Mini 581 - Andy's Death - Over

[Ythill]

Meh. It's no secret that Jenter is fairly full of shit, but I don't think it has anything to do with his role.

Earlier I was looking forward to seeing what JD would do once the theory discussion was over. The answer? Start another theory discussion. Grumble...

[Andycyca]

Vote Count:

avinashv- 3 (camisade, goborage, Ythill)
JDodge- 2 (Dave, Jenter Brolincani)
camisade- 1 (avinashv)
Ythill- 1 (JDodge)

Not voting (1): Sethaniel

5 to lynch.

[Jenter Brolincani]

You have an extremely low opinion of me, don't you Ythill?

Dodge; the second two do NOT defeat unversal tells, unless you're thinking of different Unversal Tells to me.

Arguing for anti-twn strategies is in my book the main universal scumtell, and cannont simply be a play variaton; "Oh, I just decided to try annd screw town over in this game, I'm using a varied playstyle," does not really cut the ice.

Also, lazy? I work hard from 7am-9:30pm most days. Not having time is not laziness. I genuiniely DO NOT HAVE TIME.

I agree with Ythill, though, theory discussion is completely off the point, and you still haven't in my view successfully explained why you argued for such a bad strategy.

[Ythill]

You have an extremely low opinion of me, don't you Ythill?

Not really. I mean, on a personal level I don't even know you. I simply think that your

playstyle

makes you an easy mislynch.

And, like many people, you are "full of shit" when you're in an argument. It's an ego thing. The insatiable desire to be right or something. I do the same thing and I wasn't trying to judge whether it's a good or bad thing. Just saying that I don't think it indicates your alignment.

What's strange to me is that you aren't making as many scummy moves here as the last time I played with you (where you were town). Did you change your style on purpose?

[JDodge]

You have an extremely low opinion of me, don't you Ythill?

Dodge; the second two do NOT defeat unversal tells, unless you're thinking of different Unversal Tells to me.

Arguing for anti-twn strategies is in my book the main universal scumtell, and cannont simply be a play variaton; "Oh, I just decided to try annd screw town over in this game, I'm using a varied playstyle," does not really cut the ice.

Also, lazy? I work hard from 7am-9:30pm most days. Not having time is not laziness. I genuiniely DO NOT HAVE TIME.

I agree with Ythill, though, theory discussion is completely off the point, and you still haven't in my view successfully explained why you argued for such a bad strategy.

We're working on the same definition.

If you're working hard from 7AM-9:30PM most days, then you will probably never be able to advance your mafia play anyways. So this is a greatly fruitless discussion.

[Ythill]

this is a greatly fruitless discussion.

QFT.

@ JD: Though I’m not as well-heeled here as you, I am also a fan of early game meta. If you are town, your experience is a boon to us; if you are scum, keeping you in the spotlight is good. So… Which of this game’s players do you have experience with? Can you tell us anything about them that will help us determine their alignments? Any warnings about others’ scummy-seeming bad habits? Based on your meta-play, who do you find most suspicious here?

@ Dave: What’s your read on cam? What do you think of the votes that he and avinas have on each other? What do you think of avin’s nitpicking against you?

@ Seth: What’s your read on cam? What do you think of the votes that he and avinas have on each other? Which do you prefer: the quick D1 from those other sites or the involved discussions here?

[JDodge]

Minimal experience with camisade and avin.

And a medium amount of experience with Jenter. Whom I despise playing with.

[Jenter Brolincani]

Ythill; It's the Easter Holidays and I have a freer work schedule, allowing me to put more time into games. Also I've been lynched a few times and the game iwas modding is over, so I'm freer than I was in terms of time - I had too many games on from crossreplacing to get enough people in my mafia game. So I can play a LOT better per game now hopefully. I can be quite a good player sometimes, I think, but when I'm rushed I make mistakes and slips and so on...

I love you too, JDodge.

[Dave]

@ Dave: What’s your read on cam? What do you think of the votes that he and avinas have on each other? What do you think of avin’s nitpicking against you?

Well, I agree with him when he said Jdodge should not be lynched back on page 2, but since then he has been in disagreement with avinashv. I am thinking he is town. Regarding the votes, i agree with Cam, i still see no advantage for a massclaim, and Cam is voting avin for defending Jdodge for suggesting that.



I know he needs to nitpick against me to win, and try and find scumtells, but i think he is making a big deal out of a minor thing, Ythill, and Jenter agree that i comment on relevant topics and answered questions, so i am not really lurking although i dont post as much as other players, yet i explained that i pick my words with care, i think he is trying to make players look scummy in his posts, and over exaggerating matters.

@Dave -- lurkers are bad enough, but one who seems to think it is alright is even worse. As a pro-town play, that was a huge no-no, and as a scum play that seemed to be a tell.

FoS: Dave

.

[Ythill]

Thanks for your answers everyone. JD, do you have any advice stemming from your meta experience with Jenter, cam, and/or avin?

I am going out of town on business this week. Will be bringing the laptop and should have internet access at my hotel, but I may have even less time for games.

Please consider me LA from 4/7 until 4/11, just in case.

[JDodge]

I don't share meta info. Personal policy.

[Ythill]

You are aware this is a team game, right? Does your policy stem from the fact that you don't want people to learn their own tells?

[camisade]

just got back from my trip. I'll post later tonight

[JDodge]

You are aware this is a team game, right? Does your policy stem from the fact that you don't want people to learn their own tells?

REALLY I HAD NO IDEA THIS WAS A TEAM GAME EVEN THOUGH I'VE BEEN HERE FOR 2 AND TWO-THIRDS OF A YEAR.

Yes. Yes it does.

[Ythill]

LOL @ JD.

[goborage]

I don't share meta info. Personal policy.

You are aware this is a team game, right? Does your policy stem from the fact that you don't want people to learn their own tells?

Not sharing meta info is standard policy isn't it? If we're adhering to the game's reality then we wouldn't have access to that info.

[avinashv]

@Senthaniel - you completely avoided my question.

@Dave - I do need to nitpick, and honestly, I didn't make *that* much of a deal about your not posting. I stand by that you originally came off as a happy camper lurking away in the background, but if you're here and posting when you think it's relevant, I guess that's better than nothing. Try making some posts without being asked to.

@camisade and whoever else commented about my post on JD's playstyle -- his playstyle is hard to get a read on. From what little meta-gaming I've done and from what minimal experience I've had in a game with him, I haven't been able to get a read. For the moment, there are people who are, to me, far scummier. Again, I've said this already: I don't have a read on JD because of his playstyle. It seems more statistically likely that he is town than scum.

@camisade: you're taking my words out of context. I said that you called JDodge your #1 suspect, but voted me. I wasn't saying he is lynch-worthy for *me*, but based on what I read from your previous posts, for *you*. I hope that's clear; yes, I think that was a misunderstanding.

@Yhthill -- re: 83. No, I've never discussed this on MS. Feel free to look at every post I've made on this site. I had no intentions of any sort, I was simply agreeing with JD because people were making kind of strange arguments (all of which, by now, have either been fixed or finished off). I never tried to push or incite anything, rather, I was forced to make my argument valid against you (that's a collective you).

re: 84 You say I am scumhunting, and then go ahead and vote for me. Again with the buddying to JD. As for the Jenter thing, I was making a point that his contributions up till then had been sparse. Whether that mathematical redundancy was his or not is irrelevant, it barely added to the flow of the game.

This is a strange turn of events, because the vote seems a little rash. A bit of a BW has started on me as the focus shifted away from JD, and it seems that you're trying to capitalize on that. Not much to go on, but definitely worth mentioning.

@Jenter -- firstly, it's a major peeve of mine when people feel the need to do a PBPA, include themselves and call town.

FoS: Jenter

. I find it's a scummy way to try and associate the word "town" with "Jenter". You seem to be rehashing arguments against me. The buddy-buddy with Ythill was either one of two things. (a) You're scum, and your worried that Ythill is going to out you so you're trying to get on his good side. (b) You're both scum, and you're trying to get Ythill on the town's good side. I'd have to say, based on what I've outlined in this post, that (b) is more likely right now, but I will agree that Ythill has been--for the most part--consistent and logical in his play. What I don't agree is that only pro-town players are consistent and logical. You called JD out for putting good mafia players out in the cold, but here you did just that.

[Sethaniel]

@avinas: I didn't avoid your question. It's the same as Ythill's, which I answered.

@Ythill: From a game-players standpoint, I think I like the prolonged discussion on this site. In my experience, the faster lynches seem to benefit the scum. Firstly, because it makes it a lot easier to bandwagon without raising too much suspicion, since everyone is voting quickly and without much thought at first. Secondly, because the relative lack of explanation or rationale for votes makes it harder to pick out who might be scum while looking back after the lynch.
It's less a logical game over there, and more a character-driven experience. The quicklynching feels more like a real lynch mob would probably react, voting based on emotion rather than logic.

[Dave]

@Dave - I do need to nitpick, and honestly, I didn't make *that* much of a deal about your not posting. I stand by that you originally came off as a happy camper lurking away in the background, but if you're here and posting when you think it's relevant, I guess that's better than nothing. Try making some posts without being asked to.

Gotcha. thanks for the advice.

[Jenter Brolincani]

Avin;

I just copied the list form page 1, what else shoudl I have wirtten?

Also you have opted in that post to neglect options c) and d); that I am town and Ythill is town or scum, meaning that I am a townsperson who thinks Ythill is playing in a protown manner and decides to put this in his PbPA.

This is my view is a far more serious error than calling town on oneself - you have failed to even mention obvious possiblities which include me NOT being scum, thereby trying to associate my name with being scum.

Two can play at this game.

[avinashv]

Firstly, I will apologize about the (a)/(b) thing. Obviously the possibilities that you mentioned are definitely possible, I just felt they were unlikely at that point. I should have mentioned them though, yes, and that was my bad.

This is my view is a far more serious error than calling town on oneself - you have failed to even mention obvious possiblities which include me NOT being scum, thereby trying to associate my name with being scum.

I honestly don't understand this sentence. I'm not trying to be grammar police, mind you, but I tried reading it twice and that was too much.

[Jenter Brolincani]

It should have read; This IN my view... does that help?

[avinashv]

Yes, thanks. My previous post's defense stands, then.

@Senthaniel: I just went back and looked, and apart from the similarities between my view on you with Ythill's, I don't see much rehashing. He disagrees with me on Dave, actually rehashed *my* argument on camisade later on, and takes a different approach or angle on everyone else. I'm glad I caught that, because I chalked that down to coincidence--now I know. If there's something I missed, please, point it out.

@gorborage: you haven't posted since my last PBPA on page 3.

Mod: I don't know when he last posted, but is it time for a prod yet?

@camisade: I know it's just one day late, and I've been guilty of lateness myself in other games, but where's that post?

[camisade]

@camisade: I know it's just one day late, and I've been guilty of lateness myself in other games, but where's that post?

Yeah I'm sorry; I've been busy with school and have been sick. I promise I'll post a big one later.

[camisade]

I rearead the thread, here are my thoughts. I'm not going over the massclaim thing much. That's been beaten to death.


JDodge* Your posts about the universal scumtell thing and metagaming lately seem just condescending. You said that Jenter's lack of time to metagame is laziness.

Really?

I can't spend every second I'm on the computer looking at 7 other player's post history. Not because I'm lazy, but because I'm busy and I've been sick lately.


Dave* You just seem to repeat what the majority says and lurk. Do something else, because if you're scum or not: you're useless.



Ythill* He quickly accepts JDodge's defense (which was"massclaim wins games; deal with it.") Then asks

How much of your argument was meant to trap overzealous scum?

Uhh, what? You're assuming that JDodge's massclaim debate was a trap. I questioned you on this before and you never responded, but when JDodge voted you that got your attention.You said:

However, my question suggested that there may have been (town friendly) ulterior motives for bringing up your opinion.

But it looks like your question more stated than suggested.

Sethaniel* putting J-Dodge at L-1 was stupid, but as I said before I saw it as a newbie move, not a scummy one. Post more.

avinashv* The explanation you gave about your post agreeing with Jdodge's massclaim just seemed like backpedaling, and you were rather hostile in your answer.

Ythill: I

did

think it through; don't patronize me.

I've already posted everything else about you.

Jenter Brolincani* I can't really get a read on you, nothing overtly scummy in my eyes. I do agree with your argument on metagaming. I agree with avina on this:

@Jenter -- firstly, it's a major peeve of mine when people feel the need to do a PBPA, include themselves and call town.

I don't know if I think that is scummy or not, but it definitely made my eyes roll far into the back of my head.

goborage* I'm getting fairly protown vibes; you haven't posted about much except JD & Avin and the claim thing. What is your opinion on the other players?