Mafia 84 - Crime in Cressario [GAME OVER]

[SensFan]

roflcopter - 4 (alvin95, Caboose, Lowell, Matt_S)
guy0 - 3 (armlx, EmpKing, roflcopter)
Jebus - 2 (Falcone, qwints)
Lindisfarne - 1 (Lindisfarne)
Falcone - 1 (Sineish)

Not Voting - 7 (Demon Pineapple, DynamoXI, guy0, Jebus, kerrigwen, Mana_Ku, MisterStrife)

18 alive, 9 to lynch!

[alvinz95]

Ugh, crap internet. 12 am now so post tomorrow if the internet works. Stupid comcast.

[Demon Pineapple]

I don't buy that roflcopter is necessarily scummy for provoking people, as I can see how that can be pro-town. I'll wait for something more obvious.

[Falcone]

Mod, Jebus and MisterStrife have not posted since the game started. Could you please prod them?

falcone, sure, it would be reasonable for scum to claim pgo, but if it were scum claiming pgo then i wouldn't expect all of these scummy people to be trying to discredit the claim immediately.

You see, roflcopter, this is where your logic breaks down. We now agree that it is a reasonable move for scum to claim PGO on Day 1. We also agree that it is a reasonable move for a real PGO to claim on Day 1.

I advocate to see which of those is the case here with armlx by looking at his actions and behaviour over the next day(s).

You advocate believing the claim with no reservations, since there are

"scummy people (...) trying to discredit the claim immediately"

. Thing is, immediately after the claim, you stated that it was a

"good claim"

(#11) and that armlx would live until the endgame, since

"we won't lynch him"

(#43). Therefore you cannot use the argument that "scummy" people are trying to make armlx lynchable for believing the claim, since you already stated you believed the claim and that armlx shouldn’t be lynched

before

those "scummy" people commented on the claim. Furthermore, this makes your argument against those "scummy" people rather weak, as it’s basically circular logic ("People who doubt armlx’s claim are scummy and armlx’s claim is true because scummy people doubt it").

[Mana_Ku]

My thoughts about armlx's claim.
If he really is, then I'm happy he did claim immediatly. The only problem is that we don't know if it's true.
If he's lying, he's helping himself. One of the first post after his claim was that we shouldn't lynch him or target him during the night. If more ppl agreed with this, then he would almost be immune. Luckily, this isn't the case. He should be judged due to the way he plays.
Also, I saw a game where there was a scum who had the PGO ability. The only thing was that he said that he had to target a player. When someone targeted his chosen target, he'd be killed. Was this true or not?

I'll tell more later

[kerrigwen]

Rofl, if you could couple your claims/accusations with corresponding quotes, it'd help loads. Thanks.

[Empking]

Though I overall agree with ROFL, I have to say that I don't find Falone scummy or at least not scummier than your random player.

[DynamoXI]

Personally I don't see the meaning of arguing over if he is a PGO or not. Its a good tactic either way, because If he is hes helping the town leting us know before hand, but if hes lying he could still be a vanilla townie trying to make sure mafia doesn't go after him at night.

The roflcopter thing is actually pretty funny considering the fact that rofl uses a one sided logical circle with the conclusion leading sraight back to the beginning. I dont find it scummy right now however.

[roflcopter]

falcons, when I came out in support of armlx immediately I was baiting a trap. if he were scum, I was expecting several more people to say similar things or even quote me because a town person saying that would make it safer for scum to support him. and if he were town then I was expecting a shitstorm when scum went into panic mode because another town was giving the pgo a free ride and making their prospects for ever getting rid of him much more difficult. and look what happened.

caboose i'll have to get back to you later today this handheld internet device is just too annoying right now. that's also why I haven't been using quotes for whoever asked.

[Caboose]

falcons, when I came out in support of armlx immediately I was baiting a trap. if he were scum, I was expecting several more people to say similar things or even quote me because a town person saying that would make it safer for scum to support him. and if he were town then I was expecting a shitstorm when scum went into panic mode because another town was giving the pgo a free ride and making their prospects for ever getting rid of him much more difficult. and look what happened.

So, pretty much, if you called BS on armlx's roleclaim, then you're scum?

Please tell me where the

logical

part comes in.

[qwints]

And if you supported armlx's role claim, then you would have been scum?

rofl, that dichotomy is stupid. It is very possible that town might have attacked the role claim b/c they wanted to make sure that armlx didn't get a free ride as scum or that scum might have defended a townie armlx to demonstrate correct support for a townie.

[Matt_S]

And if you supported armlx's role claim, then you would have been scum?

rofl, that dichotomy is stupid.

It is very possible that town might have attacked the role claim b/c they wanted to make sure that armlx didn't get a free ride as scum or that scum might have defended a townie armlx to demonstrate correct support for a townie.

This. Definitely this. I can't summarize my feelings any better than this. Oh, and the whole circular logic thing.

[guy0]

falcons,

when I came out in support of armlx immediately I was baiting a trap

. if he were scum, I was expecting several more people to say similar things or even quote me because a town person saying that would make it safer for scum to support him. and if he were town then I was expecting a shitstorm when scum went into panic mode because another town was giving the pgo a free ride and making their prospects for ever getting rid of him much more difficult.

and look what happened

.

I have a really hard time believing that you baiting a trap the whole time, and, chose to reveal that idea at this completely arbitrary point in the game and not when it would have had more weight.

In terms of what you said at the end of the post, that is entirely untrue considering that fact that many people changed their views on armix throughout the game who you claimed to have caused a "Shitstorm".

And reading further back (and using the mafia scum wikipedia page since i'm nooby) you first voted someone and FOS'd someone which the wikipedia page describes as a day 1 scum tell.

Vote: roflcopter

[qwints]

I think it's to time put some pressure on roflcopter.

Unvote. Vote:roflcopter

[Caboose]

rofl, that dichotomy is stupid. It is very possible that town might have attacked the role claim b/c they wanted to make sure that armlx didn't get a free ride as scum or that scum might have defended a townie armlx to demonstrate correct support for a townie.

DING DING DING DING DING.

We have a winner.

[armlx]

Personally I don't see the meaning of arguing over if he is a PGO or not. Its a good tactic either way, because If he is hes helping the town leting us know before hand, but if hes lying he could still be a vanilla townie trying to make sure mafia doesn't go after him at night.

FOS Dynamo

for assuming that I'm townie if I'm lying.

...and I can say that you're trying to make your scumbuddy armlx unlynchable. It does work the other way around, like matt_s said. And also, look back at my posts. I did NOT defend lowell, guy0, matt_s, or falcone. Stop fabricating stuff about me.

Except the defense is generally true. He's not fabricating anything here. You saying that he is doing that is the misrep here.

I absolutely HATE that first sentence. You label me and four other people as scum on weak evidence like that?

Your only counter here is his evidence is weak. And he's saying you are all very scummy, not necessarily all scum, misrep.

So you expected for me to roll over and take that vote from you without any reasoning?!

I felt his reasoning was pretty obvious if you were reading.

qwints, the absolute dichotomy is not 100% true. But those who fall into the groups rofl mentioned are scummy.

[Caboose]

...and I can say that you're trying to make your scumbuddy armlx unlynchable. It does work the other way around, like matt_s said. And also, look back at my posts. I did NOT defend lowell, guy0, matt_s, or falcone. Stop fabricating stuff about me.

Except the defense is generally true. He's not fabricating anything here. You saying that he is doing that is the misrep here.

I want you to

bold

the part where I defended anybody. You're the only person misrepresenting anything here.

I absolutely HATE that first sentence. You label me and four other people as scum on weak evidence like that?

Your only counter here is his evidence is weak. And he's saying you are all very scummy, not necessarily all scum, misrep.

without a doubt

, most or even all of the scum group lies within (lowell, guy0, caboose, matt_s, falcone).

Did you read the sentence? Evidently not. Again,

you

are misrepresenting.

So you expected for me to roll over and take that vote from you without any reasoning?!

I felt his reasoning was pretty obvious if you were reading.

vote: caboose

fos: falcone

armlx lives til endgame bc we won't lynch him and scum won't nk him without losing one of their own which is not a good trade for them

lindisfarne is probably town

I want you to

bold

where the reason for his vote is in the above post.

qwints, the absolute dichotomy is not 100% true. But those who fall into the groups rofl mentioned are scummy.

Stop trying to save your scumbuddy.

[armlx]

I want you to bold the part where I defended anybody. You're the only person misrepresenting anything here.

I want you to bold the part he said you specifically defended one of those people.

I want you to bold where the reason for his vote is in the above post.

Is anyone else besides me getting some bad vibes from this roleclaim?

Compare to

armlx lives til endgame bc we won't lynch him and scum won't nk him without losing one of their own which is not a good trade for them

Implying he thinks my claim is not scummy.

[Caboose]

I want you to bold the part he said you specifically defended one of those people.

without a doubt, most or even all of the scum group lies within (lowell, guy0, caboose, matt_s, falcone).

observe in the last few pages as they stumble all over each other to try to make sure armlx can be lynched in the future (since they can´t nightkill him) and defend each other.

especially guy0, who keeps getting defended without a real defense being mounted. case in point, lowell saying simply that he is ´textbook noob town.´ that attacks against me for failing to immediately provide reasons for my vote/fos are also following a pattern - they're coming from the same people.

That good enough for you?

Implying he thinks my claim is not scummy.

And the point is...

Is anyone else besides me getting some bad vibes from this roleclaim?

Maybe I'll say it a little more bluntly then.

I think your claim is BS.

[armlx]

And the point is...

Your attack of an action he views as a town tell = scummy....

That good enough for you?

No. Especially given the automatic OMGUS (chainsaw defense) of most of you.

I think your claim is BS.

Why? Do you have reasons?

[qwints]

Armlx, who specifically is using an OMGUS defense?

[kerrigwen]

I want someone to make me as savvy at quoting-and-bolding as you all seem to be.

This not being a bandwagon... I do think that rofl is the most contrary person here so far. Like guy, I find it difficult to believe that his earlier posts were all just 'bait'. I still don't see anyone really attacking the role claim, just questioning it like we should do.

Am keeping in mind that some players haven't even yet posted; for the time being though -

Vote: roflcopter

.

[Caboose]

Your attack of an action he views as a town tell = scummy....

Since when?

No. Especially given the automatic OMGUS (chainsaw defense) of most of you.

Put yourself in my position. You're labeled as scum through the use of crap logic. How would you react?

I think your claim is BS.

Why? Do you have reasons?

Reasons:

1. Your claim is really self serving. It discourages the cop/vig/whatever else from investigating or killing you.

2. rofl is labelling anyone who doesn't buy your claim as scum.

The bolded reason is the main one.

[roflcopter]

this wagon on me is wonderfully opportunistic. if i get lynched i'm glad scum can't nk armlx so he'll still be here to point out again who the scum are that are driving it.

[armlx]

Armlx, who specifically is using an OMGUS defense?

Caboose for one, Matt_S.

Put yourself in my position. You're labeled as scum through the use of crap logic. How would you react?

Show why your logic isn't crap.

Since when?

Since when is attacking something that isn't a scum tell scummy? I dunno, always?

And Caboose, you said my claim was BS before rofl said that. So just the first one was what you were going off then? Do you also assume those who claim cop or doc have self serving claims as they draw protection and can't be auto confirmed?