Antrax Returns: Game Over.

[the silent speaker]

I'm curious, Cadmium -- out of all the people you cited for pushing cam to claim, why did only Flying Dutchman warrant a FOS?

[Sketchwick]

Vote count, 10 to lynch, no deadline:

7 jadesmar (rite, Cadmium, mathcam, mneme, Quailman, Mr Gnome, Coolbot)
3 mathcam (massive, jadesmar, IS)
2 IS (Antrax, tigris)
1 Antrax (The silent speaker)
1 Coolbot (NanookTheWolf)
1 Quailman (mole)

Not voting: Jaguar, Flying Dutchman, MMCL, Yaw

[Flying Dutchman]

I find it hard to believe

both

of them have super secret roles that can't be mentioned.

Are you asking for claims on day 1!?

I don't get this. A lot of people seemed to be "asking" for a claim, so why is Coolbot's comment suspicious enough for FD to mention and the other, way more obvious comments (like rite's) not?

FOS: Flying Dutchman

Because at that time Mathcam had answered all questions about his role, and I consider this to be trying to get some more information from one of the players when it's not needed at all, Mathcam has said he's no cop, what else can you want?!

[CoolBot]

And cubsfan, whould you rather we all hint at our roles?

Cubsfan ?

Ack, I meant flying dutchman.

[Flying Dutchman]

This is the first time I'm confused with cubsfan.....

Anyways, NO, we don't need to hint at our roles, I just thought you were fishing for claims.....

[Sketchwick]

Antrax asked that I post that mafiascum is down for him.

[jadesmar]

Because at that time Mathcam had answered all questions about his role, and I consider this to be trying to get some more information from one of the players when it's not needed at all, Mathcam has said he's no cop, what else can you want?!

I wouldn't mind knowing what sort of information he has and why based on this, I am allegedly scum.

If he is not a cop, why is he attacking me? I have only seen vague hints to some sort of "information". Can someone provide the name of a role other than cop, that would have any information?

Without knowing what that information is, I can't provide any sort of defense against it. Since, I know that I am on the town's side, this "information" that I am not, and his refusal to provide the source and content of this "information" when asked, place mathcam in a very suspicious light.

Oh, BTW, a role other than cop that would have information is mafia/scum. Can anyone name another?

[mneme]

Jade: yes. In fact, I already have.

(fwiw, I was never, at any time, trying to "fish" for more information out of Cam. I might have at one point or another given away too much info (in terms of speculation or such) myself, but I saw no need to get -more- info than he was already giving).

[Quailman]

I now believe me more too.

I'll keep my vote on jadesmar and am now a little more confident that I'm right.

I don't really see how you can get more confident with what's been said here, though I admit there's a lot. With everything that's been posted, I am now a little concerned that cam is a gunsmith-type, perhaps a dry cleaner who found bloodstains. I'm moving to the group that wants a little clarification before the lynch. I don't think mathcam is a lynch candidate by any means, but a I'm little less comfortable following him blindly.

unvote: Jadesmar; FOS jadesmar

[jadesmar]

Maybe we can just talk about something else for a while, i.e. Antrax and IS. I think it's probably I will get more information as the day progresses.

Cam

Ok, what's this about then?

This seems a little far fetched.

Cam, how will more information be available to you as the day progresses?

[mathcam]

jadesmar, how much info

do

you want me to give your mafia buddies?

Cam

[jadesmar]

Look, mathcam, you have me marked as scum for apparently no reason that you will mention, other than "information"; I am not scum, but you are not providing me with anything I can defend against other than your apparent role.

This apparent role makes very little sense to me and you keep adding information making it less and less like any role I have encountered.

So pardon me if I want a little more information.

[NanookTheWolf]

This could always be the case of two townies going at it, It's been done many times, while mafia are just sitting back enjoying the show. I think if anything we should be looking at the lurkers now. If I had to choose between Jadesmar and Mathcam, I would most likely choose Jadesmar only because Mathcam is hinting at some sort of information gaining role that we could always verify later. As for Jadesmar, we haven't heard anything yet on what kind of role he could have.

[massive]

Note to self: In an invitational game with experienced players, you may NOT go away for the weekend!

I just saw (above me) Nanook pull the "maybe they're both townies" card, which is the second time someone has done that in this game (Cadmium did it earlier in regards to IS/Antrax, to draw attention to the mathcam/jadesmar discussion). I always find this suspicious because there's nothing to indicate that this is anywhere near the truth. The only way these people would want to put this idea forth is (a) because they know it's true or (b) they want us to believe that it's true. Surely, Nanook, you can't think that BOTH mathcam AND jadesmar could be innocent in this? Why would you? As a townie, you're supposed to be suspicious of everyone, not trusting of everyone. I can't see why you'd feel this way.

I actually like the way mathcam is following this through, enough to

unvote mathcam

at the very least, and then to

vote jadesmar

.

[Cadmium]

I'm curious, Cadmium -- out of all the people you cited for pushing cam to claim, why did only Flying Dutchman warrant a FOS?

I think you might want to re-read my post (or the whole thread for that matter). Flying Dutchman was not one of the people pushing cam to claim. He was the one doing what you're accusing me of. I think I might have to remember this incident ...

[the silent speaker]

I'm not accusing you of anything, Cadmium. I'm asking questions. Sorry if they're awkward for you. No, wait, not sorry. Intrigued and suspicious, those are the words.

Rereading your post, I think I see what you mean, though. You were FOSing FD not for pushing a claim but for being selective in who he criticized for it.

Again I have to ask: if you find FD's selective criticism suspicious, why FOS only him and not the people he is ostensibly protecting? Why leave people like rite and mneme unFOSed?

I don't see why following someone day one who's vote isn't "entirely random" is worse than bandwagoning a random player.

Because blindly following anyone who says their vote isn't entirely random makes it almost too easy for the mafia to lead the town by the nose, and blindly following anyone leaves few to no clues that can be followed up on the next day. You

know

this, Cadmium. What are you playing at with comments like this?

[Jaguar]

So right now we have Antrax vs IS based on IS's argument that Antrax has to be scum or else why would he still be alive. We also have Mathcam vs jadesmar because Mathcam appears to have some information that jadesmar may be more than he lets on. However, Mathcam has also said that with more conversation going on he may get more information on the Antrax/IS side of things.

This just does not make sense.

We also have two deaths, one by shooting and one by knife, seeming to indicate one SK and one mafia group, although with 21 players you'd like to think that there are perhaps three killing groups or we may face the dreaded cult if there is only the SK and the one mafia group.

MMCL is unusually quiet this time around. His 5 posts have only minorly contributed to the game and I think our low post count winner has to be MGIA with only one post all game! Although I have to say that there are a few people in this game that have only posted two liner posts and few of those so far.

Not sure what to think of the four instigators so far but I sure don't believe that all four are innocent townies. I'm just not sure where to put my vote at this time. I'll continue to observe...

[mathcam]

I don't really see how you can get more confident with what's been said here

That's because there's stuff you don't know. I realize I'm being annoyingly vague, but I really do feel like this is the town's best interests.

I am medium/mediuim-high on the confidence scale that jadesmar is scum. If you have a strong opinion for someone else, I highly encourage you to go after them. If you're wandering around aimlessly looking for someone to vote, then why do it randomly or on a "hunch" when you'll get a lot more information about me by following my lead.

Cam

[Yaw]

Curiouser and curiouser...

Cadmium, yes, I've been asking for more information. A big part of the reason for that is the fact that the mod is giving us none in the death scenes. Without some confirmation of scumminess on death, we need to get more information out during the daytime.

You are right, though -- jadesmar's responses have been very strange, and have gotten worse. I'm becoming more confident that he's scum based on his own behaviour rather than Cam's, and am willing to put my vote back on to force a real claim from him once I see an updated vote count.

[Sketchwick]

Vote count, 10 to lynch, no deadline:

7 jadesmar (rite, Cadmium, mathcam, mneme, Mr Gnome, Coolbot, massive)
2 mathcam (jadesmar, IS)
2 IS (Antrax, tigris)
1 Antrax (The silent speaker)
1 Coolbot (NanookTheWolf)
1 Quailman (mole)

Not voting: Jaguar, Flying Dutchman, MMCL, Yaw, Quailman

[NanookTheWolf]

Well, I think that Jadesmar has got enough votes for a claim ... and

Unvote: Coolbot

as there is no need for that any longer. Just a random deal earlier in the game is all.

[Yaw]

Ah, there's a vote count.

Vote: jadesmar

as promised. That's lynch minus two. I want more than "I am not a cop" this time around as a defense.

[Antrax]

I'm sorta back. For some reason I can't load the site from time to time, probably CSS (Crappy Country Syndrom). In any case, jadesmar, I REALLY think it's time for you to claim. You were the one that was accused first, so it makes sense you'll claim first and not mathcam.
Cadmium and friends: I really, REALLY hate filler posts, seriously. It just makes it harder to read the thread. Yes, given two independent options for two people, there is a total of 2*2=4 possible combinations of options. Do you really think other people couldn't figure it out for themselves?
TSS, you're full of it, but it's your style, so knock yourself out. I'm not quite sure WHY you think anyone's impressed by someone being vague and portentous, but I can assure you I'm not. Either make some sort of statement, or stop posting with no content. Here, I'll help you out:
"I think Antrax is scum because..."
I explain my votes and reasoning. I would appreciate if other people did the same.

[the silent speaker]

"I think Antrax is scum because..."
"... he identified which kill was made by IS, something that if innocent he would have no way of knowing."
Happy now?

[mathcam]

How does that follow at all?

Cam