Team Mafia 2018: Game 3 - Random GIFs Game Over

[Mathdino]

I'm not trying to 1v1 LLD I just want her to quote the 2 posts in question between you and skirt and say why skirts is bad (or just quote the 2 posts and I'll go look at her reasons again) because I clearly thought it was the wrong post.
Also how dare you call me derptown I'm offended!

Misunderstanding my logic (or being opposed to probabilistic reasoning in general) often strikes me as a towntell. Scum are afraid to get in logical arguments with me that they could lose.

And I'm referring to the LLD vs skirt 1v1 moreso. I don't want that to take up the entire early game. Knowing LLD it has the potential to turn into some gladiator match. Tbh I was gonna purposefully stop posting for a bit so we could get others but I couldn't resist responding to shit

[Lady Lambdadelta]

I would take scum if we rolled scum (lol we all rolled town I stg not that you know that) if we valued winning over everything because I have a significantly better scum wr than my team afaik, but I wouldn't if we were playing more socially and for fun.

I adamantly believe Keychain and Dunker are town off of this game, Radja I guess I agree. Bins from what I remember hates scum so yea that's fine too. Don't know CDB or T-Bone play-wise at all so no comment.

UCV... I guess. No clue for bulba. LLD, A50, Smoke, definitely realistic for scum. I haven't actually seen A50s scum game I don't think, but iirc Chara said A50 is their scummer?

There are others in the string of posts that are kind of in the same offensive vein, but this is the post that is most damning to me.

I dislike his reads on the meta part of "player would take ____" but I hate everyone who would do that I don't see anything in this post that pings me like "SCUM SCUM SCUM" tell me a bit more detail?

...yes. And I know I'm not alone in that because this is very agreed upon Team Mafia logic. When people can choose their alignments, it changes things.

You're reading wayyy too far into it. An early vote/wagon is intended to generate pressure. This forces the target to generate readable content. From the standpoint of my very first post, knowing nothing about the gamestate, A50 seemed by far the most likely person to be scum. Because of any team, I believe his has the most skill differential in scumplay.

I guess I can somewhat understand this view point I still dislike the standpoint of the read I guess the only thing that will help fix this issue is see how you progress with this almost50 read
Pedit: LLD I will happily listen to you we clearly misunderstood what post (or I did) was in question here. I don't think anyone has gone like "haha don't listen to LLD"

Happy to reiterate.

As explained earlier, the difference that startled me between Mathdino and SkirtSkirt is CONVICTION. You can tell that whether Mathdino puts much stock in these early game meta reads or not, this is what he believes and he stands behind it. This is what I expect town to do in this position, in this game, with that post.

SkirtSkirt does NOT hold that same tonal conviction. He doesn't show that same kind of presentation of his reads, he won't live or die by them and that's reasonable given they're early meta reads but it strikes me that despite being "Reasonable" this is how I would expect scum to handle that particular position. They would play safer, and not get locked down in those meta reads. It gives them something to point back to, to say "I have a progression of reads, starting with some early suspicion here" but not actually commiting anything.

Whether anyone would actually call them out for commiting to something they felt was wrong is irrelevant here. It is whether scum would be concerned this would happen. Scum are far more paranoid than town with this kind of action, especially early.

That's the problem. That'[s why Math is town and Skirt isn't, in my mind.

[Elena Fisher]

I would take scum if we rolled scum (lol we all rolled town I stg not that you know that) if we valued winning over everything because I have a significantly better scum wr than my team afaik, but I wouldn't if we were playing more socially and for fun.

I adamantly believe Keychain and Dunker are town off of this game, Radja I guess I agree. Bins from what I remember hates scum so yea that's fine too. Don't know CDB or T-Bone play-wise at all so no comment.

UCV... I guess. No clue for bulba. LLD, A50, Smoke, definitely realistic for scum. I haven't actually seen A50s scum game I don't think, but iirc Chara said A50 is their scummer?

There are others in the string of posts that are kind of in the same offensive vein, but this is the post that is most damning to me.

I dislike his reads on the meta part of "player would take ____" but I hate everyone who would do that I don't see anything in this post that pings me like "SCUM SCUM SCUM" tell me a bit more detail?

...yes. And I know I'm not alone in that because this is very agreed upon Team Mafia logic. When people can choose their alignments, it changes things.

You're reading wayyy too far into it. An early vote/wagon is intended to generate pressure. This forces the target to generate readable content. From the standpoint of my very first post, knowing nothing about the gamestate, A50 seemed by far the most likely person to be scum. Because of any team, I believe his has the most skill differential in scumplay.

I guess I can somewhat understand this view point I still dislike the standpoint of the read I guess the only thing that will help fix this issue is see how you progress with this almost50 read
Pedit: LLD I will happily listen to you we clearly misunderstood what post (or I did) was in question here. I don't think anyone has gone like "haha don't listen to LLD"

Happy to reiterate.

As explained earlier, the difference that startled me between Mathdino and SkirtSkirt is CONVICTION. You can tell that whether Mathdino puts much stock in these early game meta reads or not, this is what he believes and he stands behind it. This is what I expect town to do in this position, in this game, with that post.

SkirtSkirt does NOT hold that same tonal conviction. He doesn't show that same kind of presentation of his reads, he won't live or die by them and that's reasonable given they're early meta reads but it strikes me that despite being "Reasonable" this is how I would expect scum to handle that particular position. They would play safer, and not get locked down in those meta reads. It gives them something to point back to, to say "I have a progression of reads, starting with some early suspicion here" but not actually commiting anything.

Whether anyone would actually call them out for commiting to something they felt was wrong is irrelevant here. It is whether scum would be concerned this would happen. Scum are far more paranoid than town with this kind of action, especially early.

That's the problem. That'[s why Math is town and Skirt isn't, in my mind.

Alright thank you I fully understand your view point on this now
UNVOTE:
Hrm I need to rethink I dislike where my mind is taking me with this stance on the game but I'll wait for others to check in

[Elena Fisher]

I'm not trying to 1v1 LLD I just want her to quote the 2 posts in question between you and skirt and say why skirts is bad (or just quote the 2 posts and I'll go look at her reasons again) because I clearly thought it was the wrong post.
Also how dare you call me derptown I'm offended!

Misunderstanding my logic (or being opposed to probabilistic reasoning in general) often strikes me as a towntell. Scum are afraid to get in logical arguments with me that they could lose.

And I'm referring to the LLD vs skirt 1v1 moreso. I don't want that to take up the entire early game. Knowing LLD it has the potential to turn into some gladiator match. Tbh I was gonna purposefully stop posting for a bit so we could get others but I couldn't resist responding to shit

Side note I know what you mean but part of me has the urge to get in a debate with you because I love talking theory so much but this isn't the game time or place

sigh

a girl can dream.

[Mathdino]

The more I play the more people refer to me as the setup spec/numbers guy. I'm happy to talk theory with you. On a more wincon-related note (as opposed to pride-related), this helps us sort each other.

And seriously if you're quoting a post with a quote inside it, just edit out that inside quote.

inb4 this becomes a 2013 thread with back and forth walls everywhere

[Mathdino]

I TAKE BACK WHAT I SAID: CLAIMING YOU GOT 5 TOWN PMs IS NOT A SCUMCLAIM

My bad, sorry guys. Ignore all of that.

If I need to I'll explain what I was thinking way later in the game but that line of thought has no benefit right now.

[Bins]

I'm very confused as to why skirt's teammates weren't actively following this game in particular.

@Elena

: In a team of high quality scum players, I agree that someone likely to take scum would purposefully avoid it (that's actually why some are avoiding voting LLD; I'm confused why you jumped on anyway). HOWEVER, in the case of a high skill differential between players, when there's really a single obvious choice for scum on a team, I think that's worth pursuing. A50 is better at scum than his teammates. Anyone else playing scum here would likely flounder. There's a 66% chance his team got a scum role PM and as an INITIAL VOTE in the FIRST POST OF THE GAME when ONLY SIX PEOPLE HAD POSTED I think that's a fair vote. I'm not gonna switch until I see content.

I don't understand what's convenient about that post. It's literally what I was thinking and what I'd been talking to my teammates about. I also have a tendency of getting buddied by rational-type players and then getting pocketed, so.

You also didn't read the italics. Yes, if anyone asks "how many scum role PMs did you get" the answer is always "0". THE PROBLEM is using the logic of "I'm town because we got 5 town role PMs, but I would've taken scum if we got any of those".

Do you see no issue with going out of your way to say that?

The last part of this post gets me all tingly. Everyone got all town role PMs, of course. Definitely.
The people who actually claim it and use it as a defence are suspicious.

I’m going to vote Skirt for calling me meh! Who does that?
Hi all!


And hi Math! I don’t prefer town or scum. When I wrote my GTKAS I think I preferred scum because I was winning a bunch of games as scum and losing a bunch as town. Then I proceeded to roll 200 scum games in a row, which is why I was frustrated and started to hate it.

Which also gives me to a good point about Keychain. They may prefer town but they are darn good as scum. This is Team Tryhard Mafia. You play what you’re good at.

[Bins]

Still reading up. Slow reader.

[Bins]

I TAKE BACK WHAT I SAID: CLAIMING YOU GOT 5 TOWN PMs IS NOT A SCUMCLAIM

My bad, sorry guys. Ignore all of that.

If I need to I'll explain what I was thinking way later in the game but that line of thought has no benefit right now.

wtf don’t do this to me

[Mathdino]

Hey Bins! Glad to finally see you play

I specifically made that argument in reference to LLD opening by arguing that had her team gotten scum, she'd have taken it, but they didn't.

The problem with the Keychain argument is that she also presumably wants to watch and advise 4 other games. This is hard when you're uncomfortable with your own.

[Mathdino]

Go with it Bins, trust me. That topic is still a work in progress.

It's not a scumclaim but it is tingly. Preemptive self defence is a scumtell in general. This is a specific form.

[Bins]

I was going to shut down meta/preference talk because I thought it’d be mostly WIFOM, but it seems it serves like a decent RVS.

[Elena Fisher]

I also claim really great at scum

[Mathdino]

I, as a point of egotism, claim better at scum than I really am.

Bins you forgot to vote

Also please read Smocaine for me thanks

[Bins]

I also claim really great at scum

IS THIS MARIA?


True.
I used to be good but I feel I’m just always lynched and scumread even as town now.

[Elena Fisher]

I also claim really great at scum

IS THIS MARIA?


True.
I used to be good but I feel I’m just always lynched and scumread even as town now.

Yes this is Maria Maki/Sonia hi bins! Still the host of my first ever scum game <3

(Why are you playing on Elena people who know me might ask)
Elena is what I consider my "tryhard account" quote on quote

[Bins]

I, as a point of egotism, claim better at scum than I really am.

Bins you forgot to vote

Also please read Smocaine for me thanks

Don’t know much about da smoke cane scum game. Hi Smocaine! Send more cryptic pictures of coffee.

Not sure who to vote yet.

Are you trying to say LLD is or isn’t scumtelling rn? What’s the verdict?

Also, I’m terrified of the prospect of a Math scumgame if it looks like this.

pedit - yeah I sense a lot of tryharding in the air right now.

[Mathdino]

Ohhh right that's who you are

Mafia role and/or alignment? I always pref to flip mafia and my fav role is Bodyguard or Universal Backup
Moment in a mafia and/or mish-mash game? Has to be my first scum game where I had half the town fooled but the one person who didn't tr me was the cop who got last pick and outted a guilty on me and a few people still thought he was scum over me.

I thought thisd be relevant when I saw this looking through GTKAS xD

[Mathdino]

I say nothing yet. We should evaluate LLD on other things for now. Imma get back to you if teammates think that point is really worth it.

Math scumgame is try hard but like I'm pretty sure I scumtell all over the goddamn place

Like I'm pretty sure opens and newbies can't tell but given this caliber of tonereaders (I still don't understand tonereaders) I'd avoid scum like the plague.

If you wanna peruse Jester Nightless, that's my scumgame.

[ChannelDelibird]

LLD: My preliminary lunch-break skimread of the skirt stuff is that it’s weird that he’s acting like his who-picked-scum theorising started here in this thread rather than in his team PT. Your criticism of his levels of conviction is reasonable. Caveat: I don’t know him at all and I can’t remember if I know anything about his team. Agree that mathdino looks very town.

More in-depth read of the game coming this evening as promised.

[Bins]

Why pick town then, Elena?

[Elena Fisher]

Why pick town then, Elena?

As the "captain" I thought it be best I take whatever was left and I got this.

[Bins]

LLD: My preliminary lunch-break skimread of the skirt stuff is that it’s weird that he’s acting like his who-picked-scum theorising started here in this thread rather than in his team PT. Your criticism of his levels of conviction is reasonable. Caveat: I don’t know him at all and I can’t remember if I know anything about his team. Agree that mathdino looks very town.

More in-depth read of the game coming this evening as promised.

Ah, god. The amount I want Mathdino to be town.

VOTE: skirt
No second skirt for you.

I have other suspects but they haven't posted yet and I feel I should give them the chance to do that.

The reason I don't like the "My entire team rolled town" is because I just can't trust it. No one should trust it and I don't think it's worth saying, even if your team did roll all town. Just based on numbers and odds, it's not going to help you. And it definitely isn't a good defence. When I draw out my table and my reads, no matter what you say, I'm going to start with the idea that each team has one scum unless my reads prove otherwise.

There are three situations here:

1) You aren't lying and everyone on your team is scum.
2) You are lying and you are town and someone on your team is scum. You're trying to save their ass, maybe. Pre-emptive, but sure.
3) You are lying and you are scum.

2 is the weird one because there are teams in the game that know you are lying, because they have scum partners with someone on your team. Therefore, I feel the only position you can say this in is 1/3.

Not sure if you agree with this Math, but I'm not sure.

I really don't have any townreads based on Meta on who would pick town.
I have a few better suspects but they haven't posted yet and I'd like to wait for that because I want to avoid 1v1s before I sort my thoughts. I have a lot of pages to read in other games still.

I'm also not sure I fully trust Maria. Just based on her team and who would pick scum. I need to read the other games.

[Bins]

VOTE: Almost50

I lied I don't want to vote eddie yet

[Elena Fisher]

I'm also not sure I fully trust Maria. Just based on her team and who would pick scum.

Exactly why I said I pref to be town even if I was the "fill"