating to read how ridiculous that post is.

Post 50 is another false dilemma brought up by OMG. Its perhaps the most pathetically obvious mafia excuse I’ve ever seen. You think that, if we had 7 players, including 1 mafia and a cult recruiter, we would choose NOT to lynch the mafia member? Or perhaps more worryingly, you don’t seem to have quite got to grips with the fact that the Cult is an enemy of the town AS WELL AS the Mafia. Note how he aptly neglects to mention the possibility of him being a member of the former.

Please please just go use a dictionary yourself and find out what the words 'analogy' and 'hypothetical' mean. Please just put in 5 minutes of effort. If you still dont understand then by all means ask me and we can waste another 3 pages with me explaining it to you.

lol. do me a favour and dont try and act patronising if CKD's been good enough to allow you to play this game. Your idea of a hypothetical analogy appears to be an ill-considered pro-scum argument in the history of MS. I think i'd get more sensible conversation out of a fruit salad. Srsly. -.-

BM