Cultafia: Game over

[vikingfan]

random vote tss

for being before me in the player list.

[vikingfan]

EBWODP: A bit is probably exaggerated. Lynching a recruit is good, but lynching recruits for days on end is not going to win the game.

Actually, I'd go with your initial statement. Even with just one cult recruiter, lynching a recruit puts the town one step closer to losing. (Cult loses one member at day; that night, cult gains one member and town loses one member due to recruitement; net result, town falls farther behind.) Vigging cult recruits isn't bad, but lynching a cult recruit is not a good thing until after any and all recruiters are dead.

And lynching someone just because they're "likely to be recruited" is even worse, since then the cult would just recruit someone else instead. In fact,

fos:Blazerunner

for that logic.

Claims are to be avoided whenever possible, but if you do have a town power role, it is a little better to claim then to be lynched, because then at least we have a chance to lynch the cult recruiter that day instead.

Cult games are always hard to balance, and while we don't know much about the setup yet, I tend to think the odds are against us here. If we mislynch today, and if we are dealing with 2 recruiters and a SK, we might theoretically be in a situation where the town is no longer in the majority on day 2. It seems like we've got basically no margin of error this game.

First off, what does EBWODP mean?

Second, lynching (or in the case of a nightkill) a recruit is not necessarily bad. Your case would only be true if everyone could be recruited. But given the fact that Norinel is an experienced mod leads me to believe that not as many town players will be recruitable as expected (otherwise the town would be essentially dead with a mislynch or two). Theoretically, your case is true, but in reality, I don't think our situation is QUITE as dire as you're portraying.

[vikingfan]

Second, lynching (or in the case of a nightkill) a recruit is not necessarily bad. Your case would only be true if everyone could be recruited. But given the fact that Norinel is an experienced mod leads me to believe that not as many town players will be recruitable as expected (otherwise the town would be essentially dead with a mislynch or two). Theoretically, your case is true, but in reality, I don't think our situation is QUITE as dire as you're portraying.

Oh, hopefully you're right about unrecruitable townies, but on the other hand, the setup also strongly implies the existance of more then one cult recruiter. If the cults average one recruitment a night between then, then lynching cult recruits is still pretty bad. Besides which, even if everyone who's recruitable is dead or recruited, if the cult leader is still alive then the cult is still a mafia-like group that can kill; without him, they're much less dangerous. So cult recruits are still pretty much cannon fodder, and lynching them still wouldn't be a good thing.

I think you've misunderstood the nature of the cult here. The cult group can only kill if the cult leader is dead- without him, they can kill. All I'm trying to say is that killing a recruit is still better than killing a member of the town. Cult recruits have their power in numbers, after all, so cutting that down is always a good thing. Is it as good as killing the cult leader? of course not. but still a good thing.

[vikingfan]

Vikingfan: Read the roles again. Cult can choose to kill or recruit each night, but only if the Leader is still alive. If the Leader is dead, they can't do anything.

Yep, you're right, just went back and reread. My bad.

[vikingfan]

First of all, no one should claim vanillia townie, at all, under ANY circumstances. If you're vanillia townie, then no matter what, DO NOT CLAIM ANYTHING. We were talking abotu what to do if power roles claim, which is a very different thing.

I agree with you- however, we may have the alarmist around to protect against recruits. So the cults will have to decide whether or not to go after the claimed person. Also, if they both go after the claimed person, the person will die and they lose a night of killing/recruiting.

Things are a LITTLE better than what's being portrayed. The real problem is if it's discovered either that we don't have an alarmist or the alarmist(s) dies. But the fact that one has to be accounted for helps the town, I think.

[vikingfan]

what on earth are you talking about, mnowax? what you said makes NO sense...seems like someone too eager to kill off blaze. explain, please.

[vikingfan]

armlx, the OP says that the SK is completely immune to investigations. Now, he could be insinuating that blazerunner is the cult leader (which would make mnowax a cop), but that doesn't explain the question about killing DGB.

[vikingfan]

that's good enough for me.

unvote vote blazerunner

.

[vikingfan]

hellooooooo...we've got way too many people lurking in a game this size. Still happy with my vote currently.

[vikingfan]

I like believing mnowax at the moment...if he's wrong, he's immediately on the chopping block tomorrow and rightfully so. and if he's right, we lynch a scum.

[vikingfan]

I like believing mnowax at the moment...if he's wrong, he's immediately on the chopping block tomorrow and rightfully so. and if he's right, we lynch a scum.

But...the thing I keep coming back to, the thing that no one seems to have answered yet, is, even if Mnowax is right and telling the truth, that would make Blaze either a vig or a SK, right? Would we really want to lynch a vig or a SK day 1 here?

If Blaze was a Vig I dont understand why he hasnt claimed that yet....

unvote

I am beginning to believe his claim though as there are a lot of "town" agreeing with him without really stating why..for example.

I like believing mnowax at the moment...if he's wrong, he's immediately on the chopping block tomorrow and rightfully so. and if he's right, we lynch a scum.

States he believes Mno, but no reason why. Then sets up a lynch chain...please viking, why couldnt this go the other way, lynch Mno and if he is town lynch Blaze? Something is not right here.

vote vikingfan.

please why do you believe Mno's claim?

Let me rephrase that. It's not so much that I believe him as that I think we have a likely scum either way. If he's lying and we lynch blaze today, we lynch wax tomorrow and nail a scum. If he's right, we've nailed a scum anyway.

As for whether or not it's wise to lynch an SK (what Yosarian is mentioning), that can go both ways. An SK can kill both town AND cult- it's not necessarily a given that he's working for the town, particularly if he kills one of the Steadfast roles. I'd be interested in seeing the math on this.

[vikingfan]

NN, two things. First, though there are no mafia in Cultafia, there are bad guys (i.e. scum). I don't see how using the phrase scum is bad when it's used to refer to the generic baddie.

Second, are you actively disagreeing that it is probable that one of mnowax or blaze is a baddie? From my viewpoint, it's extremely probable- the only question that I see being actively debated is whether to do it today or to do it day 3 or 4.

One final point: everyone says we should be spending time looking for the cult leaders. Personally, I'm wondering how the cult leader(s) would be playing this (presuming that neither mnowax nor blaze is one). would they be more likely to hold back and blend in the crowd, or go heavily after the group? I'm thinking blending in, for the moment...the cult leader wants to avoid suspicion at all costs, especially day 1.

[vikingfan]

I'm almost wondering if it's worthwhile to ask the SK to kill him for us...since we're agreed that for now, the SK is beneficial to the town so we can kill the bigger danger. Of course, the SK is under no obligation to do so.

I'm also wondering if Blaze is claiming this as a gambit to stay alive if he's really the cult leader and he wants everyone to think he's a cultist so we'll leave him alive longer. I am convinced though that Blaze is a bad guy, whether SK, cult leader, or cultist. I just can't see any protown player saying what he has- it's totally counter to both the game and the town winning.

For now, though, I'm going in a slightly different path. Before we end today (whenever that is), I'd like good effort from our lurkers. As NN has so eloquently reminded me, this is cultafia, not mafia. As such, lurkers hurt us even more than usual: A) this is the 'purest' day possible, since on future days, we may have new cultists among us. As such, it's imperative that we have everybody posting so that we can detect possible changes in play/behavior from one day to the next. B) we need content from everybody so that when a member of a cult is found, we can analyze their posts and interaction with others. Lurking, to me, is simply unacceptable this game. I'm going to start with

unvote vote penguinkat

but others that NN mentioned need to start stepping up too.

[vikingfan]

and yet stark has yet to post in this game

major fos

.

Something to consider about not lynching blaze is that if we lynch him, we almost certainly nail a cultist/cult leader (I don't see him as SK) without revealing anybody else's alignment (with the possible exception of mnowax). If we go after somebody else, we open ourselves up to the possibility of lynching town (which would be bad, especially if we found a steadfast role, since the SK would obviously kill it). So the question is whether we are better off killing somebody who is probably a recruit but not the leader or whether we go the more risky way and somebody else who may be a leader but also may be town.

[vikingfan]

Yosarian, you're right...I was incorrectly assuming that any claim could quite possibly be a grounds for culting/murder, but that's not necessarily true, at least in the case of the SK.

Vollkan, here's my perspective (and this was before the mod posted that he was having technical difficulties). When the mod says that a player has been picking up his prods, but yet not posting, that appears scummy to me since it says that he has been available to post but yet does not want to do so. If the mod hadn't said that, I would have simply considered it grounds for replacement.

Occult's post is why I was thinking more and more that blaze just might be a cult leader, not a recruit...the only way the two claims can jibe is if blaze is a cult leader. I don't see option 2 as being possible, since that would not explain Blaze's actions. So it's either 1 or 3 for me. I'd like to hear from mnowax now. Oh, and

unvote penguin

since she's back now.

[vikingfan]

Mnowax, if blaze is cult leader or SK, you won't finish him tonight because the first nightkill is immune. So you saying what you did doesn't help us at all (except insofar as we know that blaze is bad). Oh, and Yos, that was exactly my line of thinking regarding stark, although under no conditions do I want a lynch before everyone's given their thoughts.

At this point, I think it's worthwhile to consider what blaze really is- given his play, I'm thinking he might just possibly be a cult leader trying to keep himself alive longer under the 'keep recruits alive longer' line of thinking. What do you guys think?

[vikingfan]

No, I simply want to consider what blaze is mostly likely to be NOW given what mnowax has just told us.

[vikingfan]

Vollkan, here's my perspective (and this was before the mod posted that he was having technical difficulties). When the mod says that a player has been picking up his prods, but yet not posting, that appears scummy to me since it says that he has been available to post but yet does not want to do so. If the mod hadn't said that, I would have simply considered it grounds for replacement.

Okay, but I have myself been in situations where I have not wanted to post as town, purely because my ideas are not solid and I don't want to make a crappy post that draws suspicion. Reading to the point of being able to post takes time, and it's reasonable that someone might not post.
[/quote]

To the point where they don't post AT ALL? that just seems more scummy than townish to me. Not even any thoughts on the game at all to this point...it certainly seems to merit the FOS that I gave.

And agreed 100% with Yos.

[vikingfan]

mnowax, there is always the possibility of an alarmist protecting you from recruitment- according to the OP, an alarmist may exist. So don't cross off the potential fact of you being alive tomorrow.

[vikingfan]

Stark, at the time, the mod had not MENTIONED that you had computer issues, thus I was thinking that you were deliberately lurking. That's why I kept bringing you up.

V/LA tomorrow through late Sunday night.

I really don't understand either blaze or mno's play to this point.

[vikingfan]

back from my V/LA. I don't like what spring is saying at all and find her desire to get more claims scummy. This is exactly what a cult would want and exactly what the town wants to avoid.

vote spring

.

[vikingfan]

PAge 3
56: vikingfan encourages targetting recruits. Pushes a "not many town can be recruited" theory, which is either a massive breadcrumb (which means he's one of only a few roles OR a cult recruitor) and tries to dismiss the risk we may be in. You shouldn't dismiss risk unless you know that it is not possible or don't want others tot hink it's possible.

Sidenote: Much like in VEngeful, the recruits are probably going to play like Goons to keep the Godfather (cult recruitor) safe. Inasmuch, the Cult Recruiter will probably (if town catches on to that) act like a recruit or like a townie.
vikingfan's 61 is... nonsensical. Intentionally so? I'm glad I am voting him, he is cult.
vikingfan AGAIN pushing the pro-cult agenda. "We may have the alarmist, don't worrrrrrry about it...."
but now Viking is defending blaze too. AARRGGH! Cults stick together, I guess.
vikingfan being scummy again...

viking being MORE scummy... seriously... he needs to die

CKD, would you care to explain WHY you wish you had two votes, rather than just quoting me and sayijng that? It gives me nothing to respond to.

Skruffs, as to your first point, I was taking the view that doing the recruit is preferable in only one regard- we don't risk exposing the other valuable roles. Do we want to kill the CL? of course, and we do that by attacking and trying to see what they would be most likely to do.

you say repeatedly that I'm being scummy without giving explanations. Furthermore, you list the many people who are cult, but forgetting the fact that so far, only one recruitment can possible have been made. Thus, your point that all of us supposed cultists are sticking together falls to the ground, and it actually repudiates your point since not all of us can be part of the same cult, which actually leads to the thought that we are thinking correctly.

As to your first paragraph, I say that because Norinel is an experienced mod and usually tries to create a balanced game for all sides.

[vikingfan]

TSS: post 382, the post, as I read it, linked 4 people all together, which I read as assuming that they were all together, especially since comments were made about how the cultists were sticking together. I'm not seeing how it's 'clear' to you that they were all allied against the town. Especially since Skruffs said that more than one of us was defending and that we were sticking together. What am I missing?

CKD, there are several things that make me suspicious of SL: A) general lurking early on until called on to post and B) questioning the whole claiming strategy (which I agree with Yos on). So I'm content to leave my vote right where it is.

[vikingfan]

but how can that be so, TSS? The cults doesn't know who each other are any more than the town does. I don't see how his comment holds water.