Cultafia: Game over

[springlullaby]

vote mnowax

Me too vote.

And the nibbler avatars are mighty annoying and confusing.

[springlullaby]

Unvote

Can cult leaders kill and recruit on the same night?

[springlullaby]

Also, Blaze, what do you think of mnowax?

[springlullaby]

I'd like to hear from mnowax before taking a decision as well.

[springlullaby]

I'm for a Blaze lynch. If his last post is genuine, then there is no reason to keep him alive as he will use his ability to work against town.

If his last post is not genuine, then he must be disassembling to hide something even worst because he could have ridden the day out on the basis of being a suspected SK.

Blaze, why should we keep a scum roleblocker alive?

[springlullaby]

Some crazy idea, just came to my mind, and I thoguht could be fun, and perhaps usefull.

If my ally and helpful enemies got the message, and if perhaps my dangerous enemies get puzzled tying to figure out my mess, It is not as bad. Worse could happen is I die before day 2, witch I think would happen anyway.

But perhaps I

am

doing something plain dumb, and should have resisted to boredom and "fear of the night". If that turns out to be the case, too bad

What? You're making less and less sense. Are you saying here that your last post was made up bullshit?

[springlullaby]

There is no such thing as a Cult Roleblocker

You have been recruited by the [cultname] Cult, led by [name] and also composed of [names]. You may communicate with the rest of the cult at night.

You lose all other abilities you previously had

, except that if you were a Mason, you can still talk to your fellow Masons at night.

You win when your cult cannot be eradicated, or such a situation is inevitable.

Mm, missed that. Thank you.

[springlullaby]

Vollkan's Ground Rules

1)

I use a % system to rank people.

• a: 0% means someone's behaviour is absolute confirmed town. 100% means someone's behaviour is absolute confirmed scum.
  b: The rankings refer to behaviour unless otherwise stated. Someone that has claimed cop may still get a rating of 60% if their play has been worth 60%. I may also give them a probability ranking that factors in their claim.
  c: Everybody starts at 50%.
  d: Someone who has neither a preponderance of scumtells or towntells will receive 50%.
  e: Any unreadable lurker will receive 50%
  f: It is rare for me to give people a ranking below 50% (see section 2) below)

2)

I am exceptionally skeptical of "town tells". Recent experience in House Mafia has exacerbated this.

3)

Any player who justifies a vote/FoS/declaration of 'suspicion'/etc. on one of the following:

• a) 'Hunch';
  b) 'Gut';
  c) 'Feeling';
  d) 'Belief'; or
  e) Anything that has a meaning similar to those of the above

will receive a stern demand from me that they give objective reasons for their vote/FoS/declaration of 'suspicion'/etc. Should they fail to do so, my expectation is that the vote/FoS/declaration of 'suspicion'/etc. will be dropped. If not, then they can expect their % ranking to increase.

4)

If you want to play in a chaotic fashion, that's fine. However, if I can't understand what you are doing I will demand an explanation and justification. If you don't provide me with one, your % ranking

will

increase.

5)

Any person who accuses another person of being scum for one of the following:

• a) Over-reaction;
  b) Lurking;
  c) Aggression;
  d) Bandwagoning (see section 6) below);

Can expect their % ranking to increase.

6)

Bandwagoning is not a scumtell. Voting with crap reasons is a scumtell. I don't give a toss how many times you vote, but I care very deeply about your reasons for doing so.

7)

I hate lurkers. If you do not post within a reasonable timeframe, I will bombard you with questions and, very likely, demand you provide a full scumdar with at least 2 sentences per person. If you choose not to do so, I will expect that you desist from posting and be replaced.

8)

Reliance on conspiracy arguments, such as "I think X is scummy because he did Y which could help scum because Z" (keyword = "could") will merit a % increase.

9)

If I make a mistake somewhere I will point out that I have made tremendous cock-ups as town in a number of games. If you choose to ignore these meta-references, your % ranking will rise.

10)

If you are finding the game too 'difficult' or 'complex' either read up or replace out.

11)

My posts will be as long as I feel like making them.

Unvote, Vote: Volkan

If you are town, you have nothing to gain from such a post.

[springlullaby]

Fos Springlullaby

for being anxious about a procedural way to find scum.

1. 'Procedural way to find scum', really? What I see is a 'how to avoid my suspicion if you are scum' guide and a series of preemptive self-justifications.

2. Tell me how is it beneficial to town to reveal said 'procedural way to find scum' in advance if one does indeed abide by it?

Volkan, I think your justification is poor; surely not ruining a game by theory debates is up to the player's attitude and has little to do with the player's belief.

[springlullaby]

Yosarian, I'm not getting why claiming is bad, please re-explain it for me.

[springlullaby]

I'm liking Skruffs suspicions.

[springlullaby]

I'm liking skruffs' suspicions because the plan for not claiming didn't make any sense to begin with. Of course town should be cautious about claiming because the nature of the game, but if one is gonna be lynched anyway, a last attempt to put town off a wrong tract is only sensible, which isn't to say that town is under any obligation to believe a claim. (armlx, yosarian)

And then there is Yosarian's reaction to mnowax claim, he reacted as if he knew him to be truthful, while in fact the fact that he claimed with hardly any vote on him make me find it suspicious.

And then there is his response to me when I asked him to explain why claiming is bad, he says that in that case it wasn't really so bad after all 1) still no suspicion on that claim 2)either he didn't think it through or it is backpedalling.

Then there is the idea that lynching recruit is bad. That doesn't make sense either. Of course lynching cult leader is best, but lynching recruit is not so bad if there isn't a better alternative. Because number in cults count and will I think ultimately come back to bite town in the arse if cultees are left to thrive in plain sight. A claimed cultee may be an identified danger, but town has no control over their votes. The solution is of course do deal every case on a case by case basis.

Right now I'm inclined to let Blaze go to night, because we have a claimed vig.

I haven't changed my vote because I need to reread.

[springlullaby]

Unvote, Vote: Yosarian2

I didn't like his reaction to mnowax' claim, I'm liking his casual dismissal to my comment even less.

FoS: armlx

armlx, I'm in R-1000 with you, in which I've been lurking far more than in this one. I think the fact that you choose to use the lurking argument to vote for me (and to convince people to vote for me) while in R-1000 you never as much as mentioned it is interesting.

Your reasoning about how cult leader would play is also full of BS and WIFOM.

If I were a cult leader, I would want to play in the most town-like manner possible, so as to leave no possible angle of attack for as long as possible.

Both are plausible, so you see, my behavior can be only be said to be scummy in general.

The fact that want to imply that I'm a cult leader when my play can't possibly tell you that makes me find you very scummy indeed.

I'd like wagon on Yosarian2 and armlx, they have voiced both crap theories about not claiming and stuff. I want to see how they handle it themselves.

[springlullaby]

Your reasoning about how cult leader would play is also full of BS and WIFOM.

If I were a cult leader, I would want to play in the most town-like manner possible, so as to leave no possible angle of attack for as long as possible.

There's something deliciously ironic about you criticising people for speculating about how CLs would play, and then pulling an "If I were a cult leader".

@Skruffs: HOLY CRAP! That post is enormous. I'll wait until you finish your read before commenting and/or starting an argument.

Your reasoning about how cult leader would play is also full of BS and WIFOM.

If I were a cult leader, I would want to play in the most town-like manner possible, so as to leave no possible angle of attack for as long as possible.

Both are plausible

, so you see, my behavior can be only be said to be scummy in general.

The fact that want to imply that I'm a cult leader when my play can't possibly tell you that makes me find you very scummy indeed.

Please don't arbitrarily cut my quote.

Also, when I say 'my behavior can be only said to be scummy in general' it is intended to mean that anyone's behavior can be only said to be scummy in general for the reason invoked in the present case.

[springlullaby]

Everyone who think I am a cult leader, please state clearly why now.

[springlullaby]

If you care to examine my last post, I answered to your points already even if it wasn't addressed at you Yosarian2. But I shall answer again since you insist that not directly replying to you is scummy. I'll just wait for the answers of everyone my query apply to first.

[springlullaby]

I think Yosarian2 made good points and don't see crap in his logic. The fact that your defense is a general remark about it being crap and a crap answer about every scum player plays alike I don't think I have seen a good enough answer to convince me Yosarian2 is wrong.

Could you answer this hypothetical question? I want to check if I understand your point correctly.

Would you play differently in a game where you are Godfather and in a game where you are just a goon? Would it be good or bad for a mafia-team if goon played differently?
What if that Godfather can kill one more player than a mafia without godfather, would that make a difference?

Just to clarify, do you think that Yosarian proposed idea for town to never claim is a good idea? You realize that that idea was what I called crap upon, right?

And what do you think Yosarian is 'right' about? I pointed out that the argument armlx used, and which Yosarian echoed later, to persuade town that I was

a cult leader

was WIFOM and as such an invalid one to be convinced that I was a cult leader, and that using this argument was scummy in itself. How do you expect me to defend from a WIFOM argument in the first place?

Beside I did not at any time play to stay unnoticed, and I believe that if you care to examine my play, you'll reach that conclusion as well.

As for you question, I don't see how it relates in any way to the current game, but I can answer you with this: WIFOM is WIFOM for a reason.

I'd like Nabokov amongst other to answer my query.

[springlullaby]

Just to clarify, do you think that Yosarian proposed idea for town

to never claim

is a good idea? You realize that that idea was what I called crap upon, right?

Well, pro-town roles claiming

without a bloody good reason

for it is almost always bad for us in this game; they'll probably either get recruited or killed. I'm not sure why you disagree with that.

Are you deliberately misreading me?

I never said 'town claiming without a bloody good reason' was a good idea. In fact, I argued against it when I said that your reaction to mnowax claim didn't feel right to me. Wouldn't you say that it is quite queer for someone who cried so loudly that town shouldn't claim to not express any concern over the fact that mnowax claimed under very little pressure?

I'm liking skruffs' suspicions because the plan for not claiming didn't make any sense to begin with. Of course town should be cautious about claiming because the nature of the game, but if one is gonna be lynched anyway, a last attempt to put town off a wrong tract is only sensible, which isn't to say that town is under any obligation to believe a claim.

Tell me, do you disagree with what I quoted?

Then there is this little treasure of nonsense from armlx.

Yosarian, I'm not getting why claiming is bad, please re-explain it for me.

Because those that claim pro-town recruitable roles, especially power roles that don't harm the SK such as the cop, create massive WIFOMs

as instead of dying and being death confirmed, they can become scum.

Non-recruitable roles claiming simply lowers the target pool for the cult(s) to hit recruitables.

I'm pretty sure death via lynch is still < potential cult recruitment, but claiming outside of that scenario is not helping the town.

Assuming that blues would only claim under direct threat of being lynched, tell me Yosarian, do you agree with this as well?

Note here that I addressed the question to you specifically, and that you did not object to what armlx said.

As for the WIFOM, I suppose arguing against WIFOM with WIFOM wasn't a good idea, but there is little one can say against "you lurk, it is what a cult leader would do, lynch".

Moreover, what I pointed out was that the particular WIFOM armlx used was a very weak one because saying that my saying that 'cult leaders would want to appears as pro-town as possible' is equivalently plausible.

Now let's examine armlx reason to vote me.

1)Opposition to methodical scum hunting methods, 2)lurking, 3)OMGUSing those who attack you for this.

I took the liberty of numerating your reasons.
1)BS, I have nothing against "methodical scum hunting methods". Please, read the posts in which I questioned volkan on why he felt he need to post that little list of his .
2) See above. Plus, I personally consider lurking as a null tell, which will be proven true in this case.
3) See Yosarian's post about OMGUS. You also imply that I OMGUS'ed several persons who attacked me; evidences please.

In conclusion, you guys are wasting your votes on me. Beside, the case against me is poor: all that it is objectively based upon is the assumption that I would lurk if I were cult leader.

I think Yosarian and armlx show up as linked thorough the day, armlx is in fact the scummiest of the two, but armlx' way of following Yosarian like a puppy and Yosarian not bothering to address his questionable posts makes me think Yosarian is possibly a cult leader with armlx as a cultee.

[springlullaby]

Yosarian, I'm not getting why claiming is bad, please re-explain it for me.

Because those that claim pro-town recruitable roles, especially power roles that don't harm the SK such as the cop, create massive WIFOMs as instead of dying and being death confirmed, they can become scum. Non-recruitable roles claiming simply lowers the target pool for the cult(s) to hit recruitables.

I'm pretty sure death via lynch is still < potential cult recruitment, but claiming outside of that scenario is not helping the town.

I took this post as meaning "death via lynch is

less bad

than potential cult recruitment".

On second thought, maybe it was me who misinterpreted that sentence. The confusion was further encouraged by the fact that neither Yosarian nor armlx bothered to point out that they did not disagree with me after I posted my thoughts on the subject.

I could argue endlessly about WIFOM but I'll refrain from it, I'll just say one more time that what I pointed out was that the

particular

argument armlx used was a good one.

Still, I'm not sure about Yosarian anymore because most of my assumption were based on the fact that Yosarian didn't correct armlx when he answered in his place.

And your argument abotu me an Armlx is silly. "X and Y agree on some stuff, therefore they're probably scum together" is an inherently bad argument, at least until you know the alignment of one of those two people. I tend to think that the most likely explination is that Armlx agrees with me on some stuff because I'm making sense, because you're not, and because you just look scummy, which is the same reason that lots of other people seem to agree with me on the same things.

This is false, my argument was based on the assumption that armlx and you were mutually agreeing on something that did not make sense. But as I've said maybe I was the one who misinterpreted.

Unvote

For what it's worth, I still think armlx is quite scummy; independently from the validity of my case against her, the arguments she used against me are weak.

Anyway, giving that 1) I don't think this day was wasted 2) I would need to reread the entire game with new eyes to be of further utility today and I'm not up to it, I'll just claim nothing.

Your call town.

[springlullaby]

Hullo, I'm back.

Need to catch up, please try to not get me lynched before I get a chance.

Also, OMG skruff, I puzzled for a good 5 minutes trying to figure out the meaning of the quote in your avatar, before noticing that it just spells

phier

ch

e

tiger

in greek letters.

[springlullaby]

Hi, sorry, been busy.

First, mnowax, what's up with the big red X?

Second, where does the TSS is an SK talk comes from?

Now, I think Skruff's full fledged 'I'm defending my honor' post is definitively off. Only, why do you guys who have been needling at him extensively haven't voted him?

Also, what struck me at the end of D1, when I realized that I had possibly misinterpreted stuff, were the people 'on my side'. Skruff kinda counts in that category. So does aioqwe, I'd like him to explain this:

The more this continues the more inclined I am to believe armlx/yos. Personally I wouldn't call it mindless puppy following. That's more like people who just pop in to post QFT! or whatever.

beep beep, if you say that armlx is not scum, what do you think of what she's been saying about me/my predecessor?

Vote: skruff

[springlullaby]

Skruff, explain how my vote can be considered to be 'out of the blue' or even 'sudden' first because I think you are not making any kind of sense there.


And then please consider commenting on the reasons I voted you.

Someone else insinuated I Was defending my honor, not me. My post was reflecting on that suggestion and seeing if it held any truth.

Mmh, I didn't say that you said you were 'defending your honor', using these words verbatim, I was referring to this:

I do'nt know if that was in this game though, because in basically all of my games I have simultaneously had people use a basic "Skruffs makes no sense" default argument against anything I say - I even changed my location to reflect that, a week or two. I do'nt know why, because I *am* earnestly doing my best in all of my games, and yet it seems that word is getting around that a quick and easy way to discredit me is just to say I don't make sense.

Sounds like a defense of your honor to me. Tell me, what else did you intent to achieve with a rant like that? Exactly how is it game relevant anyway?

And you are pinging my scumdar again with your last vague meta arguments.

Do you really think that my having not answered you quickly enough despite having made two posts in other games since is really indicative of anyhting? Fyi, being still busy atm, I'm prioritizing. And if you had cared to check thoroughly you would have also noticed that there are other games I'm in that I haven't even had time to read yet since being very busy last week.

Surely, if you were genuine, you would have wanted to be more thorough in any meta analysis before bringing it up for the purpose of implying that another player is deliberately avoiding to answer your questions and therefore being scummy?

Then again, seeing how, contrarily to what you are saying, I have never played a game with you as town before - actually I don't think I ever played in any game with you beside this one period (not that I think the 'the only good meta on me blabla' stuff is any kind of good argument to begin with; btw, noting here the irony of the fact that I was agreeing with you D1) - I'm thinking you are very likely not genuine at all.


Btw, I totally endorse my predecessor's 'not my faction' comment. English is not my first language either but if I'm not mistaken, in english, ' X is not town, and not my faction' means pretty much the same as 'X is not town, and therefore not my faction' depending on the context. I don't see how you can not know that because my english is not even that good, which is kinda scummy in itself. The rest of your read on that post is lost on me.

Have other comments not on Skruffs but I'm seeing in the preview window that new posts have been made. Will read those first.

[springlullaby]

Skruffs, you are not making sense to me anymore.

1) I did not FoS you for meta I did not do (whatever that means), I said your using

vague AND false

meta arguments is scummy.

2)You didn't explain how my vote on you could be considered 'out of the blue', this is scummy because I think you pulled that accusation out of your hat to begin with.

3) Your repeated 'look I'm town because when I'm scum, I'm so and so, but I'm not so here, so see I'm town, town, town, town' is plain grating on my nerves and scream scum.

I'm not getting the case on Slysly, I have town read on him.

Too much words, not enough voting.

[springlullaby]

Also, can you prove that the meta I used was false, or is it your opinion that it is false?

The only good meta on me is that townie players who play with me for the first time always misconstrue me as scum, and scum players (especially those who have played with me before) always try to capitalize on it.

That said, I sense a growing, condensing cloud of anti-skruffs sentiment, and SL has abanbdoned posting in the game, apparently, since I Asked her to explain why she voted me out of the blue and that was a day or two ago. Now she posted in two other games since then (on tuesday) but has avoided or forgotten about this one.

SL has played in games with me before; so I'm more curious about it than anything else.

She's picked up on armlx vollkan and yosarian's goadings and was trying to be the first on the wagon. Anyways, paranoia aside, let's look at the rest of this..

The bolded and underlined part is false. To prove that this point is false: point me to one game I've played with you before. The bolded part shows how you used that false meta as an (flimsy) argument to imply that I was worthy of suspicion.

I already said that once before, why do you keep missing it? Are you really reading?

Then again, seeing how, contrarily to what you are saying, I have never played a game with you as town before - actually I don't think I ever played in any game with you beside this one period (not that I think the 'the only good meta on me blabla' stuff is any kind of good argument to begin with; btw, noting here the irony of the fact that I was agreeing with you D1) - I'm thinking you are very likely not genuine at all.

3) How repeated is it? How many times have I offered that argument up vs how many times have other people brought it up and I have replied to it?

[/quote]

I do'nt know if that was in this game though, because in basically all of my games I have simultaneously had people use a basic "Skruffs makes no sense" default argument against anything I say - I even changed my location to reflect that, a week or two. I do'nt know why, because I *am* earnestly doing my best in all of my games, and yet it seems that word is getting around that a quick and easy way to discredit me is just to say I don't make sense.

Beep! Beep! - It's just business as usual.Me vs da woild. It's a cult game, I was hoping to replace in as a cult recruitor, I wound up not. My personality is going to scare away any hopes of being recruited, so I expect to be SK'd, Vig'd, or microwaved tonight or tomorrow night.

To concede you a point, the volume of these is actually minor compared to the overhale volume of your post. Still, stuff like that just ring scum to me, especially the last '*Believe me*, I wanted to be scum but am not' thing.

[/quote]

[springlullaby]

Armlx, why are you so insistent to out me as a vig? If I were one, wouldn't you say that it's not smart of you?

Also I already asked, where the TSS is an SK talk comes from? Do you think he is an SK with the same certainty that you seem to think I'm a vig?

aioqwe, now that you are back, please answer the question I adressed to you.

[springlullaby]

Skruffs, mind reacting to my post?

aioqwe, ok, I read that line wrong.

[springlullaby]

I'm not liking the dynamics in this game, it feels sluggish and out of focus.

People who are not voting, vote. Bad decision is better than no decision.

[springlullaby]

Beep beep, if CKD is scum why aren't you voting him? Yos, why are you voting CKD all of sudden?

Skruffs, yes claim.

[springlullaby]

I'm starting to think that all these speculations on roles and night actions are scummy because town can have absolutley zero PoV on it.

[springlullaby]

Because they don't know who are talking from a position of knowledge before equivalently valid hypotheses.

[springlullaby]

Unvote, vote: volkan

I'm not liking the wagon I'm on anymore, especially since after mnowax vote.

[springlullaby]

Unvote, vote: volkan

[springlullaby]

Well, that's that.