Mini 765 - Welcome to Hambargarville GAME OVER!!

[yellowbunny]

Jase...the question is in post 65.

@Jase: why the vote on X? Calling him out for thinking that not liking the random vote stage is scummy is one thing. But a vote for that? Seems like you are randomly trying to change your vote and then covering it with a weak excuse.

[Jase]

The vote was because he was the focus of my suspicion. Also I changed my vote from a random one so it isn't as though I was trying to jump off a dead wagon or something like that.

I think that the discussion about wall-e is pointless until he's prodded. If he IS in fact lurking that might merit some discussion, but I'm beginning to suspect that he just flaked.

I'm also not liking the way Cubarey is looking. Though I did find IKs response a bit over-defensive it seems like Cub is trying to make it seem like much more than that. As a matter of fact...he contradicts himself saying that Xs question was not serious but meant to see how IK would react, then later he says that Xs remark was a simple request for information, and any townie would have taken it as such.

Seeing this now I'll change my vote once more.

Unvote

Vote: CUBAREY

[hambargarz]

VOTE COUNT
(1) qwints (World No.1 Noob)

(4) Wall-E (Ojanen, qwints, Kreriov, yellowbunny)

(1) CUBAREY (Jase)
(1) burfy (X)
(1) Idiotking (CUBAREY)

Not voting
Lleu, Wall-E, burfy, Idiotking

Prod is being sent to Wall-E

[Wall-E]

Hey, second time I've 'found' this thread after losing it, and once again, I forgot to push "watch for replies." Now it is pushed. I checked twice.

Lleu's responses annoy me a little bit. It's like he's trying to get me to answer nonexistent questions or force obvious or common knowledge answers out of me. A lot of people dislike random voting, this can't be the first time he heard of such a dislike.

DO you have a problem with making obvious statements? A bit of hypocrisy here.

The above post was to Idiotking, sorry.

yeah, figured. No worries

Umm, does anyone else see something wrong with this statement?

sorry for the delay folks, i didn't push the "Watch this topic for replies" link and forgot about this thread. My bad

What is wrong with that statement? Be very specific please, burfy.

Umm, does anyone else see something wrong with this statement?

sorry for the delay folks, i didn't push the "Watch this topic for replies" link and forgot about this thread. My bad

Yes! You've gotta go to the thread first to push the button. If you go there why not confirm at the same time? It's only one word.
I was wondering if scum could talk amongst themselves during N0. Then the natural reaction might be PMing your scumbuddies first.

No idea what happened here, but you've all got it wrong. The case here is that I said, "I forgot to click this thing." the very first time I read the thread? Yeah, that's probably what happened. The thing is, if I don't push that "Watch this topic for replies" link, as I am prone to do, I forget about the game. My go-to response in that case is to say, "Whoops, sorry. Once again, I forgot to push the 'watch this topic for replies' link

i'm tired of explaining this and it's driving the town into a rut

i'm claiming to save us all some bullshit

i'm a VT, and luckily enough i can vote to kill badguys

Then again, only five pages? You all weren't that interested in scumhunting to beging with, it seems. *sly smile behind a japanese fan*

[Ojanen]

Dumb question: what's a VT?

[burfy]

VT = vanilla townie. Basic townie, nothing special like a cop, just standard.

Ok, Wall-E, what i found puzzling about your comment was how come you needed to watch the topic for replies to know when to check in. I was notified by the PM i received. Now, i theorized possibly it was because after you saw the PM you were distracted by something else and forgot to confirm, not to watch for replies. The fact that you forgot to click watch replies twice is also somewhat suspicious.

[Kreriov]

Wow, um, actually, I was just about to unvote reading Wall-E's post until the very end. Claiming? Already? Hell, I would have just been satisfied that you were back and participating. There are other people who have low participation as well whom I would have started in on once I saw you were back until that claim. You are at L-3 and at best people were concerned about your participation, not about to lynch you. I am sorry, I am just sort of stunned right now and not sure what to think.

[qwints]

Wall-E, two questions:

1) Why didn't you confirm the first time you came to the thread? (That is, the time you were in the thread and forgot to press the button)

2) Why claim right there? You were at L-3.

[yellowbunny]

@Wall-e

Then again, only five pages? You all weren't that interested in scumhunting to beging with, it seems. *sly smile behind a japanese fan*

Although I agree with you 100% about the lack of hunting for scum targets other than you, you're not going to deflect criticism off of yourself that easily. You are very experienced, and even moderate games. I expect this means a certain level of competency/organization on your part, and this makes the "LAWL...I forgot...AGAIN!" a bit hard to swallow.

@Kre/Qwints: Wait...seriously guys? You're calling him out for claiming vanilla townie??? If he jumped up and claimed doctor or cop or something like that...yeah, that sets off some serious alarms. But VT?? The majority of us are probably VT right? Also his post has a very annoyed/flippant tone to it. While I don't really agree with him being annoyed or flippant (as I think the heat under him is deserved)...saying that he thinks he has become a red herring and is claiming to get the town moving onto something more productive doesn't seem unrealistic from that pov.

[yellowbunny]

Oh and sorry for the double post, but I was just rereading and noticed:

There are other people who have low participation as well whom I would have started in on once I saw you were back until that claim.

Okay...why wait? Even if Wall-e is scum there is other scum in the game. Lets hear your other suspicions.

[Kreriov]

Oh, I am not stopping looking at others and good point about the VT thing as far as it goes. It is the fact that the very first thing he does is claim, wether VT, Doc, Cop or whatever, that just throws up flags. There is really nothing much to go on when deciding the first lynch other than odd behavior. Claiming simply because a few people have voted for you and SAID the only reason they were voting for you is because you have not been participating is decidely odd.

As for other things I am looking at and would like people to discuss.

How about Cubarey? Only 3 posts so far. I would like to hear more from him.

Or Noob, who hasn't posted in 4 days.

Or X, who seems to be jumping around a bit.

Or back to Idiotking who just seemed so defensive.

There is just so little to go on I feel like it best to get everyone involved until something weird happens and those are really the only things that stand out to me right now.

[X]

2) Why claim right there? You were at L-3.

Good question. And for YB's benefit, I have the same reason to ask the question as Kreriov:

It is the fact that the very first thing he does is claim, wether VT, Doc, Cop or whatever, that just throws up flags. There is really nothing much to go on when deciding the first lynch other than odd behavior. Claiming simply because a few people have voted for you and SAID the only reason they were voting for you is because you have not been participating is decidely odd.

I also really don't like how he didn't make an attempt to scumhunt.

FoS: Wall-E

.

Or X, who seems to be jumping around a bit.

Guilty as charged. As I see it, you have to have a very open mind on D1.

I definitely want to hear more from Cubarey, Lleu, W1N, and Wall-E.

[Jase]

Oh, I am not stopping looking at others and good point about the VT thing as far as it goes. It is the fact that the very first thing he does is claim, wether VT, Doc, Cop or whatever, that just throws up flags. There is really nothing much to go on when deciding the first lynch other than odd behavior. Claiming simply because a few people have voted for you and SAID the only reason they were voting for you is because you have not been participating is decidely odd.

As for other things I am looking at and would like people to discuss.

How about Cubarey? Only 3 posts so far. I would like to hear more from him.

(My current scum pick due to the way he contradicted himself)

Or Noob, who hasn't posted in 4 days.

(We'll have to see when he's prodded I think, it'd be a waste of time to discuss his absence if he just gets replaced)

Or X, who seems to be jumping around a bit.

(I wouldn't describe X as "jumping around" he hasn't really committed to anything enough yet)

Or back to Idiotking who just seemed so defensive.

(I don't think he was all that over defensive, it's only natural to put down any points agains yourself as thouroughly as you can)

There is just so little to go on I feel like it best to get everyone involved until something weird happens and those are really the only things that stand out to me right now.

[Wall-E]

Here's the reason I don't check threads that aren't on my Watched Topics page: I don't check threads that aren't on my Watched Topics page. I don't browse the site at-large, only that one page and any links on it. Sorry for the confusion, again.

I claimed because 88% of the thread was about me, and it looked like I was likely to be the lynch for the day from my perspective. If I jumped the gun, I apologize.

@yellowbunny and anyone thinking I'm good at this game: omg fffff ahahahahaha No I suck. One thing I have going for me is bull-headed stubbornness, which is often a trait of experts, but rest assured it's a by-product of my single-mindedness and not skill.

That's not to say I haven't caught my fair-share of scum in my day, though I'd attribute that more to my understanding of logic.

Anyway, this is going to take some undoing, but I'm down.

As I've tried to explain, it's a common error for me, since I'm typically in five or six games at a time, once in a while one slips through the cracks: I get a Role PM but no link to the thread, read the PM but don't have time to find it, then forget. When I realized that's what happened to this game I joined and said, "Sorry, I forgot to click, 'Watch this topic for replies.' " which was the END-PRODUCT of what I should have said happened: "Sorry, I forgot to find the thread and click, 'Watch this topic for replies.' "

All that said, I'm watching this thread now, and reading everything. I'll butt in when I feel sufficiently pithy.

[qwints]

Fair enough, but IGMEOY

unvote

[Ojanen]

Gotta say I was amused at the mental image of Wall-E coming to the tread after forgeting it for the first time, typing an apology about watched topics and then forgeting what he had just typed two seconds ago and heading away again only to forget the whole game again.
Also gotta say that while I agree that the scumhunting of many including myself has been somewhat lacklustre so far, that was a rather very hypocritical thing to say from you.
That being said, I'll also

unvote

for the time being, but I'm expecting you to butt in soon.

I just reread and couldn't find much anything that hasn't been brought up already. CUBAREY stands out with the infamous post 90. That's the worst looking post so far, waiting for him to come and answer to the questions already asked by others.
The other thing that stands out is Lleu asking two questions from Idiotking that looked like they had just been made for the sake of questioning, sort of pseudo-scumhunting. ("Could you at least explain why you hate it?" about the RVS discussion and "Considering how eager you were to start discussion, could you at least address the question when you're questioned?" about an unanswered feeling guilty?-kind of rhetorical question.)
So I might as well let it be known that I

FoS CUBAREY, Lleu

.

[The World No.1 Noob]

wow, this is an insane amount of activity compared to what I'm used to
sorry I haven't posted in a while, I have been a bit busy.
Right now I think all the votes going around are a bit superficial, all based on small things that may or may not mean anything...,
Wall-E's case is the only one that I find could lead to something atm, I find all the other cases a bit shallow based.

Wall-E's case:

I don't think the claim was any kind of tell, but do find the I was on the page but I didn't confirm a bit weird.

[X]

I also really don't like how he didn't make an attempt to scumhunt.

FoS: Wall-E

.

You (qwints and Ojanen) unvote because he restates his reasons again without scumhunting? Then I'll take your place voting for him.

Unvote: burfy

,

Vote: Wall-E

.

[Jase]

wow, this is an insane amount of activity compared to what I'm used to
sorry I haven't posted in a while, I have been a bit busy.
Right now I think all the votes going around are a bit superficial, all based on small things that may or may not mean anything...,
Wall-E's case is the only one that I find could lead to something atm, I find all the other cases a bit shallow based.

Wall-E's case:

I don't think the claim was any kind of tell, but do find the I was on the page but I didn't confirm a bit weird.

You think that the case agains Wall-E has the most merit...? I disagree wholeheartedly. In my opinion the only substantial thing we've seen has been from cubarey.

[Kreriov]

Yeah Noob, that is the biggest problem with day 1, everything is supposition and accusation with little or no backing. If I say I hate it for that reason will that be ok?

A quick, unnecessary claim is not supposition. It is concrete evidence. True or not, its also a bad move to claim with no real reason. Actually, I also do not like some of the following

@yellowbunny and anyone thinking I'm good at this game: omg fffff ahahahahaha No I suck. One thing I have going for me is bull-headed stubbornness, which is often a trait of experts, but rest assured it's a by-product of my single-mindedness and not skill.

That's not to say I haven't caught my fair-share of scum in my day, though I'd attribute that more to my understanding of logic.

Anyway, this is going to take some undoing, but I'm down.

As I've tried to explain, it's a common error for me, since I'm typically in five or six games at a time, once in a while one slips through the cracks

Ok, so you are not an expert at this game and yet you are in 5 or 6 games at once. Even if you are not an expert, you should know better than to claim to quickly.

Having said all this, I am still going to do this

unvote

I already have limited time and access on the weekends, this Sunday is Palm Sunday, and I do like Wall-Es willingess to admit 'this is going to take some undoing'. I look forward to reading the resulting discussion on Wall-E and Cubarey in particular on Monday! Enjoy the weekend all.

[Ojanen]

One more experiment, though.
If I understand correctly the rules, this shouldn't be illegal to ask or answer cause it's not direct quoting, but please someone correct me if I haven't got the hang of it.

As I've tried to explain, it's a common error for me, since I'm typically in five or six games at a time, once in a while one slips through the cracks:

I get a Role PM but no link to the thread

, read the PM but don't have time to find it, then forget.

When I realized that's what happened to this game

I joined and said, "Sorry, I forgot to click, 'Watch this topic for replies.' " which was the END-PRODUCT of what I should have said happened: "Sorry, I forgot to find the thread and click, 'Watch this topic for replies.' "

You state here that your role PM doesn't have a link to the thread, right?

[Wall-E]

acutally, you made me go check, and it does

it's one word and kinda small though

[CUBAREY]

@Cubarey: I agree with Idiot and Krer...calling Idiot scum for saying that his was a natural response is really weak.

The only other plausible explaination is that you are an innocent townie but are paranoid about anyone questioning your motives. Since I do not believe that you are paranoid I must assume that you are a Mafioso.

Um..you know this how? What evidence do you have AGAINST him being paranoid? If you have something, I'm missing it. While Idiot has said things which are noteworthy, I think you are grasping at straws on this one. Maybe I should call you a Mafioso for making such a strongly worded accusation on such flimsy evidence?

I meant paranoid in RL. Person asks for an explaination and he gets My "Natural Response" is to call you scum. Its more then a little over the top. Thus I felt that the reaction was do to his possibly being Mafia. Now, am I certain, of course not, but on the first day you never have hard evidence all you can go by is what your gut tells you from a few posts. And reacting like Idiotking did is not normal. Why not just answer the question and leave it at that?

To IdiotKing:

I do not post much at the beginning of a game because its mostly a waste of time. I'll make comments only when posts seem odd to me and indicate that something is fishy.

First day lynches are almost always semi-random by definition. Someone says something that seems suspicous, someone else calls him on it and if he/she does not respond with an appropriate answer the original poster finds himself with a couple of votes, if there are no other likely targets people start to join the wagon (either becuase they have no firm suspicions themselves or they are scum and want townies to die). I thought your reaction was over the top and you stating that it would be a "natural response" to call someone scum for asking you for an explaination a possible tell. At this point I stick by my initial read of you.

[Idiotking]

It's not necessarily that I'm paranoid (well, I am a little bit). It's that I find it difficult to express my thoughts in a concise manner. I'm not charismatic at all. So I ramble and say whatever comes to mind first, hence the "natural response" statement. If anything, THAT's what you have a problem with.

[The World No.1 Noob]

You think that the case agains Wall-E has the most merit...? I disagree wholeheartedly. In my opinion the only substantial thing we've seen has been from cubarey.

Well, lets exchange our opinions:

I think the cubarey case isn't too strong simply because his joining date says the 22nd of March 2009...that's certainly not enough time to even have finished one game. I think he's trying a bit too hard to fit in.

I've quite a few other small suspicions which again I've eliminated until further evidence comes up:

I find it odd how X and Idiotking seems to come to a mutual understanding, of how the other person was just trying to generate discussion, so fast

I also find Leu and you a bit odd in certain places of that debate but I'll save why for now so not all my methods of observation will be known this early in the game.


Wall-E's case is much more interesting, its little pick ups like this that in my opinion are much more important.