Realistic Mafia - Game Over

[NabakovNabakov]

Huh. The two players under ABR in the playerlist

just happened

to die. This is all the proof we need.

Vote: Albert B. Rampage

[NabakovNabakov]

Post signing argument sounds distancy and blows signal-noise ratio to hell.

[NabakovNabakov]

Not liking Surye's play at all. His ideas of helping the town feel very mechanical, treating information like a quota.

Unvote: Vote Surye

Also, Muffinhead's plan is stupid for the reasons already given and the fact that night might not be as harmful to the town as it might seem. It's the responsibility of every townie to use their ???? action creatively. That doesn't mean go out and be a superhero, but think about ways that an average person could help the scumhunt, and generally try to test the limits of your power (as long as you don't put yourself in iminent danger doing so)

[NabakovNabakov]

Not liking Surye's play at all. His ideas of helping the town feel very mechanical, treating information like a quota.

Unvote: Vote Surye

He is the one person actually fighting Primate's "superiority". Primate is definently the best player here(except for me of course), but that doesn't mean he is the key to winning. I don't see how saying: " Hey guys, we need more information then 'Superfly is bad'" is treating information like a quota? Is wanting some treating it like a quota.

FoS:Nabakov

Surye isn't contesting Primate at all. He was completely open to a superfly lynch, but only after we had gathered sufficient information.

And here's what bugs me about that thinking. We need information before lynches to

figure out who to lynch

. Information is a tool. The way Suyre is framing it, we just need to have a certain amount of information before we lynch somebody, but the decision would (presumably) not change. He claims information is necessary but he shows no signs of actually wanting to use it. Scummy.

[NabakovNabakov]

Once we set [some pre-lynch information] up, a lynch would be town benificial as far as I see, and Superfly is as good as anyone at this point.

This is advocating an near-arbitrary lynch after we've filled our information quota. You leave no room for the information we gather to clear Superfly. It has nothing to do with solidification and everything to do with justification.

[NabakovNabakov]

Funny Primate....where's your tag ? I don't see paragon of mafia hunters under your name. Or any tag at all. Or a title. Or any mention of you at all.

Maybe -just maybe- you aren't as good as you proclaim. I might be wrong, and if so, I'd like you to go toe-to-toe with Nabakov and tell me what you think of him.

I'm not your paladin. I'm just a player.

What do you think of Surye?

[NabakovNabakov]

Could you explain why you think Surye deserves a confirmed vote in a bit more detail?

Every post he makes STINKS of scum trying too hard to look like they are contributing and scumhunting.

Primate, with me!

BM

No, every post has been trying to defend my suspicious of Primate from a small group who want to support his campaign of blind following.

I happen to think the Superfly wagon is quite silly, but that doesn't make my think you're any less scummy. In fact, I jumped on you only after you showed a willingness to join it. The problem there, however, wasn't that you were considering a stupid wagon, it was that you were being a hypocrite by doing so.

[NabakovNabakov]

That said, a Superfly lynch may not be bad at all, and if he doesn't post by 2:00PM PST today, I actually may throw a vote on him.

Timelimits on votes are incredibly scummy, they dampen responsibility. Now, you didn't vote by your deadline, but I'm guessiong that's only because you got chewed out on it.

[NabakovNabakov]

Superfly has nothing to do with super or flies. It is the name of a character from Daikatana, the fabled game of John Romero The game itself is so bad that it is good. Full of bugs and bad quality, but hilarious because of it. It is like watching an episode of the power rangers and outright laughing at the cheap plastic suits and lame cgi effects.

That's actually why I'm voting you.

Is that it?

[NabakovNabakov]

Lot's of happenings a-goin' on.

I would like to tenatively confirm Suyre's claim. Ghostwriter and I were both at my house (he visited me). It was my idea to check internet news outlets to see if I could glean any more information that could be helpful, so I'm not exactly sure where the the illegal comes from (the cop who did that investigation might want to check their sanity). I can't honestly think of any other way Suyre could have gotten this information so

Unvote

[NabakovNabakov]

Here's some food for thought.

If BM is indeed a Vig and information comes out that ABR has a truckload of guns, why does BM-Vig immediately assume ABR is a Vig? I'd like a solid claim out of BM.

[NabakovNabakov]

Just thought of something, the N0 NK's revealed alignment, why should lynches be any different?

Being able to have multiple lynches in a day is pretty rare on this site, and the closest approxmiation we have is Lights out where the town can lynch as many people as it wants, but no allignments are revealed until the town votes for "lights out".

[NabakovNabakov]

So much for law and order.

Not to ruin everybody's fun, but I would urge pesimissm when it comes to more ambitious ??? actions. If a couple of creative townies find a strategy to blow the game wide open, chances are the mod will close it up again. That doesn't mean don't try, just don't hope.

A couple of comments:

Where did all this trust of DGB come from all of a sudden?

Why is a good idea to give

everybody

a gun? It already seems that most cop investigations are based on possesions and actions, not basic allignment reveals. Our entire police force becomes useless once every townie and his mother is packing heat. Additionally, it flies against flavor that the scum have been restricted to one nightkill so far, but that might end once the entire population is armed and we could be facing 5 or 6 kills a night without counting overzealous townies.

"Corrupt" is different from "Insane". Cops revealed to be liars will not become useful, they will become desperate and dangerous.

I really think the gun supply should be controlled somehow, but I'm apprehensive to start a stockpile or destruction program because so few people can be trusted.

[NabakovNabakov]

As a semi-confirmed innocent, I volunteer to investigate Cyberbob's house (that's what this is about, right?)

[NabakovNabakov]

There's already a PM sitting in K-scope's inbox in which I go alone, unarmed to Cyberbob's house and investigate. You guys are free to not trust my results or to go yourselves, but I'm really uncomfortable with the mayor going anywhere where he can be killed out of sight (one of our top priorities should be making sure he's safe at night too)

Wish me luck.

[NabakovNabakov]

Nab, you acted without the town, on a very critical point. Together with your GW association, and armlx's campaign to clear your names on false logic, I am very suspicious of you three.

I may be off, but I am suspicious. And as such, please, tell us what you find, but now we have a huge grain of salt to take it with.

So Albert is free to walk to BM's house, get a truckload of guns and form his own militia, but I'm suddenly suspicious because I stayed home last night, confirmed your claim, and am conducting an orderly search of Bob's house?

Seeing as K-scope hasn't picked up my action, anybody is free to go with me in real gametime. I'l even add an addendum saying that I'm open to hanger's on.

[NabakovNabakov]

I just ask that they aren't armed.

[NabakovNabakov]

Ok, we've processed the investigation results, and the result was a Cyberbob lynch. Let's stow that away and get down to real mafia. Not knowing Bob's allignment doesn't stop us from lynching scummy players.

I've noticed that Primate dissapeared completely after the hard info came out.

[NabakovNabakov]

It would seem to me that response PM's would be able to clear this up. If Primate and BM both targeted Sarc, one of them must have gotten something along the lines of "You go to where you expect Sarc to be but he's already dead". At this point I would be tempted to trust Primate. BM had guns; Sarc was murdered with a knife.

Cebloki: Don't tell us not to play Mafia. As far as I'm concerned, the investigation and lynch of Cyberbob was a bonus, something which happened outside of core mafia play (discussing and lynching scummy players). Towns have gotten by without night actions before on just their wits.

As for CyberBob's door. It was locked and that's that. Does somebody want to go check if its locked? Does somebody want to take the key off his corpse and look inside? I don't really care because I have nothing to hide and think that far too big a deal has been made of this.

[NabakovNabakov]

Why didn't Panzerjager get caught in your traps?

Would your traps have killed Sarc by stabbing?

[NabakovNabakov]

BM, I want to hear your reasons for thinking Primate was scum.

[NabakovNabakov]

It's fairly obvious that we should completely ignore BM's claim until actual allignments come out. It likely indicates that BM is indeed anti-town (if he's pro-town he's lying for no damn reason), but it could easily be an effort by him to influence any more lynches we might have in the next week.

[NabakovNabakov]

This whole discussion is a dry hump if we take out the threat of lynches. The belief that the town will kill somebody and end the day is the driving force of a standard mafia game. Take that away, and you end up with some players not bothering to posts at all and some other players railroading them for it over and over again. We should either find a viable,

serious

lynch candidate* or end the day.

*I don't know who that might be, but I will definitely put some effort into finding out, as should everybody else.

[NabakovNabakov]

Well, if he got caught lying and was off doing something completely different, there's a very good chance a search of his house will prove it when his bedroom door is unlocked, no? It seems stupid to go down this line of accusation and do nothing to resolve it.

I volunteer to go to skitzer's house and see if his bedroom door is locked with two other people - ideally Surye and someone of Surye's choosing.

What kind of jackass tells everybody he's going to go lock his door, dissappears, comes back, tells everybody he just finished locking his door, and doesn't actually lock his door. He could have been doing all kinds of other things in addition, but even my limited faith in humanity forces me to believe that Skitzer locked his door.

[NabakovNabakov]

Huh, story confirms Surye's mayorage. It would seem like Sidney's death would be difficult to fake, but I don't see any reason for a townie to just up and die. If he was an epilectic who needed doc protection or something, wouldn't his role say so?

[NabakovNabakov]

Nabokov was not home.

I was at Ghostwriter's house (security in numbers). There should have been a note to that effect.

May I ask your intentions?

[NabakovNabakov]

I can confirm you are a cop. I cannot, as I said, be sure of your level of corruptness.

Here are some questions that might help. Feel free to answer if they pry too far, but I don't think they will.

In what capacity do you receive police reports (does the mod send you a brief or do they send one themselves?)

What was the content of Natarisha's report that led you to say Ghostwriter and I were doing "illegal" things?

Natarisha, what did you see that might have caused you to report this?

[NabakovNabakov]

I can confirm you are a cop. I cannot, as I said, be sure of your level of corruptness.

Here are some questions that might help. Feel free to answer if they pry too far, but I don't think they will.

In what capacity do you receive police reports (does the mod send you a brief or do they send one themselves?)

What was the content of Natarisha's report that led you to say Ghostwriter and I were doing "illegal" things?

Natarisha, what did you see that might have caused you to report this?

^^^ I think this got lost in the shuffle

When it comes to ABR, impulsive dayvigs aren't a tell, they're a way of life.

I will watch his wagon with interest (5 votes and growing)

[NabakovNabakov]

Hello, Mr Mayor, Surye, Sir: Can you please answer these questions? Thank you

In what capacity do you receive police reports (does the mod send you a brief or do they send one themselves?)

What was the content of Natarisha's report that led you to say Ghostwriter and I were doing "illegal" things?

Natarisha, what did you see that might have caused you to report this?

[NabakovNabakov]

Um... guys, if the reason Dasquian was shot in the first place was because he was claiming that reveals are unquestionable, why has

nobody

questioned his reveal (given that it includes practically no evidence to indicate that he is scum, just a declaration). Could Natarisha get on this?

Also, shot in the eye is the way Moe Green went down in the Godfather.

Surye is giving DGB waaay to many powers. What kind of role can perform a kill and an investigation in the same night while completely covering its tracks? How can Surye accuse DGB of being scum for "opportunism" while completely downplaying the huge fact that she daykilled a scum (if Dasquain really is scum). That's more pro-town than just about every other player in the game even if it was accidental/opportunistic (mutually exclusive?)

That said, I think it strains credulity that DGB would not figure out that townies had free rein until now. People were acting up all over D1; what did she think was going on?

[NabakovNabakov]

I just thought of something, Dasquain Bah'd as Corsican. No pro-town player would do that. Don't waste your time, Natarisha.

[NabakovNabakov]

Sorry guys, I have a hard time getting into flashbang discussions.

I would not be adverse to Hjallti dying, but I think it's gotten past the point where I have the power to do anything pro or con anymore.

Confirmedness is a crutch and not a guarantee. This would be a pretty wacked out setup if we could just play process of elmination with 5(?) investigations per-night.

[NabakovNabakov]

Confirmedness is a crutch and not a guarantee. This would be a pretty wacked out setup if we could just play process of elmination with 5(?) investigations per-night.

Its counter balanced by the possibility of infinite deaths in one night, last Realistic had 7 deaths N2 I believe.

How would a high body count have a detrimental effect on process of elimination?

[NabakovNabakov]

Surye, if you had just stopped to

think

for two seconds, you would have realized that you were positing at least a 4-man Corsican scumgroup (and didn't you see the hints that there might even be a third group?)

Also, you have Awesome Pants reporting two people, are you sure you didn't get him mixed up with a different cop?

Also, are there any cops in the bottomless police department that haven't been revealed yet? Don't say their names, just confirm or deny.

[NabakovNabakov]

1) I know that's what I was suggesting, I didn't like it, but look at all the facts. EVERYTHING lined up, but I wanted to let everyone get a chance to vote and AP to respond. But I feared if I was right he could take me out, so that is why I tried to tie him down.

Fair enough

2) No, I didn't say he was reporting two people, N1 he reported Celeb, N2 he reported Crub. Where's the issue?

The problem is you didn't tell us that in your first post today. Timelines FTW

3) Yes.

Really? Jesus.

I think in order would be a table of investigations for all three nights so far. Just use MysteryCop1 (2,3, etc) for unidentified cops and show which investigations were not handed in.

[NabakovNabakov]

I'm just going to put it out there that there was no indication of my having been investigated last night (and I remained in my home the entire night)

[NabakovNabakov]

Well this game is moving along quickly.

It seems DGB is likely one (only?) corrupt cop (I was wondering why everybody was putting all the cops on our "confirmed" lists when it's fairly obvious at least one is corrupt).

A lot of the deaths in this game have seemed too good to be true, and I guess a huge police department could provide for high levels of scum, but I just keep getting this sneaking suspicion that card flips are being somehow distorted. Maybe there's a scum role that can change them, or maybe they just show up as they are expected (if the town lynches/dayvigs, the expectation is that the lynchee is going to be scum) unless the matter is actually investigated.

[NabakovNabakov]

It seems DGB is likely one (only?) corrupt cop (I was wondering why everybody was putting all the cops on our "confirmed" lists when it's fairly obvious at least one is corrupt).

NabNab, I am no corrupt cop. The corrupt cop, if there is one, is not me. If you read carefully and look at the facts, I don't think any of what Natirisha reports is damning, but her interpretation is outlandish and overexcited.

*Shrug* Not much I can do about it at this point. As I understand it, Nat already sent the kill order.

If you're really a protown role, you should probably claim fully with any information you might have.

[NabakovNabakov]

...because that makes sense.

[NabakovNabakov]

I say one of Natirasha, myself, and Sensfan is the best mayoral choice.

I'm also suspecting NN + GW scum pair at this point in time, as there was only 1 kill.

Excuse me, but what exactly makes

you

a good candidate for mayor?

Speech, speech!

[NabakovNabakov]

We could be in LyLo,

This is what scares me. I have to do some NK analysis though.

I severely doubt it. This is a 25 player game and we have 7 dead scum. For us to be in LyLo, we'd be looking at three more scum, making scum constitute a full 2/5 as opposed to the customary 1/4. Setupwise, this could be mitigated some by the abundance of cops and different scum factions, but 15 town V 10 scum requires damn near perfect play to survive under any circumstances.

[NabakovNabakov]

I indeed confirm that GW has spent every night with me. N1 and N3 at his house, N2 at mine. As townies, we haven't been all that ambitious, but mutual protection has worked out so far.

So, if GW is scum, he has been of absolutely no use to his organization.

[NabakovNabakov]

There seem to be several issues with parsing investigation reliability, but that doesn't make investigations useless.

1) Standard cop sanity issues. If a cop has been consistently incorrect in his results, he might be plain insane.
2) Direct corruption issues. If a cop has been consistently or inconsistently incorrect in his results in a pattern that seems to favor a scum group, he might be corrupt.
3) Indirect corruption issues. If a cop has been inconsistently incorrect in no discernable pattern, his results might have been changed at the station.

Keep in mind that the second two situations would apply only to reports given to the mayor, not what the cop actually saw (though I supposed a directly corrupt cop would corroborate it in his posting while a duped cop would not)

[NabakovNabakov]

No access until Monday, June 16

[NabakovNabakov]

We went our seperate ways last night.

GW seemed insistent on tracking Crub (for whatever reason). If he did, I don't know what happened. I stayed in my home. (My absence this weekend might have also played a factor as we usually plan our night actions together)

Given that he has been my near-constant companion and I would say has never made any nightkills, GW is still unconfirmed, and our communications as quasi-masons haven't really done much to confirm him. I wasn't sure what his deal with Crub was, so I backed off. I've been trying to aviod bad situations all game.

[NabakovNabakov]

So let's take stock here.

Remaining Police Officers:
Natarisha
SensFan

Others:
armlx
Crub
Ghostwriter
NabNab

From what I can tell of night-actions, Ghostwriter and Crub are pretty publicly accounted for. Based on previous reliability (especially Nat), I trust that Nat and Sens are uncorrupt. I can account for myself but understand that others can't, armlx is in the same position as me. (Though in the long range, my non-violent masonry with GW should be worth something)

Now, there were no kills tonight. Possible explanations:

1) The papers were right and the two remaining scum met and reformed. Unless it was armlx and me (it wasn't), that would mean somebody is lying/one of our officers is corrupt. I'd rather this not be the case as it sets us back to square -2. Of course, if it isn't, why is it in the papers?
2) We have one scum, but he was blocked. Then who's the doctor, and hasn't his testimony already come out? Highly unlikely.
3) We have one scum who did nothing (probably in order to blend in). This is the most likely situation, and, unfortunately, completely moots any analysis of who was "cleared" last night.

Given that we failed to gather any significant information last night, it would probably be best to just have another one. Various confirmations/a thread's worth of information have given our scum very little room to maneuver, and if we all watch each other closely (like we have been), it will be very difficult for him to make a move without being caught.

I think we might have a Happily Ever After on our hands, which would make sense given the theme of the game. (How many towns really pare themselves down to three members in a desprate attempt to hunt down criminals?)

However, if we do insist on killing somebody today, I'd go with armlx for being consistently unaccounted for (seriously, has anybody figured out what he does at night?)

[NabakovNabakov]

No access until next wednesday (China)

[NabakovNabakov]

Sorry K-Scope, I really should have been better about that.

Vote: End Day

[NabakovNabakov]

Bah!

Just throw me on the corpse pile.