Meadow of Sorrow Mafia - Game Over! Town Wins

[Skruffs]

Bb, on that note, and considering a mislynch might end the game, I think you should claim. IF you are town, you really have nothing to lose, honest.

[dahen]

I don't think that we are at LyLo, but let's assume the worst. Only satanics has killed lately, so obviously we have have one satanic left. The worst is that we have two satanics left, but we theoretically could have one satanic and one criminal left. Criminals have had different abilities and not all have seem to be killers. Of course we could have any amount of non-killer criminals left, but given the number of killed criminals so I think even one is unlikely.

My point is, as Skruffs seems to think, that we shouldn't rush into anything. TS's vote is bad enough. Please unvote. Preview Edit: Ok, already done. Thanks.

Skruffs - Why do you ask me for details?
1. Becuase you are curious and don't care what information scum will get
2. Because you are not sure whether to believe I'm town and want this to confirm my towniness.
3. Becuase you think that my answer will help you determine who is scum in a way you don't think I can do myself?
4. Because you are scum and want to know if it's worth killing me.

Regarding BB's refusal to claim, I'm not sure where I stand. Claims have a tendency to govern all the following discussion, and I really think we should take a look at things like voting patterns throughout the game.

[Skruffs]

No, and I'm surprised you are asking me so suspiciously.
Trying to figure out what bigAl did last night.

[al_kohaulec]

The Official Vote Count!

People who were aren't awake yet. – 5 – Blackberry, SpectrumVoid, Skruffs, dahen, Toaster Strudel

[spectrumvoid]

I'd too would like BB to claim. I'll go look at voting records, back in a sec.

[spectrumvoid]

Here they are in order:
Olio - 8 - Thestatusquo, Zindaras, Klebian, Thok, Fritzler, HurriKaty, Save the Dragons, Bogre

creampuffeater - 7 - Klebian, Fritzler, SpectrumVoid, BB, Zindaras, bigAl, Thesp

Zindaras - 3 - Klebian, Skruffs, Thesp

Fritzler - 4 – SpectrumVoid, Skruffs, bigAl, dahen

Just wondering: Is it possible that Satanics aren't another scum group but some kind of other role? It's statistically pretty unlikely that only one was killed despite this game having multiple killing roles?

[Skruffs]

Well, we've lost two. Bogre was one, Shadowlurker was another.
But there was ... 4 criminals? TSQ, Thesp, Fritz, bigAl.

Well I have my opinions, but I'm generally ignorant - what's on your mind SV?

I have been looking at various people's votes. Unfortunately (kinda) the only two satanics to die enver said much. One died before speaking at all, the other only really talked to people who are now dead.

I looked through Zindaras, who was a psychic, thinking maybe he could detect satanic alignment changes or whatnot. He basically talked to everyone but his main goal was getting fritzler lynched.

I guess it might take a reread of the whole game to figure out who pushed hardest for all lynches, since we've never lynched a satnic

[dahen]

SV: Thanks for the voting records. I'll look at all votes, not just lynching votes when I get a little more time.

And to your question:

In this game, the term "Satanic" will be defined as a fancy way of saying "Mafia Band Worshipping Or Possibly From Hell Itself." There was some minor confusion before and I neglected to clear that up before.

[dahen]

BB: You are quiet today.

I'm confident scum is either Skruffs or TS, I need to reread the stuff though and look at how they intereacted with other players.

How's it going with your re-read?

[Toaster Strudel]

BB: You are quiet today.

I'm confident scum is either Skruffs or TS, I need to reread the stuff though and look at how they intereacted with other players.

How's it going with your re-read?

Yeah... since BB is probably scum, he doesn't actually need to re-read... he can continue to make things up like he's been doing the whole game.

[Skruffs]

I dunno, while BB has been acting weirdly the entire gamge, he has the chance to defend himself, and should be. Even if you are not going to claim, you should say something other than who you think is scum, because at this point you've said you thought that everyone in the game is paired with everyone else. Share wi wth us your thoughts.

[Skruffs]

Hmmm.
BB, if you are town, which nobody really thinks right now (excpet scum if you ARE town), you need to defend yourself, or talk, or something. It's the only chance you are going to get. I'm going to wait until Thursday afternoon (my time) and then I'm going to vote you. If there's two satanics left, and dahen isn't one, and I'm not one, than it has to be two of toaster strudel, black berry, and spectrum void.
..
Toaster berry, Black void, spectrum strudel. That's kinda neat.
..
Anyways , yeah, so, what I said earlier.

[spectrumvoid]

Oh. I forgot that Bogre was also a satanic. Ignore whatever I said. I was thinking more odds-wise (Yes, I know mafia isn't just odds.) And thanks for the clarification.

I'm pretty sure BB is a hiding Satanic.

[Blackberry]

I don't know what to say. Either TS or Skruffs or both are scum. I'm not going to claim. I still can't tell which of the two is scum.

Tell me what you want me to defend against and I'll try to defend myself. I'm a pro-town player. I have an odd play style, I will admit that. I DON'T believe in Lynch All Liars and I don't like people claiming because that's not the REAL spirit of the game, the game is about suspiscion and reading people, NOT who is the best bullshitter or whose claim sounds believable and whose doesn't.

[Skruffs]

But SV is cleared because you believe her claim.
You were pretty sure that bigAl's claim was completely false. This was a large reason why you were suspicious of him.
You believed Dahen's claim. You are not suspicious of Dahen. You were, yesterday though.
You thought Fritzler's name-claiming was odd.

Even in your notes, you refer to people's claims - and other people's reactions to claims - a good deal.

So it's not fair to use everyone else's claims for your own personal opinion-forming, but refuse to share your own. That's not how this game was worked, up until now.

I'm not scum. Your biggest suspicion of me is that I am scum trying to act pro town. You said taht you don't trust anyone in this game, and now you are sure it's either me or TS.

I'm asking for your opinion about TS. If you actually have something, it's worth talking about with everyone in the town. Maybe you have something, and maybe you don't. You were right abuot bigAl, when I wasn't suspicious of him at all.

[Skruffs]

It's just that what you jsut said seems so at odds for your reasoning for everything you'ove done in the game. >.>

[Blackberry]

But SV is cleared because you believe her claim.
You were pretty sure that bigAl's claim was completely false. This was a large reason why you were suspicious of him.
You believed Dahen's claim. You are not suspicious of Dahen. You were, yesterday though.
You thought Fritzler's name-claiming was odd.

Even in your notes, you refer to people's claims - and other people's reactions to claims - a good deal.

So it's not fair to use everyone else's claims for your own personal opinion-forming, but refuse to share your own. That's not how this game was worked, up until now.

I'm not scum. Your biggest suspicion of me is that I am scum trying to act pro town. You said taht you don't trust anyone in this game, and now you are sure it's either me or TS.

I'm asking for your opinion about TS. If you actually have something, it's worth talking about with everyone in the town. Maybe you have something, and maybe you don't. You were right abuot bigAl, when I wasn't suspicious of him at all.

That's exactly why I don't like claims. They make the game too easy and instead of the game being about logic it becomes "who can be the best bullshitter." I don't have anything (i assume you mean fact-based such as a night choice). TS unvoting me surprises me to be honest. I personally don't think it makes alot of sense. If anything Skruffs, I'm most suspiscious of you because you took the whole "ok let's wait for Blackberry" approach to make yourself seem less scummy. Then again maybe TS unvoted because he didn't want to seem like scum. I honsetly can't decide which one of you is more scummier.

THE FACT that you asked if I knew anything makes me

Nvm, I misread your post, I assume now you mean game-wise like I had against bigAl, in that case, I'm not sure what I have on TS. I really should go back and reread. As should everyone else.

[Toaster Strudel]

Again throwing accusations in every direction hoping one of them sticks.

You're right, that IS an odd playstyle... for an alleged townie!

[Blackberry]

One of you is scum, that is pretty much a fact TS.

[Skruffs]

I'm sorry that being wary about possibly mislynching makes me scummy.
Take a few breats and relax, and take a fresh looka t the game, and say what you see.
You're strikign me as a hyperdefensive townie. But you also breadcrumbed role blocker.

[dahen]

BB: I am pro-town and I care about winning within the rules setup by the mod. I want to figure out whether you are scum or not. A claim will help.

Answer right now: Are you Vanilla, Role Blocker or something else?

[Blackberry]

A: I never breadcrumb.

B: I still refuse to claim.

C: At the moment, TS is striking me as the most scummy. He continues to attack me while Skruffs takes a look back and considers all points of views. Town-players would be/should be willing to consider everything while all TS does is continue and continue to bash me as scum. Hell, I'm 95% convinced TS is scum. That or Skruffs is doing a good job. So right now I'm positive on TS.

D: Looking back, something strikes me as odd for SpectrumVoid. He claimed that players had "changed alignments" (all Satanics) yet later he says "is it possible Satanics aren't scum"... If SV's powers were real and he knew they were changed wouldn't you KNOW they weren't scum because you "knew" they were changed? .... (im refering to post 1005)...

E: I'm starting to lean toward some sort of SV/TS scum (together or seperate)? Both seem to want to go for the easy lynch (me)... apparently I'm an easy lynch in every game I'm in and I always given the same crap that I never back my accusations up or something and I say f*$@ you... lol.

[dahen]

Why do you keep referring to SV and TS as "he"? It isn't that hard to read the gender sign.

I agree that TS has been acting scummy. I've compared her play to other games. Normally it seems like she contributes, but in this game she hasn't contributed at all (with my interpretation). Quite the opposite with votes on claimed cops and dead guys and lack of interest when lacking vote.

I am actually leaning towards a TS lynch today and a BB lynch tomorrow, since I don't think BB+Skruffs is scum, I don't think BB+TS is scum and from the latest post (which seems genuine) I don't think it's BB+SV either.

So if BB is scum, I think he is alone. And as I said earlier, it's more important to lynch someone that might be in a scum pairing. I can see both TS+Skruffs and TS+SV as possible.

Comments?

[dahen]

From a quick-lynch point of view, SV+Skruffs as scum could have won after TS's vote on BB. This means that all possible scum pairs involve TS, at least the way I see it.

[Toaster Strudel]

My lack of interest as you know had much to do with my vote being stolen twice in row! But I have contributed plenty. And if you "metagame" me by looking at my behavior in other games you'll see that this one is no different from the rest. Go check this one: http://mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=4834&start=0 where I've just been lynched as a Townie. I was lynched for trying to get people to lynch a scumbag, but it backfired.

From where I am sitting, the scumpair is now quite clearly dahen and BB. BB, for his continued absurd accusations of everybody. That's purposely trying to confuse the town. His refusal to claim is highly suspect as well. Never in all my time playing mafia have I come across anyone so stubborn in refusing to claim.

Dahen has now become a top suspect as well, from his sudden acceptance of BB's refusal to claim. Dahen doesn't even mention BB's refusal in in last two posts.

Of course dahen would prefer to lynch BB

tomorrow

. Right. But get this: dahen wrote

So if BB is scum, I think he is alone.

Then why lynch me today, and BB tomorrow? That makes no sense whatsoever, does it? It's WIFOM at its best: we shouldn't lynch the "lone scum" we should lynch the hypothetical scumpair of myself and another townie? It's also distancing himself from BB.

Rather than berating BB for refusing to claim, dahen describes BB's latest post as "genuine" and makes a complete turnaround and is now going after other players who I think are very townie, like Skruffs and SV, and of course myself, who I know is town.

I still want to lynch BB today, and we can take care of dahen tomorrow.

vote: Blackberry

It was claim or die, and you choose "die."