Open 174- Lovers Mafia (Over!)

[imkingdavid]

EBWOP: And would you please respond to the other parts of my posts and not just the part that you can twist into making me look even more scummy? Thanks

[ZazieR]

I could go for a IKD lynch, but I'd much rather get rid of Sanjay.

Why could you go for a David lynch?

[ZazieR]

Sanjay

- What's up with you ignoring my questions in Post 85?

[ZazieR]

Zwet, you haven't done anything productive since the game began. Care to post something longer than one sentence?
Oh wait, now I remember. You never post anything more than 1 sentence. Never mind.

Why this personal attack?

Also, regarding your example. If it's not in the same league as what actually happened, it's called an invalid comparison. Which is the case here.

Also, may I pose the question: why would scum so blatantly choose to omit such a major part in the game?

Two reasons, of which one may not be applicable here:
-You saw a different player state that he didn't know. If this player is town, you as scum gain advantage of this. Because if one townie does it, another townie can make the same mistake, not? (This is the one that may not be applicable and this is a lesser reason why scum would do it compared to the other)
-Why would scum fake knowing the setu-up? Because we're dealing with

Mafia

lovers. So who would know the set-up of the scum side better: Town or scum?
The answer is scum. So by faking it, it gives a town impression.
However, when a bad excuse gets stated, like now, it needs some investigation.

[ZazieR]

EBWOP:

imkingdavid, could you explain why you don't think

acting like you don't know

the mafia are lovers constitutes actual evidence?

AHh, just caught on to your sneaky choice of words, too. You guys are pretty quick to accuse me of being scum for "acting" like I forgot and making up "false excuses" to save myself. But 12KB did the same thing and you didn't blink twice when he apologized. Not to ask you guys to stop looking at me, but it seems strange that you'd look hard at one person for doing something that another person did and not look at the other person.

Pointing fingers is noted.
Also:

theorically if you've caught one scum you've got the other by suicide reaction.

Ah, excellent point! I had forgotten about the lovers.

How?

[ZazieR]

Also,

David

, anything else you want to comment on in Post 81?

[ZazieR]

RE: that was a follow-up question to

"Also, may I pose the question: why would scum so blatantly choose to omit such a major part in the game?"

If I were scum, I wouldn't blatantly act like I forgot something like that, as it would shine the light on me instantly, as has happened in this case. From experience, I know that I pay more attention to detail in games I play as scum compared to games I play as town. When I was scum (i.e. in my first game, newbie 802) I would spent 10 minutes fretting over whether or not a post might even sound the slightest bit scummy. But as town, I don't pay as much attention. Apparently I haven't been paying enough.

Anyway, are you going to answer my question, or are you going to try and make me look worse by not answering but expecting an answer out of me? Because the latter is scummy.

Circular logic.
Also, arguments like 'I wouldn't do this as scum' are invalid in a game like Lovers.

[ZazieR]

well, IKD has more content to analyse and isn't as bandwagon-berserk as you are Sanjay

Question: Why is bandwagoning scummy?

[ZazieR]

David

- Why aren't you voting anybody?

[dramonic]

because when I exclude myself and the people who I think are scum, lynching him has a 66% chance of netting scum.

And I wouldnt say bandwagonning is scummy, but Sanjay is being fickle as a breeze.

[Sajin]

The "You're the One That I Want" Vote Count:

Players:
(0) dramonic
(0) zwetschenwasser
(1) Sanjay- (dramonic)
(1) 12Keyblade- (Sanjay)
(0) Zazier
(2) IMkingdavid (Zazier, zwet)

With 6 friends remaining, it is 4 to lynch.



Checking for prods.

[ZazieR]

Checking for prods.

Mod

- The guy you're searching for is also known as 12KB. Please prod him.
Perhaps it's time to get my stick out again...

[ZazieR]

because when I exclude myself and the people who I think are scum, lynching him has a 66% chance of netting scum.

And I wouldnt say bandwagonning is scummy, but Sanjay is being fickle as a breeze.

Unless you want to change a word here, I have no idea what you're saying here.
Also, who do you think Sanjay's partner is if he's scum?

[ZazieR]

because when I exclude myself and the people who I think are scum, lynching him has a 66% chance of netting scum.

And I wouldnt say bandwagonning is scummy, but Sanjay is being fickle as a breeze.

Unless you want to change a word here, I have no idea what you're saying here.
Also, who do you think Sanjay's partner is if he's scum?

Also, for clarification, the 'him' in your quote is referring to David, right?

[Sanjay]

I didn't answer your question, Zazie, I wanted to ask imkingdavid my question first.

imkingdavid did make two shows of caution that I didn't comment on. Both in response to zwet putting someone at L-1.

wow that's a major wagon on 12. Already L-1. Let's reel it back in before we have a lynch on the second page of a game.

In any case, I don't have time to post my thoughts at the moment because of homework. Maybe later tonight, or at the latest, tomorrow.

I can see scum making this post to show off how townish they are and I suppose scum-imkingdavid might choose to defend scum-12Keyblade in this way, but I can also see town being legitimately worried about a quick lynch. A lot of people I have seen left at L-1 have been lynched before I was ready to end the day, and so I guess I was biased towards the town reading.

To contrast it with 12Keyblade's show of caution, 12Keyblade was cautious about people being put at L-2. That's a lot more eye catching than this imkingdavid post.

zwet... do you enjoy having multiple people at L-1 before the 3rd page? I can understand if you have suspicions, maybe, but "This is hilarious" is not a good reason to put someone one vote from a lynch. I admit that my vote was on the less serious side as well, but it wasn't L-1. We only have up to 4 (?) days to hit scum. Let's not throw away a day on accident.

unvote

imkingdavid saying that we had 4 days to hit scum was much more interesting to me than imkingdavid unvoting me. Maybe I was a little happy he did?

There's a few things that don't really make sense to me about imkingdavid's:

1. I am puzzled how he forgot the mafia were lovers ESPECIALLY after 12Keyblade made the post about forgetting about the lovers. I am generally a little skeptical that anyone in this game would forget about that, since it is the whole theme of the game, but imkingdavid's post seems especially weird.

2. If imkingdavid is scum and is trying to pretend he forgot the mafia were lovers, it seems like a very crafty way to do it (speculating that there are 4 days left to kill mafia). I suppose if 12Keyblade was town imkingdavid might have gotten the idea to forget that there were mafia as well, but if this were the case it seems like it would be a lot easier for him to just use it as evidence against 12Keyblade and go for his lynch, rather than trying to copy him.

Though I suppose that if he is scum he has access to daytalk so he could get his partner to go after 12Keyblade, but that seems like a bad strategy to go after someone else for the same thing your partner is doing. Plus if this were the case I would not have expected imkingdavid to be clueless about why it is scummy in the first place.

3. I don't know why imkingdavid doesn't find 12Keyblade scummy for posting about not knowing the mafia were lovers. He seems to be abandoning it as a valid piece of evidence altogether, even if he

imkingdavid, after ZazieR's explanation of why it is scummy, do you find 12Keyblade scummy for it now?

4. I wasn't trying to word my question to make imkingdavid look bad and I don't know why he thinks I did. imkingdavid, I said you were acting like you forgot about the lovers because you were. I don't know whether you actually forgot as well, so I really don't feel like I am twisting anything by phrasing the question like that. Maybe I am misreading myself, but it seems a bit paranoid to me, which is a little scummy.

ZazieR, was the ORLY? part of 85 a serious question or should I just answer that with YA RLY or something?

[Sanjay]

Unvote; Vote: Imkingdavid

YAY someone on my scumlist!

Who else is on this scumlist? Am I to infer that both 12Keyblade and myself aren't on it or something? What's the deal with that?

[zwetschenwasser]

Yes, exactly. Congratulations, you understand basic logic!

[imkingdavid]

Also, regarding your example. If it's not in the same league as what actually happened, it's called an invalid comparison. Which is the case here.

Also, may I pose the question: why would scum so blatantly choose to omit such a major part in the game?

Two reasons, of which one may not be applicable here:
-You saw a different player state that he didn't know. If this player is town, you as scum gain advantage of this. Because if one townie does it, another townie can make the same mistake, not? (This is the one that may not be applicable and this is a lesser reason why scum would do it compared to the other)
-Why would scum fake knowing the setu-up? Because we're dealing with

Mafia

lovers. So who would know the set-up of the scum side better: Town or scum?
The answer is scum. So by faking it, it gives a town impression.
However, when a bad excuse gets stated, like now, it needs some investigation.

1) Yes, but wouldn't it be stupid for scum to make the same mistake literally RIGHT after a townie did? As I said in my defense, this is my first non-newbie game so i'm still getting used to the different things. Also, as I said, when I am scum I pay a load more attention to what I type than when I am not scum. If you must, you can go reference each of my other games and see how erratic I am when posting as town, whereas I never got even 1 vote against myself during my entire game as scum (newbie 802), showing that I do pay much more attention to detail.
2) You are correct, scum do know the setup. Only they and the mod know the setup. So because I had to go re-evaluate what I said, it shows that I had not spent much time at all on thinking about the setup but rather I posted before I thought hard enough about it.

Pointing fingers is noted.

So you can point out if I ever say something might raise suspicion, but I can't point out when someone appears to be trying to make me look worse than I am?
Noted.

Also,

David

, anything else you want to comment on in Post 81?

What did I miss? If you would like to reiterate one of your points or questions, I'll be happy to answer it for you...

...after supper.

[imkingdavid]

RE: that was a follow-up question to

"Also, may I pose the question: why would scum so blatantly choose to omit such a major part in the game?"

If I were scum, I wouldn't blatantly act like I forgot something like that, as it would shine the light on me instantly, as has happened in this case. From experience, I know that I pay more attention to detail in games I play as scum compared to games I play as town. When I was scum (i.e. in my first game, newbie 802) I would spent 10 minutes fretting over whether or not a post might even sound the slightest bit scummy. But as town, I don't pay as much attention. Apparently I haven't been paying enough.

Anyway, are you going to answer my question, or are you going to try and make me look worse by not answering but expecting an answer out of me? Because the latter is scummy.

Circular logic.
Also, arguments like 'I wouldn't do this as scum' are invalid in a game like Lovers.

Technically, arguments like 'I wouldn't do this as scum' are invalid in any game of mafia.

well, IKD has more content to analyse and isn't as bandwagon-berserk as you are Sanjay

Question: Why is bandwagoning scummy?

I realize this is Dram's question, but I believe he already answered it in post 109, so I'll put in some input as well.
Bandwagoning is scummy when you are doing it just to have a vote on and to increase the votes on someone else. It makes it look like you don't actually have a reason to vote and as if you don't care who is lynched. And all protown players *should* care who is lynched, and therefore shouldn't bandwagon because someone could by mislynched before they can provide a defense.

David

- Why aren't you voting anybody?

Because I don't remember any rule stating that everyone has to have a vote on someone at all times. You see, when I vote, I mean to signify that I am in support for that person's lynch. If I am not voting that person, I don't have enough suspicion of them to support their lynch. If I do vote someone, I want them gone. If I find more scummy things about someone else, I might then change my vote. However, I do not vote until I have adequate suspicions of someone enough to warrant me wanting them gone.
Since we only have 2 days to get it right or we lose, I am not going to toss my vote around. Like I said above, I actually care about who gets lynched, whereas it would seem you don't since you have people at L-1 and L-2 at such early stages in the game. We have plenty of time until deadline.

[dramonic]

You are correct Zaz, him = IKD.

I'm just saying when I remove my current town reads from the field of suspect, lynching IKD is a 66% win chance anyways, so I could go for his lynch if push comes to shove.

[dramonic]

I realize this is Dram's question, but I believe he already answered it in post 109, so I'll put in some input as well.
Bandwagoning is scummy when you are doing it just to have a vote on and to increase the votes on someone else. It makes it look like you don't actually have a reason to vote and as if you don't care who is lynched. And all protown players *should* care who is lynched, and therefore shouldn't bandwagon because someone could by mislynched before they can provide a defense.

What type of defense can you even bring up in a lover game? it's not like you can claim or anything <<

[imkingdavid]

I realize this is Dram's question, but I believe he already answered it in post 109, so I'll put in some input as well.
Bandwagoning is scummy when you are doing it just to have a vote on and to increase the votes on someone else. It makes it look like you don't actually have a reason to vote and as if you don't care who is lynched. And all protown players *should* care who is lynched, and therefore shouldn't bandwagon because someone could by mislynched before they can provide a defense.

What type of defense can you even bring up in a lover game? it's not like you can claim or anything <<

So are you saying that no one should defend themselves but should just let people bandwagon them up to a lynch? How does that help the town win?

[dramonic]

Not what I meant. I'm just saying it's harder to convince people not to lynch you in a lover game.

[Sanjay]

imkingdavid, if you had to lynch someone right now, who would you lynch?

[ZazieR]

To contrast it with 12Keyblade's show of caution, 12Keyblade was cautious about people being put at L-2. That's a lot more eye catching than this imkingdavid post.

I'll wait with responding to the 12KB part as he has yet to respond to my posts. However, what David did is scummy. Why? Let's look back:
(The following bit is edited in a Zazie-way)
-First, we had 12KB at L-1. David:
'Already a bandwagon O.o? Please don't have a lynch yet.'
-Secondly, Sanjay for the first time at L-1. David:
'Zwet, don't behave Zwetish. We shouldn't have a lynch yet, because we only have 4 (?) days.'
-But at Sanjay's second L-1... David:
'Zaz, don't act Zazish. Also, here are my answers.'

Not one comment about the L-1. And the strangest thing about it is that the first two L-1 came during the time he thought it would take four days according to him, while the last situation came after the clarification.
Add that he has now stated that he don't like mindless bandwagoning. And if you look back at my post in which I voted Sanjay, what should the impression have been? Yet, he gave no comment on it whatsoever.

1. I am puzzled how he forgot the mafia were lovers ESPECIALLY after 12Keyblade made the post about forgetting about the lovers. I am generally a little skeptical that anyone in this game would forget about that, since it is the whole theme of the game, but imkingdavid's post seems especially weird.

Answer: David faked it.

2. If imkingdavid is scum and is trying to pretend he forgot the mafia were lovers, it seems like a very crafty way to do it (speculating that there are 4 days left to kill mafia). I suppose if 12Keyblade was town imkingdavid might have gotten the idea to forget that there were mafia as well, but if this were the case it seems like it would be a lot easier for him to just use it as evidence against 12Keyblade and go for his lynch, rather than trying to copy him.

Though I suppose that if he is scum he has access to daytalk so he could get his partner to go after 12Keyblade, but that seems like a bad strategy to go after someone else for the same thing your partner is doing. Plus if this were the case I would not have expected imkingdavid to be clueless about why it is scummy in the first place.

Answer: Given in the second paragraph of the above quote.
Suspect both, try and get 12KB lynched and the partner can then state that the action of forgetting about the lovers is less suspicious now as a townie did it already.

3. I don't know why imkingdavid doesn't find 12Keyblade scummy for posting about not knowing the mafia were lovers. He seems to be abandoning it as a valid piece of evidence altogether, even if he

Rephrase?

ZazieR, was the ORLY? part of 85 a serious question or should I just answer that with YA RLY or something?

I want to know which of the two was the case. Did you want to vote me or not?