Minvitational Game 2

[Antrax]

So is your insistence that we shouldn't vote until you say we can a mistake, or a strategy to buy you time?

Again, mith cracks the case. You see, I'm trying to waste time, because uh, I'm the super mafia time bomb, so if can make the day last 2 weeks, I auto-win this game and the next two, as well. Mafia have nothing to gain from long days with a lot of discussion, so by trying to prolong the day, I've obviously convicted myself of being mafia. Logic!

Funny, coming from someone who ignores others posts (the reasoning behind voting for Werebear yesterday, for example).

Of course! You posted one word "random", and I should've realised straight away that as opposed to the dictionary meaning of the word, it actually stands for "Rotten Arbitary Neo-Doofus or Mafia", which means he's either very stupid, or mafia, and be convinced straight away.

I was hoping someone else would show an opinion on the matter.

A good start is to stop flooding the thread. People are discouraged from reading your posts (and mine, for that matter), because you make them too long and pretend you don't understand basic concepts in logic and math. It's not bad strategy if you're scum, which I suspect you are.

There is *very little* chance of you getting lynched quickly by the Mafia, and the fact that I think you are scum outweighs the whole Japanese ass-shooting probability.

And again, skillful play is thrown to the wind in face of the legendary mith, who is never wrong, and thus never needs take precaution.

I don't see anyone agreeing with you about me, at least.

I assure you people would realise you're scum if they bothered reading what you write. Apparently, few do. Has to do with your purposely flooding, or something.

You're just ranting about how stupid it is because it's you, not because I'm being hasty.

Lies. I've ranted against speed before. Speed cost the town games in the past. Remember alien mafia?

Yes, as scum. Isn't that what we're supposed to do?

And here's the real source of disagreement. I try to explain my motives for voting, to give people a chance to challenge them. You obviously use your magic skills to figure out who's mafia, and then just do anything to try to lynch them, even if it involves blatant lying. Okay. Different strategies, I think yours is damaging and thus you win my vote.

Yes, because you saying it's perfectly mathematical makes it perfectly correct as well. *~rolls eyes~*

Uh, yes. If you accept the basic assumptions, the conclusion follows logically. You, of course, chose to decide there's no risk in voting hastily, because you don't like the conclusion, but I wonder if the other players in the game share your opinion.

Now everyone has all this crap from you to look over, so they can decide for themselves. I'm happy with that. Let the people decide.

Only you've been inflating this "crap" into monstrous proportions, to discourage people from reading, posting, or doing much of anything. Good job, I'd've never believed it might work for you in this game.

He is generally less concerned about surviving and more concerned about being right at the end of the game.

I'm "paranoid' about being lynched, so I'm

not concerned

about being lynched, so I'm mafia? What?

Antrax

[Antrax]

And now, a quick recap of mith vs. me:
1. You led the bandwagon of an innocent.
So what? 5 other people pushed the wagon. I don't see you jumping on them. Why is leading worse than being the last vote, or being the middle vote? All it shows is that I actually try to think for myself.

2. Not taking responsibility for said bandwagon, and instead passing it off as "oh well, he shouldn't have been so suspicious, not my fault".
See point #1. This is wrong both metagame-wise, and in this game.

3. General paranoia over people voting for you, and other things mentioned above.
Can't defend against that, for obvious reasons. What to accuse me I'm in denial, as well?

4. Accusing me (and DP) of hastiness.
So you deny being hasty? Does DP deny being vindictive? Since when is an accusation a sign of being mafia, especially when it's simply correct?

5. Hunch.
Oh yeah, the magic bowels strike again.

6. Missing obvious things (IMO), ties into 4 mostly.
Actually, I believe you're the one missing the obvious things, and are doing it on purpose, and are concealing it in huge posts so people will be too lazy to realise you're simply lying.

Antrax

[mith]

Which I've explained thoroughly.

And I've countered equally (well, more, only you're going to rely on the old lots-of-words=lots-of-crap argument, I see) thoroughly.

Quote:
Yesterday, you made some post about how

you thought people would come after you for defending Werebear even though you hadn't

, which seemed really bizzare to me since, at that point, you were perhaps the *least* convinced of Werebear's innocence

Here's that part of that post:
Quote:

Okay, I will.

Suppose Werebear is lying scum? Then people go back, "aha, Antrax defended him, die die die suck scum". Only I haven't defended Werebear

, I've attacked a person I thought is mafia. I have no idea about Werebear's guilt or innocence, but I know we'll know tomorrow for sure.

You really need to stop counting on me being too lazy to reply to plain lies.

Someone please explain what the hell he's talking about here. I said you thought people would come after you for defending Werebear, even though you hadn't defended Werebear, and you bolded part of your post saying you hadn't defended Werebear. ???

Ignoring a lot of fluff, where Antrax ignores my most of my argument against me being at all hasty. Oh there's, this:

There was more of this, but it's obvious mith is ignoring the amazing idea of discussing WITHOUT voting until the end. You know, just like EVERY SINGLE GAME IN REAL LIFE goes. What a wacky person that Antrax is.

Now tell me Antrax, when, in *any* Mafia game, has anyone (other than possibly you) ever held off casting a second vote with 5 needed because it would be hasty? Hm? You certainly have no qualms about voting before "the end".

I haven't been ignoring *anything* in your posts. Isn't that one of your complaints? I've responded to every single one of your points. Let me go pull one up that, yes, I would say is the main bit, and yes, which you ignored most of. You got the first part, but not the rest. Let's try again.

Quote:
And the one thing slimmer than the chance of them existing, is the absolutely NOTHING you benefit from voting me right now.

Wrong

. What I gain nothing from is sitting here for two days waiting for a Cop to come out, and then *not* doing anything when nothing happens. What I gain nothing from is letting someone I think is scum try to convince everyone that voting for him is bad just because voting in general is bad, when I know perfectly well he's just trying to save his own skin. What I gain nothing from is believing these fantasies you have about being a Japanese schoolgirl rather than concentrating on actual evidence.

You see, I'm voting for someone I'm convinced is scum. So are you; that's why, rather than making a strongly worded post saying "Gee, I think mith is scum", you just voted for me (that, or you're scum, of course). In Mafia, you

vote

for people.

Clearly this new method of voting for people you think are guilty hasn't led to a quick lynch. It was never going to.

Quote:

Funny, coming from someone who ignores others posts (the reasoning behind voting for Werebear yesterday, for example).

Of course! You posted one word "random", and I should've realised straight away that as opposed to the dictionary meaning of the word, it actually stands for "Rotten Arbitary Neo-Doofus or Mafia", which means he's either very stupid, or mafia, and be convinced straight away.

Ok, this is the second time you've completely missed/overlooked something about this particular point. Allow me to bold it so you won't miss it yet again.

Sofis and jeep both voted Werebear immediately after I did, giving the same reasoning that I had in mind. Whether you could gather that reasoning from two word comment is completely irrelevant, since the reasoning was posted by others.

I also never said you should be convinced by this logic, or that I now thought Werebear was scum. The entire point of me even bringing it up yesterday was that you said Quailman was casting a fifth vote for no reason, and I said he had reason if you bothered to read other people's posts (not mine!).

Lies. I've ranted against speed before. Speed cost the town games in the past. Remember alien mafia?

Actually, speed cost you your life in that game, it didn't cost the town the game. What cost the town the game was CF not responding for almost a week.

I try to explain my motives for voting, to give people a chance to challenge them. You obviously use your magic skills to figure out who's mafia, and then just do anything to try to lynch them

Um, no. Let's go over the facts, shall we?

I posted 7 times *before* voting for you, two mentioned suspicion of you. Mostly, I Was discussing whether the Cop should come out. (Interesting side-note. I argued against you calling DP's vote a hasty vote. If I were Mafia, why would I draw all this attention to myself by allowing you to make the same claim on me?)
On the third RL day of this day, I finally voted. I said I would explain my reasoning when I got home. You freaked. You also, as I just now noticed, urged the Cop to come out, ignoring the entire Cop-coming-out-logic that Sofis and I (and others) had been discussing. Incidentally, I *would* charactize this as a Mafia move, because I did something similar in game 1.
I posted my reasoning.
You responded, by quoting most everything I said.
I responded, by quoting most everything you said.
...

You see why it got long?

Anyway, point. I had plenty of reasoning. You just give me more every time you post.

Uh, yes. If you accept the basic assumptions, the conclusion follows logically. You, of course, chose to decide there's no risk in voting hastily, because you don't like the conclusion, but I wonder if the other players in the game share your opinion.

And this is exactly what I've been asking them. I know IS thought you flipped out in your initial post after my vote, so I can't imagine him agreeing that my vote was hasty. Sofis is voting for you, so I doubt he'd agree either. DP, of course, would not agree, but he's probably scum so I won't count on that to sway you. Anyway, that's 4 thinking you're full of it. Want a true majority?

Only you've been inflating this "crap" into monstrous proportions, to discourage people from reading, posting, or doing much of anything. Good job, I'd've never believed it might work for you in this game.

Not any more than you, really. Your three posts combined come in at 1250 words. Your post back on page three was getting close to 1000. Is it that surprising that when I quote someone's entire post, I double the size? I only do it because you give me so much crap to respond to.

Anyway, I'll leave it at that, since you people seem to hate long arguments. I believe I've come in at just under 1200 for this one. Whee.

[mith]

Actually, one more small thing, and I want you to respond to this, Antrax, you can ignore the entire post if you'll answer this.

Why are you voting for me, if we should hold our votes til "the end"?

[Antrax]

Because I'm convinced you and your goons are trying to get me lynched, and thus there's no chance of sudden mafia invasion of my bandwagon.
Because DP has 4 votes after someone with a role accused him.
Because handicapping myself when nobody else seems to be following it (even though nobody made a single explanation of why I'm wrong) is bad play, on my part. It's useless to be the only righteous man if all it means is that your purpose is lost in the mob.

Why aren't you defending your 6-point arguement against me? Isn't that the summary of all the bad and evil things I'm apparently guilty of? Why are you still continuing the 1000-word posts?
Antrax

[mith]

Because I'm convinced you and your goons are trying to get me lynched, and thus there's no chance of sudden mafia invasion of my bandwagon.

And I'm convinced you're Mafia, thus there's no chance of a sudden Mafia invasion of my bandwagon, either. Come on, Antrax, this is ridiculous, you just told me I wasn't allowed to bypass your impeccable logic just because I think you're scum.

Because DP has 4 votes after someone with a role accused him.
Because handicapping myself when nobody else seems to be following it (even though nobody made a single explanation of why I'm wrong) is bad play, on my part. It's useless to be the only righteous man if all it means is that your purpose is lost in the mob.

To quote the brilliant logician, referee,

No way

. You voted for me

before anyone voted for DP

. You accuse me of lying? Please.

And no one has explained why you're wrong? Do I even need to comment on that? Come on, this is just pathetic.

Why aren't you defending your 6-point arguement against me? Isn't that the summary of all the bad and evil things I'm apparently guilty of? Why are you still continuing the 1000-word posts?

Um, to the last question, I was responding to *your* 1200 words. I didn't get to the last post because I was trying to keep it shorter than 2000 words (and because I was running late for church). We've already been over all the arguments anyway, I've responded to every single thing you made in that last post.

To summarize, stop acting like the God of the meta-game. I've spent over two years thinking about this stuff, I'm quite solid in Mafia logic. Do you want a repeat of the random vote argument from Newbie 4? I wasn't being hasty, you're yet again trying to tell people how to play, you hide behind "logic", refusing to listen to other people's arguments (unless you like them, of course), even though they are generally better thought out than your own. And you smell funny. Ok, maybe not that last.

[Antrax]

And no one has explained why you're wrong? Do I even need to comment on that? Come on, this is just pathetic.

And the great thing about you, mith, is that you actually believe this is a retort. And that allows you to always claim you've responded to all my points, when in fact all you've done was posted some text after it, which might or might not relate to what you've quoted.

As for being "full of it", let's see who we have against me:
you, the scum.
DP, the vindictive voter.
IS, the bandwagon pusher, who said himself he's voting for me just because I'm funny.
Sofis the silent, about whom I always wonder, why does he bother to play.
Yeah, I feel bad to have this crack team of experts all feeling I'm full of it. It's about as offensive as having a group of KKK calling me a stupid racist.
Antrax

[mith]

Heh, way to defend yourself against my post. You completely ignore that your reasoning for voting for me is:

1. Hypocritical
2. A Big Fat Lie

And instead concentrate on the idea that half the town are idiots. Well done.

[Antrax]

I'll defend against it once you show HOW it's "hypocritical" and "a big fat lie". I'm working on the technique of ignoring what the other person says, obviously mastered by you in the two years you've dedicated to online mafia.
Antrax

[mith]

Ah, the old "I know you are but what am I." What are you, 5?

I know you didn't ignore the post, and it wasn't even long, a mere 355 words. Surely you can handle that much reading.

[Antrax]

I read it thoroughly; I'm still at a loss how it says I'm a hypocrite or a big fat liar. Big yeah, but I'm on a diet and lying is bad for your skin.
Antrax

[Internet Stranger]

Is there a reason why DP isnt lynched yet?

[Antrax]

I'm waiting for Samadhi to confirm there's no possible way he could've misunderstand his role or be an insane cop or what have you. As opposed to others, I kinda like playing cautiously.
Antrax

[Samadhi]

I'm waiting for Samadhi to confirm there's no possible way he could've misunderstand his role or be an insane cop or what have you.

Where did you ask that? Was it cramed in the middle of your 12th or 13th rant?

Antrax, do you think I would have taped Werebear's shotgun to my head if I thought there was any possibility that DP is actually a townie? No, I am certain that DP is not a townie.

[Antrax]

"not a townie" or mafia? This is crucial.
Antrax

[Antrax]

I've read all your posts again, the first says you're 100% sure DP is scum, the next says "Werebear won't shoot me, DP isn't a townie", and now you're saying he's not a townie again. If he's the fabled cop, we're losing this game right here, right now (assuming you're not mafia and Werebear shoots you for being wrong). Then again, as I'm typing this, I realise that if he's the cop, you can't be anything other than mafia, because 1 cop, 1 doc and 1 vigilante in a game that has 3 mafia tops is already strong, another good role would tip the scales too much.

vote: DP

Antrax

[Antrax]

Oh yeah. Werebear, assuming Samadhi's not wrong, shoot mith, he's so scum it hurts. Take the time to read his posts (and mine, the interaction is crucial), I'm sure it'll become evident to you.
Antrax

[Internet Stranger]

Werebear knows who to shoot.

[Werebear]

Where the hell are DP, mole, and Sofis? Am I playing this mafia with just Antrax and mith? I'll shoot

myself

if I am.

Werebear

[mith]

Everyone sees where Antrax lied, right? I'm not dreaming this?

*~wanders off to sleep~*

[mole]

For once, I agree with IS.

Werebear knows who to shoot.

[quercitron]

The Town drags Dragon Phoenix to his house, also white, and gets out the shotgun. Then they realize that Quailman's house hasn't been washed yet, so they might as well use it for further executions. Aiming the shotgun at DP's heart, someone asks him if he has any last words.

DP thinks for a second. "I'll let God (the Moderator) make some for me," he says. God channels through DP and says...

"I am not Somini Mafia."

Oh no! God can't make a false statement! But wait! God's not done!

"Er...well, technically not. I mean, I like the Mafia, and I want to join them. And I tore up this nifty certificate, and sprinkled blood on it, too! And I...er...damn."

BOOM.

Dragon Phoenix (

Bernini Mafia Traitor

) has been "lynched."

(Explanation: DP was a regular Traitor but, as I'm trying to maintain some continuity, was in the game a disgruntled Bernini sympathizer who had heard about the devastation in Town One and...yeah...you get it.

And now you know what one of the Torn Certificates is about, too. Yay.)

IT IS NOW NIGHT 3. SEND CHOICES.

[quercitron]

The Town awakens in the middle of the Night to a horrible ruckus in the middle of the square. What is it? you ask. I'll tell you.

It's Antrax and Samadhi arguing. And it's horrible.

"Gut!"

"Bowels!"

"Gut!"

"Bowels!"

"Gut bowels!"

"Er..." And Antrax, unable to come up with a suitable comeback (yeah, the Mod wishes,) pulls out a gun and shoots Samadhi in the face. Samadhi, belonging to the

Cult of Apathy

, is rather apathetic about dying.

Antrax, revealed as a

Somini Mafioso

by the whole "shooting other players in the face" idea, is not as ambivalent when a shotgun blast takes him out.

Samadhi (Cultist) - killed by the Somini Mafia
Antrax (Somini Mafioso) - killed by a shotgun blast

The Town rejoices! (to answer the inevitable question, the Cult of Apathy wins only if all living players are members of the Cult, so you can consider them good or evil as you like.)

Alive (5)

Internet Stranger
mith
mole
Sofis
Werebear

IT IS NOW DAY 3. THREE TO LYNCH.

[Antrax]

Oddity. Something doesn't quite sit here. ~watches the game~
Antrax

[mith]

Aha, there was a cult. So that's how Samadhi knew.

And I was right. Die Antrax die. Way to go Werebear, doing your job.

Now then. What do we do about the cult? If we treat them as good, we could just have them recruit us, effectively making a Mason group that Mafia can't be recruited into. There should be one scum left, with one confirmed innocent. What should the Cult do? Actually, there may've just been the one cult, we've had two torn certificates, and quercitron credited one to DP. I'm so confused.