Mafia 35: Peacecity I (NYMM) - Game over!

[Mastermind of Sin]

Ok, I know this looks really bad, but some of my results were mistaken before. When I went to report my results, i couldn't find the pms, so i recreated it by memory. Since then, I've had the mod resend the list of results, so here are a few corrections

Seol was a detective, not a cop
Iammars was a defense attorney, not mafia.

I guess i got so caught up in thinking Iammars was scum based on his actions that I forgot that the results said differently.

sorry, just wanted to clarify that for y'all.

Seriously, though, if you look back, a lot of my actions that weren't quite standard might make a little more sense if you take into consideration that I had coroner results and a safe backup system against dying. That's why i didn't reveal before. I knew there was a coroner out there that might reveal, but I also knew that I would get a chance to reveal my results before actually dying. However, I don't know if there is another coroner, so lynching me now could put the town in a very dangerous situation tomorrow. we've only lost one scum, so we need to be a little more careful with our lynches than you've been. You all, (especially Baby Jesus) keep talking about me being confirmed scum, when no one ever presented any real cohesive argument for me being scum, except for what I said AFTER I was almost at a lynch. If you look at it my way, though, everything I said is perfectly explained, whereas BJ is having to twist my words to make it seem like I'm fabricating things and going back on my own words. Also, I'd like to know why BJ is confirmed innocent. As far as I remember, all he's done is daykill someone, an ability that scum has just as often as town, if not MORE often. He didn't kill scum, so he could easily just have selected someone at random to kill, as long as they weren't scum with him. Thinking of him as scum has made his actions make a lot more sense to me when i think about it, but if there is actual evidence for him being confirmed innocent, I'm certainly willing to accept it. I just think that we're being led around on a halter by the scum, and it's just going to get worse if you lynch me and abandon finding out the roles of everyone that died last night.

[mepmuff]

I say we let him live at least for now. For two reasons: If scum kills him we know to take his list as truth, if they don't we get some more results from him tomorrow and can discuss his credibility once more.

One more question though: You had a role and were back-up coroner? Care to explain your other role? Oh, thats two questions. You don't mind answering two, do you? Argh... another one....

[Quailman]

unvote: MoS

I'll wait to see how this develops... Right now, I'm thinking BJ, though.

[BabyJesus]

unvote: MoS

I'll wait to see how this develops... Right now, I'm thinking BJ, though.

you think the mayor role is bad?? right.... Pls go reread how nanook died and get back to me. Thanks. It backs up my claim. Plus you think scum got TWO day kills? Right.

Anyway....I guess I can buy that MoS is the assistant coroner...but I DON'T buy that that role has ANYTHING to do with him surviving the lynch.

If I had to guess, I would say that he has a scum role, and luckily got recruited to be a coroner BY the real coroner. But that is just a hunch.

[BabyJesus]

Also, I'd like to know why BJ is confirmed innocent. As far as I remember, all he's done is daykill someone, an ability that scum has just as often as town, if not MORE often. He didn't kill scum, so he could easily just have selected someone at random to kill, as long as they weren't scum with him. Thinking of him as scum has made his actions make a lot more sense to me when i think about it, but if there is actual evidence for him being confirmed innocent, I'm certainly willing to accept it.

I explained this already. My role is Mayor. I am not confirmed, this is true. However, read how Nanook dies vs how our outed cop died. Nanook was lead away to an ordered execution. That was my role as Mayor. Plus the vote-manipulation ability, which I had already proven as well.

I agree that a day kill can be just as easily scum as not. I also doubt scum got TWO day kills. So which do you think was scum? The guy that killed in the open day one for shits and giggles, or the guy that stayed hidden and killed the outed cop?

Also...aren't there two nights missing from your report? What about the people that died last night?

[Myopia]

I cant believe some of you guys are buying this crap from Mos.

Frankly i believe BJ (hm cant believe im saying that). The method of the execution was entirely consistent with a town role rather than an "assassin type" and the vote manipulation is consistent as well.

From Mos we have a claim of partial coroner/investigator (well he made some stuff up about two people), a power that knows when the coroner dies and wow just because, a single lynch immunity. This makes sense how?

If its true why did Mos act the way he did yesterday? He claimed "I know when the coroner dies" and then kept his mouth shut til he was lynched. This helped the town how? Why didnt he at least say "oh guys im pro-town but if you lynch me ill just come back tommorow"?

Why does he have some coroner results and not others? Seol and Iammers were early kills where are the rest? Why not claim investigator before now?

For mine its blatantly obvious that Mos is scum who was trying to confirm whether the coroner was indeed dead before he was lynched. He may or may not have known that he would come back to life. Now he just throwing a whole bunch of crap in the air and seeing what happens.

Or does anyone really think (as Mos argues) that there is still a coroner role in the game that hasnt bothered to come out yet?

Same thing applies as yesterday. If a coroner comes out and clears him then Ill think twice. Until then he is scum, scum, scum.

[BabyJesus]

So, just to be clear, we're not going to find out if the people who died were scum or not? I didn't see it in the first post or in the death discriptions, or did I miss something?

I would bet big money there is a "coroner" role this game...someone who gets PM'd the roles of the dead.

Maybe even a role that can MAKE coroners.

Sadly I was not made a coroner....

Let me bump this old post of mine.....A coroner role, as well as the ability to MAKE a coroner is a common FBG role. HOWEVER....anyone can be made a coroner. It has ZERO bearing on whether or not you are scum, roleplayer, townie, whatever. typically the coroner just submits a name blind. And being made coroner NEVER gives a one-time lynch immunity. Thats got to be part of MoS's original role. WHICH, unless I missed it, he is hiding from us.

And yes, I have seen needing to be lynched twice as a BG role frequently in FBG games, usually a "godfather" type.

[BabyJesus]

here is what i'm thinking bj...

mepmuff was late to the iammars bandwagon...

then, he unvoted immediately following the role claim...

and then, waited till it was inevitable that iammars was going down before getting back on...

IF IAMMARS WAS A BAD GUY, mepmuff doesn't look very good...

is there a coroner in the house?

then...

I agree with the analysis of mepmuff's play. Since I felt strongly that Iammars was a BG, it makes sense to

vote: mepmuff

at this point.

Amazing what happens when you research old incriminating posts.... Here we have Zippy doing analysis saying IF Iammers was a BG, then Mepmuff looks bad. Zippy then asks if a coroner is around, ideally hoping for confirmation on his theory.

What do we have then? Mastermind of s

P

in AGREES with zippy's analysis, and votes mepmuff. Thats all well and good....but wait? Now MoS is claiming he KNEW Iammers was GOOD at the time? Yet he hops on a flawwed bandwagon agreeing with the analysis presented, where only HE knows it is flawwed, since supposedly only HE knew Iammers was good....

I'm keeping my vote on Mastermind of s

P

in.

[BabyJesus]

Also, rereading the old posts, I believe Mos really

WAS

made into a coroner. I just happen to believe his original role was that of SCUM.

Add to all the other evidence.... needing to be lynched twice usually being a BG role at FBG...it IS interesting after seeing all these innocent deaths, he only bothers to come out with his info to save his own neck. No interest previously in using his info to help the town.

[Shart]

Vote MoS

Obviously he's BG who was made coroner. So his coroner information is worthless.

[Mastermind of Sin]

...first of all, I told you guys several days ago that a coroner doesn't get results for the pervious night UNTIL the end of the NEXT night. That's why I don't have results from last night. Then, I was roleblocked the night the coroner died, so I don't have those results either. BJ, would you like to stop twisting my posts to make them say what you want them to say? You aren't even listening to me.

Anyway....I guess I can buy that MoS is the assistant coroner...but I DON'T buy that that role has ANYTHING to do with him surviving the lynch.

I already told you that me surviving the lynch was NOT related to me being a coroner. I'm a fricking Escape Artist.

Add to all the other evidence.... needing to be lynched twice usually being a BG role at FBG...it IS interesting after seeing all these innocent deaths, he only bothers to come out with his info to save his own neck. No interest previously in using his info to help the town.

I already made my argument for holding back the info when you first asked the coroner to come out. I had no intention of revealing my status to anyone, and the real coroner could still have come out. You KNOW he was protown, but he didn't say anything either, did he? As for there being so many innocent deaths, I didn't realize it was that bad until I put all my results together in one place. Considering that I missed the night 3 results due to a roleblock on night 4, we're still missing a few people that could've been scum.

Amazing what happens when you research old incriminating posts.... Here we have Zippy doing analysis saying IF Iammers was a BG, then Mepmuff looks bad. Zippy then asks if a coroner is around, ideally hoping for confirmation on his theory.

What do we have then? Mastermind of sPin AGREES with zippy's analysis, and votes mepmuff. Thats all well and good....but wait? Now MoS is claiming he KNEW Iammers was GOOD at the time? Yet he hops on a flawwed bandwagon agreeing with the analysis presented, where only HE knows it is flawwed, since supposedly only HE knew Iammers was good....

Hello...Zippy WAS the coroner!!!! He was obviously either waiting for me to come out as coroner, or for someone to fake a claim so he could counter it. However, I didn't know he was the real coroner at that time, so I didn't take the oppurtunity.

Like I ALREADY told you, I didn't realize that Iammars was good until the mod just sent me the results yesterday. For some reason, I'm missing all of my result pms except for the most recent one, so I didn't know he was good. I was acting under the misdirected belief that I had gotten Iammars as bad, but I never thought to go back and double check my results to make sure. That's simply player error, and there's nothing I could do about it.

Let me bump this old post of mine.....A coroner role, as well as the ability to MAKE a coroner is a common FBG role. HOWEVER....anyone can be made a coroner. It has ZERO bearing on whether or not you are scum, roleplayer, townie, whatever. typically the coroner just submits a name blind. And being made coroner NEVER gives a one-time lynch immunity. Thats got to be part of MoS's original role. WHICH, unless I missed it, he is hiding from us.

And yes, I have seen needing to be lynched twice as a BG role frequently in FBG games, usually a "godfather" type.

What is wrong with you, BJ? This is the second time you've acted like I said the extra life was part of the coroner role, when I clearly said that it was part of my original role. You're either going out of your way to twist my words, or for some reason my previous posts aren't showing up for you. Care to explain? You can only go so far in terms of bad play before I stop believing you're just a bad player and start thinking that you might be powerful scum. Both daykill and voted manipulation could be a scum role, easily. Especially since the mayor role commonly consists of a double vote, not either of the abilities you've claimed so far. I can easily see you being scum, and with the way you've been purposefully misleading the town and ignoring my posts, I'm nearly ready to vote you no matter how confirmed you think you might be.

One more question though: You had a role and were back-up coroner? Care to explain your other role? Oh, thats two questions. You don't mind answering two, do you? Argh... another one....

yes; yes, look further up this post; yes

Vote MoS

Obviously he's BG who was made coroner. So his coroner information is worthless.

MAJOR FOS: Shart

You don't even wait for me to defend myself before making blanket statements about how I'm obviously this or obviously that. You just listen to BJ twisting my words and take it at face value. That's major scum play if I've ever seen it. In fact, screw FOSing.

VOTE: SHART

[BabyJesus]

I like how MOS is scrambling to put pressure back on those whose stories actually hold water. You think I'm lying about being the mayor? Go find a hole in my story. Not gonna happen. Early on, I told you all that MAYOR was a role from FBG, did I not? Hmm. The early day kill you keep harping on? GO READ THE WRITEUP. It was NOT done by a BAD GUY/MAFIA. YOU however, are fishy as hell. You have not acted in the best interest of the town. You claim zippy made you coroner, yet when zippy repeatedly asked for a coroner to come out, you only did so as a last ditch save your own ass effort. You jump on flawwed bandwagons, supposedly based on "forgetting" you pm's.

MOST IMPORTANT - your "role" is one that traditionally is a BAD GUY role at fbg. Case is point, we just did a godfather theme game at fbg, and their was the role of Sonny Corleone, who had to be lynched twice to die.

I'm convinced you are as dirty as a two dollar whore.

vote count would be nice as well.

[Mastermind of Sin]

why the fuck aren't you listening to what I say, if you claim to be protown? You are deliberately ignoring things I say and only focusing on those things where I might be slightly mistaken. Am I to presume that you are conceding the rest of my points? If that's the case, then you haven't got much of an argument left to stand on, BJ. As for my role, it's not traditionally bad. Being lynched twice to die isn't my only ability, and you'd know that if you had listen to me claim my role. I'm a fricking escape artist, and if you were as familiar with the roles as you said you were, you'd know what that entails. Obviously I'm not going to reveal that second ability just yet, because that makes it completely and utterly useless. However, I can almost 100% guarantee that it will become readily apparent within the next day or two.

I'm not really trying to put pressure on your story. I am simply pointing out that I've come across the mayor role before, and it wasn't like that. Hell, I've even been a mayor, in two different games, and only one of them had a daykill, and neither of them had vote manipulation. My only point is that if it weren't for the fact that your story is believable, I'd being trying to lynch you right now, because you are acting like scum. In fact, I think that this is probably the worst scum vibe I've ever had on anyone without any hard evidence to go with it, and I've been playing for quite a while. In addition, you make no effort to address my concerns towards your(and others') behavior in this game, but have been completely ignoring entire passages of my posts. That's not a very protown action there, BJ. If you truly are protown, which I think you are, then maybe you should start acting like it and consider everything, not just the selective bits and pieces you want to see.

You keep saying that it's scummy that I didn't come out when Zippy asked for a coroner to claim. What incentive did I have to make that claim? I did not know who had made me a coroner, so as far as I knew, Zippy was scum trying to draw me out! Since I didn't agree with everyone's reasons for wanting a coroner claim, as I said in thread, I didn't want to jeopardize my position at an inappropriate time. Now I know that you've never made it a practice to keep your role secret, but that IS actually a valid tactic for staying alive, and that's something I planned to do in the best interests of the town.

You're right on one thing. I did only reveal as coroner as a last ditch effort. However, that had been my plan all along, so I don't have a problem with doing that. The funny thing is, you didn't even have a decent case against me UNTIL I started claiming. It wasn't until then that you were really able to twist my words around to mean something other than what was intended in order to get me lynched.

Now, I'm sure BJ is going to be stubborn about this and not consider the whole situation, but I urge you to give me at least one more day to reveal results. With this many deaths a night, I can be very useful to you. When I finally die, you will see that I was protown and be able to trust my results fully(assuming there aren't any more coroners out there to stop further deaths from being public). However, it may be too late by then, so if you can't learn to trust them now, you may have just lost the game. By leaving me alive today, you put the mafia in a bind. They either try to kill me tonight to stop my results, or they leave me alive, hoping to get me lynched, but still letting the results through.

[mepmuff]

I now feel more strongly that we should MoS live. We have multiple night killers, so good guy or bad, his chances to survive the night are pretty limited. His results may be near useless if he's a bad guy, but not completely useless. Letting the bad guys decide wether he should live is the best estimation we can get on MoS's level of innocence barring any more coroners coming out of the woodwork.

[BabyJesus]

Being lynched twice to die isn't my only ability, and you'd know that if you had listen to me claim my role. I'm a fricking escape artist, and if you were as familiar with the roles as you said you were, you'd know what that entails. Obviously I'm not going to reveal that second ability just yet, because that makes it completely and utterly useless. However, I can almost 100% guarantee that it will become readily apparent within the next day or two.

FWIW, you say you are getting scummy vibes here...I'm getting just as scummy sense from you. I mean, come on...now you have yet another ability? The only thing that might make me believe you....is that I got multiple powers as mayor (one time day kill, one time role blocking, and vote manipulation). And Guppy obviously made up and blended attributes of mafiascum AND fbg roles, so I suppose I can give you a little leeway if your role seems scummy to me. We just had a BG role at FBG that fits your actions to a T, so excuse me for being suspicious.

I already said I DO believe you were made coroner, I just question your actions and motives.....

For now I will

unvote

though, because if you ARE pro-town, a MoS/BabyJ feud does nothing except give scum a convienient excuse to lay low....

OK, so you say Seol was a detective.....have we looked at his posts at all? Also saying Pooky was the only mafia we hit....lets look and see who he was pushing/defending...

[BabyJesus]

[OK, so you say Seol was a detective.....have we looked at his posts at all? ...

well, that was quick research, he died N1.....nothing to see here

[massive]

You know, I gotta tell you, with four killing parties still on the loose and only one Mafia dead, I'm not going to believe ANYTHING anyone tells me. I've decided I have about a 75% chance of lynching a killer no matter who I vote for. MoS, the "Escape Artist", sounds to me like a Mafia role despite what he's saying -- and we have proof that the Mafia are seemingly getting named roles thanks to Pooky.

The problem is, if we do lynch MoS and he is scum, it doesn't actually lower the number of killers we have. There's no way there are only two Mafia in the game.

Would like to hear from Leonidas and Quailman.

[Mastermind of Sin]

we may have killed more mafia. remember, I'm missing the night 3/ day 3(?) results due to a roleblock, and I haven't gotten last night's yet.

[Myopia]

I dont think mos' latest version gels with his play yesterday. At all. He practically invited a lynch with his "i know when the coroner dies version". No comment that we were wasting our lynch because he would come back.

Why? Because it gave the scum another night to kill thats why.

Cut the aggresive crap Mos. Youve brought all this on yourself. If you are town your play yesterday was abysmal.

What I would like at this point is an explanation as to his comments that once he dies roles will be revealed on death. Where do you get this from?

[Vesuvan]

Hnag on a sec...

MOS is claiming that he knows when the coroner dies, but wasn't dead himself yesterday. He then claims that Zippy was the coroner when Zippy's posts do not fit with that theory (perhaps something to do with the round of "well I'm not a coroner" posts yesterday when he claimed the coroner was still alive). He then gets Iammars' role wrong when Zippy was ready to lynch Mepmuff on the basis of Iammars being scum (and would have seen him lynched had I not pointed out that Iammars' witch ability would have been blocked on night 1)...

These are just the biggest holes in this claim.

Lynch all Liars may be a metagame ploy that gets over-used by scum to get a townie who slipped up lynched, but man you're making Pinocchio look like Ghandi.

Vote: Mastermind of Sin

[Myopia]

Agh read all of mos's posts to look at the evidence that we have.

I just dont understand his play either way but am less convinced now that he must be scum.

My (highly abreviated analysis)

- first 25 posts or so - not a great deal of content (this is pretty relative though) - fairly scummy

- somewhere in there was a "i cant be lynched or night killed" joke claim - not sure what to make of this, mos prepping a later claim possibly but why not refer to it now?

- fight with vesuvan - mos being mos - cant tell one way or the other

- iammars dies - mos posts immediately after that the coroner would have results on iammers and that he was scum - scummy unless a mistake, pretty bad mistake to make though

- yesterdays play - mos lets himself be lynched without advising that he wont die - scummy

- but then theres this which makes me think that his play is more consistent than I allowed

let's put it this way. I don't know who the coroner is, but I have a way to find out if he/she dies. I believe the coroner knows who I am, though. Perhaps that's why the coroner hasn't come out. If they trusted me, they would've seen that I counseled against the coroner coming out and followed my advice? I don't know.

- this does kind of jive with what he says now - he can find out if the coroner dies (because he gets the reports himself) and the coroner must know who he is because the coroner appointed him;

- one problem is why didnt he allow for the fact that the coroner might have died during the night he was blocked? he hasnt said this but i can only assume it means that he was told that he would be informed by the mod if the coroner died

- lastly the main role appointing the deputy and the deputy assuming the main role if the main role dies seems to be fairly common in fbg games (and is quite similar to thesp and his unnamed deputy presuming they are still alive although maybe thats where he got the idea from);

- this leaves the following questions for mos:

1. when were you appointed assistant coroner;

2. do you get results a day late as youve implied;

3. have you received anything from the mod saying that youve been promoted or that the coroner died (i can only presume that the fact of promotion would be notified to you) when zippy died;

4. why do you think that if you die all further results will be revealed;

5. can you give us a full claim of your original "unkillable role" please.

- I guess im prepared to accept that mos isnt just making up the fact that he is the assistant coroner (which I thought before) but im just not sure whether hes equally likely to be scum or town.

[Mastermind of Sin]

What I would like at this point is an explanation as to his comments that once he dies roles will be revealed on death. Where do you get this from?

from past experience with coroners, the mod started revealing roles publically once the coroner(s) was(were) dead. This may not be the case in this game, but it was a mechanism I'd seen in the past, so I found it possible.

MOS is claiming that he knows when the coroner dies, but wasn't dead himself yesterday. He then claims that Zippy was the coroner when Zippy's posts do not fit with that theory (perhaps something to do with the round of "well I'm not a coroner" posts yesterday when he claimed the coroner was still alive). He then gets Iammars' role wrong when Zippy was ready to lynch Mepmuff on the basis of Iammars being scum (and would have seen him lynched had I not pointed out that Iammars' witch ability would have been blocked on night 1)...

These are just the biggest holes in this claim.

Lynch all Liars may be a metagame ploy that gets over-used by scum to get a townie who slipped up lynched, but man you're making Pinocchio look like Ghandi.

sigh. need I go through all this again? I know when the coroner dies BECAUSE I am the assistant coroner. I didn't die when you lynched me BECAUSE I am an Escape Artist. As for Zippy being coroner, why would I claim that he was if he wasn't? I certainly didn't think he was the coroner until the mod told me so. If I was lying, wouldn't I have picked someone that was more believeable? And if the coroner isn't dead, couldn't they have just as easily counterclaimed and revealed the true results if I was lying about mine? I freely admit that Iammars was a mistake. I've been a little preoccupied lately. That's why I didn't have time to say much yesterday. I only had a little time to post, so I said what I could. However, it occurred to me that I wouldn't have to put up a full defense yesterday, since if you still didn't believe me, I could get lynched and then claim today.

a metagame ploy that gets over-used by scum to get a townie who slipped up lynched

...looks like you've hit the jackpot, Vesuvan. You fail to realize that I haven't been able to pay full attention to my games for the last couple of months, so I've only had time to make quick, hurried posts. That tends to cause ppl to make mistakes.

I'll answer Myopia's questions when I get time, but I have to leave for school and work right now :/. I hate being this busy .

[Leonidas]

I'm here and (ahem) reading...

Err - well, actually I need to read today's discussion. It seems MoS is putting up quite a fight - definitely worth reading.

[Mastermind of Sin]

answers to myopia's questions:

1. when were you appointed assistant coroner;

the first night

2. do you get results a day late as youve implied;

yes, that's how a coroner works. each night, I examine the bodies of the ppl that died last night and the guy we lynched that day

3. have you received anything from the mod saying that youve been promoted or that the coroner died (i can only presume that the fact of promotion would be notified to you) when zippy died;

when recruited, I was told that I'd get results whether or not the coroner was alive. there was no promotion involved that I know of. I did receive a message from the mod saying the coroner had died, ofc. it was in my coroner's report.

4. why do you think that if you die all further results will be revealed;

I've played games before with coroners, and in the previous games, if there weren't any coroners left, the mod revealed further results publicly. I don't know if that's the case, but it seemed to be so in the past, so I thought I'd mention it as a possibility. I don't know how FBG coroner's work, so maybe nothing will happen.

5. can you give us a full claim of your original "unkillable role" please.

I have 2 passive abilities. One is lynch immunity and the other probably shouldn't be mentioned until it is triggered, because then it's useless.

[Vesuvan]

So you had information on Iammars when we were ready to lynch people based on whether or not Iammars was in fact scum, and you didn't come forward?

Care to explain that?

Or care to explain why you didn't come forward on any of the multitude of other requests for a coroner to come forward? (especially seeing how you supposedly win if the town wins whether or not you are still alive assuming you are in fact a townie)

I'm not seeing a lot in your plays that look like you have any pro-town motivations. Instead I'm seeing a lot of WIFOM logic used in your defense ("I would have chosen someone mroe believable than Zippy if I was lying" = BS argument).

If you can explain why you have played the plan of keeping to the background and not coroner claiming until much later when that information would have allowed us to make informed decisions much earlier in the game, leading to many fewer missed lynches, I'd love to hear it.

Right now your story is like a seive.